- 21 hours ago
Interview with a Killer - Season 3 Episode 3 -
Wrath – Julius Mullins
Wrath – Julius Mullins
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00:00I looked at my hands and saw all the blood and that was everywhere and blood everywhere yeah
00:08could smell it yeah yeah you could smell it see it on the carpet a grizzly murder tears through
00:16the heart of a small town as a high school football star makes a deadly decision 38 stab
00:22wounds strangulation and the gunshot in that moment did you realize what you'd become I knew
00:31that more likely I was either gonna die or that I was going to prison today Julius Mullins is
00:38confronted like never before about the brutal murder of his ex-girlfriend's mother Manuela
00:44Allen police told you there was evidence of quote excessive rage at the crime scene they asked you
00:51if you were thinking of someone else at the time were you thinking of Melanie enraged by the police
00:57that she was off having sex with other boys no you're sure about that was it really a robbery
01:05turned bad as he has long claimed or was there something much darker at play hidden behind this
01:12young killer's vacant eyes it sounds like an evil game of chess that you're playing with these people's
01:19lives yeah sadly I guess you could say that was this straight-up revenge to punish Melanie for
01:26breaking your heart do you think you might have murdered Manuela to even the score for the heartache
01:34that you suffered
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04:17fateful night and Mullen's true motives. Was it actually a burglary gone wrong, or were there even
04:24darker forces at play? I headed to a prison two hours outside Dallas to find out.
04:36Okay, all right. I want to ask you today to help us understand the boy you were at 18.
04:44That 18-year-old boy who went off the rails, that's why we're here, Julius. Tell me,
04:51why did you want to talk to us today? I figured once your organization reached out that y'all
04:58have questions because everybody who has watched the other interviews that I've done,
05:04they said that it left them with nothing but more questions. Mullins has spoken to media
05:10organizations in the past, but it yielded only superficial answers. Why did you blame Peter?
05:16I have no comment. I wanted to probe beyond what was on the record and behind those vacant eyes.
05:25Before we get into the case, I want to go back. You come from what looks like a loving two-parent
05:32family. Yeah, it was. I watched a video of you at 14 at a birthday party.
05:39Happy birthday to you. You seem surrounded by love. You're smiling. Is that an accurate picture
05:49of your life at that point? Yeah, in certain times, there was certain days that were ups and downs,
05:56kind of like any other family. You struggled in school. You were left back at one point. Nothing
06:02especially unusual about that. You excelled on the football field. Yeah, right. That was something
06:07I really loved doing was sports, not just football. But Mullins says he gave up on football in school
06:14and gave in to juvenile delinquency. It seems that you strayed from that path. Why do you think that was?
06:21I started to get introduced to those things like drugs, running the street, stuff like that.
06:29And when I got more involved with those people, the things I was doing, the things that I was doing
06:36right, it just didn't seem more appealing to me. In his sophomore year of high school, Mullins found
06:41love with a teenage girl who was everything he was not, Melanie Allen. 4.0 grade average, robotics,
06:51sports. I mean, she was really the whole package. And am I right that she was the class valedictorian
06:59in her year? Yeah. Yeah, she was. So was this kind of like opposites attract? Yeah, I'd say that
07:09in the beginning, it was kind of young love. When she agreed to be your girlfriend,
07:16how did that make you feel? I was elated. Yeah, I was elated. I felt like I think any man would,
07:23like the highest guy in the world. Like there was nothing that you couldn't do. You know what I mean?
07:29She brought you home, right, to her family to meet them. And it sounds like the Allens embraced or at
07:36least tolerated you, right? Yeah. Yeah, you could say that. For the first time, Mullins breaks from
07:43his baseline flat affect and surprises me with an awkward grin. But I can't quite tell what's behind
07:50it. Her mother embraced me. Her father was a little bit tougher, as all fathers are. Melanie's mother,
07:58Manuela, was a beloved teacher at Olney High School, where both Julius and Melanie were students.
08:04Everybody says she was a saint. She was. She was the type that when she would walk in,
08:10like you could, you would just feel happiness. You know, you wouldn't feel like, oh, this is another
08:15day. You know, like even when she's just walking through the halls, she just had a smile on her face
08:20and would always give an encouraging word to whoever was around her. And when you started dating her
08:27daughter, did she sort of try and help you? You went to her, you know, as a confidant for advice
08:36sometimes? Yeah, she would give me advice on certain things. And what about Melanie's father, Peter? What
08:43was the vibe with him? It wasn't bad. It was just to show that just don't, don't break my daughter's
08:50heart, basically. But Mullins was the one left heartbroken. At a certain point, she's ready to
08:57move on. Right? Is that fair? There was a kind of falling out between the both of us over a party
09:03that she went to. And that's kind of how we split our separate ways. But right now, big breakups are
09:08always hard. But this one must have been pretty crushing for you. Yeah, it was a, it was a love
09:15point. In hindsight, can you see how much of your identity was at stake in that relationship?
09:22I definitely would. You kind of get a sense of lostness and you kind of don't know what else to
09:27do. You later told police that you were, quote, a to her in the aftermath of the breakup.
09:34Yeah, a little bit, yeah. What were you feeling? Frustration, hurt, anger, confusion, because why
09:43she couldn't tell me herself and I had to find out from her friends, stuff like that.
09:48Rage? There was a lot of anger, frustration going through my head and I was really willing to hurt
09:52whoever did it. Five months before the murder, you sent Manuela Allen a Facebook message saying,
10:00she broke my heart and I just can't take it. Is that how you felt? Like you just couldn't bear it?
10:07Yeah, for a little while. No, at that time, I had a turn to drugs, alcohol, anything to numb the pain.
10:14Mullins was spiraling and taking it out on Melanie and her family.
10:18You say you still loved her after the breakup. Did you really? I did, yeah. For months, Mullins
10:27tracked Melanie's social life online and tried to enlist her friends and family to somehow win her
10:33back, all the while seething about the breakup. By the summer, she started dating other people. By the
10:40way, so were you. Yeah. Right? But I'm sure it was a bitter pill to swallow. Yeah? Is that fair?
10:47I'd say yes, but I mean, it didn't really surprise me. I wasn't really like hurt by it because I kind of
10:54figured that that's really where her mind was in the first place. Here Mullins begins to downplay the
11:00impact of losing Melanie and his fixation on her, maybe to deflect me away from malicious motives.
11:07So I dig in. It does seem like you have ill will towards her. I mean, from some of your messages to
11:16your friends, you called her terrible things. There might be, you might have to freshen my memory on it.
11:22She's a bitch. She's a sadistic bitch. I realize what a hoe she is. I'll slash her tires.
11:29She just needs to hop off my ****. Talking about her gets me **** heated.
11:36There's a possibility I could have said something like that because that's where my head was at the
11:40time. How would you describe that anger? Well, not going away anytime soon, like at that moment.
11:48Building? I wouldn't say it was building. It was just, it was there. It just, it wasn't, there was nowhere
11:54it was going to go. I'm now making my way to the heart of the crime. Mullins wants the murder to seem almost
12:00like an accident, a burglary gone wrong. But he can't make that case if he admits to obsessive rage.
12:08There's a reference in the record to Peter getting upset with your behavior in the aftermath of the
12:15breakup. So much so that he even changed the locks on the house. What was going on that would cause him
12:23so much concern? That, I'm not really sure because I didn't, like I didn't tell their parents, her
12:30parents that we had broken up. We, I just stopped coming and I didn't come over anymore. You seem to be
12:36spiraling. Do you think that was the source of their concern? It turns out that Melanie's dad was
12:44right. Julius Mullins was a serious threat, not only to Melanie, but to the entire Allen family.
12:51All this leads up to July 7th, 2019, right? Julius, in as much detail as you can recall,
12:59tell me what happened that night.
13:13It's the summer of 2019 in Olney, Texas and teenager Julius Mullins is mentally spiraling down
13:20after a breakup with his girlfriend, Melanie Allen.
13:22Things aren't going well for young Julius. You've been kicked out of your house. Your aunt
13:30asks you to leave for breaking curfew three times in a row.
13:36Now homeless, Mullins splits his time between a former classmate's apartment,
13:40the high school gym and committing serious crimes.
13:43Around that time, the end of June, you commit a robbery, right? Of a building owned by the father
13:52of one of the kids that you said hooked up with Melanie. Was that a bit of revenge?
13:58Honestly, no. At the time, I had nowhere to go. So my goal at the moment was to try to see if I can get,
14:08come up on some type of money so I can get my own place to stay. Just so I could get food,
14:16have a bed to sleep in, you know, stuff like that. And the reason why I did that was because I knew that
14:21they had weapons. After getting a taste for felony theft, Mullins sets his sights on the home of his
14:29ex-girlfriend, Melanie Allen, targeting her dad Peter's extensive gun collection.
14:34All this leads up to July 7th, 2019. Had you at that point already decided to break into the Allen's home?
14:44Not at the moment. I mean, it was on my do list because I knew that they had weapons too.
14:50It was on your to-do list? Yeah, it was on my to-do list, but it was...
14:54You have a to-do list of crimes. Julia said, tell me what happened that night.
15:022 a.m., you ride your bike to the Allen home, right?
15:07Okay, so I took my bike around towards the garage window, and I walked in through the garage,
15:17through the bedroom. The Allen's had recently returned from a three-week trip to Europe,
15:23but were back home when Mullins entered. There were at least four people in the home
15:29and cars outside, so you knew they were at home, right? Yeah, yeah. That didn't dissuade you?
15:35No, because they weren't really my focus. What do you mean?
15:40Like, I wasn't there for them. I was just there for the weapon.
15:43Right, but if you're breaking into a home, right, to rob them, according to you,
15:49wouldn't it matter whether people were home or not?
15:53It would, yeah. When I went in, the first thing I did was I checked all the rooms to see who all was
16:00there. Here, Mullins again reveals a calculating and criminal mind, recounting how he prowled inside
16:07the Allen's home before striking. You walked through the house and checked all the rooms?
16:12Yeah, I checked all the rooms, see who all was there. That's how I knew her other brother was upstairs.
16:16Wow. Were you not worried about alerting someone while you're canvassing the house?
16:23Honestly, not really. I just, I've always been a sneaky individual.
16:30Melanie's brother was upstairs playing video games. Her father was asleep on the living room couch,
16:37and her mother, Mullins' mentor, Manduela, was sleeping in the master bedroom.
16:43You're armed?
16:43Uh, no. It wasn't until later on that I was armed.
16:48Really? You're going to break into a home that you know the homeowner is a gun owner,
16:57and you're not armed? So you canvass the house, and then you go back to the bedroom?
17:02Yeah. Why? Because now I know that's where they have, they have a safe, but I needed a key to get
17:08into it. So I figured their keys would be in the bedroom. So that's why I went back to the bedroom,
17:13and I started looking around. But I had opened up the, uh, the nightstand, and that's where I found the
17:20nine millimeter. And at that point, that's when I became armed. I looked around in the closet,
17:28didn't really find anything.
17:29No keys? No.
17:31No. You startled her. She wakes up.
17:33I accidentally bumped something, and then that's when she woke up. That's when I saw that there was
17:39a butterfly knife on the dresser. I kind of panicked. I kind of just went into kind of a dark spot,
17:47grabbed the knife. What do you mean by dark spot?
17:49Like, didn't really. It's kind of, I guess, fear. So this is kind of a moment of truth, right? She,
17:59she wakes up, and now you have to decide, decide what you're going to do.
18:02Yeah, didn't, there wasn't really any time for thinking. I do remember that I grabbed the knife,
18:08and then I, when she got up, I jumped on top of her, and I started stabbing her. I do remember that.
18:14She's struggling? Yeah, a little bit. Pushing. Eventually, at one point, we were both standing,
18:22and I brought her to the ground. After that, that's when I started kind of coming to realizing
18:28what I had just done. Were you just in the red zone at that point?
18:34Kind of. I was just acting at that moment. It was on impulse. I wasn't, there was no thought
18:40going into it, and I just kind of did it, and then afterward, looked at my hands,
18:48and saw all the blood that was everywhere. Blood, blood everywhere? Yeah. You could smell it?
18:54Yeah. Yeah, you could smell it, see it on the carpet. You say you looked at your hands.
19:01In that moment, did you realize what you'd become? Yeah, at that moment, I knew that more than likely,
19:08I was either going to die or that I was going to prison. 38 stab wounds, mostly to the head.
19:16Right. He said, uh, in the police record, she was just panicked at that point.
19:24Yeah, she, uh, it really sounded like she was fighting for breath. I was kind of in my own head,
19:29if I'm being real with you. What do you mean by that, Julie? And now I'm sitting here starting
19:33to think, so all the things that I had literally just done, now I'm processing through what I had
19:38just done, and... And what did you feel, if anything? I just, the things I was thinking of was,
19:45how do I not let her family see what I had just done? Covering it up? Yeah, basically, yeah.
19:51And what's the plan now? You stripped the bedding. Yeah, basically, I took all that off,
19:57uh, wrapped her inside of it to make it a little bit easier so I could drag her and, uh, get rid of
20:05her so that when they woke up, they wouldn't have to see that. Get rid of her. Through the garage?
20:10Yeah. Yeah, I took her through the garage, uh... By yourself? Yeah, by myself. I dragged her out
20:17towards the back. Uh, at this time, that's when I got the car, put it in neutral, pushed it around back by
20:24myself. I had it in the alleyway, waiting, and then I, uh, took her the rest of the way,
20:30brought my bike back there too, put it in the trunk. You put her in the trunk? No, I put my bike in the
20:36trunk. Okay. And then I brought her through the grass in the backyard and then, uh, lifted her and put
20:41her in the, uh, driver's side passenger seat. Was that difficult? It was. She was, uh, she was kind of heavy,
20:50but I did a lot of, uh, power lifting at school. Were you not afraid that somebody in the house would
20:57hear the commotion? I knew that nobody had stirred, really. No, nothing, nobody knew anything. Okay, so now
21:07Manuel is in the car, bike's in the car, you got the car keys. What's the plan now? Now my, uh, main,
21:18main plan is to just take them to the lake. Mullins drove out to a nearby lake and dumped her body in
21:24the brush. By then, it was almost six in the morning. You get on your bike and you flee the scene.
21:30Yeah. Where'd you go? Uh, after that, I went straight to the, uh, uh, high school. The coach was
21:40letting me stay for a little while in the, uh, gym. So I went in there and they had a shower and stuff in
21:46there and trash can, stuff like that. Got rid of my clothes. Uh, cleaned myself up. Did it occur to
21:55you, Julius, in the course of this? Oh my God. I was a troubled teen and now I'm a teenage murderer.
22:05Yeah, it did. Once I started coming to, after she was on the ground in the house, I, uh, like I said,
22:15I started processing all these things and I was, I didn't know what to do, what was going to happen
22:21next. And I started just, I guess, accepting my fate, accepting that I'm more than likely going to die
22:27in here. Still, Mullen's fate wasn't sealed. In fact, for several days after the murder,
22:35he avoided suspicion and even helped cast blame on the victim's own husband and son.
22:41The whole town is now in shock and fear, right? And rumors abound about Peter and Darian being
22:50responsible. You helped spread those rumors, right? Honestly, uh, I did tell the
22:57police. Yeah. Well, the one day after the murder, you messaged your mom on Facebook and told her you
23:05heard her son Darian killed her. You remember that? Yeah. So now you're deflecting, displacing the blame
23:13onto innocent people. Was that okay in your head at the time? Uh, no. I mean,
23:25I knew it was wrong, but yeah, I still did it. Soon you reach out to Melanie and you offer her support,
23:34a shoulder to cry on. Is it possible that you calculated this whole thing, that if she suffered
23:40a catastrophe, like losing her mother, it could provide an opportunity to get Mel back in your life?
23:49Did you murder her mother to try and drive her back into your arms?
23:58All right, no party, I'm done. Don't you have the blood on your hands?
24:02I felt guilty for that. You felt guilty because frankly, you were guilty. Interview with a killer.
24:08New episode next Saturday at eight Eastern and Pacific only on court TV. A former porn actor
24:15caught in a deadly father, son, love triangle. I'm not going to stop fighting to prove my innocence.
24:21The love triangle beheading trial live coverage weekday mornings, eight, seven central on court TV.
24:27After brutally murdering Manuela Allen in the middle of the night, 18 year old Julius
24:40Mullins blamed members of the victim's family for the vicious crime and then settled back into
24:45normal teenage life. Four days after the murder, you're posting on Snapchat, right? And you're
24:52mugging for the camera like you have not a care in the world. How do you account for that?
24:57I was doing drugs and anything to numb the pain. Uh, most of the times, like even in a lot of those
25:04videos, I was more likely high. Meanwhile, one by one, the Allens are brought in and interrogated by police.
25:13You may think that we're looking at you on this deal, but a lot of the stuff we get more information
25:22is so we can put the whole picture together. All the traumatized Allens come under suspicion
25:30because they're in the house. And how could this happen by an intruder without anybody hearing it?
25:40I know the truth. And the truth is, I didn't do it. Well, but you don't know the truth because
25:48you said you weren't awake when it happened. I did not want to lose my life. She was my soulmate.
25:54And still is. Well, it's chilling stuff. You know, they are clearly in fresh shock and grief.
26:03Did you figure that Peter would be in the cop's crosshairs? I did. Yeah. Meanwhile,
26:13Mullins used the guise of consolation to shrewdly reconnect with his ex-girlfriend, Melanie,
26:18the victim's daughter. Soon you reach out to Melanie and you offer her support,
26:26shoulder to cry on. What state did you find her in? Well, when we agreed to meet,
26:35she, I could tell she didn't trust me. She had went to a public place and we were in the car together
26:42and she had a knife beside her. Melanie wasn't fooled. Within the first 48 hours of the murder,
26:48she armed herself with a weapon and went to meet Mullins. She was already suspicious of you. Yeah.
26:55I remember asking her what the knife was for. And she says, well, I think it's a good idea to carry it
27:01on me at all times. At one point, Melanie directly asked you if you killed her mother. I told her no.
27:08She texted me and was like, was it you? I told her, Melanie, I still love you. I would never do something
27:18like that to you. Why did Melanie suspect that you were responsible for murdering her mother?
27:26I'd say because at that time I was getting myself involved with people who weren't really focused on
27:35caring about another person. Could it have something to do with the several months worth of
27:44messages that you were saying to her, to her friends, to her mother? Profane threats?
27:52I guess so, yeah. I mean, her father was concerned enough to change the locks.
27:57It sounds like the Allens were afraid of you. Was Melanie afraid of you? Not that I know of, no.
28:04At least before. So now you've secretly taken her mother's life
28:11and you heroically step in to console her. I still did care about her, like I said, but
28:19I still honestly did want to bring her some kind of consolation, if that makes sense. It doesn't make
28:26sense because you're the one that inflict, that inflicted the harm. Yeah, I know. So you can't be
28:32the person to console her. I understand that now. Is it possible that you calculated this whole thing,
28:38that if she suffered a catastrophe, like losing her mother, it could provide an opportunity to get Mel
28:46back in your life? No. I didn't plan on doing none of that. I didn't try to do that just so I can gain
28:55her attention or anything. So that's kind of what happened. It is. It is what happened. Yeah. Listen
29:01to this exchange with the Texas Ranger. She was sending me nasty texts and this and that, but then
29:10turned around and ate her just hanging out. So she's there. It's going to be a bar. Yeah.
29:16It's not getting close to it. Yeah. But maybe I've gotten closer in it since then, right?
29:22Yeah. At first it was ugly stuff and then now it's... We're doing good. We're doing good.
29:32Did you murder her mother to try and drive her back into your arms? No.
29:38You were actually gratified that the murder brought her back into your life though, right?
29:46Yes, I was glad. I guess you could say that she was talking to me. Soon after meeting Mullins,
29:54Melanie tipped off police about her troubled ex. When police focused on him,
29:59a truer picture of the crime came into view. Video surveillance showed him riding his bike away
30:05from the lake where her body was found. A footprint next to the body matched Mullins' sock
30:11and his DNA was found inside the Allens' home.
30:14We know your bicycle's out there. After four hours of intense police questioning, Mullins cracked.
30:23It killed her face in love.
30:28Then adding insult to injury for the Allen family, Mullins told police the victim's husband,
30:33Peter was the mastermind behind the murder.
30:36Just a little person. Just Peter?
30:41Okay. How did Peter find you to get you involved?
30:45Even your confession is accompanied by the vicious lie that Peter Allen put you up to it.
30:56Even when you're telling the truth, you're lying. You've murdered one of Melanie's parents and now you're
31:03trying to get the other one, right, to take the fall for that murder.
31:13Yeah, I didn't really at that moment realize that. That wasn't really crossing my mind.
31:17But is that evil, Julius, in your mind now?
31:22Yeah, I'd say that is sadistic.
31:26Despite all the evidence of rage, Mullins is sticking to his story that his only motive was theft.
31:33It sounds to me like Mullins is trying to soften the severity of his actions
31:37by claiming the murder was unplanned and unintended. But I don't buy it.
31:43Now, you claimed this was a robbery gone wrong, right? But that doesn't make sense to me.
31:51You knew Peter Allen had a huge gun collection, right? You also knew that he kept his guns in safes,
31:57in four safes, right? And you really had no way to get inside those safes. Why would anyone break into
32:05a house unarmed that is owned by a man with many, many guns, right, when he and his family are there?
32:20Also, Mel and her family had just been away in Germany for three weeks. If it was a robbery,
32:25wouldn't you do it when they were away?
32:28I mean, honestly, I didn't really ask those questions.
32:32You could have backed out of this whole caper when Manuela woke up, right? He would have had a lot
32:40of explaining to do, but it would have been better for all concerned than committing a murder to cover
32:49a lesser crime. There has to be something else at play here, Julius. Do you accept that?
32:58I'd say no. I'd say it was just something that was upon impulse. Like I said, I thought that
33:05it would be a good idea to go and just get the weapons so I could sell them and make money.
33:12Mullins insists he was only looking for a quick payday, but this murder looks more like payback.
33:18It sounds more like an evil game of chess that you're playing with these people's lives.
33:24Yeah, sadly, I guess you could say that. Was this straight up revenge?
33:39The vicious murder of Manuela Allen didn't seem like a burglary gone wrong as this killer is claiming.
33:44It looked to me much more like a crime of wrath. The violence of the attack indicates that it was
33:52deeply personal. 38 stab wounds, strangulation, and a gunshot.
33:59Was this a crime of passion to punish these people and make them suffer?
34:06No. Do you think you might have murdered Manuela to even the score for the heartache that you suffered?
34:16I'd say no. Really? Because that's what it sounds like when you read the record in its entirety.
34:22That wasn't my thoughts.
34:27To me, Mullins seems emotionally flatlined, a stone-faced wall of denial about his motives.
34:34But former army interrogator Greg Hartley, an expert in nonverbal cues, co-host of the popular web series
34:44The Behavior Panel, sees a nervous man who's hiding something.
34:48What I'm trying to do is to figure out whether their mouth is saying what their mind is thinking.
34:57He screams emotion. You just got to be able to see it.
35:03Look at the finger. Here's a beautiful example.
35:06This guy is so braced. If he comes in, he's prepared. He's locked down.
35:10He has his feet braced under the chair, I guarantee you.
35:12He is feeling emotion about the interview, and he's trying to contain so he doesn't explode.
35:17But when he's pressed pretty hard, you see those two fingers move up against the phone.
35:21How are you?
35:22These are adapters. Adapters are ways we release nervous energy.
35:26Hartley flags two momentary breaks from Mullins' flat bass line
35:30that reveal a surprising emotion for a killer who says he's coming clean.
35:35Joy.
35:35She brought you home, right, to her family to meet them.
35:40And it sounds like the Allens embraced or at least tolerated you, right?
35:46Yeah. Yeah, you could say that.
35:48Which one is more accurate?
35:50Her mother embraced me. Her father was a little bit tougher, as all fathers are.
35:58If you want to know who this guy really is, the only time he is amused,
36:01the only time he's happy is around these bad boy comments. Look at it.
36:05Yeah. Yeah, you could say that.
36:08When I remind Mullins how he used to trash his ex-girlfriend Melanie,
36:12Hartley says pleasure leaks out of his stony mug again.
36:16She's a bitch. She's a sadistic bitch.
36:22That's contained pleasure, is all it is.
36:25For Hartley, our interview reveals that Mullins is feeling something,
36:29but it's not sympathy for his victims.
36:32Shame is always present.
36:35That is always present. I think about that a lot.
36:40Uh, disappointment.
36:42He's showing emotion, but I don't think it's sorrow.
36:46Sorrow has a very distinct look.
36:48The center of your brow tips rise and you show sorrow.
36:53There's no sorrow in his face. He doesn't feel it.
36:55He doesn't even try to pretend to feel their pain. I don't think he feels any remorse.
36:59I think he was angry about his relationship with the young woman.
37:03And in our interview, Mullins is about to prove Hartley's point.
37:08Julius, tell me the truth. Did you love Melanie or did you hate her?
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37:32All right, no party, I'm done.
37:34Don't you have the blood on your hands?
37:36I felt guilty for that.
37:38You felt guilty because, frankly, you were guilty.
37:41Interview with a killer.
37:42New episode next Saturday at 8 Eastern and Pacific.
37:46Only on Court TV.
37:53In 2019, Julius Mullins was a broken-hearted teenager.
37:57When he stabbed, strangled, and shot his ex-girlfriend's mother dead.
38:00He claims his only motive was robbery, but the crime looks a lot more like one of rage.
38:07And I'm calling him out on it.
38:10Was this straight-up revenge?
38:13To punish Melanie and Peter Allen, maybe, for breaking your heart by violently taking away the person closest to them?
38:20No.
38:21No.
38:21I felt like that the only revenge that I would be given was to break into their house and steal their weapons.
38:29And sleeping with her best friend like I did.
38:31You're saying that you slept with her best friend to get back at her.
38:36You robbed her house to get back at her.
38:39So doesn't that mean that revenge was the driving force behind your actions?
38:44Yes, I do. I do admit that. But it wasn't planned to kill her mother.
38:50At that point, Julius, tell me the truth. Did you love Melanie or did you hate her?
38:56I did love her, still. But once she was with those guys, it wasn't the same, you know?
39:02But your actions suggest hate. You've condemned her to a life of torment.
39:12She brought you into that family. Can you imagine what it's like for her every day to blame herself for bringing into the family the man that would viciously murder her mother?
39:30I can't.
39:31I'm struck by your flat affect, almost like you're looking through me, almost like a nine-mile stare.
39:41That's what the viewers are going to see.
39:44And of course, they're going to feel what I'm feeling, which is this is a man who's not feeling the depth of the harm he's done.
39:54I can understand that.
39:57I don't understand how you can sit here for an hour, hour and a half so coldly, Julius.
40:11How can we understand that?
40:13To let emotion go is to be uncontrolled, which I'm not going to do.
40:20Now, I understand that the things that I have done in my past were screwed up, messed up, very dark and sadistic.
40:28But I've worked through those things, and they don't.
40:33It bothers me, yes.
40:34Bothers you?
40:36It's something that I have to live with.
40:39To live with his crimes, Mullins has turned to God and says he's now a practicing Christian.
40:44Are you familiar with the sin of wrath?
40:50Defined as an intense and uncontrolled anger, often accompanied by a desire for vengeance.
40:57Distinguished from ordinary anger by its lack of reason and balance, wrath can manifest as hatred, resentment, and a desire to inflict harm, violence, even bloodthirstiness.
41:16Wasn't this a crime of wrath, Julius?
41:21I would say, yeah.
41:22And your wrath sentenced Melanie to a living hell.
41:28Do you agree with that?
41:30I agree.
41:31You told our booking producer that you're no longer a killer, and that you would terminate this interview if we called you that.
41:42Do you remember that?
41:43Yeah, I do.
41:44Here you are, responsible for the lifelong torment of an entire family.
41:50And you're quibbling over being labeled a killer?
41:55Isn't that selfish of you?
41:57I'd say it wasn't selfish.
42:01But I would say that it is not right to label by someone by what they were instead of what they are.
42:10Even if your God forgives you, you'll always and forever be a murderer, Julius.
42:19Right?
42:20Yep.
42:22Mullins never terminated the interview, but he did end it with more self-pity than sympathy for his victims.
42:30You have hope?
42:31I do.
42:32Even though you've deprived that family of it, you're better off than they are on that level, right?
42:42And on so many levels, you're fortunate compared to them.
42:46I'd say less.
42:50They have a lot more than I have.
42:52The only thing I have is something to look forward to, and they have something to think about because they lost it.
43:03You think you're less fortunate than they are?
43:07I do.
43:10Yes, I took their mother out of their lives, but they have the ability just like you, and they can do whatever they want to do.
43:19Wow.
43:20That is a remarkable lack of empathy, Julius.
43:23I think they have more opportunities and resources that are available to help them, to help them get through what I did, how I destroyed their family.
43:43Did you read the victim impact statements that were submitted to the court?
43:48I don't think I did.
43:49When Mullins was sentenced, Manuela Allen's husband and daughter shared their eternal grief with the court.
43:57Their heartbreaking words seemingly lost on this young killer, even now.
44:04Before my mother was murdered, I had a happy family.
44:08Now I have a shell of my former home, and our family has been destroyed.
44:15My life is a living nightmare, and I will never be able to escape.
44:20Before God, you know...
44:20We can escape.
44:20It is the end of the park.
44:21We can escape.
44:22Yes, I will love you, and I will never be able to escape as a human being.
44:28Yeah.
44:35You
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