What's Inside JeM’s Digital Ter**r Arsenal? | Expert Soumya Awasthi EXCL | Delhi Red Fort Blast - video Dailymotion

Asianet News English

Watch ORF fellow Soumya Awasthi as she unpacks how Jaish-e-Mohammad has evolved its ter**r infrastructure using digital means -- leveraging social media, online gaming, cryptocurrencies, AI, and more. She draws attention to the lethal potential of AI in indoctrination, misinformation, and terror financing amid the backdrop of the Delhi Red Fort blast. Find out about the shifting radicalization process, funding methods, and the urgent need for a cohesive counter-strategy to combat these new-age threats.

Transcript

00:00So with us today is Soumya Vasti. She's a fellow at the Center for Security, Strategy and Technology

00:15at the ORF Think Tank. Her work focuses on counter-terrorism, technology-driven threats

00:20and India's national security. Thank you so much, Soumya, for speaking with AsiaNet News

00:25on the Delhi Red Port blast incident and giving us a perspective on how technology is actually

00:32helping these terrorist organizations to fund themselves to have a greater influence in other

00:40countries as well. So first of all, I want to begin by talking about the shift in radicalization

00:45process. Earlier, we used to hear a lot about how people are getting radicalized in brick and

00:51mortar infrastructure, like madarsas or different other infrastructures. But now it is shifting

00:56more and more on digital platforms. If you can talk about that.

01:02Thank you, Hina, for having me on your show.

01:06Yes, radicalization methods have changed. It has become a little more, you know, expanded

01:13in its methods. Earlier, we used to hear about how madrasas and mosques are only responsible

01:20for radicalization. But now I'm seeing a trend in last few years, maybe five years or six years

01:27when more and more people are getting radicalized through digital space. Now, if I talk about digital

01:34space, there are two broadly two places ways. One is through the, of course, use of social media,

01:40social media. Because we as the youth who is getting radicalized, and otherwise as well,

01:47youth is spending a lot of time on social media. And we go through those in short videos of

01:53politics from YouTube, or we go through Instagram Reels, and TikTok and Snapchat, I'm talking globally.

02:00So yes, these are some of the ways in which we are accessing information. Some of them are biased,

02:06you know, not aware completely about the background, history and story and facts, but they are picking

02:14up a small political issue and creating a story around it. So that has become a little bit of a challenge

02:23that people are listening to them and then also getting influenced ideologically. But that is one way.

02:30Then of course, in social media, there are other means you forward images, videos, doctored videos,

02:37fake voice notes, and you talk about all those ways in which people get attracted to your information.

02:46And then the third way that is slowly looking like a big challenge for India, especially is the

02:52use of online gaming platforms. So I keep talking about it at all platforms that how gaming

03:00online gaming at the moment looks more like a financial scam portal, but it has more to it. It

03:08doesn't have only financial impact, but also people are using it for extremist ideologies, propaganda.

03:18They're using it for communication with the people who are looking like potential recruits.

03:23They are also creating these bots and modified mods, mod games in which people are only playing games,

03:33keeping in mind the conflict scenario in mind. So if jihad activities, they are doing a gun weapon

03:41training on online gaming platforms. A lot of these platforms are also helping people raise funds

03:48for terrorist activities. So these are some of the ways in which radicalization has taken a new shape

03:54in the world.

03:56Now, Samia, coming to funds, which you just mentioned, we all know that Jaisi Muhammad is

04:02being financially backed by Pakistan, but it is also sourcing its funds from diaspora and other people

04:08who actually support that kind of ideology after they are influenced by these training modules.

04:14So if you can talk about the funding of Jaisi Muhammad, how it is happening on a large scale with

04:18legitimate applications.

04:21Yeah, so we all know that the first one in this scheme of games was basically ISKP, which came up

04:29with a QR code on their magazine asking for zakat. So in the name of zakat, people are using these

04:37online platforms to make payments in the name of zakat. And sometimes Havala channel is also used

04:46in donations. So there are these small value wallet transfers, then there are informal remitters,

04:54and then charitable campaigns which happen. So Jaisi Muhammad has been one of the first one in the

05:00South Asian scenario or the Pakistani based terror group, which has been openly asking for donations on

05:08digital wallet. They have used SadaPay and other other platforms for, you know, collection of money.

05:18So because it helps them the plausibility of deniability. So if I am getting money, I can't

05:26say or you know, I will say that I just made a donation to a charitable fund, but I'm not making a

05:32terror funding. So that deniability exists, it makes things easy for people to move forward with terror

05:39financing. Other than the digital wallets, they are also coming up with methods like using dark web for

05:50exchange of, you know, your bank account details and extortion through dark web for the stolen credit

05:58card details. Again, taking you back to a little bit of gaming, online gaming platform. There also

06:05sometimes people are asking for donations with regard to, so they will make a story, a sorry story

06:12about themselves that I have cancer, for example, and I need money for treatment. And this is how the

06:18other player who is a potential recruiter, recruitee can be, you know, can get money out of this,

06:26this press process. The another way in, in which they do is use of drug trafficking and combining

06:34it with cryptocurrencies and digital wallet. So a lot of times the drug becomes a source of earning

06:43rather than just, you know, trafficking, doing drugs for indoctrination purposes. They are using drugs for

06:50selling and earning out of it. And then of course, drugs are illegal substance. So when you are purchasing

06:59something, you need to be discreet. And hence again, cryptocurrencies become easy way to do the

07:05transactions. Of course, most of it is being done digitally in order to evade the scrutiny of FATF.

07:13How can India, along with other partner countries of India, who India has close ties with,

07:19how can these countries come together to actually nab these terror operatives, these OGWs,

07:24these handlers, who are linked with Jaishu Muhammad?

07:27So, of course, there are multiple things that already are in place. And that is why we don't have

07:34legal permission of dealing in cryptocurrencies. That is why India has not legalized cryptocurrency

07:42business. And one of the reasons is because of the anonymity and the deniability that comes with

07:49transactions via crypto. So that is one way. Then second is, all these countries who are allied and

07:57bilateral partners with India, they have from time to time a working group, which exchanges data on how

08:04the transactions are taking place. And that is why when you see a lot of terror groups are busted or the

08:11operations where the kills happen, there also, they are able to get support from the countries

08:18and friendly countries who are sharing their information and data intelligence with us.

08:24Apart from that, there are more strict laws which have come up with KYC procedures. So there,

08:32it's not that it is not happening. The cert team in India, which is the computer emergency response

08:40team, and the I4C team, they are all working on the ways in which cyber crime can be reduced. And

08:50that is why the online gaming bill act was also passed this year. Because a lot of financial crimes

08:57were happening via that, and gaming apps for betting. And then there was all these

09:03chit fund kind of scams, which were running on online. And sometimes we found the hands of the

09:12Chinese in these scams also. So that is why if you look at any act, it doesn't have only one reason

09:20behind it, it has multiple reasons. Now, you must be hearing that Aadhaar card is no more valid

09:26only as your identity proof. It's because on in all the border areas, it has been observed that

09:33people are getting fake Aadhaar cards made by paying sheer 100 rupees or 200 or less than 500 rupees.

09:40So to stop that, and if you have Aadhaar card, you can open a bank account. If you have Aadhaar card,

09:46you can open your digital wallet account. So to stop all these things now slowly government of India is

09:52deciding that Aadhaar card cannot be the only way to identify yourself. So yes, these are the ways in

09:58which we are working with the partner countries as well as within our country. Earlier, we used to see

10:03cross-border terrorism, cross-border indoctrination, but now it is happening homegrown. And that is

10:10becoming an even more bigger challenge for us. People inside of our country are getting radicalized and

10:16then carrying out all of these terror attacks and linkages with the handlers sitting in Turkey,

10:23sitting in Pakistan, Afghanistan. Yeah, so like I said that because Aadhaar card is one

10:30document which was getting fake. So even ChatGPT is helping you make your own Aadhaar card.

10:37And this is where people have used AI to create your Aadhaar cards, fake Aadhaar cards. And similarly,

10:45when you talk about the handlers, even if the terrorists are coming from outside,

10:50and in this case, we know that Pakistan has been sponsoring terrorism in Kashmir and in India.

10:56So the handlers who are presently in India, they are getting a lot of money in return for doing,

11:03supporting them. And they help people get these Aadhaar cards made, the voter ID cards made,

11:09or the PAN card. So that becomes a big challenge. You talked about Turkey, it's very important,

11:15because a lot of people from India go to study in Turkey. And especially from Kashmir and from

11:24southern part of India, it has been found that a lot of people are going and studying in Turkey,

11:29whether it is medical science, or higher education in the humanities. So it is becoming a hub for

11:35education for especially for, you know, Muslims, Muslim community. So that is one of the reasons to

11:46worry about that why they are choosing Turkey, because even in the Red Fort case, it was found that

11:51these suspects had gone to Turkey for education. And one of the suspects also had Chinese medical degree.

12:04Yes. So these countries are sheltering people who are more radicalized and have, you know,

12:12ideologically extreme views. So it becomes easy for them to go there. Because in India,

12:17people cannot exist in a democratic system with extreme ideologies, there can be challenges,

12:25people can suspect you for wrongdoings. So it becomes easy for them to travel to Turkey or to

12:31China to carry out their education. And hence, I would use your platform to recommend that,

12:37why not ban certain countries degree as invalid, even if they want to go and study, but they can't

12:44get a job in India, if they have degree from certain countries like Turkey, in this case, or Bangladesh,

12:51or, you know, like you said, Chinese degree. So I think we have a list where we do list out countries

13:01and the degrees which are not valid from certain places. And we need to add Turkey in that list as

13:06well. Just mentioned creating, you know, some of these people creating Aadhaar cards from ChartGBT,

13:12how much dangerous is AI in today's age? Because now we are seeing social media flooded with AI

13:18generated videos, images, most of them, a majority of them are misleading.

13:23Yeah, AI is a big challenge. And every technology has goods and bads. And so does AI,

13:31because even it is becoming a tool for a lot of misinformation and disinformation campaign,

13:39the information propaganda, information warfare is taking place through the use of AI. If you remember,

13:45going back a little to Opsindoor period, when the operation was on, there was so many bots on Twitter,

13:54which were doing amplification of propaganda. There was a doctored video which was created of

14:00our foreign minister of our Northern Army commander and of Prime Minister Modi, who are quarrelling with

14:07each other. And they are saying that we will not do, you know, basically a sort of rejection to the

14:13idea of fighting against Pakistan. Similarly, a week or so back, our Vice Chief, Deputy Vice Chief,

14:23General Ghai's video also came out, where his audio was doctored. And interestingly, I was sitting in that

14:29conference, where he was speaking, and I know he did not say any of these words. So, you know, that's how AI

14:37is being used for doctoring and fabricating the videos, audios, as well as sometimes you may be getting

14:43these random calls from people that your consignment has been caught on at the airport or somebody will

14:51fake as a police and say your son has been caught for drug peddling. And then they will make you speak

14:59to your son. And that son has a voice like your own son, but it's not actually your son. So, that kind of

15:06deep fake voices are being used. Again, like I said, the propaganda part is playing a major role in

15:15indoctrination of the youth today. And that is why we need to be very vigilant on what kind of content

15:21we are consuming through social media, because AI for the terrorist organization is as scary

15:36as a nuclear weapon, I would say. That, you know, they can do so much with AI that can be equivalent

15:43to a nuclear weapon. When you talk about information warfare, there is, and you have also written about

15:49it, there is an asymmetry between India and Pakistan in terms of information warfare. Do you think that

15:57India lacks this kind of strategic strength to counter narratives right after a major incident

16:06has occurred, and how can we improve on that? I think we don't lack strategic strength at all. We

16:14have that strategic strength. But it's just that we do not use it to the right cause or right way.

16:22We don't use it enough to counter these propagandas. So, you know that we have these different,

16:29different ministries who have a strategic communication departments, but none of them are working in

16:35collusion. The need of the hour is that all these ministries, communication department work together

16:42towards disseminate, you know, towards countering the dissemination of propaganda. And that has to

16:51be a regular process and not be asymmetric. Like everybody's working in their silos, not thinking

16:58that how it can impact. And given the fact that we live in this digital world, nothing can be done in

17:05silos. Everything is transnational, transboundary. So, if a task for MEA is related to foreign affairs,

17:12you can't say that IB or, you know, information broadcasting ministry's role is restricted internally.

17:22It's going outward. So, you have an overlap in the ministries. And hence, we need to have a fusion

17:29cell. That's what I call a fusion cell where all these ministries combine their team, make one strong

17:36team, which is regularly working 24 seven, rather than being in event based and more reactive. Now,

17:42it is time that you become more proactive, more, you know, practical and realist that this is what is more,

17:50you know, more challenging than just a conflict at the border. Like I say that today, if winning a war is,

18:01to win a war, it is important to win your story as well. So, perception management is something which

18:07becomes very important through countering of misinformation.

18:12is

18:33as

What's Inside JeM’s Digital Ter**r Arsenal? | Expert Soumya Awasthi EXCL | Delhi Red Fort Blast

Category

Transcript

Be the first to comment

Recommended