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Transcript

00:00The Babri Masjid was built on the site of a desecration of a temple dedicated to Lord Ram

00:09which had been erected eons back to mark his birthplace. Viewers, this man believes that

00:23the Babri Masjid should be made again a symbol of bigotry, of supremacism, of cultural vandalism

00:32must be put together in Bengal. Listen first viewers to the combative revolutions of TMC MLA

00:44Humayun Kabir and remember viewers while you are listening to him remember what he is campaigning

00:51for and who he is campaigning for jog your memory back. Who was Baba? What did he do in this

01:02country? What was his intention? First listen.

01:08The Babri Masjid was built on the Babri Masjid on the 6th of December. My family, my family,

01:15my family, my family, my family, and all of the people were very happy to live in Japan.

01:21I have been working for the Babri Masjid for 3 years for 3 years. That's why they have been

01:31the Babri Masjid.

01:36The question is simple. What exactly is being honored here? Who? History tells us Babri

01:44weaponized faith. His campaigns were framed as jihad. His armies rallied as soldiers of Islam.

01:51And his chronicles are filled with contempt for what he called, quote, accursed enemies of

01:57Islam, unquote. Viewers, Babri's forces often viewed their invasions of India through a religious lens,

02:06believing they were fighting a holy war against non-Muslims. These are annotated facts.

02:15Mentioned viewers in the Babri Nama. Mentioned in other court documents. Viewers, the religious justification

02:24extended to specific acts of iconoclasm. Most famously, the alleged destruction of a temple at Ayodhya.

02:30And I'm only using the word alleged, viewers, because I am being mindful of propriety.

02:45I don't want to stir passions at this late date, specifically when the Supreme Court has ruled

02:51and tried to cauterize this wound, this civilizational insult, viewers. And also, let me tell you,

02:57I'm using my words carefully. Because just yesterday, we marked the culmination

03:04of the construction of the Ram Mandir. A victory, viewers, for civilizational justice.

03:14So I don't want to scratch like this man is doing at old woods. In fact, viewers, the man he wants to honor,

03:24the man Humayu Kabir wants to honor, Babri. The Babri Nama suggests that Babri saw himself

03:33in the image of two other Islamic invaders, Mehmood of Ghazni and Muhammad of Gaur.

03:40You know who those individuals are, viewers. Do I need to tell you?

03:45Great desecrators of the Hindu tradition and Hindu civilization.

03:51One brought down one of India's most iconic temples.

03:58In the prelude to the Battle of Khanwa, Babri, in his own words, used phrases like Army of Islam,

04:04accursed enemies of Islam, wretched Hindus.

04:08How do we know all this, viewers? Because it has been documented meticulously

04:13in a book published by Penguin recently, viewers, called Babri, the Chessboard King

04:18by Abbas Maladyar. Yet today, a sitting MLA of a ruling party in this country, in Bengal,

04:29chooses that legacy as inspiration. It's not surprising that the BJP is lashing out at Bengal

04:35Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee, TMC and other opposition cohorts like the so-called secular parties

04:41at other Congress and the left for keeping quiet. Viewers, the BJP says,

04:47TMC is endangering secularism. Those harboring such dreams have no love for secularism.

04:53Five acres of land were allocated for the construction of a mosque by the Supreme Court, no less.

04:58They won't build that, but they want to build a Babri masjid.

05:02This proves that TMC and other opposition have struck a compromise with fundamentalist forces.

05:08They say secularism is in danger. No, India's future is in danger because of this pseudo-secularism, unquote.

05:15This is Sudhanshu Trivedi, BJP Member of Parliament today, viewers, made this remark.

05:20Is this merely appeasement politics or is this a deeper attempt at revisionism?

05:27Is it an ideological flex with the very forces that have long sought to divide India?

05:33Let's open this up, viewers. Let's ask some fundamental questions.

05:36Let me begin with Tawseef Ahmed Khan, noted advocate, someone who speaks up for the TMC in Bengal.

05:43Now, sir, for which community in this country can Babar suddenly become an inspiration to build a mosque for him?

05:58For a man whose bigotry was loosely adorning his sword arm? Why would you do that?

06:10Now, Rahul, you see, these are very scholarly academic debate which we are trying to do through this TV channel.

06:20So, you want me to be what? A mad, ranting, lunatic like some of the members of your party that want to eulogize Babar? For God's sake, sir.

06:31Or do you want me to now also join hands with you and say let's also build a...

06:35No, no, hang on. A big black marble mausoleum to Aurangzeb also while we are at it.

06:40Rahul, for the time being just allow me to speak.

06:42No, no, but you can't accuse me of being sensible.

06:46And use it. And use it. And use it. And use it. No, hang on. And use it as something to taunt me with. I am being sensible and restrained.

06:56No, hang on. Taseef Khan, because, because, sir, someone needs to be sensible on this debate. Because you clearly are not. You're out of your senses.

07:05You are touching upon a field of which you have zero knowledge. Oh, really? I see. Yes. Because you said, why should we dedicate a mosque to Baba?

07:17You see, a mosque is never built for any prophet or god. There is no concept of various gods like it is in other religion. You see, like we can have so many temples dedicated to a particular god or goddess.

07:34But in Islam, the concept is nothing like you are trying to imagine or you are trying to tell your viewers as if this mosque is being built for in honor of or for Babar.

07:47Sir, what else? Then why don't you just build any old masjid? Why is it called the Babri Masjid?

07:52Now, now, yes. Oh, come on. What are you trying to say? Now you're saying that why…

07:58Taseef Khan, what are you trying to say tonight? That this is some coincidental naming. I mean, you can build a mosque anywhere in this country. No, one second, one second.

08:08Sir, please. Sir, please. The photograph is of the Babri Masjid, a construction sanctioned by Babars generals to prove a point to Hindus after an invasion that was…

08:21That was… One second. That had a religious… One second, sir. Let me finish. I am reading too much into it.

08:26You don't have the proper knowledge of the religion of Islam. Am I reading too much into it?

08:31You are interpreting in your own way and trying to scare the people of India.

08:35And when are they making it, viewers? On December 6th? No, no. When are they making it on December 6th?

08:41You see viewers. After the construction of Ram Temple in Ayodhya, the Mandir Masjid chapter is over.

08:47Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why do you want to take India back?

08:50I am taking that. Yes.

08:52The posters, viewers, the posters on your screens. The soundbite… One minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute, one minute.

08:59Mr. Khan, maybe, maybe Mr. Khan, you are so blinded by your own sense of denial that you are not seeing the visuals or hearing, sir, your own MLA.

09:12At least one person in your party today has gotten up and said that these were very bad words.

09:18At least that person is not deluded, sir.

09:23So, you are happy. At least you admit. Now you admit that Tirna Mool party has nothing, got nothing to do with this MLA.

09:29No, no, no, no, one second. Sack him. Sack him. Why is he an MLA? Why is he taking oath? No, no, you can't have it both ways.

09:34No, no, you can't object to his name. No, no, just a minute, just a minute. Tauseef Khan, Tauseef Khan, listen, you can't change the goalposts with me that easily.

09:41Sorry, I come very prepared. I have exposed the mindset. No, no, you have not come prepared.

09:46One second, one second. I have...

09:48Okay, just calm down.

09:50Calm down, calm down.

09:51First of all, you started by saying...

09:53Calm down, sir.

09:54You started by saying that the mosque is built in honor of Babur.

09:57In Islam, no mosque is built in honor of anybody.

10:01Right.

10:02For the omnipresent, unseen God called Allah.

10:05Sir, great.

10:06Which does not have any idol.

10:07Great.

10:08Why is it called the Babri Masjid?

10:10Why is it called the Babri Masjid?

10:12Why is it called the Babri Masjid?

10:14Why is it called the Babri Masjid?

10:16Why is it called the Babri Masjid?

10:17Why is it called the Babri Masjid?

10:19First, you have to get the basics correct.

10:21So viewers, if that is the case...

10:23One second.

10:24If it is the case, why for 150 years...

10:27Were these people opposing the removal of this mosque...

10:31From the Ram Janam Bhumi...

10:33If it is just a bunch of bricks, as they call them...

10:35Where you actually summon the greater powers...

10:38And just pray...

10:40Then you could have removed it.

10:41What was so sacred about the Babri Masjid then?

10:44Because you see, these people...

10:47Tauseef Khan and company are too clever by half.

10:50If it is just another brick and mortar building...

10:53Then why for 150 years, viewers...

10:55Were they thwarting Hindus...

10:57Who wanted their place of worship back?

10:59Could they not have just moved it?

11:01Could they not have moved it to another spot?

11:03Could they not have dismantled it themselves?

11:05Viewers, these are the questions that were asked of them.

11:08Now you know what viewers...

11:09Okay, now Mr. Khan...

11:10Now you know what's going to happen?

11:12I'll tell you what...

11:13Viewers, they'll start playing victim...

11:14And they'll accuse me...

11:15They'll accuse me...

11:16One second...

11:17They'll accuse me...

11:18Of...

11:19Being...

11:20Somebody...

11:22Who...

11:24Is trying to incite passions...

11:26And therefore...

11:27I must therefore...

11:28I'm saying you're reading too much into it...

11:29I must therefore...

11:30I must therefore pay the price...

11:31Which you know viewers...

11:32Will be a fatwa...

11:33That's what he's gonna try to do next...

11:34Because he lost all three...

11:35In a moment...

11:36Todd's mom will read her son's internet browsing history...

11:39What?

11:40Express VPN apps...

11:41Fine sir...

11:42Thank you sir...

11:43Thank you...

11:44Why don't you tell some of your friends...

11:45On social media...

11:46That...

11:47Because every day...

11:48I get about 20 threats...

11:49Anyhow...

11:50Dr. Ranganathan...

11:51Let me just ask you a question...

11:52No one should give any thanks to Rahul...

11:53And it's a simple question...

11:54Okay...

11:55I am requesting...

11:56Through your channel...

11:57I am requesting...

11:58Please do not give any thanks to Rahul...

11:59Is not that important...

12:01Great...

12:02No fatwa...

12:03Can I...

12:04Can I come back to the subject...

12:05The temple and mosque...

12:06Chapter is over...

12:08Long over...

12:09Can I come back to the subject...

12:10Dr. Ranganathan...

12:11Okay...

12:12I am going to count till three...

12:13Mr. Khan...

12:14One...

12:15Two...

12:16Three...

12:17Yes...

12:18Dr. Ranganathan...

12:19Explain...

12:20Why should a mosque...

12:21Be called the Babri Masjid...

12:23And why is its foundation stone...

12:24Going to be laid on the 6th of December...

12:26If...

12:27The entire...

12:28So called affair...

12:29Is a closed chapter...

12:31As Mr. Khan is suggesting here...

12:33On national television...

12:36Good evening Rahul...

12:37And good evening to my fellow panelists...

12:39I think...

12:40You are right in one sense...

12:42And...

12:43We have discussed this...

12:44Away from the debates...

12:45You know...

12:46One must read Naipaul...

12:47To understand...

12:48Especially its two books...

12:49Among the believers...

12:50And beyond belief...

12:51That...

12:52The converted peoples...

12:53It's a bit like...

12:54You know...

12:55They are more Catholic...

12:56Than the Pope...

12:57So for someone...

12:58Whose grandfather was a Hindu...

12:59The abject Hindu hatred...

13:01That is being shown out here...

13:03By the previous panelists...

13:04Is just...

13:05Not befuddling...

13:06But you know...

13:07There is a reason for that...

13:08Anyhow...

13:09The fact of the matter is...

13:10Let them...

13:11People like Tosif...

13:12Do whatever they want...

13:14Let them...

13:15It's a free country...

13:16And the question to be asked is...

13:18Why should they...

13:19Trod upon...

13:20The human rights...

13:21And other rights...

13:22Other rights...

13:23Of other people...

13:24That is when the problem comes...

13:26They want to make a Babri Masjid...

13:27Let them...

13:28The problem is not...

13:29Making a Babri Masjid...

13:31Or a Muslim...

13:32Or whatever...

13:33For a barbarian...

13:34Or eulogizing Tipu...

13:35No...

13:36The problem is...

13:37They are doing it...

13:38At the cost of Hindus...

13:39And Hindu rights...

13:40At the cost of Hindu temples...

13:41And that is the problem...

13:42I don't blame them...

13:43I blame us...

13:44Because...

13:45Tell me Rahul...

13:46Is there a Hitler road in Tel Aviv...

13:48Then why for 70 years...

13:50Was there an Aurangzeb road in Delhi...

13:51Why there still is...

13:53Stones throw away...

13:54From the Prime Minister's house...

13:56A Babar road in Delhi...

13:58And have you ever wondered...

13:59Indian Christians...

14:01Never eulogize...

14:02Barbarian mass murders...

14:03Like General Dyer...

14:04And don't protest...

14:05When truth is told...

14:06About the evil British Empire...

14:08But why do Indian Muslims...

14:09Eulogize...

14:10Barbarian mass murders...

14:11Like Babar and Aurangzeb...

14:12Why do they protest...

14:13When the truth is told...

14:14About the Mughal Empire...

14:16That is the question...

14:18That must be asked...

14:19But not answered...

14:20Not answered Rahul...

14:21Because...

14:22That would make people...

14:23In this country...

14:24Uncomfortable...

14:25Because the fact is...

14:26Our textbooks...

14:27Must tell the truth...

14:28About Mughal barbarians...

14:29Not to illuminate Muslims...

14:30No...

14:31But to illuminate Hindus...

14:33Nations...

14:34Weakened...

14:35Not because of their past...

14:36But rather by how...

14:37They are taught it...

14:38And for 75 years...

14:39We have been taught...

14:40To forget...

14:41Historical injustices...

14:42To eulogize...

14:43Genocidal mass murderers...

14:44And so...

14:45That glorifies...

14:46Self-loathing...

14:47And self-flagellation...

14:48In equal measure...

14:49So you have Nehru...

14:50Asserting that...

14:51Quote...

14:52Barbar was one of the most...

14:53Cultured and delightful...

14:54Persons...

14:55What could meet...

14:56He was a gallant knight...

14:57There was no sectarianism...

14:58In Barbar...

14:59No religious bigotry...

15:00This is from Nehru's own book...

15:02Called Glimpses of World History...

15:03This...

15:04Despite Barbar...

15:05Saying it himself...

15:06That...

15:07In Barbar Nama...

15:08I was a wanderer...

15:09For the sake of Islam...

15:10And battled infidels...

15:11And Hindus...

15:12Determined to become a martyr...

15:14But thanks be to Allah...

15:15I became a Ghazi...

15:17This...

15:18Despite Guru Nanak...

15:19And Guru Granth Sahib...

15:20Mocking God...

15:21Saying...

15:22Do you have no blame...

15:23In sending Barbar...

15:24As the messenger of death...

15:25Do you not feel any pity...

15:26Oh Lord...

15:27Seeing so much...

15:28Slaughter and pain...

15:29Unquote...

15:30Rahul...

15:31This is a nation...

15:32Where people still go...

15:33And pray at the grave...

15:34Of Aurangzeb...

15:35Who imposed tax...

15:36Only on non-Muslims...

15:37Beheaded Guru Teh Bahadur...

15:38And Tom Sahib Rada's...

15:39Alive...

15:40Decapitated...

15:41Sambhaji Maharaj...

15:42Demolished...

15:43Kashi Vishwanath...

15:44And murdered...

15:454.6 million Hindus...

15:46Aurangzeb...

15:47And Barbar...

15:48Were Baghdadi...

15:49And Bin Laden...

15:50350 years...

15:51Twisted minds...

15:52In need of...

15:53Serious medical intervention...

15:54But it is not the fault...

15:55Of these...

15:56Demented brainwashed...

15:57It is our fault...

15:58It is the fault...

15:59Of our textbook...

16:00It is the fault...

16:01When you have...

16:02Anand has no source...

16:03Now...

16:04One second...

16:05You have this...

16:06Manufactured history...

16:07Rahul...

16:08Can you please...

16:09Turn his fader off...

16:10Because I want to end...

16:11By saying this fact...

16:12That Barbar's tomb...

16:13Was visited by Nehru...

16:14In 1959...

16:15Indra...

16:16In 1968...

16:17Rajiv...

16:18In 1976...

16:19Rahul...

16:20But none of them...

16:21Ever visited...

16:22Ram Jamsthan...

16:23None...

16:24Well...

16:25Viewers...

16:26Look...

16:27You can...

16:28Bring out...

16:29The Britannica...

16:30Encyclopedia...

16:31And quote out of it...

16:33And these people will say...

16:35It's all...

16:36False...

16:37Because viewers...

16:38Tawseef Khan...

16:40Only believes...

16:41In the written word...

16:42Of one book...

16:43So they don't really care about India...

16:45That is constitution...

16:47That they really don't...

16:48I hope so...

16:49I hope so sir...

16:50Because this is certainly not constitutional...

16:51And you don't believe in it...

16:52This is certainly not constitutional...

16:53Viewers...

16:54Lower his favor...

16:55Lower his favor...

16:56Lower his favor...

16:57Lower his favor...

16:58Please...

16:59I am not getting engaged...

17:00With a...

17:01With somebody...

17:02Who doesn't quite have...

17:03Their senses about them...

17:04As he began...

17:05By questioning...

17:06Why I am speaking sensibly...

17:07He says...

17:08He wanted me to be...

17:09Irrational and crazy...

17:10On the debate...

17:11Yes...

17:12So...

17:13What do you have to say...

17:14For yourself...

17:15You have raised your hand...

17:16Yes sir...

17:17Go ahead...

17:18Raoul...

17:19So I think the problem...

17:20With reading a prepared speech...

17:21From a teleprompter...

17:22Is sometimes...

17:23You get too ahead...

17:24Ahead of yourselves...

17:25The previous panelist...

17:26My very good friend...

17:27Dr Ranganathan...

17:28Said for the...

17:29For the previous panelist...

17:30That...

17:31He had some...

17:32Visceral Hindu hatred...

17:33I was listening...

17:34Very patiently...

17:35To both these gentlemen...

17:36And I did not...

17:37Hear Tawseef...

17:38Say one word...

17:39About...

17:40The Hindu faith...

17:41Or the people who follow that...

17:42Don't get personal...

17:43My friend...

17:44My...

17:45My friend...

17:46I'm not getting...

17:47Dr Ranganathan...

17:48I'm not getting personal...

17:49I'm lowering...

17:50Nikhil Jain's fader...

17:51Because he's become...

17:52A troll...

17:53What?

17:54He's become a professional troll...

17:55I told you...

17:56Some days...

17:57Nikhil Jain...

17:58You wanted to make...

17:59An intervention...

18:00Mr Tawseef Khan...

18:01Can speak for himself...

18:02If you want to be...

18:03His advocate...

18:04Sir...

18:05You should tell me...

18:06That I will only be...

18:07An advocate...

18:08For ex-panelists...

18:09I'm asking you...

18:10The point...

18:11I've told you...

18:12Many times...

18:13If you want to be on this show...

18:14Sir...

18:15Please...

18:16I request you...

18:17Once again...

18:18Adhere to...

18:19The rules of the debate...

18:20Other people can defend themselves...

18:22I didn't hear you...

18:23Defending me right now...

18:24When Mr...

18:25Whatever his name is...

18:26Mr Khan...

18:27Came out and made some...

18:28Very incendiary comments...

18:30You didn't...

18:31So...

18:32Don't be selective...

18:33In your outrage...

18:34If you want to go down that route...

18:36To the channel...

18:37Waste somebody else's time...

18:38I'm counting you down...

18:39And I want you to...

18:40Respond to the...

18:41Discussion at hand...

18:42So...

18:43I'm coming right back into it...

18:44Remember this...

18:45The next time...

18:46You'll come on this channel...

18:47Please be...

18:48Please be...

18:49On topic...

18:50If you're not...

18:51I'm going to silence you...

18:52I'm not interested in all of this...

18:54I'm not interested in all of this...

18:56I'm on topic...

18:57Yeah...

18:58So...

18:59Get on topic...

19:00I'm on topic...

19:01I'm asking you a question then...

19:02No...

19:03Let me ask you...

19:04Because...

19:05Clearly I can't trust you...

19:06With your own thoughts...

19:07So let me ask you...

19:08A direct question...

19:09Let me ask you...

19:10Mr Jain...

19:11Should...

19:12The Babri Masjid...

19:13Replica...

19:14Be constructed...

19:15In the name...

19:16Of Babri Masjid...

19:17In Murshidabad...

19:18Yes or no?

19:19I don't support it...

19:20But anybody is...

19:21Free to do...

19:22Whatever they want...

19:23This is a free country...

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