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00:00The arrest is the pivotal moment in any investigation.
00:07If you get it wrong, then it's game over.
00:16Police officer with a taser.
00:18Taser, taser, taser!
00:20Taser, taser, taser!
00:26Don't do some screaming!
00:40Everything they're doing is on body-worn video.
00:42Police!
00:44Everything they're doing will be examined by defence lawyers.
00:48They can't make any mistakes.
00:51I haven't done anything wrong!
01:09It's nine days after one of Britain's biggest riots of summer 2024.
01:18Now, police prepare to arrest one of the ringleaders.
01:23The risk assessment would have been high.
01:27I would estimate six officers going to arrest him
01:29because we don't know what he would have been faced with.
01:32We don't know if he'd have known this was coming and prepared himself.
01:36So they're not going to take any chances.
01:38Thomas Burley had attacked officers as he tried to burn down a hotel.
01:45Now, police had found him.
01:48Hey, put your hand up for us.
01:49What's your name?
01:51Thomas Burley.
01:53He was involved in some of the worst of the violence.
01:56Thomas, your address is okay for violent disorder.
01:59And ask him in the tent to cause danger, okay?
02:01Do you have to say anything, but it may have made a face when it makes me any questions.
02:03If you're late, I'm caught him.
02:05Can you do a safe, never given evidence?
02:06At the end of the day, this is somebody who's just tried to burn a hotel down
02:09and chucked weapons at officers.
02:12So that shows how hostile he is towards officers.
02:18Thomas Burley was a 27-year-old who was from nearby.
02:23He was from a place called Swinton in Rotherham, in South Yorkshire.
02:27And he'd gone because he wanted to voice his opinion.
02:31That's what he told a probation officer.
02:35He was part of a group who smashed the lower windows of the Holiday Inn.
02:38And he was also part of a group who helped put fuel on a fire
02:44that was up against the fire door of the hotel.
02:51He climbed up onto railings and he helped grab wood and place it
02:56into an industrial bin that was now burning up against that fire door.
03:00There were people on the other side of that fire door.
03:03They heard their fire alarms going off.
03:04They could smell the smoke.
03:07In evidence in court, they said that they feared they were going to die.
03:10The background to nine days of riots was a crime that broke the nation's heart.
03:35Some breaking news.
03:36Merseyside police are attending a major incident in Southport in which a number of people are reported seriously injured.
03:52A teenager carrying a large kitchen knife entered a Taylor Swift themed yoga and dance workshop for 6 to 11 year olds.
04:02It was the start of the school summer holidays.
04:0626 children were attending.
04:07Three girls are dead in Southport after being attacked by a man brandishing a knife.
04:18Elsie Dot Stankham age 7, Alice Da Silva Aguia age 9 and BB King age 6 died despite strenuous efforts by police and paramedics.
04:30Eight other children and two adults are being treated for serious injuries.
04:35The suspect was arrested at the scene.
04:38It was probably one of the most horrendous incidents in living memory that then set off a chain of events in Southport.
04:47A false report spreads on social media that the killer is a Muslim asylum seeker.
04:55Within 24 hours peaceful tributes to the victims give way to violence.
05:14Immigration is a genuine concern for the UK.
05:16And a lot of what we saw within those riots, I think, was motivated from the false information that was provided over social media about certain individuals involved.
05:30Police and government couldn't keep up with the speed of false stories circulating online.
05:36The use of social media and the false rumour mill that occurred did add a level of manipulation to people's mindsets.
05:44And, of course, what happened in that vacuum of information in the very short hours and the days following what happened in Southport,
05:51it gave them something to hold on to.
05:53It gave them somebody to blame.
05:56And as a result of that, they felt justified.
05:58They felt morally justified to behave in that way.
06:03In Southport, a crowd targets a local mosque, trapping nine people inside.
06:08We've seen protesters, a crowd here, throwing objects at a mosque that is just on the corner of this junction here.
06:16They've been clashing now violently with police, throwing objects at the police, clashing with officers in riot gear.
06:23And this really is a very tense situation.
06:24It's the start of two days of violence in Southport that will see 71 police officers injured.
06:32This is high-quality media footage which shows clearly people's faces and those throwing rocks and things at the police.
06:41And it shows how a huge group of mainly young men are attacking far fewer police officers.
06:50The police officers have deployed shields, they've got riot vans there, but they're simply being pushed back.
06:57And we see that the crowd have attacked one vehicle and managed to set it on fire.
07:01Highly dangerous considering that vehicles are full of fuel in a crowded area.
07:07Walls or buildings have been attacked to take bricks down so those bricks can be used as weapons against the police.
07:17And we see officers being dragged away, have obviously been injured.
07:21And the sad thing is that many of these officers would have been involved in investigating the murder and may well have seen the awfulness of that crime and know they faced being attacked.
07:38TV news shows rioters acting with little fear of the law, notably few arrests, but for good reason.
07:45Mostly during a riot, the first consideration is to try and safely contain the riots and that public disturbance where it is.
07:57Officers have the option and the ability to arrest people if they need to, but there are some significant issues involved in arresting somebody during a riot situation.
08:07Having to arrest an individual or a group of people takes important team members away from that front line.
08:13So you have 10 officers trying to deal with hundreds of people.
08:18They're utterly outnumbered.
08:20They simply have to retreat, but that just sends the wrong message out to the public who think the police are afraid.
08:27And of course, it emboldens the rioters.
08:30In those circumstances, the main thing is to contain it.
08:34The moment an officer makes an arrest, that officer and several others may be taken out of the actual squad that are dealing with the riot as it is.
08:41Get back! Get back! Get back!
08:47Soon, fuelled by wrong information, riots will break out in 27 towns and cities.
08:53In Darlington, the dilemma for police is clear when confronted by one rioter throwing rocks.
09:07Here we see some excellent work between the CCTV operator and officers on the ground.
09:11Excuse me, I can help with that one. Car park.
09:18St Augustine's Wade, in Gladstone Street, is a male with a body warmer, great body warmer, blue head overall, blue shorts, white socks, black trainers.
09:28He is a suspect who would be looking to arrest him.
09:31Can you get a hold of him on camera?
09:35You can see straight away he's not a very good throw because the brick has gone in a completely different direction, which instantly highlights just how reckless that is that's gone towards somebody's house.
09:48The police are almost stuck between a rock and a hard place themselves because if they fail to address his behaviour at this early moment when there aren't many people on the streets, they run the risk that his behaviour in fact motivates those around him to continue the same behaviour.
10:08If they do try and arrest this male though, they also run the risk that that causes motivation for those around him to then shadow the behaviour that he's doing.
10:23Go, go, go, go!
10:31So, a decision has been made to arrest him.
10:33Get your hand behind your back! Get your hand behind your back here now!
10:36No!
10:38They've technically gone out and snatched him, they've arrested him.
10:41Get your hand behind your back! Get your hand behind your back here now!
10:43No!
10:45Some of those officers are controlling him on the ground.
10:50Of course, one minute this individual is happy to throw rocks at police and the next minute he's on the floor screaming.
10:59The cuffs!
11:00He's cuffed, detained, some rigid cuffs are put on him and driving off anybody else who tries to interfere him.
11:12Notice what's happened though. In arresting him, what's happened to the demeanour of the crowd. They've used this now as an excuse to get angrier, to aim the anger at the police.
11:21Move back! It's a child!
11:24Move back! Get your hand behind your back now!
11:28So, the police are now in a difficult situation.
11:30Move back! Get your hand behind your back now!
11:33Get your hand behind your back now! Get your hand behind your back now!
11:36After his arrest, the 18-year-old rioter is jailed for 18 months.
11:46But elsewhere, police face even bigger decisions.
11:50To make arrests.
11:52Or save lives.
11:53As social media spreads false information about the Southport murders, Rotherham in South Yorkshire is the next big flashpoint.
12:12The police became aware of a protest and the potential counter-protest at the Holiday Inn.
12:27The hotel is housing more than 200 people seeking asylum in the UK.
12:33It was widely known that there were asylum seekers being housed there.
12:37There had been previous demonstrations in the past.
12:39Those demonstrations had largely gone off peacefully.
12:46A proportion of policing response was put in based on the intelligence that we received.
12:55Obviously, it spiralled to something way beyond that.
13:00And all of a sudden, there was a fairly swift influx of a lot of people, extra people there,
13:07that we didn't think was going to be there in some serious numbers.
13:16And there was then a sort of growing swell of anger.
13:21It was like what we say in the police, it was bubbling.
13:24It's like boiling water, it's starting to go.
13:26It's starting to sort of tip over the edge and then it quickly turned into the mob rule and the disgraceful violence and aggression that we saw.
13:35I arrived at about three o'clock.
13:49The police had just started to close the main road.
13:55You can smell a fire. You can smell the smoke.
14:01And the closer you get to the hotel, the more people are there.
14:06And there were just hundreds and hundreds of people.
14:15You could see the line of police surrounding the hotel.
14:19You could see the smashed windows.
14:21The noise was one of people shouting, people screaming, the police shouting.
14:31And the fire alarms going off as well inside the hotel.
14:37The fire alarms telling people that you have to leave.
14:40And obviously, people weren't leaving.
14:41It was almost like a war zone.
14:52So that building goes up and you then got 200 to 250 people inside and those people die.
15:00Then we're looking at a mass murderer or we're looking at a team of mass murderers here who have done this.
15:05And to think about treating other human beings like that, as well as our officers, is absolutely important.
15:11They thought, well, no one likes the police anyway, so we're almost doing a public service here and attacking them.
15:17And that's the shocking part of it.
15:20A lot of people went in there as a way to gather weapons that would then be used against officers.
15:28There were police inside the hotel, protecting sort of like an inner cordon effectively inside the property.
15:36People were inside that building, worried for their lives.
15:40The staff, in panic rooms, scared about what was happening.
15:45And the police, I'm sure, had one priority in that and that was safety.
15:51Once again, rioters appear beyond the law.
15:54No one is being seen to be arrested.
15:58Very quickly, it became obvious that those officers in Rotherham were far outnumbered.
16:04And their own priorities would have very quickly changed to keep themselves safe, whilst trying at the same time to provide a layer of protection to those people within the hotel.
16:14The truth there was that they were just as vulnerable at times as those in the hotel.
16:20Those officers were in a very, very dangerous position.
16:27To be blunt, I was terrified some people were going to be killed, some of our officers were going to be killed, as well as the people in the hotel.
16:34We're in there!
16:35There were a number of police horses there and they were using the dogs as well to keep people away.
16:40And the horses were being sent through the crowds to try and disperse them.
16:45And when the horses came through, it was followed by bottles, stones, bricks, anything that people could grab, they threw.
16:53Outnumbered, the police used video to help arrest rioters.
17:01You've got the evidence gatherers who were there who were filming with high-pad cameras.
17:04The quality is incredible.
17:07You can pick someone's face up from hundreds of yards away.
17:12Then they identify the people.
17:15When you have any mass disorder, the police can use drones with special pilots who can film.
17:22And we've got the police helicopter also gathering critical video evidence.
17:27But also you have these forward intelligence officers who have handheld video equipment and they will video the whole crowd.
17:34So they get two things.
17:35They get the actual overall pattern of the disorder that you can then subsequently show to a court.
17:41But also they'll be capturing individual faces and looking for that moment.
17:44These officers will be surrounded by the riot police and protected by other officers with shields and batons.
18:00One police camera records a rioter in a red mask.
18:04And the moment he gives himself away.
18:06He had a black puffer jacket on and this red scarf that he pulled up to cover the lower part of his face.
18:15But he was also filmed walking towards a police line pulling down that mask and shouting towards the police.
18:27And again we see that in this evidence that is filmed by South Yorkshire police and presented as evidence.
18:31Some body-worn video from some of the officers from behind riot shields showed him picking up a bin, throwing it towards police, bouncing off their riot shields.
18:48He was filmed taking part in some of the worst of the violence that day.
18:52And then it's a case of following him, then the investigation officers would have then followed his behaviour before that and after that.
19:05And that's when he would have been caught doing the things he did.
19:09And obviously the big one was helping try and set the fire in terms of the bins into the corner.
19:16But he also at one point got hold of a police baton and was waving it at officers.
19:21And that, again, that mindlessness.
19:26He hasn't thought to think that the officers are going to remember that.
19:29And, you know, it's going to be clear as day, oh, look at that individual there who was waving a police baton around.
19:34So it all formed part of his greater behaviour as one of the main protagonists in all of this.
19:39And it's just crazy. It's crazy behaviour.
19:51Police had identified Thomas Burley, a local painter and decorator with previous convictions for criminal damage, attacking emergency workers and aggravated harassment.
20:04Now, officers go to arrest him.
20:06So there have been a number of officers going there because we don't know what we'd have been faced with.
20:12Hey, he's put your hands up for us.
20:13I don't know what he's mad.
20:14What's your name? Thomas Burley.
20:16You can see there, when you look at his face, that it's suddenly dawned on him that they've got him.
20:23And you can see the panic in his eyes.
20:27He knows that justice has caught up with him.
20:30I don't know what he's mad.
20:31What's your name? Thomas Burley.
20:32When he says, I'm Thomas Burley, it seems to be that then he doesn't say another word as he's being let out to the van or the car that's waiting outside for him.
20:43He seems shocked that he's having the handcuffs clicked onto his wrists.
20:46And this is not the same Thomas Burley that we saw shouting at police officers 11 days before.
20:56It's really satisfying to actually see that because he's getting his comeuppance there for what he's done.
21:01And again, for the viewers who may have had a view on we should have been arrested there and then, this is the most appropriate and safest way to do that.
21:08You know, because he, as soon as he dropped his face mask, this was just inevitable.
21:13Did you not say anything, but it may have made a face, it doesn't mention any questions.
21:17Something you feel late, I'm caught. Everything you do is safe, never given evidence.
21:20That's the moment that was his last bit of freedom in that home being told that he is about to be arrested on suspicion of a very, very serious offence.
21:28Thomas Burley was jailed for nine years, then the longest sentence for anyone taking part in the riots of 2024.
21:52We've seen many people be sentenced for violent disorder in these courts,
21:57but this has been the highest prison term handed out across the country.
22:01Burley was told he would serve nine years in prison and even when released, would have a further five years on licence.
22:10The judge said that he'd considered a life sentence. A life sentence is for the most dangerous of criminals.
22:19And the judge said that he considered that. He considered Burley to be a very dangerous offender.
22:25To get what he did, nine years in prison, it's a long time.
22:32He knows down well his actions could have caused the death or serious injury of a lot of people.
22:38So is nine years a lot? No, I don't think so. Not at all.
22:42At least 80 people have been jailed following arrests for taking part in the Rotherham riot.
22:52I thought that these will all get pieced together and these arrests would follow, but that also rewind back to the mob mentality.
23:01They surely weren't that stupid to not expect a knock at the door in the following days and weeks.
23:06There's just cameras everywhere and everything piecing together. It's just like making a jigsaw.
23:10With 64 officers injured, police finally took control of the Rotherham riot.
23:22As people started to disperse and the crowd size shrank and the more police arrived and they got more of a grip on it.
23:32They did start to arrest people. There were people that were arrested on the day.
23:36I remember one person was arrested because he'd been bitten by a police dog.
23:40We've since seen him go through the courts.
23:43So there were a lot of people who were arrested on the day, but the quality of the cameras, the quality of the video,
23:49meant that I think a lot of people were picked up many days after this incident.
24:06Police and paramedics respond to a 999 call. A man stabbed, fighting to survive.
24:24The only suspect, his wife.
24:27How many times have you stabbed him?
24:30I did the once.
24:31You did the once?
24:32Once, I thought I'd get his heart. Well, he hasn't got one.
24:36And then twice in the afternoon.
24:40This would have become a category one incident and that would have seen a double crew ambulance,
24:46a rapid response vehicle, the helicopter emergency medical service,
24:50or a critical care paramedic being sent to scene.
24:57Hi, madam. Do you want to just step outside for me a minute?
25:02Can you come outside?
25:04Yes.
25:06He's on the kitchen floor.
25:08OK, at this moment in time, OK, can you just listen to my colleague?
25:13Under arrest, suspicion of intent murder, mate.
25:15Under arrest, suspicion of intent murder.
25:17You do not have to say anything about it, mate.
25:19It may harm your defence.
25:20If you do not mention one question, anything you're later lying in court.
25:23And if you do say, you may be given an evidence.
25:26Um...
25:27I'll go in and see what they're doing.
25:28Yeah.
25:29Could I get them a coat?
25:30Just bear with me two seconds, all right?
25:32In there.
25:33I admit it all.
25:35Police aren't used to people admitting things.
25:38I admit it all.
25:41The officers will be surprised, shocked almost, that she's being so frank about what she's done.
25:48They'll probably be asking themselves, what's the subplot here?
25:51What's going on that we don't know about?
25:56Why is she acting so calmly, so matter-of-factly about what she's done?
26:01David was Penny's fourth husband, and Penny was his third wife.
26:12They were both strong characters.
26:14They would clash occasionally, especially when alcohol was involved.
26:18Penny Jackson was a 66-year-old retired accountant with the Ministry of Defence.
26:25David Jackson was 78, a retired lieutenant colonel in the army.
26:30He was also a strong character.
26:32He could be quite controlling, people said, and liked things done a certain way.
26:46Before the arrest, David Jackson had dialed 999, needing urgent help.
26:52He tells the operator, I've been stabbed.
26:57And it's at that point you hear on the 999 call, Penny stab him for a second and a third time, and drops the phone.
27:04And from then on, Penny picks up the phone, and she's in charge of the 999 call, while David is moaning in the background.
27:11And are you with him now?
27:16Well, I might just go and stab him again, but...
27:20All right, do not stab him again.
27:22Why?
27:23It's an odd call, isn't it?
27:25These calls don't happen very often, and the emergency call operator who was handling that call must have been thinking,
27:33Is this real?
27:35How many times have you stabbed him?
27:38I did the once.
27:39You did the once?
27:41And then, he said, I wouldn't do it again.
27:43So I...
27:45So how...
27:46OK.
27:47So in total, how many times?
27:49Uh, three times.
27:50Three times.
27:51OK.
27:52So just listen to my voice.
27:54OK.
27:55Stay on the line with me.
27:56I am...
27:57I am...
27:58OK.
27:59Sounding a little bit inebriated, and then coming up with that, that phrase saying, I'm compus mentis.
28:05These are things that those of us who've worked in emergency services often find are somewhat of a contradiction.
28:12OK.
28:13Are you with the patient now?
28:15Well, I'm in the lounge and people in the kitchen bleeding to death with any luck.
28:20Police would have been deployed, and there would be 10 emergency vehicles on scene, and perhaps as many as 20 people on scene.
28:32Quiet street, lots of engines rumbling, blue lights flashing.
28:40You can see from the body-worn video footage that their first priority when they've arrived on scene was to go and support the resuscitation efforts for David Jackson.
28:50Right, get the ambulance in pronto, we need CPR.
28:53Oh, don't.
28:54The priority of the police going to any incident is preservation of life.
28:58That trumps everything.
28:59That trumps forensic preservation.
29:01It trumps searching for witnesses.
29:03It even trumps arrests.
29:04If you can save a life, that is the first thing you do.
29:08One group of officers dealt with Penny.
29:11The others went in to try and deal with David.
29:14They know that something dreadful has happened and they've got a woman there admitting being responsible for it.
29:21So, they brought her outside because that's the safest place for her to be.
29:26We can see by the shadows there's a number of officers around.
29:29OK, at this moment in time, OK, do you need to listen to my colleague?
29:35Under arrest, suspicion, and accept murder, mate.
29:36Under arrest, suspicion, and accept murder.
29:39What strikes me is that the person that actually, the officer that actually makes the arrest,
29:43seems to be a student officer in training.
29:47And I say that for a couple of reasons.
29:49One is that another officer effectively tells him to arrest her on suspicion of attempted murder.
29:58Under arrest, suspicion, and accept murder, mate.
30:00Under arrest, suspicion, and accept murder.
30:02And he says those words in exactly the same words as he's been told to say it.
30:07So, that strikes me as somebody that's learning their craft.
30:11You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence.
30:14If you do not mention when questioned, anything you're later relying on in court.
30:17And if you do say, maybe given an evidence.
30:19He seems slightly kind of nervous.
30:21I mean, who wouldn't be in this situation anyway?
30:24When I was a student officer, I never arrested anybody for attempted murder.
30:27It's normally shoplifting, drink drivers, assaults, that sort of thing.
30:32To make an arrest for an attempt murder, presumably that early in your career,
30:37is something that will stick with that officer for a long time.
30:40Under arrest, suspicion, and accept murder.
30:42You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence.
30:45When Jackson's arrested on suspicion of attempted murder, she says,
30:50hopefully not in relation to the attempted murder.
30:54You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence.
30:57She wants this to be murder.
30:59She wants her husband to have died.
31:01Could I have kept my coat?
31:03Just bear with me two seconds, all right?
31:05In there.
31:06All she's worried about is her coat.
31:08She's been arrested for attempted murder.
31:10She must know she's going to go to prison for a long time.
31:13She's just worried about her coat.
31:15All about her.
31:16Ow!
31:17Just wait two seconds.
31:18Jackson is put in handcuffs, which she instantly complains about are too tight.
31:24And she's led away from the house so that police and paramedics
31:28can try and save David's life.
31:31When they put the handcuffs on, she's obviously not fighting,
31:37but that's not to say that she won't,
31:39because it might suddenly occur to her that,
31:42actually, I'm in a whole lot of trouble here,
31:44so she might end up becoming violent.
31:47Desperate attempts continue to save the life of David Jackson.
31:51A path is cleared for the arrival of paramedics.
31:55If there's any luck, you'll be too late.
31:58Get the ambulance in pronto. We need CPR.
32:01Oh, don't.
32:02No, no, no, please don't.
32:04Has she got an arrow?
32:05Yeah, we need the ambulance in to CPR.
32:06We should have stabbed him a bit more.
32:07We've got CPR being done at the moment.
32:09All right.
32:10Yeah.
32:11Come on.
32:12Come with me, mate.
32:13So here the officer is doing exactly what the officer should do
32:16and calling for the ambulance to come in
32:18to perform more specialised life support.
32:22Should have stabbed him a bit more.
32:25I think if she could, she'd have stood in their way
32:27and stopped them getting in.
32:29She was that disappointed that there was a chance
32:31that her husband was going to survive.
32:33And if I haven't done it properly, I'm really annoyed.
32:50Inside a small bungalow on the Somerset seaside,
32:54paramedics try to save the life of David Jackson, aged 78,
33:00stabbed three times by his wife Penny, aged 66.
33:05Under arrest, a suspicion of set murder.
33:08You do not have to say anything about it.
33:10It may harm your defence.
33:12With domestic violence murders,
33:14there's usually a back story to them.
33:17Yes.
33:18I stabbed him.
33:20Once.
33:23Because he's a...
33:25No, I'm going to send them all back.
33:28He's an aggressive bully and nasty, and I've had enough.
33:38And when he said...
33:41You wouldn't do it, I did it twice more.
33:47When she says on camera that he goaded her,
33:51he was an aggressive bully...
33:53He's an aggressive bully and nasty,
33:57and I've had enough.
33:59You know, she says those things,
34:00and to a degree they may be true,
34:03but the way she says them,
34:05it's almost as if by killing him,
34:09she's got one up on him.
34:11And when he said...
34:14You wouldn't do it, I did it twice more.
34:17For years, there had been rising tension
34:29between Penny and David Jackson.
34:33Penny was described as goading her husband
34:37sometimes into a fight, into arguments,
34:40and would put him down,
34:42and a lot of David's family
34:44would eventually not speak to Penny
34:47because they disliked how she treated him.
34:58Penny was sending David text saying that she couldn't cope,
35:02that he frightened her,
35:06and that she didn't want to grow old like this.
35:21When the COVID-19 lockdowns happened,
35:24this just seemed to make things all the more worse.
35:27They were stuck together in the house,
35:29and Penny actually posted something on her Facebook page,
35:33quarantined with hubby for two weeks.
35:35Gertrude is knitting something special for him,
35:38and the image that went along with this
35:40was a woman knitting a noose for her husband.
35:43There'd been a call to the police
35:53where there'd been a row about remote control,
35:57and David had been verbally violent,
36:00and Penny had locked him in the conservatory,
36:03and David smashed his way out of the conservatory.
36:13The years of feuding came to a head on February the 13th, 2021.
36:21They were sitting down in their house
36:23to a birthday Zoom meal
36:25with their daughter Isabel and her husband,
36:28where they'd each cooked a meal at their own houses,
36:30and they were sharing it over their laptops,
36:32watching each other.
36:34Penny and David had fallen out seriously
36:36over something as small as Penny serving Bubble and Squeak
36:40rather than potatoes with the meal.
36:42Bubble and Squeak is just a fried-up collection of vegetables.
36:46It's thought of as a bit of a sort of peasant dish,
36:49and David thought that something better
36:52should have been served alongside their meal.
36:55A lot of alcohol had been drunk,
36:58and people would say after a lot of alcohol had been drunk,
37:01Penny would get abusive.
37:05First, Penny Jackson grabbed a kitchen knife.
37:14She told David that she was going to kill herself,
37:17and when he said that she was pathetic for saying that,
37:20that is when she stabbed him.
37:22She stabs him in the chest.
37:25He gets up, it hasn't been a fatal blow,
37:28and he walks to the kitchen.
37:31He calls 999 and tells the operator,
37:35I've been stabbed.
37:37From then on, Penny picks up the phone.
37:41Are you with him now?
37:43Well, I might just go and stab him again.
37:46All right, do not stab him again.
37:49Taken into custody after being arrested for attempted murder,
37:53Penny Jackson appeared unconcerned about her husband.
38:01What colour's your coat?
38:02Go in the front, in the front.
38:04Yeah.
38:05Grey wardrobe.
38:07OK, it might be a while, all right?
38:09But I'll try and get...
38:10There's obviously a lot going on, OK?
38:12She's still going on about the coat.
38:14She's sat in the car, still going on about her coat.
38:17If it's only luck, it'll be too late.
38:19My advice is don't talk about it now, OK?
38:22And the officer is trying to protect her from herself,
38:27so the best way for people to make any comment or admissions
38:31about a crime they've committed is in an interview room,
38:34in a police station, having had legal advice
38:37with a solicitor or a legal representative with them,
38:40he's kind of saying, look, come on,
38:41this is not the best place to do it, he's protecting her.
38:44All of the admissions are admissible
38:46because she's being cautioned.
38:48But he's almost saying to her, look, you know,
38:50just take a breath, you know, get some legal advice
38:53and, you know, let's not do it in the back of the police car.
38:56That's not the best place for you.
38:58Yet still she carries on.
39:01I have no intention of not agreeing to what I've done.
39:07She cannot be quiet. She cannot stop admitting it.
39:10I know what I've done. All right.
39:12And I know why I've done it.
39:14And if I haven't done it properly, I'm really annoyed.
39:20Then, a message comes through
39:22that changes the picture dramatically.
39:25And she, rather than throwing her head in her hands
39:29and being shocked and crying and any regret,
39:31her reply is, oh, good.
39:33All right, Penny, I'm arresting,
39:35further arresting you for murder.
39:36Oh, good.
39:37And she, rather than throwing her head in her hands
39:40and being shocked and crying and any regret,
39:43her reply is, oh, good.
39:57All right, Penny, I'm arresting,
39:58further arresting you for murder.
39:59Oh, good.
40:00all right penny um i'm arrested further arresting you for murder
40:03oh good i've already cautioned you so your necessities for your arrest is for
40:08a prompt and effective investigation yeah and stop further harm sorry that one's a bit tight
40:19she's immediately worrying about her handcuffs and how tight her handcuffs are
40:23she doesn't care she doesn't care in fact she's quite delighted that she's finished the job
40:27the mdo's just come out to check your temperature and then we'll move you in just stay there for
40:34the time being she's complaining about not having her coats wanting her slippers the gravity of the
40:46situation doesn't seem to be there step up mindred yeah i'm very sorry for being a nuisance
40:56no just got to take your temperature okay yeah so that would be just really great get covered on the
41:02top of this if i saw video evidence like this as a as an investigator i would be incredulous about the
41:15just the heartless nature of her response
41:27but at her trial despite all her admissions penny jackson claimed she didn't intend to kill her
41:34her husband it was manslaughter not murder penny jackson spent four days giving evidence in the witness box
41:43she was trying to convince the jury that she couldn't remember any of the incriminating things she'd said or done
41:50she would try to feign emotion and cry but it never came across as realistic it never came across as
41:58as genuine emotion a former ministry of defense accountant has been found guilty of murdering her
42:06husband a retired lieutenant colonel penelope jackson age 67 was jailed for life with a minimum term of 18 years
42:15the 999 call and the arrest footage that was captured on the police body cameras was crucial
42:24i think in getting the conviction against penny jackson the judge said penelope jackson had tarnished
42:31the memory of her husband and that while giving evidence over four days she had not shown a shred
42:38of genuine remorse for her terrible crime i've dealt with domestic violence murders in the past where
42:45women have stabbed their partners he's an aggressive bully and nasty and i've had enough
43:08very often it is self-defense very often they have been tipped over the edge by years of of
43:14emotional abuse physical abuse coercive control that's nothing like this and when he said
43:23you wouldn't do it or did it twice more this is cold-blooded murder
43:38you
43:42you
43:44you
43:46you
43:48you
43:50you
43:54you
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