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UP moves to drop Dadri case charges; TMC, BJP clash over SIR in Bengal
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00:01Very good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary.
00:03Before we dive into our big debate of the day, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:11Unseen video of bomber Omar on India Today makes big Fidain attack revelations,
00:17spine-chilling message before blast. Omar explains idea of suicide bombing.
00:25Well, this has to be the most sinister reveal in Delhi's attack plot.
00:29The top Jaish module was planning air attacks.
00:31Delhi module plotted Hamas-type terror drone plot.
00:38It's a win for India as gangster Lawrence Bishnoi's brother, Anmol Bishnoi,
00:42is being brought to India from the US.
00:44He was wanted in Baba Siddiqi murder case and was also involved in shooting at Salman Khan's residence.
00:50Top Naxal commander Madhvi Hidma killed in an encounter in Andhra.
01:00Big step towards Naxal Mukh Bharat, man behind 26 deadly attacks killed.
01:06Meanwhile, the Prime Minister makes an urban Naxal attack on the Congress,
01:13calls Congress Muslim League, Mawwadi Congress, as Congress shielded Naxals.
01:22Congress top brass keeps Chief Minister Sidhara Maya hanging.
01:26Sources say, Kharge Sidhu meet in Delhi in conclusive.
01:29Kharge saw time to discuss WeJig with Rahul.
01:43All right, viewers, our top story comes in from an incident that had taken place 10 years ago,
01:48where Mohamed Akhlak was lynched.
01:51He and his son were dragged out of their residence.
01:54They used to live in a small village in Dadri, Uttar Pradesh.
01:57A temple close by announced that there was beef in the refrigerator of Akhlak.
02:03They both were bought out. Akhlak died.
02:06And 10 years on, the Uttar Pradesh government has now decided to withdraw the cases against the 19 accused.
02:14Which leads us to ask one question.
02:16Who lynched Akhlak?
02:24Did no one lynch Mohamed Akhlak?
02:3110 years on, Uttar Pradesh government moves to drop charges against all accused.
02:37Aavee, normalizing hate.
02:44One incident 10 years ago left the country in shock.
02:47Mohamed Akhlak was mob lynched in a village in Dadri, Uttar Pradesh,
02:54on charges of cow slaughter and storing beef.
02:58An incident that glaringly exposed the deepening communal fault lines in the Hindi heartland.
03:09The then home minister, Rajanath Singh, had promised action against those trying to break communal harmony.
03:17A case dragged on for a decade.
03:21The 19 accused were out on bail.
03:2510 years after the brutal lynching of Mohamed Akhlak,
03:30the Uttar Pradesh government has now moved to withdraw all charges against those accused in the case.
03:37On 15th October 2025, the state filed an application under Section 321 of the Criminal Procedure Code,
03:52seeking to drop all charges against 19 accused.
03:55The government cited five reasons.
04:01Reason 1.
04:02The family of Akhlak, his wife, daughter and son, allegedly changed their testimony.
04:08A charge denied by the family.
04:11Reason 2.
04:12Investigators reportedly only recovered sticks, iron rods and bricks, not firearms or sharp weapons.
04:19Reason 3.
04:21The application claims that there was no documented prior hostility between Akhlak's family and the accused.
04:29Reason 4.
04:30The state invokes the right to equal protection,
04:33arguing that every citizen, both accused and accuser, deserve fairness under the law.
04:39Reason 5.
04:40The application frames this withdrawal as a step to restore social harmony in a deeply polarizing context.
04:48The matter simmering in political stew for a decade is now on full boil.
05:14On 28th September 2015, Bisara village of Dadiri.
05:44A mob had dragged Akhlak and his son Dhanish from their home after a temple announced, accusing him of storing beef.
05:53The case caused national uproar then, leading to arrests, media tensions and debates.
06:00Two years later, a forensic report from a lab in Mathura confirmed that the meat seized from Akhlak's home indeed belonged to a cow or its progeny.
06:14Akhlak's family, though alleged, tampering with samples.
06:18However, as the media spotlight faded, ten years on, Bisara Dadiri is a village torn by communal violence.
06:30Akhlak's house lies abandoned.
06:32The Hindu-Muslim wedge has cut in so deep to ever mend again.
06:38And now, the state wanting to drop all charges.
06:43The subtext, which is now bolder than the headline.
06:46All right, add to that, a shocking case of lynching accused not facing consequences.
07:00Kashi Na Chaudhary, one accused in Palgarh of lynching sadhus, joined the BJP with thousands of supporters in the presence of MP Heman Savara at the party's district president office.
07:14The move immediately triggered sharp criticism from the opposition.
07:17The NCP leader's question, the BJP's hypocrisy, and the BJP has now temporarily halted his membership.
07:25In an address to the media, Chaudhary said his family is under immense mental pressure due to the reports circulating in the media at the time of the incident.
07:33He said he had gone to another place and was instant blamed for the incident.
07:37For now, his joining the Bharatiya Janata party has been put on hold due to the criticism.
07:43But on the other account, viewers, let's focus on what happened at the Dadari village 10 years ago.
07:52And Akhlak today, still no justice delivered, where the Uttar Pradesh police is actually looking at taking back the cases against the 19 accused.
08:03Joining me for more, Tahseen Poonawalla, political analyst.
08:06Anila Singh, national spokesperson, BJP.
08:08Swati Khanna, advocate, Delhi High Court.
08:10I'd like to begin with Swati. Swati is somebody who's taken many cases such as this, in the past, that is.
08:17Swati, would you take a moment to reflect?
08:19It's been a decade.
08:21You know, at that point of time, multiple media debates.
08:26You know, you had the home minister then, Mr. Rajanad Singh, come out and say that strongest action would be taken for anyone who's trying to, you know, bring communal disharmony.
08:36All of that is now faded. Strangely, the Uttar Pradesh government has decided to withdraw the case, drop the case against the 19 accused.
08:46Thank you. Thank you for first calling me to this discussion.
08:52I just want to say that this is not shocking to me because I feel that this is the modus operandi of the state.
08:59Why? Because even though it's an egregious, horrendous act of ruling power and collision with the murderers,
09:04I still see that the person who commits a crime is a murderer, but the person who hides the crime, aids the murderer, is also an accomplice.
09:13So I would call the state here an accomplice to the murder.
09:16And it is not just murder, it's cold blood murder.
09:20And it's still, when I was listening to your story, it's still a sense of chill down my spine when I hear that a mob led by BGP local leader's son and his cousin,
09:32everybody went to this house and killed the person and also the son who was also grievously injured.
09:38Now, the case is still going on.
09:40Now, first of all, justice is not delivered.
09:43That is for sure.
09:44Justice is also delayed.
09:46First of all, 10 years have passed.
09:48There's no conviction, no acquittal, case still on evidence stage.
09:52Now, yes, I did deal with a few other cases where I have been defending some accused who are human rights activists under UAPA.
10:03They are languishing in jail five plus years without a trial.
10:07Here the trial is going on.
10:09They got a bail in 302.
10:11They are out.
10:12Now, the government has the audacity to blatantly come out and file such an application as 321 or 360 corresponding to BNSS.
10:21And I just have to question myself that as young lawyers and also lawyers who are officers of court, we just don't have to follow the letter of law which says 321, section 321.
10:31Okay, there's a section 321 which allows you to withdraw the case.
10:35But there's also something called spirit of law.
10:37Where is the spirit of law here?
10:39Now, I do understand that this application is pending and it has to be decided on December 12th if I'm not wrong.
10:45So, on December 12th, I would urge that and I hope that the learner session judge dismisses this application.
10:51Swati, you had two minutes that those are over.
10:54Anila Singh, we're going to give you two extra minutes because we have a two against one panel and primarily it's happened is because the prosecution, you know, from the side of those 19 accused or the lawyer of the 19 accused chose not to come.
11:08So, Anila Singh, I'm going to come back to you and then we'll go to Tahseen and we'll come back to you.
11:12But, Anila Singh, the government has given and that's your government.
11:15You represent the Uttar Pradesh government.
11:17You're a spokesperson for the Uttar Pradesh government.
11:19Therefore, we have you on the show.
11:20Five reasons, Anila Singh, that the government has given on why they need to drop the cases against the 19 accused.
11:27Number one, the family of a clerk allegedly changed their testimonies over time.
11:32On record, the family says that they have not changed their testimonies.
11:36They have identified 12 of the 19 accused and they continue to do so, identify 12 of the 19 accused.
11:42Number two, and tell me, Anila Singh, if you don't find this bizarre.
11:46That, this is what, you know, the government says.
11:52That reportedly, that investigating team only recovered rods, iron rods, bricks and sticks.
12:00No sharp weapon was recovered.
12:02Therefore, how can a person be beaten to death or lynched?
12:05You know, I would reckon you would understand that iron rods were recovered, bricks were recovered.
12:11Number three, the application claims there was no documented prior hostility.
12:16So, just because a clerk in the 19 accused did not have prior animosity or enmity, therefore, how can they actually come and kill a clerk?
12:25Number four, the state invokes the right to equal protection, arguing that every citizen has the right to defend themselves.
12:33Number five, and this is a little bizarre.
12:35The state says that the withdrawal is a step to restore social harmony in a polarized society.
12:43Ma'am, I would think, let's begin with number five, we'll come to number two, is taking steps, speedy deliverance of justice would be something that will deliver social harmony.
12:53And number two, you tell me, ma'am, iron rod, brick, is that enough to kill somebody or do you really need a sharp weapon or an arm, a rifle?
13:06My ram ram to all, and Piti, I am not expert in doing murders and I am not a detective, I am not a police officer.
13:15So, I do not know by which weapons you can kill and by which weapons you cannot kill.
13:20So, I won't be able to comment on the question which you have asked me right now.
13:25But let me, to start with, first of all, let me make it absolutely clear that the Dadari incident is not only obnoxious, it is tragic, it is condemnable.
13:37And my government, my political party, totally, totally criticise it.
13:42And we do not support any sort of mob violence, but, but, Piti, here, in democracy, justice has to be based on facts, evidence and due process.
13:53Like, not on political narratives or the media trials or on the sentiments.
13:59Just now, I was listening to the advocate, Swati, and she was saying that the present government in Uttar Pradesh is a complete in this murder.
14:09Perhaps she doesn't know the case properly, that is why she is making such comments.
14:14And as an advocate, she must know this thing, that any trial or any justice is not given on the basis of any sort of sentiments.
14:24All right, so proper investigation with facts, with evidences, everything should be there, and then the justice is delivered.
14:31Just now, she was making all sentimental speech as any politician could have done.
14:36And you narrated the five things which the prosecutor has pleaded in the court, that why this case under Section 321 should be withdrawn.
14:47And I am pretty sure that the Honourable Court is wise enough and knows all the legalities before it is going to take any sort of step or the justice will be delivered.
15:02So, why it is being taken that Bhakti Jadda Party government in Uttar Pradesh simply wants to polarise...
15:10Ma'am, I'll come back to you. You'll get your two minutes later. Ma'am, you're going to get two extra minutes than the panel because, like I said, it's two is to one.
15:16But I'll come back to the point which you said that you're not an expert.
15:19But ma'am, you know, I think you're a very, very smart lady. I've had you on my show multiple times and you would know and understand and accept that iron rod is enough to lynch someone and kill them.
15:30And I would think you'd understand that. Any smart person would and you're very, very smart.
15:34But I'll come back to you later and also come back to you on other points on why is the government being bought in?
15:39Because the government has chosen to drop the cases on these reasons.
15:43It is, of course, you know, the courts to decide whether or not they accept the plea.
15:47But, Tahseen, you know, I want to bring you into this conversation because ten years too late, absolutely no justice.
15:53And, you know, contradictory and the irony of it is that today you have a state government that wants to drop a charge on the basis of social harmony.
16:02The sheer fact on why justice needs to be delivered.
16:06Thank you for having me on the show, Preeti. Good evening to my fellow panelists and to your viewers.
16:11Point number one. These are serious charges of murder 302-307 that have been put on the accused.
16:18These cannot simply be dropped like that.
16:20In the Supreme Court judgment of Tahseen Punaola versus Union of India, specifically on mob lynching,
16:25there were guidelines of how investigation would be carried out, how trial would be carried out.
16:30All of these have been violated by the state.
16:33Now, let's see what Anila Singh Ji said.
16:34She says very eruditally that, listen, the facts will speak for themselves.
16:38So what are the facts? She's correct on that.
16:40The facts is the statements that the state speaks about, that the statements have been inconsistent,
16:45were actually given under 164 to the magistrate.
16:49These are statements that are ironclad given to the magistrate.
16:52They haven't changed.
16:53How does the state now interfere and say, oh, the statement given to a magistrate is primal fsi wrong or not wrong?
16:59That is for the court of law to decide.
17:01I have for the first time heard in my life that you cannot murder with iron rods or sticks or bricks or what I view.
17:08So the next time you're going on the road and there's an accident and a mob comes up and kills somebody.
17:14Hey, you know what?
17:14Since you just had iron rods, you didn't murder anybody because you didn't have weapons.
17:19And by the way, that is also the argument for no prior enmity.
17:22So if there's a street accident and then a mob gets and kills somebody, we just have to say nobody killed anybody because there's no prior enmity.
17:30In this particular case, the statement of the family is on record.
17:35And I'd gone to Dazri when this incident had happened, saying that the meat samples have also been tampered with.
17:40That also has not been withdrawn.
17:41For the state to attempt to intervene this way, while the trial is in evidence stage, shows that the state is scared and is trying to protect its own people who have now joined the BJP.
17:52These are the Rana people who have joined the BJP.
17:55It does not go with the vision of the nation.
17:57It is anti-constitutional.
17:58And I will take up this case in the Honourable Supreme Court and the violations of my case, if they try to do this, they will have to face defeat.
18:07All right.
18:08Swati, thank you for joining us.
18:10I want to give the last four minutes to Anila as well as, you know, Tahseen Poonabala.
18:15But Anila Singh, coming back to you, ma'am, you know, your two minutes begin now because you went on to state that why is everyone blaming the BJP government in Uttar Pradesh?
18:22Nobody's quite blaming the Bharatiya Janta Party government, ma'am.
18:25But questions today need to be asked.
18:26At the back of number one, what the reasons your government is giving to withdraw the case against 19 individuals who today stand connected to your own party?
18:37I will hark you back 10 years on.
18:39This is the same case, Anila Singh, where a member of your own political party who was a cabinet minister then took an Indian flag and draped that Indian flag on one of the accused of murdering a clerk.
18:51So there is context to it.
18:52And today, the government, on the pretext, you know, the grounds are so flimsy.
18:57Anyone can see through that.
18:59To protect social harmony, one needs to withdraw the cases.
19:02I would think it would be on the contrary, Anila Singh.
19:04You'd understand that.
19:06Preeti, I will make three, four quick points here.
19:12Number one, I will say that the present government, like you, everybody, like Tahseen and you and one of my co-panelists who is sitting here as an advocate,
19:22they are saying that the government is a complete senator and how come the government can go ahead and request the court to take off all the charges?
19:31We are not saying, I am not saying government is accomplice, even, I don't think Tahseen is saying that.
19:36But the government to do so, it is answerable.
19:39Go ahead, ma'am, make your point.
19:40Swati had said that, okay.
19:42So, the government has only made a request, it is not a verdict.
19:46The final decision rests with the honourable court.
19:50What decision they have to take.
19:51It is not on the executor, but on the judiciary.
19:55So, anyone saying that the government has given clean chit is totally a misleading statement.
20:01Secondly, I just want to know, from the Samajwadi Party government, I would have loved if somebody from Samajwadi Party would have been here.
20:07Ma'am, can I hold your time?
20:09I'd like to hold your time.
20:10And I want to ask you a question.
20:11You said nobody is saying the government has given a clean chit.
20:13How is it that the government has not given a clean chit where the government has put in a petition to drop all charges against the 19 accused?
20:20The government believes they are innocent then.
20:21No, government has not declared anybody innocent here.
20:26Why ask the charges to be dropped?
20:28Allow me, you've given me four minutes.
20:30I think I should be given at least some time to speak myself.
20:34You have asked me that, yes, your government has given a clean chit.
20:37On this, I am saying that the prosecutor is going to place all the facts and the evidences and ultimately judiciary has to take the decision that the evidences are supporting the things which are being told by the prosecutor.
20:52And I need to ask the Samajwadi Party government that why didn't they ensure strong evidences?
20:58Why didn't they secure a single solid forcenic chain?
21:02Why were contradictory statements allowed to enter the record?
21:06Why?
21:07They did it.
21:08Because the earlier investigation itself was casual, politically influenced and it was the hurried one.
21:15And under the current government treaty, I'll say one thing.
21:17Then the law and order is stronger.
21:19Police accountability is higher.
21:20And cases are reviewed on merits and then they are taken to the court, not and the court has to decide.
21:26I don't understand why you're blaming the Samajwadi Party, but you know, there's no time for that.
21:30Tahseen, your two minutes begin now.
21:33Let me just tell Anila Singh Ji, that whatever the statements was, what finally counts as the statement before the magistrate in the court of law, which the family is being consistent with.
21:43Our government can't go back in time and say this is what happened, that's what happened.
21:46What's on record stays.
21:48They are challenging that.
21:49The public prosecutor is acting on orders of the government of Uttar Pradesh.
21:54Therefore, the government of Uttar Pradesh is trying to diffuse this case.
21:59Now, the idea of communal harmony, therefore, to create communal harmony, I think communal harmony would better be created if we don't have a mob that lynches or murders people.
22:08Today, this is a Muslim man who's being murdered.
22:11Tomorrow, what if it's a woman, a third gender, somebody of another religion, another caste?
22:15Is this acceptable?
22:17And then somebody comes and says for communal harmony, it's okay somebody got murdered, let's withdraw the case.
22:22What kind of a reasoning in this?
22:23In law, like in life, one is pregnant or not pregnant.
22:26You can't be half pregnant.
22:27You can't withdraw cases because we have to ensure communal harmony.
22:31To ensure communal harmony, the government has to ensure crime doesn't take place.
22:34And to ensure crime doesn't take place, those who are accused of perpetuating a horrific, barbaric crime should be punished, not be made members of the BJP, and a tricolor, which we drape upon those who have been martyred for India, should not be draped upon those who are involved in allegedly mob lynching.
22:53The fact that rods, the fact that sticks, the fact that bricks are found, the fact that a family is victimized for something that they may or may not have had in their fridge.
23:01Let me go ahead and say, even if they had something wrong in their fridge, does the law allow mobs to, are we allowed to take the law into our hands?
23:08I think the Uttar Pradesh government would be better served.
23:11The people of India would be better served.
23:13If the law of the land prevails, then where there is no justice, there you will not get investments.
23:19Where there is no justice and law, you will not have harmony.
23:22For harmony to prevail, the first law is justice should be delivered.
23:26That was the law Lord Krishna said while revealing the Gita to Arjuna.
23:31You have one minute, Anila Singh, to respond and then I'm going to close the debate.
23:34We're giving you that extra minute, ma'am. Go ahead.
23:37I was waiting for this statement and ultimately Mr. Tahseen Poonawala, he made it.
23:42He made it all about Hindu and Muslim here.
23:45He did not see it from the point of view that anybody who attacked and the person who got attacked are the citizens of Uttar Pradesh.
23:57And law is equal for everybody.
23:59But here, he wants to communalize.
24:01Bharatiya Jinta Party doesn't want to communalize.
24:04Bharatiya Jinta Party says that, okay, whatever the judiciary is going to say, we are going to say fine.
24:08Okay, government is keeping facts in front of the court.
24:12But here, Mr. Poonawala is communalizing. This is what I want to...
24:16Ma'am, I'll hold your time. I'll hold your time.
24:18Allow me to ask you a counter question.
24:20The nature of the crime in itself was communal, ma'am.
24:22You do understand why a clerk was lynched.
24:24You do understand that, right?
24:26He was lynched because he was accused of storing beef.
24:28He was lynched because he was accused of cow slaughter.
24:32That in itself is communal.
24:34So this becomes the reason to get the whole atmosphere communalized?
24:40Ma'am, you are not going to see from the magnifying glass of peace and harmony which should be prevailed in our state?
24:50Ma'am, you know, I think...
24:52Actually, I'm at a loss of words because I would think peace and harmony to prevail would mean deliverance of justice.
24:59Thaisi, in 10 seconds and I'm going into a break.
25:00Yeah, it is the same thing.
25:03Peace and harmony means justice to be given and mobs don't come form mobs and go kill somebody based on any identity,
25:10be it religious, caste or gender.
25:12That's when peace and harmony will prevail.
25:14You know, we're going to leave it at that, but this is a story we're going to keep a keen eye on
25:18because there's lots that goes on where TV debates are concerned.
25:21A lot is debated.
25:22Very few topics of relevance.
25:24Ten years ago, this man was lynched.
25:26Who lynched him?
25:27Today, there is an attempt to exonerate all 19 that were accused in this case.
25:33The matter, of course, lies with the court and the intelligence, wisdom of the court.
25:38The four-member delegation team led by the senior deputy election commissioner, Gyanesh Bharti,
25:46arrived in Kolkata on Tuesday to review and speed up the ongoing special intensive revision of electoral roll of West Bengal.
25:54The entire process has generated enough bad blood between the ruling party and the opposition.
26:01The leader of opposition in Bengal, Subhendu Adhikari, in a press conference,
26:05alleged that the Turanamul Congress is trying to influence and confuse block-level officers through district administrators.
26:13The leader of the opposition in Bengal, Abhantari, Mbogatari, Manoj-Pant,
26:34.
26:35.
26:44.
26:49.
26:51.
26:54.
26:55.
26:57.
27:02.
27:03.
27:04Since the electoral roll reform started in West Bengal, the war of words and allegations
27:14between BJP and Trinamul Congress have been going on constantly.
27:19The Prime Minister's comment hinting how SIR will help BJP win Bengal next year has
27:24only added fire to the fuel.
27:27Ganga Ji, here Bihar has been built to Bengal in Bihar.
27:35Bihar has also made a path of BJP in Bengal in Bihar.
27:45If you don't have a country, you don't have to look back.
27:51You don't have to look back.
27:53All right, so the political face-off continues.
27:57The process of SIR starts in the state of war now.
28:00You can literally say that because West Bengal going up to elections in the next six months
28:05in all eyes on West Bengal as the SIR Special Intensive Roll Revision takes place.
28:10Let's cut across to our panelists this evening.
28:12Joining me, Sanju Verma, spokesperson Bharatiya Janata Party.
28:15Tosifu Rahman, spokesperson TMC.
28:17Shikha Mukherjee, senior journalist.
28:19Shikha Mukherjee, one thought that the last election in Bengal was polarizing.
28:24Then we were mostly completely wrong because what we are looking at right now, you know,
28:29is going to be one of the fiercest face-offs.
28:32And the grounds of that face-off was laid by the Prime Minister in his victory speech of Bihar.
28:38Absolutely.
28:39I mean, the Prime Minister's victory speech was also a declaration of intent of what he was going to do in West Bengal.
28:53Now, having said that, you know, the polarization is now happening on so many levels and in so many ways that it's actually worth listing some of it.
29:06One, there is the SIR, which, you know, the Mamta Banerjee on the one hand, the BJP on the other.
29:12And then there is this polarization of who is an illegal immigrant.
29:17The problem with this illegal immigrant story is that if you look at what, I mean, the Matwas have just called off their hunger strike today.
29:26One section of Matwas were on hunger strike and they've just called it off today.
29:30The point is that they want assurances from the Trinimal Congress that nothing will happen to them through this SIR process.
29:39They will not be disenfranchised.
29:41They will not be stigmatized as illegal immigrants and that their rights will be protected.
29:49Now, if you look at the polarization in that sense, it becomes a kind of fight between one set of voters or one set of people and a different set of people, all of them vying for the same space.
30:09Why?
30:10Because the Matwas are considered to be BJP's stronghold.
30:14The Trinimal is also claiming that this is their stronghold.
30:18And the Matwas themselves are split.
30:20So if you look at the whole of it, there is the SIR, which is divisive.
30:25There is the division between the Hindu, protecting the Hindus from the Muslim invasion.
30:37There are all kinds of numbers that are being tossed about by all kinds of experts in Bengal.
30:44Where, you know, where are these waters, extra waters coming from?
30:48Ma'am, I'll just come back to you.
30:49You know, we're going on the two minute window and I want to bring in Sanju Verma into this conversation.
30:54The beauty of an SIR and an incumbent government, Sanju Verma, is in Bihar, it was the opposition that was saying that you were manipulating the process.
31:04And the latest news that has come in from West Bengal is where the BJP says that the BLAs are being manipulated by the TMC.
31:12You know, Preeti, first and foremost, let's get one thing very clear.
31:17SIR is a constitutional exercise, wide Article 326 of the Constitution and Sudhanshu Dhulia of the Supreme Court has said it in as many words.
31:29The second point I want to make is that, you know, everybody who's been demonizing the SIR, I'll come to the BLAs and BLOs, everybody who's been demonizing the SIR saying that this is BJP's tantra, you know, in order to steal elections.
31:45Let me remind your audience, which is one of the biggest stakeholders in debate such as these.
31:49SIR was held between 1952 and 56, when Nehru was the PM.
31:55It was again held in 1956 under the ages of Nehru.
31:591961 under the ages of Guru.
32:011965 under Lal Bahadur Shastri.
32:041966 under Indira Gandhi.
32:07Between 1983 and 1984, before her death, again under Indira Gandhi.
32:12Rajiv Gandhi, it was held between 1987 and 1989.
32:17Under PV Narasimha Rao between 1993.
32:20Again under PV Narasimha Rao in 1995, 1993.
32:25Under Atal Bihari Vajpayee between 2002 and 2003.
32:29Under Manmohan Singh in states like Uttarakhand and Uttar Pradesh in 2004.
32:34And of course, under the ages of the Modi government in Bihar in 2025.
32:39And now in 12 other states and union territories.
32:43So the second point I'm making is,
32:45SIR is not happening first.
32:48It is happening from 1951,
32:52irrespective of who is in power at the centre.
32:55The third and most important point I want to make is,
32:58that wide article 20 and 21 of representation of People's Act 1950-51.
33:05And registration of electoral rules 1960.
33:08SIR is being the legitimate exercise for the last seven and a half decades.
33:14So please stop crying.
33:16And when I say that, I mean to the opposition.
33:18Stop crying.
33:19Stop doing your Rona Dhona.
33:20Okay.
33:21All right.
33:22The TMC spokesperson now.
33:23You know, Sanju Verma might say that there are accusations of it being a tantra.
33:26Tantra, mantra or shadiantra.
33:28Whichever way you might want to look at it.
33:30You know, Tausifur Rahman.
33:32The fact is, at least what we do have, and maybe the TMC can take heart in that.
33:36The data that we do have right now.
33:38Illegals was something that the SIR was conducted in, in Bihar.
33:43But the number of illegals that were found are either so minute in Bihar that the EC hasn't declared them,
33:50or they weren't any.
33:52Because we don't have any numbers on any illegals found in Bihar at the back of SIR.
33:58Good evening, Preeti.
34:01And, you know, first of all, I want to start like, you know, the Biharis and the people of Bihar will never forget election commission because there was no transparency.
34:09But I would like to start what the Chief Minister of Bengal, Mamata Banerjee said.
34:14As long as I live, the CAA will not be implemented in Bengal.
34:18And why I'm starting with CA?
34:20Because it's a back door of, because this SIR is a back door of NRC and CA.
34:24No one ever will have to leave the state or the country, Preeti.
34:28There will be no detention camps in Bengal either.
34:31We should not harass those people who are already Indians.
34:35Many of these people are the beneficiaries of several development projects in Bengal.
34:39Now, Preeti, I'll explain you something.
34:41Till now, 20 people have either died or attempted suicide due to the fear of SIR and NRC.
34:48The BJP must answer how many more lives will be lost before they stop weaponizing citizenship for the votes.
34:56In North 24 Pargana, when the other lady was talking about the Matwas, in North 24 Pargana, the BJP has turned citizenship into a business.
35:05From the Matwa Mahasanga office in Thakunagar, under the union minister Shantun Thakur and his brother Subrata Thakur, BJP workers were charging Rs. 800 Preeti to submit a fake citizenship forms and issue bogus Hindu identity card.
35:22Over 700 such sham CA cams are running across Bengal, reportedly with full backing from the BJP, top brass in Delhi.
35:30No, it's okay.
35:31Someone will not accept that.
35:33What the BJP calls citizenship assistance.
35:37What is this citizen assistance?
35:39I mean, in a truth, a statewide extortion racket.
35:42This is nothing.
35:43This is an extortion racket coming from the BJP with the help of an election commission.
35:49And they say that ab Ganga Bihar se nikali hai hai, toh Bengal tak jayegi.
35:53Ganga kahli bhi pavitra thi.
35:55Aaj bhi pavitra hai.
35:57Or hamesha sada pavitra rahegi.
35:59BJP ke kaale hato se woh ashut kabhi nahi osaki.
36:02Alright, you know, final comments, two minutes each.
36:04I want to bring in Shikha Mukherji first.
36:06Shikha Mukherji, till now, you had Mamata Banerji, who was gatekeeping at least polarization at the back of Bengali Asmeta.
36:14Do you think SIR could be the key to the lock of that gate?
36:21You know, let's keep the two aside.
36:24One is a process and the other one is an emotion.
36:29That emotion is something that the BJP has unlocked for Mamata Banerji.
36:33By talking about the Bangladeshi language and saying that Bengali is not a language anyway.
36:40So, you know, the language issue, Bengali pride, Bengali cultural pride is something which requires,
36:50BJP needs to fathom what it is.
36:54It has never done so as yet.
36:57I mean, you know, two days ago some minister somewhere says that Raja Ram Mohan Roy was a lackey of the British.
37:04I mean, all of this is becoming a bit sordid.
37:09And if you look at how the SIR process is progressing, the SIR process is kind of stigmatizing people.
37:23It is doing things that will affect the BJP as well as the Trinam World Congress.
37:30If Bengalis, if migrants from across the border who felt that they were Indian citizens,
37:38who had papers to suggest that they were Indian citizens,
37:42are now being questioned and challenged that their documents are not adequate,
37:48then it becomes an issue for everyone.
37:52The BJP as well as the Trinam World Congress.
37:55The BJP has really no business to say that the SIR is all about removing fake or eligible voters,
38:08as people who have been inducted into the voters list by the Trinam World Congress for its own purposes.
38:16There are enough people here who are talking about how there has been this huge jump of three crores or so
38:24in the number of voters between the last few years.
38:27Having said that, is that jump something that can...
38:35It's alright for a civil society person to say it, but for politics...
38:41Fair point. Ma'am, time is up.
38:42I want to bring in Sanju Varma into this conversation.
38:45Sanju Varma, two minutes begins now. You can come in for a counter. Go ahead.
38:49Preeti, nothing scares me more than the two-minute, you know, outline that you give.
38:57This is for the opposition. You know,
39:13This is for the opposition. You know,
39:15The TNC spokesperson spoke about CA, NRC. What have you?
39:30CAA grants citizenship to persecuted minorities from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan.
39:40The NRC is a recipe to identify legal Indian citizens which have nothing to do with religion.
39:49Whereas the Special Intensive Revision, SIR, is an electoral process to update and verify voter lists
39:57which have nothing to do with either religion or citizenship.
40:00So, I hope I have made the distinction between CAA, NRC and SIR completely clear.
40:06Why don't you just leave some data?
40:09People who say SIR is what's wrong.
40:12The Muslim population 20 years back in West Bengal was 1.2 crore.
40:16It is 3.3 crore today as per Kolkata's longest serving mayor of the TNC, Firhad Hakeem.
40:23Which means there's 175% growth in Muslim population in Delhi, 25 odd years.
40:30This is obviously not organic.
40:32Ghuspekhya aey hai hai. Rohingya aey hai hai.
40:35And they have been mollycoddled by Mamatab ji.
40:38Just tell me one thing, Preeti.
40:4020 years back in Murshidabad, the Muslim population was 37%.
40:44Today it's 67%.
40:46In Malda, it was less than 20%.
40:48Today it is 47%.
40:50SIR is also necessary.
40:52Alright, I want to bring in Tawseeful Rehman.
40:55Tawseeful Rehman, at the back of what many are saying, the announcement of SIR,
40:59there was a build-up of alleged illegals wanting to cross over back to Bangladesh on the borders of West Bengal.
41:06This is what the BJP is saying, is what the SIR will set right.
41:11Preeti, I have a simple logic.
41:14The border is always protected by the Home Minister.
41:16Right? Amit Shah.
41:17And I don't know.
41:18In several times, he's a failure.
41:19He's incompetent.
41:20He's not being able to stop anything.
41:22Whether you call about Pulwama, Pehelgaam or Bangladesh borders connected with Barasad, Bengal.
41:27So, I mean, we don't care.
41:28It's alright.
41:29That's his duty.
41:30We don't want to interfere.
41:31If you think, because of SIR, the Bangladeshis are going back, good for us.
41:34Where are we stopping?
41:35We are only concerned about those 12 crore people, 11 crore people staying in Bengal.
41:39And it is our responsibility to check out.
41:41But again, when Madam was talking about mutwas, the BJP is once again trying to deceive the mutwas with false promises.
41:48The so-called CAA camps are there.
41:51So, I want to know whether the CAA and the SIR is running back to back.
41:56I mean, these camps are completely fake and have no legal basis.
41:59I mean, citizenship under the CAA is granted by the Ministry of Home Affairs.
42:04We do believe that.
42:05Not by any local BJP leader or member of a Panchaj Samithi.
42:09These people are giving you $800 and giving you citizenship.
42:12What's going on?
42:14Who's going on?
42:15And Sanju Ji and so many people here are talking about SIR.
42:20Give this a name of voter rectification.
42:22It is true that in 2002, there was a voter rectification.
42:26But what you did with the Biharis, they don't even know why their name has been cut.
42:30And now will you say, tell me one person who has gone to the Supreme Court.
42:38You think they will travel all the way to Patna, Supreme Court, Delhi?
42:45I can understand.
42:46You people are anti-poor.
42:48You people never supported any poor.
42:50You can give freebies and take photos.
42:52That is the Charitra of Darendra Modi.
42:54But that's okay.
42:55But when it's about Bengal, I sell again.
42:58If the SIR is happening under the limitation, it is fine.
43:02But even one legitimate name, if it gets deleted, we are telling you again on national television.
43:10Abhishek Bandhapadiya will march towards Delhi with one lakh people outside.
43:14Okay.
43:15All right.
43:16I'm going to leave it at that.
43:17We've totally run out of time.
43:18So the SIR exercise begins in the state of West Bengal.
43:20What could be the ramifications of that politically in nature?
43:23You keep a keen eye on.
43:24Thank you for all our panelists for joining us.
43:26Goodbye.
43:27Thank you very much.
43:29Bye.
43:30Bye.
43:31Bye.
43:32Bye.
43:33Bye.
43:34Bye.
43:48Bye.
43:51Bye.
43:53Bye.
43:54Bye.
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