- 19 hours ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00You
00:11Steve Kilby
00:13Jess, how are you? I'm good
00:16You grew up when the moon landings were actually happening. What was that like?
00:22Extraordinary. It was 1969
00:24And I remember it was during a maths class and we had a little TV up there and we watched them walk on the moon
00:42It was strange we all just sat there and watched and went oh yeah
00:45We've landed on the moon and then he just went on with the day. Yeah
00:48Snap as I'm back out in the playgrounds having your milk at 11 o'clock and trying to chat up a girl
00:56It was a very different world
01:01Seeing as we are going out in reality
01:06How do we make sure that we do that well we won't
01:18Look, I know what you're thinking it looks like I'm prepping for zero gravity, but no, I'm not leaving Earth. I'm making a sculpture
01:35And I built this piece to celebrate one of Earth's smallest superheroes the bee
01:41The inspiration was helping people to stay connected to their own love for the environment
01:47Because I've always believed that art can speak it's the urgent things climate care
01:53Connection and I've spent most of my time focused on the space beneath the clouds on the series Star Trek strange new world
02:00She stars as nurse Chapel
02:04That is until I joined the cast of Star Trek strange new worlds
02:08Because suddenly then I was surrounded by scientists futurists
02:14thinkers
02:15People who opened my mind to what's happening up there. I can't wait for us to hear the song
02:25Yep, we are entering a new era of space exploration
02:32I'm not gonna lie. It's a bit surreal and
02:35And also a little terrifying
02:41We have lost the ship and we appear to have had a lost vehicle failure, but most of all
02:47It's got me thinking how many resources went into putting these women into space
02:53With our track record here on Earth
02:55Can we really go into space without totally messing it up?
03:00and
03:02Can art help guide the way?
03:05I've heard you got five albums coming out. Yeah
03:11Not slowing down at all. I
03:13Can't I'm wired into this thing 24 hours a day
03:18Why are we so obsessed with space anyway? It's a planet in a spiritual sky to find out
03:24I've come to chat with one of Australia's greatest songwriters
03:27Steve Kilby
03:29He's world renowned as leader of the band the church and co-writer of their smash hit under the Milky Way
03:44With a musical imagination that's taken listeners to other times and other worlds
03:54I'm keen to hear why Steve thinks space has inspired so many artists
04:01Space and sci-fi has been something that is fairly new to me and it seems that you share that interest but maybe it goes back a little further
04:12All the way, yeah
04:15I remember when I was 18 suddenly this genre of space rock just came out of nowhere
04:22It was Hawkwind and Pink Floyd and then Ziggy's Stardust
04:34For the first time ever musicians were exploring not just the idea of space but the feeling of space
04:41that really got me in and
04:44This band Hawkwind have you ever listened to I have had a little listen to them. Yeah, they're awesome. Yeah
04:56Well, they were the first band I ever heard who were trying to give you the feeling of what space travel might be like and
05:02It sort of had to this for one of a better word druggy feeling
05:07The stars and the comments are all translated as synthesizes and oscillators
05:16Like
05:31So exploring space
05:33Imaginatively for you is is more about the escapism of it. Yes. Yeah in music or not. I'm not really interested in reality
05:43I'm interested in this poetic aspect of space
05:48And when you immersed in this weird spiritual magical world
05:54That's music that gives you ample opportunities
05:57Opportunities for weirdness because space is weird
06:01So that's where I go back to find the things I want to give out to the audience this other world
06:12And you can definitely feel that expansive otherworldly quality in the church's biggest song under the Milky Way
06:20Because what do you think about the song is so
06:25Accessible universally connected? I think it's ambiguous
06:29And I think ambiguity is a really interesting thing and it's one of the things I kind of specialize in
06:34You've got this line of ambiguity if you go too far and it's too specific
06:42Yeah, you're gonna block a lot of people out
06:44They're gonna go that can't be me, but if you can fall right on the line and people love it under the Milky Way is that
06:51Anybody can inhabit that song
06:53I
06:58Happen to think that because it's under the stars that people can look up and realize that we're all seeing the same thing and so you don't find in a way
07:06It's not beautiful. No one's ever said that before really. No, that's very surprising. No looking up the the cosmos reduces us all to one
07:15Yeah, exactly
07:17Looking up at the stars is kind of an equalizer
07:20No matter who we are. We're all staring up at the same sky
07:27And maybe that shared perspective is exactly what we need as we head back into space
07:34At the start of this episode I asked Steve how do we make sure that we do that well?
07:42We won't and let's just say he didn't sugarcoat it. We will go to other planets
07:48We will pollute them and burn them out and if there are people there
07:53We will enslave them and kill them and try and make them believe in Jesus and
07:58That sort of seems to be what humanity does which brings me to the real question
08:04Do you think that the art that we make?
08:07Can have an impact on how things play out?
08:10Yes, I do you can get a glimpse of the world we could have through our now. That's something I can work with
08:21Because sure art reflects the world we live in but I'm interested in how it can offer an alternative
08:28Right now, it's easy to feel like the future is being built for the few not the many
08:37I want to thank every Amazon employee and every Amazon customer because you guys paid for all this
08:45And while billionaires turn space into their next big business
08:51Down here on earth one artist is imagining something else entirely
08:55Hello
09:01Hey
09:03How are you going?
09:04Sewa, what's up?
09:05We out you
09:06This is so cool
09:09Thank you
09:10Sewa Atafa's studio feels like stepping into a time portal
09:14Wow, that's cool
09:15On one side piles of vintage tech
09:18So these are bits and pieces of e-waste and like scrap tech
09:22Epic
09:23On the other
09:24This monitor is crazy
09:25Yeah
09:26This sleek high-powered workstation with surreal new worlds in progress
09:30This is my spaceship
09:32It's where she builds her digital dreamscapes not as a visitor but as the main character
09:40Growing up I was obsessed with like avatar based games
09:44But I felt like I could never totally be myself or do what I wanted
09:51So I just started making my own little metaverses and I'm trying to create visions of our future where I could actually see myself
09:59Sewa's futures aren't billionaire's playgrounds that's for sure
10:09They're a lush layered black perspective on what our journey to space could look like
10:16Displayed across five screens, this one features female warriors rising from burning slave castles and shipwrecked colonial vessels
10:26In Sewa's words, a futuristic realm of resilience and reclamation
10:31Like I'm noticing that you have like a real interest in vintage future
10:35Like yes, old imaginings of the future
10:38You can't look to the future without looking to the past
10:41I think that's where we mess it up is dreaming up futures that have nothing to do with our past
10:47So I think that's why I'm really into those older depictions of the future
10:51Yeah
10:52Because they give us an indication of what we've wanted, what our dreams were
10:55Why we want to make these things
10:57Yeah
10:58I guess, yeah
10:59And Sewa's work is part of a tradition that digs deep into those dreams
11:04It's called Afrofuturism
11:06A reimagining of the future through a black cultural lens
11:10It first emerged during the civil rights movement of the 60s
11:15Partly in response to a very white space program
11:19We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things
11:24From the cosmic jazz of Sun Ra to the science fiction of Octavia Butler
11:29To Janelle Monae and Black Panther
11:32It's about depicting a future where African history, culture, mythology and tradition thrive
11:39Your work has been described as Afrofuturistic quite a bit
11:42How do you feel about being included in that tradition of art making, like that world?
11:46It feels great
11:48Like the more I can sort of create visions like that that can hopefully inspire
11:53That really means a lot to me
11:58For me I make my artwork not really for the people of today
12:01I make it for the people of the future
12:02I make it for my future ancestors
12:05Sort of like the opposite of an elder
12:07Like as insane as it sounds
12:09I feel like I'm trying to learn from people that aren't here yet
12:12Instead of...
12:13That's so cool
12:14You know, like learn from my elders
12:15But I also try and think about my great great grandchild
12:19Trying to make a world that she would want to live in
12:22I love Sewa's works
12:29She calls them heavenly dystopias
12:34They're beautiful, bold
12:36And they make space feel like it belongs to all of us
12:39Not just the richest, the fastest or the first
12:43They're not just visions of survival
12:45They're visions of joy, of care, of possibility
12:50But I know what you might be thinking
12:54Can art really help shape the future?
12:58Like really?
13:02I controlled myself and didn't wear my Star Trek uniform
13:05Oh that would have been so good
13:07I would have loved that
13:08It's in the closet, you tell me
13:11I'm nowhere near as much of a sci-fi fan as you
13:13Probably why you had friends in high school
13:15We have Mike Gold
13:19Through Star Trek, I've met some amazing people working in the space industry
13:24And Mike Gold is one of them
13:26One of the biggest Star Trek fans around in the industry
13:29He's not just a sci-fi fan
13:31Mike spent his career turning science fiction into science fact
13:36From NASA to Redwire, a company building tech for life beyond Earth
13:41And he's got me wondering
13:43Can a TV show really shape what we build in space?
13:47You are, without a doubt, the biggest Star Trek fan that I've ever met
13:52Did it influence you to embark on the career path that you've taken?
13:57Absolutely, my life wouldn't be what it is without Star Trek
14:02Not just the inspiration and awe and wonder of space
14:08But the optimistic society that Star Trek portrayed
14:13While I may be the biggest Star Trek fan, you know
14:16If you go to NASA headquarters, I wouldn't be alone
14:19That so many of us at NASA, so many of us in the private sector
14:23Were inspired by Star Trek
14:25Could you, like, give us some insight into some ways that Star Trek
14:30Has influenced NASA and Redwire's approach to space exploration?
14:33Absolutely
14:34And you'll have to stop me
14:35Because we could do a show just on this question alone
14:39It was because of the diversity of Star Trek
14:42And particularly the work of Michelle Nichols
14:44Who played Lieutenant Uhura in the original series
14:47She spent, I think, the better part of six months under contract from NASA
14:51Criss-crossing the country to find female and African-American astronauts
14:56Minority astronauts
14:57And those became the first female and minority astronaut candidates in the history of NASA
15:02This is your NASA
15:04The name of the first space shuttle
15:06Yeah
15:07Was originally, I believe, going to be Constellation
15:09Yeah
15:10And it was because of Star Trek fans writing in and complaining
15:13That they made the name of the first space shuttle Enterprise
15:18At Redwire, we're building a system that can take the dirt from the moon
15:23And turn it into roads
15:25Turn it into housing
15:27And that very much is modeled off of the Star Trek replicator technology
15:31They're all fantastic examples of Star Trek influencing our future in space
15:37But there's another one
15:39A big one
15:40That Mike himself helped bring about
15:42If you had 15 seconds in an elevator to tell me what the Artemis Accords are, what would you say?
15:46The Artemis Accords are a global commitment by now 53 nations
15:51To explore space in a peaceful, safe, sustainable and transparent fashion
15:57I would say they're the vehicle to achieve the dream that is Star Trek
16:02Wow
16:03And what was your part in it?
16:05Well, as you might note from the name, I named the Artemis Accords
16:10Just that little thing
16:12Yeah
16:13I had to get my Star Trek reference in
16:15You can't really get more direct than that, can you?
16:17Whoa
16:19Can we just take a moment?
16:21That's a remarkable example of our journey into space being shaped by art and storytelling
16:27It's such a magic symbiotic kind of relationship, isn't it?
16:30Between art and reality
16:31It's very cool
16:32Jess, I consider you and your colleagues part of the space program
16:36Because you play a role that is as important as any engineer, as any rocket science
16:44Whew
16:45Whoa
16:46Talking to Mike, it really hits me
16:49Art doesn't just imagine space, sometimes it helps us actually get there
16:56A TV show became a blueprint, a story turned into a strategy
17:03But while 20th century sci-fi may have helped launch us toward the stars, the world's oldest continuous culture has had a deep relationship with space for millennia
17:16To explore those stories, art historian Mary McGillivray is teaming up with astrophysicist and proud Wiradjuri woman Dr. Kirsten Banks
17:26So this is an early 18th century star atlas and Orion's belt I think is one of the most well-known constellations
17:36Yes, in Wiradjuri we actually see the stars of Orion as the same sort of pattern representing a human or a man
17:44For us though, we see it as the creative spirit Bayami
17:48And in one of the stories he's running along and chasing an emu called Dinawan
17:53And he trips on a log
18:00And falls flat on his face
18:04And that is illustrated in how the stars move
18:09When Orion sets in the sky from Australia's perspective, he sets head first
18:15So Bayami is falling over
18:18Falling over the log
18:19Yeah, head first into the ground
18:20That's fantastic
18:21Illustrates the story quite well
18:23I love it
18:25In Wiradjuri culture, the southern cross isn't a cross
18:32We actually see it as Yaran, which is a tree
18:34But the two stars next to the cross, the southern pointers, we call them Mare Mare, which represent two cockatoos
18:46And what's going on is that Yaran is their home
18:49The tree is their home
18:51And they're following their home in the sky
18:53And again, it's illustrated in how the sky moves because of the rotation of the earth
18:59Mare Mare are always following their home in the sky
19:03What's different about the dark emu compared to the constellations we've looked at here is that the patterns we look for with the dark emu are the negative spaces
19:15The patches of gas and dust that naturally block the light from more distant stars in the Milky Way galaxy
19:21And I can see it here, so underneath the southern cross, you see this little patch here, it's kind of like the head and the beak of the emu
19:31Yeah, yeah
19:32And then if you continue along this way towards the centre of the Milky Way, that's kind of like the neck
19:36I can see it
19:38And then the bulge of the Milky Way is the body
19:40I can see it
19:41It's a very kind of long, lean emu
19:45Oh, it's huge, it's incredible
19:47Once you see this constellation, you can't unsee it, it is amazing
19:52And in Wiradjuri, we call them Gwagorman
19:55It's also really useful in Wiradjuri culture
20:00Its position in the night sky indicates when is the right time to go looking for inu eggs
20:05Fantastic
20:07Our fascination with the night sky has inspired incredible stories and exploration
20:13But with the commercialisation of space travel, how do we protect these new frontiers?
20:20This year, even the moon was listed as a threatened cultural heritage site
20:25Amos?
20:26Hey, I'm Jess, nice to meet you
20:28This is Amos Gebhardt, an award-winning artist and cinematographer
20:33And I've come to visit an installation that treats the moon not as a place to conquer, but as a collaborator
20:41And this is Alexis
20:43These works, like this award-winning portrait of Wanyi writer Alexis Wright, were all created using the moon as the only light source
20:53It's not the easiest thing to work with with film, but it's got this wizard potential
21:02They're not just beautiful, they're quietly powerful
21:07There's a deep intimacy to them
21:10I'm left with this visceral feeling of stillness
21:13I don't know, when I stand in this room, I mean like when we walked in I felt like a release
21:24Yeah
21:25You know, like there's just like relaxation into the space
21:28Yeah
21:29Yeah, there's something about being under the moonlight together
21:33In the darkness and the quietness of the nervous system
21:36And to be there with a camera to kind of feel into what might be able to be photographed
21:41Because you can't see everything, there are kind of mysteries that are hovering on the edges of your vision
21:46There was an almost childlike awe that kept coming out
21:52This body of work is called moangada
21:55A word that I haven't heard before, but won't be forgetting in a hurry
22:00Moangada is a Swedish word that translates literally to moon road
22:05It signifies that extraordinary image that the moon creates when it's hanging over a body of water
22:12That kind of pathway towards itself speaks to this idea of a pathway into the unknown
22:18And the subjects of Amos' portraits are all on that pathway
22:23They're visionaries, imagining liberated, collective futures
22:27Why do you think the moon is such a potent symbol for change?
22:38I think one of the things that really struck me was this idea of renewal
22:43Where we see this cholecyst celestial companion constantly shrinking and expanding and reminding us of change
22:51How do you feel about human expansion into space?
22:53It strikes me as a pathology actually
22:58In Aileen Morton Robinson's interview actually
23:02Her grandparents raised her in Quandamooka country
23:04And she came home one day as a little kid
23:07When a man landed on the moon, she was very excited to her grandfather
23:10And he was just devastated
23:12Because he knew what it meant
23:15He knew that the implications of conquest to expand into space in that way
23:18And the arrogance and the audacity
23:21Yeah, I sit on that fence, I think
23:24I think if you can't experience awe from the place that we're born into and onto and balance with the earth
23:31Then I think there's something out of whack
23:34Mm-hmm
23:35Mm-hmm
23:39Amos's words are so valid
23:43A reminder that our dreams of space travel are often intertwined with the language of colonialism and empire
23:49Because that challenge is one that we intend to win
23:54Those connections can be hard to shake
23:58But what if we had a stronger relationship with the stars from here on earth?
24:04How would that change the way we think about space?
24:07How would that change the way we think about space?
24:14Hi!
24:15Hi, Jeff!
24:16Shireen, nice to meet you!
24:17Nice to meet you too!
24:18How are you doing?
24:19Great!
24:20Is it always this tidy?
24:21Well, I mean, it's pretty messy over there but
24:23Come on, it's beautiful in here
24:24It feels like a display home
24:26Oh, no!
24:27Shireen Tawil is an artist whose connection to the stars has taken her on an extraordinary journey
24:40And has forged a link between her Lebanese-Australian heritage and a science fiction vision of the future
24:47So, in the studio I've been investigating celestial navigation technologies
24:52And really it comes back to the core materiality of copper and its connection to science and astronomy
24:59The practice of time and its cultural connections
25:03The navigation devices I've been delving into are from the Arabic sciences
25:08And they're made also from precious metals like copper and brass and silver
25:13Shireen handcrafted these three devices used for navigating by the stars
25:18A quadrant, an astrolabe and a compass
25:22My tools are literally the same as the astronomers tools you would have found at an observatory
25:29Up until like the last century
25:31Wow!
25:32And so this is a reet, which is the front face of an astrolabe
25:36But what's so beautiful about an astrolabe is like you're holding the universe in the palm of your hands
25:43And so within a device of an astrolabe, which is kind of like a computer
25:47Each point you would find on the device is actually pointing to a specific star
25:53Yeah
25:55Yeah
25:57There's something so beautiful about how tactile and elemental it is
26:02And you're also exploring ideas of like things that are so far beyond
26:05Absolutely, and this materiality has had such a play in astronomy
26:14Last year, Shireen went on a pilgrimage, a Hajj, following a line towards Mecca across Australia and New Zealand for over 5,000 nautical miles
26:23And she used those handmade instruments and ancient navigation techniques to plot a course using the stars in the night sky
26:36It was such an extraordinary experience
26:39Constantly being connected to the night sky
26:41And you're literally like eyeballing the star you're relating to
26:47Yeah
26:48It must be an incredible feeling to be so aware of your global location
26:53Oh, absolutely
26:54In such a tactile way
26:55Like you're so connected to the whole of Earth
26:56Yeah
26:57At any time
26:59Shireen's journey was part of an artwork called Pilgrimage of a Hajjonaut
27:03Taking age-old practices of faith and migration and imagining what they would look like on a journey into space
27:14Within like the Arab region for millennia we've been extraordinary travelers
27:20We know the iconic pilgrim for Hajj wears like the white garments
27:25I was wanting to fold in the space garments
27:28But also it like unzips and becomes a sacred space for prayer
27:37Did you get any like profound insights from your process?
27:42Well, it's definitely an experience I'm still reflecting on
27:46Myself being Lebanese Australian
27:49When my parents migrated here and having grown up here
27:51We've always had to think of the future and work towards that sense of kind of survival and establishing a sense of place and belonging
28:01This has been really beautiful to think about future practices that are also connected to off-Earth experiences of the sacred
28:09If we are to journey out into space as a species, how do we not mess it up?
28:16It then needs to be far more diverse voices in the activity of space because we're all connected to the night sky and
28:25We all come from paths that have involved really beautiful dialogues and contributions to our understanding of astronomy
28:35It's incredible how Shireen's deep research into the ancient past
28:38Brings us to the moment we're in right now
28:42Standing on the threshold of the universe
28:47Why is it important for us to go into space with a collective approach as opposed to a competitive one?
28:55Space is hard, really hard
28:57Quote of the day
28:58Everything in space wants to kill you from the vacuum to radiation is extremely dangerous
29:04And that requires innovation
29:07And diversity is the fuel for innovation
29:11The more diverse a group is, the more likely it is to be creative and come up with solutions that we never thought of before
29:18And that's why diversity isn't just the right thing to do
29:21It's mission critical to achieve the dreams that we have in space
29:25I set out on this journey to see if there was a way we could explore space without messing it up
29:32And like everything we humans do, it's complicated with no easy answers
29:37But I do think art offers a way to keep our eyes open and steer us in the right direction
29:44And if our vision of the future can make room for more voices
29:48Then our next giant leap into the unknown could land us somewhere truly incredible
Be the first to comment