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00:00Previously on the hack, I'm friends with Claire Rue Castle-Brown, the journalist and sister-in-law of Gordon Brown. He's leaning in.
00:11Murdoch's ambition is limitless, but he's overstepped here.
00:14Part of a new operation, Operation Wheating. We're investigating allegations of phone hacking.
00:20A contact of mine in the force has been put on it. He's feeding me.
00:23This fell into your lap, okay?
00:25This could get you in serious trouble.
00:27Hello.
00:28Dave is Mike of the Sun.
00:31Give Panorama, Mike Sullivan, Nick Davis, anything about our cases and you'll be strung up for all to see.
00:37I was in the database. News of the world, April 14th, 2002.
00:41Millie Dowler.
00:42Jingle says there is a page on Dowler in Marques notebooks.
00:45The news of the world will not be forgiven for less.
00:48I was being drawn to stories again and again with the same theme.
00:51A deep-seated urge to hit back at anybody at all who takes power and abuses it.
00:57Our guest now joining us from the newsroom of The Guardian is Nick Davies, award-winning journalist who has brought phone hacking into the light.
01:08Hi.
01:09Now, Nick Davies, could you have predicted the furore that the Millie Dowler case seems to have caused?
01:18Uh, predicted, no. But I do think it speaks well for the British public, for the world public, that a furore has been provoked.
01:26You have Rupert Murdoch firmly on the ropes.
01:29I have to say I'm horrified that they closed the news of the world. Good journalists have lost their jobs.
01:35I believe this was a cynical move on Murdoch's part to help aid his capture of BSkyB.
01:41And what do you think it is about the Millie Dowler case that has had such an impact?
01:45Well, what we discovered was that during the period of her disappearance, news of the world were using a private investigator to listen to her voicemails.
01:54So that in itself is horrid, deeply personal stuff.
01:57Friends and family still thought she may have run away and were imploring her to come home.
02:02The voicemail filled up, which is why they deleted the messages.
02:06Now, friends and family who had previously heard the message voicemail full were surprised by this.
02:12And the presumption became that Millie was still alive.
02:15I guess we all want to know whether Rupert Murdoch will feature in front of your Leveson inquiry and what?
02:21Well, before Leveson, actually, Rupert Murdoch is due to speak at the House of Commons Media Select Committee.
02:27We want to get answers from him as to what he knew about phone hacking.
02:31Widespread practice at his newspaper, when he knew about it and why he didn't act.
02:37Nick Davies, thank you for joining us.
02:40Thank you for having me.
02:48Whether Rupert Bales and us, I don't know.
02:50Well, you could compel him.
02:52The thing you need to ask is can you truly compel Murdoch to do anything?
02:56Are we singing happy birthday?
02:58So who's getting to ask the first question?
03:00Well, I do, though Nick is intent on writing it for me.
03:05I think we should sing.
03:06No, happy birthday's a terrible song.
03:08Nick thinks happy birthday's fascistic.
03:10It is culturally fascistic.
03:12Everyone has to sing the same song on their bloody birthday.
03:14Where's the individuality?
03:15Well, we could sing, um...
03:17What's the one where we count the candles on the birthday cake?
03:20Have we the energy?
03:21Well, speech. At least we deserve a speech.
03:24Yes, yes. On your feet.
03:25Uh, no.
03:26But, okay, I would like to thank you all for coming.
03:29And I would like to remind you we have work to do.
03:33The select committee...
03:34The select committee is our chance, with Murdoch on the stand.
03:37And I won't let you down.
03:39No, no, no, Tom, I'm not saying...
03:40Maybe I should have let you retire.
03:42You were going to retire?
03:43Move to Belgium.
03:44Ah, chocolate.
03:45And then, with Levinson, making sure that we're fully prepared...
03:48Nick, Nick.
03:49Today, we celebrate.
03:51A prep session would have been much more preferable to any kind of birthday.
03:54Not only are the songs fascistic, but Nick thinks birthdays are narcissistic.
03:58He likes to work.
03:59True.
04:00How nice, then, that none of his friends came, just the people he works with.
04:03Now you're treading a very fine line between insulting me.
04:06Happy birthday to you.
04:09Happy birthday to you.
04:12Oh, God.
04:13Happy birthday, dear Nick.
04:16Happy birthday to you.
04:36Hi.
04:37Hi.
04:38So, good news and bad news.
04:43Good news, it's all cooking nicely for the select committee.
04:48The bad news, you are going to have to give evidence at Levinson.
04:52It needs your heft.
04:53It needs...
04:54Look, Alan's house may have been compromised.
04:55What?
04:56He hired someone to sweep his house for bugs.
04:59That person subcontracted it.
05:01The person they subcontracted it too.
05:03Worked for Rhys.
05:04He's an associate of Rhys.
05:07How do you know?
05:08I can't tell you.
05:09But I know Rhys has been bragging about how he knows the bug sweeper.
05:12You sure?
05:13Ask Alan about the socks he keeps under the piano.
05:16The socks?
05:18Oh, Christ.
05:19It's true.
05:21I like him.
05:23I'd get a better feel for the piano if I play barefoot.
05:26Alan, you do not have good hiring practices.
05:29It seems possible to claim.
05:31You hired someone to debug your house and instead they may have compromised.
05:35Are my children in danger?
05:37Dave doesn't think so.
05:39Don't know about you and me.
05:41We've got Murdoch on the stand.
05:44They know they're being hunted.
05:46Call it animal, most vicious animal of all.
05:49Fuck.
05:50Fuck.
05:57I thought the worst of it was over.
06:02The day after Cameron announced the Leveson inquiry into phone hacking,
06:05the CMS select committee issued an order summoning Rupert Murdoch and his son James
06:10to attend Parliament on the 19th of July to basically explain themselves.
06:17The significance of this moment was not lost on any of us.
06:20If we asked the right questions, we could ensnare them.
06:23Both of them.
06:24Father and son.
06:26Father and son.
06:28Global Regionals.
06:32Oh, yes.
06:33That's no work, my lord.
06:34Lord.
06:35NoPerfect.
06:36It is, that's no case, Bill.
06:37You cannot...
06:38Are you?
06:39God that you've got compromised?
06:40He's got stolen.
06:41It is good George.
06:43Our Lady?
06:44Yea.
06:45OK, everyone.
06:46Settle now, please.
06:47We are now in session. Mr. Watson will ask the first question.
06:57Mr. Murdoch Senior, Mr. Murdoch Junior, good afternoon. Thanks for coming in today.
07:02My first question is for Mr. Murdoch Senior.
07:06You have repeatedly stated that News Corp has zero tolerance to wrongdoing by employees.
07:13Is that right?
07:14That may.
07:15Yes.
07:18In October 2010, did you still believe it to be true when you made your Thatcher speech
07:24and you said, let me be clear, we will vigorously pursue the truth and we will not tolerate wrongdoing?
07:32Yes.
07:34So if you were not lying then, somebody lied to you? Who was it?
07:39I don't know. That is what the police are investigating and we are helping them with.
07:44But you acknowledge that you were misled?
07:47Clearly.
07:49If I can take you to 2006, when Clive Goodman was arrested and subsequently convicted of intercepting voicemails,
08:01were you made aware of that?
08:02I think so. I was certainly made aware of when they were convicted.
08:07And what did News International do subsequent to the arrest of Clive Goodman and Glenn Mulcair to get to the facts?
08:15We worked with the police on further investigation and eventually we appointed, but very quickly appointed a very leading firm of lawyers in the city to investigate it further.
08:28What did you personally do to investigate that after Mr. Goodman went to prison?
08:33You were obviously concerned about it.
08:37I spoke to Mr. Hinton, who told me about it.
08:44Okay.
08:44Um, in 2008, another two years, why did you not dismiss News of the World Chief Reporter Neville Thirlbeck following the Mosley case?
08:57I'd never heard of him.
08:58So none of your UK staff drew your attention to this serious wrongdoing, even though the case received widespread media attention?
09:09I think my son can perhaps answer that in more detail. He was a lot closer to it.
09:13I will come to your son in a minute.
09:16Um, can I ask you, when did you first meet Mr. Alex Maranchak?
09:25Mr.
09:26Alex Maranchak.
09:30He worked for the company for 25 years.
09:32I don't remember meeting him.
09:34I might have shaken hands walking through the office, but I don't have any memory.
09:38Mr. Murdoch Senior, you seem to indicate that you had a rather hands-off approach to your company.
09:47Um, could you just give us an illustration of how often you would speak to the editors of your newspapers?
09:53Um, for example, how often you would speak to the editor of the song, or to the editor of the News of the World?
09:59Um, very seldom.
10:03Well, sometimes I'd ring the editor of the News of the World on a Saturday night and say, have you got any news tonight?
10:08But it was just to keep in touch.
10:10Well, I'm intrigued, um, as to how these conversations might go.
10:16I imagine that to the editor of the News of the World, it might go along the lines of, um, anything to report.
10:23And the editor of the News of the World says, no, no, it's been a standard week.
10:28We paid Gordon Taylor £600,000.
10:30He never said that last sentence.
10:33Well, I mean, surely in your weekly conversation with the editor of the News of the World, with something as big as that,
10:39paying someone a million pounds, paying someone £700,000, I mean, surely you'd have expected the editor to just drop it into the conversation at some point during your weekly chat.
10:50No, I'd say, what's doing?
10:53Sorry?
10:54I'd say, what's doing?
10:55And what sort of response would you expect?
11:00Well, you might say, we've got a great story exposing X or Y, or you would say, more likely, nothing special.
11:07You might refer to the fact that however many extra pages were dedicated to the football that week.
11:12But he wouldn't tell you about a million pound pay off.
11:16I just want to say that I was brought up by a father who was not rich, but who was a great journalist.
11:22And he, just before he died, bought a small paper, specifically in his will, saying he was giving me the chance to do good.
11:32Now, I remember what he did and what he was most proud of and for which he was hated in this country by many people for many, many years.
11:40Which was to expose the scandal at Gallipoli, which I remain very, very proud of.
11:45I think that all students of history will be...
11:47Scared me!
11:53Um, the sitting is suspended.
11:59Fuck it.
12:00The defence told the court the father of one from Windsor had wanted to show his revulsion over the scandal at News International.
12:08He'd admitted assault and...
12:09If I could get my hands on that fool!
12:11He's in custody.
12:12He thinks, what, that his amateur dramatics are more useful than what we were doing in that room?
12:17Good questions were asked.
12:18Yeah, they were, and they weren't answered.
12:20And that obfuscation is important.
12:23Well, it was.
12:23Oh, God, that awful senile act Murdoch was putting on.
12:30That needed writing about, but now every papal will carry one thing and one thing only.
12:35Wendy Murdoch fighting for her man.
12:37You're worrying too much, Nick.
12:39You don't understand news cycles.
12:41Yeah, but it's still Leveson.
12:42Yeah, nothing else but Leveson.
12:44There is no heir but Leveson F. Leveson doesn't produce.
12:47Then what?
12:48You're going to hide under a teetail for the rest of your life?
12:50Well, Nick, a serious inquiry led by quite a clever bloke is happening because of your journalism.
12:58It could mean regulation, ethics, maybe even an appropriate relationship between press, politicians and police.
13:06When did you become the positive one?
13:08Oh, fuck off.
13:09Lord Leveson's report's given us a new press and a new Dave Cook.
13:13Fuck off.
13:14Twice.
13:20What's the latest with the select committee?
13:32We're going to get James Murdoch back in.
13:34On what grounds?
13:35Clarity on whether or not he was told about the Neville email.
13:41Why are there police officers in our newsroom?
13:44What?
13:44They want to talk to Amelia.
13:52Amelia?
13:53What about?
13:54They're citing the official secret site.
14:05Yeah?
14:06Hi, where are you?
14:07On my way somewhere.
14:08I can't tell you where.
14:11Amelia, this is Alan.
14:13Alan, I'm just on my way to meet someone.
14:16What's going on?
14:18I think you should come in.
14:21They're upstairs.
14:22They're saying they won't leave until they've spoken to you.
14:24No.
14:25No way.
14:25Not without a lawyer.
14:26Agreed.
14:28They don't like my biscuits and they don't like my small talk about Chopin.
14:33They're saying they need your notebooks.
14:35If you can't find your notebooks, they'll get a warrant and enter your flat.
14:39They're also saying that notebooks aren't in your flat, they could visit your mother.
14:42Tell them I'm not going to give up my source or my notes.
14:46I'd rather go to prison.
14:48Right.
14:52Good.
14:53I'll contact some friends, give you some recommendations, or you can find a lawyer for yourself, a human rights specialist.
14:58This will get leaked.
15:00Right?
15:00I don't expect so.
15:02But you might need to stay somewhere else tonight with your friends or...
15:05Is this what happens?
15:06We were exposing them, not the other way around.
15:09It isn't what happens.
15:11But it does seem to be what's happening.
15:15I'm so sorry.
15:16I don't know if you've...
15:29I don't know if you've...
15:30Yeah, yeah.
15:30Well, they saw the Channel 4 interview and they've been pretty insistent that I say something.
15:47Not that they're making me...
15:48They seem very good people.
15:54They don't really have anyone to talk to about the MEP from the inside and I think that's why they want me.
15:59Well, and they have you and they have me.
16:04You're doing it too?
16:06I registered yesterday, I was going to email.
16:08Their implications?
16:11Sure.
16:11For the kids.
16:12We'll have to speak to their school, their friends.
16:16We could be targets.
16:18Why is it worse me doing it than you?
16:22Because of Daniel Morgan.
16:24Because the case collapsed.
16:27They said you were feeding lines to a witness.
16:30You don't think they're going to use that against you if you give evidence...
16:32Now, now, listen, listen.
16:34Jackie, I just want this out there.
16:37Same as you do, okay?
16:42Hi, Nick.
16:48Sue Akers.
16:49I hope I'm not disturbing you.
16:51Deputy Assistant Commissioner.
16:52This is quite...
16:53Call me Sue, please.
16:54Quite the surprise, Sue.
16:56I was hoping you might have a moment to make me a cup of tea.
17:01Of course I do, yeah, of course.
17:03Come in.
17:03Sorry.
17:04Through here.
17:05Thanks.
17:10You've gone to my house.
17:12Not a short distance, on a Saturday.
17:15So, whatever this is can't be good.
17:18I mean, I have to assume, can't be good at all.
17:23Maybe take a seat.
17:25Oh, God.
17:28Nick, I'm afraid that part of the story you published about Millie Dowler is inaccurate.
17:35Inaccurate how?
17:36It looks likely that the News of the World did not delete voice messages from Millie Dowler's phone.
17:43It's probable it was the phone company.
17:46That's not...
17:46I have two separate sources.
17:48The network she used automatically deleted messages after 72 hours.
17:53That's how we presume they were wiped.
17:55They were using words like, presume, probable, likely.
17:59And we believe those deletions happened prior to Glenn Mulcair being instructed to get inside her phone.
18:06Before Mulcair.
18:07Nick, I came here in person to acknowledge all you've done.
18:14Without you, waiting is impossible.
18:17Without you...
18:18You can't know for certain who deleted what.
18:21I'm sorry.
18:23We'll be releasing a statement to correct the record.
18:25The article said messages were deleted by journalists in the first few days after Millie's disappearance.
18:32That's the only inaccuracy.
18:34It's a large one.
18:36I have a good source which tells me Surrey Police turned off the automatic deletion system on the fourth day.
18:42And some voicemail appear to have been deleted after.
18:46Were they soon?
18:48No.
18:49Sure?
18:51They were inside the phone.
18:52Yes.
18:53They may have subsequently deleted messages.
18:56My source tells me they did.
18:57I believe my source.
18:58Then there is too much for them to lose in court.
19:02Right.
19:04Well, then we issue a retraction and an apology.
19:06We made a mistake.
19:08We may not have.
19:08We made a mistake, Nick.
19:10There we are.
19:11Ten lashes for you, ten lashes for me.
19:14Two Acres agrees with most of our story.
19:16They did hack the phone.
19:17Surrey Police did know about it, surely.
19:19I have two priorities.
19:20That they don't use this to try and obfuscate the crime they have committed.
19:26A dead girl's phone was hacked.
19:30And my other priority is you.
19:32What was that Carl Bernstein quote?
19:36All great reporting is the same thing.
19:38Best obtainable version of the truth.
19:41I'm going to be absolutely monster.
19:44It serves them very well to try and destroy your reputation.
19:48I don't want to apologise.
19:50Then don't.
19:52The paper has to.
19:53You don't.
19:54Stand up.
19:56Put on some iron underwear and fight.
19:59The monstering was high energy.
20:07Fuck you.
20:08Doubt turned into a certainty that we had got it wrong.
20:11Fuck you.
20:12Richard Caseby, managing editor of The Sun, told the House of Lords Committee that Alan Rusperger
20:16had sexed up his investigation into phone hacking.
20:18Fuck you.
20:20Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times said baldly the Guardian had made it up.
20:23Shame on you.
20:24But beneath all, beneath all that, exaggeration and hostility was the fact that I had stated
20:35as a fact something which now appeared to be untrue.
20:41I had damaged myself and I had exposed the Guardian.
20:46So how are you enjoying it?
20:48Yeah, it's quite a thing.
20:50The outside your house?
20:51Whatever fuel they have, they're readying to throw on the fire.
20:55So why are you so calm?
20:57Oh, I'm an optimist slash pessimist.
20:59I presume I'm capable of great things, and yet assume the worst is about to happen.
21:04You always thought you'd be found out?
21:05Well, my mother said it would be.
21:07Maybe I should be an optimist slash pessimist.
21:09I wouldn't recommend it.
21:11Those are horrible things to your guts.
21:15You're really going to New York?
21:17The police haven't charged me.
21:19Free to go.
21:20Well, you could just stay here.
21:22It'd be yesterday stale toast in no time.
21:26The Evening Standard tried to do a story about me sleeping with my source.
21:30A few weeks later they rang and said I was sleeping with an MP.
21:33Wrong Amelia, and she's married to him.
21:35Yeah.
21:36I just...
21:36I can't.
21:38I don't want to be the story.
21:43No.
21:45No, I'm not sure I do either.
21:48Luckily, they had a booking free for me on Newsnight tonight, and Jeremy Paxman's a notoriously kind interviewer.
21:54You're going on Newsnight.
21:56Yeah, against whoever.
21:58A News International thing will do me most damage.
22:02Steel underpants, filled with stale toast, be fine.
22:05If I don't come back, I mean, I want to say something.
22:16When this is all done, and they tell the story of it, you know, when you look back or write about it,
22:25don't paint me as your protégé.
22:29I mean, I've been at this a long time.
22:33I worked jingle across multiple cases for years.
22:37I mean, it was your story, and Millie would have never happened without you.
22:41But it wouldn't have happened without me either.
22:43You don't need to say any of this.
22:45Don't let them whitewash all the other people out.
22:47You don't need to say any of this.
22:49I actually do.
22:52You have my word.
22:55Okay.
23:02Email me when you get there.
23:04If Paxman hasn't killed you first.
23:06Let him know my corpse.
23:08Good luck, Nick.
23:25Tonight, who knew what and when in the phone hacking scandal?
23:30Could James Murdoch really have been unaware?
23:33Why did the Guardian claim the News of the World deleted voice messages when they had no evidence?
23:38It was the Guardian newspaper's claim, stated as fact, that they'd been erased by the News of the World,
23:42which triggered the shutdown of what was once the biggest-selling paper in the English-speaking world.
23:47Nick Davis, let's cut to the chase.
23:50What you claimed to be a fact wasn't a fact, was it?
23:52The story we published in July was squarely based on the evidence available, correct in saying that her voicemail was deleted.
24:02And it remains the case that News International are not denying that News of the World journalists may have been responsible for those deletions.
24:09Well, let's look at the front page here.
24:11Yeah.
24:12The News of the World hacked Millie Dowler's phone during police hunt,
24:16and the paper deleted missing schoolgirls' voicemails giving family false hope.
24:20Yeah.
24:21And you say in the copy, the messages were deleted by journalists in the first few days after Millie's disappearance.
24:27Everybody who was involved in that story accepted it was true.
24:31It's a very interesting thing that when that story was done...
24:34No, no, no.
24:35Well, you're not allowing me to answer.
24:36Well, no, I'm not, because you're not answering.
24:37Well, you're not asking the right questions.
24:39Oh, I'm sorry.
24:42Everybody involved in that story accepted that that story was true...
24:48And you believed it to be true.
24:49...and continued to accept until four months...
24:51Right.
24:51...four months later...
24:52Perhaps, but...
24:53...new evidence, which was not available to everybody's surprise...
24:55No, you did not report it like that.
24:57...showed that one element of that story is now in doubt.
25:00It has not been proved to be untrue.
25:01So you accept it wasn't true.
25:03Jules Stenson was a features editor of the News of the World.
25:05What do you say?
25:06Well, the key point to this as well is that this wasn't any old story.
25:10This was a story that was the most important story in The Guardian's history.
25:14It was vital that every single element of it should be right.
25:17And Nick Davis repeated that allegation 34 times.
25:20Let's get things in proportion here.
25:22Your newspaper had hacked a murdered girl's telephone.
25:26What we did was indefensible, not just to Millie, but to all the victims of hacking.
25:29I'm not here to justify that in any way.
25:32What I am here to do, though, is to attack the shoddy journalism of The Guardian and the shoddy journalism of Nick.
25:37This is a classic example of the way tabloid newspapers work.
25:41You're in a heap of trouble because for years you personally have taken Murdoch's money and ruined people's lives, invaded people's privacy, engaged in criminal activity.
25:49You've hired private investigators in the past, haven't you?
25:51Private investigators who have broken the law, haven't you, Jules?
25:53I'm not here to justify that.
25:54Haven't you, Jules?
25:55You accuse me of shoddy journalism when your name is all over the records of Steve Whittemore, private investigator who was convicted of using illegal means.
26:03Your name's there.
26:04Information about Jeremy Feakston, about Anne Robinson, about Anna Friwell.
26:08There are public interest factors.
26:10You know what, Jules?
26:10You should just stop.
26:11Take a leaf out of Rupert Murdoch's book and get a bit humble.
26:14Or else just go quiet.
26:15People don't believe you anymore.
26:16Right.
26:17We're not going to be bullied by people like you anymore.
26:19We've had enough of you.
26:19Two years after this, Jules Stenson pled guilty to conspiracy to hack phones.
26:26But, well, I wish I knew that at this moment.
26:30Do I want you?
26:50Detective Chief Superintendent Dave Cook.
27:16I TOGETHEF
27:45Hello?
27:48Hi, Jackie. It's Dave.
27:51David, what's this number?
27:54Listen, Jackie, I...
27:56I need you to pick up my kit.
27:59Where are you calling from?
28:02It's, um...
28:04It's actually a police station number, Jackie. I've been arrested.
28:08What?
28:10On what charge?
28:12It's misconduct. Data protection.
28:21They raided the house.
28:23What, did they find anything?
28:25Some old files.
28:26What files?
28:28Why did you have files at home?
28:31I don't...
28:33What the fuck are they doing?
28:36I don't know, Jackie.
28:39I don't know.
28:42What do we do? How can we help them?
28:44I'm not sure we can help until we know what they have.
28:47Well, we have to do something.
28:49Nick, we both know he was passing information to both of us.
28:52And they've arrested Amelia's socks.
28:55Sit tight. We'll find an answer.
28:57OK, bye.
28:59I don't know what you think you have here.
29:05Would you like a cup of tea, sir?
29:06No.
29:07I would like to leave.
29:09I'm supposed to be given evidence tomorrow.
29:12I'm a participant in Leveson.
29:16Better not suppose you already know that.
29:19This conversation is being recorded, sir.
29:22Yes.
29:23I understand that you've refused legal representation.
29:27Yes.
29:28And I do need to check that you do fully understand your rights.
29:31I'm 40 years in the police force, son.
29:34Yes, I understand my rights.
29:36Good.
29:37All right, let's start from the beginning then, shall we?
29:41Tell me about your relationship with the journalist Mike Sullivan.
29:45No comment.
29:46So you deny passing information to journalists?
29:49And, as you know, police officers working for Operation Elvedon.
29:52Operation Elvedon is about bribery.
29:54I have never accepted money from a journalist in my life.
29:57It is an operation looking into the corrupt relations between police and the press.
30:04News International sent us emails.
30:05News International sent you emails?
30:07They were sent from their server.
30:08Have you any idea how ridiculous that sounds?
30:09Do you deny you were in regular contact with the journalist Mike Sullivan?
30:14Mike Sullivan and I worked together.
30:21It was John Yates who introduced us.
30:24He had access to my investigation in return for writing helpful articles in the newspaper.
30:30I have done nothing that a million police officers before me haven't done.
30:34It is standard police practice.
30:37She did nothing wrong.
30:39Nothing.
30:43Forty years in the police service and you didn't know you broke the law.
30:49Shame on you.
30:50Tommy.
31:20They're trying to get us all.
31:33They're not waiting for any mistake.
31:35Then let's try not to make any mistakes.
31:37Come in, son.
31:38Lindsay found a spare duvet from somewhere.
31:53I don't need to stay.
31:55You should.
31:56I'd like you to.
31:59Having a sleepover with the editor of The Guardian.
32:02Not editor.
32:03Friend.
32:05This, um...
32:07This may not be entirely comfortable.
32:10I should be helping.
32:11Yes, you should.
32:15I have a journalist running away to America.
32:17Two police officers under arrest.
32:19You're so paranoid.
32:21You're having this house periodically debugged and it's...
32:24It's all your fault.
32:25Yeah.
32:28You remember when we first met?
32:32I felt like a child who forgot his pencil.
32:34You were so thrusting and, well, I wasn't.
32:40No, you were ambitious.
32:42Hugely.
32:44Compensating for who knows what.
32:47And I thought, well, if everyone at The Guardian's like him, I'm done for.
32:50Well, thankfully they weren't.
32:53And thankfully, as it turns out, I had something to offer you, as you had something to offer me.
33:03Nick.
33:04Don't mistake the fact you were first through the door with the fact that everyone else went through the same door willingly.
33:15The sacrifices weren't for you.
33:17They were for your cause.
33:19You're part of a team, Nick.
33:21The funny thing is, you always have been.
33:23I think he's going to get away with it.
33:30No, Doc, I think he's going to get away with it.
33:32Perhaps.
33:35Perhaps that's what abusers do.
33:38Get away with things.
33:42Or perhaps not.
33:44Not really.
33:45Maybe, maybe, maybe, deep down inside them, there's just damage.
33:57Yes, but sometimes, yes, but sometimes the damage they cause, sometimes.
34:05I mean, you're not trying to excuse her, him.
34:10No, Nick.
34:11Nick, I'm not trying to excuse your mother or him.
34:18I'm saying all we can do is fight the best we can and hope we prove to be a valiant opponent.
34:30And personally speaking, I'm so proud to have been a part of this great, valiant act.
34:42Whatever happens,
34:45know that.
34:48Oh, God.
35:10You're okay.
35:10You're okay.
35:10Let's do it.
35:30I don't want to.
35:34Don't do it.
35:36Just be full.
35:38I don't know.
36:08Don't worry, you're before me.
36:18I'm just insanely, horrifically early.
36:24It's Jackie, isn't it?
36:25Yes.
36:26I read her statement.
36:28Strong stuff.
36:30Harrowing.
36:31Punchy.
36:32Nick, by the way.
36:33I know, and thank you.
36:34Coming from you, that's, um, thank you.
36:38May I, I mean, I hope it's okay to ask, how's David?
36:49Oh, it's been a week since we spoke, but he's back in his house at least.
36:57He won't take my calls.
36:58He will when he's ready.
36:59It won't be you.
37:01It'll be him.
37:03It's generally him.
37:07He helped, by the way.
37:08I'm not sure whether you're aware.
37:10But he helped all of us.
37:12He was key.
37:14We wouldn't be here without his help.
37:16Sorry.
37:23You do it.
37:24Let your prep, run your lines.
37:31Oh, God.
37:32I'm usually good with details, but for some reason today my mind keeps going blank.
37:36I didn't sleep much.
37:46I didn't sleep much last night.
37:48Not a wink.
37:50Then I don't sleep.
37:51I'm not someone who sleeps.
37:52You've always been like that.
37:53Since I was a boy, yeah.
37:56Dave did tell you I wasn't a simple guy to understand, right?
37:58I've had days recently where I can't remember my own name.
38:07I've been in rooms full of people and forgotten why I'm even there.
38:10I suffer.
38:11I have done for years of panic attacks.
38:15Every time I sat down to write this statement, I'd, um...
38:19But this morning I woke up and I felt clear, clearer than I have done in years.
38:25That's good.
38:26Yes.
38:26And just remember, in the storm of all of this, in all their mere couple of news of the world,
38:38they decided that in the middle of this inquiry to launch the sun on Sunday.
38:49You're right.
38:51They're bold.
38:54Hmm.
38:56That thing you were doing with the ball.
39:08I don't mind.
39:09It helps to calm you.
39:10Oh, God.
39:11I'll drive you insane.
39:11Oh, I've been tested by bigger things.
39:13Please.
39:15Do what you need to do.
39:20Oh.
39:21Yeah.
39:21I'll be honest.
39:33I'm scared of this inquiry.
39:34I'm scared because I think you'll take the wrong recommendations and because you'll destroy something which is precious without rebuilding something better.
39:47I don't want destroyed the notion of the unofficial source.
39:53Sue Akers has arrested 37, 38 people in the four inquiries she's been running.
40:01There have been a couple of arrests of police officers in cases where I know quite a lot about the circumstances.
40:09What's happened there is those officers have been told they will be charged with the common law offense of misconduct in a public office.
40:18Despite, to the best of my knowledge, there being no allegation of any kind of bribe or inducement, what those officers are being told is you will be charged and you can expect to get a prison term of up to 18 months because you've spoken to a reporter without permission.
40:38Now, these two cases are live, we don't know how they'll turn out.
40:44May well be that the Crown Prosecution Service will say, hang on a moment, this doesn't apply.
40:49But I think it's worrying, and this is in the wake of the phone hacking, I worry that it might be a completely unjustifiable and unnecessary backlash to the allegation of collusion between News International and the Met.
41:06And the ultimate effect here may be to prevent unauthorized contact between journalists and police.
41:15When, as a matter of fact, without this unauthorized contact, the Metropolitan Police would have been allowed to carry on misleading press, public and parliament about this whole scandal.
41:23Now, I'm also scared that this inquiry might misstep in a different direction, might soften itself as its attack from outside sources.
41:35I have been under attack in one form or another ever since I first attempted to reveal the practice of hacking.
41:40And I represent here today a team of people, all of whom have been under similar attacks.
41:49They've had to face extraordinary things to be part of this fight.
41:53But they've done so because what you're doing here today is precious.
42:02News.
42:03I think the best definition of it, news is what someone somewhere doesn't want you to know.
42:09The most difficult, skillful, interesting, important stuff that reporters do is about finding human sources and motivating them to help reveal that news.
42:23And I can tell you of someone at the front line of that, news is also often what someone is reluctant to tell.
42:32So it's hard to motivate a human source to reveal their truth.
42:40I'd say, look, if I talk to you and they realize I've done this, then I'll lose my job or my career.
42:47Or I'll be beaten up.
42:48I'll be arrested or embarrassed or ashamed.
42:51I will hurt people who love me.
42:53It's a very sensitive moment.
42:55You have to make those people safe.
42:57You have to make those people realize their truth is worth the risk.
43:08What these hackers did was about cutting out that human connection.
43:16These so-called journalists didn't find the truth.
43:19They didn't persuade people to come with them.
43:20They just stole.
43:23They took.
43:24And humanity was lost in that moment.
43:31Not only in the privacy that was invaded, but also in the stories told from it.
43:36Our papers became dishrags of distorted content.
43:40A set of rogue journalists working for a rogue corporation undermined the very tenets of journalism.
43:53The very tenets of truth-telling.
43:55If this inquiry succeeds, we may be able to rebuild our newspapers.
44:05We may be able to make them what they should be.
44:13Fail.
44:15And News International will have trapped us all in their shadow.
44:18And I'm scared that we will never get out.
44:23For all, I will never get out.
44:26All in the days.
44:28I am.
44:28I am.
44:28I am.
44:29I am.
44:30I am.
44:30I am.
44:44I am.
44:45I am.
44:45I am.
44:45I am.
44:45I am.
44:46I am.
44:46I am.
44:48I am.
44:50I am.
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