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00:00The Arrest is the pivotal moment in any investigation.
00:13If you get it wrong, then it's game over.
00:22Police officer with a taser!
00:24Taser, taser, taser!
00:30Taser, taser, taser!
00:44Everything they're doing is on body-worn video.
00:46Police!
00:48Everything they're doing would be examined by defence lawyers.
00:54They can't make any mistakes.
00:56I haven't done anything wrong!
01:00It's nine days after one of Britain's biggest riots of summer 2024.
01:18Now, police prepare to arrest one of the ringleaders.
01:28The risk assessment would have been high.
01:30I would estimate six officers going to arrest him because we don't know what he would have been faced with.
01:36We don't know if he'd have known this was coming and prepared himself, so they're not going to take any chances.
01:44Thomas Burley had attacked officers as he tried to burn down a hotel.
01:50Now, police had found him.
01:58He was involved in some of the worst of the violence.
02:00Thomas, you're under arrest, okay, for violence disorder.
02:02And ask him in the tent to cause danger, okay?
02:04Did you ask anything?
02:06But it may have made a fair to mention any questions.
02:08If you're late, I'm caught.
02:09Anything you do say?
02:10I'm never giving evidence.
02:11At the end of the day, this is somebody who's just tried to burn a hotel down and chucked weapons at officers.
02:17So that shows how hostile he is towards officers.
02:20Thomas Burley was a 27-year-old who was from nearby.
02:28He was from a place called Swinton in Rotherham in South Yorkshire.
02:31And he'd gone because he wanted to voice his opinion.
02:35That's what he told a probation officer.
02:38He was part of a group who smashed the lower windows of the Holiday Inn.
02:43And he was also part of a group who helped put fuel on a fire that was up against the fire door of the hotel.
02:56He climbed up onto railings.
02:58And he helped grab wood and place it into an industrial bin that was now burning up against that fire door.
03:05There were people on the other side of that fire door.
03:08They heard their fire alarms going off.
03:10They could smell the smoke.
03:11In evidence in court, they said that they feared they were going to die.
03:15The background to nine days of riots was a crime that broke the nation's heart.
03:40Some breaking news.
03:49Merseyside police are attending a major incident in Southport in which a number of people are reported seriously injured.
03:57A teenager carrying a large kitchen knife entered a Taylor Swift themed yoga and dance workshop for 6 to 11 year olds.
04:07It was the start of the school summer holidays.
04:1026 children were attending.
04:12Three girls are dead in Southport after being attacked by a man brandishing a knife.
04:24Elsie Dot Stankham, age 7, Alice Da Silva Aguia, age 9, and BB King, age 6, died despite strenuous efforts by police and paramedics.
04:35Eight other children and two adults are being treated for serious injuries.
04:40The suspect was arrested at the scene.
04:44It was probably one of the most horrendous incidents in living memory.
04:49That then set off a chain of events in Southport.
04:54A false report spreads on social media that the killer is a Muslim asylum seeker.
05:01Within 24 hours, peaceful tributes to the victims give way to violence.
05:16Immigration is a genuine concern for the UK.
05:22And a lot of what we saw within those riots, I think, was motivated from the false information that was provided over social media about certain individuals involved.
05:34Police and government couldn't keep up with the speed of false stories circulating online.
05:41The use of social media and the false rumour mill that occurred did add a level of manipulation to people's mindsets.
05:49And, of course, what happened in that vacuum of information in the very short hours and the days following what happened in Southport,
05:55it gave them something to hold on to.
05:58It gave them somebody to blame.
06:00And as a result of that, they felt justified.
06:03They felt morally justified to behave in that way.
06:08In Southport, a crowd targets a local mosque, trapping nine people inside.
06:14We've seen protesters, a crowd here, throwing objects at a mosque that is just on the corner of this junction here.
06:21They've been clashing now violently with police, throwing objects at the police, clashing with officers in riot gear.
06:27And this really is a very tense situation.
06:30It's the start of two days of violence in Southport that will see 71 police officers injured.
06:39This is high-quality media footage which shows clearly people's faces and those throwing rocks and things at the police.
06:46And it shows how a huge group of mainly young men are attacking far fewer police officers.
06:54The police officers have deployed shields.
06:57They've got riot vans there.
06:59But they're simply being pushed back.
07:01And we see that the crowd have attacked one vehicle and managed to set it on fire.
07:06Highly dangerous, considering that vehicles are full of fuel in a crowded area.
07:11Walls or buildings have been attacked to take bricks down so those bricks can be used as weapons against the police.
07:22And we see officers being dragged away, have obviously been injured.
07:27And the sad thing is that many of these officers would have been involved in investigating the murder
07:32and may well have seen the awfulness of that crime and know they face being attacked.
07:43TV news shows rioters acting with little fear of the law, notably few arrests, but for good reason.
07:51Mostly during a riot, the first consideration is to try and safely contain the riots and that public disturbance where it is.
07:58Offices have the option and the ability to arrest people if they need to.
08:05But there are some significant issues involved in arresting somebody during a riot situation.
08:11Having to arrest an individual or a group of people takes important team members away from that front line.
08:19So you have ten officers trying to deal with hundreds of people.
08:22They're utterly outnumbered.
08:23They simply have to retreat, but that just sends the wrong message out to the public who think the police are afraid.
08:31And of course, it emboldens the rioters.
08:35In those circumstances, the main thing is to contain it.
08:38The moment an officer makes an arrest, that officer and several others may be taken out of the actual squad that are dealing with the riot as it is.
08:46Get back! Get back! Get back!
08:52Soon, fueled by wrong information, riots will break out in 27 towns and cities.
09:06In Darlington, the dilemma for police is clear when confronted by one rioter throwing rocks.
09:12Here we see some excellent work between the CCTV operator and officers on the ground.
09:19Seems to be out and help with that one.
09:21Car park St Augustine's Way in Gladstone Street.
09:25There's a male with a body warmer, grey body warmer, blue head overall, blue shorts, white socks, black trainers.
09:33He is a suspect who would be looking to arrest you to get a hold of him on camera.
09:44You can see straight away he's not a very good throw because the brick has gone in a completely different direction,
09:48which instantly highlights just how reckless that is that's gone towards somebody's house.
09:53The police are almost stuck between a rock and a hard place themselves because if they fail to address his behaviour at this early moment when there aren't many people on the streets,
10:08they run the risk that his behaviour in fact motivates those around him to continue the same behaviour.
10:13If they do try and arrest this male though, they also run the risk that that causes motivation for those around him to then shadow the behaviour that he's doing.
10:28Go, go, go!
10:29So a decision has been made to arrest it.
10:38Get you out behind your buck! Get you out behind your bucky now!
10:41No!
10:43They've technically gone out and snatched him, they've arrested him.
10:46Get you out behind your buck! Get you out behind your bucky now!
10:48No!
10:50Some of those officers are controlling him on the ground.
10:54Of course one minute this individual is happy to throw rocks at police,
10:58and the next minute he's on the floor screaming.
11:05He's cuffed, detained.
11:08Some rigid cuffs are put on him and driving off anybody else who tries to interfere.
11:17Notice what's happened though, in arresting him, what's happened to the demeanour of the crowd.
11:22They've used this now as an excuse to get angrier, to aim that anger at the police.
11:26Move back!
11:27It's a child!
11:28It's a child!
11:29It's a child!
11:30Move back!
11:31Get those buck now!
11:32Below you!
11:33So the police are now in a difficult situation.
11:35Move back!
11:36Get those buck now!
11:37Below you!
11:38Get back now!
11:39Get back now!
11:41After his arrest, the 18-year-old rioter is jailed for 18 months.
11:46But elsewhere, police face even bigger decisions, to make arrests, or save lives.
11:57As social media spreads false information about the Southport murders, Rotherham in South Yorkshire is the next big flashpoint.
12:16The police became aware of a protest and a potential counter-protest at the Holiday Inn.
12:26The hotel is housing more than 200 people seeking asylum in the UK.
12:37It was widely known that there were asylum seekers being housed there.
12:42There had been previous demonstrations in the past.
12:44Those demonstrations had largely gone off peacefully.
12:50A proportion of policing response was put in based on the intelligence that we received.
12:55Obviously, it spiralled to something way beyond that.
13:05And all of a sudden, there was a fairly swift influx of a lot of people, extra people there,
13:12that intelligence didn't think was going to be there, in some serious numbers.
13:16And there was then a sort of growing swell of anger.
13:25It was all like what we say in the police, it was bubbling.
13:29It's like boiling water, it's starting to go.
13:31It's starting to sort of tip over the edge and then it quickly turned into the mob rule
13:36and the disgraceful violence and aggression that we saw.
13:41I arrived at about three o'clock.
13:56The police had just started to close the main road.
14:01You can smell a fire.
14:04You can smell the smoke.
14:06And the closer you get to the hotel, the more people are there.
14:13And there were just hundreds and hundreds of people.
14:19You could see the line of police surrounding the hotel.
14:24You could see the smashed windows.
14:29The noise was one of...
14:31People shouting, people screaming, the police shouting.
14:38And the fire alarms going off as well inside the hotel.
14:42The fire alarms telling people that you have to leave.
14:45And obviously people weren't leaving.
14:50It was almost like a war zone.
14:55So that building goes up and you've then got 200 to 250 people inside and those people die.
15:05Then we're looking at a mass murderer or we're looking at a team of mass murderers here who've done this.
15:11And to think about treating other human beings like that as well as our officers is absolutely important.
15:15They thought, well, no one likes the police anyway, so one was doing a public service here and attacking them.
15:22And that's the shocking part of it.
15:25A lot of people went in there as a way to gather weapons that would then be used against officers.
15:33There were police inside the hotel protecting sort of like an inner cordon effectively inside the property.
15:41People were inside that building worried for their lives.
15:45The staff in panic rooms scared about what was happening.
15:50And the police I'm sure had one priority in that and that was safety.
15:54Once again, rioters appear beyond the law. No one is being seen to be arrested.
16:03Very quickly, it became obvious that those officers in Rotherham were far outnumbered.
16:09And their own priorities would have very quickly changed to keep themselves safe whilst trying at the same time to provide a layer of protection to those people within the hotel.
16:18The truth there was that they were just as vulnerable at times as those in the hotel.
16:27Those officers were in a very, very dangerous position.
16:32To be blunt, I was terrified some people were going to be killed, some officers were going to be killed as well as the people in the hotel.
16:39They're in there.
16:41There were a number of police officers there and they were using the dogs as well to keep people away.
16:44And the horses were being sent through the crowds to try and disperse them.
16:50And when the horses came through, it was followed by bottles, stones, bricks, anything that people could grab, they threw.
17:02Outnumbered, the police use video to help arrest rioters.
17:05You've got the evidence gatherers who were there who were filming with high-pad cameras.
17:10The quality is incredible.
17:13You can pick someone's face up from hundreds of yards away.
17:17Then they identify the people.
17:20When you have any mass disorder, the police can use drones with special pilots who can film.
17:25And we've got the police helicopter also gathering critical video evidence.
17:32But also you have these forward intelligence officers who have handheld video equipment and they will video the whole crowd.
17:39So they get two things. They get the actual overall pattern of the disorder that you can then subsequently show to a court.
17:45But also they'll be capturing individual faces and looking for that moment.
17:49These officers will be surrounded by the riot police and protected by other officers with shields and batons.
18:04One police camera records a rioter in a red mask and the moment he gives himself away.
18:10He had a black puffer jacket on and this red scarf that he pulled up to cover the lower part of his face.
18:19But he was also filmed walking towards a police line pulling down that mask and shouting towards the police.
18:32And again we see that in this evidence that is filmed by South Yorkshire police and presented as evidence.
18:36Some body-worn video from some of the officers from behind riot shields showed him picking up a bin, throwing it towards police, bouncing off their riot shields.
18:53He was filmed taking part in some of the worst of the violence that day.
18:57And then it's a case of following him. Then the investigation officers would have then followed his behaviour before that and after that and that's when he'd have been caught doing the things he did.
19:12And obviously the big one was helping try and set the fire in terms of the bins into the corner.
19:21But he also at one point got hold of a police baton and was waving it at officers.
19:26And that again, that mindlessness, he hasn't thought to think that the officers are going to remember that.
19:33And, you know, it's going to be clear as day or look at that individual there who was waving a police baton around.
19:38So it all formed part of his greater behaviour as one of the main protagonists in all of this.
19:44And it's just crazy. It's crazy behaviour.
19:47Police had identified Thomas Burley, a local painter and decorator with previous convictions for criminal damage, attacking emergency workers and aggravated harassment.
20:08Now, officers go to arrest him.
20:11So there have been a number of officers going there because we don't know what we'd have been faced with.
20:17Yeah, he's put your hands up on us.
20:19Full name, Thomas Burley.
20:22You can see there when you look at his face that it's suddenly dawned on him that they've got him.
20:28And you can see the panic in his eyes.
20:32He knows that justice has caught up with him.
20:35Full name, Thomas Burley.
20:37When he says, I'm Thomas Burley, it seems to be that then he doesn't say another word as he's being let out to the van or the car that's waiting outside for him.
20:48He seems shocked that he's having the handcuffs clicked onto his wrists.
20:52And this is not the same Thomas Burley that we saw shouting at police officers 11 days before.
21:00It's really satisfying to actually see that because he's getting his comeuppance there for what he's done.
21:06And again, for the viewers who may have had a view on we should have been arrested him there and then, this is the most appropriate and safest way to do that.
21:14You know, because as soon as he dropped his face mask, this was just inevitable.
21:17That's the moment that was his last bit of freedom in that home being told that he is about to be arrested on suspicion of a very, very serious offence.
21:32Thomas Burley was jailed for nine years, then the longest sentence for anyone taking part in the riots of 2024.
21:53We've seen many people be sentenced for violent disorder in these courts, but this has been the highest prison term handed out across the country.
22:06Burley was told he would serve nine years in prison and even when released, would have a further five years on licence.
22:12The judge said that he considered a life sentence, a life sentence is for the most dangerous of criminals.
22:24And the judge said that he considered that, he considered Burley to be a very dangerous offender.
22:31To get what he did, nine years in prison, it's a long time.
22:36He knows down well his actions could have caused the death or serious injury of a lot of people.
22:43So is nine years a lot? No, I don't think so. Not at all.
22:48At least 80 people have been jailed following arrests for taking part in the Rotherham riot.
22:55I thought that these will all get pieced together and these arrests would follow.
23:00But that also rewind back to the mob mentality.
23:07They surely weren't that stupid to not expect a knock at the door in the following days and weeks.
23:11There's just cameras everywhere and everything piecing together, it's just like making a jigsaw.
23:21With 64 officers injured, police finally took control of the Rotherham riot.
23:27As people started to disperse and the crowd size shrank and the more police arrived and they got more of a grip on it, they did start to arrest people.
23:39There were people that were arrested on the day.
23:42Remember, one person was arrested because he'd been bitten by a police dog.
23:45We've since seen him go through the courts.
23:47So there were a lot of people who were arrested on the day, but the quality of the cameras, the quality of the video meant that I think a lot of people were picked up many days after this incident.
23:59Police and paramedics respond to a 999 call. A man stabbed, fighting to survive.
24:17The only suspect, his wife.
24:18How many times have you stabbed him?
24:19I did the once.
24:20You did the once?
24:21Once, I thought I'd get his heart. Well, he hasn't got one. And then, twice in the afternoon.
24:24This would have become a category one incident and that would have seen a double crew ambulance, a rapid response vehicle, the helicopter emergency room, and the
24:31helicopter emergency room.
24:32medical service or critical care paramedic being sent to the scene.
24:39And then, the hospital, and the medical service, the hospital, the hospital, the hospital, and the hospital, and the hospital, and the hospital, and the hospital.
24:45This would have become a category one incident and that would have seen a double crew ambulance, a rapid response vehicle, the helicopter emergency medical service or a critical care paramedic being sent to the scene.
24:57being sent to scene.
25:06Hey, Manning, do you want to just step outside for me a minute?
25:08Can you come outside? Yes.
25:11He's on the kitchen floor.
25:13OK, at this moment in time, OK, can you just listen to my colleague?
25:18Under arrest of suspicion of sent murder, mate.
25:20Under arrest of suspicion of sent murder.
25:22You do not have to say anything about it, mate.
25:24Hopefully it's not at 11.
25:25I'll be of defence.
25:26If you do not mention one question, anything you're later lying in court,
25:29anything you do say, maybe given in evidence.
25:31Erm...
25:32I'll go in and see what they're doing.
25:33Yeah.
25:34Could I get on the coat?
25:35Just bear with me two seconds, all right?
25:37In there.
25:38I admit it all.
25:40Police aren't used to people admitting things.
25:43I admit it all.
25:46The officers will be surprised, shocked almost,
25:49that she's being so frank about what she's done.
25:52They'll probably be asking themselves, what's the subplot here?
25:56What's going on that we don't know about?
26:01Why is she acting so calmly, so matter-of-factly,
26:04about what she's done?
26:06David was Penny's fourth husband and Penny was his third wife.
26:16They were both strong characters.
26:18They would clash occasionally, especially when alcohol was involved.
26:22Penny Jackson was a 66-year-old retired accountant
26:27with the Ministry of Defence.
26:29David Jackson was 78,
26:31a retired lieutenant colonel in the army.
26:34He was also a strong character.
26:36He could be quite controlling, people said,
26:38and liked things done a certain way.
26:40Before the arrest, David Jackson had dialed 999,
26:55needing urgent help.
26:57He tells the operator, I've been stabbed.
27:01And it's at that point you hear on the 999 call,
27:04Penny stab him for a second and a third time,
27:07and drops the phone.
27:09And from then on, Penny picks up the phone
27:11and she's in charge of the 999 call,
27:13while David is moaning in the background.
27:15It's an odd call, isn't it?
27:30These calls don't happen very often
27:32and the emergency call operator who was handling that call
27:36must have been thinking,
27:38is this real?
27:40How many times have you stabbed him?
27:42I did the once.
27:44You did the once?
27:45And then he said I wouldn't do it again,
27:48so I did the fourth month.
27:51So, OK.
27:52So in total, how many times?
27:54Three times.
27:55Three times.
27:56OK, so just listen to my voice.
27:58OK.
27:59Stay on the line with me.
28:00I am compus mentis.
28:02OK.
28:03Sounding a little bit inebriated,
28:05and then coming up with that,
28:07that phrase saying, I'm compus mentis.
28:10These are things that those of us who've worked in emergency services
28:14often find are somewhat of a contradiction.
28:17OK.
28:18Are you with the patient now?
28:20Well, I need the lounge for the people in the kitchen
28:23bleeding to death with any luck.
28:25Police would have been deployed,
28:29and there would be 10 emergency vehicles on scene,
28:34and perhaps as many as 20 people on scene.
28:37Quiet street, lots of engines rumbling,
28:40blue lights flashing.
28:41You can see from the body-worn video footage
28:48that their first priority when they've arrived on scene
28:51was to go and support the resuscitation efforts
28:53for David Jackson.
28:54Right, get the ambulance in.
28:56Pronto, we need CPR.
28:57Oh, don't.
28:58The priority of the police going to any incident
29:01is preservation of life.
29:02That trumps everything.
29:03That trumps forensic preservation.
29:05It trumps searching for witnesses.
29:07It even trumps arrests.
29:08If you can save a life, that is the first thing you do.
29:11One group of officers dealt with Penny.
29:15The others went in to try and deal with David.
29:19They know that something dreadful has happened
29:21and they've got a woman there admitting being responsible for it.
29:26So they brought her outside
29:28because that's the safest place for her to be.
29:30We can see by the shadows there's a number of officers around.
29:33OK, at this moment in time, OK, can you just listen to my colleague?
29:39Under arrest, suspicion of attempt murder, mate.
29:41Under arrest, suspicion of attempt murder.
29:44What strikes me is that the person that actually,
29:46the officer that actually makes the arrest
29:48seems to be a student officer in training.
29:52And I say that for a couple of reasons.
29:54One is that another officer effectively tells him
29:59to arrest her on suspicion of attempted murder.
30:03Under arrest, suspicion of attempt murder, mate.
30:05Under arrest, suspicion of attempt murder.
30:07And he says those words in exactly the same words
30:10as he's been told to say it.
30:12So that strikes me as somebody that's learning their craft.
30:16You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence.
30:19If you do not mention when questioned,
30:20anything you're later lying in court.
30:22And if you do say, maybe given an evidence.
30:24He seems slightly kind of nervous.
30:26I mean, who wouldn't be in this situation anyway?
30:29When I was a student officer,
30:30I never arrested anybody for attempted murder.
30:32It's normally shoplifting, drink drivers, assaults,
30:36that sort of thing.
30:38To make an arrest for an attempt murder,
30:40presumably that early in your career
30:42is something that will stick with that officer for a long time.
30:45Under arrest, suspicion of attempt murder.
30:47You do not have to say anything, but it may harm me.
30:50When Jackson's arrested on suspicion of attempted murder,
30:54she says, hopefully not, in relation to the attempted murder.
30:59You do not have to say anything, but it may harm me.
31:02She wants this to be murder.
31:04She wants her husband to have died.
31:06Could I get on the coat?
31:08Just bear with me two seconds.
31:09In there.
31:10All she's worried about is her coat.
31:13She's been arrested for attempted murder.
31:15She must know she's going to go to prison for a long time.
31:18She's just worried about her coat.
31:20All about her.
31:21Ow! Wait two seconds.
31:23Jackson is put in handcuffs,
31:25which she instantly complains about are too tight.
31:29And she's led away from the house
31:31so that police and paramedics can try and save David's life.
31:37When they put the handcuffs on,
31:39she's obviously not fighting.
31:42That's not to say that she won't,
31:44because it might suddenly occur to her
31:46that, actually, I'm in a whole lot of trouble here,
31:48so she might end up becoming violent.
31:52Desperate attempts continue to save the life of David Jackson.
31:56A path is cleared for the arrival of paramedics.
32:00With any luck, you'll be too late.
32:03Right, get the ambulance in pronto.
32:05We need CPR.
32:06Oh, don't. No, no, no, please don't.
32:08So, has she got that room?
32:10Yeah, we need the ambulance.
32:11We should have stabbed him a bit more.
32:12We've got CPR being done at the moment.
32:14Right.
32:15Yeah.
32:16Come on.
32:17Come and meet me.
32:18So, here, the officer is doing exactly what the officer should do
32:21and calling for the ambulance to come in
32:23to perform more specialised life support.
32:27We should have stabbed him a bit more.
32:30I think if she could, she'd have stood in their way and stopped them getting in.
32:34She was that disappointed that there was a chance that her husband was going to survive.
32:38And if I haven't done it properly, I'm really annoyed.
32:42Inside a small bungalow on the Somerset seaside, paramedics try to save the life of David Jackson, aged 78, stabbed three times by his wife Penny, aged 66.
33:09Under arrest with a sufficient assault murder.
33:12You do not have to say anything.
33:14It may harm your defence.
33:16With domestic violence murders, there's usually a back story to them.
33:21Yes.
33:22I stabbed him.
33:23Once.
33:24Because he's a...
33:25No, I'm going to send them all out.
33:26He's an aggressive bully and nasty.
33:27And I've had enough.
33:28And when he said, you wouldn't do it, I did it twice more.
33:32When she says on camera that he goaded her, he was an aggressive bully.
33:57He's an aggressive bully and nasty and I've had enough.
34:03You know, she says those things and to a degree they may be true, but the way she says them, it's almost as if by killing him, she's got one up on him.
34:15And when he said, you wouldn't do it, I did it twice more.
34:32For years, there had been rising tension between Penny and David Jackson.
34:38Penny was described as goading her husband sometimes into a fight, into arguments and would put him down.
34:47And a lot of David's family would eventually not speak to Penny because they disliked how she treated him.
34:56Penny was sending David texts saying that she couldn't cope.
35:06That he frightened her and that she didn't want to grow old like this.
35:13When the COVID-19 lockdowns happened, this just seemed to make things all the more worse.
35:32They were stuck together in the house and Penny actually posted something on her Facebook page, quarantined with hubby for two weeks.
35:40Gertrude is knitting something special for him.
35:43And the image that went along with this was a woman knitting a noose for her husband.
35:48There'd been a call to the police where there'd been a row about remote control and David had been verbally violent.
36:05And Penny had locked him in the conservatory and David smashed his way out of the conservatory.
36:11The years of feuding came to a head on February the 13th, 2021.
36:26They were sitting down in their house to a birthday Zoom meal with their daughter Isabel and her husband,
36:33where they'd cooked a meal at their own houses and they were sharing it over their laptops, watching each other.
36:38Penny and David had fallen out seriously over something as small as Penny serving Bubble and Squeak rather than potatoes with the meal.
36:47Bubble and Squeak is just a fried up collection of vegetables.
36:51It's thought of as a bit of a sort of peasant dish.
36:54And David thought that something better should have been served alongside their meal.
37:00A lot of alcohol had been drunk and people would say after a lot of alcohol had been drunk, Penny would get abusive.
37:13First, Penny Jackson grabbed a kitchen knife.
37:17She told David that she was going to kill herself.
37:22And when he said that she was pathetic for saying that, that is when she stabbed him.
37:28She stabs him in the chest.
37:30He gets up. It hasn't been a fatal blow.
37:33And he walks to the kitchen.
37:35He calls 999 and tells the operator, I've been stabbed.
37:41From then on, Penny picks up the phone.
37:43And are you with him now?
37:47Well, I might just go and stab him again.
37:51Oh, right. Do not stab him again.
37:54Taken into custody after being arrested for attempted murder, Penny Jackson appeared unconcerned about her husband.
38:02What colour is your coat?
38:08In the front.
38:09Yeah.
38:10Grey wardrobe.
38:11OK.
38:12It might be a while.
38:13All right.
38:14But I'll try and get...
38:15There's obviously a lot going on.
38:16OK.
38:17She's still going on about the coat.
38:19She's sat in the car, still going on about her coat.
38:22With any luck, it'll be too late.
38:24My advice is don't talk about it now.
38:27OK.
38:28And the officer is trying to protect her from herself.
38:32So the best way for people to make any comment or omissions about a crime they've committed is in an interview room, in a police station, having had legal advice with a solicitor or a legal representative with them.
38:45He's kind of saying, look, come on, this is not the best place to do it.
38:48He's protecting her.
38:49All of the omissions are admissible because she's been cautioned.
38:53But he's almost saying to her, look, you know, just take a breath.
38:57You know, get some legal advice and, you know, let's not do it in the back of the police car.
39:02That's not the best place for you.
39:05Yet still she carries on.
39:07I have no intention of not agreeing to what I've done.
39:12She cannot be quiet.
39:14She cannot stop admitting it.
39:16I know what I've done.
39:17All right.
39:18And I know why I've done it.
39:20And if I haven't done it properly, I'm really annoyed.
39:25Then a message comes through that changes the picture dramatically.
39:31Her husband, David, has died from his injuries.
39:34So this has now escalated from an attempted murder to murder because now somebody has died.
39:49All right, honey.
39:50I'm arresting, further arresting you for murder.
39:53Oh, good.
39:55And she, rather than throwing her head in her hands and being shocked and crying and any regret,
40:01her reply is, oh, good.
40:05All right, Penny.
40:06I'm arresting, further arresting you for murder.
40:09Oh, good.
40:10I've already cautioned you.
40:11Yes.
40:12So your necessity for your arrest is for a prompt and effective investigation.
40:15Yes.
40:16And stop further harm.
40:17Sorry.
40:18That one's a bit tight.
40:20So Penny was...
40:21We're gonna, we're gonna...
40:22We're gonna move them to the rear in a minute.
40:25She's immediately worrying about her handcuffs and how tight her handcuffs are.
40:28She doesn't care.
40:29She doesn't care.
40:30She doesn't care.
40:31In fact, she's quite delighted that she's finished the job.
40:33The, um, Dio's just come out to, um, check your temperature and then we'll, we'll move
40:36you in and then we'll get a test.
40:37Mind your odds.
40:38Just stay there for the time being.
40:39All right.
40:42I'm gonna buy my slippers.
40:45She's complaining about not having her coat, wanting her slippers.
40:50The gravity of the situation doesn't seem to be there.
40:54Step up, mind your odds.
40:55Yeah.
40:56Mind your odds.
40:57I'm very sorry for being a nuisance.
41:01No, you just gotta take your temperature, okay?
41:03Yeah.
41:04Well, that'd be just really great.
41:06Get COVID on the top of this.
41:09If I saw video evidence like this as a, as an investigator, I would be incredulous about the, just the heartless nature of her response.
41:25But at her trial, despite all her admissions, Penny Jackson claimed she didn't intend to kill her husband.
41:39It was manslaughter, not murder.
41:42Penny Jackson spent four days giving evidence in the witness box.
41:48She was trying to convince the jury that she couldn't remember any of the incriminating things she'd said or done.
41:55She would try to feign emotion and cry.
41:59But it never came across as realistic.
42:01It never came across as, as genuine emotion.
42:04A former Ministry of Defence accountant has been found guilty of murdering her husband, a retired Lieutenant Colonel.
42:13Penelope Jackson, aged 67, was jailed for life with a minimum term of 18 years.
42:20The 999 call and the arrest footage that was captured on the police body cameras was crucial, I think, in getting the conviction against Penny Jackson.
42:32The judge said Penelope Jackson had tarnished the memory of her husband and that while giving evidence over four days, she had not shown a shred of genuine remorse for her terrible crime.
42:45I've dealt with domestic violence murders in the past where women have stabbed their partners.
42:53I stabbed him.
42:54I was just about to tell you to call them after your aunt.
42:57Once.
42:58Because he's a...
43:00No, I'm going to send them over.
43:06He's an aggressive bully and nasty and I've had enough.
43:11Very often it is self-defence. Very often they have been tipped over the edge by years of emotional abuse, physical abuse, coercive control.
43:23That's nothing like this.
43:25And when he said, you wouldn't do it, I did it twice more.
43:31This is cold-blooded murder.
43:41Does that meanuno's sexual abuse
43:45any Shiny om King":
43:47not dealing with your husband's parents or parents
43:48that is the circle.
43:52Stand up to me as a man for his parents.
43:53There was a woman who went on tohei Whois Infinity with a student.
43:56The room, they said how a woman's agent he can do it and he was married if he says he's wife.
43:59He said he was murdered.
44:00They lives in a statistically with a lot of children Care Priestly or two parents,
44:04by belonging to anyone.
44:06And what happened that happened next?
44:09He chose the man who Sundays before their family and planners.
44:10You
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