- 6 hours ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00Steve Kilby!
00:07Jess, how are you? I'm good.
00:10I'm great.
00:11You grew up when the moon landings were actually happening.
00:15What was that like?
00:16Extraordinary. It was 1969.
00:19The Eagle has landed.
00:21And I remember it was during a maths class
00:24and we had a little TV up there
00:28and we watched them walk on the moon.
00:30That's one small step for man,
00:33one giant leap for mankind.
00:37It's strange we all just sat there and watched and went,
00:40oh, yeah, we've landed on the moon.
00:42And then he just went on with the day.
00:43Yeah. Isn't that bizarre?
00:44Back out in the playground,
00:46having your milk at 11 o'clock
00:48and trying to chat up a girl.
00:50It was a very different world.
00:53Lift off for a group of six women.
00:56Seeing as we are going out in reality.
00:59Back to the moon and beyond.
01:01How do we make sure that we do that well?
01:05We won't.
01:07Look, I know what you're thinking.
01:22It looks like I'm prepping for zero gravity.
01:24But no, I'm not leaving Earth.
01:27I'm making a sculpture.
01:30And I built this piece
01:33to celebrate one of Earth's smallest superheroes.
01:36The bee.
01:37The inspiration was helping people
01:39to stay connected to their own love for the environment.
01:42Because I've always believed
01:43that art can speak to the urgent things.
01:46Climate.
01:47Care.
01:48Connection.
01:49And I've spent most of my time
01:51focused on the space beneath the clouds.
01:53On the series Star Trek Strange New World,
01:55she stars as Nurse Chappell.
01:57God is rejecting this here.
01:59That is until I joined the cast
02:01of Star Trek Strange New Worlds.
02:03Because suddenly then I was surrounded by scientists,
02:07futurists, thinkers, people who opened my mind
02:11to what's happening up there.
02:13I can't wait for us to hear the sonic boom.
02:16Oh, the moon!
02:18You guys!
02:19I have to tell you, look at the moon!
02:21Yep.
02:22We are entering a new era of space exploration.
02:25Radio space!
02:27Woo!
02:28I'm not going to lie.
02:29It's a bit surreal.
02:31And also a little terrifying.
02:34This is not right.
02:35Something happened.
02:36We have lost this ship.
02:38We appear to have had a launch vehicle failure.
02:41But most of all, it's got me thinking
02:44how many resources went into
02:46putting these women into space.
02:48With our track record here on Earth,
02:51can we really go into space
02:53without totally messing it up?
02:56And can art help guide the way?
03:03I've heard you've got five albums coming out.
03:05Yeah.
03:06Not slowing down at all?
03:08I can't.
03:09I'm wired into this thing 24 hours a day.
03:13Why are we so obsessed with space, anyway?
03:16It's a planet in a spiritual sky.
03:18To find out, I've come to chat with one of Australia's greatest songwriters,
03:23Steve Kilby.
03:24You won't get something so you don't die
03:27I have no reservation
03:29You won't get something out of mine
03:33He's world-renowned as leader of the band The Church
03:37and co-writer of their smash hit Under the Milky Way.
03:41Under the Milky Way tonight
03:43With a musical imagination that's taken listeners to other times and other worlds
03:52I'm keen to hear why Steve thinks space has inspired so many artists.
03:58Space and sci-fi has been something that is fairly new to me
04:04And it seems that you share that interest but maybe it goes back a little further?
04:08All the way, yeah.
04:11I remember when I was 18, suddenly this genre of space rock just came out of nowhere.
04:17It was Hawkwind and Pink Floyd and then Ziggy Stardust.
04:29For the first time ever, musicians were exploring not just the idea of space but the feeling of space.
04:36That really got me in.
04:39And this band Hawkwind, have you ever listened to them?
04:41I have had a little listen to them, yeah.
04:43They're awesome.
04:44Yeah.
04:45So cool.
04:46Well, they were the first band I ever heard who were trying to give you the feeling of what space travel might be like.
04:58And it sort of had this, for want of a better word, druggie feeling.
05:03The stars and the comets are all translated as synthesizers and oscillators.
05:08It's like...
05:09It's like...
05:10Whoo!
05:11So exploring space imaginatively for you is more about the escapism of it?
05:20Yes.
05:21Yeah.
05:22In music and art, I'm not really interested in reality.
05:37I'm interested in this poetic aspect of space.
05:40And when you're immersed in this weird, spiritual, magical world, that's music that gives you ample opportunities for weirdness.
05:54Yeah.
05:55Yeah.
05:56Because space is weird.
05:57Different.
05:58So that's where I go back to find the things I want to give out to the audience.
06:02Yeah.
06:03This other world.
06:04Yeah.
06:05And you can definitely feel that expansive, otherworldly quality in the church's biggest song, Under the Milky Way.
06:16So what do you think about the song is so accessible, universally, connective?
06:23I think it's ambiguous.
06:24And I think ambiguity is a really interesting thing and it's one of the things I kind of specialise in.
06:30You've got this line of ambiguity.
06:34If you go too far and it's too specific, you're going to block a lot of people out.
06:39They're going to go, that can't be me.
06:41But if you can fall right on the line and people love it, Under the Milky Way is that.
06:46Anybody can inhabit that song.
06:53I happen to think that because it's Under the Stars that people can look up and realise that we're all seeing the same thing.
06:59And so it's unifying in a way.
07:01There you go.
07:02It's really beautiful.
07:03No one's ever said that before.
07:04Really?
07:05No.
07:06That's very surprising to me.
07:07No, looking up, the cosmos reduces us all to one.
07:10Yeah, exactly.
07:13Looking up at the stars is kind of an equaliser.
07:16No matter who we are, we're all staring up at the same sky.
07:20And maybe that shared perspective is exactly what we need as we head back into space.
07:30At the start of this episode, I asked Steve, how do we make sure that we do that well?
07:37We won't.
07:38And let's just say he didn't sugarcoat it.
07:41We will go to other planets, we will pollute them and burn them out.
07:46And if there are people there, we will enslave them and kill them and try and make them believe in Jesus.
07:52And that sort of seems to be what humanity does.
07:56Which brings me to the real question.
07:59Do you think that the art that we make can have an impact on how things play out?
08:06Yes, I do.
08:08You can get a glimpse of the world we could have through art.
08:12Now that's something I can work with.
08:15Because sure, art reflects the world we live in.
08:20But I'm interested in how it can offer an alternative.
08:24Right now, it's easy to feel like the future is being built for the few, not the many.
08:33I want to thank every Amazon employee and every Amazon customer.
08:38Because you guys paid for all this.
08:40And while billionaires turn space into their next big business,
08:45down here on Earth, one artist is imagining something else entirely.
08:51Hello.
08:57Hey.
08:58Hello.
08:59How are you going?
09:00Sewa, what's up?
09:01We out here.
09:02This is so cool.
09:06Sewa Atafa's studio feels like stepping into a time portal.
09:10Whoa, that's cool.
09:11On one side, piles of vintage tech.
09:14So these are bits and pieces of e-waste and like scrap tech.
09:18Epic.
09:19On the other.
09:20This monitor is crazy.
09:21Yeah.
09:22This sleek, high powered workstation with surreal new worlds in progress.
09:26This is my spaceship.
09:28It's where she builds her digital dreamscapes, not as a visitor, but as the main character.
09:38Growing up, I was obsessed with like avatar based games.
09:42But I felt like I could never totally be myself or do what I wanted.
09:47So I just started making my own little metaverses and trying to create visions of our future,
09:53where I could actually see myself.
09:55Aw!
10:01Serwa's futures aren't billionaire's playgrounds, that's for sure.
10:06They're a lush, layered black perspective on what our journey to space could look like.
10:12Displayed across five screens, this one features female warriors
10:16rising from burning slave castles and shipwrecked colonial vessels.
10:21In Serwar's words,
10:23a futuristic realm of resilience and reclamation.
10:27Like, I'm noticing that you have, like, a real interest in vintage future.
10:31Like, old imaginings of the future.
10:33Mm-hm, mm-hm.
10:34You can't look to the future without looking to the past.
10:37I think that's where we mess it up,
10:39is dreaming up futures that have nothing to do with our past.
10:43So I think that's why I'm really into those older depictions of the future,
10:46because they give us an indication of what we've wanted,
10:49what our dreams were, why we want to make these things, I guess.
10:53Yeah.
10:55And Serwar's work is part of a tradition
10:57that digs deep into those dreams.
10:59It's called Afrofuturism,
11:02a reimagining of the future through a black cultural lens.
11:05It first emerged during the civil rights movement of the 60s,
11:11partly in response to a very white space program.
11:14We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things.
11:19From the cosmic jazz of Sun Ra,
11:22to the science fiction of Octavia Butler,
11:25to Janelle Monáe and Black Panther,
11:28it's about depicting a future where African history, culture,
11:31mythology and tradition thrive.
11:35Your work has been described as Afrofuturistic quite a bit.
11:38How do you feel about being included in that tradition of art making,
11:41like that world?
11:42It feels great.
11:44Like, the more I can sort of create visions like that
11:47that can hopefully inspire, that really means a lot to me.
11:53For me, I make my artwork not really for the people of today.
11:57I make it for the people of the future.
11:58I would make it for my future ancestors.
12:01Sort of like the opposite of an elder.
12:03Like, as insane as it sounds,
12:05I feel like I'm trying to learn from people that aren't here yet.
12:07Instead of, you know, like, learn from my elders,
12:10but I also try and think about my great-great-grandchild,
12:14trying to make a world that she would want to live in.
12:17I love Seewa's works.
12:25She calls them heavenly dystopias.
12:29They're beautiful, bold, and they make space feel like it belongs to all of us,
12:34not just the richest, the fastest or the first.
12:38They're not just visions of survival.
12:41They're visions of joy, of care, of possibility.
12:47But I know what you might be thinking.
12:49Can art really help shape the future?
12:53Like, really?
12:58I controlled myself and didn't wear my Star Trek uniform for the interview.
13:01Oh, that would have been so good!
13:03I would have loved that.
13:04It's in the closet, you tell me.
13:06I'm nowhere near as much of a sci-fi fan as you.
13:09Probably why you had friends in high school.
13:11LAUGHTER
13:12We have Mike Gold.
13:15Through Star Trek, I've met some amazing people working in the space industry,
13:20and Mike Gold is one of them.
13:22One of the biggest Star Trek fans around in the industry.
13:25He's not just a sci-fi fan.
13:27Mike's spent his career turning science fiction into science fact.
13:31From NASA to Redwire, a company building tech for life beyond Earth.
13:36And he's got me wondering, can a TV show really shape what we build in space?
13:43You are, without a doubt, the biggest Star Trek fan that I've ever met.
13:48Did it influence you to embark on the career path that you've taken?
13:53Absolutely.
13:54My life wouldn't be what it is without Star Trek.
13:57Not just the inspiration and awe and wonder of space,
14:04but the optimistic society that Star Trek portrayed.
14:09While I may be the biggest Star Trek fan, you know,
14:11if you go to NASA headquarters, I wouldn't be alone.
14:15That so many of us at NASA, so many of us in the private sector,
14:18were inspired by Star Trek.
14:21Could you, like, give us some insight into some ways that Star Trek has influenced NASA
14:27and Redwire's approach to space exploration?
14:28Absolutely.
14:29And you'll have to stop me because we could do a show just on this question alone.
14:35It was because of the diversity of Star Trek,
14:38and particularly the work of Michelle Nichols,
14:40who played Lieutenant Uhura in the original series,
14:43she spent, I think, the better part of six months under contract from NASA,
14:47crisscrossing the country to find female and African-American astronauts,
14:52minority astronauts, and those became the first female and minority astronaut candidates
14:56in the history of NASA.
14:58This is your NASA.
15:00The name of the first space shuttle was originally, I believe, going to be Constellation.
15:05Yeah.
15:06And it was because of Star Trek fans writing in and complaining
15:09that they made the name of the first space shuttle Enterprise.
15:14At Redwire, we're building a system that can take the dirt from the moon
15:18and turn it into roads, turn it into housing.
15:22And that very much is modelled off of the Star Trek replicator technology.
15:27They're all fantastic examples of Star Trek influencing our future in space.
15:33But there's another one, a big one, that Mike himself helped bring about.
15:37If you had 15 seconds in an elevator to tell me what the Artemis Accords are,
15:41what would you say?
15:41The Artemis Accords are a global commitment by now 53 nations to explore space in a peaceful,
15:50safe, sustainable, and transparent fashion.
15:53I would say they're the vehicle to achieve the dream that is Star Trek.
15:58Wow.
15:59And what was your part in that?
16:01Well, as you might note from the name, I named the Artemis Accords.
16:05So...
16:06Just that little thing.
16:06Yeah, I had to get my Star Trek reference in.
16:10You can't really get more direct than that, can you?
16:14Whoa.
16:14Can we just take a moment?
16:16That's a remarkable example of our journey into space being shaped by art and storytelling.
16:22It's such a magic symbiotic kind of relationship, isn't it, between art and reality?
16:26It's very cool.
16:27Jess, I consider you and your colleagues part of the space program because you play a role that is as
16:35important as any engineer, as any rocket science.
16:40Whew. Whoa. Talking to Mike, it really hits me.
16:47Art doesn't just imagine space. Sometimes it helps us actually get there.
16:52A TV show became a blueprint. A story turned into a strategy.
16:57But while 20th century sci-fi may have helped launch us toward the stars, the world's oldest
17:05continuous culture has had a deep relationship with space for millennia.
17:12To explore those stories, art historian Mary McGillivray is teaming up with astrophysicist
17:19and proud Wiradjuri woman Dr. Kirsten Banks.
17:21So this is an early 18th century star atlas. And Orion's belt, I think, is one of the most
17:30well-known constellations. Yes. In Wiradjuri, we actually see the stars of Orion as the same sort
17:37of pattern representing a human or a man. For us, though, we see it as the creator spirit Bayami.
17:44And in one of the stories, he's running along and chasing an emu called Ginoan.
17:51And he trips on a log and falls flat on his face.
18:01And that is illustrated in how the stars move.
18:06When Orion sets in the sky from Australia's perspective, he sets head first.
18:11So Bayami is falling over, yeah, head first into the ground. That's fantastic.
18:17Illustrates the story quite well. I love it.
18:21In Wiradjuri culture, the Southern Cross isn't a cross. We actually see it as yaran, which is a tree.
18:33But the two stars next to the cross, the Southern pointers, we call them mare mare,
18:39which represent two cockatoos. And what's going on is that yaran is their home.
18:45The tree is their home. And they're following their home in the sky.
18:50And again, it's illustrated in how the sky moves because of the rotation of the earth.
18:56Mare mare are always following their home in the sky.
18:59What's different about the dark emu compared to the constellations we've looked at here is that
19:07the patterns we look for with the dark emu are the negative spaces, the patches of gas and dust
19:13that naturally block the light from more distant stars in the Milky Way galaxy.
19:19And I can see it here. So underneath the Southern Cross, you see this little patch here?
19:24It's kind of like the head and the beak of the emu. Yeah, yeah.
19:27And then if you continue along this way towards the center of the Milky Way, that's kind of like the neck.
19:33And then the bulge of the Milky Way is the body.
19:38It's very kind of long, lean emu. Oh, it's huge. It's incredible.
19:44Once you see this constellation, you can't unsee it. It is amazing.
19:49And in Wiradjuri, we call him Gorgorman.
19:51It's also really useful in Wiradjuri culture. Its position in the night sky indicates when
19:59is the right time to go looking for inu eggs. Fantastic.
20:03Our fascination with the night sky has inspired incredible stories and exploration.
20:10But with the commercialization of space travel, how do we protect these new frontiers?
20:15This year, even the moon was listed as a threatened cultural heritage site.
20:20Hey, I'm Jess. Hey, I'm Jess. Nice to meet you.
20:24This is Amos Gebhardt, an award-winning artist and cinematographer.
20:29And I've come to visit an installation that treats the moon not as a place to conquer,
20:34but as a collaborator.
20:35And this is Alexis.
20:39These works, like this award-winning portrait of Wanyi writer Alexis Wright,
20:44were all created using the moon as the only light source.
20:47It's not the easiest thing to work with with film, but it's got this wizard potential.
20:58They're not just beautiful, they're quietly powerful.
21:01There's a deep intimacy to them. I'm left with this visceral feeling of stillness.
21:15I don't know, when I stand in this room, I mean, like when we walked in, I felt like a release.
21:19Yeah.
21:20You know, like there's just like relaxation into the space.
21:23Yeah.
21:24Yeah.
21:25There's something about being under the moonlight together,
21:28in the darkness and the quietness of the nervous system.
21:31And to be there with the camera to kind of feel into what might be able to be photographed,
21:36because you can't see everything.
21:38There are kind of mysteries that are hovering on the edges of your vision.
21:42There was an almost childlike awe that kept coming out.
21:47This body of work is called Moen Garda.
21:50A word that I haven't heard before, but won't be forgetting in a hurry.
21:54Moen Garda is a Swedish word that translates literally to moon road.
22:01It signifies that extraordinary image that the moon creates when it's hanging over a body of water.
22:07That kind of pathway towards itself speaks to this idea of a pathway into the unknown.
22:14And the subjects of Amos's portraits are all on that pathway.
22:17They're visionaries, imagining liberated, collective futures.
22:27Why do you think the moon is such a potent symbol for change?
22:33I think one of the things that really struck me was this idea of renewal,
22:39where we see this cholecyst celestial companion constantly shrinking and expanding and reminding us of change.
22:46How do you feel about human expansion into space?
22:50Um, it strikes me as a pathology actually.
22:54I, in Aileen Morton Robinson's interview actually, her grandparents raised her on Quandamooka country
22:59and she came home one day as a little kid when a man landed on the moon.
23:03She was very excited to her grandfather and he was just devastated.
23:08Because he knew what it meant.
23:10He knew that the implications of conquest to expand into space in that way and that arrogance and the audacity.
23:16Yeah, I sit on that fence.
23:18I think if you can't experience awe from the place that we're born into and onto and balance with the earth,
23:26then I think there's something out of whack.
23:30Amos's words are so valid.
23:38A reminder that our dreams of space travel are often intertwined with the language of colonialism and empire.
23:46Because that challenge is one that we intend to win.
23:50Those connections can be hard to shake.
23:55But what if we had a stronger relationship with the stars from here on earth?
24:00How would that change the way we think about space?
24:03How would that change the way we think about space?
24:10Hi. Hi, Jeff.
24:11Shireen, nice to meet you.
24:12How are you?
24:12Nice to meet you too.
24:13How are you doing?
24:14Great.
24:15Is it always this tidy or...
24:16Well, I mean, it's pretty messy over there, but...
24:18Come on.
24:19It's beautiful in here.
24:19It feels like a display home.
24:21Oh, no.
24:28Shireen Tawil is an artist whose connection to the stars
24:32has taken her on an extraordinary journey.
24:35And has forged a link between her Lebanese-Australian heritage
24:39and a science fiction vision of the future.
24:42So, in the studio, I've been investigating celestial navigation technologies.
24:48And really, it comes back to the core materiality of copper
24:51and its connection into science and astronomy,
24:55practice of time, and its cultural connections.
24:58The navigation devices I've been delving into are from the Arabic sciences,
25:03and they're made also from precious metals like copper and brass and silver.
25:07Shireen handcrafted these three devices used for navigating by the stars.
25:13A quadrant, an astrolabe, and a compass.
25:16My tools are literally the same as the astronomers' tools you would have found
25:22at an observatory up until, like, the last century.
25:26Wow.
25:26Yeah.
25:27And so, this is a reet, which is the front face of an astrolabe.
25:31But what's so beautiful about an astrolabe is, like,
25:34you're holding the universe in the palm of your hands.
25:38And so, within a device of an astrolabe, which is kind of like a computer,
25:43each point you would find on the device is actually pointing to a specific star.
25:48Yeah.
25:52There's something so beautiful about how tactile and elemental it is,
25:57and you're also exploring ideas of, like, things that are so far beyond.
26:01Oh, absolutely.
26:02And this materiality has had such a play in astronomy.
26:10Last year, Shireen went on a pilgrimage, a Hajj,
26:14following a line towards Mecca across Australia and New Zealand for over 5,000 nautical miles.
26:22And she used those handmade instruments and ancient navigation techniques
26:26to plot a course using the stars in the night sky.
26:31It was such an extraordinary experience, constantly being connected to the night sky.
26:38And you're literally, like, eyeballing the star you're relating to.
26:42Yeah.
26:43It must be an incredible feeling to be so aware of your global location in such a tactile way.
26:49Like, you're so connected to the whole of Earth at any time.
26:54Shireen's journey was part of an artwork called Pilgrimage of a Hajjonaut,
26:59taking age-old practices of faith and migration
27:02and imagining what they would look like on a journey into space.
27:06It was in, like, the Arab region for millennia.
27:13We've been extraordinary travellers.
27:16We know the iconic pilgrim for Hajj wears, like, the white garments.
27:21I was wanting to fold in the space garments,
27:24but also it, like, unzips and becomes a sacred space for prayer.
27:28Did you get any, like, profound insights from your process?
27:37Uh, well, it's definitely an experience.
27:39I'm still reflecting on myself being Lebanese Australian.
27:43When my parents migrated here and having grown up here,
27:47we've always had to think of the future and work towards that sense of kind of survival
27:53and establishing a sense of place and belonging.
27:57So it's been really beautiful to think about future practices
28:00that are also connected to off-Earth experiences of the sacred.
28:04If we are to journey out into space as a species, how do we not mess it up?
28:13There needs to be far more diverse voices in the activity of space
28:18because we're all connected to the night sky
28:20and we all come from paths that have involved really beautiful dialogues
28:25and contributions to our understanding of astronomy.
28:28It's incredible how Shireen's deep research into the ancient past
28:35brings us to the moment we're in right now,
28:38standing on the threshold of the universe.
28:43Why is it important for us to go into space with a collective approach
28:48as opposed to a competitive one?
28:50Space is hard, really hard.
28:52Quote of the day.
28:54Everything in space wants to kill you, from the vacuum to radiation,
28:58is extremely dangerous and that requires innovation.
29:02And diversity is the fuel for innovation.
29:06The more diverse a group is, the more likely it is to be creative
29:10and come up with solutions that we never thought of before.
29:13And that's why diversity isn't just the right thing to do.
29:16It's mission critical to achieve the dreams that we have in space.
29:22I set out on this journey to see if there was a way
29:24we could explore space without messing it up.
29:27And like everything we humans do, it's complicated with no easy answers.
29:33But I do think art offers a way to keep our eyes open
29:37and steer us in the right direction.
29:39And if our vision of the future can make room for more voices,
29:44then our next giant leap into the unknown could land us somewhere truly incredible.
29:52is
30:06so
Be the first to comment