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00:00Welcome to ET Vibharat. I am Siddharth and today we have with us Dr. Madhavi Latha,
00:05one of India's leading geotechnical engineers and a professor at Indian
00:09Institute of Science. Namaste ma'am. Namaste Siddharth. You are not known only for one
00:16historic thing but two. One is that you are the first female professor
00:25in civil engineering at Indian Institute of Science and you worked on the
00:29world's highest bridge or railway bridge. What are your thoughts on that and how
00:34do you feel about having done this? Okay the first one what you said I am the
00:41first female faculty in the department of civil engineering IAAC. I think someone
00:46has to come and I have come so that's how it happened but the second thing what
00:51you talked about the world's highest railway bridge and I am one of the
00:55engineers who designed and part of the construction and completion of
00:59this bridge this brings a lot of pride to me I feel I feel great about it.
01:04Coming from Andhra Pradesh normally people turn towards engineering but then what
01:11made you turn towards civil engineering as such because you know we are we have a
01:16lot of stereotypes about it especially about women entering the hard
01:20engineering fields you know so what made you turn towards it what was your what was
01:26a process like especially from at home and later taking those decisions.
01:32Okay to be very honest I never wanted to be an engineer I wanted to be a doctor and taking
01:37engineering was because of situations at home and especially the financial status of my family.
01:45So, they thought that engineering is a better profession than medical profession because we can settle down in
01:52life quickly and we start earning whereas, medical profession needs lot of financial support for
01:57building a clinic or to continuing in this profession for a long time to complete the studies.
02:03So, that is how I entered engineering but once I entered engineering civil engineering was also not my
02:08choice because I got seat in other branches as well.
02:12But since I did not get in electronics civil engineering was my second choice that is how I entered civil engineering.
02:19There are a lot of stereotypes and who will say that women have to go into this field that field,
02:25but personally I do not think any of this kind of things exist that women have to do only these things.
02:31For me I treat myself as equal to any man in the world.
02:35So, I do not think being a woman should decide your career path.
02:40I think it is your passion that should drive you towards a specific profession.
02:45So, civil engineering chose you or you chose civil engineering?
02:48Maybe both.
02:49Maybe both.
02:50I chose civil engineering when civil engineering came in my way.
02:54Again, sort of reiterating my previous question in a slightly different way maybe.
02:58Because there are more barriers for women when it comes to mechanical engineering or civil engineering
03:05which are considered as the hard ones compared to and there is more of physicality involved
03:11in these avenues.
03:14Did you face, what are the barriers that you faced as such or did you actually face any barriers
03:19because of your gender?
03:21No, I did not face any barriers because of my gender.
03:24There is physical work in this profession particularly when you work on field, I do not deny that.
03:31But I think we are capable of handling it when women can go into space and live for months
03:36and years beating all men.
03:39I do not think civil engineering is a big thing that people should be scared about.
03:45I would say that this is like any other profession, but if you are looking for a job inside an office
03:50sitting 9 to 5 in front of your computer, this is not for you.
03:54If you are passionate about nation building, I think this is for you.
03:57You said two interesting things.
03:59One is about nation building and you used the word scary because that is the perception.
04:06Now when it comes to the bridge that you worked on, the China bridge, it has both.
04:11It has a scary element towards it considering its location in the geopolitical context and with
04:18other issues and its altitude and all.
04:22And you are also known for a design as you go approach.
04:28How did this come together?
04:30How was the process like was a design as you go approach needed in this context?
04:35Design as you go approach is needed in any infrastructural project which is like very, very big and takes
04:42long time because things change with time because rocks also change with time.
04:47They undergo process through which their properties would not remain the same over the years.
04:52And also when you are talking about projects which are like built on natural slopes like China
04:57in a bridge, you need to adopt design as you go.
05:02It is not like my approach that we have adopted.
05:06It is the approach adopted in globally in many civil engineering projects, but in rarely.
05:11And this approach was it has come together through the Indian railways and the construction
05:17companies and the designers like me.
05:19So, we all worked on this evolution of the bridge into what it is standing today.
05:25When it comes to evolution and design in engineering, you see things are evolving technologically
05:32we are evolving at a different, at a geometric pace probably today more than ever.
05:37How do you feel sustainability, safety and environmental concerns also have to come into engineering and
05:45design?
05:46See, I am the chair of sustainable technologies of IAAC.
05:48So I definitely know what sustainability means.
05:52Many people said that in Chinab railway bridge construction you have used so much of cement
05:58concrete which is not a sustainable material, but to all of them I would like to tell that
06:03sustainability is not about just the materials, it is about the entire environmental impact
06:09and the life cycle.
06:10For example, the Chinab railway bridge was the only lifeline to the entire Jammu region when
06:17floods happened recently.
06:18All roads were closed and this was the only line through which the government has transported
06:23flood material and flood victims to the upper regions.
06:27And also when millions of tons of apples are getting rotten, this was the only line through
06:32which the government could transport the apples from Anantanag and Madgav districts to Delhi
06:38through apple express trains.
06:41I would call this is sustainability and initially when the project started many people in that
06:47region opposed.
06:48There is something going to happen in this region and our slopes are affected, our hills
06:53are affected, there is going to be kind of civil engineering construction.
06:57But I recently met many of the social influencers in a conference in Goa, where these people have
07:03come and told me that ma'am during this floods we realized why we need this bridge.
07:08We all are so proud of you and we are thankful to you for being a part of this bridge.
07:12So, I can see that keeping people happy without affecting their ecosystem is what sustainability
07:19means I think we achieved through our Chinab Railway Bridge project.
07:22So, its sustainability according to you has more dimensions to it than just a unidimensional
07:27Yes.
07:28Whether it is a material or whether it is an emission or.
07:30Yes, it is there is a river flowing between two hills and we have built this huge bridge,
07:35but we have not disturbed the course of the river or we have not silted the river.
07:39Enough care is taken for all these environmental aspects to keep the terrain as natural as it
07:46was in the beginning.
07:48So, I would say that no rules of sustainability are broken and moreover with time the kind
07:54of benefits it is giving.
07:56The time between Jammu and Srinagar the travel time is reduced by 50 percent which means that
08:02we are saving so much of emission on these roads of Jammu and Kashmir.
08:06That is sustainability.
08:07So, by reducing the travel time, you are cutting down fuel consumption and you are kicking off
08:13a whole ecosystem about it.
08:14Yes.
08:15When you talk about engineering and sustainability and essentially STEM fields, again there is
08:20the whole gender aspect that no matter how hard we try not to bring in our.
08:26In the 21st century, it is more relevant and you have been the recipient of the top 75 women
08:36in STEM in India award.
08:37What is your take on women in STEM from a breaking gender barriers sort of a point of view?
08:45Because there is still the glass ceiling.
08:47You also, you still see a wage gap in certain countries and in certain industries especially
08:53in STEM and there is also, as I said, a glass ceiling where the perception is that women
09:00cannot break it beyond a certain point.
09:02So as somebody who has been involved in a monumental project like this at a very influential level,
09:09what do you have to say about it?
09:10Very relevant point.
09:12I would not say that we do not have gender bias in our system.
09:15There is definitely this barrier and this glass ceiling what you are talking about.
09:19But I would say that the change should come from every point of view, like women also
09:26should feel fearless in pursuing these professional trajectories.
09:31And also the industry has to understand the value of women in these fields.
09:35For example, women can deliver end to end, I have seen many men dropping out in taking
09:41the responsibilities.
09:43And I would definitely not just being a woman, I do not have that bias, but I have seen many
09:48women stay strong, when they are like passionate about something, they go till end to tell you
09:54about that.
09:55I think this will be realized by industry when women can break the barriers and show their
10:00strength.
10:01It should come from both ways, women also have to be fearless and industry also should recognize
10:06the merits of women in these fields.
10:08And then I think the path will be easier.
10:11It is changing definitely changing you can see lot of women CEOs these days, lot of women
10:16in very important fields, you can see me.
10:19So, I think it is, there are few case studies as of now, going forward we will see many.
10:25That's my take.
10:26How do you think it can be, like what can a woman say who is married off at the age of 15,
10:3416 after 10th or enter which is, which happens.
10:37Yes.
10:38What do you think she can do or what, what do you think are pathways in today's India,
10:44in today's.
10:45Yeah, that's a very, very pathetic situation because I have been in a situation where I
10:50would have got married at an age of 13, 14 because I came from a village and a rural setting,
10:56small background and people were, the only aim was like getting the girl married because
11:02that's one responsibility you have to get rid of.
11:05This still is a thing in many villages in India, I am very, very sad about it.
11:10I do not know like how to tell them that be fearless, do this, do that, because they
11:16do not know, they do not have the educational background.
11:19The only way I can see is the government should give them the kind of support or education
11:26that is needed.
11:27There is so much is being done already, but I think this gap is still there.
11:33I have no idea how to break this, you know, even in my village, I see that girls getting
11:40married at a very engaged, whereas boys are sent to different countries for education and
11:44things like that.
11:45For example, now when my life story is published in many newspapers, many parents have written
11:51to me, now I will make my girls study, now I will make them study civil engineering all
11:55that, I think many such life stories have to come into picture where parents are inspired,
12:01seeing that this is how a girl also can be equal to a boy if not more than that.
12:08So, I think that should come from the parents and the system should support and publicize
12:14this that these are the opportunities.
12:16Beyond that, I think I am also like you feeling compassionate about what is happening in villages
12:22and the poor girls who are getting married at a very young age and spending their whole
12:26life in doing this daily chores of helping the family, helping the kids and husband.
12:34So, this sort of a journey earned you a doctorate and then earned you a professorship and then earned
12:44you opportunities where you could get yourself involved in projects like the China Bridge apart from
12:50winning you many awards including the Ramoji Excellence Award.
12:55What are your thoughts on this and what do you have to say to young women who are aspiring
12:59to be scientists or that young girl who looks at a scientist on TV and dreams to be that?
13:05Yeah, I think dreaming big is very important and at the same time you should understand your
13:11limitations.
13:13Everyone cannot do everything.
13:14So, you need to find your corner of the sky where you can fly high.
13:19This is what I believe in your life is not defined when you are born.
13:23For example, when I look at how I was as an young girl and how I am today, I would not
13:28have dreamt about like where I stand today.
13:30I had definitely a dream that I would fly high and I would be a big person.
13:35This dream was always there in heart and there is a passion to achieve the dream.
13:39My path was not defined.
13:40I evolved over the time and I grabbed the opportunities that came in my way I would say.
13:46I was never like say no to thing which I know I am sure that this will bring something to
13:53me personal satisfaction or glory or professional recognition.
13:57I never backed off from that kind of a opportunity.
14:00So, opportunities do come in everyone's life.
14:04So, be fearless when you have an opportunity, try to take this forward about awards, recognitions
14:11they follow.
14:12You do not like if I did not ask anyone to give an award actually, everything just fell
14:17in place because I reached that stage.
14:20And the journey from the young girl to this, I think that was very hard and I did well.
14:25I would think today that all the awards, what I am getting today are like for the whole hard
14:32work not just the Chinab Railway Bridge because I studied in Telugu medium till twelfth class.
14:38So when I joined my engineering, I was not even able to talk freely with people because
14:43I was very, you know, shy and I was, everything is taught in English, it was a big, big difficulty
14:49for me.
14:51But then I decided that I am going to conquer the world.
14:54And then I trained myself in a way that today I can sit in any forum and talk about me.
14:59So I think if I can do it, any girl can do it.
15:03Only thing is their family conditions and the opportunities when they come, they just have
15:08to grab it and they have to be, they have to be consistent.
15:13Never give up, never give up, never settle for anything less than what you deserve.
15:18This is my message to all girls who have come from a smaller background like me.
15:22That's actually a very powerful thing that you said ma'am.
15:24In fact, it made me feel something because you said, never settle for anything less than
15:32what you deserve.
15:34And that viewers was Dr. Madhavi Lata and her journey of grit and determination with consistent
15:43efforts throughout.
15:44This is Siddharth signing off for ETV Bharat.
15:46This is Siddharth signing off for ETV Bharat.
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