- 2 months ago
Lieutenant General (retired) Kanwal Jeet Singh Dhillon reiterated Defence Minister Rajnath Singh’s warning to Pakistan that the road to Karachi, which is the neighbouring country’s economic capital and its heartbeat, goes through Sir Creek in Gujarat and that Islamabad must not forget it.
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00:00the scorecard nine terror bases including bahawalpur and muridke 11 air bases including
00:07noor khan and we'll tell you the significance of all the 11 air bases that have been targeted
00:11and holes punched through six radar stations and other sensitive military installations
00:18to talk about operation sindoor and the untold stories of india's deep strikes in pakistan with
00:24me is lieutenant general kjs dylan general tiny dylan who's just written a book on operation
00:29sindoor and is talking to us at a time when tensions between india and pakistan are again on a high
00:37with defense minister rajnath singh saying that a road to karachi passes through the creek general
00:43welcome on the chakravue podcast thank you gaurav and uh good day to you and good day to all your
00:49viewers and thank you for having me over for this show general what is your reading of defense
00:54minister rajnath singh saying that a road to karachi passes through the creek and pakistan
00:59must never forget this after oppression sindoor the details of which are there in the book and
01:05also they are emerging slowly and slowly karachi is pakistan's heartbeat karachi is pakistan's
01:12economic capital and karachi is vulnerable to indian interjection or indian attacks from sea as well
01:20also from land so what honorable rakshamantri ji has said in case pakistan tries anything like
01:27phil gam or pulwama again then they should not forget that karachi is vulnerable and from the
01:34sur creek area which is again a bone of contention and pakistan claims if the road to karachi passes
01:40to sur creek is not only karachi not only sur creek the both can be handled in one go and that
01:47vulnerability of pakistan must never forget and we know it and we have the strength
01:51to achieve it you also heard general upendra dhivedi who was talking to the troops uh indicating that
01:58uh god willing you know words to the effect then the troops will be across very soon now do you
02:07visualize war clouds on the horizon again operation sindoor 1.0 was conducted with a very clear-cut aim
02:16which we wanted to achieve that was to hit terror targets which caused palgam so that was our
02:24retaliation to palgam and hit only the terror targets our intention was not to hit any military
02:29installation no civilian casualties and no escalation now with that aim when the nations go to war they
02:37have a very well defined aim so operation sindoor as you said within 88 hours in spite of having the
02:43upper hand in spite of their air defense being down the air force being grounded and we hitting their
02:4811 air bases with impunity in spite of being in that situation within 88 hours when two nuclear powers
02:56went to war for the first time in the history in spite of being in that situation india showed restraint
03:03india had the might india had the power to hit more hit harder hit deeper okay but we showed restraint
03:10being a responsible nuclear state being a responsible country in the community of nations
03:16being a responsible member of the international arena so we will not show this restraint in case it comes
03:25to oppression sindoor 2.0 that is what the army chief general opender the very clearly listed out
03:32because you know when you are a responsible nuclear weapon state but you are dealing with a rogue state
03:38then you're being responsible is actually seen as weakness isn't it uh and shut he shut him
03:44samachar it just hit him where it hurts him in the manner in which it hurts him because
03:48in your long career and in this book on an operation sindoor you've actually chronicled
03:54pakistani terror right from 1947 from the tribal raiders coming into jammu kashmir to the decade of
04:001980s spreading terror in punjab 1990s in kashmir uh the attack on parliament uh operation
04:06parakram and then jnk and the 2611 all of that we've suffered pakistani terror so long why do we
04:13show restraint now operation sindoor was an opportunity when india hit nine terror bases
04:19six radar stations 11 air bases we should have hit all 18.
04:23guru i understand the sentiments which you are expressing and those are also the sentiments
04:28of the nation of all our citizens probably mine also but again at the cost of repetition i will
04:34say the responsible nuclear powers they act in a very responsible manner we had a declared aim of
04:43hitting the terror targets which we did which we did and once we achieved that declared aim we did
04:48not want an escalation between two nuclear states and we did not want instability in the south asian
04:53region having said that once pakistan retaliated we again hit their 11 air bases and their defense
04:59systems and what have you and the aircrafts that was the message to pakistan okay don't go any further
05:06otherwise you will get unacceptable punishment now pakistan understood that pakistan understood it and
05:15because any long war is in india's favor because of our military might because of economic might
05:21because of our resilience and our capability to absorb the war efforts so any war going beyond a
05:28particular number of days keeps getting into india's favor because pakistan's economy cannot sustain a
05:34long war pakistan's war wastage reserves cannot sustain a long war we have the depth in economy and in
05:42military so when on fourth day at 3 35 p.m on 10th may pakistan came begging for a ceasefire and we from the
05:50position of strength in spite of being in a position where we could hit harder we could hit deeper we could
05:56destroy everything we acted in a very responsible manner as i said being a responsible nuclear state we accepted their
06:03request for ceasefire but that was victory that was victory yeah i'll come to the point of explaining
06:09parameters of victory because in the good old days victory would have meant uh either taking territory uh or taking
06:14taking prisoners of war uh or uh you know the world should acknowledge that yes you won here we know we've
06:22won but yet pakistan claims it has won how do you see that see agora like very rightly said in good old days
06:31it was anyone who has captured more territory of the other party was supposed to be declared a winner like in
06:38bangladesh 1971 when 93 000 prisoners of war surrendered i'm not talking about captured capturing
06:45is a military thing you went down fighting and the enemy captures you it's okay like group captain
06:51he did not surrender whereas in east pakistan 93 000 soldiers surrendered laid down their weapons saluted
06:59signed a document of surrender so that is victory here in this war oppression sindoor war a very
07:06different thing happened not a single soldier or a single tank or a single gun cross the international
07:13boundary or the line of control now how do you define victory in this case now i will give out
07:19certain parameters which will define victory in a war like oppression sindoor when we at our own will hit nine
07:26targets with precision and we said we do not want escalation this was a retaliation to your act of
07:33terrorism in power now that was victory with strength but then he responded then they responded
07:39and when we hit their 11 air bases their air defense could not do anything their air force could
07:44not do anything none of our missiles were intercepted by any of their military hardware now that was
07:51victory on day four when they went running to saudi arabia and america asking for intervening for
07:58ceasefire now that was victory when they were told it's a bilateral you speak directly to india when
08:04their dgmo picks up a phone calls up our dgmo and begs for a ceasefire when he begs for a ceasefire and
08:11we being in the position which we were a position of causing more damage and more harm to pakistan
08:17militarily and economically we being a responsible person we accepted that request for ceasefire now that
08:24was victory now this is what the victory in this particular circumstances short of just signing
08:30a document to say okay we request for ceasefire the recordings in the dgmo office of all the talks
08:37which happen so victory can be measured in very many ways and these are hard victories so you said
08:43operation sindoor was a hard victory if we had continued to hit him longer let's say 24 hours longer 48 hours
08:51longer we would have pulverized him even more you know because now when pakistan in all caps
08:58responds pakistan or you know there's a terminology that they use you know a country without honor i can
09:07well understand that today they're responding to us in all caps saying we will hit we showed restraint
09:12now we will hit 2000 kilometers deep inside you so we won but within three months he's barking again
09:19whatever they're saying like asim munir said we will take down half the world with us in a nuclear
09:25strike he said we'll hit their dams no and now the 2000 kilometer deep all these weapon systems
09:31or military hardware was there with them during operation sundoor so why couldn't they do it that
09:35time what is what is they were not allowed to do it that time we had pressed them so badly their air
09:41defense the air force and we know exactly what is stored where and everything is within our range
09:47so can you explain that we had pressed them and we'd we'd sorted them out in operation sindoor can
09:54you explain that to our viewers see when we have the we select the nine terror targets and we hit them
09:59with such precision and such weapon systems which penetrate the roof which penetrate the floor and go and
10:06explode in the basement now that is the accuracy of intelligence that is the accuracy of the precision
10:12weapon systems we matched with the target and then when we hit their 11 air bases one air base where
10:18there are two air strips which are crossing like this and we hit at the center of that intersection
10:24making both the air strips non-operational and when we hit their aircrafts in the air at the ranges
10:31beyond 300 kilometers and all their air bases which are facing india are within 300 kilometers from
10:38international boundary when their aerial platform gets hit at 300 kilometers from international boundary
10:45their pilots refuse to get airborne their air defense was not able to intercept our missiles
10:50and when we hit the 11 air bases they realize if the war has to continue there will be unacceptable
10:57damage which will be caused to pakistan's military hardware and economic infrastructure that pakistan
11:04will not be able to rise from the rebels so that is where they begged they begged for ceasefire and that
11:11is when in spite of being in a position to decimate the enemy once and for all we showed restraint we
11:18showed strategic restraint we showed military restraint we showed democratic restraint okay because of the
11:24responsibility we have as a democratic country as a nuclear power as a one-sixth of the world so why did
11:31it take the air chief to give out details of course we knew that uh uh advanced early warning and
11:38airborne command and control system or a sigint aircraft signal intelligence aircraft was shot 320 kilometers
11:44in the sky so they've had fatalities there uh four to five f-16s slash jf-17s destroyed on ground five to
11:53six lost in the air including f-16s that's a huge loss for pakistan pakistan day one has been saying
12:01six six six six to our fighters why did we have to wait three months to then say you've lost 12 or
12:0713 or 14 aircraft on ground and in air in my previous answer i used the word responsible
12:14responsible nuclear state responsible democracy responsible military we don't make claims where we
12:20don't have the evidence or proof to support our claims pakistan keeps saying their prime minister said
12:25five zero then he said six zero in uh u.n he goes and says seven indian jets down by end of the year
12:32they will reach the figure of 30 or 40 by this rate so we do not make claims where there are no
12:38videographic evidence or a photographic evidence or a satellite imagery evidence or the evidence of
12:43rubbles whereas they can keep making whatever claims not a single claim is spotted by any evidence
12:49so our air chief the point which you made what took so long for the air chief to come and say
12:54that these are our targets or these were our achievements or these were our kills
13:00see when war is there when you are crossing the international boundary on ground and in air
13:05you go and strike a particular place the same aircraft on its way back or then only takes a picture of
13:11the target damage that is called post strike damage assessment or a next sortie goes and picks up the
13:18image of that area and that is a post strike damage assessment which can be analyzed and then shared
13:23with the world or media if you want to in this case no aircraft crossed the line of control or
13:28international boundary so there were no post strike damage assessment pictures from the same aircraft
13:33or the next aircraft sorry images came from satellite imagery those had to be analyzed they had to be
13:39corroborated by multiple sources and when we have to analyze we have to corroborate with multiple sources
13:46as also the cameras fitted on the projectiles which went and hit it takes time to you know gather all this
13:52intelligence and that is what air chiefs use the word and he says that pakistan wants to know the
14:00results they must do it but pakistan is just making claims without any evidence so we being a responsible
14:07military responsible air force responsible army responsible country okay we do not make claims unless
14:13they're supported by evidence and one more most pertinent point which your viewers must know
14:18none of our claims has been refuted by anyone across the world including pakistan that means our claims
14:25are on solid footing and as a responsible nation we will not make a claim unless it is supported
14:31does this also indicate that while this is a war that was fought on ground there is one aspect of
14:38information war and we'll talk about that in a little while there is also a war of arms lobbies
14:46that india had a brahmo supersonic cruise missile that's india and russia the s-400 that's russian the
14:53rafales that are french the su-30 mki is mated with brahmo again india russia uh our entire akash
15:00system which is indigenous indigenous and and many other indigenous weapons that were used versus the
15:08chinese weapons and the f-16s so is it the case that the f-16 lobby and the chinese lobby did better
15:17than the rafale the russian and the indian arms manufacturers what i explained this aspect of
15:25lobbying and narrative building and counter narratives and war of narratives so battle of narrative
15:29in my book in great detail i've also explained akash teer which you just referred to the indigenous
15:35system in great detail again in the book for the anyway now coming to question which you're asking
15:41the battle of narrative was not being fought on the india pakistan border as to how many
15:48you know targets destroyed how many air bases destroyed or how many weapon systems you lost or we
15:54lost the battle of narrative was being built somewhere else like as you said on indian side
15:59there were indigenous weapon systems they were indian joint venture weapon system the russian weapon
16:05system french weapon system other side was chinese radars chinese missiles chinese aircrafts the turkish
16:11drones and the western bloc aircrafts which are only there on the inventory now point to mention or
16:18understand here is in case india is declared outright winner which it was when the enemy comes to you
16:25begging for ceasefire that means you are winning if india was declared outright winner all the orders
16:31from third world countries for the defense hardware for the military hardware would fall in the lap of
16:36indian weapons russian weapons and french weapons and chinese and turkish and others will lose their
16:44you know customers who are wanting to buy military hardware and military hardware is a very very big market
16:51so is the military lobby the defense establishment or defense industry lobby so they didn't want
16:58the outright winner attack to go to india so their narrative building was this all this 506070 without
17:06any shred of evidence is a narrative which was built by this arms lobby and the number of physical
17:12casualties which have happened in pakistan and number of casualties on the runway number of aircraft
17:17casualties in the air all these are indications with proof the book has got all the details as to
17:23who won who lost in fact the subject of who won who lost so that lobby was playing this narrative game
17:29and that is a thing which is going to stay for future wars also and we must do our narrative building
17:37more transparently more strongly more effectively there's one aspect i want to refer to that's there in
17:43your book operation sindoor the untold story of india's deep strikes and i'd finger you know put this
17:50here so that i could come to this pakistan accepts military casualties yes i'd covered the kargil war in
17:561999 when they didn't and they don't accept their bodies at lc pretty frequently and and who knows that
18:03better than you i want to focus on this line sir where you've said ever since operation sindoor
18:09hostilities seized on 10th may pakistan has been trying to hide the casualties that suffered during
18:14the operation but a supposedly triumphant list of gallantry awards published by pakistan's sama tv on
18:22august 14 on pakistan's independence day has instead turned into a grim reminder of india's devastating
18:31realization of the pehalgaam retaliation for the pehalgaam massacre the channel revealed the names of
18:36138 138 pakistan army personnel honored posthumously all suffered all suffix to the title shaheed explain
18:48this sir 138 shaheeds uh post uh operation sindoor what does this show see every country on the
18:56independence day or like a republic day we publish the list of gallantry awards some posthumously some with
19:03serving now in this case on 14th of august 2025 pakistan declared 138 gallantry awards posthumously
19:12means the skilled soldiers and officers the names are there the awards which they have been given
19:16that they're in the book and those 138 so fixed with shaheed was published by sama tv of pakistan and
19:24later on taken off when the flag came now if 138 killed soldiers and officers have been awarded a
19:31gallantry award and there are some who are not awarded in spite of getting killed in the battle
19:36now you can estimate the number of physical casualties which would have happened during
19:41operation sundoor on pakistan side the serving military personal there's one aspect of operation
19:47sindoor uh not many people know about and that's about indian army's punitive fire assaults at the line
19:55of control sir there was an incident that took place in lipa valley and this is where pakistan suffered
20:01massive casualties what can you tell us about what happened at at uh at the lipa valley when india
20:07carried out a fire assault i have spent my lifetime there starting with captain and then as a core
20:12commander lipa valley is an about our forces are on shamshabari which overlooks the lipa valley and there are
20:21two sides fingers which are going on which are looking down into lipa valley and lipa valley
20:26happens to be a brigade headquarter of pakistan army so it is easy to look at the target from multiple
20:34observation posts so number of observation posts who can correct a fire to bring it effectively on
20:41the center of the target that advantage is with india it is similarly in many other places so since we
20:46are talking about particular area so i'm giving that particular so when different guns from various
20:52directions the firing on to the objective and various observation posts can physically see and correct
20:57the fire and that means the effectiveness of the fire on the target is the maximum and this fire
21:04assault in lipa valley has taken maximum physical casualties of pakistan soldiers and officers and
21:12there's a specific reason for it and a particular brigadier of pakistan army whom army chief quoted
21:19when he was releasing this book oppression sundoor the untold story of india's deep strikes inside
21:24pakistan army chiefs quoted that brigadier diska intercept liya whose intercept we had taken
21:33we are visualizing uh tension with pakistan on the horizon each time pakistan is weak it will try and
21:40destabilize india or try a terror attack in india to unite their own country and that actually shows
21:46the nature of the beast that india is dealing with just to survive he has to bleed india jen
21:53dhillan as always so joining me on this chuck review special broadcast many thanks thank you
21:58god of and thank you to the viewers and jen jen jen sir
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