- 4 days ago
The star of the Apple TV+ show, along with showrunners Lee Eisenberg and Drew Crevello, sits for The Hollywood Reporter’s Closer Look panel.
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00:00Thank you for joining us for The Hollywood Reporter's A Closer Look.
00:14I'm with the talent behind Apple TV Plus' We Crashed.
00:18Alright, thank you so much for joining us.
00:20Lee and Drew, first question for you both.
00:23I mean, I think for anyone, there's been a lot of content about WeWork.
00:27There's obviously The Great Reporting, there is a documentary series,
00:32the podcast that shares the name with this.
00:34Why did you two feel like, okay, we need something else here?
00:37You know, there's so much material on WeWork,
00:40and The Wondery Podcast was something that was brought to us before the show even,
00:44before the podcast had even come out.
00:46And we both were aware of the stories,
00:48but listening to the podcast really gave us a great overview of, you know,
00:52the story of Adam and Rebecca and the story of the rise and fall of WeWork.
00:56And you've seen the story of WeWork kind of told.
00:59Adam and Rebecca, if you go on YouTube, you can see a million interviews of them
01:02telling the kind of the origin story of this company.
01:05And what we were excited to do was kind of pull back the curtain a little bit,
01:10and we talked to former employees and former roommates of theirs and investors
01:15all of these different people to create a 360 degree view of what the company was like
01:21and what they were like.
01:22And that was something that we didn't think we had quite seen.
01:25And that's what was exciting to us as storytellers.
01:27Yeah.
01:28I think also something that's really present in the show is that relationship between Adam and Rebecca.
01:33I know you both have sort of referenced this as a love story of some sorts.
01:37Why did you kind of want to approach this with that romance angle rather than, say, like a business story?
01:43It's interesting.
01:45I think people think that we kind of decided to do this as a love story, as sort of a storytelling angle
01:51or some kind of gimmick or contrivance.
01:54And really, as we listened to that fantastic podcast and as we started doing some of our own research,
02:00that was the story as we perceived it to be.
02:04In Adam's own words, when he relates the kind of founding origin myth of WeWork, Rebecca is at the center of it, right?
02:12I mean, we always laugh about some of Adam's earlier ventures, selling baby clothes with, you know, knee pads
02:20and collapsible women's heels and, you know, he was this fantastic salesman and a hustler looking for that great idea.
02:30And she directed him toward that to the idea that really became WeWork.
02:35So the answer is, it wasn't so much a choice as us reflecting what we thought was really the reality of this company.
02:43Adam, come on.
02:47I just think there's something better we can do with your father's money, yes.
02:53Better? How? Better than an apartment with a key to Gramercy Park?
02:57Yes, we can invest in our future.
02:59I don't even know what I would tell him.
03:02I mean, do you, I don't think you fully appreciate what, uh, he, what he went through to...
03:07Just tell him you believe in your husband.
03:17This is for us.
03:19I think also one of the other relationships in this show that really stood out to me
03:24was that between Adam and Masa.
03:27Um, it feels like for the most part, Adam doesn't really care about impressing, like his board of directors.
03:33But when it comes to Masa, he'll take a phone call in the middle of the night.
03:37He, it feels like the expansion plans were really driven by Masa telling him, be crazier.
03:42Um, Jared, I'm curious what you thought about that relationship between Adam and Masa.
03:47I mean, why do you think he felt the need to impress him so much?
03:51Well, I have to say a collapsible, uh, heel is still a great idea.
03:56It is!
03:57It actually is!
03:58It actually is!
03:59Hold on, hold on.
04:00I know.
04:01There have been nights when I've had a heel on and I wish that I could go flat.
04:05That is, uh, a beautiful thing.
04:08In that scene, by the way, Jared improved all the colors that he wanted to sell the heel in.
04:13Yeah.
04:14And it was just, uh, it's, we laughed at that.
04:16I do remember we were going down the list of different descriptions of brown,
04:20mauve, which there are many.
04:23Who knew that brown could be so much fun?
04:26Yes.
04:27Brown's underrated.
04:28Yeah.
04:29It's funny.
04:30In, uh, House of Gucci, there was a thing with brown too, where the guy, you know, my,
04:33my uncle says pastels and brown.
04:35So how could you mix those two?
04:37That's a beautiful thing of all of your work is the, uh, is the color brown.
04:41Yeah.
04:42Yeah, it's weird.
04:43Um, anyway, I don't know the question.
04:45Back to the question.
04:46No, I was curious about, yeah, Masa.
04:48Masa, I mean, I really enjoyed my scenes, uh, with Masa and, you know, he was this father
04:55figure, um, um, and really had a lot to do with the trajectory of the company.
05:02Uh, you know, that, that injection of that kind of capital and the encouragement from
05:08a person in a position of great power, looking at Adam and saying, Hey, you know what?
05:13You're, you're, you're not crazy enough.
05:15Take this and just go.
05:17I think at the time they were actually trying to raise just a humble sum of like 500 million.
05:23But Masa said, you know, here's 4 billion.
05:27And I don't know about you, but I'm sure we would all be perfect stewards of 4 billion
05:31dollars if someone gave us the check.
05:34But, uh, Adam did tell me when they took that check, it was the beginning of the end.
05:39Yeah.
05:40And the way that we structured the season, the end of episode four of the eight episodes
05:44is, uh, Adam showing Rebecca the, uh, the, the iPad with the 4.4 billion, the episodes
05:50called 4.4.
05:51And that to us was exactly what Jared said is that was the beginning of the end.
05:55That was the worst thing that could have ever happened to Adam Newman.
05:57It felt.
05:58Why do you think that was?
05:59Because the company wasn't able to grow organically.
06:02It's, you know, it's, you get $4.4 billion and someone says, be crazier.
06:06You're, you know, they're opening the beginning of episode five, they're opening locations all
06:11over the world, but they're scaling at such a speed that like there wasn't a front door
06:15at a place.
06:16There wasn't an operational bathroom.
06:17And so what started off as a company that was growing in this really nice kind of gradual
06:21way.
06:22And you knew the people that you worked with and you were able to kind of have quality
06:25control.
06:26All of a sudden you're, you can't expand at that, at that rate and maintain the quality
06:30of the company.
06:31Yeah.
06:32In episode five, they, when we kind of do this montage where, where, where Adam kind
06:37of bangs through these, there's these different problems in the international, uh, opening these
06:41international offices.
06:42And he runs through these different solutions.
06:45Every one of them is based on an actual problem and solution that Adam encountered.
06:50So him saying, you know, we don't have a working bathroom, tell them to go use the coffee shop.
06:56That was, that was actually the one that we didn't use that we just ran out of time was
07:01in, I think in Buenos Aires, they didn't have their liquor license.
07:05And so their first day, uh, the SWAT team just burst into WeWork and just like, just seized
07:11everything because they didn't have their liquor license and like shut down WeWork.
07:14Because they had the taps of beer.
07:15Yeah, exactly.
07:16Yeah.
07:17And they were like, oh, it's kombucha.
07:18We were about it.
07:19Yeah.
07:20How would I come to one of your board meetings in a bathroom?
07:24Don't be dramatic.
07:25Okay.
07:26Can we not do this here, here, of all places?
07:29Okay.
07:30Then what are we supposed to do it?
07:31When you come home in the middle of the night?
07:33Based.
07:34That happened twice.
07:35Twice.
07:36You're going to destroy everything we have built.
07:38We built.
07:39We built.
07:40Did you say we built?
07:41I built this.
07:42I built it.
07:43Take and take and take and take and take.
07:45You wanted to be an actor.
07:47I gave you a theater.
07:48You wanted to be an executive.
07:50I gave you a job.
07:51You wanted to be an educator.
07:53I built you up.
07:54I built you up.
07:55School.
07:56You, you think you built this?
07:58You built it.
07:59Shit.
08:00Thinking about pivotal moments in the show though, I think also one of the interesting turns
08:04and the relationship between Adam and Rebecca.
08:06I mean, we see it kind of changing over time, of course, but there is that big monologue
08:11that Adam gives to Rebecca saying, it's not we, like I created this.
08:15This was me.
08:16And of course that, that shatters the trust that they had with each other.
08:21What were the things you were thinking about leading up to that moment or why or what caused
08:26Adam to suddenly think, no, this is all me.
08:28This we work is not we, it's me.
08:32You know, I think that it sort of harkens back to your question about why do this when
08:37there's a podcast and there's a documentary and there's two books.
08:42Really the interesting thing for us as writers and I believe for Jared and Annie as performers
08:49is what are the moments in between the headlines, right?
08:54And sort of trying to do enough research that you construct these psychological profiles
09:00of these people and try to really get, you know, behind the scenes of those moments.
09:04So just with, in our interviews and our research and also, and just kind of creating the character
09:11of Adam, it just, it felt to us like in getting that 4 billion in, you know, some of his id
09:20was coming out and some of the narcissism was coming out and it just felt like, it just rang
09:26true to us in terms of where they were as a couple.
09:29So everything kind of tying back to that, that big check and then devolving.
09:33There were also, I mean, there were, I can't remember what we put in the show, but I mean,
09:36I actually, I think we put both of them in the show.
09:38Adam Newman said he didn't want to be a billionaire.
09:40He wanted to be a trillionaire.
09:41And he also said he wanted to be president of the world.
09:43He wanted to be president of the world.
09:44And so it takes us, it takes us a specific type of person.
09:48And also somebody telling you, you know, the, the 4.4 billion is, is validation in a way
09:54that all of your hard work and all of your fundraising that you're outsized.
09:58I mean, when you start, you know, you start talking about someone as a unicorn,
10:01unicorns don't exist.
10:03And so it's like, you're kind of a mythological creature in a way.
10:06And I think, I think he started believing that.
10:08Yeah.
10:09Yeah.
10:10Jared, I know you've in the past spoken about, you were a little bit hesitant to take this role
10:14because you didn't want to vilify, you know, a real life person.
10:17And I know you had a quote unquote secret meeting with Adam.
10:20That's not so secret anymore.
10:22I'm curious now that you're a little bit removed from the role and kind of looking back at Adam's actions.
10:29I mean, how do you take it all in?
10:31Do you, do you think he's a con person, a scammer?
10:33I wouldn't describe him that way.
10:37I mean, I, I, you know, when this happened, he was investigated by, you know, the securities,
10:45SEC and, you know, never accused of a crime.
10:52He, he, he, he made a lot of mistakes and he didn't, he wasn't successful in staying at the, the helm of the company.
11:00And, you know, we look at his greatest successes and his greatest failures.
11:06Uh, but I was never interested in a two dimensional caricature.
11:11Um, I just, not my thing.
11:13I think we've seen some shows in similar spaces, kind of look at people and, in a certain way.
11:20Uh, and I just thought it would be a richer experience for me as a performer and for audiences.
11:26Um, if I did my best to explore the nuances, the humanity, and, you know, we, we were all on the same page.
11:35Uh, with that, it was something I was concerned with at the very beginning, not just because here's a fairly young person with a family and kids.
11:43And, um, it's such a relevant recent story.
11:47So that, that weighed on me a bit, but, uh, you know, I, I think I, I'd like to think we did a pretty good job, um, examining our Adam, our character.
11:58And when I met him, I told him like, look, this is never going to be you.
12:02It's not going to be your story.
12:03It's fiction.
12:04Uh, and, uh, uh, I also told him not to watch it.
12:09You know?
12:10And he was like, I think he said, why?
12:12I was like, well, you already lived through it once.
12:15It's probably enough.
12:16You know?
12:17Yeah.
12:18You know, but I'm glad that I did meet him.
12:21Um, I'm glad that I took that meeting.
12:23I wanted to look into his eyes.
12:24I had a list of questions and I have to say, I liked him a lot.
12:28I found it to be very charming.
12:30Uh, and, uh, you know, it's easy.
12:33It's hard not to, um, admire their relationship in, in a lot of ways.
12:41Their loyalty, their six children, right?
12:43Now that they have run around the house and, uh, you know, they have a very deep, real connection.
12:50And, um, it was a really interesting journey to take.
12:55I'd never played a part before.
12:57I said this to you last night.
12:58Um, never, never played a real person, uh, that's, uh, still alive.
13:03Um, and that was pretty fascinating.
13:06And we were buried in material because there's so much because it's so recent.
13:11And of course you have the podcast and everything else, but there's so many interviews.
13:15There's so much, uh, work to be buried in.
13:19And that was great.
13:20Yeah.
13:21I loved it.
13:22I'm curious.
13:23What did you ask him in that meeting?
13:25A lot.
13:26Um, and it was great to kind of get confirmation of things.
13:29And I came in with a pretty long list of questions and things that I, I was curious about.
13:34And also just to see him kind of move.
13:36And, you know, when you're, when you're stepping into the shoes of somebody, you really can never
13:41learn enough.
13:42Um, as far as I'm concerned, you know, uh, um, so I was excited.
13:47I'd done so much work and to kind of come face to face with him was, was, it was intense.
13:52We were both, um, it was a charged meeting, you know, for both of us, I think.
13:57Uh, um, but I liked them a lot.
14:00And I, I actually found out from the writers of the book, I was asking about, you know,
14:05specifics, mannerisms, behavior, habits, and they did say that someone told them that,
14:11um, Adam would lick his plate after he ate a meal.
14:15Yep.
14:16It's not a big deal in the world.
14:18We've all licked the plate.
14:19Absolutely.
14:20Well, I had that slice of pie that just was, but it was something that he did.
14:24And when I went down there, you know, I asked them about it and, and the family was around
14:29the table and they started laughing.
14:30And yes, he would lick his plate from time to time.
14:34And, and, uh, uh, it was, it was quite sweet and charming, but also I thought indicative
14:41of, of, of who he was, uh, the, the, the appetite that he had for life and that he was never quite
14:47finished and, um, kind of related to his ambition in a way.
14:52So I, I don't know if it's in there, but we did, we did, we had a scene where we, we,
14:57we, uh, we threw the, the, the licking of the plate in there.
15:00Excellent.
15:01Yeah.
15:02All right.
15:03I know this is obviously a real life story, so the events have certainly not ended.
15:07I mean, Adam Newman is sort of trying to make a comeback of sorts.
15:11He's got a new company.
15:12It's sort of like a blockchain powered tech venture.
15:16It's raised some 70 million in funding given sort of his leadership of WeWork.
15:22I'm curious why you all think investors might still want to work with him.
15:27I mean, from people, I mean, from people that we spoke to, as Jared said, I mean, he's incredibly impressive.
15:34He's, he's, I think he's a kind of an unparalleled salesman.
15:37And, and by the way, a salesman with a great idea.
15:41Yeah.
15:42We work as an excellent idea.
15:43And he, and he started a company from nothing.
15:45And, and, you know, if you take out the masa part of it and the mistakes he made and, you know, maybe growing too fast, he did build a, he did build a very successful company that attracted all these investors.
15:55And the people that, that, that worked at WeWork and a lot of people we spoke to that lived at WeLive and, you know, and people we spoke to that their kids went to WeGrow, all of those things were excellent.
16:07People really, on the whole, really liked those places.
16:11And so they really were able to pull something off.
16:13And again, 70 million is also very different from 4.4 billion.
16:17Yeah.
16:18I think you just need a few people to kind of step in and say, maybe he can do it again.
16:22And hopefully, hopefully Adam has learned from his mistakes as we all have from things that have happened in our past.
16:27And you kind of course correct.
16:29And I am not an investor, but I, I, it doesn't seem, it doesn't seem, it doesn't seem absurd to me that other people have come in.
16:36I imagine the employees who worked for him, they feel a little bit differently.
16:40I would imagine so.
16:41Yeah.
16:42Yeah.
16:43Ritka, why are you sitting in the dark?
16:46I wanted to catch you before you got high.
16:51Our first date.
16:54There were so many red flags.
16:58You saw me.
17:01You looked across the table and you saw me, right?
17:07Alicia asked me if you were for real.
17:12I told her yes, but I didn't tell her how many nights I lie in bed alone wondering if I make you up.
17:22When I guess if you first saw them together, Jared and Anne together on set, was there anything that made you feel like this needs to change in the script because of this dynamic, we need to make this change?
17:33I will say this.
17:34I will say this.
17:35So as Jared said, we had started with the third episode and part of it was he was coming in from, from Gucci and there was still all kinds of travel rules.
17:46So we had started with a couple of rules.
17:47So we had started with a couple of Anne scenes and Lee and I always talk about this.
17:52We remember the day where we had started shooting with Anne and shot some stuff and we're midway through the day.
17:59And Rebecca is in bed and Adam has been out partying and Adam's returning to the home and Jared enters for the first time ever sort of in full character and then proceeded to basically improv the entire scene.
18:18And it was completely electric. And, and Lee and I afterwards were like, what just happened? And that's the scene that's in the show.
18:28For me, one of the first moments was when we did the Baruch college scene and you're kind of, it was, it was one of Adam's first kind of pre presentations to a crowd.
18:36And I called drew afterwards and I said, I think, I think we have something like, it was just, I was mesmerized.
18:42I was like, Oh, I would invest in anything that this guy, that was the moment that you decided not to fire.
18:47That was the moment I decided not to fire you. Cause I had one, I had one call, I had the bat phone and then.
18:53Thank you for sticking with me.
18:57They said it would cost too much to shut down. So we just said.
19:00There was a bit of pressure too, because, you know, we were, it was a transformation and I was coming off of House of Gucci and then playing this Italian, you know, genius.
19:12This Italian artist who makes pastels and browns very well.
19:17Never met a, a, a, a pattern he didn't like, but you know, and then straight into this, this character.
19:26So it was, uh, uh, exciting to walk on that set for the first time.
19:32And then of course, to be with the one and only Annie Hathaway, um, uh, her, her incredible partner in crime here, but she's, uh, was just terrific.
19:43And, you know, up until the last minute, I, I really thought I probably should jump out a window, uh, because when you, when you're risking all of that and you know, it is a work in progress.
19:59A lot of people don't know this, but we started, we shot the third episode first, which gave us a chance to kind of get all of our, our stuff.
20:07Thank God that you guys did that.
20:10What a, what a beautiful, um, uh, opportunity it gave us.
20:16Uh, not that it wasn't a big episode.
20:18I mean, we were right.
20:19It was, it was the summer camp on the stage and all of this.
20:24Yeah.
20:25Yeah.
20:26But I think the nose is different in that episode.
20:28If you look closely.
20:29Yeah.
20:30Oh, I'm going to have to rewatch that.
20:32I'll look for that.
20:33We're glad you didn't notice.
20:34I know.
20:35The one thing I do want to add is speaking of, uh, of Anne, there's three of us up here, but really it was a, it was a real four person team and, uh, and, and filming her next project right now, but really, I mean, just, uh, brought as much, if not more commitment than, than any of us.
20:53And, uh, and really was, was all in.
20:55Yeah.
20:56It was really spectacular.
20:57Okay.
20:58The last one I want to ask all of you to end this, um, it's a question from the show.
21:03Who would win in a fight?
21:05Smart person or the crazy person?
21:07We can't answer the one with all the money.
21:09No.
21:10You cannot.
21:11You gotta pick one or the other.
21:12That is the answer.
21:13Let's pretend that's not on the table.
21:14Okay.
21:15Are we each going to answer?
21:16Yes.
21:17All right.
21:18And tell me why, as yourselves, not your characters.
21:19Lee?
21:20Oh boy.
21:21That's hard.
21:22Who wins in a fight?
21:25I think the crazy person wins in a fight.
21:27Hmm.
21:28And I, I think a little bit about the show and the people, the people that are, the people
21:33that end up creating these giant companies, I think that you need to have a little bit
21:37of, uh, crazy in you.
21:39And, uh, the, the kind of the iconoclasts and these people that no one believes in them
21:47and have ideas that are kind of outside, uh, the norm.
21:50I think that those people are the ones that rise.
21:52And I think that, I guess when I think of smart as in compare, in comparison to crazy in this argument, it feels a little bit like smart is safe and smart kind of colors within the lines.
22:03And I think the quote unquote, the unicorns, uh, color outside of the lines.
22:07Hmm.
22:08Uh, I think I have a similar answer.
22:11I think I would say the crazy one and that's, it's, it's, it's what we sort of tried to do with the show, which is to kind of depict that you need crazy people, right?
22:24Crazy people make the world go around.
22:26It's the engine of innovation and it's, it's what kind of-
22:29Thank you, Drew.
22:32Exactly.
22:33But with, you know, innovators and entrepreneurs and artists and, you know, you need people who break things and disrupt, um, and revolutionize.
22:42And to go back to, you know, the, the, the notion of investors and, and Adam's next, you know, Adam's next project.
22:49What we tried to kind of show is this is a guy who gave someone a, a 12 minute tour and talk someone into $12 billion, you know, into a, into an investment, $4 billion investment.
23:02But what does it say about the person who invested $4 billion right after a 12 minute tour?
23:07Hmm.
23:08So I think, you know, I think that, uh, answer is the crazy pit person wins.
23:13Uh, and I think that some craziness is good.
23:16Uh, it's just lessons need to be learned and there is collateral damage and the employees were the collateral damage here.
23:24So, uh, so hopefully craziness within limits.
23:28It's crazy, but not too crazy.
23:30Not too crazy.
23:31You're hedging the crazy.
23:32Yeah.
23:33Crazy, but not too crazy is a great answer.
23:35Okay.
23:36The answer should be, no one wins in a fight.
23:40Ah.
23:41Really.
23:42Um, but unfortunately, um, I would have to say the crazy person too, because the smart person probably thinks a little too long, you know, about the consequences before maybe they throw the first punch, you know?
23:56Um, maybe it shouldn't be that way, but, uh, it was a crazy adventure.
24:04I'll tell you that.
24:05And, uh, working with these two guys was just an absolute privilege.
24:09It was such a joy to get every script.
24:13Um, I don't know how often they came in.
24:16Sometimes it took like a long time.
24:18Yeah.
24:19Sometimes it felt like they would never come.
24:21I signed on with one script and it was so, it was great.
24:24That was your first mistake.
24:25That's my first mistake.
24:26Yes.
24:27When we talk about that though, that, I mean, Jared, uh, really took a leap of faith with us.
24:31I mean, you know, he comes from features and it's like, you read the whole script, you meet with the director, you meet, you know, maybe the writers or the producers and you decide to join a project.
24:38This, he read 60 pages of what ended up becoming 480 pages and said, okay, I'll, I know an eighth of the story and sure guys, let's do this.
24:47But then, and had a hand in the 420 pages that, that, that were to come.
24:51Yeah.
24:52Yeah.
24:53I heard there was a lot of dialogue added for those.
24:56Yes.
24:57And it was a beautiful experience.
24:59I mean, the thing that I, I always, I talked about with Drew yesterday too, is the, um, and it's, I don't know why it's so on my mind with this project, but the, the, the, the, the crew was phenomenal.
25:12Yeah.
25:13And, and really the, the support, the dedication that you, I just think of the PAs running around and working so hard.
25:19I think of those grips that always took such good care of me and everyone.
25:24And, uh, um, and it was coming out of that wave of COVID.
25:29Uh, I was saying when I first got to New York, like you could walk across Broadway without looking both ways, you know, there wasn't a car barely in sight.
25:37And, and then the world started to come alive, the weather changed, the vaccine was rolling out.
25:42And it was a really, a beautiful and magical time to be part of this, this project.
25:47And, uh, it is exhausting as it got, um, because of the, the length of the shoot and the material of the dialogue, there wasn't a day, a single second that went by that.
25:59I wasn't just filled with gratitude to be there.
26:02It was a really, really, really special experience.
26:05Thank you so much.
26:06That was so great.
26:07Thanks for joining us.
26:08Thanks for joining us.
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