Crown Court - My Old Man's a Dustman (1973) - video Dailymotion

Jezza

Crown Court: the gripping courtroom drama from the 1970s and 1980s.  Michael Mayes, Transport Manager of "Fulchester Metals", employed Albert and Martha Cousins to illegally dispose of 2000 gallons of liquid poisons, contravening the The Deposit of Poisonous Wastes Act 1972. Richard Wilson, Frank Middlemass and Tommy Godfrey star.

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00:02:41But you rang the police before you had made your analysis.

00:02:44Well, from the look of it, there was chromic acid in it.

00:02:47That has a very distinctive colour in water. It's orange.

00:02:49Yes, is chromic acid poisonous?

00:02:51Well, it's about 50 times more toxic than cyanide.

00:02:54Yes, and your subsequent analysis proved the presence of chromic acid in the pools of liquid.

00:02:58Yes.

00:02:58Now, will you tell us what else you found when you tested your samples?

00:03:01Well, that was enough all by itself. I was damn glad I got a police guard put on it.

00:03:04Yes, I'm sure. But what else did you find?

00:03:08Well, I found, my colleagues and I found mercury, salts of cadmium, zinc oxide, sulphate,

00:03:14confirmed the chromates, and then we isolated cyanide, lead, you name any poison, we found it.

00:03:21Yes. Now, Mr Carter, can you tell us, in layman's terms, the effects of some of those poisons?

00:03:26Well, mercury, for instance, is safe enough in a barometer, but it's a cumulative poison.

00:03:32That is to say, it tends to, in certain animals, for instance, shellfish,

00:03:37can absorb it in minute quantities, but they can't get rid of it, and so it builds up into a lethal dose.

00:03:43In Minimata, in Japan, almost a whole village died.

00:03:48Brain damage, hair falling out, the lot.

00:03:50And they thought they were suffering from some unknown illnesses,

00:03:53but in fact, a company was discharging mercury into the bay nearby.

00:03:58The fish absorbed the mercury, the villagers ate the fish.

00:04:01And the point is that the poison becomes more concentrated as it moves up the food chain.

00:04:05Yes, yes. But to get back to certain quarry, Mr Carter,

00:04:09from what source would you expect a mixture of chemicals and acids such as you found?

00:04:14A metal plating works.

00:04:16Yes, and you say that this mixture was, all in all, a most highly dangerous one.

00:04:20It was bloody lethal, and anyone found dumping stuff like that on open ground

00:04:23should have been a murder charge, never mind your hundred-pound fines.

00:04:26Yes.

00:04:27Oh, spiky, isn't he?

00:04:29It's you he's talking about.

00:04:30Mr Parsons, I don't think we can let that remark of your witness pass unchallenged.

00:04:35My Lord?

00:04:35Members of the jury, no one has died as a result of the deposit of this waste.

00:04:40We are here to decide whether the three accused were responsible for depositing this waste,

00:04:46and if so, whether they have a legal excuse or defence.

00:04:51The use of emotive words like murder is not going to help us to decide the issues before us.

00:04:55Now, Mr Carter, will you tell us exactly what would be the effect of these poisons?

00:05:00Well, it's fairly difficult to say, my Lord.

00:05:02I mean, the only guinea pig is the human being.

00:05:04We may discover in a hundred years' time that diseases like cancer and brain damage

00:05:10are a direct result of industrial waste pollution.

00:05:14We just don't know it until it's too late.

00:05:15Yes.

00:05:16So how exactly, Mr Carter, could these dumped poisons reach the public?

00:05:21Well, anyone getting into the quarry, a kid or an animal, gets under the fence,

00:05:25and the people that work there.

00:05:26But you see, the point is that no one would expect to find pools of poison just lying around.

00:05:32Sheep could drink that poison.

00:05:33We eat sheep.

00:05:34Yes, but the quarry is fenced about.

00:05:36Well, there's a fence of sorts, and there's a man in the gate,

00:05:39but so many people have got keys.

00:05:41Yes, but the fence is adequate there.

00:05:43Well, what's adequate?

00:05:44There is an old fence, but it certainly wouldn't stop children or animals

00:05:47and the people that work there.

00:05:48And then there's the question of seepage.

00:05:50Poison from that quarry could seep into the fresh water supply,

00:05:53onto arable land, anywhere.

00:05:55Yes, but how much cyanide, for example,

00:05:58would it take to poison the foodster water supply?

00:06:02Just a few gallons would kill most of us off.

00:06:05Yes, so that anyone with toxic waste to dispose of doesn't only have his legal obligation,

00:06:10but has a very real moral duty to the public

00:06:12to make absolutely certain it goes somewhere perfectly safe.

00:06:16My lord, as you have just pointed out, emotive language does not help us in judging these issues.

00:06:21I quite agree, Miss Gibson.

00:06:23What I was trying to say was, my lord, that the law came about

00:06:25because there's some right villains in this business,

00:06:27dumping all sorts of poison in unsafe places.

00:06:30There ain't enough tips.

00:06:31The government ought to do something about it.

00:06:33Mrs Cousins, you must not shout across the court.

00:06:35Now, keep quiet and behave yourself.

00:06:37There's tips that still have to be made unsafe.

00:06:40There's tips that we don't even know about.

00:06:42Yes.

00:06:43Now, under the new law,

00:06:44what is the safe and proper procedure for the disposal of toxic waste?

00:06:49You must give three clear working days' notice of what you're dumping and where

00:06:54to the local council, to the river authorities where the water originates and is to be dumped.

00:07:00So that you can be told if it's an unsuitable place?

00:07:02Yes.

00:07:04Now, did the local authority receive any notice

00:07:06that these 2,000 gallons of highly poisonous wastes

00:07:10were going to be dumped anywhere at all?

00:07:12No, they just turned up at the quarry.

00:07:14Now, if the council had received notice of intention

00:07:19to dump these poisons in certain quarry, what would have been the result?

00:07:23They'd have been told to take it elsewhere.

00:07:25We would have referred them to a couple of private disposal firms

00:07:28with safe sites and proper facilities.

00:07:30Yes, what is a safe site?

00:07:32A safe site is a site considered highly suitable for toxic waste,

00:07:38a site from which nothing can seep away to cause pollution,

00:07:41preferably perhaps surrounded by seawater

00:07:43and certainly big enough to be useful.

00:07:45Yes, well, there must be a shortage of such prime sites.

00:07:48Yes.

00:07:49When a site has been filled, it's used up.

00:07:52I mean, it can't be used again as a tip.

00:07:55Oh, bleeding genius he is, isn't he?

00:07:58No, it's... they put topsoil over it once it's full

00:08:01and then they grass it over, but it's finished up as a site.

00:08:04There aren't enough sites or treatment plants.

00:08:06So the disposing of waste is expensive.

00:08:09Yes.

00:08:10And presumably the cost of toxic or dangerous waste

00:08:13becomes higher with its nuisance value.

00:08:15Exactly.

00:08:17But the more difficult it is to dispose of waste legally,

00:08:21the more incentive there is to get rid of it illegally.

00:08:24Yes.

00:08:24Now, what would it have cost legally to dispose of these 2,000 gallons?

00:08:29Oh, well, you'd have to ask one of the private firms.

00:08:31They don't tell us the prices, but I think they're high.

00:08:34Now, Mr Carter, are you telling us that the disposal of all toxic waste

00:08:38is in the hands of private enterprise?

00:08:40The government has no facilities of its own.

00:08:43No.

00:08:43We had to get a private firm to get rid of this stuff for us.

00:08:46Well, then you must have known what that cost.

00:08:49It's not really my province,

00:08:51and then we had decontamination work as well,

00:08:53but pumping it off,

00:08:56carrying it away and dumping it legally

00:08:58cost in the region of 200.

00:09:01200 pounds?

00:09:02Thereabouts, I think so.

00:09:04200 pounds to add to the cost of manufacturing the goods

00:09:07and to cut into the profit margin.

00:09:09At least that, yes.

00:09:10Yes, one can see why a firm's attempted to save costs by cutting corners.

00:09:14Well, that's what it costs.

00:09:15And if that's what it costs to have a safe, clean, unpolluted country to live in,

00:09:19then that's what's got to be paid.

00:09:20Without a cost penalty,

00:09:22we'd be living in a giant rubbish tip from one end of the country to the other.

00:09:25Yes, sir, that if Fulchester Metals had disposed of these 2,000 gallons legally,

00:09:30it would have cost them 200 pounds.

00:09:32My lord!

00:09:33Mr Lyon?

00:09:34My lord, there's been no evidence that this waste originated from Fulchester Metals.

00:09:38Do I understand that point is not in dispute, is it, Mr Parson?

00:09:41No, my lord.

00:09:42There is a statement from the accused cousins

00:09:44admitting that he took the liquid from the company

00:09:46and discharged it to said inquiry.

00:09:48Now, do either of my learned friends wish to challenge this?

00:09:51My clients do not dispute any part of that evidence, my lord.

00:09:54My lord, in the defence of my client, Mr Mays,

00:09:56I shall show that acting in good faith,

00:09:58he contracted the others accused to dispose of this liquid legally and properly.

00:10:03And so far as Mr Mays was concerned, this was done.

00:10:06My lord, I think the evidence will show that this, in fact, was not done.

00:10:09Then we'd better wait for that evidence, haven't we?

00:10:13As your lordship pleases.

00:10:15I'm sure the jury will draw their own conclusions from my last question.

00:10:18No further questions, my lord.

00:10:19Oh, my lord.

00:10:20Shut up.

00:10:21I have no cross-examination, my lord.

00:10:24I've got a few questions, Mr Carter.

00:10:27How many scientific advisors are there in your department?

00:10:29Er, there's myself and three colleagues.

00:10:32Four men, full-time.

00:10:33You must be very busy.

00:10:34Yet have you ever had any other complaint at all against Fulchester Metals?

00:10:39No.

00:10:39Nor against Mr Mays?

00:10:41No.

00:10:42Then in view of how extremely dangerous this liquid was,

00:10:45don't you find that strange?

00:10:47Sorry?

00:10:48That a large and reputable company with disposal facilities

00:10:51set up and organised over many years

00:10:53should suddenly allow toxic waste to be left lying around,

00:10:56or that a man like Mr Mays, in his position, should allow it?

00:11:00Strange is one word for it, yes.

00:11:02And unbelievable.

00:11:04Unbelievable? No, you should be in my job.

00:11:06Oh, come now, Mr Carter.

00:11:07No, you ask the question.

00:11:07The size of the company has got nothing to do with it.

00:11:10Some of the biggest companies are the worst.

00:11:11Some of the biggest may be the worst,

00:11:13yet you have no knowledge of any complaint ever against this company.

00:11:17Now, don't you...

00:11:18Doesn't that seem extraordinary to you?

00:11:20Don't you find that extraordinary?

00:11:23A little, yes.

00:11:25But the act only came in last year.

00:11:27Mr Carter, do Mr and Mrs Cousins strike you as being stupid people?

00:11:30So stupid that they would knowingly dump 2,000 gallons of toxic waste

00:11:34where it could be easily found?

00:11:35Miss Gibson, you said you had no cross-examination.

00:11:38You know perfectly well that question is quite inadmissible.

00:11:41My lord, it's a question that hardly requires an answer.

00:11:44An unpleasant duty, but as managing director, I must make it plain that Fulchester Metals had no connection at all with this business.

00:12:09You said that you did employ Mr Mays as transport manager and he was responsible for removal of your company waste.

00:12:15Oh, yes, we employed him.

00:12:17And personally, I had the highest regard for him as a man and as an employee.

00:12:21Now, did you call a meeting of the board of directors on April the 10th, before which Mr Mays was summoned?

00:12:27Yes.

00:12:27And was he summoned before you all to tell what was described in the company minutes

00:12:32as a startling and unacceptable increase in transport costs and particularly toxic waste disposal costs?

00:12:40I don't remember the words, but he was hauled over the cold somewhat, yes.

00:12:43Yes, and was he...

00:12:43And I'd like to know how you got hold of confidential company records.

00:12:46And was he told that unless he brought these costs back to near last year's figure,

00:12:53he could start looking for another job?

00:12:55No.

00:12:55No?

00:12:57Well, then, did you say, at the meeting,

00:13:02well, Mays, if you can't get these costs back to near last year's figures,

00:13:06we'll have to find someone who can?

00:13:08Out of context, those words sound much stronger than they were.

00:13:11Yes, but you did say that.

00:13:12Yes.

00:13:12Now, it's a threat, is it not, to dismiss someone when you talk of replacing him.

00:13:16An empty threat.

00:13:18Words.

00:13:18I mean, Mays knew that he had to do his best,

00:13:21but if it wasn't humanly possible, well, nobody expected miracles of him.

00:13:24You put pressure on him to cut his department's costs by any means at all,

00:13:29short of a miracle.

00:13:30I didn't say that.

00:13:32Hmm.

00:13:33Now, does food to metals have much toxic waste to dispose of?

00:13:37A great deal, yes.

00:13:38How much in a year, roughly?

00:13:39Oh, it's difficult to say for certain.

00:13:41And I'd say around 100,000 gallons.

00:13:43100,000 gallons from one firm alone?

00:13:47That must put a considerable strain on the few highly suitable sites available.

00:13:51It does, yes.

00:13:52And since the new act,

00:13:53the cost of disposing of toxic waste must have risen astronomically.

00:13:57Yes, that's true.

00:13:58But we have to do it.

00:14:00It's your policy always to comply with the law,

00:14:02even if it means cutting into your profit margins.

00:14:04Certainly, yes.

00:14:05And the law is for the greatest good of the people as a whole.

00:14:07Besides, as a company, we believe in the conservation of the environment.

00:14:12Yes, sir.

00:14:13Do you practice what you preach?

00:14:14Yes.

00:14:15We're large contributors to many organisations,

00:14:17such as the World Wildlife Fund,

00:14:20Survival International,

00:14:22the Save the Tiger Fund.

00:14:23Yes, all very laudable projects,

00:14:25but most of them in Africa or Asia.

00:14:28Now, doesn't charity begin at home, Mr Kenyon?

00:14:30What do you mean?

00:14:31Well, isn't it a fact

00:14:32that your recent application to establish a chemical factory in North Wales

00:14:36is still awaiting the go-ahead from the Minister of the Environment,

00:14:39pending a public inquiry,

00:14:41since the site is listed as one of special natural beauty?

00:14:45That's true.

00:14:46It's also an area of higher employment.

00:14:48Yes, which would afford you cheap labour.

00:14:51That's not the reason at all.

00:14:52Then what exactly is the reason

00:14:54for a fulgest of metals

00:14:55invading an area of special natural beauty?

00:14:58Well, there are many reasons.

00:14:59Yes, but aren't they all the same reasons

00:15:00as you've asked Mr Mays

00:15:02to cut the cost of waste disposal,

00:15:05reasons of economic profit,

00:15:06and very little to do with the community as a whole?

00:15:09I've told you that I...

00:15:09Yes.

00:15:10There are very few tigers to be saved in North Wales, Mr Kenyon,

00:15:14and pretty soon there'll be nothing else there either,

00:15:16if you have your way.

00:15:16No questions, my lord.

00:15:20Mr Kenyon, to get back to the case,

00:15:23had your company any serious intention

00:15:25of dismissing Mr Mays,

00:15:27or could he have possibly thought that you had?

00:15:29No, of course not.

00:15:32Thank you, Mr Kenyon.

00:15:35Now, Detective Sergeant,

00:15:36shortly after you've begun your inquiries,

00:15:39you received a telephone call.

00:15:41Oh, yes, sir.

00:15:41I had a call from Albert Cousins

00:15:43admitting that he dumped the liquid.

00:15:44I said that I must interview him,

00:15:46and we met later that same morning, sir.

00:15:48Yes, who was present at that meeting?

00:15:49Myself, sir, Police Constable Wooler,

00:15:52Cousins, and, er...

00:15:54Cousins solicitor.

00:15:55A gentleman named Leary.

00:15:56But he had a solicitor with him

00:15:57for the beginning of the very first meeting.

00:15:59Yes, sir.

00:16:01I see.

00:16:02Now, did Cousins make a statement to you at that meeting?

00:16:05No, sir, I asked him to accompany me to the police station,

00:16:08and he made a statement down there.

00:16:09Well, still with his legal advisor present.

00:16:11Yes, sir.

00:16:12Was this statement made under caution?

00:16:14Yes, sir.

00:16:14Could you read the statement?

00:16:15Yes, sir.

00:16:16As far as, please, Sergeant?

00:16:19Okay.

00:16:22I, Albert Arthur Cousins, etc.,

00:16:24a waste disposal contractor,

00:16:26was approached by Mr. Michael Mayes

00:16:28of Fulchester Metals

00:16:29to dispose of a tank full of liquid chemicals.

00:16:31I went with my wife, Martha,

00:16:33and quoted a price.

00:16:34The price I quoted was for toxic chemicals.

00:16:37However, Mr. Mayes then assured me

00:16:39the liquid was only non-toxic, harmless chemicals,

00:16:41and showed my wife and me a list

00:16:43where these chemicals he named

00:16:45were specifically excluded from the new law.

00:16:48I then said I would do the job for £40,

00:16:51which he accepted verbally,

00:16:53as was the custom.

00:16:54Later that day,

00:16:55I pumped off the tank

00:16:56and took the 2,000 gallons

00:16:57to set and quarry and discharged it.

00:17:00I regularly use set and quarry for non-toxics.

00:17:03The following day, however,

00:17:05my wife and I got to wondering

00:17:06why the tank Fulchester Metals

00:17:08usually used for toxics

00:17:09was now being used for non-toxics,

00:17:11and if some mistake had been made.

00:17:13I telephoned the town hall, just in case,

00:17:15but was referred to Fulchester CID,

00:17:18where I learnt this matter

00:17:19had become the subject of police enquiries,

00:17:21and now make this statement freely.

00:17:23Yes, voluntarily, yes, Sergeant.

00:17:24Yes, thank you, Sergeant.

00:17:25Now, is that the original statement

00:17:26you have there,

00:17:27signed by other cousins

00:17:28and witnessed by yourself?

00:17:30Yes, sir, it is.

00:17:31My lord, this statement will be Exhibit 1.

00:17:39Sergeant, it would seem Mr. Cousins

00:17:40came forward quite voluntarily.

00:17:42Yes, ma'am.

00:17:43Before he even knew

00:17:44that the error had been discovered.

00:17:47My lord, whatever the truth of it,

00:17:49to dispose of this poison

00:17:50onto an open tip was no error.

00:17:53Miss Gibson?

00:17:54An error is exactly what it was, my lord.

00:17:56It was hardly deliberate.

00:17:57Mr. Cousins believed it to be harmless.

00:17:59Now, Miss Gibson,

00:17:59you are scoring points off us.

00:18:01Whatever Mr. Cousins believed,

00:18:03he did not discharge the waste by accident.

00:18:06As your lordship pleases.

00:18:08Sergeant, Mr. Cousins

00:18:09came forward quite voluntarily,

00:18:11even before he was aware

00:18:13that the authorities

00:18:14were investigating the problem.

00:18:16I wouldn't know that, ma'am.

00:18:18But to the best of your knowledge,

00:18:19it is so.

00:18:20I don't know.

00:18:21He could easily have waited

00:18:22until you contacted him.

00:18:24Indeed, he might even have hoped

00:18:26that you would not contact him.

00:18:27I think I'd have found him.

00:18:29And then, indeed,

00:18:30a guilty man might have lied,

00:18:32mightn't he, Sergeant?

00:18:34Cousins did not lie.

00:18:35He freely admitted

00:18:36he was responsible

00:18:37for dumping the liquid, didn't he?

00:18:39I admitted that.

00:18:40Yes, ma'am.

00:18:40Now, much has been made,

00:18:43Detective Sergeant,

00:18:44of the fact that

00:18:44Mr. Cousins was far-sighted enough

00:18:46to have his legal advisers

00:18:48present with him

00:18:49during his interviews with you,

00:18:50hasn't it?

00:18:50Yes, ma'am.

00:18:51The implication being

00:18:52that anyone who feels

00:18:53the need of a lawyer

00:18:54is therefore guilty, perhaps.

00:18:56Well, I wouldn't say that.

00:18:57I hope you would not agree

00:18:58that anyone who feels

00:18:59the need of a lawyer

00:19:00is therefore guilty.

00:19:02No, ma'am.

00:19:03I'm sure that's a great relief

00:19:04to all of us,

00:19:05including my learned friend

00:19:06for the prosecution.

00:19:07Now, as a detective,

00:19:10Sergeant Hawes,

00:19:11how easy do you think

00:19:13it would be

00:19:13to trace any particular

00:19:15load of waste

00:19:15back to its source?

00:19:17Not easy.

00:19:18Bleeding impossible!

00:19:19Mrs. Cousins,

00:19:20I have told you already

00:19:21you must not shout

00:19:22across the court.

00:19:22I've heard you making

00:19:23several remarks.

00:19:24If there is any repetition

00:19:25of that,

00:19:26I shall have to deal

00:19:26with it most severely.

00:19:29All right, Miss Gibson.

00:19:30But it might indeed

00:19:31very often prove

00:19:32quite impossible,

00:19:33mightn't it, Detective Sergeant?

00:19:35Often, yes, ma'am.

00:19:36And yet,

00:19:37Mr. Cousins came forward

00:19:38quite voluntarily.

00:19:40Thank you very much.

00:19:42Did he, Sergeant?

00:19:44Sir?

00:19:45I meant,

00:19:45did he come forward

00:19:46quite voluntarily?

00:19:48Let's take it by stages.

00:19:49Now, at the beginning

00:19:50of your inquiries,

00:19:50you went to Seddon Quarry

00:19:51and you saw the owner

00:19:52and the gateman.

00:19:53What did you learn?

00:19:54Oh, well, sir,

00:19:55two firms had

00:19:57long-term contracts

00:19:58to use the place

00:19:59for liquids

00:19:59and other people

00:20:01use it just occasionally.

00:20:02Half a dozen, all at all.

00:20:03So it seemed likely

00:20:04that the culprit

00:20:05who discharged

00:20:05this poison

00:20:06was one of just

00:20:07half a dozen firms.

00:20:09Not necessarily, sir.

00:20:10The owner told me

00:20:11he'd been having

00:20:12some trouble

00:20:12with spare keys to the tip.

00:20:14Trouble with spare keys?

00:20:15Oh, yes, sir.

00:20:16Sooner than the employee

00:20:17gate meant

00:20:18to be there day and night,

00:20:19the owner had given

00:20:19keys to some

00:20:20of the regular users,

00:20:21but some keys

00:20:23had been copied

00:20:23and passed around

00:20:24and unauthorised people

00:20:26had got hold of them.

00:20:27The owner asked

00:20:27for them back,

00:20:28but he suspected

00:20:29that there was still

00:20:30one or two

00:20:30to be accounted for.

00:20:31Now, in the records

00:20:32that you saw,

00:20:33was there any record

00:20:34of the discharge

00:20:34of any liquid

00:20:35on or about

00:20:36the 14th of April?

00:20:37No, sir.

00:20:37Therefore, it seemed likely

00:20:39that these 2,000 gallons

00:20:40had been discharged

00:20:41by somebody with a key.

00:20:42And could the gateman

00:20:43shed any more light

00:20:44on this question?

00:20:45No, sir.

00:20:46He said he'd have

00:20:47to think about it.

00:20:49In view of the short

00:20:50tire lapse, sir,

00:20:50I couldn't believe

00:20:51he meant that he needed

00:20:52to search his memory.

00:20:53What did you believe?

00:20:54Well, I believe he knew

00:20:55or guessed

00:20:56who might be responsible

00:20:57and he wanted to think

00:20:58about whether or not

00:20:59he should tell us, sir.

00:21:01However, as I say,

00:21:02the question became,

00:21:03well, academic

00:21:04because then

00:21:05Mr Cousins

00:21:05rung us up.

00:21:07So, did he really

00:21:08come forward

00:21:09quite voluntarily

00:21:10or do you believe,

00:21:11as you've just said,

00:21:12that the gateman knew

00:21:13or guessed who

00:21:14was responsible?

00:21:15I've no way

00:21:16of knowing, sir.

00:21:19Now, these

00:21:20unaccounted for keys

00:21:21that we've heard about,

00:21:22did you establish

00:21:23whether or not

00:21:23Martha and Albert

00:21:25Cousins had such a key?

00:21:26Yes, sir, they had.

00:21:27They told us so.

00:21:28From whom

00:21:29had they obtained it?

00:21:30From Narroway, sir.

00:21:31The gatekeeper.

00:21:33Well, loath as I am

00:21:34to seem to be doing

00:21:35the prosecution's job

00:21:36for them,

00:21:36why did this not come out

00:21:37in your evidence-in-chief?

00:21:39I wasn't asked, sir.

00:21:40Sergeant,

00:21:41was the gateman

00:21:42on duty

00:21:43throughout the whole day

00:21:44on April the 14th?

00:21:45Yes, my lord.

00:21:45And yet he claims

00:21:46to have no knowledge

00:21:47of someone

00:21:47discharging 2,000 gallons

00:21:50of liquid

00:21:50and there is

00:21:51no official record.

00:21:52That's correct,

00:21:52your honour.

00:21:53So either the gateman

00:21:54was lying to you

00:21:55or Cousins used his key

00:21:56to enter the dump

00:21:57at night

00:21:57when nobody was there

00:21:58to see him.

00:21:59Yes, sir.

00:21:59My lord,

00:22:00surely this is quite irrelevant.

00:22:02It has already been

00:22:03clearly established

00:22:04that the accused

00:22:05admits tipping this liquid.

00:22:07At what time

00:22:08it was tipped

00:22:08is, in my submission,

00:22:10quite irrelevant.

00:22:11I'm afraid I can't agree

00:22:12with you, Mr Parsons.

00:22:13It seems to me

00:22:13that the circumstances

00:22:14in which the waste

00:22:15was tipped

00:22:16is extremely relevant.

00:22:18Let your lordship please us.

00:22:19So as I was saying,

00:22:21Sergeant Hawes,

00:22:21either the gateman

00:22:22narrowway was lying

00:22:23or Cousins used his

00:22:24unreturned key

00:22:26to enter the dump

00:22:27after hours.

00:22:27Yes, sir.

00:22:29Just to recapitulate

00:22:30then, Sergeant,

00:22:30Cousins may or may not

00:22:32have come forward

00:22:32quite voluntarily.

00:22:34He may or may not

00:22:35have come forward

00:22:36because he knew

00:22:36you'd find him anyway

00:22:37and he may or may not

00:22:39have entered the tip

00:22:40without authority

00:22:40after hours

00:22:41to discharge this

00:22:42poisonous liquid.

00:22:43Yes, sir.

00:22:44You saw the gateman again?

00:22:46Yes, sir, many times.

00:22:47And what further light

00:22:48did he shed on these matters?

00:22:50None, sir.

00:22:51None at all?

00:22:52No, sir.

00:22:54Thank you, Sergeant.

00:22:57No re-examination, my lord.

00:23:01Then thank you.

00:23:02You may stand down, Sergeant.

00:23:03Your Honor.

00:23:08There concludes the case

00:23:09for the prosecution, my lord.

00:23:10Do I understand you

00:23:14to be saying, Mr Parsons,

00:23:15that that is the whole

00:23:16of your case?

00:23:17Yes, my lord.

00:23:17What, do you intend

00:23:18to call no further witness?

00:23:19No, my lord.

00:23:21Then I want to ask

00:23:22counsel for the defence.

00:23:23Do either of you

00:23:24intend to call this

00:23:26gateman narrow way?

00:23:27No, my lord.

00:23:28No, my lord.

00:23:32Very well.

00:23:32Members of the jury,

00:23:33I am not satisfied here.

00:23:34As I have said,

00:23:35the circumstances

00:23:36of how this liquid

00:23:37came to be dumped

00:23:38must be known to you

00:23:39before you can arrive

00:23:40at your verdict.

00:23:42Now, I have certain

00:23:43discretionary powers

00:23:44to call witnesses

00:23:45not called by the defence

00:23:46or the prosecution

00:23:47if I think that such a course

00:23:49is necessary

00:23:50in the cause of justice.

00:23:51Well, I do think so now.

00:23:53I am therefore going

00:23:54to make an order

00:23:54that this gateman

00:23:55narrow way

00:23:56shall appear before us

00:23:58tomorrow

00:23:58in this court.

00:23:59The case of the Queen

00:24:23against Cousins,

00:24:24Cousins and Mays

00:24:25will be resumed tomorrow

00:24:26in the Crown Court.

00:24:29Last year,

00:24:49many thousands

00:24:50of gallons of cyanide

00:24:51were found to have been

00:24:52dumped in dangerous places

00:24:53all over the Midlands.

00:24:55As a result,

00:24:56Parliament rushed

00:24:56through a new law,

00:24:57the Deposit of

00:24:58Poisonous Waste Act

00:24:591972.

00:25:01But dangerous dumping

00:25:02continues,

00:25:03and yesterday

00:25:03in Fullchester Crown Court

00:25:05we heard evidence

00:25:06that Michael Mays,

00:25:07transport manager

00:25:08of Fullchester Metals,

00:25:09employed Albert

00:25:10and Martha Cousins

00:25:11to dispose cheaply

00:25:13of 2,000 gallons

00:25:14of liquid poisons.

00:25:16Their different versions

00:25:17of the events

00:25:17put them in conflict

00:25:18with each other.

00:25:19Mays says he told them

00:25:20the liquid was toxic.

00:25:22They claim he hid the fact

00:25:24to save costs,

00:25:25and consequently

00:25:25they're being defended

00:25:27separately.

00:25:28Mr Lloyd appears

00:25:28for Mays

00:25:29and Miss Gibson

00:25:30for Mr and Mrs Cousins.

00:25:32Ladies and gentlemen

00:25:33of the jury,

00:25:34before I adjourned yesterday,

00:25:36I addressed certain remarks

00:25:37to you

00:25:38and made an order

00:25:39that a man should appear

00:25:40before us today

00:25:41to answer certain questions

00:25:42raised by the evidence

00:25:44we have heard

00:25:45and which I felt

00:25:45were not going to be

00:25:46properly answered otherwise.

00:25:47now I should tell you

00:25:49something of the way

00:25:50of this.

00:25:51Since I have called

00:25:52this witness,

00:25:54I must examine him.

00:25:55Under these circumstances,

00:25:57neither counsel for the prosecution

00:25:58nor counsel for the defense

00:25:59has the right

00:26:00to cross-examine

00:26:01unless they have

00:26:03my leave to do so.

00:26:06Call

00:26:06William Norris

00:26:08Arthur Narroway,

00:26:09please.

00:26:12William Norris

00:26:13Arthur Narroway,

00:26:14please.

00:26:14Will he come this way,

00:26:15sir, please?

00:26:25What is your religion?

00:26:31Roman Catholic.

00:26:32Take the testament

00:26:33in your right hand

00:26:34and read aloud

00:26:34the words on this card.

00:26:36I swear by almighty God

00:26:37that the evidence

00:26:38I shall give

00:26:38shall be the truth,

00:26:39the whole truth

00:26:40and nothing but the truth.

00:26:44You are William Norris

00:26:47Arthur Narroway?

00:26:48Yes, sir.

00:26:49Where do you live?

00:26:51277 Kings Road,

00:26:52Fulchester, sir.

00:26:52And where are you employed?

00:26:54Oh, at a rubbish dump, sir.

00:26:55Set in quarry

00:26:56as gate man.

00:26:57Are you the only

00:26:58gate man at set in quarry?

00:26:59Oh, yes, sir.

00:27:00Eight to five,

00:27:01five days a week, sir.

00:27:02And were you manning

00:27:03the gate there

00:27:03on April the 14th last?

00:27:06Er, I believe I was, sir, yeah.

00:27:08Now, do you know

00:27:08Martha and Albert Cousins?

00:27:10Oh, I do, sir, yeah.

00:27:12And can you see them

00:27:13now in this room?

00:27:14Oh, yes, sir.

00:27:15They're over there, sir.

00:27:18Are they friends of yours?

00:27:20Oh, no, I wouldn't say

00:27:21friends exactly.

00:27:22What is the relationship?

00:27:23Well, my eldest

00:27:24is married to their Eileen.

00:27:26Oh, your son

00:27:26is married to their daughter?

00:27:28Er, yes, sir.

00:27:28One of their daughters.

00:27:30And are you on good terms

00:27:31with the Cousins family?

00:27:32Oh, yes, sir.

00:27:33And are they

00:27:34on good terms with you?

00:27:36Oh, no, I don't know, sir.

00:27:37You don't know?

00:27:39Well, I mean, Albert and me,

00:27:40he's all right.

00:27:41You know, but Martha now.

00:27:42Yes?

00:27:43Well, she's been a bit touchy

00:27:44ever since this business,

00:27:45you know.

00:27:45What business?

00:27:47Well, this stuff

00:27:47that they were conned

00:27:48into dumping at the quarry.

00:27:49Mr. Narroway,

00:27:50we are here to decide

00:27:51how the liquid

00:27:51came to be in the quarry.

00:27:53Now, you must not make any...

00:27:54But he conned them, sir.

00:27:54That fellow...

00:27:55And you must not interrupt me.

00:27:57Oh, sorry, sir.

00:27:59Only he did, didn't he?

00:28:00The jury will decide that,

00:28:01Mr. Narroway.

00:28:02Now, just answer the questions,

00:28:03will you?

00:28:04Oh, sir, yes.

00:28:05Now, did you see

00:28:06Albert Cousins

00:28:07at any time

00:28:07on April the 14th?

00:28:09Never, sir.

00:28:10I think.

00:28:11Did he come to the quarry

00:28:12on that day

00:28:13to discharge liquid waste?

00:28:15No, sir.

00:28:17Probably not.

00:28:18What?

00:28:18Not even after you'd gone home

00:28:19at 5 p.m.

00:28:20How could you know that?

00:28:22Well, what did he say, sir?

00:28:24Mr. Narroway,

00:28:25it is of no importance to you

00:28:27what he says.

00:28:28You are here on oath

00:28:29and you must tell us the truth.

00:28:30Oh, I would, sir, yes.

00:28:31Well, did Mr. Cousins

00:28:33come to the quarry

00:28:34on April the 14th

00:28:35while you were there

00:28:36to discharge liquid waste?

00:28:38Never, sir.

00:28:40At least I don't think so.

00:28:42And yet at 8 o'clock

00:28:43the following morning

00:28:44when you arrived at work,

00:28:45what did you find?

00:28:46Yes, sir.

00:28:48Well, what?

00:28:50What did I find, sir?

00:28:52Was your employer there already

00:28:54and waiting for you?

00:28:55Oh, him, yeah.

00:28:55Yes, he was, sir.

00:28:56And what did he say to you?

00:28:59About the poison stuff?

00:29:00Yes.

00:29:01Well, that's what he said, sir.

00:29:03That some chemicals

00:29:04had been dumped,

00:29:05they smell pretty bad

00:29:06and we'd better get

00:29:06on to the council about it.

00:29:08Should he phone them himself, sir?

00:29:09The chemicals had not been there

00:29:10when you went home

00:29:11the night before.

00:29:12Oh, is that right, sir?

00:29:13Mr. Narroway,

00:29:14I am asking you.

00:29:16Oh.

00:29:16Had the 2,000 gallons

00:29:18of chemicals

00:29:19been dumped there

00:29:20by the time you went home

00:29:21on the evening

00:29:22of April the 14th?

00:29:24Oh, well, no.

00:29:25That was a long time ago,

00:29:26sir, you know.

00:29:28Mr. Narroway,

00:29:29you are in a court of law

00:29:30and you are on oath.

00:29:32Oh.

00:29:32Now, if you do not

00:29:33answer my questions

00:29:34and if you do not

00:29:35tell the truth on oath,

00:29:36the consequences to yourself

00:29:38could be very serious.

00:29:39Yes.

00:29:40I'm sorry, sir.

00:29:41Yeah.

00:29:41Did the chemicals arrive

00:29:42while you were there?

00:29:45Well, I mean,

00:29:46look at it this way, sir.

00:29:47I mean,

00:29:47I hope you understand, sir.

00:29:48But you see,

00:29:49Albert, he's a great mate of mine

00:29:50and, well,

00:29:51I'm not about to drop him

00:29:52in it now, am I, sir?

00:29:53Mr. Narroway,

00:29:54if you want to help

00:29:55Mr. Cousins,

00:29:55the very best thing

00:29:56that you can do for him now

00:29:57is to tell us the truth.

00:30:00Yeah, well, sir...

00:30:01Yes?

00:30:03Did he come

00:30:03while I was there, sir?

00:30:04Is that it?

00:30:04That is what

00:30:06I would like to know.

00:30:08Well, yes, he did, sir.

00:30:09I did see Albert

00:30:10and he brought the load.

00:30:11He was conned into dumping

00:30:12while I was there, sir.

00:30:13So, the load was brought

00:30:16while you were on duty?

00:30:17Yes, sir.

00:30:18Now, it is part of your job,

00:30:19is it not,

00:30:20to make a record

00:30:21of all loads

00:30:21into the quarry?

00:30:22Oh, it is, sir, yes, sir.

00:30:24Well, then,

00:30:24why was there no record

00:30:25of this load?

00:30:26I beg your pardon?

00:30:28Why was there no record

00:30:29of this load

00:30:30if Mr. Cousins brought it

00:30:32while you were on duty?

00:30:33Oh, was I not, sir?

00:30:35Well, you know

00:30:36there was no record.

00:30:37Oh, did I forget, sir?

00:30:39Well, now,

00:30:39did you forget, Mr. Narroway,

00:30:41or was there

00:30:41some other reason?

00:30:44What other reason, sir?

00:30:45You must tell us,

00:30:47Mr. Narroway.

00:30:48Well, I don't see

00:30:49how it's going to help him

00:30:50if I tell you, sir.

00:30:51You must tell us,

00:30:52Mr. Narroway.

00:30:54Couldn't you ask

00:30:55Albert himself, sir?

00:30:55Mr. Narroway,

00:30:56if you do not

00:30:58answer my question,

00:30:59I shall be forced

00:31:00to find you in contempt.

00:31:01I shall have to send you

00:31:02to jail

00:31:02and you will stay there.

00:31:03until you do answer.

00:31:05Oh, for God's sake,

00:31:07answering, Bill.

00:31:08Should I?

00:31:08I'm sorry, Albert,

00:31:09but you see how it is,

00:31:10don't you?

00:31:10Do not talk, please,

00:31:13to the defendant.

00:31:13Now, will you just

00:31:14answer the question?

00:31:15Yes, sir.

00:31:16Why did you make

00:31:17no record of this load?

00:31:19Well, you see,

00:31:19he'd already brought

00:31:20his load for that week, sir,

00:31:21and he's only allowed

00:31:22one load a week,

00:31:23and this one was another one,

00:31:25and one that he hadn't

00:31:25got a paper for.

00:31:27So you are telling us

00:31:28that Mr. Cousins'

00:31:29contract with the quarry

00:31:30allowed him to dump

00:31:31only one tankerful

00:31:32of liquid waste

00:31:33per week,

00:31:33and he had already

00:31:35done that?

00:31:35Yes, sir.

00:31:37Well, could he not

00:31:37have got permission

00:31:38to discharge a second load?

00:31:40Ah, no, sir.

00:31:40You see,

00:31:41liquids,

00:31:42it's not very popular, sir.

00:31:43You know,

00:31:43it hangs around.

00:31:44Anyway,

00:31:44it was getting a bit full

00:31:45of the quarry,

00:31:46you know,

00:31:46and it was nearly time

00:31:47for the river authorities

00:31:48to come and take

00:31:49their samples.

00:31:50Well, we never let them

00:31:50dump just before that, sir.

00:31:51And why did you not

00:31:53tell us all this before?

00:31:55Well, like I said, sir,

00:31:56I didn't want to drop

00:31:57a minute, did I?

00:31:58Sir Narroway,

00:31:58you are a very foolish man.

00:32:00Yeah, sorry, sir.

00:32:01What you are now telling

00:32:02us is the truth.

00:32:04Mr. Cousins merely exceeded

00:32:06the terms of his contract

00:32:07with the quarry.

00:32:08Now, that is not a question

00:32:09before this court.

00:32:10It is not even

00:32:11especially serious.

00:32:12Oh.

00:32:12Now, by your attitude,

00:32:14you have made us believe

00:32:15that you are hiding

00:32:15something much more serious.

00:32:17Oh, sorry, sir.

00:32:18Well, now,

00:32:19when Mr. Cousins brought

00:32:20this load to you,

00:32:21what did he say about it?

00:32:22What do you mean, sir?

00:32:23Well, did he tell you

00:32:24what it was,

00:32:24anything at all about it?

00:32:26Well, no.

00:32:26He just had to keep

00:32:27quiet about it.

00:32:28That was all, sir.

00:32:28Why was that?

00:32:29Well, because it was

00:32:30one he hadn't got

00:32:31a docket for, sir.

00:32:31No paperwork.

00:32:32And did he say

00:32:33what it was?

00:32:34One he hadn't got

00:32:35a docket for.

00:32:37Did he tell you

00:32:38what was the nature

00:32:39of the load?

00:32:40Oh, I don't know, sir.

00:32:42Oh, er, suds oil.

00:32:43Suds oil?

00:32:44Yeah, it was like

00:32:45soap in his tanker.

00:32:46And did he tell you

00:32:47whether or not

00:32:48it was poisonous?

00:32:49Oh, well, no.

00:32:49He wouldn't be

00:32:50carrying around

00:32:50poison and stuff,

00:32:51would he, sir?

00:32:52Well, according to

00:32:52the evidence, he was.

00:32:53Was he?

00:32:54Oh, yeah, he was.

00:32:54But you see,

00:32:55he was conned.

00:32:55Now, Mr Narroway,

00:32:57after your employer

00:32:58had phoned the

00:32:58local authorities

00:33:00and they had made

00:33:00an analysis of the liquid,

00:33:02the police were called in.

00:33:03Now, did Detective

00:33:04Inspector Hawes,

00:33:05Detective Sergeant Hawes,

00:33:06come to the quarry

00:33:07to question you?

00:33:08Well, if that was his name,

00:33:09sir, a copper guy.

00:33:10Yeah, a policeman came,

00:33:11yes, sir.

00:33:11He did.

00:33:11Yes, and did you,

00:33:13after that first visit

00:33:14of the police,

00:33:14contact Mr Cousins

00:33:17to say that the police

00:33:18had been to see you?

00:33:19No, sir, I did not.

00:33:20You did not tell

00:33:21Mr or Mrs Cousins

00:33:23about the police inquiries?

00:33:24No, sir.

00:33:26Nor anyone

00:33:26who could have told them?

00:33:28Oh, well, now,

00:33:29I suppose I might have

00:33:29done that, sir, yes.

00:33:31Who?

00:33:32Oh, well,

00:33:33I mean, I was talking

00:33:35about it down the pub,

00:33:36you know,

00:33:36down the public house

00:33:37to a lot of people,

00:33:38and I suppose anyone

00:33:38could have told them

00:33:39afterwards, couldn't they?

00:33:40This was the evening

00:33:41of April the 15th.

00:33:42Oh, was it?

00:33:44Was it the same evening

00:33:45after the police

00:33:46first came to see you?

00:33:47Oh, yes, sir, it was, yeah.

00:33:51Well, Mr Narroway,

00:33:52is there anything else

00:33:54you know about this affair

00:33:55that you think

00:33:55you ought to tell us?

00:33:58Well, sir, only this.

00:33:59What?

00:34:00They were conned,

00:34:01I'm sure of it.

00:34:02They were conned,

00:34:02but I fell...

00:34:03Very well,

00:34:03very well, Mr Narroway,

00:34:04thank you.

00:34:05Oh.

00:34:06Mr Parsons, Mr Lloyd,

00:34:07Miss Gibson,

00:34:07in view of the nature

00:34:08of this evidence,

00:34:10I will give leave

00:34:12for cross-examination.

00:34:13Oh, my lord,

00:34:15I think the cross-examination

00:34:16of this witness

00:34:16is a pleasure

00:34:17the prosecution

00:34:18is willing to forego.

00:34:21My lord,

00:34:21Mr Narroway's loyalty

00:34:22towards my client

00:34:23speaks for itself.

00:34:25Does it?

00:34:26Lord, if I may say so

00:34:27with all respect,

00:34:28you've admirably succeeded

00:34:29in shedding light

00:34:30into some very dark places.

00:34:32I wouldn't like

00:34:33to risk blowing a fuse.

00:34:36Well, Mr Narroway,

00:34:37you may stand down.

00:34:38Sir.

00:34:39You may leave

00:34:42the witness box,

00:34:43Mr Narroway.

00:34:44Oh, thank you, sir.

00:34:46Thank you, Mr Narroway.

00:34:47Oh, you're very welcome.

00:35:05So, Mr Cousins,

00:35:07you stand by the statement

00:35:08you made to the police.

00:35:09That's right,

00:35:09otherwise I wouldn't

00:35:10have made it.

00:35:11Now, let's just clear up

00:35:12this question of when

00:35:13you dumped the liquid.

00:35:14About quarter past four

00:35:15in the afternoon.

00:35:15Of?

00:35:16Well, whenever,

00:35:17whatever it was,

00:35:18the same day,

00:35:18the 14th.

00:35:19Why didn't you

00:35:20tell the police that?

00:35:21Bill Narroway

00:35:22just told you why.

00:35:23Why didn't your friend,

00:35:24your relative,

00:35:25Mr Narroway,

00:35:25why did he make

00:35:26such a mystery of it?

00:35:27Oh, he was only

00:35:28trying to help,

00:35:29wasn't he?

00:35:29To help you.

00:35:31Oh, Bill's all right,

00:35:32but he doesn't always

00:35:33see things straight.

00:35:34He knew I never had

00:35:34a docket for that load,

00:35:35I shouldn't have discharged it.

00:35:37He thought that was

00:35:38what this was all about

00:35:38and he didn't want to

00:35:39see me getting into

00:35:39any trouble.

00:35:40So why didn't you

00:35:41tell this to the police?

00:35:42Oh, I did.

00:35:43Well, I tried,

00:35:43but they wouldn't

00:35:44believe me.

00:35:45I mean, Bill changed

00:35:46his story every five minutes,

00:35:48even after I told him

00:35:49to tell.

00:35:49Well, he's all right,

00:35:51but, well, as you know.

00:35:52But you did have

00:35:53your own key

00:35:54to the quarry gates.

00:35:55Oh, I had,

00:35:55but I give it back.

00:35:56Well, I had it then.

00:35:57Well, why didn't you

00:35:58simply use the key

00:35:59to let yourself

00:35:59into the tip with this load

00:36:01when there were no witnesses,

00:36:02no one about?

00:36:03Well, look,

00:36:03you want the truth,

00:36:04don't you?

00:36:05I'm not above

00:36:06bending the rule,

00:36:06but I'm not a villain.

00:36:08If I'd have known

00:36:08there were toxins,

00:36:09I wouldn't have dumped

00:36:09toxins in Seddon

00:36:10if I'd have known.

00:36:11As far as I was concerned,

00:36:12it was class four waste,

00:36:14suds oils.

00:36:15And I didn't care

00:36:16if there was any witnesses

00:36:17or not.

00:36:18I had to tell Bill

00:36:18because I didn't want

00:36:19to keep sneaking

00:36:20loads up on him.

00:36:21What is class four waste?

00:36:22Well, you know,

00:36:23it's waste,

00:36:24it's class four,

00:36:25it's not notifiable.

00:36:28Now, what were your arrangements

00:36:30with Seddon Quarry

00:36:31for dumping waste?

00:36:32One lorry load of,

00:36:34one tanker of liquid a week

00:36:36and the dry loads

00:36:37by arrangement.

00:36:37And you'd used your quota

00:36:38for that week?

00:36:39That's right, yeah.

00:36:40Well, why not simply wait

00:36:41until the next week

00:36:41and dump it then?

00:36:43Well, you see,

00:36:43once a week

00:36:44is a regular contract.

00:36:45I would have still

00:36:45had the trouble of,

00:36:46the bother of getting

00:36:47rid of the stuff.

00:36:48Why?

00:36:49Well, because you can't

00:36:51dump it anywhere.

00:36:52People have got their own tips,

00:36:53they won't let you use it.

00:36:55And I mean,

00:36:55after all,

00:36:55liquid is a very hard thing

00:36:56to get rid of.

00:36:57And I'm in the business

00:36:58and I wanted to keep

00:36:59sweet with the quarry.

00:37:00But what would you

00:37:00have done with it

00:37:01if you had known

00:37:01that this liquid

00:37:02was dangerous?

00:37:03Oh, nothing.

00:37:05Nothing?

00:37:06Well, I'd have never

00:37:07took it, would I?

00:37:07I mean, I was not set

00:37:09for it, not with this act.

00:37:10I mean, the toxics,

00:37:11nobody wants them.

00:37:12And it messed my tanker up.

00:37:14I mean, I had to get it

00:37:14flushed out,

00:37:15decontaminated,

00:37:16and it cost money.

00:37:17How much money?

00:37:19A lot more than

00:37:20the 40 quid

00:37:20I was paid for it.

00:37:22I mean, there was

00:37:23the tanker,

00:37:24it was all right

00:37:24to have it,

00:37:24£25 to be decontaminated,

00:37:27and it stood there

00:37:27all the week,

00:37:28doing nothing.

00:37:29And it cost money

00:37:30to have a 2,000-gallon tanker

00:37:32doing nothing

00:37:33all the week.

00:37:33So that setting right

00:37:34the contamination

00:37:35caused by carrying

00:37:36toxics in your tanker

00:37:38actually cost you

00:37:39more money

00:37:40than the whole job

00:37:40was worth?

00:37:41Yes.

00:37:42Would you tell us now,

00:37:45in your own words,

00:37:46Mr. Cousins,

00:37:46how you came

00:37:47to do this job?

00:37:48Well, Mr. Mays,

00:37:49he phoned me up

00:37:50and asked me

00:37:50if I wanted a job,

00:37:51and I said yes.

00:37:52You knew Mr. Mays?

00:37:53Oh, I worked for him

00:37:54before.

00:37:54I'd done a fair bit

00:37:55before the act.

00:37:56Go on.

00:37:57Well, me and Martha,

00:37:58that's my missus,

00:37:59we went over to

00:38:00Forchester Metals

00:38:00to see him,

00:38:02and he said,

00:38:02it's a 2,000-gallon tank,

00:38:04and I said,

00:38:04that'll cost you

00:38:04200 quid.

00:38:05But you said a moment ago

00:38:06that you'd have had

00:38:07nothing to do with it

00:38:08if you'd known

00:38:08that it was toxic.

00:38:09No, I said,

00:38:10I would have never

00:38:10took it in my tank.

00:38:12Well, I know

00:38:13what I could have done

00:38:13because I could have

00:38:14subcontracted it

00:38:15and still made

00:38:16a fair profit.

00:38:17Ah, you'd have brought

00:38:18in another firm,

00:38:18one that had its own

00:38:19properly licensed tip

00:38:20for dumping waste.

00:38:21Yes.

00:38:22You said 200 pounds.

00:38:24Well, Mr. Mays,

00:38:25he said,

00:38:26200 pounds,

00:38:27he said,

00:38:27you've got it all wrong

00:38:28this time, Melbert,

00:38:29he said,

00:38:29because it's only waste,

00:38:30it's only class four.

00:38:31And I said,

00:38:32what's class four?

00:38:33You didn't know

00:38:33what class four was

00:38:34at the time?

00:38:35I didn't know then,

00:38:36but I've learnt a lot

00:38:37about it

00:38:37since all this bother.

00:38:38Then he brings a list out

00:38:39and it's got

00:38:40important government notice

00:38:42and on this list

00:38:43it tells you

00:38:43all the stuff

00:38:44that you can dump

00:38:44without ever

00:38:45notifying anybody.

00:38:46I mean,

00:38:47stuff you can dump

00:38:48anywhere without

00:38:48having a license

00:38:49in triplicate.

00:38:50What did he say

00:38:51about the list?

00:38:52Well, he showed me

00:38:53the name of the chemicals

00:38:53and he said,

00:38:54that's all you've got

00:38:55in it this time,

00:38:55Melbert.

00:38:56And I said,

00:38:56if you say so,

00:38:57and Mr. Mays said,

00:38:58I do say so.

00:39:00So me and Martha

00:39:00had a chat about the price,

00:39:02I said 40 pounds,

00:39:03he said,

00:39:03you're on.

00:39:03We shook hands

00:39:04and that's all there was to it.

00:39:06And the question

00:39:07of giving notice?

00:39:08Well, you didn't have

00:39:08to give it,

00:39:09you see,

00:39:09because it was

00:39:10class four,

00:39:11it wasn't notifiable.

00:39:12Quite,

00:39:12and then you disposed

00:39:13of it as we know.

00:39:16Why the same day?

00:39:18Well,

00:39:18the tanker was doing nothing,

00:39:19I had a couple of hours

00:39:20to spare,

00:39:21so I'd done it

00:39:21in the afternoon.

00:39:22And what prompted you

00:39:23to telephone the council

00:39:24about it the next day?

00:39:26Well,

00:39:26I mean,

00:39:27it was the look

00:39:28on Mr. Mays' face,

00:39:29he had a funny look

00:39:30in his eyes

00:39:30when I said 40 pounds.

00:39:33And I couldn't understand it.

00:39:34I got that funny feeling

00:39:35and I started wondering.

00:39:38You know,

00:39:38I was wondering

00:39:38whether I'd been taken on.

00:39:40Taken on?

00:39:41Well,

00:39:41you know what I mean,

00:39:42conned.

00:39:44I mean,

00:39:44not heavy,

00:39:44but just that little bit

00:39:45of a feeling.

00:39:46And I kept wondering

00:39:47about it

00:39:48and all of a sudden

00:39:49Martha come in

00:39:50from the yard,

00:39:50she said,

00:39:51Albert,

00:39:51all that tanker

00:39:52don't have stink out there.

00:39:54It's got horrible smell,

00:39:55I said,

00:39:55I know it has,

00:39:56I smelled it

00:39:56when I dumped it.

00:39:57She said,

00:39:57but it's not a natural smell,

00:39:59Albert.

00:40:00She said,

00:40:00where did you dump it?

00:40:01I said,

00:40:01in the quarry.

00:40:03She said,

00:40:03well,

00:40:03I think you'd better cover yourself

00:40:04and ring the town hall.

00:40:06Which you did.

00:40:06Which I did

00:40:07and they said,

00:40:07if you're the fellow

00:40:08that dumped it,

00:40:09the police want to see you.

00:40:11I hung up

00:40:11and I said to Martha,

00:40:12Martha,

00:40:12I think we've got trouble.

00:40:13Because the police were involved?

00:40:15Well,

00:40:15the police are not very fond

00:40:16of people in our business

00:40:17and right away,

00:40:19Martha said,

00:40:19I think you'd better get Mr. Leary.

00:40:21Mr. Leary being your solicitor?

00:40:22Yeah,

00:40:23well,

00:40:23he's mine.

00:40:23He's just made a will out

00:40:24for me and Martha.

00:40:25I mean,

00:40:25we're not chickens anymore

00:40:27and we've got seven kids

00:40:28to fight over it.

00:40:28You contacted Mr. Leary then

00:40:30before you phoned the police?

00:40:31Yes,

00:40:32I phoned him

00:40:32and he said,

00:40:33don't do anything

00:40:33till I get there

00:40:34and he comes straight over.

00:40:36And then on his advice,

00:40:37you phoned Detective Sergeant Hawes?

00:40:39Well,

00:40:39they put me through to him,

00:40:40yes.

00:40:41Now,

00:40:41was this the very first

00:40:42you'd heard of it

00:40:43or had anyone warned you already

00:40:45that the police

00:40:46were making inquiries?

00:40:47It was the first

00:40:48I'd heard of it.

00:40:49I was never warned.

00:40:51At this meeting

00:40:52you had with Mr. Mays

00:40:53when he showed you the list

00:40:55and told you

00:40:55that the liquid was harmless,

00:40:57who was present?

00:40:58Well,

00:40:59him,

00:40:59me

00:41:00and Martha.

00:41:01So your wife

00:41:02heard all of the conversation?

00:41:04Oh,

00:41:04yes.

00:41:06Thank you,

00:41:06Mr. Cousins.

00:41:08Your wife?

00:41:10Well,

00:41:10what about her?

00:41:11Well,

00:41:12you wouldn't expect

00:41:12your own wife

00:41:13not to support your story,

00:41:14would you?

00:41:14She's never known Martha.

00:41:16Why did your wife

00:41:17go along with you

00:41:17to that meeting

00:41:18with Mr. Mays?

00:41:19Well,

00:41:19because she's very good

00:41:20at money.

00:41:21I mean,

00:41:21she always likes

00:41:22to go along.

00:41:23Well,

00:41:23can't you handle

00:41:23the business yourself?

00:41:24Well,

00:41:24don't get saucy

00:41:25with me,

00:41:26mate.

00:41:26Just answer the question,

00:41:27Mr. Cousins,

00:41:28please,

00:41:28and politely.

00:41:30I'll answer it politely

00:41:30if he stops being rude.

00:41:32Of course,

00:41:32I can do my own business,

00:41:33but sometimes

00:41:34she can do it

00:41:34better than me.

00:41:35Now,

00:41:35your wife said

00:41:36that the tanker

00:41:37had a real horrible smell.

00:41:39Yeah?

00:41:39An empty tanker.

00:41:40Well,

00:41:40if it smelled

00:41:41so horribly then,

00:41:42why on earth

00:41:42didn't you wonder

00:41:43about it

00:41:43when you were

00:41:44discharging it?

00:41:44Because it never

00:41:45crossed my mind

00:41:46it was toxic,

00:41:46not what Mr. Mays said.

00:41:48It never crossed

00:41:49your mind,

00:41:49yet you claimed

00:41:50to have had,

00:41:50what were your words,

00:41:51a little feeling

00:41:51as though I'd been

00:41:52taken on,

00:41:53conned.

00:41:53Well,

00:41:54yes,

00:41:54well,

00:41:54I wondered about it

00:41:55but I was doing a job.

00:41:56How much did you pay

00:41:57Bill Narroway

00:41:57to bribe him

00:41:58to let you bring in

00:41:59an unauthorised load?

00:42:00Bunged him a fiver.

00:42:01You bribed him

00:42:02with five pounds?

00:42:03You can call it a bribe

00:42:04but it's normal.

00:42:05In your business

00:42:05it's normal?

00:42:06Yes.

00:42:07Now,

00:42:07what work had you done

00:42:08before for Mr. Mays?

00:42:09The same as always,

00:42:10all his waste,

00:42:11muck.

00:42:11Toxic waste?

00:42:13Well,

00:42:13before the act.

00:42:14From his 2,000 gallon

00:42:15toxic tank?

00:42:16Yes.

00:42:17Regularly?

00:42:17Yes.

00:42:18Up until the time

00:42:19that the act came into force,

00:42:20you regularly

00:42:21used to dispose

00:42:21of the toxic waste

00:42:23from Fulchester

00:42:24Metal's 2,000 gallon

00:42:25toxic waste tank.

00:42:26Yes.

00:42:27I see.

00:42:28Where did you put it?

00:42:30What?

00:42:30Where did you discharge

00:42:32the liquid

00:42:32that you disposed of

00:42:33for Mr. Mays?

00:42:34Oh,

00:42:34in the quarry.

00:42:35Seddon quarry?

00:42:35Oh,

00:42:36yes,

00:42:36well,

00:42:36I mean,

00:42:36there was no law

00:42:37against it then.

00:42:38Are you admitting

00:42:38that you have regularly

00:42:39used Seddon quarry

00:42:41to tip thousands

00:42:42and thousands

00:42:43of gallons

00:42:43of poisonous chemicals?

00:42:44Not since the act.

00:42:46Do the authorities

00:42:47know about this?

00:42:48Yes.

00:42:49Well,

00:42:49what are they doing

00:42:50about it?

00:42:50Nothing that I know of.

00:42:51Nothing?

00:42:52Well,

00:42:52no,

00:42:52I mean,

00:42:52the part where I used

00:42:53to do my tipping

00:42:54is all shut up now.

00:42:55I mean,

00:42:55they're going to

00:42:56decontaminate it

00:42:57and,

00:42:57well,

00:42:58it's safe enough.

00:43:00So,

00:43:00you regularly tipped

00:43:01thousands of gallons

00:43:02of toxic waste

00:43:03into the quarry

00:43:04over how many years?

00:43:05About three,

00:43:06every two or three months,

00:43:07not much more anyway.

00:43:08That's an average

00:43:09of 10,000 gallons

00:43:10for three years.

00:43:1130,000 gallons

00:43:12of liquid

00:43:13that we've heard

00:43:13an expert chemist

00:43:14call bloody lethal.

00:43:16Aren't you criminally

00:43:17irresponsible,

00:43:18Mr. Cousins?

00:43:19My Lord.

00:43:19If that is not

00:43:20a correct inference,

00:43:21Mr. Lloyd,

00:43:21it was not criminal

00:43:22before the act.

00:43:24Oh,

00:43:24with respect,

00:43:24my Lord,

00:43:24it is criminal now.

00:43:26It was always

00:43:26irresponsible.

00:43:27I don't think so.

00:43:28Don't you?

00:43:29Do you not,

00:43:29Mr. Cousins?

00:43:30Look,

00:43:30don't try and make me

00:43:31out to be a villa,

00:43:32mate,

00:43:32because everybody

00:43:33used that chip

00:43:33and there was

00:43:34never any complaint.

00:43:3530,000 gallons

00:43:36of lethal chemicals

00:43:37and you thought

00:43:37that nobody would

00:43:38notice just a couple

00:43:39of thousand more.

00:43:40No.

00:43:40No?

00:43:41No!

00:43:41You're on oath,

00:43:42Mr. Cousins.

00:43:42I know that!

00:43:43You've already lied

00:43:44to the police.

00:43:47Now,

00:43:47do you use

00:43:47the same local

00:43:48as Bill Narroway,

00:43:49the same public house?

00:43:50You what?

00:43:51You need time

00:43:52to think,

00:43:52do you?

00:43:52It's a simple

00:43:53enough question.

00:43:53Do you sometimes

00:43:54go into the same

00:43:54public house

00:43:55as Bill Narroway?

00:43:56Sometimes.

00:43:56Do you sometimes

00:43:56go for a beer with him?

00:43:57Sometimes.

00:43:58And the same

00:43:59public house

00:43:59as that in which

00:44:00he told everybody

00:44:01about the police

00:44:02inquiries the night

00:44:03after your illegal

00:44:04dumping had been

00:44:04discovered?

00:44:05Sometimes they go

00:44:05in the public.

00:44:06And are you in

00:44:06there in that evening?

00:44:07No,

00:44:08and if I want you

00:44:08to prove,

00:44:09brought witnesses

00:44:10to prove it,

00:44:10well,

00:44:10I can bring people

00:44:11to say I wasn't

00:44:12in there.

00:44:13I don't doubt

00:44:13that you could

00:44:14bring people

00:44:14to say all sorts

00:44:15of things.

00:44:16Could we believe

00:44:17them either?

00:44:18Mr. Lloyd,

00:44:19that is not

00:44:19a proper question.

00:44:20We cannot have

00:44:21an attack like that

00:44:22on this man's character.

00:44:23My Lord,

00:44:23I really don't think

00:44:24that I need

00:44:25to attack his character.

00:44:25You will withdraw

00:44:26that remark,

00:44:27please, Mr. Lloyd.

00:44:27Members of the jury

00:44:28will disregard

00:44:28that last remark

00:44:29of counsel.

00:44:30If your Lordship

00:44:31so rules,

00:44:31I withdraw it.

00:44:34Very well,

00:44:34go on.

00:44:35Well,

00:44:35my Lord,

00:44:35I believe I've already

00:44:36established everything

00:44:37that needs to be

00:44:37established about

00:44:38this gentleman's

00:44:39credibility.

00:44:40No further questions.

00:44:40I'm sorry,

00:44:43Mr. Lloyd,

00:44:43that really won't do,

00:44:45you know.

00:44:45Your Lord?

00:44:45You have not

00:44:46established what

00:44:46you are trying

00:44:47to imply about

00:44:48Mr. Cousins'

00:44:50credibility.

00:44:51Now,

00:44:51let us set the

00:44:52record straight.

00:44:53He has admitted

00:44:53not always telling

00:44:54the truth to the

00:44:55police,

00:44:55yes.

00:44:56He has admitted

00:44:57making an unofficial

00:44:58payment to the

00:44:58gate man.

00:44:59He has admitted

00:44:59dumping toxic

00:45:01materials in the

00:45:02quarry in question

00:45:03before.

00:45:03It was an offence

00:45:04under the act.

00:45:05But you cannot

00:45:06claim that he,

00:45:07you have established

00:45:08that he is lying

00:45:09to us under oath.

00:45:10It is of course

00:45:11open to you

00:45:12to suggest

00:45:12that that is

00:45:13so,

00:45:13but you cannot

00:45:14claim to have

00:45:14established it

00:45:15in the sense

00:45:16of his admitting

00:45:16it.

00:45:17I bow to your

00:45:18Lordship's more

00:45:18precise definition

00:45:19and lucidity.

00:45:20I have not

00:45:21established it.

00:45:22I do of course

00:45:23suggest that he's

00:45:24lying in his teeth.

00:45:25Mr. Parsons,

00:45:28do you wish to

00:45:29cross-examine?

00:45:30Yes, I do indeed,

00:45:31my Lord.

00:45:31Go ahead.

00:45:33Now, Mr. Cousins,

00:45:35you say that Mr. Mays

00:45:37did not tell you

00:45:38that the load in

00:45:39question was toxic.

00:45:40No.

00:45:41But he wanted it

00:45:42disposed of as cheaply

00:45:43as possible.

00:45:44Now, with all your

00:45:45legal advice, Mr. Cousins,

00:45:48do you know what

00:45:48conspiracy is?

00:45:49Well, yes.

00:45:50Yes, conspiracy to

00:45:51break the law, I mean.

00:45:52Now, if you'd all

00:45:53conspired to do that,

00:45:54you'd want to hide

00:45:56the fact, wouldn't you?

00:45:57You see, I put it to

00:45:58that Mr. Mays, in fact,

00:46:00did tell you the load

00:46:01was toxic and that

00:46:02you agreed to dump

00:46:04it in said inquiry

00:46:05knowing it was toxic

00:46:07but thinking no one

00:46:08would find out about it.

00:46:09He never told us.

00:46:11Well, we've only

00:46:11your word for that yet

00:46:12and for what was said

00:46:14at the first meeting.

00:46:15You see, aren't you

00:46:16all, in fact, lying,

00:46:18each to save your

00:46:19own skin?

00:46:20No.

00:46:22Now, £200, you say,

00:46:26would be the right price

00:46:27if this had been

00:46:28disposed of legally?

00:46:30It would have been

00:46:30right, yeah.

00:46:31Yes.

00:46:32Now, such a high figure,

00:46:33one's lost sight of

00:46:34the other one,

00:46:35the one in which

00:46:36you actually did

00:46:37the job for.

00:46:39£40, you said.

00:46:40£40, yeah.

00:46:41Yes.

00:46:42Now, that's a high price

00:46:43too, isn't it?

00:46:44Well, not...

00:46:45For non-toxics.

00:46:46Not for liquids.

00:46:47I mean, nobody wants

00:46:48them.

00:46:48I put it to you

00:46:49that it's a high figure.

00:46:51Well, but, no,

00:46:52that's what I just said.

00:46:53Not for toxic liquids.

00:46:54Nobody wants them.

00:46:55Only you, eh?

00:46:56For you, it was

00:46:56a fair price.

00:46:58Fair?

00:46:59Yes, a fair price

00:47:00even for toxic liquids.

00:47:01If you thought

00:47:02you could dump them

00:47:03with hundreds of

00:47:04thousands of other

00:47:04gallons of liquids,

00:47:05then no one would

00:47:06notice.

00:47:07You've got a nasty

00:47:08mind you have,

00:47:09haven't you?

00:47:10Hmm.

00:47:10Now, when you got

00:47:13to the quarry,

00:47:14you found the part

00:47:15in which you'd

00:47:15previously dumped

00:47:16toxics was shut

00:47:17off, didn't you?

00:47:18Yeah, it was shut.

00:47:19Yes, and you hadn't

00:47:19known that before.

00:47:21I knew that already.

00:47:22You're quite sure

00:47:22about that.

00:47:23Yeah.

00:47:24You took this liquid

00:47:26from a tank you'd

00:47:27known before had

00:47:28always been used

00:47:29for toxics.

00:47:30You dumped it

00:47:31in an area you'd

00:47:32previously dumped

00:47:33toxics in.

00:47:34You'd even bribed

00:47:35the gateman to keep

00:47:36quiet about it.

00:47:37And you're asking

00:47:38the jury to believe

00:47:40that story?

00:47:41Yes, I am.

00:47:46Now, before you

00:47:47set up your own

00:47:48firm, Mr. Cousins,

00:47:49where were you

00:47:49employed?

00:47:51I was at the

00:47:51Stonebridge Waste

00:47:53Disposal.

00:47:53Yes, as a lorry

00:47:54driver.

00:47:55Yes.

00:47:55Now, can you

00:47:56please tell us

00:47:57the circumstances

00:47:58of your dismissal?

00:47:59I was not

00:48:00dismissed.

00:48:00I left.

00:48:02Well, you see,

00:48:03Mr. Cousins,

00:48:04my information is

00:48:05that you were

00:48:05dismissed.

00:48:06Oh.

00:48:06Now, is it not

00:48:07true that before

00:48:08the 1972 act,

00:48:10lorry drivers at

00:48:11Stonebridge were

00:48:12paid two pounds

00:48:14for every load

00:48:15of poisonous waste

00:48:16dumped in

00:48:17unlicensed sites

00:48:18and twenty pounds

00:48:19for every new dump

00:48:21they could find

00:48:22to tip it on?

00:48:22That's got nothing

00:48:23to do with this

00:48:24case.

00:48:24Now, is it also

00:48:25not a fact that

00:48:26in April 1971,

00:48:28you took part

00:48:29in an unofficial

00:48:30strike of lorry drivers

00:48:32to force Stonebridge

00:48:33to pay higher

00:48:34backhandlers than

00:48:35that?

00:48:35My lord!

00:48:37No further question.

00:48:38Look, we was right.

00:48:39It was a dangerous

00:48:40job.

00:48:41It wasn't illegal,

00:48:43but it was dangerous

00:48:44and we needed

00:48:44paying for it.

00:48:45The case of the Queen

00:49:06against Cousins,

00:49:07Cousins and Mays

00:49:08will be resumed

00:49:09tomorrow in the Crown Court.

00:49:10None of the accused

00:49:27denies that 2,000 gallons

00:49:29of highly poisonous liquid

00:49:30was dumped in an

00:49:31unlicensed tip in

00:49:33Seddon Quarry near

00:49:33Fullchester in

00:49:34contravention of last

00:49:35year's Deposit of

00:49:36Poisonous Waste Act.

00:49:37A couple of contractors,

00:49:39Albert and Martha

00:49:40Cousins, who deposited

00:49:41the liquid, claim they

00:49:42were told it was

00:49:42harmless.

00:49:43Michael Mays, the

00:49:44transport manager of

00:49:45Fullchester Metals,

00:49:46however, claims he told

00:49:47them that it was toxic

00:49:48and they assured him

00:49:49they would dispose of

00:49:50it legally.

00:49:51The prosecution has

00:49:52suggested there is a

00:49:53further possibility,

00:49:54that all are guilty

00:49:55of conspiracy.

00:49:57Albert Cousins is being

00:49:58re-examined by his

00:49:59counsel, Miss Gibson.

00:50:00Mr. Cousins, have you

00:50:02dumped any toxics in

00:50:04the quarry since the

00:50:05Act?

00:50:05No.

00:50:06Now, how long has the

00:50:07toxics part been shut

00:50:09off?

00:50:09Well, months anyway.

00:50:11Sir, it can hardly have

00:50:12been a surprise to you

00:50:13to find it shut.

00:50:14I knew it already.

00:50:16Thank you, Mr. Cousins.

00:50:18Well, Mr. Cousins,

00:50:19you may return to the

00:50:19dock.

00:50:20Thank you, my lord.

00:50:22I call Mrs. Martha

00:50:23Edith Cousins.

00:50:26Watch the two geezers.

00:50:27What is your religion?

00:50:34A C of E.

00:50:35Take the testament in

00:50:36your right hand and read

00:50:37aloud the words on this

00:50:38card.

00:50:39I swear by almighty God

00:50:41that the evidence I shall

00:50:42give shall be the truth,

00:50:44the whole truth, and

00:50:45nothing but the truth.

00:50:48You are Mrs. Martha

00:50:49Edith Cousins?

00:50:51Yes.

00:50:51And you live at 15

00:50:52Hathaway Crescent,

00:50:53Fulchester?

00:50:54Yes.

00:50:55Mrs. Cousins, how many

00:50:57children do you have?

00:50:58Four girls, three boys.

00:50:59A family of nine?

00:51:01Well, there wasn't all

00:51:02that birth control when

00:51:03we were first keeping

00:51:03our feet warm of a

00:51:04winter's night.

00:51:05And you still find time

00:51:07to help your husband

00:51:07with his business?

00:51:08Oh, don't get tired

00:51:09just by being up all

00:51:11day.

00:51:11Do you all help your

00:51:12children too?

00:51:14If they want to eat,

00:51:15then that works gets

00:51:16fed till they leave

00:51:17home.

00:51:17Then they've got to buy

00:51:18their own toothpaste.

00:51:20My two eldest are

00:51:20married now.

00:51:21A loving and very

00:51:22close family.

00:51:23Yeah, that's right.

00:51:24Mrs. Cousins, up to

00:51:26this time, have any of

00:51:27you ever been in any

00:51:28trouble with the law?

00:51:29Oh, I'd have the skin

00:51:30off their bums.

00:51:31Your husbands included?

00:51:33Oh, that'd be a fair

00:51:34match, that would.

00:51:35I've never had a stand-up

00:51:36knock-downer with him.

00:51:38No, I handle him a bit

00:51:39different.

00:51:40How do you handle him?

00:51:42Well, he likes his feed,

00:51:44likes a bit of cuddle.

00:51:45He steps out of line,

00:51:47and the world goes all

00:51:48cold and hungry on him.

00:51:50Right, Albert?

00:51:50Is he warm and well-fed

00:51:53presently?

00:51:54Fat as butter, if it's any

00:51:56of your business.

00:51:57You've no complaints

00:51:57against him?

00:51:58Oh, he's all right.

00:51:59Whatever the neighbours

00:52:00say.

00:52:01Oh, what do the neighbours

00:52:02say?

00:52:03My old man's a dustman.

00:52:05Well, I suppose he is,

00:52:06really.

00:52:07I wouldn't swap him,

00:52:08though.

00:52:08Mrs. Cousins, would you

00:52:10lie for him?

00:52:11Damn right I would.

00:52:13You would?

00:52:14Well, wouldn't you?

00:52:14Wouldn't you lie for

00:52:15your old man?

00:52:16But are you lying for him

00:52:18now?

00:52:18No.

00:52:19Or for yourself?

00:52:21No.

00:52:23Now, you were present

00:52:24during the whole meeting

00:52:25with Mr. Mays?

00:52:27All the time.

00:52:28Did he at any time tell you

00:52:30that the liquid waste

00:52:31was toxic?

00:52:32No, he said it wasn't

00:52:33toxic, and he showed us

00:52:34that list.

00:52:35Mr. Mays clearly told you

00:52:37that the 2,000 gallons

00:52:38of waste in his tank

00:52:40was not toxic,

00:52:41not notifiable,

00:52:42and harmless.

00:52:43Yeah, that's right.

00:52:44She's lying.

00:52:45What you're calling

00:52:46a liar, mister?

00:52:47I'll get back to you

00:52:48in a minute.

00:52:49You mustn't hold

00:52:50a conversation

00:52:51with the other defendant

00:52:52when you're giving

00:52:52evidence, Mrs. Cousins.

00:52:54Giving himself airs,

00:52:56nasty little smoothie.

00:52:57Now, when Mr. Mays

00:52:58told you the waste

00:52:59was not toxic,

00:53:00had you any reason

00:53:01to think that he might

00:53:02not be telling the truth?

00:53:03No, not then.

00:53:05Now I wouldn't believe him

00:53:06if he told me

00:53:06water's wet.

00:53:08It didn't occur to you

00:53:09that he might claim

00:53:10it was harmless

00:53:11to get you to carry

00:53:12it away more cheaply?

00:53:13What for?

00:53:14They ain't exactly

00:53:14all on the bleeding

00:53:15bread line,

00:53:16any of them,

00:53:16are they?

00:53:17Can you remember

00:53:18exactly what Mr. Mays

00:53:20said to you?

00:53:21Well, not exactly.

00:53:23Do you know

00:53:24what you were saying

00:53:24on April the 14th?

00:53:26I mean, you talk

00:53:27but you don't reckon

00:53:28to make notes.

00:53:29He said it wasn't toxic

00:53:31and he showed us

00:53:32that list of what

00:53:33he said it was.

00:53:34Word for word,

00:53:36I can't remember

00:53:36no more than he can.

00:53:38Ordinary class

00:53:39four chemicals,

00:53:41he said.

00:53:42Thank you,

00:53:42Mrs. Cousins.

00:53:43Mrs. Cousins.

00:53:46Oh, you're the

00:53:46sarky one,

00:53:47ain't you?

00:53:49Mrs. Cousins,

00:53:50did you see

00:53:51this list

00:53:52that you claim

00:53:53Mr. Mays showed you?

00:53:54I've just said so.

00:53:55Where did he keep it?

00:53:57I don't know

00:53:57where he keeps it,

00:53:59he had it.

00:53:59Would it surprise you

00:54:00to learn that Mr. Mays

00:54:01did not have such a list?

00:54:02No, no,

00:54:03it wouldn't surprise me

00:54:04whatever he said.

00:54:05Well then,

00:54:05can you remember

00:54:06any of the chemicals

00:54:08or substances

00:54:09on this list

00:54:09that he's supposed

00:54:10to have shown you?

00:54:11Any of their names?

00:54:12No.

00:54:13Why not?

00:54:14Well,

00:54:15when I was taking

00:54:16all my degrees

00:54:17at Oxford and Cambridge,

00:54:18they never taught me

00:54:19no chemistry.

00:54:21You're saying

00:54:22that you don't know

00:54:23the names

00:54:23of any non-notifiable

00:54:24substances?

00:54:25Yeah,

00:54:26I'm saying that.

00:54:27Do you know

00:54:27the names

00:54:27of any toxic chemicals

00:54:29then?

00:54:29No,

00:54:30and I don't know

00:54:30the names

00:54:31of the Arsenal

00:54:32football team

00:54:32neither.

00:54:35But Mrs. Cousins,

00:54:35you did say

00:54:36that you helped

00:54:37your husband

00:54:37in his business.

00:54:39Yeah,

00:54:39I help him.

00:54:40And it is his business,

00:54:41isn't it,

00:54:41to know the difference

00:54:42between harmless

00:54:43and toxic waste

00:54:44before he disposes

00:54:45of it safely?

00:54:46His business,

00:54:47not mine.

00:54:47But you help him,

00:54:48you go along

00:54:48to meetings with him,

00:54:49you talk prices

00:54:50and turns.

00:54:51Well,

00:54:51we don't handle

00:54:52toxics now.

00:54:53And perhaps

00:54:54that's just as well

00:54:55for the rest of us

00:54:56if you can't

00:54:56recognise any of them.

00:54:58I said you

00:54:58was sarky.

00:55:00Now,

00:55:00you stopped handling

00:55:01dangerous waste

00:55:02when the act

00:55:03came into force.

00:55:03Well,

00:55:04we ain't got no tip.

00:55:05And if you haven't

00:55:06got a tip of your own,

00:55:07you're out of business?

00:55:07Near enough.

00:55:08With anything

00:55:09that's even mildly toxic.

00:55:10That's another thing

00:55:11wrong with the act,

00:55:12isn't it?

00:55:12What it?

00:55:12Well,

00:55:13tips.

00:55:13What about them?

00:55:14Well,

00:55:14there ain't all that many

00:55:15highly suitable.

00:55:16Tips classified

00:55:17as highly suitable

00:55:18for toxic waste.

00:55:19Well,

00:55:19right.

00:55:19Uses up all the best tips

00:55:20and squeezes us out.

00:55:22You don't like the act?

00:55:23Well,

00:55:24all it's saying is

00:55:25don't tell us

00:55:26your troubles.

00:55:26We can't help.

00:55:27Just keep it

00:55:28out of the way

00:55:28of the public.

00:55:29If you ain't got

00:55:30nowhere to stick

00:55:31your rubbish,

00:55:31hard luck.

00:55:32It squeezes you out.

00:55:33And you don't have

00:55:34a tip of your own,

00:55:35do you?

00:55:36Only the kid's

00:55:36toy cupboard.

00:55:38You dislike

00:55:39and disapprove

00:55:40of the law.

00:55:41Oh,

00:55:41I don't know

00:55:42about that.

00:55:42Enough to ignore it?

00:55:43No.

00:55:44But your husband

00:55:44has said that you

00:55:45don't earn money

00:55:46if you've got a tanker

00:55:46standing around idle,

00:55:48do you?

00:55:48No.

00:55:49And there must be

00:55:49a great temptation

00:55:50to carry a doubtful load

00:55:52or two.

00:55:52The temptation is,

00:55:54mister,

00:55:54to give you a mouthful

00:55:55but I ain't doing

00:55:56that neither.

00:55:56And afterwards,

00:55:57of course,

00:55:57you would stick

00:55:57by your husband's story,

00:55:59stick by your husband

00:56:00and support his story.

00:56:01No.

00:56:01But you've already

00:56:02admitted that you would.

00:56:03You said that you'd

00:56:03lie for him.

00:56:04I also said I ain't,

00:56:06though.

00:56:12Oh.

00:56:14No,

00:56:14no cross-examination,

00:56:15my lord.

00:56:16No re-examination,

00:56:17my lord.

00:56:17Thank you,

00:56:18Mrs. Cousins.

00:56:19You may return to the dock.

00:56:20I can't say as I

00:56:21it was a pleasure.

00:56:22I call Michael

00:56:23Alistair Hayes.

00:56:30Frankly,

00:56:30it all seems like

00:56:31some nightmare.

00:56:32That dreadful pair,

00:56:33people laughing

00:56:34at her rudeness,

00:56:36both of them

00:56:36snaring me

00:56:37in a net of lies.

00:56:39This has been

00:56:39hanging over me

00:56:40for weeks.

00:56:41I'm suspended

00:56:41from my job.

00:56:43Listening to them,

00:56:45I almost believe them.

00:56:46How can I prove the truth?

00:56:49I've racked my brains.

00:56:51I can't see how to prove it.

00:56:52Let's try and leave it

00:56:53to the jury's good sense.

00:56:54Yes.

00:56:56I'm sorry.

00:56:57I can hear my own voice.

00:56:58I've become

00:57:00over-emotional.

00:57:03I've been living with this

00:57:04for weeks.

00:57:06With them,

00:57:06it's just,

00:57:07what can we say

00:57:08to get ourselves

00:57:08out of trouble?

00:57:10With me,

00:57:11it's my life.

00:57:13I can sympathise.

00:57:14Now,

00:57:14yours is an important

00:57:16and responsible job

00:57:17for a large company.

00:57:18If I keep it.

00:57:19Would it be impertinent

00:57:20to ask what sort

00:57:21of a salary you earn?

00:57:225,150 pounds a year.

00:57:24A very responsible job.

00:57:26Yes.

00:57:26Now,

00:57:27this board meeting

00:57:27which you were called before,

00:57:29did you really believe

00:57:30that you might be dismissed

00:57:31if you failed to reduce

00:57:32your department's costs?

00:57:34Not actually dismissed,

00:57:35of course,

00:57:36but it was very strongly

00:57:37put to me.

00:57:39It's why I use

00:57:39the Cousins again.

00:57:40Because they would give you

00:57:41a cheaper price?

00:57:42Yes,

00:57:42and a few days before,

00:57:43Mrs Cousins had telephoned me

00:57:44to ask why they had lost

00:57:46the job

00:57:46of clearing out

00:57:47our toxics tank.

00:57:50That's what made me think of them,

00:57:51put them in my mind.

00:57:52She phoned you.

00:57:53What did you tell her?

00:57:55I told her it was because

00:57:56they weren't set up properly

00:57:58to handle toxics

00:57:59since the act became law.

00:58:01She said,

00:58:02don't worry about that.

00:58:03We can handle

00:58:04anything you've got.

00:58:06I remembered that conversation

00:58:07when the tank was full

00:58:08and I telephoned them

00:58:10and asked them in for a talk.

00:58:11This was now

00:58:11the 14th of April?

00:58:13Yes.

00:58:13It all happened so quickly.

00:58:15They were very keen

00:58:16to get the work again.

00:58:18He, Albert Cousins,

00:58:19has a tanker

00:58:20that was underemployed

00:58:21with depreciation

00:58:22and higher purchase

00:58:23on a vehicle like that.

00:58:24You can't leave it lying around.

00:58:25They came with a double.

00:58:26Now,

00:58:26why was there no witness

00:58:27to this talk?

00:58:28Where was your secretary,

00:58:30for example?

00:58:31On leave,

00:58:31I'm afraid,

00:58:31compassionate leave

00:58:32because her mother was a...

00:58:34I gave her leave.

00:58:35What was said at the meeting?

00:58:37Well,

00:58:37there was no question

00:58:38of my telling them

00:58:39the contents were

00:58:40non-notifiable class four.

00:58:43I said,

00:58:44it's the old

00:58:452,000-gallon tank.

00:58:47It's near enough

00:58:48full with toxics.

00:58:49How much to dispose of it.

00:58:51That's what I said.

00:58:51You said full

00:58:52with toxics.

00:58:53I did.

00:58:53I swear I did.

00:58:54How can I prove that?

00:58:55Now,

00:58:56this list you're supposed

00:58:56to have shown them,

00:58:57the list of chemicals

00:58:59and so on,

00:58:59exempted from the act.

00:59:00I haven't even got a list

00:59:01like that.

00:59:02They've made that up.

00:59:03Now,

00:59:03you must have had

00:59:04such a list,

00:59:04though.

00:59:05It's your job,

00:59:05isn't it,

00:59:06to know the difference

00:59:07between what's toxic

00:59:08and what isn't.

00:59:08Yes,

00:59:08exactly.

00:59:09It is my job.

00:59:11I deal with chemicals

00:59:12all day and every day.

00:59:13I don't need a list.

00:59:15I know it.

00:59:17I had a list

00:59:18when the act first

00:59:19became law,

00:59:19but it's been law

00:59:20a long time now

00:59:21and I don't even know

00:59:23what happened to it.

00:59:25My reference department

00:59:26would have a copy

00:59:27if ever I did need one.

00:59:28Yes,

00:59:29of course.

00:59:29Now,

00:59:30what did Mr and Mrs Cousins

00:59:31reply when you asked

00:59:32them for their price?

00:59:33They said 40 pounds.

00:59:34They said it straight off.

00:59:36They'd already talked

00:59:37about what they were

00:59:37going to quote.

00:59:37I asked them

00:59:40how they could do it

00:59:41so cheaply.

00:59:42They said it was

00:59:43a special price

00:59:44because they needed

00:59:45the work again,

00:59:46but they had a legal,

00:59:48authorised tip

00:59:49and they'd take care

00:59:50of everything properly.

00:59:51Did you ask them

00:59:52where this tip was?

00:59:53Yes,

00:59:53and I wasn't surprised

00:59:54when they said

00:59:54that was their secret.

00:59:55Why?

00:59:56Well,

00:59:57if they'd had such a tip,

00:59:58it would have been

00:59:58worth money to them.

01:00:00They wouldn't be likely

01:00:00to tell other people,

01:00:01people who might use it up.

01:00:03Now,

01:00:03did you discuss

01:00:03proper notification

01:00:04of the local authorities

01:00:05concerned?

01:00:06Yes.

01:00:07And they said

01:00:08that they'd take care

01:00:09of everything.

01:00:10I don't want you

01:00:11to worry about that,

01:00:12Mr Mays,

01:00:13Albert Cousins said.

01:00:14You don't have to

01:00:15think about that.

01:00:16That's what we're for.

01:00:17We just want you happy.

01:00:19Their words.

01:00:19You do remember

01:00:20that conversation

01:00:20word for word?

01:00:22I should have had

01:00:23every chance to remember it.

01:00:25I think every word

01:00:26is tattooed on my brain.

01:00:28We just want you happy.

01:00:30And you had no suspicion

01:00:31at all?

01:00:32I wasn't suspicious,

01:00:33no.

01:00:33Why should I be?

01:00:35They'd been working

01:00:36on and off

01:00:36for the company

01:00:37for years.

01:00:37I had no reason

01:00:38to think they'd be

01:00:39so stupid.

01:00:39And they emptied

01:00:40the tanker

01:00:40the very same day?

01:00:42Yes.

01:00:43It was none of my doing.

01:00:44Cousins simply came back

01:00:46that afternoon,

01:00:47pumped out the tank

01:00:48and took it away

01:00:48without saying a word

01:00:49to anyone.

01:00:50There wasn't even time

01:00:51to treat the contents.

01:00:51You mean the contents

01:00:52of the tank

01:00:53should have been

01:00:53made less toxic?

01:00:54Yes,

01:00:54before you dump

01:00:55anything like that,

01:00:56a chemist has to be

01:00:56brought in to see

01:00:57the record of contents

01:00:59and see what can be done

01:01:00to make it less toxic.

01:01:01I'd have laid that on

01:01:03when Cousins asked

01:01:05my permission

01:01:05to empty it.

01:01:06But he came back

01:01:07that very same day.

01:01:08Now,

01:01:08why didn't you stop him

01:01:09when he came back?

01:01:10I wasn't there,

01:01:11unfortunately.

01:01:12I was out on a call

01:01:12for the company.

01:01:14He had no business

01:01:15emptying a tank

01:01:16before he had an okay.

01:01:17He knew that.

01:01:17Cousins knew

01:01:18he should have had

01:01:19your permission

01:01:19before pumping it off.

01:01:20Yes,

01:01:21otherwise how could he know

01:01:22it had been checked

01:01:23and treated?

01:01:23And he jumped the gun?

01:01:24Yes.

01:01:26Well,

01:01:26to summarise then,

01:01:26Mr Mays,

01:01:27Mr and Mrs Cousins

01:01:29gave you clearly

01:01:29to understand

01:01:30that they had

01:01:31proper facilities

01:01:32legally

01:01:32to dispose of the liquid.

01:01:34Yes.

01:01:34And because

01:01:35Fulchester Metals

01:01:35had done business

01:01:36with them over a period

01:01:37of time,

01:01:38you had no reason

01:01:38to doubt their word?

01:01:39I believed them.

01:01:41And you had no reason

01:01:42to disbelieve them

01:01:43when they said

01:01:43that they would take care

01:01:44of notifying

01:01:45the local authorities?

01:01:47I believed them.

01:01:48That was the only

01:01:49mistake I made.

01:01:51Thank you very much,

01:01:52Mr Mays.

01:02:07Now,

01:02:08Mr Mays,

01:02:08you say your secretary

01:02:09was away on leave

01:02:11when you had your meeting

01:02:11with the cousins?

01:02:12Yes.

01:02:13And in such an important

01:02:15and responsible job

01:02:16with such a large firm,

01:02:17you were given

01:02:17no replacement,

01:02:19no temporary.

01:02:20She was only away

01:02:21for two days,

01:02:21I think.

01:02:22She doesn't sit

01:02:23in my office anyway.

01:02:24I presume she was

01:02:25not on leave

01:02:25when Mrs Cousins

01:02:26is supposed to have

01:02:27phoned you,

01:02:28phoned to ask

01:02:28why they no longer

01:02:29had your contract.

01:02:31No, she was not

01:02:31on leave then.

01:02:32Good.

01:02:33And there is one part

01:02:34of your story

01:02:35that we can check.

01:02:36She can confirm

01:02:37that there was

01:02:37such a call.

01:02:39My secretary

01:02:39doesn't listen

01:02:40to my telephone calls.

01:02:41Your secretary

01:02:42doesn't seem

01:02:42to do anything

01:02:43very much.

01:02:44Was it she

01:02:45who lost

01:02:46your list

01:02:46of exempt chemicals?

01:02:48I've explained

01:02:49about the list.

01:02:49And you really

01:02:50expect us to believe

01:02:51that?

01:02:52Mr Mays,

01:02:52do you seriously

01:02:53expect us to believe

01:02:54that a man in your position

01:02:56answers his own telephone,

01:02:57has a secretary

01:02:58who is rarely around

01:02:59when needed,

01:03:01and deals personally

01:03:02with every detail

01:03:03of a trifling

01:03:0340 pound contract?

01:03:06It can only be

01:03:06that you dare not

01:03:07call any witness

01:03:08to support your story

01:03:09because you made

01:03:09very sure

01:03:10there would be none.

01:03:11That's a monstrous

01:03:11suggestion.

01:03:12Oh Lord!

01:03:13Miss Gibson,

01:03:13it has been

01:03:14quite clearly established

01:03:15that there is

01:03:16no useful witness

01:03:17who can be called.

01:03:19Now what you are saying

01:03:19has got very

01:03:20prejudicial implications.

01:03:22Very well,

01:03:22I withdraw it,

01:03:23my Lord.

01:03:23He cannot call

01:03:24any witness.

01:03:25It is still

01:03:26quite extraordinary.

01:03:28I have no further

01:03:29questions.

01:03:30Mr Parsons?

01:03:32My Lord,

01:03:33Miss Gibson

01:03:33seems to have

01:03:34preempted so much

01:03:35of my cross-examination

01:03:36there seems little

01:03:37left for me to do.

01:03:38I'm sure you will

01:03:39manage,

01:03:39Mr Parsons.

01:03:40Yes,

01:03:40I'm sure I shall,

01:03:41my Lord.

01:03:43Now,

01:03:43Mr Major,

01:03:44you see,

01:03:45one of you is

01:03:45telling the truth

01:03:46and one of you

01:03:46is making up a story.

01:03:47I'm telling the truth.

01:03:49You both sound

01:03:49so convincing.

01:03:52Let me make up

01:03:53a story for you

01:03:54and see if you

01:03:54prefer it.

01:03:56Now,

01:03:57could the conversation

01:03:58at the first meeting

01:03:59in your office

01:03:59possibly,

01:04:00possibly,

01:04:01have gone something

01:04:01like this?

01:04:02You say to

01:04:03Cousins,

01:04:04Albert,

01:04:05I'm having trouble

01:04:05for my boss

01:04:06to cut costs

01:04:07and you're having

01:04:09trouble making

01:04:09your tanker

01:04:10pay for itself.

01:04:11Why don't we

01:04:12get together?

01:04:13How about a quick

01:04:14£40 for emptying

01:04:15the toxic tank

01:04:16and no questions asked?

01:04:17No,

01:04:18that's not true.

01:04:18No?

01:04:19But you did tell them

01:04:20it was toxic?

01:04:21Yes.

01:04:22Yes.

01:04:23Well then,

01:04:23what more logical

01:04:25than some mutually

01:04:26agreeable arrangement?

01:04:27It wasn't like that

01:04:28at all.

01:04:30You honestly believe

01:04:32they could make

01:04:32any sort of profit

01:04:33at all

01:04:34out of a price

01:04:35of just £40?

01:04:37That was up to them.

01:04:38Hmm.

01:04:40You knew

01:04:40said inquiry

01:04:41was where your firm

01:04:42had dumped toxic waste

01:04:43for years before the act.

01:04:45Did it honestly

01:04:46never occur to you

01:04:48that of course

01:04:49that that was

01:04:49the easy way,

01:04:50that of course

01:04:51that is where

01:04:52the Cousins

01:04:53would tip that liquid?

01:04:54No.

01:04:55Or did you suggest

01:04:55it yourself?

01:04:57No,

01:04:57certainly not.

01:04:57That would have been

01:04:58quite against the law.

01:04:59Yes.

01:05:00It would,

01:05:01wouldn't it?

01:05:02No further questions,

01:05:03Mr Mays.

01:05:04You do know

01:05:05what conspiracy is,

01:05:06don't you,

01:05:07Mr Mays?

01:05:08Yes.

01:05:09You know how serious

01:05:10it can be in law?

01:05:11Yes.

01:05:12Now did you make

01:05:13one penny of profit

01:05:14out of this yourself?

01:05:16No.

01:05:17Were you ever really

01:05:18at risk of losing

01:05:19your job?

01:05:20No.

01:05:21So is it likely

01:05:22that you would enter

01:05:23into a conspiracy

01:05:24with people like

01:05:25Mr and Mrs Cousins?

01:05:26No.

01:05:27It would be incredible.

01:05:28Yes,

01:05:28that's exactly what it is,

01:05:29incredible.

01:05:31Now have you told us

01:05:32one word

01:05:33from the witness box

01:05:35which was not

01:05:36the absolute truth?

01:05:38I swear I haven't.

01:05:41Thank you very much,

01:05:41Mr Mays.

01:05:42Bleeding liar!

01:05:43Now, let me recall

01:05:48for you,

01:05:49members of the jury,

01:05:50what Mr Carter

01:05:52and his colleagues

01:05:52found when they

01:05:54analysed the waste

01:05:55dumped and sent

01:05:56and quarry.

01:05:56they found chromic acid,

01:05:59cyanide, mercury,

01:06:01salts of cadmium,

01:06:03zinc oxides,

01:06:04zinc sulfates,

01:06:06lead and nickel.

01:06:08Now, Mr Albert Cousins,

01:06:10who is no amateur

01:06:11at waste disposal,

01:06:13says he thought

01:06:13he was carrying

01:06:14suds oil.

01:06:17Now I'll say no more

01:06:18about that.

01:06:19Now, lastly,

01:06:21let us consider

01:06:22Mr Mays.

01:06:24He asked us to believe

01:06:25that the Cousins

01:06:26were going to do

01:06:27a £200 job for him

01:06:29for just £40

01:06:30and do it legally.

01:06:32Now he knew

01:06:33that they had

01:06:34no site of their own.

01:06:36He knew

01:06:36there was a real

01:06:37shortage of

01:06:38highly suitable sites

01:06:39and he knew

01:06:41that for years

01:06:42before the act,

01:06:44the Cousins

01:06:44had tipped toxics

01:06:45at Seddon Quarry.

01:06:47Now he also says

01:06:48that Cousins

01:06:49had no right

01:06:50to empty the toxic tank

01:06:51without his permission.

01:06:53Therefore,

01:06:53does he also ask us

01:06:55to believe

01:06:55that the Cousins

01:06:56could drive in

01:06:58to Fulchester Metrols,

01:06:59empty a toxic tank

01:07:01without authority

01:07:01and drive out again

01:07:03without being challenged?

01:07:08Now, ladies and gentlemen

01:07:09of the jury,

01:07:10we have seen

01:07:11the two factions

01:07:12of the defence

01:07:14trying desperately

01:07:15to discredit each other.

01:07:18Now, one of them

01:07:19must be lying

01:07:20and therefore

01:07:21one of them

01:07:22at least

01:07:23must be guilty.

01:07:24But I put it to you

01:07:25that the most likely

01:07:27explanation is

01:07:28that in fact

01:07:29all three are lying,

01:07:31that all three

01:07:32conspire together

01:07:34and that you will

01:07:36therefore find

01:07:37all three

01:07:38guilty of conspiracy.

01:07:40Now, moving on

01:07:47from the improbable

01:07:48charge of conspiracy.

01:07:51Ladies and gentlemen

01:07:52of the jury,

01:07:53you've just heard

01:07:53the stories

01:07:54of three very

01:07:54dissimilar people.

01:07:57There's Michael Mays

01:07:58on the one hand,

01:07:59an educated man,

01:08:00a shrewd man,

01:08:01an expert

01:08:02in all the intricacies

01:08:03of the world

01:08:04of business,

01:08:05on his own admission

01:08:06under considerable pressure

01:08:07from his superiors.

01:08:09With this being so,

01:08:10what more natural

01:08:11than that he should try

01:08:12to dispose of this waste

01:08:14in the manner

01:08:14least costly

01:08:15to his firm?

01:08:17Well, on the other hand,

01:08:18you have the cousins,

01:08:19Albert and Martha cousins,

01:08:21hard-working people,

01:08:22members of the jury,

01:08:23simply concerned

01:08:24in running

01:08:24a small family business.

01:08:27But we already know

01:08:28that decontamination

01:08:29of their tanker

01:08:30cost them more

01:08:31than the whole job

01:08:32was worth.

01:08:33Well, what are they

01:08:33to gain at that

01:08:34or any time

01:08:35from contravening

01:08:36the law?

01:08:38Now, finally,

01:08:39members of the jury,

01:08:40I want you to ask

01:08:41yourselves this question.

01:08:43How?

01:08:44In the course

01:08:45of a testimony

01:08:46quite remarkable

01:08:47for its lack

01:08:48of supportive facts,

01:08:49how was it possible

01:08:50for Mr. Mays

01:08:52to have not one witness,

01:08:54not one single

01:08:56item of proof

01:08:57of any kind

01:08:58to back up his story?

01:09:00One might almost feel

01:09:02the sympathy he asks for

01:09:03in these curious circumstances

01:09:05were not the explanation

01:09:07so obvious.

01:09:09He had no witness

01:09:10because what he claims

01:09:11did not take place.

01:09:14Ladies and gentlemen

01:09:15of the jury,

01:09:16you must think carefully.

01:09:18You must weigh up

01:09:19these factors.

01:09:20When you've done so,

01:09:21I think you'll find

01:09:22only one possible course

01:09:24open to you.

01:09:25You must find

01:09:26Albert and Martha cousins

01:09:27not guilty

01:09:28on both counts.

01:09:32The prosecution

01:09:35have suggested

01:09:35that Mr. Mays' motive

01:09:37for conspiracy

01:09:37was fear of the sack.

01:09:39But we've heard

01:09:40both the managing director

01:09:41of Fulchester Metals

01:09:42called by the prosecution

01:09:43and Mr. Mays himself

01:09:45positively and clearly deny

01:09:47that any threat

01:09:48of dismissal existed.

01:09:50Now, Mr. Mays

01:09:51had a well-paid

01:09:52and responsible job.

01:09:53He is obviously

01:09:54fully aware

01:09:55of the law

01:09:55and its penalties

01:09:56regarding waste disposal.

01:09:58And I put it to you

01:09:59that if he had conspired

01:10:01to break that law,

01:10:03he would have needed

01:10:03much stronger assurance

01:10:05that he wouldn't

01:10:05be found out.

01:10:07After all,

01:10:07the toxic waste

01:10:08was discovered

01:10:09almost immediately.

01:10:10In short,

01:10:11the prosecution's

01:10:11conspiracy theory

01:10:13suggests that Mr. Mays

01:10:14threw away his job

01:10:16in order to save his job.

01:10:18Illogical,

01:10:19even for them.

01:10:20Now, the suggestion

01:10:20that Mr. Mays

01:10:21conned the cousins

01:10:23is even more preposterous.

01:10:24We have been seriously

01:10:26asked to believe

01:10:27that Mr. Mays

01:10:28told a professional

01:10:30waste disposal man

01:10:31who had regularly

01:10:32handled thousands

01:10:33and thousands

01:10:34of gallons

01:10:35of toxic waste

01:10:36that a tank

01:10:37full of highly

01:10:38poisonous chemicals

01:10:39contained,

01:10:40in fact,

01:10:41suds oil

01:10:42and that this same

01:10:43professional

01:10:43waste disposal man

01:10:45didn't notice

01:10:46the difference

01:10:46when either filling

01:10:48or emptying

01:10:492,000 gallons of it.

01:10:52Michael Mays

01:10:52was only mistake

01:10:53was to trust this pair.

01:10:54And I would ask you

01:10:55to find this

01:10:56demonstrably sober

01:10:57and sincere man

01:10:58not guilty.

01:11:01As you know,

01:11:02the three accused

01:11:02are charged firstly

01:11:04with conspiring

01:11:05to deposit toxic waste

01:11:07in defiance

01:11:08of the Act of 1972,

01:11:11secondly,

01:11:11with unlawfully

01:11:12depositing that waste,

01:11:14and thirdly,

01:11:15with failing to give

01:11:16proper notices

01:11:17to the local authorities.

01:11:19Now, before

01:11:20you can convict

01:11:21on the conspiracy charge,

01:11:23you must be satisfied

01:11:24beyond all reasonable doubt

01:11:26that these three people

01:11:28did indeed

01:11:29agree together

01:11:30illegally

01:11:31to deposit

01:11:32that waste.

01:11:34Now, on the other

01:11:35two charges,

01:11:36separate considerations

01:11:37apply to Mr. and Mrs. Cousins

01:11:38on the one hand

01:11:39and to Mr. Mays

01:11:41on the other.

01:11:42Mr. and Mrs. Cousins

01:11:43agree that they

01:11:45deposited the waste

01:11:46and that they gave

01:11:46no proper notices,

01:11:47but it is their defence

01:11:49that they relied

01:11:50on information

01:11:51given them by Mr. Mays

01:11:53that the waste

01:11:53was not toxic

01:11:54and that they had

01:11:56no reason to believe

01:11:57that this information

01:11:58was false.

01:11:59Now, you must acquit them

01:12:00if you believe

01:12:01on all the probabilities

01:12:03that their story

01:12:04is true.

01:12:07Now, Mr. Mays

01:12:08admits that the waste

01:12:09was deposited

01:12:10and that no notices

01:12:11were given,

01:12:12but he personally

01:12:13did not deposit the waste.

01:12:14he is charged with

01:12:15causing it

01:12:17to be deposited

01:12:17and it is his case

01:12:19that he did not

01:12:21cause it to be deposited

01:12:22in said inquiry.

01:12:23He believed

01:12:24it would be deposited

01:12:25in a proper,

01:12:27safe place.

01:12:29Now, unless

01:12:30you believe

01:12:31beyond all reasonable doubt

01:12:33that his story

01:12:34is untrue,

01:12:35you must acquit him.

01:12:36Ladies and gentlemen

01:12:37of the jury,

01:12:38will you now retire

01:12:38to consider your verdict?

01:12:40All start.

01:12:44The Verdict

01:12:47Members of the jury,

01:12:51who shall speak

01:12:51as your foreman?

01:12:52I shall.

01:12:53Have you reached

01:12:53verdicts on all counts

01:12:54on which you are

01:12:55all agreed?

01:12:56Yes.

01:12:57On the charge of

01:12:58conspiring to unlawfully

01:12:59deposit poisonous waste,

01:13:00do you find the defendants

01:13:01guilty or not guilty?

01:13:03Guilty.

01:13:03Is that the verdict

01:13:04of you all?

01:13:05Yes.

01:13:05Do you find the defendant

01:13:06Albert Cousins

01:13:07guilty or not guilty

01:13:08of unlawfully

01:13:09depositing poisonous waste?

01:13:11Guilty.

01:13:11Is that the verdict

01:13:12of you all?

01:13:12Yes.

01:13:14Albert and Martha

01:13:17Cousins were also

01:13:18found guilty

01:13:18of depositing

01:13:19poisonous waste

01:13:20on land

01:13:20and Michael Mays

01:13:22was found guilty

01:13:23of causing

01:13:23poisonous waste

01:13:24to be deposited.

01:13:26Mr Justice Craig

01:13:26in giving sentence

01:13:27said that society

01:13:28had a growing concern

01:13:30that its quality of life

01:13:31should not be further

01:13:32polluted

01:13:32and that its laws

01:13:33to safeguard this

01:13:34should not be flouted.

01:13:36Although this was

01:13:37a new act,

01:13:37he was going to impose

01:13:38the maximum penalties.

01:13:40Albert Cousins

01:13:40was sentenced

01:13:41to 18 months in prison,

01:13:43Martha Cousins

01:13:43to three months

01:13:44and Michael Mays

01:13:45to three years.

01:13:46They were each fined

01:13:47£400

01:13:47for not notifying

01:13:49the proper authorities.

01:13:51Join us next week

01:13:51when our cameras

01:13:52will be back

01:13:52to bring you another case

01:13:53in the Crown Court.

01:13:54and Michael Mays

01:13:55to three months in prison.

01:14:00事情

01:14:03so could be right back.

01:14:05Bye.

01:14:06Bye.

01:14:15Bye.

01:14:16Bye.

01:14:17Bye.

01:14:18Bye.

Crown Court - My Old Man's a Dustman (1973)

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