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03:48470 kişiler, co-patients ve medyacılım tarafından dağılıyor.
03:58All of them have been completely assassinated and killed.
04:03We saw large numbers of dead people, as well as injured people and those with amputated limbs.
04:10If you went to the hospital, you'd be shocked.
04:13People are brought to the hospital in groups of 50, 60 or 70 injured at once.
04:18We arrived in Al-Fashir and found the city had fallen.
04:23And those who had goods with them were killed.
04:26About eight were killed right next to me.
04:28The crimes of the rebel is genocide, crime of war and war, violation.
04:36Everything you can imagine and something you cannot imagine.
04:41And all violation which considered in the national, international law as a crime of war.
04:49The evidence of all these atrocities inside and around Al-Fashir is actually provided by the RSF militants themselves.
04:59They have been sharing gruesome videos online, reportedly showing summary executions of mostly male civilians and ex-combatants,
05:07celebrating over dead bodies and taunting and abusing people.
05:11The International Organization for Migration, the IOM, estimates that at least 62,000 people fled Al-Fashir and its surrounding area.
05:20But aid groups also say the road out of Al-Fashir towards northern Darfur has become a death road,
05:26with anyone on it at risk of abuses by the RSF and starvation from lack of aid.
05:32The international outrage that ensued from these reports and the RSF footage
05:36prompted a response by RSF leader Mohamed Hamdan Dagalow, known as Hametti.
05:41Hametti admitted that, quote, violations had occurred by his forces in Al-Fashir, claiming that investigation committees had been formed.
06:05But many human rights and aid organizations, such as the Sudan Doctors Network, describe the situation as a true genocide,
06:12linking the RSF crimes in Al-Fashir to the systematic killing of 300,000 civilians in Darfur between 2003 to 2008.
06:22TRT Arabi executive producer Mohamed Al-Fashir takes us back to that time
06:27when the Sudanese government sent a foreign militia group to Darfur to quell a growing rebellion.
06:32Historically, the Sudanese army, before even independence of the Sudan, when there was Britain in Sudan,
06:41they used to use militia if there is any domestic problems.
06:48So in 2003, the Sudanese government made a small group from these Arab tribes,
06:56mainly from Hametti group, the leader of RSF now.
07:02And these people, they tried to control the rebellion movements here in Darfur at that time.
07:12This force was very limited, and it was under the control of the Sudanese army.
07:21But things soon spiraled out of control as this militia grew more powerful and more violent against the revolution.
07:28Back then, this militia, armed and supported by the Sudanese government, was known as the Janjaweed.
07:34Janjaweed, it is not an Arabic word.
07:36These so-called ghosts were known for carrying out widespread atrocities in the region, including killings and rapes of civilians.
08:03And here's the thing.
08:05They are the same group responsible for the current atrocities.
08:09The RSF formed under ousted President Omar al-Bashir.
08:13Unfortunately, after 2019, after al-Bashir regime went away,
08:22the new government under its umbrella, the RSF enlarged and it numbers, it reached more than 120,000 fighters.
08:37So it's a very huge number.
08:39Today, Darfur makes up about one-fifth of Sudan's territory.
08:43But most of the country's 50 million people live in army-held areas.
08:47The RSF continues to gain traction.
08:50It now controls all five states in Darfur,
08:52while the army controls most areas of the remaining 13 states in the rest of Sudan, including the capital Khartoum.
08:59But there's serious concern that the country could face a de facto partition,
09:03or that the conflict could spread further.
09:05However, we asked Dr. El-Naim, what can we expect next if things keep continuing at this pace?
09:11I'm not afraid of the extension of these rebels to other states of Sudan, for many reasons.
09:21Firstly, the government now and the armed forces are supported by the people and by all.
09:29They are prepared themselves properly to attack them by the airplane.
09:37Secondly, the dialogue is going now during among the four committees and America.
09:46They want also to alleviate the situation by saying that we are going towards peace through dialogue.
09:54So they can also do something towards this in order not to be extended in other area.
10:01Certainly, there is an interior conflict between these rebels through tribes, through groups,
10:11and they are now a battle.
10:14There is a battle which is other.
10:17This also will do a negative aspect for the rebel to extend their attack towards other states.
10:25So I can conclude that in Sudan, government and people are not afraid from the extension of this.
10:33And the government do a very high effort to stop them, but to liberate the Darfur region.
10:40And fashion or the region of Darfur, it is economic, depends on many things.
10:46The exploitation of the minerals, of the agriculture, of the agriculture, of the livestock, all of these things are extended to many states in the country.
10:59Then it cannot be an independent region or with no regard to any other things.
11:07The armed forces of Darfur itself, they are not declared any time the separation of Darfur region from Sudan.
11:17Because they know well the economics of Darfur depends on the other states of Sudan for many reasons.
11:28So I'm not afraid of this.
11:29I am also want to add that there is a movement, armed movement from Darfur itself, about 11, 12.
11:40All of these, they are against now the rebel for occupying Darfur region.
11:48So they are also compact through their tribes by side and through their armed forces by other side
11:56to stop them and not to go far from this region.
12:02Okay, so we've looked at the situation inside Sudan.
12:05Now we turn to its place in the global context.
12:08What is Sudan's current place in the world?
12:11Sudan has a country which has a very good potential.
12:15And then it has many to give to others.
12:19And it has many to take from others.
12:22And the international relation is based now on the interest.
12:29It is not based on any other things.
12:33Interest, the common interest, can also push the situation of Sudan towards the world.
12:41What I can say in this point is the Sudan want from the international community to put an exercise.
12:51It is laws.
12:53The laws which are approved by the Security Council must be implemented on the case of Sudan.
13:01genocide, the crime of war, the crime of war, violation, killing, assassinated, all these are crimes.
13:13Just we want to implement these laws from the international community and not any other.
13:21Sudan has more to give.
13:22And this country also have more to do to protect, to protect the Sudan and also the African countries from this war,
13:33which can be extended to many other countries.
13:37Also, we have a call for the African Union, which till now frees the membership of Sudan,
13:46in spite of all things done by Sudan.
13:48The African Union have a council of security and peace.
13:55This war can be extended to all Africa and threaten the African country.
14:04Then the African Union will be a passive to do anything when this war has been extended.
14:12On November 6th, the RSF said it had agreed to a humanitarian truce that was proposed by U.S.-led mediator group, the Quad.
14:20The group includes Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
14:23But many observers argue that the conflict in Sudan is not a civil war, but a proxy war influenced by external powers.
14:31So, if outside powers are playing a role in fueling the war, should they also take part in building peace and stability?
14:39I think the response till now of the more countries and of the international community towards the problem of Sudan is very weak.
14:53And we need more support.
14:55Support based on evidence.
14:57Now the government in poor Sudan exerts a very high effort, firstly, to secure the necessities and the need of the Sudanese people who are now refugees and displaced inside the country and outside,
15:14and also to support the armed forces to liberate all the territory of Sudan and also to find its way in the international community and international bodies and organization to cast lights on these crimes.
15:33Now, the deputy of Sudan, the United Nations, have presented yesterday a very good report.
15:43And he has put the points on letters directly, accused all the countries who supported these rebels and declared the situation of the government of Sudan that she could not accept the conditions presented by the four committees by America and Emirates.
16:06So, the situation in poor Sudan and in the government is very clear to all the world and just we need the support from the whole world and the international community.
16:21This current conflict dates back to April 15, 2023, but it feels like only recently more and more media attention is being brought to what's happening in Sudan.
16:31Why were people not speaking about what was happening in Sudan more when it was first happening and throughout this period?
16:37I think the policy of the international media, Arab media, African media, European media, international media, United States media,
16:49They did not want to focus on the crime happening in Sudan because they want this project to be completed completely and Sudan will be dominated completely by foreign forces.
17:04Mohamed echoes the sentiment that the world ignored the suffering of Sudanese and confirms that the horrific acts now gaining attention are part of a long-established brutal pattern.
17:14By the way, what we are seeing now, these terrible videos from Al-Fashir, it is not new at all.
17:23It is a very old practices of this group, RSF, since the war broke in 2023.
17:31That is why more than 13 million Sudanese fed out from their houses and displaced and being refugees out in Sudan in countries like Egypt, most of the Sudanese there.
17:46Why they escaped?
17:48Because there was killing, there was rape, even in Khartoum town, even in Al-Jazeera town.
17:57And these very terrible and horrible videos, we have seen it.
18:05In Wadan Noura, it's a small village in Al-Jazeera region.
18:11They killed more than 200 people in one night.
18:17And in any place, RSF controlled or captured, it's looted the houses, it killed people.
18:29But at that time, the world didn't want to see this.
18:34But there is a lot of reports that have been presented to the Human Rights Commissioner in the United Nations.
18:43But nobody wants to see this.
18:45Why? This is a big question.
18:48Are they waiting for the RSF to finish the mission?
18:52Is there any project in Sudan for demographic change?
18:57And now, after Khartoum, the capital, has been returned by the Sudanese army,
19:04it is very difficult for the Sudanese people to go back.
19:08Why? Because everything has been destroyed.
19:10There is no water, there is no electricity, and the houses of the people has been looted.
19:18And even those who are trying to return back, they couldn't, and they're facing a lot of problems.
19:25What Mohamed describes is the physical destruction Sudanese civilians have endured.
19:29Homes looted, towns razed, millions displaced.
19:33But beyond the loss of life and livelihood, the war has also deeply shaken a sense of identity,
19:39especially among the country's youth.
19:41For many young Sudanese, this conflict is not about territory or politics.
19:45It's about the very existence and future of their nation, as Dr. N. Naim explains.
19:51How is young Sudanese viewing what's happening in their country?
19:55Nowadays, they discover that this attack is an attack from outside against the identity of Sudan.
20:06It is presence, and not it is the war against the armed forces or against that political party or other.
20:16Because now the Sudanese have been displaced, refugees, and they lose even their studies at the university
20:30because of this very bad war.
20:33So now our lectures, our lessons to them, this attack is not for a political party or for a government or for the armed forces.
20:47It is for the Sudan as a country.
20:50The rebels who are supported from all these countries, from more than 17 African countries,
20:59and those mercenaries from Colombia, from Yemen, from many other countries,
21:04they have come to annihilate Sudan from the international map, of the map of Africa.
21:12So they have a very good awareness that this war is against them, against their peasants.
21:20And now they are supporting the armed forces.
21:23The last word which I want to share is a call to international media, to international community,
21:32to look to what happened in Sudan as crime against human rights, against humanity, genocide, war, violation.
21:46It is not a matter of war between two armed forces.
21:50It is a rebel against a legitimate government supported by the people.
21:58Then my call to the international media to focus on this crime.
22:04My call to the international community is to look to this crime as crime of humanity,
22:11to classify the rebel as a terrorist organization, to punish them,
22:18to put all things which can protect the civilians in Sudan and in all our country.
22:26The message is very important to look for Sudan as a country,
22:32full independent with the people who have a right to live peacefully.
22:39Thank you so much for your time.
22:40Thank you for being on the show with me.
22:42Thank you.
22:42As Dr. El-Naim outlined, the fall of El-Fashir is less about immediate secession
22:48and more about solidifying the RSF's control,
22:51raising fears of an ethnically driven campaign that threatens Sudan as a unified nation.
22:57Reports of atrocities have intensified calls for an independent investigation
23:01and renewed criticism of the international community's inaction.
23:05Thanks for tuning in.
23:06Until next time, I'm Ezgi Topar, and this was In the Newsroom.
23:11This was a TRT World podcast production.
23:14This episode for In the Newsroom was produced by me, Ezgi Topar,
23:18and was edited by Nasrullah Yilmaz,
23:21executive producer Nasra Omar Bukhwana.
23:23Our production team also includes Afsal Ahmed, Khalid Selim, and Ahmed Zia Gümüş.
23:29Thanks for listening.
23:30Thanks for listening.
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