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00:00What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Money Goal. Today I have Yasmin with me.
00:04Hi. Hello Yasmin. Welcome back. Hello. Thank you for having me. Alright, what are we talking about today?
00:09Okay, so today we're going to be talking about gaji. Okay. So, in your opinion, do you think we're underpaid here in Malaysia?
00:20A lot of people seem to think so. I agree. Yeah, I think so. Okay, but I think your perception of it really depends on your group of friends, right?
00:28You think so? Just amongst your group of friends? Yeah, okay, so this is an example. My group of friends, a lot of them are on pretty high salaries. So then my perception of things were, Malaysians earn a lot of money. But I know the reality is not the case. So people who are, you know, in a group where everyone's not earning that much, they would think, oh, everyone's underpaid. But I do think that Malaysia has an income problem.
00:51Mm-hmm. I think, like, the biggest, one of the biggest complaints is that your salary doesn't match your effort.
01:00Okay. Yeah? Do you think so? Do you agree? Did you ever feel like that at any point?
01:05Sort of. Sort of. I think I'm a very, I don't know if capitalist is the right word for this, but, I mean, effort doesn't really equate to your pay, right? Or how much value you create, right? Yeah, it's basically about how much value you create, not about how much you work or how hard you work and stuff like that. That's pretty much what I feel about it.
01:26Right. Yeah. And also, I guess it depends on, like, your industry, which is why, like, I'm, it might be a bit controversial, but, like, I feel like it's pretty healthy to share with your co-workers, like, what your gaji is.
01:40Yeah. Did I do the episode with you or was it Aisha? I did say this.
01:43Yeah, we talked about it in, like, a previous episode. Can't remember. But producer knows. Producer knows. And, yeah, I think it's something that's really, really healthy.
01:51Um, because, like, you also, I guess, talk to each other about, like, your work, right? So, you sort of, like, compare and contrast, like, everyone's efforts with, like, what they are, what they're making. Yep. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. I think so. It's only bad for HR. Yeah. Sharing salaries is only bad for HR. Yeah. It's awkward. Yeah. It's really, really awkward. Yeah. But I do think that you should talk about it. At least you know your benchmark, right, for what you're doing.
02:18Especially if you have friends, ex-colleges even, who are doing the same thing with you in different companies, then it's good to know. Even from different industries. Like you said, I think industry plays a huge role. Huge part, yeah.
02:30Yeah. So, if you know a friend who's doing the exact same thing as you and is getting paid more in a different industry, then it's good for you because then you think, okay, how can I get into that industry?
02:38Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I try to be as fair as possible. So, like, obviously, I'm not comparing my salary to, like, my friends who are in consultancy.
02:48That's one way to make me depressed, obviously. But, yeah, considering I am in broadcasting, I compare with, yeah, my peers who are in broadcasting as well.
03:04And I think that's, like, you get, like, an even level playing field that way. Right?
03:10And then you can kind of see, like, okay, this is where I can aspire to. Or, like, okay, these are my colleagues who are, like, around about the same level. Right?
03:17Yep. And things change, right? I mean, I think 10, 15 years ago, all that gas company used to be the biggest in the world. So, they will pay the most. Right? Regardless of whether you're working offshore or whether you're doing marketing, HR, sales even, you will still generally get paid the most.
03:32And then these days, of course, tech companies. I've seen Americans talk about their salaries in companies like Netflix, Google and stuff. And it's crazy. And it's purely just because of industry.
03:41Mm-hmm. Yeah.
03:43Okay. Well, let's talk a little bit about exposure pay.
03:47Okay.
03:48Which is something that we, it may not be termed in that way, but it's something that a lot of people in entertainment or in broadcasting, such as myself, hear a lot.
04:00Okay.
04:00So, the idea is that, okay, you get paid a little low, but your exposure, the contacts that you build, the experiences that you get, sort of, like, make up for that low payment.
04:18Yeah.
04:18Like, what do you think about that?
04:19I think it's bad.
04:20Yeah.
04:20I think people, I've seen, like, people looking for wedding photographers, and then if they are a bit famous on Instagram, like, a thousand followers, they're like, hey, can you take photos from me?
04:30I can't pay, but, you know, I'll post on Instagram and save you today.
04:34I think it's just an excuse not to pay.
04:35Yeah.
04:36All right?
04:36And that's just, like, on a freelance standpoint.
04:39Yeah.
04:39That's freelancing.
04:40Why?
04:40Does it happen in, like, beyond that as well?
04:43I mean, yeah.
04:45Oh.
04:46Yes.
04:47I cannot speak for everybody, but, yeah, it's something that's a lot of people.
04:50It's really common that you hear in this industry in particular.
04:54I'm not sure about other industries.
04:56Actually, maybe most, maybe a lot of corporate jobs, they get a lot of that as well.
05:03Like, you're kind of, like, you sell your soul, but, yeah, you sell your soul, you work crazy hours and put in crazy effort, and in return, you are supposed to be, I guess, yeah.
05:19You're supposed to build your network and all of that.
05:23And that's something, like, you can't, you know, get anywhere else.
05:27All right.
05:27Kodonia, Kodonia is supposed to be, like.
05:29And that's why they pay you less.
05:30Yeah.
05:31Yeah.
05:31I mean, that's one of the justifications that they use.
05:34That it's, like, well, we're making up for the low pay by offering you this and this and this and this and this.
05:41And then you sort of get trapped into this thinking of, okay, I may not be paid a lot, but they're right.
05:52Like, I can't build this network outside of this job.
05:56I, you know, can't get this exposure outside of this job.
06:00Right, right.
06:00Yeah.
06:00So, that's what they do.
06:01So, you're telling them, I can't pay my bills with exposure then.
06:03Yeah.
06:03So, unfortunately, TNB only takes ringgit.
06:06Yes.
06:07But having said that, I do think that, especially when you're just starting out your career, there is a case where you might want to forego a bit of salary for growth.
06:19Right.
06:20So, let's say you get two different offers.
06:21One is higher paying, but not much growth.
06:23And the other one is maybe a bit lower salary, but you see better growth potential there.
06:27You can consider taking the lower salary one.
06:29That's something that I would recommend, actually.
06:31Okay.
06:32When you're just starting out.
06:33Interesting.
06:33If you have enough money to survive in the first place.
06:36But at what point does that become exploitation?
06:38Yeah.
06:39So, that's the thing.
06:39I think this is something that you've got to decide for yourself.
06:41Of course, you cannot take that forever.
06:44Right.
06:44There has to be a point where after a certain level, you will get rewarded for it.
06:48I'll just give you an example.
06:50A career like sales.
06:52Where you're starting out, the base salary is really, really low.
06:54Right.
06:54But you get a commission.
06:56So, the more you learn everything.
06:57If you're joining a company with a low base salary, but they have a lot of really good salespeople.
07:01A lot of really good leaders and structures that you can learn from.
07:04And then that would result in you eventually becoming a good salesperson.
07:07Who then earns a higher commission.
07:09Then that's something that you can justify.
07:10But if it's a flat base pay, then I think the trade-off between salary and growth.
07:15You've got to decide where the buck ends, basically.
07:18Yeah.
07:18Yeah, where the buck stops.
07:19Yeah.
07:21No, I totally agree.
07:23I'm trying not to get personal.
07:26But, yeah.
07:29No, of course.
07:29I think at some point, we've all heard that trade-off.
07:36Like, it's okay.
07:38We'll give you like $1.5K, $2K a month.
07:43But you'll learn a lot here.
07:45And you'll meet a lot of people here.
07:47And you'll be able to experience a lot of things here.
07:50But after you develop your skills and develop yourself, like, you've got to say no to, like, all of that, right?
08:04There will come a point where you're going to be like, actually, I feel like I've learned enough.
08:11And I've been doing this work for a couple of years or whatever.
08:15So, like, something's got to give.
08:18Yeah.
08:18I suppose.
08:19Yeah.
08:21Yeah.
08:22So, how can you grow your career and your income without burnout?
08:26Oh, my God.
08:27This is...
08:28Why did you assign me this one?
08:31Why are we talking about this?
08:32Oh.
08:34I mean, people who have the most experience.
08:36Yeah, very experienced.
08:38It feels like a very personal thing for you.
08:40Yeah.
08:40I mean, and it's not just...
08:43I mean, obviously, I'm not the only person in the world or, you know, working in this particular career path that feels that way.
08:50You know, it doesn't matter if you're a freelancer.
08:52You're working corporate in an office at a nine-to-five desk job.
08:57Like, everyone experiences burnout.
08:59Yeah.
09:00And at some point, for me personally, at some point...
09:06Okay, say you chart your growth, like, on...
09:08Yeah, on a chart, right?
09:10Say you chart your growth.
09:11At some point, you will sort of stagnate.
09:17Yeah, you will plateau.
09:18You will plateau.
09:19And that leads to stagnation.
09:22And obviously, in terms of, like, motivation as well,
09:24it's so hard when you're earning a certain level of income.
09:27Yeah.
09:28When you realize yourself as well that, like, I'm not learning anything anymore.
09:33Yeah.
09:33I'm not, you know, experiencing anything different.
09:38And my income is, like, staying exactly as it was.
09:42That's the time to go.
09:43Yeah.
09:44That's the time to go.
09:45Okay, so, again, I haven't worked in corporate for a long time.
09:47I've only quit my job two times.
09:48I've only had two jobs, right?
09:50Right.
09:50But both times, I quit when I felt like that.
09:53Right.
09:54In my first company, I was learning a lot at first.
09:57I was getting promotions and then promotion again.
10:00But at a certain point, after two and a half years,
10:03I felt like, okay, I don't think there's a lot more for me to learn.
10:06I'm sort of doing the same things now.
10:09And there's nowhere within this company that I want to go.
10:12Right?
10:13And then the salary jumps as well.
10:14I was just thinking, you know, how much more can I get?
10:16Right?
10:16So, that's when I thought, okay, it's time to go.
10:18Yeah.
10:19It's similar for my last job as well.
10:21I think I told this story before, but my boss asked me in a review,
10:24where do you see yourself in five years' time?
10:27Let's develop you there.
10:28And I was thinking, not here.
10:30No, I felt like I just wasn't learning anymore.
10:32I just felt like, you know, there's not much more to give.
10:34And that was the time for me to go.
10:35So, I, for one, I'm really not afraid to leave when things aren't right.
10:40But I know a lot of people stay.
10:41And I think that is when you can really get stuck.
10:43Yes.
10:44Yeah.
10:44But I think there are certain, like, situations or certain circumstances that, you know, sort of forces people to stay.
10:53You know, for example, I mean, you and I, we're unmarried.
10:57You know, I still live with my family.
11:00You don't live with your family anymore.
11:01But, I mean, those particular circumstances allow us to be able to quit, you know, quite easily and quite quickly if we want to.
11:14But, of course, there are people who have families to take care of, you know, bills to pay, debts to settle.
11:20So, they might not necessarily have that option, right?
11:23So, if that is the case.
11:24I agree.
11:25And you can't, you know, sit your boss down and get them to increase your income.
11:30How can you make the most of, like, what you've got?
11:34I think that's so hard, actually.
11:36Yeah, that's super hard.
11:37Yeah.
11:39That's the thing.
11:40Okay, from my experience, at least.
11:41Maybe I just don't have enough experience in corporate.
11:43The only way to get what you want is with leverage.
11:45Yeah.
11:45And the only way to have leverage is not threatening, but them knowing that you will leave if you don't get what you want.
11:55Yeah.
11:55But the only way you can do that is if you are willing to leave if you don't get what you want, right?
11:59Yeah.
11:59Absolutely.
12:00That's the thing.
12:01Unfortunately, okay, there will be some companies that are really nice who will just reward you based on what you deserve.
12:05But from my experience, at least, when you have leverage, that's when they will give you what you want.
12:09Yeah.
12:10But I also want to say, I guess there's two lessons from this.
12:13One is you do want to take risks when you're young.
12:16That's why I always tell people, take risks when you're young, when you don't have a lot of commitments or responsibilities.
12:20Once you're older, it's going to be tougher, for sure.
12:22So any big career change that you want to do when you're young, that's the time to do it.
12:26And number two, this is also why having savings, having an emergency fund is so important.
12:31And people think about it like, oh, what if my car breaks down and things like that?
12:34But it goes beyond that, right?
12:35If I have 10 years worth of my expenses saved up, like if I don't have an income, I can survive for 10 years,
12:40you won't be scared of quitting your job anymore.
12:43That's why I think it's extremely important to have money saved up.
12:46Yeah, no, absolutely.
12:47I think at the end of the day, like your salary is such a huge incentive as to like what, I mean, yeah, obviously, right?
12:53When you first apply to your job, like those are one of the major questions that you have.
13:00I don't think anybody will go into a job interview not asking like what your pay is going to be or like what you're,
13:08you will definitely state what your expectations are.
13:12And if you're working at a company for like a couple of years, like you also have an expectation for there to be like a certain increment, right?
13:21Of some sort, because that is, that is incentive, right?
13:24That is motivation.
13:26Whether people like to admit it or not, maybe, you know, if it's like a passion thing for you and you genuinely love what you're doing,
13:33then maybe it's not that big of an incentive, but it is a, an incentive regardless, regardless of whether or not you actually love the job you do or you don't.
13:45So, yeah.
13:46Okay.
13:47Let's move on to the stories.
13:49Okay.
13:50Okay.
13:50Let's do it.
13:51Alrighty.
13:52So the first story is when I found out my colleague was, sorry, first story is when I found out my colleague with less experience was earning 800, 800 ringgit more.
14:02I felt crushed.
14:03I kept replaying every project I had done every late night, every bit of extra effort.
14:08But instead of stewing in frustration, I started researching, checking salary reports, asking mentors and practicing how to bring up my pay.
14:16When appraisal season came, I, I asked for a meeting with my boss.
14:19I came prepared with numbers and results, not complaints.
14:22Two weeks later, I got a raise that day.
14:25I realized that confidence isn't just about speaking up.
14:28It's about backing yourself with facts.
14:29How can you turn salary envy into salary empowerment?
14:35Doing just that, basically.
14:36It's literally doing just that.
14:38I think at work, you have to ask.
14:41You have to ask for what you want.
14:43You can't just wait.
14:44I think some people have the mindset where, okay, if I just put my head down, I just work.
14:48If I just prove myself.
14:50Yeah.
14:50My class will notice me.
14:51HR will notice me.
14:52I'm going to get a raise.
14:54Unfortunately, that's not how it's going to work.
14:55If, let's say, Yasmin and I, we are in the same team and we have a boss, right?
14:59If I demand for a raise, I say, give me a raise this year or I'm quitting.
15:04And then Yasmin is just quiet.
15:06Who's the boss going to give a raise to?
15:07Me, for sure.
15:08Yeah.
15:08Because they think Yasmin is happy.
15:10Ymir is not happy.
15:11Let's give him the raise.
15:12And it's just going to keep going like that.
15:14So I think at work, you don't have to be aggressive about it.
15:17You don't have to be so demanding about it.
15:20But you have to ask.
15:21You have to let your boss know that you want what you want.
15:23If you don't ask, you don't know.
15:24Exactly.
15:25Or you don't get it.
15:26You won't even get it if you don't ask.
15:27Exactly.
15:29Okay.
15:30Second story.
15:31When promotions were slow, I turned my weekend photography hobby into a small business.
15:36It started with free shoots for friends, then weddings, and eventually paid corporate gigs.
15:41Within a year, my camera had earned me more than my annual increment.
15:45The extra income gave me freedom.
15:47I didn't feel trapped by my day job anymore.
15:49But more importantly, it reminded me that sometimes the skills you overlook can become
15:53your biggest asset.
15:55What's one skill you can monetize today without quitting your job?
15:58Ooh, that's so good.
16:00There's so many things, actually.
16:01Yeah.
16:02There's so many things.
16:03I feel like these days, because of the internet and everything, you can really monetize nearly
16:09every single skill.
16:10Anything, yeah.
16:12I saw on social media before, in Malaysia, someone was doing a class about how to be
16:17a magician.
16:18And I was like, who wants to be a magician?
16:21Yeah.
16:21And then I saw the replies, and the answers a lot of people wanted.
16:24A lot of people wanted.
16:24And they were willing to pay for it.
16:25Yeah.
16:26Yeah.
16:26The craziest things I would never think of.
16:29Everyone thinks, like, the standard stuff, software programming, design work.
16:32Yeah, of course, you can monetize.
16:33Yeah.
16:34Those are good skills.
16:35Yeah.
16:35But literally, anything that you think you're good at, you can try.
16:38Yeah.
16:39Absolutely.
16:40I mean...
16:40What's yours?
16:40What's yours?
16:41What would you do?
16:41Oh, gosh.
16:43What would I do?
16:46Book reviews.
16:47You could do that.
16:48Book reviews.
16:48There should be a market for that.
16:50Book reviews?
16:51Yeah.
16:51It's not really a thing here in Malaysia.
16:54That's what you think, though.
16:55Yeah.
16:55See, that's the thing.
16:56If you don't know...
16:56If you're a magician, he probably thought that.
16:58Yeah, he probably thought that.
16:58And then his friend is like, just try it, man.
17:00Yeah.
17:00I mean, there are so many different avenues that you can choose from.
17:03Like you said, right?
17:03There's like more of the techie stuff, which is like coding, building websites for people.
17:09What's it?
17:10Answering...
17:11What's it?
17:12Surveys?
17:13Like...
17:13What's it?
17:16Oh, my God.
17:18Customer support.
17:20Customer support.
17:20Like, those are like tech.
17:21And then you have like things like tutoring or photography, like we just mentioned in the story.
17:28Yeah.
17:29Photography, videography.
17:31There are actually websites where you can teach languages.
17:34Yes, yes, yes.
17:35Yeah.
17:36So you can teach English.
17:37Lingoda.
17:37Like, you get matched up with like a tutor, right?
17:40Yeah.
17:40And the tutor isn't necessarily like qualified, qualified.
17:43Like, they're not like teachers at like universities.
17:46Sometimes they're literally just people who want to find a side gig.
17:51Yeah.
17:51You know?
17:52So, yeah.
17:53So many opportunities.
17:54So many opportunities.
17:55But...
17:56There are some that are better than others.
17:57So maybe if you want to learn something to monetize, then definitely the very in-demand skills.
18:02Digital marketing.
18:03I think that's very in-demand.
18:04Yeah.
18:05Coding.
18:05Coding, yeah.
18:06Like, these days are so popular.
18:07Yeah.
18:07But that is if there's something you're doing purely to make money.
18:11You're trying to learn it to make money, then yeah.
18:12Look at those things.
18:13Google online.
18:14See what's in demand.
18:15But otherwise, if you want to try and monetize something that you already have, just think
18:18about what you're good at.
18:19I think a lot of people, they get very into something like me.
18:22I got very into personal finance.
18:24But initially, I didn't want to start a blog or a channel because I thought, surely everyone
18:29knows this, right?
18:29Because I know this.
18:31Then I wrote something and I shared it with my family and they were like, oh, this is
18:34so informational.
18:34I did not know this at all.
18:36And I was like, oh, okay.
18:38So yeah, it's the same with you.
18:39You know, you probably think like, ah, books, no one's interested.
18:42No one cares.
18:43Yeah.
18:43Yeah.
18:44There's definitely a market out there.
18:45You never know.
18:46You never know.
18:47Anyway, before we wrap things up, do you have any last words of advice?
18:51I think income is the most important pillar in personal finance, right?
18:57It is the most important thing.
18:58You can try and save, you can try and invest, budget, whatever that is.
19:01If your income is low, things are just going to be tough.
19:03So it's definitely an area where you need to sort of pay more attention to, especially
19:07as someone who is still young, right?
19:09So do what you can.
19:11I think work on your primary job.
19:13That is probably the easiest way for you to increase your income if you're thinking
19:16long term, but also look at side things.
19:18Yeah.
19:18Like we were just talking about.
19:20All right.
19:20Yeah.
19:20Okay.
19:21Well, yeah.
19:22Nice talking to you again, Yasmin.
19:24Hope you guys enjoyed this episode and see you guys in the next one.
19:27Peace.
19:27Bye.
19:28Bye.
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