- 21 hours ago
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00:00As far as I'm concerned, my husband is still alive, and I have no reason to believe otherwise,
00:12since his body has not been found.
00:17Do you think that you would like to see him again one day, if you do believe he's alive?
00:22Um, as it appears that he doesn't want to be seen again, at any rate, so far, I don't want to see him again.
00:33And that's purely up to him? I mean, if he walks through the door, you would be glad to see him, despite all that's happening?
00:39Exactly. Yes, I would be glad to see him.
00:45Philly!
00:47Won't come.
00:50Come on.
00:52I wish to interview him, and I'd like to interview him as soon as possible.
00:59Have you any idea why he isn't coming forward at the moment?
01:02No.
01:09Do you think there is a chance that he is still alive?
01:13I hope he is.
01:16Of Lucan himself, nothing has been seen since his children's nanny was found battered to death,
01:21here in the basement of the family home in Belgravia.
01:27This just doesn't happen, does it?
01:28The chances of you being adopted and finding out that your real mother is in one of the biggest murder mysteries of all time, it's just, it's unbelievable.
01:38The Westminster Coroner's Court returned a verdict that Sandra Rivet had been murdered by Lord Lucan.
01:51And when you start investigating more and more, that's all you think about.
01:58That's all you think about.
01:59Exhaustive police searches of the south coast produced no clue.
02:04Soon, the hoteliers of northern France were to start a worldwide fashion for spotting Lucan.
02:10There's been many, many sightings all around the world.
02:13None of them have turned out to be Lucan.
02:20And then you realize, Moby's actually really got very far with it at all.
02:25Do you think he's altered his appearance at all?
02:27Again, I don't know.
02:29The very fact that Lucan's face is so well known is as confusing as it can be helpful.
02:36If alive, he could easily change his appearance completely.
02:40There are obviously various different ways he could have aged and it will depend completely on his lifestyle.
02:45The murder of my mother.
02:55The obsession was, well, where's Lord Lucan?
02:58Sandra was forgotten about.
03:00The police found the body of Sandra Rivet, the nanny, battered to death, bundled in a mailbag in the basement.
03:08I've seen more photographs of her dead than alive.
03:15Everything that you do read about Sandra in newspaper cuttings.
03:24Lots of boyfriends, two children out of wedlock, my half-brother and myself.
03:30And then to give us both up for adoption, that probably didn't look very good neither, did it?
03:37That's a lovely picture, isn't it?
03:41These are the only photographs I've got, just these four.
03:45They tell me nothing.
03:51Then you start thinking about, well, actually, who knows my mother?
03:55I saw Veronica Lady Lucan, the second-last person to see Sandra alive.
04:08So in April 2012, I wrote to Lady Lucan.
04:11I didn't really expect a reply, but I did have one.
04:18Subject mother.
04:20I'm so glad you got in touch.
04:22Your mother had only binned me for eight weeks before she was murdered.
04:27She was kind, loyal and a dignified woman.
04:31She was the best nanny we had.
04:33You should be reminded that in the 1960s, to have a child out of wedlock was still frowned upon.
04:39And contraception often failed.
04:42I say this to assure that your mother was not promiscuous.
04:45If you have any further questions, do not hesitate to put them.
04:49My very best wishes.
04:50I thought that was really nice that she'd got back to me like that.
04:55Did you write back?
05:03Yes.
05:05I don't know you personally, but feel sad for you over what's happened.
05:10I do not know if the stories about your husband living in another country are true or not.
05:16I'm not sure how I feel towards him taking my mother's life.
05:20Anger, cross and hatred are all the things I feel from time to time.
05:28But now?
05:31Not from time to time now.
05:34It's worse, is it?
05:38Yeah, it is worse, yeah, because, um...
05:41Oh, it's a lot worse.
05:44My anger is...
05:46I sort of have to control it, I suppose.
05:50What did Veronica come back to you with?
05:53I think that you should concentrate on the fact that my late husband killed your mother by mistake.
06:00In capitals.
06:04That's no mistake.
06:09Can't just get away with this.
06:12If he's alive, I was going to find him.
06:20Hundreds of sightings are still pouring in from all over the world.
06:27The police followed up stories in southern Africa, in Mozambique.
06:30Have you ever seen this man?
06:34No, sir.
06:35No?
06:35Same man.
06:39No?
06:40By the spring of 2012, what I knew almost certainly was that Lucan had got away to Africa.
06:52I had the leaked Scotland Yard intelligence report that gave us the name he was believed to be living under in Africa.
07:00John Crawford.
07:00I decided, if he's still alive, I'm going to get him.
07:12Do a shot at me, nice shot.
07:14Nice and steady, hold it for 10 seconds.
07:16I know what I'm doing here, gov.
07:18We don't talk whilst we're recording.
07:21I'd forgotten how annoying he was.
07:23Stuart Crookshank had been with Customs and XIs, run Heathrow Airport.
07:29I said, look, would you come with me?
07:31I had some ex-customs colleagues who knew how Mozambique operated.
07:36An inside track.
07:38John Crawford's name was run through the new Mozambique passport computer.
07:44How'd you get on?
07:45Hello, Glenn.
07:47They've checked out the name for you.
07:49And the result?
07:50Now try some trace.
07:51John Crawford not coming in, not going out.
07:56Boom, dead end.
07:59I must admit, I did.
08:02Yeah.
08:04Because you go into all of these, like, pumped up, going, here we go, here we go.
08:08And it was dropping off a cliff.
08:12We worked together for many years.
08:15He's an optimist.
08:16He's positive.
08:16He then dropped it on my toes that Lord Lucan's brother was in Johannesburg.
08:25Hugh Bingham, Lord Lucan's brother, was just across the border.
08:29He'd moved to South Africa only six months after the murder.
08:33He'd joined a very niche sect called the Theosophical Society, a religious group influenced by Buddhism.
08:44Only 35,000 people.
08:46The trouble was, he didn't give interviews.
08:52Even the lead detective had gone in the 90s to try and talk to Hugh, but he wouldn't have any of it.
08:58I'm afraid the answer is absolutely unchanged.
09:00I don't wish to get involved in this.
09:02Is there any chance of having a talk with you without filming?
09:05That wouldn't serve any useful purpose.
09:07My mind is made up on this.
09:09I'm sorry to have trouble, dear.
09:11Not at all.
09:12So we go to Johannesburg, and the Right Honorable Hugh Bingham is living in an area that has very tight security.
09:20High walls, security cameras, barbed wire, intercoms everywhere.
09:25And I remember knocking on this old metal door.
09:28The door slowly opened, and there was Hugh.
09:35And he didn't like journalists.
09:38What's the one thing that's going to get him to talk to me?
09:43And of course it went down with Neil like a bowl of sick.
09:48I was disgusted with Glenn, even trying to go down that road.
09:53We'd been working together for a few years, and he comes out where he could be innocent.
09:59No one knew exactly what took place in Lower Belgrave Street that night.
10:03But there was evidence that there was another man in the run-up to the murder, staying in the house.
10:14One of the children gave a statement testifying that there was a man who'd been staying overnight in the house.
10:19The man had never been traced.
10:21Now that, for Hugh Bingham, is going to suggest the police have botched this, that they've just fingered his brother, Lord Lucan, without looking at the entire picture.
10:32And it worked.
10:33Do you believe he committed suicide on or around the night of the murder in 1974, or do you believe he did escape?
11:03The idea of suicide, I think, would not be a goer for my brother.
11:10He was a man of considerable resourcefulness.
11:13He would have found a sanctuary somewhere, and in the nature of things, he would have had to have lived a very restricted life to remain undetected.
11:23But in your heart of hearts, if you like, in your soul, do you still think your brother is alive?
11:33I have no knowledge at all.
11:36I have no evidence one way or the other.
11:40Done.
11:41Done.
11:41Yeah, that was when it got interesting.
11:54It was when I turned the camera off and I was packing up the kit, he said, look, matter-of-factly, in a way, he did escape, he did get away, and he became a Buddhist.
12:08And then he said he'd gone to India.
12:10I said, where do you think your brother is?
12:19And he said, a retreat in India.
12:22The fact that he said the word retreat suggests to me that it was a spiritual sanctuary, if you like, or somewhere where he was safe.
12:37And then he said that in 2008, he'd died.
12:43Matter-of-fact.
12:48Hugh had said, he's dead.
12:50Hugh got the action is to believe that, isn't it?
12:57Initially.
12:59Why would he be lying?
13:02Well, there's lots of reasons why he would lie, of course, because if you get that across that his brother's dead, then people stop looking for him.
13:11And the whole thing just goes away.
13:17But something always turns up.
13:20Five years after Glenn met Hugh, I had a letter in the post from Perth, Australia.
13:31Perth?
13:32Who do I know in Australia?
13:35Who do I know in Perth?
13:40Dear Neil, this short letter is to establish communication between you and myself.
13:46In 2002, a Buddhist monk, fake, in brackets, by the name of Adam Kadman, came to me and confessed to me about what sounded like murders, involving two women by the name Sandra and Veronica.
14:03Some days later, Adam Kadman tried to kill me.
14:09I will explain everything in the near future.
14:12But I can tell you, yes, Lucan did kill your mother, I'm sorry to say.
14:17I hope to hear from you as quick as possible.
14:20Good luck, Stephen.
14:21Well, to begin with, to be honest, I thought somebody that's absolutely crazy, and what on earth is this man on about?
14:36I thought the first thing I'd got to do is bring Glenn.
14:46He'd got a letter from Perth in Western Australia.
14:50A man who thinks he's met Lord Lucan under a different name, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:58And then Neil just dropped in, and this man is a Buddhist.
15:01And I'm transported instantly back to the Theosophical Society in Johannesburg, 2012, with Hugh Bingham and what he said.
15:11And it's what you'd call Ping a Connection.
15:20I got contacts in Scotland Yard, I rang them, and they said, it warrants further investigation.
15:28He is a man of potential significant interest to law enforcement.
15:35Go with an evidence-gathering reason.
15:39You've got justification, you're going with the son of the murder victim, Sandra Rivett.
15:47Is this it?
15:49Yeah.
15:49There had been this ping-ponging of letters to Stephen.
15:52We had his address.
15:53We'll go and knock on his door.
16:03Hello.
16:03Hello, Stephen.
16:04Nice to see you.
16:06Good to see you.
16:08Oh, look, please, come in.
16:09You sure?
16:09Yeah, sure.
16:14I just knew there was something wrong.
16:16I can sense there was something horribly wrong with this man.
16:18Who used his name was Satatisa.
16:24But he keeps changing his name all the time.
16:27When I first met him, he said his name was Adam Kappman.
16:30The last putter's name was Vajran Obama or something.
16:35But anyway...
16:36Can you tell me how you linked Satatisa to Luke and how you've realised they're the one and the same?
16:41I'm just trying to think.
16:42It was a long time ago, 20, 22 years ago now.
16:48What happened was my camper van went down, blew a head gasket.
16:51So it takes a week to get your motor back.
16:55You know, what do you do?
16:56You've just got to hang around.
16:57So I asked around a few people.
16:59And I ended up renting at his place.
17:03The first night, I went down to the house.
17:06I walked in.
17:08And he was sitting on the floor in the lounge room, dressed in his Buddhist robes.
17:12I could tell that he was English.
17:14How do you mean by that?
17:16It was an educated English accent.
17:20I looked at him.
17:22I just knew he was a very suspect character.
17:25You could sense it.
17:26You could feel it.
17:27Well, I can.
17:29Yeah.
17:31Stephen Gillis.
17:33There was an air of kind of alternative lifestyle about him.
17:40Sparse.
17:40He admits he's had problems fitting into mainstream Perth lifestyle.
17:48Over the following days, wherever I went, he was there waiting.
17:53He used to go to parties.
17:54Kept on looking at me all the time.
17:56And I'm looking away.
17:57And I could just sense that this guy is getting impatuated with me.
18:01He was leading a double life all the time.
18:04He'd be a monk in his robes one day.
18:06And people would see him.
18:07And then they'd see him at a party the next night.
18:09And he's not in his robes.
18:11And he's a homosexual trying to get on to men and things like this.
18:14What was it exactly that he confessed to you?
18:17He was a highly unusual person.
18:20He used the words, people had karma to be repaid.
18:23He said, Stephen, it's your duty to listen to me.
18:27I want to confess to you, two women back in London, Sandra and Veronica, they had karma to be repaid.
18:34You know, he was proud about what he'd done.
18:37Like, I killed Sandra.
18:38She had karma to repay it.
18:39It's her own fault.
18:40Buddhist monk meets random loner, confesses to murdering somebody in London and then going on the run for 40 years.
18:52That is quite out there, isn't it?
18:54Yeah, that is, yeah.
18:55I mean, you wouldn't do it, would you?
18:57Maybe he just took a liking to Stephen and was trying to show off to sort of, you know, I can only think that maybe it was that, something like that.
19:08I just turned around and I said, look, piss off.
19:12Just go down the house and stop this bullshit all the time.
19:15So he looked up to me and he says, you know too much.
19:20His partner, boyfriend.
19:22He grabbed hold of a piece of wood about that long with two four-inch nails sticking out.
19:29And he'd just come at me, put my arm down to protect myself as the swing was coming in and took out halfway through my muscle body here.
19:38Two four-inch nails that went halfway through all of the tendons.
19:42And then the swing come back and whacked me across the head.
19:46And I was rolling, I was seeing stars.
19:48He had a white shirt on and was covered in blood.
19:51There was blood everywhere.
19:53And then he just raced at me and I'm yelling out at him, stop, stop.
19:57Straddled my arms back with his knees and just kept strangling and strangling.
20:02Stradamus has come up with his robes and everything, yelling out, kill him, kill him.
20:08He's going to kill you, kill him.
20:12I'm starting to lose consciousness.
20:14And I could hear in the background this woman screaming.
20:18Stradamus has jumped across trying to pull him off because now there's a witness.
20:22Then the police arrived and took his partner to the police station and took me to the hospital.
20:32God, I'm hot.
20:33Fuck.
20:34This is a restraining order.
20:50This one's for sexual harassment.
20:52This one here is sexual and psychopathic intimidation.
20:56And the other one is a violence restraining order.
20:59Intimidating or professional behaviour in a manner that is likely to lead to the breach of the peace.
21:03I tried to get him to turn up in court.
21:06I could never get him into a courtroom to cross-examine him about what happened.
21:10And he keeps changing his name all the time, so you're not sure what name to use on the restraint order.
21:15Adam Cadmon here.
21:16Yeah.
21:17I think it was in this one when he changed his name to Christopher Newman.
21:22Christopher Newman.
21:23I'm a new man.
21:26It was really weird.
21:27There was one restraining order against Sadatessa.
21:31The other two were only applications.
21:35A couple of years after they all took off, I thought I'd got to find out who this Sadatessa guy is.
21:41All I'd done was just put in search on the internet, murder, Sandra and Veronica, search.
21:48Well, they can come up.
21:49I'm still trying to digest what you said.
22:10I mean, some of it was crazy stuff.
22:14Do you think Stephen could have made all that up?
22:18Really?
22:19But is there an element of you wanting to believe it all?
22:22I mean, look, you know, he could have just gone on to Google, Googled all of that, and then looking into your mum's murder, getting bits from here and a bit from there.
22:33We don't want to be taken for a couple of months.
22:35Did he write anything to the court, or did he write anything to you, or...?
22:48I've kept all the letters he sent me.
22:52Would it be possible I could have one or two of these?
22:55Yeah, if you could use them, all the better.
23:07It's terrible writing.
23:08It's...
23:09I mean, it's weird that he's written all in capitals.
23:14Of course, if you write in capitals, then you can disguise your actual real handwriting.
23:19Dear beloved Stephen, what can I do to heal and make up for all the...
23:25All the pain and heart...
23:31And make up for all the pain and hurt that you have been through.
23:35Sometimes I'm feeling so close to you as if you are holding me deeply, closely in your arms.
23:41You want me to come...
23:43This is very interesting.
23:45You want me to come clean.
23:46I would if I could.
23:51Would he be on the verge of confessing?
23:55You want me to come clean, and I would if I could.
24:02All I want to do is come clean, and I would if I could.
24:09But he can't, can he?
24:16From talking to Stephen, we found out Sadatessa was operating out of a sanctuary called Daewa Chen.
24:31I managed to find the details of a lady who had gone there with her mother in the 90s.
24:38She sent me a nice email.
24:41This must be the sanctuary.
24:47I'm guessing that that is Elsie and a picture of her mother.
24:51Hi, around 25 years ago, my family knew this man.
24:58He and my mum were quite close.
25:03We'd love to talk to you.
25:04What day is best for you?
25:07Thank you, Elsie.
25:12Sadatessa ran the centre.
25:14He was, like, the main head monk at Daewa Chen.
25:17What was he like?
25:19Hmm.
25:23Different.
25:24He was...
25:26He was different.
25:29Posh accent and very commanding of a room.
25:32Knew what to say.
25:33Knew how to say it.
25:34Knew how to get you in.
25:35Knew how to make the eye contact with you and feel like you're the only person on earth.
25:41We all got told that he travelled from England, all around the world, to learn Buddhism.
25:48His Buddhist name, Sadatessa, but his name that we knew of him, like, his regular name, was Derek Crowther.
25:58And he'd said he had a family and a past.
26:02He loved kids.
26:03He played the wizard at my sixth birthday party.
26:08And that's myself in front in the white dress.
26:12That's Sadatessa.
26:14Sadatessa.
26:14Sadatessa.
26:17That's real.
26:19And then this one.
26:20This is Sadatessa and I sitting there.
26:22We're playing a game.
26:24It was great.
26:25It was a beautiful centre.
26:27It was like fairy land there.
26:29And then it all changed.
26:30Two Buddhist monks come over from Tibet, the Tibetan Buddhist Society, and kind of realised that he just wasn't doing the right teachings, kind of questioned his credentials.
26:43They told mum that he just wasn't a real monk.
26:46He was, yeah, fake.
26:48Fake monk.
26:50After that, he just disappeared.
26:52Nobody knows if he was alive or dead.
26:56Very, very strange guru, Derek.
27:06Not a proper monk.
27:08Had a family.
27:10And then disappears.
27:11Let's try Buddhist retreat, Perth.
27:20If Lucan had become a Buddhist monk, you need to carry that on.
27:25So I just assumed he's still going to be a Buddhist monk.
27:29There's tons and tons of Buddhist websites.
27:33I just started wading through as many as I could.
27:35The music's quite relaxing, isn't it?
27:48I came across one particularly well-made website.
27:51The revelation.
27:56Showing some quite strange activities.
27:59But also the video looked like some sort of Buddhist garden party.
28:03I am you.
28:05I was fascinated because there was an old man in a purple shirt, serving himself lunch.
28:17Oh, I see an old man.
28:23With a long face.
28:27Grey beard.
28:30Oh, he's even got a waistcoat on.
28:32Look.
28:32He's serving himself yoghurt with his left hand.
28:40What's the significance of that?
28:42Lucan was a left-handed card player.
28:54The old man looked very, very similar to the old man in the photos we'd collected.
28:59God, this could be him.
29:03God, this could be him.
29:05Just identical.
29:09So, what have we got?
29:11He seems to like coldslaw.
29:14Lucan's played cards with his left hand.
29:16This man's serving himself with his left hand.
29:19He might have hurt his right hand.
29:21His right hand might be holding an apple.
29:22We don't know.
29:23But for now, you know, full throttle.
29:25Warm.
29:28The video was on the website from a guy called Dar Pan.
29:32I managed to get his email address off his website.
29:39I had to get in contact.
29:41But I had a big problem.
29:45I couldn't be me.
29:47Neil Berryman.
29:49I'd been on TV.
29:51I'm the son of Sandra Rivet.
29:55I personally have known that the convenient drowning of Lord Lucan is not true.
29:59Thanks, sir.
30:02Anybody, including Lucan, could have Googled me.
30:08To catch a criminal, you have to think like a criminal.
30:11So, I had to create a story and go undercover.
30:21I had to pretend that I was a Buddhist.
30:28I needed a name.
30:31What better than being Beza Dougal?
30:34I thought, Beza Dougal, that's excellent.
30:37Where did you get Beza Dougal from?
30:39Dougal?
30:39Well, um, yeah, yeah, um, Dougal was my best friend, over there.
30:50And Beza was my nickname when I was at school, basically from Berryman.
30:54So, Beza Dougal, little bit hippie, little bit out there.
30:58Is it?
30:59I think so.
31:03I had to iron out how I'd met Sadatessa.
31:06Stephen had told me that Sadatessa used to drink in a coffee shop in Perth.
31:12So, I came up with this story of me going into this coffee shop that I've never been into before.
31:19And having a nervous breakdown in the coffee shop.
31:27Subject.
31:29Nice old man.
31:31Dear Darpin.
31:32I wrote Sadatessa was there and sorted out my mental state.
31:41I was only in there for about an hour.
31:43But Beza was very grateful for what happened, and I wanted to thank him.
31:50He is in your home video purple shirt.
32:01If he is alive, he would be...
32:05Please help.
32:24Take care.
32:31Beza.
32:31Beza.
32:31Beza.
32:33Beza.
32:35Send.
32:48Neil went off on a strategy which I have no involvement in.
32:54So, he didn't ask your advice?
32:55Didn't tell he was doing it?
32:56No.
32:57He went rogue a bit.
32:58Have a cup of tea and a still water, please.
33:01What cup of tea was that?
33:02Just a normal cup of tea.
33:03He was...
33:03Creates a complete new identity.
33:06False memories.
33:09I mean, talk about creative license.
33:12But that was it.
33:13You can't take it back once you've done it.
33:15And he'd done it already.
33:15He'd created Beza Dougal.
33:17And it was underway.
33:18So, things were happening.
33:21Hi, Beza.
33:22His name is Vajra Sambhava.
33:24He lives in Brisbane, Australia.
33:26He's 82 and chipper.
33:28He's alive.
33:30Oh, you can't...
33:31I couldn't...
33:31So, this old man's not dead, but I still don't know who he is.
33:39But he's alive.
33:42If he'd come back and I'm really sorry he'd died three years ago, then what would I have done?
33:48Yeah, what would you have done?
33:49I don't know.
33:51I would have been devastated.
33:52I mean, that being...
33:53That was just like a lottery, isn't it?
33:55It's a 50-50.
33:56The email was...
33:57It's a 50-50.
33:59It's like tossing a coin.
34:00Dead or alive.
34:01Dead or alive.
34:01Dead or alive.
34:03And he's alive.
34:04It's like everything's meant to be.
34:05We knew that we were getting closer.
34:14So I said to Glenn, let's get on the road to Brisbane.
34:20Before we set off, the chancer in me, I thought I would just push it one step further.
34:27And I emailed Darpan again, explaining to him that I wanted to send the nice old man a birthday card.
34:34His birthday, I wrote 18th of December.
34:38And I knew that Lucan's birthday was the 18th.
34:43Morning.
34:43Morning.
34:44How are you doing?
34:44May I have two coffees?
34:46Of course.
34:46And what was your name?
34:47It's Neil.
34:49Straight away, Darpan wrote back.
34:52And this...
34:53It's incredible.
34:54I told Vajra about your inquiry and he was happy to hear about you.
35:00That was very thoughtful of you to remember his birthday.
35:04Bless Darpan.
35:06Wow.
35:09It's worked a treat.
35:10Absolute treat.
35:12It couldn't have gone any better.
35:13So we were off to Brisbane.
35:20It's a five and a half hour flight on the other side of the country.
35:32Darpan said the old man had a carer.
35:36You can reach him through WhatsApp and here's his number.
35:39So, okay, WhatsApp, I need a photograph for Beza Dougal's WhatsApp profile.
35:53And it couldn't be me.
35:55People would potentially recognise me.
35:58I could use my mate Dougal's.
35:59So, I wrote to the carer.
36:10My name is Beza Dougal.
36:12I knew the nice old man in Perth in a coffee shop in 2002.
36:17I would like to make contact.
36:20Bless.
36:22Beza.
36:24Send.
36:26Good luck, Beza.
36:27Brisbane.
36:32Population two and a half million.
36:36Wherever he was, we needed to be ready.
36:41Armed.
36:43Three yellow lights.
36:46Recording.
36:51I bought out my boys' toys.
36:53I was desperate to use them.
37:01The tech side is my responsibility.
37:04I'm a bit old in the tooth for it, to be honest.
37:06But, um, max is 45 minutes on these.
37:10And then you're done.
37:11So you've got to get in and out.
37:12For Neil, he's obviously stressed about this whole endeavour and is very emotionally invested.
37:33Do you ever see that getting in the way?
37:36It does get in the way, but at the same time, he does understand the boundaries.
37:43You know, as long as he keeps cool, as long as he keeps calm and doesn't do anything irrational or stupid, great.
37:49I've got a message from the old man's carer.
38:07Through all this lying and deceit, I now have an address.
38:12There he is there.
38:15Here we go.
38:16Look at the size of them.
38:18It's a big house, three layers, on quite a posh, wide Queensland Avenue on the outskirts of Brisbane.
38:25All right, so from Lansborough, Queensland to Mitchelton, 4053, I reckon we should get the train.
38:46It's all about relaxed, being relaxed, confident, casual.
38:50They didn't know that we were coming.
39:02We set off and then realised there was a problem.
39:08I couldn't be Beza Dougal because I didn't look like Beza Dougal.
39:14Because I'd already sent a picture on of Beza Dougal.
39:18Your friend Dougal?
39:19Yeah, well, actually, my friend Dougal.
39:23So they would have recognised me of not being somebody with white hair and a beard.
39:27Two more stops.
39:29The next station is Mitchelton.
39:30Oh, God.
39:32I said to Glenn, what are we going to do?
39:34He said, I don't know.
39:36I said, the only thing that I can think of doing is Beza Dougal's dead.
39:41The story that Neil concocted, we were there to deliver some bad news.
39:50We're friends of Beza Dougal.
39:52We'd been asked by the family to say thank you to the old man for his emotional support that he'd given to him all those years before in the coffee shop at Perth.
40:02Any attended station?
40:03This is us.
40:04We're here.
40:07Mitchelton station.
40:09Oh, God, what are we doing?
40:12Press the button.
40:14Oh, shit.
40:14Hang on, it's over here.
40:16Oh, I see.
40:17We're at a point where I was absolutely shitting myself now.
40:26Hold it up here.
40:27That's it.
40:30One, two, three.
40:34There you go.
40:34See that?
40:35See the light?
40:36Well, everything was riding on those glasses.
40:38Well, let's just get past the door.
40:40Yeah, OK, stop getting on with me.
40:42OK, um, OK, let's go.
40:45I'll follow you.
40:45Let's go.
40:45Let's do it, then.
40:47Oh, my God.
41:02Hiya.
41:03Hello, boys.
41:04OK.
41:05All right, let's just do it.
41:08Walking towards the house, it hits me.
41:13Do you actually realise, Neil, that maybe we've tracked somebody down that's one of the biggest stories ever?
41:24The person that murdered my mother?
41:28Panic struck.
41:30I said, look, I'm telling you now, I'm not going in that house.
41:33Were you worried about what he might do?
41:37Not really, no, because I knew he was old.
41:39Were you worried about what you might do?
41:43It went through my mind.
41:45Come on, Neil.
41:45Come on, Neil.
41:48Let's just do it.
41:49You'll be fine.
41:51You know, and your heart is pounding away at a rate of knots.
41:56And then he was getting quite cross.
41:59You've got to go in, they ask you in.
42:00You've got to go in.
42:02Come on, Neil.
42:02You can do it.
42:03You can do it.
42:05Come on.
42:05Come on.
42:07Come on.
42:07It's only over there.
42:08I'm glad Glenn was with me.
42:14He's my mate.
42:15He's my partner in crime.
42:17This is the one.
42:19There's your porch.
42:20There you go.
42:20Knock on the door.
42:21The strange thing is that when we got to the door, I changed.
42:43I want this.
42:45I ran this way.
42:47All right?
42:48All right?
42:49All right?
42:51The carer came down the stairs.
42:54Yeah, yeah.
42:54After Vajra, Chris.
42:55Yeah.
42:56Yeah, certainly.
42:56I knew that I had to be somebody else, but I didn't think of a name until I was standing
43:03at the bottom of the stairs when the carer came down, and then I just said, I'm Pete.
43:08I'm Pete.
43:09I'm Glenn.
43:10Nice to meet you.
43:10How are you doing?
43:11Who is Glenn?
43:12Glenn.
43:14I'm a friend of Dougal's.
43:17Yeah?
43:17There's a Dougal.
43:18Yes, there is a Dougal.
43:18Better.
43:19And we're here.
43:21We're here on business.
43:22Yeah.
43:22And I'll go back.
43:24Literally, it's all like 10 minutes.
43:26Come on.
43:26And, um...
43:27The carer referred to the old man as Christopher, and a quick dive into the property records
43:38showed that the place was rented by a Christopher Bell.
43:41Another identity.
43:44The carer said Christopher was in his office.
44:05I'll go and get him.
44:06And then out of this door just comes this old man.
44:17Barger, Christopher.
44:20And I remember Glenn's name.
44:23I'm Pete.
44:24And Pete, yes, I heard it.
44:26Nice to meet you.
44:28Nice to meet you.
44:28Nice to meet you.
44:32And...
44:32We're here on business.
44:35Yeah.
44:35And Bezerdugle, been in touch on a friend of Bezerdugle.
44:43I'll be able to find in that picture.
44:44Yeah.
44:45I shook his hand.
44:49I'm Pete, but inside I'm Neil.
44:53And I kept thinking, right, OK, this is a means to an end,
44:56a means to an end.
44:57So I had to explain to them that Bezerdugle was dead.
45:02Yes, there he is, there.
45:03I said, that's the picture, obviously,
45:05the thing in the mind of Bezerdugle, you know.
45:07The vague memories in my life.
45:12I made so many of I travelled.
45:17And you're English, we were told by Bezerdugle.
45:20You're English, you're right.
45:22Where from, from?
45:23From London.
45:25You're from Belgravia, aren't you, London?
45:28You've been in Belgravia, I think, do you?
45:30Well, yeah, I, I, I suppose, I was brought up by the Theosophical Movement.
45:37He'd been brought up by the Theosophical Movement.
45:41You couldn't make it up.
45:42We can match that with Hugh Bingham, who was in the Theosophical Society in South Africa,
45:49his own brother.
45:52That's a beautiful photo.
45:54He was quite relaxed.
45:56He seemed happy to have his photo taken.
45:59These phones are amazing these days.
46:00It was quite weird.
46:06The old man, he was on the verge of opening up about his past.
46:11It was like two people had come from England and he was excited.
46:17I grew up with the princesses and they knew of them, especially Margaret.
46:22Princess Margaret?
46:23Yeah, we were great friends and I.
46:27He knew Princess Margaret.
46:30And we knew that Luke had mixed in the same social circles as Princess Margaret.
46:35My father originally was the baker's chef at the Baton Rouge.
46:41Oh, really?
46:41I don't know how I got to meet all that crowd.
46:44He said that he, as a child, used to go to the kitchens
46:47and he knew the princesses and Margaret particularly well.
46:52He could conceivably have met her.
46:54It's possible, yes.
46:56But would he have been allowed in the kitchens of Buckingham Palace
46:59when his father was working there?
47:01Would Princess Margaret have been down in the kitchens
47:04having such a great time with the son of the baker's hand?
47:09Unlikely.
47:10She was a pretty good little level there, though, for you.
47:14Oh, yeah, look, I think you won't.
47:16You can only push your luck for so long.
47:23Neil's fuse was beginning to burn down.
47:26The whole conversation I wanted to turn into,
47:31actually, you bastard, I know you're Lord Lucan.
47:38Anger leads to mistakes.
47:41We just imagine you at the card table, throwing cards and all around.
47:45Oh, yeah.
47:45Neil, we've got a flight.
47:48I called him Neil.
47:50He's just called me Neil.
47:52Neil, I just want to say it's been a pleasure meeting you.
47:55Nobody noticed.
47:58I want him out.
48:00He's talking about cards.
48:01He's becoming a loose cannon.
48:03Let's get out.
48:04I would have taken it further if it weren't for Glenn.
48:06Thank you for your time.
48:07Bye-bye.
48:09Bye-bye.
48:10Take care.
48:11And you take care.
48:12We're trying to solve Britain's biggest murder mystery.
48:22No-one finds Lord Lucan.
48:25So how do you feel?
48:26I fucking murder him, haven't I?
48:28This path has been littered with skeletons of my journalistic colleagues for decades before
48:36me.
48:37I know it's Princess Margaret really well.
48:40Do you think it's him?
48:41I don't think it is.
48:42You're sure now?
48:44A million years.
48:44No-one goes wandering into an old man's house in Brisbane and finds the man hunted by so
48:56many people for so many years.
48:59It can't be him.
49:01Can it?
49:04English walks like a toff, arms behind his back.
49:09He's the same age as Lucan, and the same birthday.
49:21The Interpol arrest warrant states that he's got blue eyes.
49:26This man has blue eyes.
49:29Do you think there is a chance that he is still alive?
49:31I hope he is.
49:32Sadatessa, Vajra.
49:34He can be anywhere, I just don't know.
49:36Derek Crowther, Adam Cadman, which means new man.
49:40Do you think he's altered his appearance at all?
49:42Again, I don't know.
49:44Christopher Newman, literally new man, and now Christopher Bell.
49:50He writes to Stephen, you want me to come clean?
49:53I would if I could.
49:55He writes in Capitals.
49:58Elsie said that he talked about having a family back in London.
50:01It comes from Belgravia, New Princess Margaret, Theosophical Society.
50:12There's roughly 35,000 theosophists in the whole world.
50:17I have done the mass.
50:19The chances of bumping into another theosophist is one in 228,000.
50:24That's Lucan.
50:33Of course that's Lucan, all day long.
50:35The hunger of theosophist.
50:36Every one in 228,000 theosophist, won the Asia.
50:45It came from this desert, theري
50:58as an fool.
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