- 2 months ago
In 2023, Virginia McCullough was charged with murdering her parents. Speaking freely to arresting officers, Virginia confessed to killing her parents in 2019 and then living alongside their dead bodies for the next five years in the house they shared.
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00:00:00Dear Charlie, apologies for not writing back to you sooner.
00:00:14I'm happy to open up to you and welcome the sentence I'm about to receive.
00:00:22I've made so many mistakes in my life through deception, secrecy and self-sabotage.
00:00:27The worst of all is the crime that I killed my parents.
00:00:51I knew even as a child that I should not have been a part of that family.
00:00:55And I thought about killing myself before I thought about killing my parents.
00:01:01I thought that I had no choice.
00:01:05I do not wish to receive any payments for giving my side of events.
00:01:09I would just like a chance to have a say, amongst all others.
00:01:13A woman from Essex has been charged with killing two people believed to be her parents.
00:01:20Most unlikely person to be a murderess.
00:01:23No one really knew too much about her, to be honest.
00:01:25She was weird at school, but not like murder your parents and hide their bodies weird.
00:01:29I kept on calling out for my father to see if he was alive.
00:01:32And part of me wanted him to reply to me.
00:01:35Four years ago, Ginny popped up.
00:01:39After that, we didn't see her parents anymore.
00:01:41Killing your own parents is extremely rare, especially from a female.
00:01:45What on earth drove her to do something so appalling?
00:01:48I felt emotionally desperate and trapped.
00:01:51I did not want to be stuck in misery.
00:01:53For her to have done that, something bad had happened.
00:01:58Something had driven her to it.
00:02:00Something was going on behind closed doors that we just didn't know about.
00:02:04She was a bit of a fantasist with some of the things that she used to say to us.
00:02:08I was relieved in a huge way that the deception was over.
00:02:12You question whether anything was true about her life.
00:02:17I have no reason to lie now, as there is no point.
00:02:20The road that led me to commit the crime is one which I think should be got first hand.
00:02:26I think it is important to allow Virginia to give her say,
00:02:30because I think the question of why she did what she did hasn't been answered.
00:02:40What I don't know is how truthful and honest she'll be.
00:02:50The police!
00:03:13Stay where you are!
00:03:14Stay where you are!
00:03:14Yeah.
00:03:15Jenny?
00:03:16Yeah.
00:03:17Jenny?
00:03:18Yeah.
00:03:19Oh.
00:03:20The time is 12.12.
00:03:21You're under a suspicion of murder against Jonathan McCullough and Elias McCullough.
00:03:25All right?
00:03:26Your rest is necessary.
00:03:27I'll go all right.
00:03:28Is there anything in the problem that we should know about?
00:03:29Yes, there is.
00:03:30Er, can we go in there for a second?
00:03:32Just so we can tell you something about what's the matter?
00:03:35Yep.
00:03:40Er, my dad's body isn't there.
00:03:42Right, okay.
00:03:43Okay.
00:03:44Yep, okay.
00:03:45Where about your mom?
00:03:46Er, a little bit more complicated.
00:03:48The footage of Virginia's arrest is extremely unusual because, first of all, most perpetrators
00:03:55don't want to incriminate themselves.
00:03:57But this appears to be the exact opposite of what happened with Ginny.
00:04:00Are you happy to sign that, to say that's a true account?
00:04:03Yeah.
00:04:04Secondly, at no point did she attempt to deny murdering both of her parents.
00:04:08And, shockingly, she seems to have no problem admitting she continued living in the house
00:04:13with their bodies.
00:04:14Cheer up.
00:04:15At least you thought the bad guy.
00:04:17And that begs the question, why?
00:04:19Why?
00:04:20Why did she do this?
00:04:22I was the first journalist on the ground and when I turned up at the scene, there was
00:04:49and one stood at the front door as well.
00:04:53And then there was a large police van parked up on the front drive.
00:05:01I'm Matt Lee, I'm a reporter from Essex Live
00:05:03and as the only reporter on shift that day
00:05:07I was sent by my editor down to the scene.
00:05:11Members of the public were wondering what had gone on,
00:05:14they were wondering who was involved,
00:05:16they were wondering why the police were all there.
00:05:22Great Baddow is a quiet village just outside Chelmsford.
00:05:27It's a sleepy area, nothing really happens there.
00:05:31The main feeling and emotion was one of surprise.
00:05:36I just turned the corner and there was police,
00:05:42there was press, there was people walking around
00:05:46in white sort of zip-up suits and masks and gloves.
00:05:53I thought it was Ginny.
00:05:56I was like, oh my God, oh my God, she's dead.
00:06:00And I was dialing her number and dialing her number.
00:06:03I was like, oh my God, please be okay, please answer.
00:06:07I was saying to people, I was like, oh my God, what's happened?
00:06:08And it wasn't until a little bit later that people were saying she'd murdered someone.
00:06:19A woman from Essex has been charged with killing two people believed to be her parents.
00:06:26Russell Hookie is in Chelmsford for us.
00:06:29A lot of details still remain unclear, Russell.
00:06:32Very much so.
00:06:33This is the house behind me where police have focused their attention.
00:06:3735-year-old Virginia McCulloch is charged with murdering John and Lois McCulloch.
00:06:41Her parents' neighbours here say all three lived in this house.
00:06:49When I turned up at the house, it became clear to me that there was far more to this story
00:06:55than I'd initially suspected.
00:06:58In the discussions I had with neighbours, it became clear quite early on
00:07:03that it wasn't perhaps what you might think of as a loving conventional family.
00:07:07It seemed that John, Virginia's father, was a university lecturer.
00:07:14He occupied part of the house, the rest of the family occupied another part.
00:07:20It seems this was a family that functioned,
00:07:23but perhaps there wasn't very much love between him and his children.
00:07:29He lived with his wife, Lois.
00:07:31They had several daughters, including one, Virginia, who lived with them at home.
00:07:37But there was no suggestion that Virginia had had prior contact with the police.
00:07:44So there was this disconnect between this seemingly quiet daughter
00:07:50who lived with her parents and a supposedly cold-blooded murderess.
00:07:55I was shocked, absolutely shocked.
00:08:06Because, well, John and Lois were customers of ours for many years.
00:08:11I'm Alan Thompson.
00:08:16I've got an electronic shop in Great Baddow.
00:08:20And I've been here since the 1970s.
00:08:25So, yeah, part of the furniture now.
00:08:30John and Lois rented equipment from us.
00:08:33But I couldn't say I knew much about them personally.
00:08:38They were not people that you would call social.
00:08:45Yeah, unusual customers.
00:08:46Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:49Lois used to come into the shop once a month with her payment book
00:08:53and make payments for the equipment.
00:08:56John was very patient, very serious, very quiet, subdued, withdrawn.
00:09:01Absolutely no casual talk at all.
00:09:05I never managed to get her to smile or have a conversation about the family.
00:09:15John was different.
00:09:17He was a very curt, very brusque man.
00:09:19I found him fairly impatient, always in a hurry.
00:09:24You say goodbye, he wouldn't normally reply, just walk out.
00:09:30I was aware there were four or five daughters.
00:09:33And I've heard rumours in the village that it was a strict regime at home for the girls.
00:09:39And I think that's the reason why they, as soon as they could leave home,
00:09:44did leave and make their own way.
00:09:46I believe that Ginny left home as well and lived somewhere else.
00:09:52I think in Chelmsford somewhere.
00:09:54But for some reason came back to live with her parents.
00:09:58I don't know when.
00:10:01In fact, walking past her house one day, I was surprised to see her there and not her parents.
00:10:09Ginny was very easy to talk to.
00:10:11A slightly unusual girl, but since it's happened, it's made me think, really,
00:10:19that you don't know what the people are like in their private lives.
00:10:26Ginny had moved away when we first got the shop.
00:10:30And then she moved back.
00:10:31She started coming into the shop and we thought we knew her.
00:10:38But obviously there was a different Ginny that was running around.
00:10:42My name's Paul.
00:10:46I've been running the greengrocers in Great Bellow for 22 years.
00:10:50Ginny's mum would come in quite regular, never really spoke, because she was quite a dowdy lady,
00:11:00like with the floral dresses and the cardigans, and that's how we mainly used to see her.
00:11:05Never really saw the dad.
00:11:07I think his name was John.
00:11:08Never really saw him a lot.
00:11:10And then about four years ago, Ginny popped up.
00:11:12And, you know, when someone comes in on a regular basis, you start talking to them.
00:11:18So we start finding out she's living around the corner in her mum and dad's house.
00:11:23And all of us here built up a rapport with Ginny.
00:11:27She was a bit eccentric.
00:11:29There was always something going on, some sort of drama or something or other.
00:11:34She never really mentioned her relationship with her parents.
00:11:39She said that she was back there to help her parents sell the house.
00:11:44So she was living there for a period of time and she'd actually had people round there just to get it ready for selling.
00:11:53After that, we didn't see her parents any more.
00:11:56The arrest had been made on the 15th of September,
00:12:04but the information that we knew at the time was very limited from Essex Police.
00:12:08We had no idea about the methods in which she'd killed her parents and where she had hidden them.
00:12:16But then quite quickly, there was a picture circulating of a trolley and a body bag on top of it being removed.
00:12:23So we knew that they had been kept within the property.
00:12:28So you are beginning to wonder, what sort of person is Virginia McCullough going to be?
00:12:34It was just a matter of days before she was making her first appearance in court.
00:12:41Seeing her for the first time, she's quite calm and almost quite shy.
00:12:48And she spoke only to confirm her name.
00:12:51There was very few details, but we learnt for the very first time the broad time frame
00:12:57in which Virginia was accused of killing her parents.
00:13:01We now knew that Virginia's parents had not been seen for nearly five years.
00:13:23Suddenly, you're thinking, wow, Virginia had kept this hidden for such a long time.
00:13:37I'm amazed that nobody picked up on the demise of Virginia's parents sooner.
00:13:43There'll be people who will think, oh, do you know what?
00:13:47I had a feeling something was wrong.
00:13:48I hadn't seen the McCulloughs for some time.
00:13:51And they'll be wishing that they'd spoken up.
00:13:54But they didn't.
00:13:55My name is Paul Mullary.
00:13:58I'm a former Essex police officer.
00:14:00And for 30 years, I served within Essex.
00:14:03And eight years, I was on the major investigation team.
00:14:06As a young detective in the early 1990s, I would go to Baddow so I know the area well.
00:14:13And I know the community that actually reside there.
00:14:15It is pure suburbia.
00:14:18It is the sort of place that you'd want to bring your kids up in.
00:14:22These types of crime leave many questions unanswered.
00:14:27Could the community have done more?
00:14:29The fact is that these people had been missing for some considerable time.
00:14:36But eventually, the GP of the local surgery raised the alarm
00:14:41that the McCulloughs have failed to meet several of their medical appointments.
00:14:46This was then passed on to the local police, who then carried out the arrest.
00:14:54Stay where you are.
00:14:55Stay where you are.
00:14:56All right, you rest in the series for a bunch of pictures.
00:14:59The body cam footage is quite remarkable.
00:15:04Virginia wasn't taken by surprise.
00:15:05In fact, I would say that she was almost relieved by the fact that they'd gone in there.
00:15:10And I find it really sad that these people have been in their home, dead for years.
00:15:19Still today, I find it difficult to comprehend or accept.
00:15:24And it makes me think that I should have been more questioning about the sudden disappearance of them.
00:15:32When I'd last seen them, I would think probably before the first COVID lockdown,
00:15:38and they were quite hale and hearty.
00:15:41And then Ginny came into the shop in 21 and said that the equipment that we'd supplied to her parents,
00:15:51she didn't need them anymore, she wasn't using them.
00:15:53So I made an arrangement for our lads to go around and collect them.
00:15:59So they went around there, and she got them just inside the front door.
00:16:03And so Morris handed them to them, and they brought them away.
00:16:08Our technicians were a little bit surprised that they hadn't got to go into the house to get them.
00:16:12You know, they were just by the door ready.
00:16:14But that's the customer's prerogative, isn't it?
00:16:18The main thing, I suppose, that seemed completely strange to me was I'd say to her,
00:16:24how are your parents?
00:16:26And she'd say, oh, they're fine.
00:16:28They've moved to Clacton.
00:16:29When we'd asked where her parents were, she said, oh, they've moved to Clacton,
00:16:36they're having a lovely time, and there's no reason for us to disbelieve what she said.
00:16:43Lots of people move away, you know, we have it all the time.
00:16:46So we never questioned anything about where her parents were.
00:16:49When she said that her parents just moved away,
00:16:52I think I should have asked her more.
00:17:00But you wouldn't think that you're chatting to a murderer.
00:17:13She said they'd packed up and they'd gone down to stay with friends in Devon.
00:17:18And then she'd said another time that they were staying with people in Kent.
00:17:29She didn't talk about her parents in any depth.
00:17:37The only thing that she really told me about them was when she said that they were moving around
00:17:43and she was now in charge of looking after the house and doing it up and preparing it for sale.
00:17:53She'd say, oh, I've been painting all day and I'm doing this to the garden.
00:17:56She was, like, telling me that it had been surveyed and that it had real problems structurally.
00:18:06There was subsidence and she said that pipes were leaking, some of her plug sockets had gone,
00:18:13and she even said that it could fall down in 20 years.
00:18:19She invited me round her home a lot of times, but she always cancelled.
00:18:23Because she made it seem like it wasn't particularly safe.
00:18:28I certainly didn't think it was because she was hiding what she was hiding.
00:18:32There was a huge amount of deception perpetrated by Virginia
00:18:39in order to cover up the fact that she'd murdered her parents.
00:18:42No one had seen them for some considerable period of time.
00:18:46And the local community were being told by Virginia that they were away on holiday
00:18:50or they had moved away.
00:18:53But she's got a dilemma.
00:18:55Here are the two bodies, what am I going to do with them?
00:18:58And the disposal of a dead body is not an easy thing to do.
00:19:02I'm Simon Dinsdale, and I spent 27 years as a detective with Essex Police.
00:19:08So in my experience, the level of sophistication of this hiding of the bodies,
00:19:16I can't recall a case like it.
00:19:20We now know she'd purchased from a well-known building supplier
00:19:24building materials, breeze blocks and cement,
00:19:27and she then built this mausoleum around her father's body.
00:19:33To answer about some of the materials in the garden,
00:19:40I said the garden wall was being done.
00:19:43I made a wooden and concrete block-type enclosed structure
00:19:48out of my father's original bed.
00:19:50I put wood at either end and extra blocks.
00:19:56I told the next-door neighbour that I was building a fireplace
00:19:59to make an excuse for any noise.
00:20:02She layered plastic on top of the body,
00:20:06and then over the top of that was a blanket,
00:20:09and she covered that with paintings and pictures.
00:20:15She's then rolled her mother's body into a sleeping bag.
00:20:18The following day, I went upstairs and, while crying,
00:20:23I moved my mother's body into a four-door wardrobe.
00:20:28I taped up the gaps in the wardrobe
00:20:30to get rid of any remaining maggots or flies
00:20:32that had initially started to appear.
00:20:37What Virginia did is staggering
00:20:41the concept that you could treat your parents in that way.
00:20:48First to murder them and then just to hide them away
00:20:50is incredible.
00:20:52What must she have been feeling
00:20:54as she's walking around that house
00:20:56knowing that her parents are in the next room?
00:20:59And the fact that she was able to function like that
00:21:01says a lot to her state of mind.
00:21:05What on earth drove her to do something so appalling?
00:21:13Killing your own parents in itself
00:21:14obviously is extremely rare.
00:21:16But what makes it really unique about this case,
00:21:20you've got a female perpetrator.
00:21:22There's no history of violence or offending,
00:21:25and she's been in close proximity to the bodies
00:21:29for almost five years.
00:21:32My name is Dr. Shaham Das.
00:21:34I'm a consultant forensic psychiatrist,
00:21:36and I've psychiatrically analysed several hundred defendants
00:21:40who've committed a range of violent offences.
00:21:46For many murder cases,
00:21:48you would expect the perpetrator to get rid of the body
00:21:51because they don't want to incriminate themselves.
00:21:54Ginny didn't do this.
00:21:55She kept the bodies for a long period of time.
00:21:58So what is that about?
00:21:59Is that that she literally couldn't get over
00:22:01the barrier of doing it psychologically,
00:22:03or is it that she wanted to keep them close
00:22:06because she still felt connected to them?
00:22:11In a case like this,
00:22:13I think the public's natural inclination
00:22:15is to assume there must be something
00:22:17very dark and traumatic in her past.
00:22:19And if I was instructed as an expert in this case,
00:22:24I would want to delve into Virginia's past
00:22:27to see if there were any key incidents
00:22:30or causes of psychological distress and damage.
00:22:34And one of the most important and key factors
00:22:37is past trauma, including childhood experiences.
00:22:40I knew Ginny all the way through
00:22:53infants and juniors school,
00:22:55and we were quite close friends in year two
00:22:58because we were placed next to each other.
00:23:03I kind of was aware at the time
00:23:06that there was differences between us
00:23:10and, you know, when you talk to grown-ups,
00:23:12they go, oh, she's just a bit hot, isn't she?
00:23:14Yeah.
00:23:15She was weird at school,
00:23:16but not like murder your parents
00:23:18and hide their bodies weird.
00:23:31When I first read that it was definitely her,
00:23:34it was definitely her house,
00:23:35it was definitely a double murder,
00:23:37and we didn't know the timescale of it,
00:23:39I immediately thought, oh, my God.
00:23:43I didn't even know she still lived there.
00:23:45I was so weirded out by it
00:23:47because this is a kid I went to school with
00:23:51who I sat next to.
00:23:57She was odd.
00:23:58I don't remember a lot of personality from her.
00:24:04I did get the overall feeling through most of school
00:24:08that there was bullying.
00:24:12You know, when you just remember picking up on people,
00:24:15just not saying nice things.
00:24:16Even though she hung around in our group,
00:24:18there were people in our group that would then, like,
00:24:22not torment her, but, like, take the mick out of her.
00:24:25I think she wanted to be friends with people.
00:24:28Yeah.
00:24:29But she didn't always know how.
00:24:30Like, you couldn't really work out who she was,
00:24:33if that makes sense.
00:24:34There was a time where she bought me in a gift,
00:24:38and it was, like, obviously things she'd, like,
00:24:40nicked from around the house.
00:24:42And I remember kind of being, like, oh, thank you.
00:24:46And, like, I was a kid.
00:24:47I didn't really know what was going on.
00:24:49And I do remember that she was a very gifting person.
00:24:54Yeah.
00:24:55And for that one year, we were relatively close friends.
00:24:58But we never got to have any playdates.
00:25:01It was always kind of her parents wouldn't allow it.
00:25:05Yeah, I remember when we were at school,
00:25:07she didn't really talk about her parents.
00:25:08I knew she was sort of the youngest of, you know,
00:25:11siblings and her parents had her when they were quite a bit older.
00:25:16I think even from quite a young age,
00:25:18she was very close down about family.
00:25:21I was quite aware, even at a young age,
00:25:24the way she spoke, especially about her mum,
00:25:27that it wasn't a great relationship.
00:25:30Yeah, I just remember her kind of saying,
00:25:32I don't like my mum, I don't like my mum at all.
00:25:34I mean, that's fair enough as teenagers,
00:25:36but this was quite a lot younger.
00:25:39So, yeah, for me, it reads as a very sad story
00:25:43of somebody who's really, really fallen through the cracks.
00:25:48I knew, even as a child, that I should not have been a part of that family.
00:25:57My parents were too strict and cold.
00:26:00They would sometimes become violent and I was smacked and hit for very small things.
00:26:05At five years old, I had not been potty trained and was still wetting the bed at night.
00:26:12I would be smacked in the bath for wetting if my mum was too stressed out.
00:26:16I wondered if my parents loved me or I was a burden.
00:26:21About the time I started school, I still needed help going to the toilet.
00:26:26Children were noticing that I looked untidy and strange.
00:26:30I was dirty some days and others I had washing up liquid slipped back in my hair in a ponytail.
00:26:36I looked so unkempt or dirty that kids started saying,
00:26:40Genie germs, no returns.
00:26:43At home, my drinks were limited to three cups a day to try to prevent me wetting the bed.
00:26:48But when I was ten, I was still not dry at night.
00:26:52My dad took me to the chemist to get Huggies pull-ups and said very loudly to embarrass me.
00:26:58You can carry them as they are yours.
00:27:01According to what Virginia wrote in her letters,
00:27:05she struggled at school and she also struggled at home.
00:27:08So it feels like, to me, it's almost like she doesn't have any kind of safe space.
00:27:14And so this is almost like a perfect storm.
00:27:18The thing that really stands out to me is just the degree of childhood neglect
00:27:22that she says that she went through.
00:27:25Virginia highlights an incident where her father intentionally shamed her in a pharmacy
00:27:31whilst they were buying pull-up nappies for her.
00:27:35Growing up in this environment of not being loved, of being regularly criticised
00:27:40and potentially being physically and emotionally abused
00:27:43I think could have left Virginia with this feeling of resentment
00:27:47towards her parents that might have bubbled up and grown over time.
00:27:53I was told off or smacked by both my parents for anything
00:27:56and I felt like I had no approval or praise at home.
00:28:01The one thing that did matter to my parents was academic achievement.
00:28:06But I experienced some of the worst bullying at secondary school
00:28:10and my grades fell short as I found that I struggled.
00:28:14My father would make speeches to me where he said I would end up in a cardboard box
00:28:19on the streets and amount to nothing.
00:28:21So I decided to scan my school report to cover up my grades
00:28:26and sure enough they were actually pleased with me for a change.
00:28:31But at the end of year 11, when it was time for my school report
00:28:35to be given to my parents, it was posted and there was nothing that I could do.
00:28:40My mum really laid into me, as did my dad, telling me I was useless and stupid,
00:28:48a wretched human being that was not their daughter.
00:28:52If what she says is correct, the love from her parents is very conditional.
00:28:58They would only show her love if she was able to achieve something in return.
00:29:04In my professional opinion, this feeling of not being loved,
00:29:08feeling like a burden would constitute abuse, specifically emotional abuse.
00:29:14At the same time, they would use physical punishment and discipline.
00:29:20Your parents are the people that support you when you're younger
00:29:23and they also help you develop your own moral compass.
00:29:27So if you've experienced violence from a parental figure,
00:29:30that would increase the risk of you becoming violent later on in life.
00:29:34She was a nice girl, Ginny, quite quiet, a little bit different, I'd say.
00:29:59No one really knew too much about her, to be honest.
00:30:03She did distance herself quite a lot.
00:30:06And some of the stories that she used to say didn't quite add up.
00:30:11So maybe there was another side to Ginny that we just didn't know.
00:30:18Maybe the person that she was trying to portray was different to reality.
00:30:25I'm Will. I run the ship and Ginny was one of my members of staff here.
00:30:34She used to do the occasional Saturday night on the bar.
00:30:39And she worked for us for about two or three years, I'd say.
00:30:43She always made quite a bit of effort when she worked here.
00:30:47She'd always dress herself up quite nicely, lots of make-up.
00:30:50She'd wear these dresses to make herself quite revealing as well.
00:30:56You know, she used to like the attention.
00:30:58I think she enjoyed working here, to be honest.
00:31:01But yeah, the more I got to know her, the more I realised she's a little bit different.
00:31:07She used to do strange things like stand right behind you
00:31:11and you wouldn't know she was there until you turned around.
00:31:14You're like, whoa, where did you come from, you know?
00:31:16You're like, I didn't even know you were there.
00:31:18There'd just be awkward silences with her, you know?
00:31:21Like, the conversation wouldn't flow very well.
00:31:23She used to make just odd comments as well, here and there.
00:31:27When you used to ask her to do normal jobs that someone could probably do,
00:31:31you know, quite easily, use their common sense, she would just, I don't know,
00:31:34seem to struggle with that a little bit.
00:31:36The customers used to find her funny here, but I don't know if they were always laughing with her.
00:31:41They may have been laughing at her.
00:31:43Some of the other staff used to talk about her a little bit behind her back.
00:31:52If I was working with Ginny on shift, she would ask for a lift home.
00:31:57I used to pull up outside her house.
00:32:01I think she invited me around for a cup of tea once as well, but I declined.
00:32:05And her bag wasn't really that big, but it seemed like she was looking in her bag for quite a while.
00:32:11A lot longer than it should have taken her to find the keys.
00:32:14So that's when I thought, like, it's a bit strange.
00:32:17It was like she was delaying going back home.
00:32:22One time her dad answered the door.
00:32:26He was wearing underwear and her wife beat her.
00:32:29I couldn't see his face.
00:32:31Something was going on behind closed doors that we just didn't know about.
00:32:35That's what I just thought.
00:32:38I knew that John was a father, but he never really spoke to me about his family.
00:32:53I probably knew him for around about 12 years.
00:32:56You'd see him in here two to three times a week.
00:32:59John could be quite volatile, quite eccentric.
00:33:05And whenever he played Sneaker, he'd expect absolute pin drop silence,
00:33:10despite not being a particularly quiet person himself when he spoke.
00:33:14John would have a drink no matter what time of the day it was.
00:33:20And he was very keen on snooker.
00:33:24But if it wasn't going well when it was getting to him,
00:33:27then he would want a pint of Foster's or a glass of red wine or a double brandy.
00:33:32Hopefully not all at the same time, but maybe sometimes.
00:33:35And there was a little story where he might have had one too many drinks at lunch one day
00:33:41and then he'd fallen over outside the university in front of maybe 20-odd people
00:33:46and then decided to stop drinking.
00:33:49After about a week and a half, he looked noticeably better for the fact
00:33:53that he hadn't been drinking for those days.
00:33:56But of course that didn't last.
00:33:58Just before the lockdown in 2020, I'd realised that we hadn't seen John since the previous year.
00:34:23So at that time, I was kind of thinking, I wonder what's happened to John.
00:34:27But then of course the pandemic exploded.
00:34:30So we didn't dwell on it for too long.
00:34:38My dad's drinking began long before I was born.
00:34:42When dad got drunk, fights between my mum and dad would get far too over the top.
00:34:48I had a role of being a buffer between my dad's drinking and mother's mental health.
00:34:54Or taking abuse from one or both of them.
00:34:57My mum had severe OCD for years and would wipe door handles, sofa surfaces, chairs in neat disinfectant.
00:35:05She taught us to see our dad as unclean or covered in germs.
00:35:10Sometimes my mother would shout out insults in the night or say she wished I was dead.
00:35:16It was hard to calm her down or reason with her and my dad resorted to drinking more.
00:35:21I will not go into all details for everything that happened that my father did.
00:35:36There's something not right with that whole family dynamic.
00:35:39For a while afterwards, I was playing through every single conversation we had and everything that she said to me.
00:35:48Talking about her parents, she gave me the impression she had quite a difficult relationship with them.
00:35:55And I always felt that there was something there. There was a barrier.
00:36:02She never said about childhood experiences.
00:36:06Maybe she thought she would reveal something or say something if she did.
00:36:11I thought there'd been some kind of abuse.
00:36:14There'd been something terrible that happened that got her to that point.
00:36:19For her to have done that, something bad had happened.
00:36:24Something driven to it.
00:36:30Jeannie never shared anything about home life.
00:36:32Which is a sad thing, really, because everybody talks about their home life.
00:36:37There's lots of people saying, oh, you know, that dad was quite abusive and that.
00:36:42Where if that's true or not, I couldn't say that.
00:36:45But that was the talk.
00:36:47I don't know anything about Jeannie's father. Not really.
00:36:51Nobody did.
00:36:53So you didn't know how much to believe.
00:36:56You know, what happens behind closed doors.
00:36:59You're never privy to that information.
00:37:01So there's lots of stuff unanswered.
00:37:03One of the things around every murder is why has this taken place.
00:37:10Now, what we don't know is what happens behind closed doors.
00:37:13But there is some suggestion that the entire family were unhappy.
00:37:18Lois is described as being a fun hoover.
00:37:24Virginia's father was particularly strict in her upbringing.
00:37:28And was this killing retribution for acts that he had undertaken previously?
00:37:36In a village, you know, when something like this happens, yeah, people start chatting.
00:37:40And my thoughts really were with the parents.
00:37:44I thought, what a dreadful thing to have happened to them.
00:37:48When it first seemed that she'd murdered her father, I wondered if it had been a sudden argument.
00:37:55Because I could imagine John could have a quick fuse.
00:38:00And John used to go and have a drink.
00:38:02That came to my mind immediately.
00:38:08When there is a lack of information that's publicly available,
00:38:11there is the opportunity for speculation to fill that chasm.
00:38:17There was an element of that in this case in Great Bado.
00:38:21And because the family were so reserved and very private in their lifestyles,
00:38:27that almost added to that element of why this might have happened,
00:38:31There were some speculations that there had been an abusive element of the family.
00:38:38Now that was something that we weren't able to verify.
00:38:42So it was pure speculation.
00:38:49A number of months before the end, my mother was getting more and more emotionally cruel,
00:38:54telling me I was worthless.
00:38:56And there was growing toxicity from my dad's drinking.
00:39:00Nighttime was my only respite.
00:39:03And even then, I would cry and feel hopeless.
00:39:07I felt emotionally desperate and trapped.
00:39:11I got to a point where there was nothing that I wanted more than a normal, quiet life.
00:39:17At almost any cost.
00:39:19I was like, no, no.
00:39:20I didn't know.
00:39:21I didn't know what I wanted.
00:39:22I was like, no, no.
00:39:23You're like, no, no.
00:39:24You're not allowed to heal.
00:39:25But I didn't know.
00:39:26There's some great suffering we can get.
00:39:27I was able.
00:39:28You're so careful.
00:39:29Let's say, yeah.
00:39:30I'm as follows.
00:39:31And I was like, yes.
00:39:32I was like, yes.
00:39:33And I was like, no, no, no, no word.
00:39:34You can't.
00:39:35No, no, no.
00:39:36But I was like, no.
00:39:38At this point, the story begins to take a step forward
00:39:58because we finally find out how Lois died.
00:40:02The cause of John's death at this point in the investigation remained unclear,
00:40:06but the post-mortem examination revealed that Lois had died from stab wounds.
00:40:15The method that Virginia chose to kill her mother, stabbing her repeatedly,
00:40:20it's very frenzied, it's very brutal, and it's also very intimate.
00:40:25For a woman to commit this level of violence is extremely unusual,
00:40:29particularly when we've got an individual, Virginia,
00:40:31who doesn't have a known history of previous violence or aggression.
00:40:34The fact that Virginia could do this says a lot about her psychological makeup.
00:40:39In this case, there are some elements that are just so bizarre.
00:40:58You've got a female perpetrator.
00:41:00She's chosen her own parents as the target,
00:41:02and she's been in close proximity to the bodies for almost five years.
00:41:08So what would have been definitely considered is a potential psychiatric defence.
00:41:14In extreme cases where somebody is driven by mental illness,
00:41:18they might be found not guilty by reason and sanity,
00:41:20and that is full absolution.
00:41:22So if the court agrees with that plea,
00:41:24it means in the eyes of the law you are innocent.
00:41:27There's always the question in circumstances like this
00:41:43as to how sound of mind the possible perpetrator is during these crimes.
00:41:51But it's quite unsavoury to imagine that someone could go about their daily life
00:41:56coexisting with two corpses inside the house.
00:42:00You begin to wonder how could her daily life have continued
00:42:03and how she kept up the pretense that her parents were still alive.
00:42:09I spent the first six months mostly indoors.
00:42:14I did not sleep upstairs, but in the lounge, on the couch.
00:42:19Having my parents in the house, but without any mental abuse or drinking,
00:42:23I admit in a strange way, was a silent comfort.
00:42:27I did go out now and again,
00:42:29and I did obviously encounter locals and some neighbours.
00:42:32I told them that my parents were away at first,
00:42:35and then I said that they had moved to the coast.
00:42:37I was just living normally and quietly,
00:42:40which is rather dull to some, perhaps,
00:42:43but it's all I wanted at the time I committed the crime.
00:42:56She just seemed to appear one day.
00:42:58Yeah.
00:42:59Literally, she was looking outside, I believe,
00:43:02and then she just came in.
00:43:04I hadn't seen her around or anything like that.
00:43:06It's just kind of like she appeared
00:43:08and then hung around for quite a few years.
00:43:14So I'm Rachel.
00:43:16And this is Debbie.
00:43:17I'm Debbie.
00:43:17I own House of Flowers in Great Baddow.
00:43:25And Rachel is my trusty...
00:43:28..boss.
00:43:32She started off just browsing at things
00:43:34and would spend more and spend more and more time
00:43:36and just bought all different stuff.
00:43:41I didn't really engage with her because I just felt she was just too much.
00:43:46Yeah, she was a bit...
00:43:48Well, she was strange.
00:43:50Very strange.
00:43:51She used to wander in the shop going,
00:43:53Oh, hello, hello.
00:43:54Yeah, she was strange.
00:43:59She was a bit of a fantasist with some of the things that she used to say to us.
00:44:03But you just smile and accept it.
00:44:06And you'd just think it's Ginny's behaviour.
00:44:09It's just the way she was, you know.
00:44:13But over this period of time,
00:44:15we got to know that she could be quite a generous person.
00:44:20It'd be the odd coffee.
00:44:22Then it'd become more regular,
00:44:25buying doughnuts to the staff, cakes to the staff.
00:44:28It was all mainly food stuff, food items.
00:44:31It got to a stage where I was sort of turning her down
00:44:33because I wanted to lose a bit of weight
00:44:35and the stuff that she was buying me was making me fat.
00:44:38Well, she spent loads of money.
00:44:41At first, it was mainly all cash.
00:44:44It would always be over £100, wasn't it?
00:44:47Quite often, £140, £150.
00:44:50Just on random goods and shit.
00:44:52On giftware more than anything.
00:44:54And then she came in with a bag of food for us.
00:44:58I said, Ginny, let me pay for this.
00:45:01And she wouldn't take the money.
00:45:03She brought the second lot in.
00:45:05I said, Ginny, you've got to stop doing this.
00:45:08That's when she started buying the bouquets for people
00:45:10after that as well, wasn't it?
00:45:12Yeah.
00:45:13For people like the elderly lady over the road.
00:45:16And a couple that lived a few dollars down.
00:45:18Yeah.
00:45:19I just thought, why are you buying these things?
00:45:21I don't understand why.
00:45:23I thought she was just trying too hard.
00:45:24Maybe she's just trying to make friends, maybe.
00:45:29Almost like childlike in a way.
00:45:35People would say that she was odd.
00:45:37But she wasn't odd to me.
00:45:40You know, she was just Ginny.
00:45:44Ginny was a little quirky.
00:45:46You know, she was just always about.
00:45:50She was constantly outside her house and around.
00:45:55And you would see her on her drive and doing gardening out front
00:46:00or sweeping up leaves.
00:46:01And she'd stop me and she'd say something.
00:46:04Oh, your hair's nice.
00:46:05Oh, that colour looks good on you.
00:46:07And she just seemed, you know, a genuine person.
00:46:11I don't think she had many people that did want to listen to her
00:46:17or were interested or even cared.
00:46:22I've heard people say that she wanted to buy friendship.
00:46:27But I don't think she did that.
00:46:31I think she wanted to feel like she was a nice person
00:46:35and she was doing nice things for people.
00:46:40All the time we'd be coming over something.
00:46:42You know, something to eat, something to drink.
00:46:45Did we want anything?
00:46:46You know.
00:46:47And that's when we started to question,
00:46:48where did she get the money from?
00:46:49Because, as far as we were aware, Virginia never worked.
00:46:55We now know that Virginia was taking full advantage
00:46:59of her parents' financial situation.
00:47:03After their deaths,
00:47:05she regularly took money from their bank account.
00:47:08She knew the PIN numbers had access to those accounts.
00:47:12She continued to claim her parents' state pension
00:47:16and work-related pensions.
00:47:18She was benefiting hugely from money
00:47:21which was intended to go to them.
00:47:24And on the day they were killed,
00:47:27Virginia ordered a new card in her mum's name
00:47:29and went on a spending spree.
00:47:33This was a woman who had no qualms
00:47:36about spending and stealing time and time a game.
00:47:41You can't help but think,
00:47:42what was she doing with all that money?
00:47:48Yes, I did use money that I should not have done.
00:47:53That was pension money and on credit cards.
00:47:56But I did not buy any holidays, vehicles, designer items
00:47:59or anything high-end.
00:48:01I spent money on everyday things and bills
00:48:04to keep the house running.
00:48:06It is true that I bought some locals food,
00:48:09takeaways and other things on regular occasions
00:48:12to be kind.
00:48:13I was addicted to the smile
00:48:15that it would put on some of their faces
00:48:16and the friendly behaviour that then followed.
00:48:23Ginny, to me, was a customer.
00:48:26I wouldn't call her a friend.
00:48:29No.
00:48:29No way.
00:48:30To me, she was a nuisance.
00:48:32She got banned from a couple of shops
00:48:34because she was such a nuisance.
00:48:36I didn't have a clue what she was talking about half the time.
00:48:38Most of the time I would just be yes, no, yes, no,
00:48:41because I was just trying to cut it short.
00:48:44There was always something new.
00:48:46There's always a new story for her to tell you about,
00:48:49some sort of drama.
00:48:51You know, a ring doorbell getting hacked,
00:48:53the internet getting hacked,
00:48:55a phone's getting hacked,
00:48:56a post going missing.
00:48:57She always had problems with two neighbours across the road
00:49:00and actually spoke to the people
00:49:01that she was making these things up about
00:49:04and they were like, what?
00:49:05That's where her then centricity come from
00:49:07because she was making up all these things.
00:49:10I always felt she was a little bit of a fantasist.
00:49:13I'd speak to her for a while
00:49:14and it would be a normal conversation
00:49:18but then she'd say something
00:49:19which was completely off the planet.
00:49:22You'd think, that can't be right.
00:49:24She'd sometimes say something like,
00:49:26oh, the neighbours are spying on me.
00:49:29You have to be careful with that one over there
00:49:31or my mail was being stolen.
00:49:35I mean, a few weeks before she was arrested,
00:49:37she was going around telling people that she was pregnant.
00:49:40She said she was pregnant,
00:49:44so you start to question them.
00:49:46Oh, who's the dad?
00:49:48Because there's never been a mention of a boyfriend
00:49:49in any of this time that she's been here.
00:49:53So, oh, the dad's an old boyfriend of mine.
00:49:57You know how it is.
00:49:58When she came out that she was pregnant,
00:50:02she didn't tell us who it was
00:50:04or any information about him as a person either.
00:50:09Anyone normal, you'd have a two-way conversation
00:50:13where you just didn't have a two-way conversation with her.
00:50:15She would just tell you what she wanted you to hear
00:50:19and then that was it.
00:50:22And then I started to doubt if there ever was the pregnancy.
00:50:26Some days she would really be rubbing the belly
00:50:29and really showing the belly.
00:50:31Then other days, I was like, where's the bump gone?
00:50:33It wasn't consistent as it was getting bigger.
00:50:36It was bigger some days and other.
00:50:39It went from a lot of high-neat bumps to quite big.
00:50:41And then to quite a big bump.
00:50:42Yeah.
00:50:43How can your baby grow that much in such a short time?
00:50:47I'd already questioned a few things, hadn't I,
00:50:50with the paperwork and stuff.
00:50:51Because of the paperwork she carried around everywhere with her
00:50:53in just photocopies or something.
00:50:55It was just photocopies in her handbag
00:50:56and it was always poked out of her bag.
00:50:59Just enough for you to see baby stuff
00:51:01but not enough for you to actually physically see
00:51:04exactly what it was.
00:51:07I just don't think she was pregnant at all.
00:51:09When someone comes in and says they're pregnant
00:51:11and shows you a scan, all very quickly,
00:51:15you have doubts.
00:51:17I don't know why she did it.
00:51:19Just think it was just like everything else
00:51:22that went round in Pump Hill.
00:51:24This is just another one of them things.
00:51:26Maybe it was the crackling of the edges
00:51:29that she'd had this facade for so long
00:51:32and things were starting to tumble and down.
00:51:35So she was starting to come up with things
00:51:36so people would feel sorrier for her a bit more.
00:51:39I don't know.
00:51:41But it was definitely stuff going on.
00:51:43When you're friends with somebody,
00:51:49there's an element of trust and truth and honesty
00:51:54and I don't know how much she was with me
00:51:59with all of those things.
00:52:02She said that she'd had a scan
00:52:04and the baby was fine
00:52:07and that's when she told me it was a girl.
00:52:10She said that there was this big family gathering
00:52:15and they were all going to be there
00:52:17and she said that she was going to go
00:52:20and tell them all that she was pregnant.
00:52:23And when I saw her the next day,
00:52:26I said, oh, yeah, how did it go down?
00:52:28Was everyone really happy for you?
00:52:29Are they all excited?
00:52:30You know, this is...
00:52:31And she went, no, no.
00:52:33She said, my parents are very old-fashioned
00:52:36and they don't approve of the fact
00:52:38that I haven't got a partner when I'm single.
00:52:42I don't know.
00:52:43I just...
00:52:43I just believed her
00:52:45and took everything on face value.
00:52:50You know, I think she must have known
00:52:52that she wouldn't have had time with this baby
00:52:55because she was hiding her huge secret
00:52:58and she must have known
00:52:59there was a time when it would all come out.
00:53:02Telling all these lies,
00:53:08this is either somebody that's completely fabricating
00:53:10or lying for sympathy.
00:53:12Somebody who's extremely sensitive
00:53:14and perhaps quite dramatic.
00:53:17It was simply a pathological liar.
00:53:21We do know that Virginia is obviously quite deceitful
00:53:24in terms of the fact that she managed to hide
00:53:27the death of her parents' lie about their location for years.
00:53:29Virginia had engaged in a very comprehensive
00:53:35and complex cover-up of her parents' deaths.
00:53:39There was a huge amount of deception
00:53:41perpetrated by Virginia.
00:53:43Ginny contacted the GP nearly 200 times,
00:53:48making and then cancelling appointments for her parents.
00:53:51She was, in effect, juggling plates all the while,
00:53:55booking medical appointments and then cancelling them,
00:53:57suggesting that they couldn't attend
00:53:59for one reason or another,
00:54:02using their bank accounts sufficiently
00:54:03to make it seem that they were still using them.
00:54:07She had to convince people
00:54:09that her parents were still alive
00:54:11and she was doing that
00:54:12through multiple text messages to the authorities.
00:54:17It was one lie after another.
00:54:20Looking at Virginia's lie
00:54:25in terms of keeping her parents' body in the family home,
00:54:30yet telling so many different people across years
00:54:34about her parents' apparent whereabouts
00:54:36and their travelling,
00:54:37it shows a real commitment.
00:54:38The average person would significantly struggle
00:54:41with lying about something so intense,
00:54:44so emotional about covering up the murder
00:54:47of your own parents,
00:54:48especially doing it consistently
00:54:50for such a long period of time.
00:54:52I imagine it must have been psychologically taxing
00:54:55for Virginia,
00:54:56and I do wonder whether this pressure
00:54:58just built up in her mind over time.
00:55:03Weeks leading up to her,
00:55:04she got quite paranoid.
00:55:06I don't think she was in a very good place.
00:55:10Her conversations were more and more
00:55:12about how awful her life was becoming
00:55:15with what she was having to deal with
00:55:18and the problems that she was having
00:55:22living in her street.
00:55:24And it was a lot about her neighbours
00:55:26and a lot about the police.
00:55:30One particular day she came in,
00:55:32obviously very, very distressed.
00:55:35I've never seen her like that before.
00:55:37Because she had a big bandage on her arm, didn't she?
00:55:39And then she just kept blaming her neighbours
00:55:42that our neighbours had attacked her.
00:55:44We hadn't seen her for about two weeks,
00:55:46which was a long time not to see Ginny.
00:55:48And she walked in the front door of the shop
00:55:50and she had bruises and lacerations.
00:55:53So I'm like, what happened?
00:55:55Oh, I was in the bedroom
00:55:57and at three o'clock in the morning
00:55:58I heard a kerfuffle out in the garden.
00:56:01So I've gone downstairs and gone outside.
00:56:04And someone was there and I confronted them.
00:56:06They jumped me and then he jumped off and ran away.
00:56:08She had told me that they were slashing her
00:56:11with some kind of blade
00:56:13and they were punching her in the face.
00:56:16She said that she was convinced it was her neighbours.
00:56:20But there were people saying that it was all self-inflicted.
00:56:25And I don't know,
00:56:27you'd really have to go some to do that to yourself.
00:56:30Her face was really bad
00:56:34cos we both were scrutinising her
00:56:37to see if it was really good make-up.
00:56:40We didn't think it was.
00:56:41I don't think it was make-up.
00:56:42It looked really good, if it was.
00:56:46I was genuinely worried about her
00:56:48as much as I thought she was crazy.
00:56:50I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
00:56:52But then she said the police were against her.
00:56:56They've been round, they've asked questions,
00:56:58but I don't trust them, can't trust them at all.
00:57:01They're all in on it.
00:57:03I just kept saying,
00:57:04Deb, just back off.
00:57:06She's becoming crazier.
00:57:08It was just too much.
00:57:11Around a month before the arrest took place,
00:57:14officers attended the home address of Virginia McCulloch.
00:57:16Now, they'd gone there
00:57:17in order to investigate an alleged assault on her.
00:57:21She invited the officers in.
00:57:24The officer that attended,
00:57:25whilst she didn't see anything untoward,
00:57:29she would have carried out house-to-house inquiries
00:57:31in relation to the assault that had taken place.
00:57:35And a neighbour said,
00:57:36well, actually, there's three people live there,
00:57:38but we haven't seen the old couple
00:57:39for some considerable time.
00:57:42She became very unhappy.
00:57:44She said that the police had been knocking on people
00:57:46houses and saying things like,
00:57:48do you think Virginia's a nuisance?
00:57:50Does she bother you?
00:57:51Do you want to make a complaint about her?
00:57:53It seemed strange that she was so obsessed with the police.
00:58:07She just wouldn't let it go.
00:58:11She was talking about a court case
00:58:12that she was bringing against the police.
00:58:15And she'd even told me that the police had told her
00:58:18that if she'd kept calling,
00:58:20they were going to arrest her.
00:58:22If you had done what she'd done,
00:58:25you'd want to be so far off the police's radar
00:58:27that you wouldn't even want them to know
00:58:29that you were born.
00:58:31I think she did want to be found out.
00:58:35It's the only thing that kind of makes any sense.
00:58:37She must have known that there was a knock on the door coming.
00:58:40I had a call on the Tuesday
00:58:52asking where my parents were
00:58:54and I said that they were away.
00:58:57I knew that the officer was unhappy with my answers.
00:59:00On the Wednesday,
00:59:01police were knocking on windows and doors.
00:59:03They called out for me through the letterbox.
00:59:05I did not come to the door
00:59:07but I knew that the arrest was fast approaching.
00:59:12The last time I saw Ginny was on a Thursday.
00:59:15She spoke to one of my colleagues
00:59:17and she said that the police were looking for her.
00:59:20We didn't pay much attention to it at the time
00:59:22but she did say to my colleague
00:59:24that the police were after her
00:59:26because she had murdered her parents.
00:59:28You what?
00:59:28And we just was all like,
00:59:31yeah, it was one of her sort of fantasy stories
00:59:34that she's coming out with.
00:59:38On the Friday,
00:59:39I heard thuds at the door.
00:59:42Police were all over the garden
00:59:43trying to see into the house.
00:59:45I had to barely make a sound
00:59:47or they would know I was there.
00:59:50On the Friday,
00:59:51my colleagues I was working with at the time
00:59:53said to me,
00:59:54the police are around Ginny's.
00:59:55So I went flying round her
00:59:56because I thought something would happen to her.
00:59:59So I managed to grab one of the police officers there
01:00:01at the time and said,
01:00:02can you just tell me if she's all right?
01:00:04And they said, yeah, she's all right
01:00:06but she won't let us in.
01:00:07And I went, so she's okay
01:00:09but you're here to arrest her?
01:00:11And he goes, yeah.
01:00:15She sent me a message
01:00:17that she thought she was going to be arrested.
01:00:20The number you have dialed
01:00:21is currently not available.
01:00:23She sounded like,
01:00:25oh, this is just an inconvenience.
01:00:27It'll all get sorted out, you know.
01:00:30But it was the last communication.
01:00:33I didn't hear from her again.
01:00:35Please leave your message after the tone.
01:00:39There's not really an easy way of saying this
01:00:41because they weren't out of my way.
01:00:43The natives have made some ridiculous accusations against me
01:00:46about my parents and about the house
01:00:49and this, that and the other.
01:00:50I might be kept in custody for about seven days.
01:00:55I'm not sure.
01:00:56Anyway, I will love you and leave you
01:00:59and I will hopefully catch you soon.
01:01:02Take care. Bye.
01:01:03I knew I would be arrested one day
01:01:25and should be.
01:01:26I knew I should be punished
01:01:27which is why I did not try and run or leave.
01:01:31I was relieved in a huge way
01:01:33that the deception was over.
01:01:35I was also relieved to welcome
01:01:37what would take its course.
01:01:39So I told the police plenty of information
01:01:41to help the investigation
01:01:42and was trying to make things easier for them.
01:01:46I tried to open up best I could.
01:01:48After Virginia was arrested
01:01:52and taken to the police station
01:01:54I'm not sure that the officers were prepared
01:01:57for the regurgitation of information
01:02:00that Virginia supplied to them.
01:02:02The fact is she was quite happy to deliver
01:02:05all of this information
01:02:06about the way that she killed her parents.
01:02:09She almost vomited the information to them.
01:02:11So, murder weapon is upstairs
01:02:15in our window room and kitchen.
01:02:20So on the ground floor
01:02:24underneath the stairs
01:02:26there's a few storage boxes and things
01:02:30and in the middle there's a hammer.
01:02:35It's rusted but it will still have blood traces on it.
01:02:39It's a very, very rare occurrence
01:02:42for somebody to make that type of confession.
01:02:45It's incredible.
01:02:47So not cooperating is futile.
01:02:51There's no point in not cooperating.
01:02:53It really isn't.
01:02:54If you want me to shush up this, it's fine.
01:02:57But every bit helps.
01:03:00From my point of view
01:03:01what this actually says about her
01:03:03is that she is a controlling, coercive individual.
01:03:07that she knows what she's doing.
01:03:10So, the next bit is very hard to talk about.
01:03:13That's probably the most grisly detail.
01:03:16The fact is she's trying to portray herself
01:03:18as being compassionate
01:03:19but she's not compassionate.
01:03:20She's cold-hearted.
01:03:22I suspect that Virginia took great pleasure
01:03:25in describing the way in which she had murdered
01:03:28in particular her mother.
01:03:30The description that Virginia gave
01:03:50is, quite frankly, appalling.
01:03:53One of the most shocking aspects
01:03:55is the amount of planning.
01:03:57We know she started to plan it from about March.
01:03:59She started to stockpile
01:04:01her own prescription medicine.
01:04:03She researched on the internet
01:04:05the effects that that would have had on people.
01:04:08She even tried it out on her parents
01:04:10in small doses over several occasions
01:04:12to see the effect it would have on them.
01:04:15We now know that John died
01:04:18from prescription medication.
01:04:20You can imagine how horrific
01:04:22it must have been for him
01:04:23thinking he was maybe falling ill.
01:04:26But then you also wonder
01:04:27was there any point
01:04:29that he asked himself
01:04:31why this was happening to him?
01:04:32And I think that is
01:04:34a difficult visual image to have.
01:04:38I used the fact my father had a drinking problem
01:04:41to poison his drinks
01:04:43with a cocktail of drugs.
01:04:45And I found him laying on his bed
01:04:47and he had passed away.
01:04:50We then heard
01:04:51she had also intended
01:04:52to kill her mother
01:04:53the same way
01:04:55but the quantities used
01:04:56hadn't quite been sufficient.
01:04:59So she told the police
01:05:02she'd got a knife
01:05:03and stabbed her mother.
01:05:06I did try and kill
01:05:07both of my parents with drugs.
01:05:09One worked
01:05:12and one did not.
01:05:16I'd given less drugs
01:05:18to my mother.
01:05:20I quietly went into the doorway
01:05:21and found her.
01:05:24As it turned out
01:05:25she was in a deep sleep.
01:05:28I pulled the door back
01:05:29closed again
01:05:30and went to get gloves
01:05:32a knife
01:05:33and a hammer.
01:05:34I went back in
01:05:37and she was facing away from me.
01:05:40I hesitated
01:05:41and then
01:05:42I carried out
01:05:43the act.
01:05:48I went back in
01:05:49with the hammer.
01:05:50She just looked so innocent.
01:05:52I hit a little at the side
01:05:54around the top of the cranium.
01:05:58I wasn't even hitting her properly.
01:06:01I was hitting like someone
01:06:02playing the xylophone band
01:06:04so badly.
01:06:05I didn't want her to suffer.
01:06:06I wanted her to pass quickly
01:06:08like my father.
01:06:14It's difficult to read these notes
01:06:16without feeling some pain
01:06:17and putting yourself
01:06:18in the room
01:06:19of the victim.
01:06:21These good people
01:06:22went through
01:06:22some unspeakable pain.
01:06:25It's awful.
01:06:26It doesn't bear thinking about.
01:06:28It was a
01:06:29cold,
01:06:31calculated act
01:06:32and she quite openly
01:06:33admitted
01:06:34that she has done this.
01:06:37No one person
01:06:38could get inside
01:06:39the mind of a murderer
01:06:40despite all these
01:06:41self-professed experts.
01:06:43But the fact is
01:06:44she is a cold-hearted killer.
01:06:46She is bad,
01:06:48not mad.
01:06:49She knows exactly
01:06:50what she's doing.
01:06:51I think it's fair to say
01:06:56that people that knew Virginia
01:06:58thought that there was
01:06:58something a little bit odd
01:07:00about her and her behaviour.
01:07:02But as a forensic psychiatrist,
01:07:04I can categorically say
01:07:05that that is not the same
01:07:07as having a severe mental illness
01:07:09that might affect
01:07:10your culpability.
01:07:12The very fact
01:07:13that Virginia
01:07:13had pre-planned
01:07:15both murders
01:07:16quite effectively
01:07:17is a strong indication
01:07:19to me that she knew
01:07:20exactly what she was doing.
01:07:22We know that she stockpiled
01:07:23her own medication
01:07:24to use as poison.
01:07:26She actually physically
01:07:26went to get a knife
01:07:28to use.
01:07:29So it's somebody
01:07:30that's got forethought.
01:07:46What the forensic psychiatrist
01:07:48is really looking for
01:07:49is symptoms
01:07:50of potential mental illness
01:07:52to see if this affects
01:07:53their criminal culpability
01:07:55or not.
01:07:56And the patients
01:07:56that meet this threshold
01:07:58usually have
01:07:59very intense,
01:08:01life-changing symptoms
01:08:02like hearing voices
01:08:04or paranoid delusions
01:08:05and their out-of-touch
01:08:07of reality.
01:08:08But in this case,
01:08:10after psychiatric evaluation,
01:08:12the court experts
01:08:13determined that Virginia
01:08:15didn't meet the threshold
01:08:17for diminished responsibility,
01:08:19which in layman's terms
01:08:20means that she didn't have
01:08:22a mental impairment.
01:08:29their six-woman,
01:08:48who's previously admitted
01:08:50murdering her parents
01:08:51after their bodies
01:08:52were found at the family home
01:08:53in Great Baddow
01:08:54is due to be sentenced
01:08:55at Chelmsford Crown Court today.
01:08:58The atmosphere in the courtroom
01:09:00was one of mostly anticipation,
01:09:03but also wonder
01:09:05as to what details
01:09:06we're about to hear.
01:09:08There was just a hush
01:09:10amongst people
01:09:10as they were waiting
01:09:11for the judge to arrive
01:09:13and also for Virginia
01:09:14to be brought into
01:09:15the secure dock.
01:09:17I was called into court
01:09:18and simply asked
01:09:19to state my name
01:09:20and yes
01:09:21to a couple of statements.
01:09:23Then details of the case
01:09:25were read out
01:09:25by the prosecution.
01:09:26We could see up close
01:09:39every movement,
01:09:40every twitch of emotion
01:09:42from Virginia
01:09:43as all of the details
01:09:44of the case
01:09:45were read to the court.
01:09:47For the vast majority
01:09:48of the sentencing hearing,
01:09:50Virginia didn't show
01:09:51any sort of emotion
01:09:53apart from when there were
01:09:54some finer details
01:09:56being read about
01:09:57the methods
01:09:58in which she'd killed
01:09:59her mother.
01:10:00The evidence that I heard
01:10:01in the morning
01:10:01surrounding my mother's death
01:10:03made me cry in court.
01:10:06I know how wrong
01:10:07what I did was
01:10:08and I'm guilty
01:10:09and remorseful for this,
01:10:12but it is something
01:10:13that is very hard
01:10:14to go over emotionally.
01:10:17These really were
01:10:18very graphic details
01:10:20that we heard
01:10:21in sentencing,
01:10:23but we also heard
01:10:25about what her mother
01:10:26motivation had been.
01:10:28The evidence presented
01:10:29in court painted
01:10:31a picture of a very
01:10:32manipulative and devious woman.
01:10:35During this investigation,
01:10:37there had been those
01:10:38who thought perhaps
01:10:40her upbringing
01:10:41may have played a part,
01:10:42but it became clear
01:10:44that the prosecution
01:10:46were focusing
01:10:47on a financial motive
01:10:48for this crime.
01:11:11The motivation
01:11:12in relation to this murder,
01:11:14from my point of view
01:11:16is money.
01:11:18Her whole aim
01:11:20was to obtain money
01:11:21from her dead parents.
01:11:23She needed to get them
01:11:25out of the way
01:11:25in order to maintain
01:11:26a lifestyle
01:11:27that she'd become
01:11:27accustomed to
01:11:28through her gambling
01:11:29and lifestyle in general.
01:11:32Now, anybody
01:11:33that would kill
01:11:34a family member
01:11:36for their pension
01:11:37is a very,
01:11:40very evil person.
01:11:41understandably,
01:11:57Virginia's siblings
01:11:58don't want
01:11:58public attention,
01:11:59so they're protected
01:12:01by a court order,
01:12:03which is a legal ruling
01:12:04that their identities
01:12:06shouldn't be uncovered.
01:12:08But at the same time,
01:12:10they wanted to submit
01:12:11statements
01:12:12that could be read out
01:12:13in court.
01:12:14It is impossible
01:12:16to describe
01:12:16the prolonged pain
01:12:18Virginia has inflicted.
01:12:20It is impossible
01:12:21to process
01:12:22such a senseless crime.
01:12:24Virginia's prolific lies,
01:12:26laziness and greed
01:12:28are such senseless reasons
01:12:30for killing our parents.
01:12:32Virginia's siblings
01:12:33have been through
01:12:34two tragedies, really.
01:12:36There's the horrific death
01:12:37of their parents
01:12:38and then just having
01:12:40to appreciate
01:12:41and understand
01:12:41that it was caused
01:12:42by their own sister
01:12:43and her general
01:12:44web of deceit.
01:12:49One of the things
01:12:50revealed at sentencing
01:12:51is the fact
01:12:52that Virginia
01:12:52had tried to make sure
01:12:54that the family
01:12:55are unable to maintain
01:12:56any form of communication
01:12:58with their nearest
01:13:01and dearest.
01:13:02It became quite clear
01:13:04during sentencing
01:13:05that Virginia
01:13:06was ruthless
01:13:08in her deception.
01:13:10She pretended
01:13:11to be her mother
01:13:12and her father.
01:13:13She sent numerous texts
01:13:15to people
01:13:15trying to rebuff
01:13:17any visits.
01:13:18She's contacted
01:13:20her siblings,
01:13:20she's texted
01:13:21using her mother's names,
01:13:23she's hoodwinked
01:13:24her uncle,
01:13:25her auntie.
01:13:26The court heard
01:13:27that she had
01:13:28145 separate SIM cards
01:13:31with which she used
01:13:31to message her sisters
01:13:33and also other relatives
01:13:34as well.
01:13:35The very sad thing
01:13:36for her sisters
01:13:37was that these messages
01:13:39would suggest
01:13:40that John and Lois
01:13:41no longer wanted
01:13:42to see them.
01:13:43That must have been
01:13:44absolutely awful.
01:13:46In a sinister twist
01:13:47to this case,
01:13:48Virginia pretended
01:13:49to be her mother
01:13:50by making a phone call
01:13:52to one of her siblings.
01:13:54She altered her voice
01:13:56sufficiently
01:13:57to convince her sibling
01:13:59that she was Lois.
01:14:02Virginia had pretended
01:14:04to be my parents
01:14:05and communicated
01:14:06with me in that role
01:14:07on almost a daily basis.
01:14:10This grotesque intrusion
01:14:12is made incredibly painful
01:14:14by the messages sent to me
01:14:15purporting to be my parents
01:14:17that were at times hurtful.
01:14:20This and the ridiculous excuses
01:14:22for not seeing me
01:14:23left me with the feeling
01:14:25of being unvalued
01:14:26as their child,
01:14:27that my own parents
01:14:28didn't want to see me.
01:14:31To have been manipulated
01:14:32and deceived
01:14:33so significantly
01:14:34and in such a prolonged way
01:14:36has been truly shocking.
01:14:38When you're listening
01:14:41to all of these details
01:14:42it's difficult
01:14:43not to feel
01:14:44shocked by
01:14:45the manipulation
01:14:46that she embarked on.
01:14:48You can't imagine
01:14:50what the family
01:14:51would have been going through
01:14:52to experience that
01:14:53and to have been
01:14:55led on such
01:14:56a journey of lies.
01:14:58Virginia lied repeatedly
01:15:00over such a long period
01:15:01of time
01:15:01but
01:15:02Virginia's sibling statements
01:15:04corroborated
01:15:05some of what
01:15:06Virginia was saying.
01:15:08Their mother
01:15:08did have mental health issues
01:15:10and their father
01:15:11did have problems
01:15:12with alcohol.
01:15:13However,
01:15:14one thing that appears
01:15:15to be categorically
01:15:16contradicted
01:15:17is whether or not
01:15:19Virginia
01:15:19was physically abused.
01:15:23Virginia had the audacity
01:15:25to lie even more
01:15:26and try to accuse
01:15:27our parents
01:15:28of behaving
01:15:29in the most awful way
01:15:30which is totally
01:15:31untrue.
01:15:33Her lies
01:15:34about the whole family
01:15:35are a disgusting
01:15:36untrue misrepresentation.
01:15:40Virginia seemed
01:15:41to be very keen
01:15:41to place herself
01:15:42as the victim
01:15:43but when there is
01:15:45physical abuse
01:15:46or domestic violence
01:15:48often there is
01:15:49a trail of evidence
01:15:51but as far as we're aware
01:15:52there is no such
01:15:53police record
01:15:54within this family
01:15:55and to me
01:15:56this is really important
01:15:57because that kind of
01:15:59underpins
01:15:59all of Virginia's
01:16:01reasoning
01:16:01and explanation
01:16:02of what she did.
01:16:05I was not trapped
01:16:06physically
01:16:07but was emotionally trapped.
01:16:10The problems
01:16:11were behind closed doors
01:16:12at Pump Hill.
01:16:14My siblings
01:16:14had their own lives
01:16:15to live
01:16:16and there was no one
01:16:18else behind me
01:16:18to support
01:16:19or give respite.
01:16:20but I chose myself
01:16:24over my parents
01:16:25wrongfully.
01:16:29Having read the multiple
01:16:30letters that Virginia
01:16:31wrote
01:16:32it feels
01:16:34like she's trying
01:16:35to gain sympathy
01:16:36from the public.
01:16:37The profile
01:16:39that I'm building
01:16:40of Virginia
01:16:41is that she's
01:16:42willing to do
01:16:43almost anything
01:16:44for her own motivations
01:16:46and the court experts
01:16:49determined
01:16:49that Virginia
01:16:50had a neurodevelopmental
01:16:53disorder
01:16:53as well as traits
01:16:54of psychopathy.
01:16:56In terms
01:16:57of the psychopathic
01:16:58traits
01:16:59this would include
01:17:00a lack of empathy
01:17:01not caring
01:17:03about the rights
01:17:04of other people
01:17:04impulsivity
01:17:06criminal versatility
01:17:07and also being
01:17:08quite cunning
01:17:09and manipulative.
01:17:11And it's the
01:17:12psychopathic traits
01:17:13that drove her
01:17:13to kill her parents.
01:17:15When I heard
01:17:3536 years
01:17:36being read out
01:17:36I told the lady
01:17:38next to me
01:17:38in the dock
01:17:39that I should have
01:17:39got life
01:17:40without parole.
01:17:42Not only do I think
01:17:43I deserved life
01:17:44without parole
01:17:45but felt that
01:17:46even that
01:17:47was not punishment
01:17:47enough to ease
01:17:49my guilt
01:17:49or remorse
01:17:50even mildly.
01:17:53I have made
01:17:54so many mistakes
01:17:55in my life
01:17:56through deception
01:17:57secrecy
01:17:58and self-sabotage.
01:18:01The worst of all
01:18:02is the crime
01:18:03that I killed
01:18:03my parents.
01:18:07I wish my siblings
01:18:08healing
01:18:08and I'm glad
01:18:10that they have
01:18:10each other.
01:18:12I hope that in time
01:18:12they are all able
01:18:13to be happy again
01:18:14and be a closer
01:18:16family than it was
01:18:17when I was part
01:18:17of it.
01:18:19I will try
01:18:20and be a better
01:18:20person in prison
01:18:21and make a life
01:18:22of sorts.
01:18:24I've been here
01:18:25for one year
01:18:25and four months
01:18:26and I am happier
01:18:28and more myself
01:18:29in prison
01:18:29than I was able
01:18:30to be around
01:18:31people on the outside
01:18:32and my family.
01:18:35I also thank you
01:18:36for reading this letter.
01:18:39Kind regards,
01:18:39Virginia.
01:18:45I can't get around
01:18:47my head
01:18:47that somebody
01:18:49would
01:18:49do what she
01:18:51did
01:18:52for some
01:18:54pensions
01:18:55and for
01:18:56a little bit
01:18:57of money.
01:18:58It just
01:18:58doesn't make sense
01:19:01to me.
01:19:04I have
01:19:05for a long
01:19:06time
01:19:07thought about
01:19:08were we really
01:19:08friends, you know,
01:19:10because she was
01:19:12living this
01:19:13other life,
01:19:16trying to divert
01:19:17everybody away
01:19:18from what really
01:19:20was going on.
01:19:24But I hear
01:19:25she's happy
01:19:25and she's
01:19:27flourishing
01:19:28and I'm glad
01:19:32because I think
01:19:33it's probably
01:19:36the right
01:19:36environment
01:19:37for her.
01:19:39It's the peace
01:19:40that she said
01:19:42she wanted
01:19:42and I'm glad
01:19:44she's got that.
01:19:44with
01:19:59no
01:20:09No
01:20:10No
01:20:11No
01:20:12No
01:20:13No
01:20:14You
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