- 2 days ago
I missed the initial panel discussion due to transit delays and rushing out (left later than usual), however I did not miss the question and answer session.
The first few minutes are audio-only, the remainder was as soon as the camera was setup and recording started.
The first few minutes are audio-only, the remainder was as soon as the camera was setup and recording started.
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LearningTranscript
00:00I mean, I think
00:30I don't really want to get involved with this.
00:52Oh, but this one, this is in my area.
01:00That is a great point, and in fact, it was, so Sonia, does the City of Toronto have a listing
01:09of all of them as part of the community group?
01:11Yes, not all of them, it's a listing on the back of the Toronto side of the map.
01:16There's a list of the major groups here.
01:18I'd like to see a major opera group in Texas, so you can see some of the lesser number groups
01:22that have been recommended that we do those on the list too.
01:25So this is a very good start, but if you haven't had a chance to pick up a map,
01:29please come back to the table here, and please take a map, and then you can view the list.
01:33And there's also contact information here for the General Cycling and Pedestrian Projects group,
01:39and then I can connect you with other people too.
01:43I'd actually like to invite Sonia up to the stage for our Q&A period.
01:48Sonia is from the Cycling and Pedestrian Projects Unit of the City of Toronto.
01:53The City Unit is responsible for the design and implementation of bikeways, multi-use trails,
02:00missing sidewalks, and various intersection improvement projects in Toronto.
02:04They also promote cycling safety and education on the toronto.ca slash cycling webpage and social media accounts,
02:13and produce the annual Toronto cycling map available today.
02:17So thank you.
02:18And so we're ready for the question and answer period, and I invite you to line up at the mic,
02:27and when it's your turn, you can say your name and who your question is directed to.
02:31So please keep your questions brief so we can try to get through as many as possible. Thank you.
02:36It's okay?
02:42Hi, my name is Jason Flaurda, and I'm right with Morning Glory and a few other groups.
02:48We're working on a couple of different task forces to try to improve some of these issues,
02:54but the group that we're sort of acting on behalf of is the recreational cyclist that's out on the road
02:59at 5.30 in the morning until 8 and, you know, traveling fast and insisting on you wear a helmet.
03:06What advice do you have for us to think about how we address the infrastructure issue?
03:11But it's, you know, it's a different, we're going out and riding 30, 60, or 90, 100k in the morning.
03:17What advice would you have for us on how to start thinking about solving some of those
03:21infrastructure safety problems that, you know, plague us as well?
03:25So one of the things I'll just mention, so for people who don't know, the Morning Glory Cycling Club
03:33is a very large recreational cycling group, right, with, you know, a lot of heavy hitters,
03:41a lot of representation from the business world. I would say that given your group's composition
03:48and volume that you really have an opportunity to start reaching out to the leaders in the
03:56companies that people work for, reaching out to your local representatives, and really saying
04:01this is not okay, right? So for example, I would say that a lot of your members are probably those
04:06that probably may have access to Premier Ford and his people. And so really harnessing that network
04:14to say, this isn't cool. And you're making, you know, we side with these people here,
04:23this is how you can help us. And this is how it will build a vibrant economy, right? So one of the
04:30things we haven't touched on is the fact that bike lanes and getting people biking, it is part of
04:35tourism, it's part of increasing our economy, right? When we talk about how we deliver goods and services
04:41and people, you know, increasingly we're seeing companies like Purolator and UPS invest in cargo
04:48bikes because they discover, like everyone else, the fastest way to get around congested cities is on
04:54micro mobility. So, and then I would, you know, reach out to Cycle Toronto if they need tips or how,
05:01you know, I'm sure some of you know Howard Chang, who is an entrepreneur and business community.
05:07And I believe he may even be a member of the Morning Glories.
05:15If I could, as the FedEx bike courier, every delivery a truck makes, I make six.
05:22I have a question about micro mobility because we're talking about that a lot. It comes up a lot.
05:40And I think it actually goes back to Albert's first experience of imagining the bike lanes on
05:47Bloor Street. And I wonder if we're at a stage where we should be reimagining our infrastructure
05:52altogether, given that I think micro mobility is going to become the most important form of
05:59transportation in urban areas. And just as a quick anecdote, I was in Vancouver and I rode a Lime
06:06scooter, which everyone is very opposed to. And I had a brilliant, brilliant time on that Lime scooter
06:12because they had docking stations. So they had the infrastructure to dock the Lime scooter.
06:18They also had geo-fenced areas. So I wasn't allowed to ride through parks. I wasn't allowed to ride near
06:23schools. I was warned by a voice that I was approaching the sidewalk and I should stay off
06:29the sidewalks. And I thought, this is brilliant. Well, I'm 65 years old and I loved it because I could
06:35get somewhere in Vancouver faster than any other way. And I could get there without being sweaty,
06:39which is one thing, one reason why the e-bikes are popular. And I thought, this is so great for
06:45young, the next generation coming up who can't afford to buy cars. And so I'm thinking micro mobility
06:52is really going to expand as much as we want to keep people active. And I'm a fitness coach,
06:56so that's one of my life goals too. But I wonder if there's any insight from the panel on directions
07:02that cities are taking globally in terms of managing from an infrastructure point of view. And just as a final
07:08comment, this comes back to your question about how do you manage poor behavior in cycle tracks.
07:13And I think a lot of that poor behavior comes from poor infrastructure for micromobility devices.
07:19Like I feel like we need a lane for people who are cycling and we need a lane for micromobility
07:24that's going at a certain speed and intentionality of delivering business goods and things like
07:29that. And then, but then again, we are taking road space away from cars. So I just wonder if there's
07:34any conversation of this like really dramatically changing the infrastructure that we're seeing in urban areas.
07:44To everyone. So one of the things, and that's a great question and it's a great global concern. So
07:51one, cities around the world are grappling with this problem, right? So we tend to think of, oh,
07:57it's a problem here in Toronto. But you know, New York, Paris, every major city. The big difference,
08:05I would say, in the North American landscape is aside from the fact that we've now, we're now
08:11discovering that we don't have enough infrastructure space, something that Europe figured out
08:15ages ago, which has contributed to that culture of micromobility and just active transportation,
08:23right? I mean, I got to meet the new Consul General from the Royal Kingdom of Netherlands
08:29last week. And she represents the way it should be. So she's a, you know, professional bureaucrat.
08:36She bikes everywhere, as you were in the Netherlands, because it's normalized, right? You,
08:40you, you know, she says the biggest thing that surprised her was the fact that how political
08:46biking is, right? She said, I mean, my gosh, people of all political stripes and cultures bike in the
08:53Netherlands. That is not anything that people have a, an issue with. And so I, my, I would posit that
09:02how cities need to grapple is, one, tackling that culture, because we are still behind the times by a
09:08good 60 years, because people aren't, our leaders don't view the bicycle as a legitimate form of
09:16transportation. They may view it as, yeah, okay, I get it. It's, it's for recreation. Um, and I'll,
09:22you know, strap your bike on the back of your car to drive somewhere to then bike. So I, I would say
09:27that that is something that we need to tackle first in order for that to be ruled out. And so we need to
09:33have, like, head offices of FedEx and, and UPS and other businesses really lobby and weigh in to,
09:40like, the Toronto region for trade, you know, about the importance of accommodating that shift.
09:48Because the industry, unfortunately, always has the word with our leaders. And so it needs to come from
09:53these companies. Yeah. Well, that's the fight is about space, right? So, so we've never, uh, we've
10:04known since the seventies that the problem is we have too many cars, right? Because cars need a lot of
10:10space. So that's the fight. It's about space. On the one hand, walk, cycle, transit. And that's,
10:15as community bikeways, that's what we, we sort of are motivating, uh, uh, reason for existing is say,
10:22we want the reallocation of space from cars to walk, cycle, transit. So that's the fight we're in
10:29right now. And what I've said, we're fighting the city of Fred Gardner because we want a different
10:35city. A lot of people want a different city, but it's a big fight. And I think the real danger right
10:40now is that we're being dragged down by the U.S. to sort of, you know, to become a backwater when it
10:46becomes to transportation or fossil fuels or climate action. And that's motivated by Trump. And Ford is
10:53really a Trump disciple, but, but he's sort of repeating these failed, um, approaches that we've,
11:01have been failing since the seventies, that we're going to solve the transportation problem with
11:06more roads and more cars. We know it doesn't work, but that's not stopped people like
11:11Ford or Trump in the U.S. from, from hoping it will this time.
11:17In terms of future proofing for changing micro-mobility, um, I want to say two things.
11:22First is that from what I've seen, recommendations are kind of converging on just making
11:26micro-mobility spaces like a cycle track wide enough to accommodate a variety of speeds. So
11:30to accommodate safe passing, to accommodate, um, like wheeled scooters or things like that.
11:35The second thing is that when, when we build something like a cycle track, whatever we're building,
11:39we're, we're building something that will last for some time, right? What we build is durable.
11:44And so we build our values into the infrastructure now that lasts, that takes us into the future.
11:49So, um, a friend from Copenhagen said something to me that I found very interesting, which is that,
11:54you know, in Copenhagen they have lots of cycle tracks, but by building cycle tracks next to a car lane,
12:00you're also building in the expectation that there will still be cars on that road in the future.
12:04And so I, I do keep in mind that we could be looking at a future where we want to build roads where there
12:10are no cars, right? Or very few cars. And, um, I think that's something we should, we could imagine
12:15together, right? We could imagine spaces that are different even than the, the traditional cycle
12:20track and car lane that we have now. I really want to hear what Sonia thinks.
12:25I can speak about this. I mean, all good points. I agree. Um, and like to build on what Madeline just
12:34said, um, we are, uh, we have updated our, our bikeway standards to, um, make the, um, the standard
12:41cycle track wider. So it's now 2.1 meters for a standard cycle track, which will accommodate like
12:46a cargo bike, um, a large e-bike. So we are keeping that in mind as different types of bike mobility are
12:51emerging in the, in the market. Um, I can speak about this from, uh, an educational perspective
12:56because I was involved in, uh, recent educational campaigns. So if you turn around and look at the
13:00pillar, uh, pillars, two pillars at the back. There's, um, uh, a campaign that's, uh, targeted at
13:06people cycling, um, reminding them of what their rights and responsibilities are. Um, and it's in
13:12response to many of the comments and concerns we received about micro-mobility users who are either
13:17on the sidewalk or not using the, um, right type of vehicle or the permitted type of vehicle in,
13:22um, our bikeways. So, uh, I'm not involved in infrastructure building. I can't really speak
13:29too much about it right now, but, um, it is something that is on our radar and that we are
13:34keeping in mind as we continue to upgrade and build.
13:38And maybe just add this micro-mobility thing. The cat is so far out of the bag. It's not going back
13:44in the bag. We have to just adapt to what's out there. Like, people are using their scooters that
13:48are technically illegal. Make them legal. Like, let's figure this out and make it work with wider
13:54infrastructure so that people can pass each other, things are important. Like, we're, we can't just
13:58keep clinging to 20 years ago. The future is now.
14:06I just want to say something about, you know,
14:09you, before making a position on making scooters legal, that one of the things that is important to
14:17note is that scooter injuries are growing and are important. Like, our, our youth, um, are getting,
14:28going to sick kids more often with, like, traumatic injuries. Um, 50% of the e-scooter injuries
14:35and deaths. They're wearing helmets. 50%. So the challenge with scooters and e-scooters is
14:43that regardless of wearing your helmet, like, a lot of injuries are, are basically people getting
14:48stabbed from the handles. And again, because of a lack of regulation, um, the types of scooters being used
14:56are, are wildly different in weight and speed. And because they're quiet, they are really, they're really
15:03dangerous. And I can understand why the city, and I'm really thankful for the work that they've done,
15:08putting together a micro-ability strategy, as opposed to just focusing on e-scooters. Because,
15:13you know, everybody, yeah, you try Lyme or, you know, they want to try this new thing that's cool,
15:18it's easy, accessible. And another reason that they've grown in popularity in Toronto is because
15:23you can't bring a bloody bike on the GDC. So if you are working or commuting to a place that doesn't
15:30have bike share, um, and you want to help connect to the subway, the scooter is really the only thing
15:37that you can, or a folding bike, that you can bring on the subway. So again, it involves taking a look at
15:43the, the system level that can be changed. Um, and again, when we talk about human behavior,
15:50before we officially legalize something, it really is important to take a look at the, the whole
15:57area. And at the end of the day, bikes, your humble bike is, is legal and, and it's part of the Highway
16:04Traffic Act. Completely, um, inappropriate legislation because it treats people riding a bike the same as
16:12the vehicle on the road, right? And so it wants us to be treated the same way that somebody driving an SUV
16:18is. But we know that that is not equitable, it's not fair, and it's not safe. Which is why you'll often
16:25see, for example, a cyclist do a safe as yield stop, like a stop sign, instead of coming to a complete
16:32stop, or taking the advanced pedestrian signal with the pedestrians, so that they're seeing their up
16:39front. But is it something that we should be, you know, ticketed for? No, the legislation needs to change.
16:46Oh, hey, Vincent Lam, I'm a commuter, I'm also a rider with Morning Glory, and, um, and, and I guess I'm
17:07thinking about my experiences with cycling advocacy, which have very much been as part of the crowd,
17:12and I've been to, um, sadly too many ghost bike, uh, installations, as well as critical mass rides,
17:22and, um, one of my children, Alessandra Lam, has been quite involved with some of these things, so,
17:29or, so they've constantly been kind of getting me up to things, which is great, but I'm just kind of
17:34in there in the crowd. So, from, from that, I, I just have, like, one small suggestion, um, I know
17:41suggestions were not requested, but I'm going to make one, and, uh, and then a question, and the,
17:47the small suggestion that I, that I have for these kinds of mass events is that it would be really
17:54great if there was an explicitly, um, social piece to it, and so as part of our group rides in Morning Glory,
18:03everyone comes for the riding, but stays for the coffee, right, there's always a coffee with every
18:08ride, great way to, to develop relationships and community, um, and for the organizers of these
18:14events, it wouldn't have to cost them anything to say, you know what, after this event, there's a
18:18designated spot where everyone can go for a coffee, and by involving and choosing business owners, it's
18:25also a way to very tangibly demonstrate, we are now bringing you, you know, whatever it is,
18:30a hundred or a hundred and fifty people who are going to buy a fancy coffee, or a beer, or what
18:35have you, right, so, so that's the way to build support in the community, as well as build cross
18:40linkages between people who attend the events, um, and then the, the question I have, which I guess
18:45does relate to cycling clubs, not just Morning Glory, but others, uh, is would, would there be an
18:50interest in sort of explicitly reaching out to the memberships of those clubs for advocacy events,
18:56because I think there are a lot of sympathetic ears, but I think your point is absolutely right,
19:01that there's a lot of people who kind of have a, a right brain, left brain thing, it's like,
19:05oh yeah, you know, I go and I ride my bike, and, um, you know, get in my, my tempo training,
19:12my threshold training, my, my zone two, my zone four, et cetera, and then I go off and do whatever
19:17else, and, and it's kind of like, oh right, there's infrastructure, even though lots of those
19:21people also commute, so, you know, I wonder, I've never really seen a real explicit kind of
19:27reaching out between the advocacy community and the cycling clubs, but I wonder if that's a
19:33potential source of strength. So, just, I'm just going to quickly answer part of that, um,
19:39I believe there has been on certain levels, um, but for example, and one of the things,
19:45I agree with you, so, and advocacy has all sorts of different forms, right, so one of my preferred forms
19:50of advocacy, and why I founded Fan and Friends, um, is really to help build a culture of support,
19:57and bring women and non-traditional cyclists into the fold, right, by creating events that,
20:02they're pure recreational rides that begin in a park, end in a park, and there's always like,
20:08there's arts and crafts for the kids, there's a picnic element, right, so, and again, you don't
20:12have to wear Lycra, you're wearing clothes, it can be joyful, we have music, we have bubbles, um,
20:17that said, and for the, the cycling community, and again, we're all different people,
20:22um, but I started riding with the Friends for Life bike rally, and that's one of the things where I,
20:27I, for the first time, I was shocked for the first training ride, I showed up at Victoria Park
20:32and Danforth, you know, I rode there, or took the subway, and I discovered that my, one of my team
20:38captains who lives, like, a five minute walk from me, drove, right, and I think that was the first
20:44time, like, all of these cyclists, it's like, what do you mean you, like, why, why would you drive here,
20:49like, and, and again, but through talking to people, right, so, people knowing that at the time
20:54of working for Cycle Toronto, I'm the bicycle mayor of Toronto, that advocacy begins by talking to people,
21:00and explaining differences, because on the ride, again, people have certain perceptions,
21:05and their view is, you know, we're biking for the speed, et cetera, and so we're trying to open
21:10that up, um, and showing that there's more than one way to bike, um, for different needs, like,
21:17it may work for you biking on, on Bayview, um, along the traffic lanes, but, you know, I'm not going to
21:23be comfortable doing that. A great suggestion, that good advocacy has a social element to it, we meet
21:30every, uh, couple weeks on, in Etobicoke, we call it coffee on the Kingsway, so the social
21:35aspect is really important. Historically, there's been a division between, sort of,
21:39recreation, sport riding, and, uh, utilitarian riding, because for a long time, people didn't
21:45want to be associated with utilitarian riding, in other words, they'd be happy to say, I'm a sports
21:50cyclist, right, and they'd ride around, but they wouldn't ride to work, because that's different,
21:55that's lower class, so for a long time, and it wasn't based on class, sort of, distinctions,
22:00that's why you don't see a lot of, uh, interaction between, uh, utilitarian riding and sport riding,
22:06you see, uh, some cross overlap now, and it's, you'll see, for a sport rider, on, on the expensive
22:12bike, and then riding to work, right, but for a long time, there was a division between those,
22:17so I, I absolutely say, yeah, I mean, advocacy, for sure, if you're doing it, then that's great,
22:23and you should be doing, I would say, more of it, but do it explicitly, because I know historically,
22:28I mean, you, you're right, right, but, but get involved in the advocacy, it sounds like you are,
22:34and I think, then, that reaching out to existing groups, that's great, as well, so, absolutely.
22:40Um, and I, I just don't know, who do I approach in Morning Glory?
22:44Like, how, how, how do I access that?
22:46Frazier Chapman.
22:47Frazier Chapman?
22:48Okay, because, like, I would warmly invite every member to the World Neighbor Members tomorrow,
22:52because I believe you guys lost plans on top.
22:54Okay, okay.
22:55Yeah.
22:56A lot of these groups have websites, they have contact information, they have insurance,
23:00I mean, they, they, they've invested in their own communities, they're easy to contact.
23:05But I believe there is a coalition of recreational cycling groups that are,
23:09that are doing advocacy, especially around Hyde Park, right, and trying to get this.
23:13I think there's three issues that are being worked on, each instructor is one of them,
23:16and there's two other issues, I forget, like, you might know who they are, but, yeah.
23:20Yeah, it was crazy.
23:22What's going on today?
23:24Sorry.
23:25Next question.
23:25Oh, sorry.
23:29Hi, just, um, some, some words of encouragement, first of all, because, Alison, you mentioned the
23:34Netherlands, and if you do a Google search on what Amsterdam looked like in the 70s,
23:40it's absolutely infested with, with cars, and to get to these utopias, your Copenhagen,
23:48your Amsterdam's, and, and so on, it was driven by advocacy, um, and unfortunately, here we are.
23:56Um, so, so through that, and thank you Bill 212 and Doug Ford, um, I'm recently joined, um,
24:04um, an East End, um, advocacy group, um, we just launched a site, uh, and you're welcome to join
24:11that mailing list, uh, and you can find, uh, our website over there too.
24:16Um, so, we talked a bit about, uh, traffic calming, right, and we lost our, our speed, uh, cameras,
24:28um, we lost, and, and, and Doug Ford, I think, uh, announced a 200 million investment in,
24:35in, now, new safety, as you call it both, you know, bike lanes are traffic calming, right, so,
24:43so we had Bill 212, uh, now there's Bill 60, and there's feedback to that bill that further
24:52encroaches on municipalities, uh, applying their infrastructure, so just a reminder for everyone,
24:59you can get feedback on that, um, um, by November 22nd, which I believe that's Friday,
25:07um, and then, if you'd like to join our, our mailing list, I really appreciate all the feedback,
25:12uh, is there anything more that we can do to, you know, speak out about, about some of these bills,
25:18and the, the legislature, uh, that, uh, is coming out, um, not unfortunately helping us out, but,
25:25uh, deterring all this movement. Yeah, if I can make a quick comment, I mean, sure,
25:29right now, I mean, there's a lot of angst over, you know, Bill 60, and Bill 212, and so on,
25:34I mean, I think as advocates, what we need to do is to say, well, what can we get done, right,
25:39so I gave you one example, we got our first protected bike lane, uh, during raw forcing,
25:44but what can we do, well, for, number one, connections, right, right now, a lot of the cycling
25:49infrastructure is not connected, we can do that partly on side streets through parks, and so on,
25:54get it connected, number two, the trail system, we can start building up the trail system,
25:58that's what we did when Rob Ford was the mayor, right, the trail system, what was built out,
26:03start building those alliances, start working with the opposition parties, right, get these
26:08things into their platform, I've always thought education in schools, that's an obvious one,
26:13right, talk to the opposition parties, so I don't think we should sort of feel,
26:16and I think Sonia told me this, don't be demoralized, right, I mean, think about, I mean,
26:21I think right now, we need to be creative, what are the things we can get done, in spite of a
26:26majority forward government, and he's, you know, he's obviously intent on celebrating a certain way
26:33of life, and a certain, you know, way of getting around, but let's not be discouraged and think,
26:38we're just going to be angry for the next three and a half years, let's figure out what things we can do,
26:42and what things we can do together to make the city safer for walk, cycling, transit,
26:48because that's what we're fighting for. Yeah, I do think that we could have a bigger presence,
26:54both digitally and in person, and again, if you want to join the mailing list, you can check out
27:02the website. Thank you. Next, please.
27:04Hi, I'm Peter, I've been cycling for, geez, 60 years, currently a bit near Danforth,
27:17just one comment for you, my question, I was driving, I admit I was in a car, but I was driving
27:23along Queen Street, and there was a guy on the heat bike ahead of me, and he got his front wheel
27:30pinched in the street car tracks, and we have street cars in Toronto, we'll probably have street
27:37cars in Toronto for a long time, and we'll have tracks that will support them. These heat bikes
27:43are banned or illegal in Toronto, one of the reasons are street car tracks. What happened with this guy,
27:50he pinched his tire, he went head over heels, and I almost drove over him.
27:55So when you're following somebody that's riding an e-bike, an e-scooter, I mean,
28:04sorry about that, e-scooter, they have small wheels, they can go down on tracks, they can go down on
28:09potholes. And vibrations, and cracks and crevices. You have to stay well back of them if you're driving,
28:18because they may go down. Luckily he got up and walked away. My question is, with regard to
28:29situations like the bike lanes along Danforth, at the traffic lights, during busy times when there's
28:36a lot of pedestrians and a lot of cyclists, or people on whatever going down the bike lane,
28:44at the traffic lights, we have cars that want to turn right. And right now they're in conflict with
28:54not only the pedestrians, but also the cyclists. And I was wondering if the city would ever consider
29:03having like a three-phase light system where there would be, the red light would be obviously red,
29:11but the green light would be divided into two phases. One for pedestrians and cyclists only,
29:19and the second portion of the green phase for cars only, where the people are held back,
29:26and the cyclists are held back, and the cars can move forward or left or right as they do. I know the parade
29:37bike intersections that were trialed downtown were an utter failure, but this would be a simpler way to
29:46separate bikes from cars at this critical point of intersections with traffic lights. Would the city ever
29:55consider that, say so? Thank you very much. So we do have this at some intersections. The one I'm
30:06thinking of is Avenue and Davenport, one of them. So it's a phased approach. These cyclists will get a
30:11green light, pedestrians as well, so they'll be able to move forward. And then cars that are vehicles,
30:16motorists that are turning right will have a green light, and then everyone else is stopped. So we do have
30:23that in certain intersections in the city. If you are requesting something along the Danforth, that would
30:28require a more in-depth study. So that would be looked at by our traffic signal operations group.
30:35I would encourage you to email 311, or if you want to email me directly at cycling.toronto.ca,
30:41I can probably put you in touch with somebody or get that escalated a little bit more.
30:47But it is a very good suggestion. And what you've also described, leading pedestrian and leading
30:53bicycle intervals. So another intersection I'm thinking of is at Lakeshore Bay, where people on
31:00bikes and pedestrians are moving at the same time. Eventually, I think that we would like to install
31:06more of these type of signals throughout the city. But this is, it's an excellent suggestion,
31:11and it's not, we've heard this before too. So thank you very much.
31:17I just wanted to add to that, in many parts of the world, that is how it's done kind of by default,
31:21like you would not have a situation where cars and pedestrians have the right to the same space at
31:25the same time. And I would love to see that more here. We also have options like limiting turning
31:32at all. So we don't have to allow cars to turn in every road that they could possibly turn,
31:36right? And that would also reduce some of the conflicts at many side streets and things like
31:40that. So I, yeah, we have options. We could do these things.
31:43I just want to add that, you know, in, like on Glow West, now they've put all those purple to push
31:52the cars out, so they have to turn more slowly, so that's a help. But really, that the bike lanes have
31:58been blamed for so much traffic there, when it's no. At every subway station, hundreds of people are
32:06trying to cross the road. It's the pedestrians, and there's one lane, and so the car can't turn right,
32:12right? And they're holding up the entire line of traffic, because they cannot turn because of
32:19pedestrians, not because of bicycles. Right, and we could have a car circulation plan that we
32:26take into account. Cars don't need to turn.
32:29Any other questions?
32:35Yeah, please.
32:40Hi, my name is Brian. I appreciate you offering this session and sharing your insight and
32:45perspectives. Just curious if any of you could comment in terms of how Toronto compares to other
32:51similar sized cities in terms of cycling infrastructure.
32:56Yeah, well, my wife and I just came back from Montreal. It's amazing. It's like, like here we see a nice
33:02protected bike lane. You feel like celebrating. But in Montreal, it's like every third street. So,
33:08Montreal is, you know, a much smaller city than Toronto. Has doubled our infrastructure. They add 30
33:16kilometers a year of bike lanes, or they have over the last decade, 30 kilometers per year. So, it used to
33:23be, as advocates, we'd say, wow, look at Copenhagen and Amsterdam. But now we just need to say, look at
33:28it in Montreal. And the other thing that they have is fantastic is, is the trail system that leads out of
33:34Montreal. They have what they call, um, Les Routes Vertes. And, uh, it's an amazing system across the
33:41province. Whereas in Toronto, I think we still can't get out of the city on a safe, um, safe route. So,
33:47so we don't need to look at Amsterdam and Copenhagen anymore. Montreal is a great example of what you
33:52can do if you want to. And Toronto's catching up, but we have a bit more to do. Thank you.
34:01Just a couple things. Can you, um, has Montreal done anything unique when it comes to communicating
34:08all of this change? It strikes me that over the last decade, I'm, I ride in the morning, I commute,
34:16I ride in the weekends, I'm a pizza ride. No, the city has grown tremendously. And what I haven't seen
34:24is a lot of messaging about the Highway to Expectation Act, where bikes are covered and acknowledged,
34:32I don't know. Or any other information that might lead to, how do we co-exist on these roads together
34:39as we go through this transition? Um, I know, you know, Eleanor McMahon has been trying to do some,
34:46uh, advocacy work to share the road. Excuse me. Great name. Really, we've asked all these different
34:54stakeholders from pedestrians to, um, cyclists to drivers to come together and very quickly
35:05co-exist. And in my opinion, people don't know what the laws are under the Highway to Expectation Act.
35:12They don't have, they don't understand what some best practices are. Like, you know, I've been adored
35:17three times. Because someone comes out to clean a car and opens up a door. That's against the law
35:24in the Highway to Expectation Act. And when I, you know, said, you can't do that, I can't do what?
35:30So the point is, there's a lack of communication. There's a lack of messaging, there's a lack of
35:36education, which I've heard all of you say today. And there's all of these advocacy groups, and I
35:41applaud your efforts. But where are we asking people as this population grows, new bike lanes
35:49get rolled out, new lights get tested, all that kind of thing. Here's the changes that we're making.
35:56Here are the laws. Here's some best practices on how you can co-exist as we grow together.
36:02Right? It doesn't exist out there. Simply maybe putting something, a couple of bullet points,
36:08on a province, a provincial, or a city website, expecting people who will take the initiative
36:13to go there does not count. So maybe you can speak to what Montreal has done differently.
36:20I go there a lot. They have family there. They have as much angst as they do. They're doing a great job,
36:26but they have as much angst, you know, between the drivers and the pedestrians and then all of this kind of
36:32stuff, right? So that's one of the comments for the day. And the last thing is before,
36:38if you could just elaborate on, where is that initiator, that proposal that's at the province right now
36:46that you referenced a little over around,
36:51it's not as much policing as much as it is licensing potentially of our, you know, our Uber Eats
36:58delivery guys and all of those other, you know, we're not vehicles, but these other,
37:05um, you know, users of the road, commercial users of the road. Can you elaborate on that a little bit
37:11on where that is standing right now? I think let's, let's go back to your first question about how
37:16has Montreal been able to advance? Well, I'm just interested in messaging and communication.
37:21Well, let's start with leadership. So Montreal and Paris are two cities that have really
37:27advanced their cycling infrastructure over the past five years and really the leadership of both
37:33mayors, both women that really set a tone, um, to advance these things, even faced with the usual,
37:42um, backlog. I mean, if you listen to, you know, the same things at city council at Montreal,
37:48you know, you'd get the same kind of people that we hear in Toronto, um, pushing back against
37:53pedestrianizing their streets or adding bike lanes, but the difference is really bad, bad leadership.
37:59And I just wanted to say, I, I learned the rules of the road almost 20 years ago when I took my
38:03driving test at 16, right? And I have not, like changes since then have not been mandated that I
38:08learned, right? I'm still allowed to drive. So I'm not necessarily saying that we should change one,
38:13we should change our licensing system. But in terms of a way to learn updated rules, I don't know that
38:17there is a channel where we are required to learn those changes, right? I would, I would go and say
38:23we should change our licensing system. I'll, I'll say that. Like do airplane pilots take one test
38:29on the road and then never are tested again until they turn fricking 80? No. So why do we let people
38:35in cars get away with not ever updating or demonstrating their competence to have a multi-ton,
38:43extremely dangerous machine that they're operating on a street? So I would love to see more frequently
38:49testing. So, and to test at that point on the changes. So if you like, do you know what it means
38:56when there's a solid double line beside a cycle track? Can you use the cycle track as a turn lane or not?
39:01You can't. Yeah, but we, we have, we have a system in place. We have some laws in place. The Highway and Transportation Act
39:10managed by the Ministry of Transportation, you know, oversees that. They may not be the best or even come closer,
39:18but we have something in place. But I, I, I don't know if there's any recent data on this survey work,
39:23but you know, if you pull drivers and ask them what the responsibility, what the laws are in terms of how they
39:29come and go from their cars. And you ask them cycling clubs in the most parts. And I ask the guys I
39:34ride with all the time, you know, about the laws versus some best practices. Well, we try to promote
39:40the best practices, right? But anyways, if you ask people what the laws are, I, I suspect that
39:48most stakeholders, the majority of the stakeholders, from pedestrians to cyclists and drivers, do not
39:54understand. So we have some, but there's no education is what I'm saying. Right. And I think,
39:59like, the onus is on the operator of the most dangerous machine, in this case, to know those
40:05rules, right? I don't think pedestrians, like pedestrians are often children, right? They don't
40:09need to know the rules. They should just be safe. No one has told me, I've never read, and I take the time
40:15to learn this. Where do I go to find out how I make a right-hand trail over a bike lane? What is my,
40:21what is my bike map? What is my bike map? Yeah, it's on the bike map. But I would say, I mean, just
40:27specifically, number one, and we've mentioned this, to put cycling education in the curriculum.
40:33Because kids would love it. Number two, even if you never ride a bike, you'll understand the rules
40:39and appreciate cyclists. Number three, it would make it more a legitimate form of transportation.
40:45Just a legitimate part of our transportation system. We don't have that now. So the other thing,
40:51specifically your question, you asked about licensing. Well, the city does not have the
40:55authority to regulate, license the food delivery companies. They've asked the province for that
41:01authority. The province has ignored them. Number two, you asked about, I mean, other regulation.
41:07I contacted the Minister of Transportation about where they are with the e-bike regulation. It took them a
41:13month just to answer my query and to say, we're not doing anything right now, or it is sort of up
41:19in the air. But that, that's a big problem. So specifically on that. But cycling education,
41:24I think kids would love it. And, and teachers would love to teach it, I'm sure. And it would increase
41:30legitimacy. And even if you never ride a bike, you'll at least know what the, what the rules are.
41:35And that would be great. I'll leave it.
41:39We've actually reached four o'clock. So this concludes the formal portion of our gathering today.
41:45I'm sorry we didn't get to everything. Okay, one more question.
41:47Well, um, basically I want to shout out a couple of, to Toronto Public Library for holding this, which is great.
41:55Um, and also to Cycle Toronto. Um, I've been a member of Cycle Toronto for years. And I wrote two things.
42:03One is I point out that there are local, Cycle Toronto is, is this organization, CVY, that does policy
42:09work and, you know, gets involved with, with, with the city and with Doug Ford and so on. But there's
42:16also local groups, like in Ward 15, Down Valley West, Down Valley East, Ward 16. There's a local group,
42:22Down Valley, Midtown. So the, and, and their, their role is all advocacy. You know, it's not jolly fun rides.
42:30People like Albert do the fun, the nice fun rides. But, but, uh, Cycle Toronto do the, do the hard stuff.
42:37So the, the other thing about Cycle Toronto is, is that we're really active in, in protecting the bike planes,
42:44the Bloor, the, the, um, young, um, that, that were going to be ripped out. They were going to be ripped out.
42:52They would have been gone by now, except that Cycle Toronto appealed. And, um, you've got to, you know,
42:59got to, uh, thank, uh, Michael, Michael, uh, Longfield. Is this his name?
43:04Yes. Yeah.
43:05Michael Longfield for his advocacy there. And of course, there was money required. There was, um,
43:10fundraising required. But, um, they actually won that, that lost, they won that appeal. And, and it threw
43:17forward off his rocker. You know, oh, what are we going to do? You know, well, he's now appealing it
43:22again, um, at a higher court. And, uh, we'll see. But I think they'll be looking for money again,
43:28right? To carry the thing. And I hope, I'm not sure, maybe, uh, maybe, uh, Albert or Alison know
43:33whether the city is, um, is going to be involved in, uh, in that, uh, further appeal.
43:39Well, um, Ecojustice and Paliero Roland are, are the firms.
43:43Ecojustice, yes.
43:44I used to work at Ecojustice. They're the firms representing Cycle Toronto. So, I mean,
43:48the Ecojustice provides pro bono legal services.
43:52Yeah. Which required money. And, um, yeah.
43:54Well, through Ecojustice.
43:59Anyway, so, this thing isn't just sort of, um, nice to nose off. It, it, it gets pretty critical
44:04when you, when you're in court, right? It's pretty serious. And, and shout out,
44:09tell those organizations for the work that they're doing on a daily, on a daily basis.
44:18So, I'd like to thank our panelists and Sonia and your audience for participating
44:24and contributing to today's discussion. I'd also like to thank the Toronto Public Library staff
44:30that supported me.
44:34Welcome to you to join us at S. Walter Stewart again for our future programs. You can see what
44:39it's scheduled by the, by the door there. We've got the November adult calendar and the December
44:44adult calendar available. And if you're interested, I'd like to make a special plug for another panel
44:49program happening Saturday, November 28th, 29th. Sorry, that's Saturday, November 29th from 2 to 4
44:55again on Coexisting with Coyotes. Uh, lastly, we appreciate your honest feedback to fine-tune our future
45:02programs, including civic life ones and others by having you complete an evaluation form before you
45:07leave today. And as you've heard, there are many approaches to address the concern of safe cycling
45:13in the city and, and to get involved. And I wish we had more time for so many more questions. Um,
45:20but I wish all for you, for you all to have your, uh, let me try this again. I wish for all your
45:28cycling experiences to be safe ones. So thank you very much.
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