Can Triple H Save WWE? AEW WrestleDream 2025 Predictions!

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00:00:00hello and welcome to the wrestle talk podcast here every tuesday and friday and next week coming

00:00:16monday as well because that's when we'll be covering everything aew wrestle dream

00:00:20which we have predictions on for this very show if you haven't subscribed already please do

00:00:25wherever you get your podcasts from it could be on youtube it could be on spotify it could be on

00:00:30apple podcasts and exciting news everybody this one is brought to you by sabu the documentary

00:00:40yeah it's a plug we've finally worked out that we can use the qr code running gag as a plug

00:00:46spot yeah if you head on over to patreon.com forward slash wrestle talk uh you can watch

00:00:51the sabu documentary over on there yeah and if you there's this fascinating scene i'm obsessed by

00:00:56where sabu in his hotel room where there's nobody else it's just a camera filming him to get some

00:01:03b-roll when i think he's going to bed or waking up it's him getting up in the morning correct

00:01:08and he struggles with the coffee machine he's working the coffee machine literally working

00:01:13working being the the heavy lifting word there he gets some coffee granules and it looks like

00:01:20he snorts the coffee granules now you be you watch the film you be the judge of if that actually

00:01:26happens a lot of debate in the office and with our new friend rob van dam over whether that actually

00:01:31happened but those coffee granules they form a qr code

00:01:36either on the floor or up his nose you can find the qr code if you scan them

00:01:43it will take you to this very podcast what you're saying is because obviously i've been off for a couple

00:01:49of days so i've not been around for for these machinations of the deal but what you're saying

00:01:53is on screen if you watch the documentary no no oh sorry not on screen no in that hotel room right

00:01:59okay so you got to go to that hotel room find the room that sabu was staying in and then find the

00:02:05coffee granules there because luke if it was on the documentary something that people have already

00:02:12gone to our patreon of course they're going to listen to this podcast well that's what i was asking

00:02:17no we're getting new people new people who use that specific room in the hotel in las vegas

00:02:23that makes sense but yeah also very good documentary maybe maybe we'll talk about a bit later when we

00:02:28come to some recommendations yeah but uh we have on on this show we're covering aew dynamite and

00:02:33those wrestle dream predictions but we're going to be kicking things off talking about the seth

00:02:39rollins injury and how triple h can kind of use this to his benefit in a way and whether or not

00:02:47this is actually going to create this real exciting creative shift within the company that's been sore

00:02:53i would argue been sorely needed over the last few months it's so weird isn't it because this this

00:02:58podcast this episode is sort of an answer to or a suggested answer to an episode we did two weeks ago

00:03:06which is is triple h actually a good booker because there's this theory which i don't particularly

00:03:14subscribe to but there's a theory out there that triple h and the last two three years of wwe has been

00:03:20so good because that was all stuff set up by vince mcmahon yeah i don't think vince was a good booker near the

00:03:26end i think it's just insane that people are even thinking that no i i think the argument or the the thing we

00:03:33came to was that a lot of the bloodline stuff which is kind of heralded as the greatest thing

00:03:38that wwe have done was while triple h is head of creative it was really people like uh paul hayman

00:03:44and roman reigns that were really in the weeds on the creative of that storyline and i think what we

00:03:49said was that he's not a he's not creative he's just head of creative i would also add the rock the

00:03:55the chaos element of the rock in the build to wrestlemania 40 is what made that really special

00:04:01because if we had triple h's original plan well yeah i mean yeah if we'd had triple h's original

00:04:07plan which we sort of did get in the end which was cody winning um what we sort of had the rock was

00:04:12accidentally turning himself heel by coming in and being like guys i think i should be the main event

00:04:16of wrestlemania actually well i've seen the smashing machine now have you yes yeah yeah it's fine

00:04:22i like it i think it's a good movie i don't know why they made a movie about it i think the

00:04:32performances are good the direction's great i love benny safty's visual style but uh but it's not

00:04:38really a compelling story i have been blown away by the amount of coverage that film not doing well

00:04:45the box office has gotten because a what did you expect and b everyone's like is this gonna hurt

00:04:52the rock no it's not gonna hurt the rock in any way this was never about getting good money at the

00:04:57box office this is about getting him an oscar that's the only reason that he's going down this

00:05:02direction he wants to win an oscar now or even a supporting oscar not supporting but uh an oscar

00:05:07nomination if he can get an oscar nomination that's that's great if he can win even better it's

00:05:12like this did not need to make 200 million dollars on its opening weekend and you know what it will

00:05:17very likely win an oscar for makeup yeah i because it's incredible what i think he will get a nomination

00:05:24i think at the very least he will definitely get a nomination crowded crowded men's roster this year

00:05:30on the academy awards they can't all they can't all main event wrestlemania well maybe they'll do what

00:05:36they did with film and they'll just up it to 10 nominations uh but the god where were we the

00:05:42rock triple h is triple h actually a good booker and yes is he a good booker or is he a head of

00:05:47creative who picks other people's ideas i think definitely as as a showrunner if we envision him

00:05:52as a showrunner or like the kevin feige for the mcu i think a lot of his his preferences towards how

00:06:00wrestling is booked which is very slow very character based which i like but not all the time

00:06:07and i think that might be you know filtering down to people so he definitely has an imprint on

00:06:12creative but maybe he also needs some new creative voices in there yes to jolt him out of his comfort

00:06:19so that's where road dog comes in um yeah road dog you know a historically challenging force to triple

00:06:26h i think triple h is his glacial way of telling stories is fine if you are doing a 15 episode

00:06:36netflix series or actually even a 10 episode netflix series because you've just got 15 episodes and then

00:06:42it finishes when you've got to do 52 weeks a year every single year that is when the glacial pace of

00:06:50storytelling can just feel like so slow and a bit as dan layton always say you need get there when are

00:06:57we going to get there when are we going to get to the fireworks factory yeah i was thinking about this

00:07:01so this is a bit of a tangent but i was thinking about the smashing machine we just spoke about the

00:07:07smashing machine and last year on raw i think about september october time it felt like every week

00:07:17every week's episode was the climax had a proper main event that could be on a pay-per-view in any

00:07:24other era of a four-week story yes and there was this really good cadence of oh this feud began

00:07:33four weeks ago and now it's climaxing now a feud another feud began three weeks ago that'll be the

00:07:39main event of next week so it felt like every week something was being set up paid off separate

00:07:45things all the time um you know that that bronson reed braun strowman kaiju war just kaiju war that

00:07:51was the main event of that week and that had a just a four-week build that's all it needed

00:07:56right and you had the build up to it but we've had nothing like that really this year like i think we

00:08:01have had some lower level mid-card feuds balian lyra valkyria i think is one of those examples of

00:08:09like that is a story that every single week is is progressing to the next thing and they're doing it

00:08:14through matches really so it's lyra versus roxanne one week then it's lyra versus rock

00:08:19rack out then it's bailey versus uh roxanne and bailey versus record and then you build to a tag

00:08:23team match and now that's done because roxanne despite being pinned in that match is going to be

00:08:28challenging for the world heavyweight championship yeah but then before then you had three four weeks

00:08:34of bailey vignettes which you know it all makes sense maybe that's how i would book things but i

00:08:38wouldn't book everything at that same pace but what we have now is a huge disruption to the very

00:08:46top of raw raw has been based around the vision this faction by seth rollins and paul hayman and

00:08:53brun breaker and bronson reid and that was set up the night after wrestlemania 41 that was essentially

00:08:59telling you that this is what this season's big story is going to be it's seth rollins brand new

00:09:04heel group and then we will build this until wrestlemania and then we'll see what happens

00:09:08when we go beyond wrestlemania now granted i've actually not been across all of this news because

00:09:13i've been off for the last couple of days so you might have to fill me in on a couple of the details

00:09:17going on here but one of the things i did think about this story when i did hear the news and then

00:09:23i saw that it's when they did the turn because i actually did a board game night uh on the day of

00:09:29the turn because it was like in the afternoon here at uk time i was in a board game night

00:09:32and i said on that like before i knew there was an injury aspect to this i said i think this is

00:09:37triple h responding to online criticism that his show moves at a glacial pace so he's just done

00:09:42something to shake things up what i'm thinking is now is actually an answer to something else we

00:09:47brought up on that show which is i don't think the triple h can pivot but we saw about there like

00:09:53tony khan whenever an injury comes up very bad at pivoting from decisions if something just a

00:09:58storyline just isn't working like this vision storyline has just not been firing on all

00:10:03cylinders for the last couple of months can he pivot from this i think what we're looking at here

00:10:08is the opportunity for triple h to show he can pivot because you're right this is an injury that is

00:10:15going to effectively end off all the plans he had building up to wrestlemania and now has to come up

00:10:20with a new and exciting creative plan and i think this is going to be the the jolt of spark and emotion

00:10:29that raw has needed yeah i i really like to compare it to the john cena heel turn because that i bet in

00:10:37triple h's head okay it's going to be a whole year and it's going to be seen and doing probably what we

00:10:42all thought that the big retirement matches and he wins the 17th world title maybe closer to the end

00:10:48of the year who knows but other external forces were like turn him heel and triple h did an economy

00:10:55booked a booked a great moment like that's that's just clear it with travis scott first and they booked

00:11:01this great moment but the follow-up was absolutely dire triple h most people can book a great moment

00:11:09it's the follow-up that's the problem um and yet the by summer slam they're just reverting john cena to

00:11:17the baby face that that's sort of a bit of evidence to me that triple h cannot successfully

00:11:22pivot in the long term he can in the moment but what we there's been a lot of reports about what

00:11:27were the original plans these weren't the original plans these were definitely the vision or the vision

00:11:33yeah the vision was formed on after mania then you had bron breaker and bronson reed and then we were

00:11:41going to go into seth versus cm punk at saturday night's main event who knows who wins there um

00:11:47but then it was going to be the vision versus the bloodline and friends at war games at the end of

00:11:54november yeah where crazily austin theory was going to join the vision and kind of brock lesnar

00:12:02yeah i think hayman likely would have brought lesnar in as part of like a we need to fill out this team

00:12:07so seth picked his guy paul picked his guy and bringing in brock would have probably sort of like

00:12:12started some of the fractures within seth and hayman and it certainly would have led to some

00:12:17fracture between bron and brock yes because the reported plan from a couple of months ago was

00:12:22it's going to be like when lesnar came back was it'll be bron versus brock at wrestlemania that

00:12:27that match has been discussed so you can use the war games match to sow the seeds to pay off in them

00:12:32having a wrestlemania match exactly or yeah yeah maybe bron yeah breaker lesnar at mania and the

00:12:39other only reported plan we had was seth versus roman at wrestlemania which completely makes sense

00:12:44because of what happened at this year's wrestlemania it felt like you do what happened at this year's

00:12:48wrestlemania where paul hayman uh turns his back on roman reigns and sides with seth rollins and then

00:12:55roman goes through bronson goes through and basically beats the the little baddies on his way to

00:13:00the main baddie so that he can face seth rollins at wrestlemania whether that's for the title or not

00:13:05which makes me think seth might retain against punk yeah saturday night's main event and it's roman

00:13:11winning the belt at mania he's already you know he's already in that mix with bronson reed i think

00:13:16then break is the next step then you're right then he goes to the seth and then roman beats seth

00:13:21this is my fantasy booking now the night after wrestlemania that's when the vision implodes because seth

00:13:28has lost his belt what way the vision implodes i think is quite interesting i think that could

00:13:33either be seth being turned on by bron just like we had on this week's raw or a bit of the batista

00:13:40evolution model of the of seth somehow blaming it on breaker they all beat up breaker and then breaker

00:13:48has to go through bronson go thrust in theory to get the seth rollins at summerslam yeah i think we

00:13:54probably would have had something similar to what we got that that's one of my gut feeling on this

00:13:57because it's the the whole point of putting this group together was to elevate bron and bronson so

00:14:04you do that by having bron be the first guy to do the turn turning him babyface and he then goes into

00:14:09a feud with seth rollins like that i think completely adds up so now we can't do the main

00:14:15part of this story which is seth rollins multiple parts of this we can't really do seth rollins

00:14:19he's the world heavyweight champion looks like he does have a shoulder injury he's gonna have

00:14:25shoulder surgery and he might miss wrestlemania yeah it could be a six month recovery time which

00:14:32means missing wrestlemania at this point probably um so seth like first off you've got to vacate the

00:14:40belt i think that's quite clear yep yeah you certainly can't hold on to it for you can't have it not at

00:14:45wrestlemania cm punk has already won the number one contendership for that that belt at saturday

00:14:52night's main event in like two weeks time yeah you put you've got to put bron in there bron is the

00:14:57guy who has taken out the champion in kayfabe seth doesn't have a shoulder shoulder injury sustained

00:15:04in the cody match in kayfabe seth is being written off tv because of the breaker attack yeah and the

00:15:10squash of bronson rey because yes ended the the tsunami onto him and breaker was the one who held up the

00:15:15title at the end of it so two things of note from there because obviously i've not had a chance to

00:15:19to talk about any of this not being on tuesday's episode um it's kind of ironic in a way that his

00:15:26world title run started with a fake injury and it is it's it's possibly going to end with a real

00:15:31injury um or is it a ruse or is it all they've learned their lessons we believe it this time it's

00:15:38part two of the work yeah we got him or it's a follow-up episode on unreal that's series three

00:15:43uh or the other my other note was like didn't bronson rey just beat roman reigns like why isn't

00:15:49he the guy that's all being pushed as why isn't he the one that's going to be going for the world

00:15:53title but a bron breaker looking to be the guy so maybe at saturday night's main event you're going

00:15:57to do bron breaker versus seth rollins uh sorry versus cm punk for the world the vacant world heavyweight

00:16:05championship punks earned the right to and to win that belt and breaker is going to be put in there as

00:16:11the guy who took out the former champion yeah i i would say that's where we're heading as well that

00:16:15makes the most sense um but my concern now is paul avek in the conservative booking oh bron we we've

00:16:25got a plan to build bron well i didn't have bron as a world heavyweight champion until wrestlemania 43

00:16:33you know the crowning moment in saudi arabia like we all want it to be is that right yeah that's 43

00:16:38yeah yeah next year's in vegas yeah we're so successful last time that we're we're up in the

00:16:43prices and doing it again so i i don't believe in triple h's original version that breaker was going

00:16:50to win the top title for at least a year possibly a year and a half from now i think maybe summerslam

00:16:58like maybe he would have won the title by summerslam but that means he's facing roman at summerslam

00:17:03yeah seems way too quick for me buddy but yeah okay summerslam so we would be fast tracking that

00:17:11by about 10 months yeah yeah i don't i think triple h is so so conservative in his booking because he's

00:17:20got the whole weight of the company on him if he puts a guy on the top position in raw and and it's

00:17:28not right then that is problematic very much for him particularly at a time when wwe isn't firing on

00:17:35all cylinders like it was before the safe choice unfortunately and dare i say the smart short-term

00:17:42choice is cm punk i disagree no no but like from a from a shareholders ratings mainstream perspective

00:17:50cm punk is way more popular than bron like that's i think that's irrefutable but bron i think we all

00:17:57agree is a smarter long-term choice there's risk there it might not work he might not be ready he

00:18:06might not be able to hold promo segments for 20 minutes opening every monday nor do we want him

00:18:11to he's got paul hayman right there but it is a risk he is unproven punk is proven i think it's the

00:18:17the actually thing you think is the smarter choice is to put it on bron breaker if only because what you

00:18:23currently have now and this is based on vibes looking at the comments on our videos is for

00:18:28the first time in a while i'd say arguably since wrestlemania the ending the closing moments of

00:18:34wrestlemania 41 of night one when you had this new heel faction forming where ron is formed with

00:18:40hayman and then you got breaker joining the group as well since that period of time this is the most

00:18:46people have been interested in the top title scene of monday night raw i think there's been being

00:18:51sort of uh the the worked injury angle of rollins but that was more a case of people like well we

00:18:56know it's a work and we're now just waiting for the the payoff although you know we had some comments

00:19:00being like i really did think it was a legit thing so it's been gunther it's been ju so it's been

00:19:06good it's not been like the top title scene has not been hugely interesting so looking at the comments

00:19:11people are like here's what i would do here's what i would do people are fancy booking what they would

00:19:15do and a lot of it is putting the title on breaker right my concern would be putting it on punk is

00:19:21too safe of an option and all of those people who are excited well i'll tune in when they do

00:19:27something a bit when i do something different then what you need now is not to do the safe option

00:19:32for me personally i think what this company needs now is not the safe option it needs the wild choice

00:19:40it needs the not safe option it needs to shake things up it needs to scrap up every single thing

00:19:45you had for wrestlemania build it from the ground up and do something new creative and different

00:19:50that is what raw for me needs right now it is not 45 year old cm punk with the world heavyweight

00:19:56championship again i don't know if he's 45 but he's it's 44 45 he's in his mid 40s but that i mean this

00:20:02is a this is a huge point as well like there's only there's only so many safe choices you can make

00:20:08because cm punk 44 john cena 48 and he's out at the end of this year gunther and jayuso these people

00:20:15who feel like fresh choices gunther's 38 jayuso's 40 well in his 40s i think we always make the joke

00:20:21that and i think that's the wilder one of these is damien priest feels like a new guy he's older than

00:20:26cody roads yeah brom breaker is 28 right now that like but if by attitude era standards that's sort of

00:20:35when you should be hitting your main event stride the rock was 26 when he won his first wwf title so you

00:20:42were making this point on the tuesday show with dan and while i completely agree with you i something

00:20:46that i don't think has was raised upon that show is that ages are different now than they were during

00:20:52the the attitude era like hulk hogan when he was on top in wcw felt like the oldest guy on the planet

00:20:59and he was in his mid 40s yeah like he does cm punk does not feel as old as hulk hogan felt in 1998

00:21:061999 um i withdraw when finn balor was 38 and he was the same age as davy boy when davy boy was having

00:21:15his his dreadful 1999 return to to the world wrestling federation you couldn't argue two

00:21:21completely different people in terms of who were the same age you know it's people have aged differently

00:21:27that's because the road is less tough there's less drugs uh going on in wrestling these days people

00:21:32are taking their their time with things so being 38 is not the you know foley retired when he was

00:21:38like 35 in 2000 because he was considered an old guy then i so i don't think being 35 or being 40 is old

00:21:45but what i do think you do need to do is invest in younger talent is that brian alvarez rant that he had

00:21:50recently of you need to stop waiting on these people you signed tyler bait when he was 19 years old

00:21:55and it's been a decade and you've done nothing with him and he's wasted a decade of potential

00:21:59just doing nothing in that company tyler bait yeah tyler bait oh tyler bait tyler breeze in my head

00:22:06i was like but he's not but you're right tyler bait's a really good example um i yeah of course

00:22:11people can wrestle later like aj's the extraordinary and he's he's still going uh late 40s i think maybe

00:22:1947 but it's it's not about that it's about variety that's what we keep coming back to it means you can

00:22:25have a 25 year old guy in the mix there's no actually there's no better way than that because

00:22:30then this 25 year old guy is getting the rub and the experience from all these established top stars

00:22:37right now there's such a gulf between the late 30s and late like that decade of 38 to 48 that is your

00:22:45main event scene right now you raise the point no world championship in wwe has been won by anyone

00:22:51born after 1990 i find that staggering yeah and it's just it's a real it's a really bad sign for

00:22:58the future of the company because they're not building new stars you feel like they're building

00:23:02new stars because they're like nxt's a thing and then we bring them up to the main roster there's this

00:23:07illusion of developing new talent but actually it's taking so long way longer than is historically

00:23:15proven to be a better success and guys like javon evans and uh leon slater who had have you seen the

00:23:22bound for glory message it's incredible like awesome i was watching the finish i was watching it yeah the

00:23:27two finishes i was watching it with a an ex-wrestler and he was like i've never seen someone run the

00:23:32ropes like that like you know when they bounce off the second top rope like that's that's that's the

00:23:39art moving forward yeah that is what what is more what is more of a trope of running the ropes and

00:23:46boom these 20 year olds have found a new way to run the ropes that's what should be injected into the

00:23:52wwe yeah and that that should be if it was a different era like you know you'd sort of like in

00:23:59the the late 90s say during the agile era when wwf was on the back foot and they were losing in the war

00:24:05to wcw that is when they would have taken those risks because the reason why the rock was pushed

00:24:10into the position that he was in and triple h was given his ascension that's like you know being

00:24:15in triple h vince's ear the entire time but a lot of these guys were given the rise is because

00:24:19they were the youth movement wwf did this whole thing was like we're the youth movement we're where

00:24:24younger people are wrestling not on wcw where all of these old dinosaurs in their 40s and some of

00:24:32them in their late 30s are wrestling don't you know goldberg was like the anomaly within that was

00:24:38like he was the you know the only younger guy that was getting the ascendancy ddp was was old

00:24:42um so that was like that was their stance against wcw but that's because they were losing

00:24:47they're winning now and when you are winning it would say like getting to the top is hard

00:24:53staying at the top is even harder and maybe you're staying at the top is doing the safe options

00:24:58and not taking those risks and because of that they've not invested in people when they could

00:25:03have done because it's like well we don't want to put a 21 year old on the top of the company because

00:25:07we don't know how that's going to uh affect stock prices or this and the other i just think now it's

00:25:12time to take some risks and do some things like this otherwise you're going to end up in a position

00:25:16where javon evans is with the company for 10 years and has done has really accomplished nothing from

00:25:22that i i i totally agree with your point on wwf pushing younger guys in opposition to wcw but then

00:25:30you get kurt angle you get that rise of kurt angle wcw weren't really as much of a threat then then you

00:25:36get lesnar in 2002 yeah and he is like just booked as this dominating force from the get-go brom breaker

00:25:42he's been on the main roster for about two years now he's been in nxt for two years before that yeah

00:25:48it's like we've already had four years of this guy he feels established in the company like the

00:25:53there is but he does still feel fresh but it's not like boom but this guy has just had four vignettes

00:26:00and he's debuted and he's just beaten john cena like there is a real opportunity here for triple h

00:26:06again in this sort of pivot can you take a risk a creative risk um which they did with cena but they

00:26:12didn't have the follow-up you've you've you've broken up the vision faction there is a very real

00:26:18route to have breaker win the world heavyweight title beating cm punk beating john cena and retiring

00:26:26john cena beating brock lesnar at wrestlemania yeah and then beating seth rollins on his return

00:26:33but maybe seth rollins beats him just for the purpose of the story breaker wins it back over the

00:26:37the three match feud can i give you my pitch that is that is a year long you could not do anything

00:26:43more to establish that guy yeah can i give you my pitch uh for a seth rollins return match uh when

00:26:49he comes back i think he gets you'd be beaten down by the vision again and then you know what he's

00:26:55gonna have to do he might have to turn to some people and find a shield tags and he tags with roman

00:27:05yeah i like that and tags with punk and it's roman seth and punk versus the vision and you have

00:27:14essentially a shield reunion because that's that seth thing coming full circle his whole thing was

00:27:19like i can't believe people would tag with roman reigns like he's going but now maybe realizing oh i

00:27:24was wrong in my approach to roman reigns i actually do need your help i think i wouldn't put punk in

00:27:32there i see the reasoning but maybe i'll put cody in there cody roman and seth the whole wrestlemania

00:27:3740 the only reason i'm putting punk in there is because you know this the shield was his idea

00:27:41yes i mean can i have one year one year without seth versus punk

00:27:46that's the other great thing about this we're not going to get seth punk

00:27:51oh god it's being dragged out further

00:27:54so i mean as an overall thing for me personally i think this is the jolt that wwe needs i think it

00:28:03needs a real burst of excitement and brom breaker is the answer to that i think brom breaker winning

00:28:09the world title and doing something completely new fresh and original heading into wrestlemania

00:28:12could be what wrestlemania 42 needs otherwise had this injury not happened man we'd have been

00:28:19coasting through to wrestlemania it would have been good but it would have been just coasting

00:28:25fine i think this now needs to be triple h needs to be able to show he can pivot in this moment

00:28:30because he's got something huge given against him his world champion and the guy who's been

00:28:34building raw around getting out injured he needs to be able to pivot and make a really exciting

00:28:38show off the back of it i'm afraid i really do believe this punk's gonna win punk's gonna

00:28:45go into a feud with roman reigns they're teamed together at war games and that's the match at

00:28:52mania punk versus roman they just switch seth and roman uh seth and punk out should we lay it

00:28:57down now then so if we're gonna say should the saturday night's main event match be bronn versus

00:29:02punk for the vacant world championship i'll put a tenner on now bronn wins i i want bronn to win

00:29:10yeah i know you do but put it there the tenner is back on back on

00:29:16wait i need to get in your shot

00:29:20because i spend most of my day

00:29:30homicidal suicidal genocidal and extreme to the bone what happened to sabu never got the

00:29:41accolades never got the money he deserved and almost killed himself for every promoter he worked

00:29:46for it you want a match it's gonna be your last one i don't know there's no story no planned out

00:29:59premeditated story that i know of unless uh you know if i was to maybe die tomorrow then that'd be a good story

00:30:06that was a trailer for the sabu documentary which you can go over to patreon.com forward slash wrestle talk

00:30:19right now and watch at the six dollar fifty tier and if you go to the eleven dollar fifty tier

00:30:23there is an interview with me and luke and the the film's director joe clark and the film's producer

00:30:30rob van dam and if you are going to watch the video version because it's available

00:30:35you know listen on audio for me if you're going to watch the video version try not to get distracted

00:30:40by rob van dam's background because what he is what he did and you know i think it was quite a smart

00:30:46thing is he set up some like video footage like a youtube video of someone playing 2k25 with rob

00:30:55van dam versus sabu which i you know a lovely little thing to have on in the background but youtube videos

00:31:01and then they might start also playing other videos so rob doesn't have premium yeah there's

00:31:08quite a few mid-roll ads mid-roll ads there's also it then goes into if i remember correctly

00:31:14all of rob van dam's entrances from various video games which actually is quite nice yeah but then it

00:31:20just ends off with uh current angle entrances video games as well we've also got a director's

00:31:26commentary on that tier as well where joe and rob first name terms joe and rvd just do the whole

00:31:32movie and they're talking about their experiences with sabu and what certain scenes are yeah i'm

00:31:38assuming if you're watching this you're probably around our age a good portion of you are maybe

00:31:43some of you are slightly younger you'll remember the glory days of director's commentaries and this

00:31:49is it's a they don't exist anymore but we're bringing them back i'm going to do a director's

00:31:54commentary my favorite director's commentary sean of the dead yes zombie commentary it's just people

00:32:01going over the whole film uh i was always a fan like i used to love the kevin smith documentaries

00:32:08they're shoot interviews that's what they are yeah i uh so i used to talk about when i worked night

00:32:13shifts i would have mp3 versions of shoot interviews with wrestlers that i would listen to uh because i

00:32:19worked night shifts before podcasts were really a common thing the other thing i used to do was get

00:32:23directors commentaries as mp3s and load them to my ipod and listen to those while i was working

00:32:28and just listening to directors talking about films that they had made i was found very very comforting

00:32:34so that's at the 11.50 tier but honestly do go over to the 6.51 at least because it's a really

00:32:40impressive movie i so we i think it was the trailer was first announced back in june and that's when i

00:32:47sort of reached out to joe and i said this this looks good just the way it's shot um to get a bit

00:32:52pretentious i think i said did i say this in the interview it feels a bit like harmony kareem

00:32:58directing a wrestling documentary harmony kareem's like spring break got a very poetic visual style

00:33:06almost abstract at points and it's not it's not what you think of when you think wrestling documentary

00:33:12it's not talking heads and here's this person's career from when they started there's bits of that

00:33:19but it's just sort of chapter starts what it is is sabu is training for his last ever match

00:33:26and we follow him around he goes shopping he cooks his girlfriend dinner he talks about the loss of his

00:33:32partner melissa he runs the ropes for the first time and he talks about how much it hurts yeah he

00:33:38there's a constant magician's cloak thing where you don't know what's real because he often talks

00:33:46on camera about well if he beats me like like the match itself is yeah is real but then he's also

00:33:55constructing the match it's it's it's fascinating it is at times feels like fly on the wall

00:34:01not like a documentary like you've seen previously it almost it's like a real life version of darren

00:34:06aronofsky's the wrestler in a way at times of just like following because there's like a moment when

00:34:11he is at a wrestling show and he's just sat there watching it but and it's got this sort of like

00:34:17forlorn look on his face of almost like a how did i end up in this position i'm currently in

00:34:23and thinking about wanting to have i've had some bad matches i don't want to end off like that i want

00:34:28to have some good matches and samoa joe did an interview recently where he was talking about

00:34:33like when's he gonna retire and he was like you know what i might just stop doing it and you know

00:34:37i won't make a big song and dance about it and we talked uh spoke to rob van damme in the interview

00:34:41and he said a similar thing he was like you know what if i just stop now i'm happy with that but

00:34:45there are some wrestlers like no i want to go out with one final thing and that's what sabu's doing

00:34:50but also talking about it might not be in true wrestler style this is my final match but i might

00:34:58also do some more after that it's it's it's like you i feel like i know who sabu is more than ever

00:35:06yeah yeah i i have way more questions yeah absolutely and and it's the sad thing is now

00:35:11we can no longer ask and find out more because this documentary was made while he was alive to

00:35:16the whole point of it was to build to his final match but it then became something different the

00:35:20postscript becomes something different because he does pass away shortly thereafter that final match

00:35:25and so then the final part documentary is this sort of celebration of his life it's i i really

00:35:30really liked i had a really like i was fascinated watching it i got quite emotional at the end as

00:35:35well and yeah we we spoke with uh rob van damme and the the director who had some really interesting

00:35:42insights on how he came about to making the movie and what his sort of approach to doing it and yeah

00:35:47rob's talks very openly very kindly about his friend yeah one of the i really recommend the pod like the

00:35:53interview we did with him because rvd tells this story you know the genocidal homicidal sabu

00:36:00rob van damme and sabu are in a coffee shop a woman walks in with a dog and says can you buy my dog for

00:36:08fifty dollars like they were like oh what a beautiful dog and i oh you can buy it for fifty dollars

00:36:13because i need fifty because i need fifty dollars and sabu instantly gives her fifty dollars

00:36:17it's like keep the dog keep the dog like but here's fifty dollars and she walks off and rob's

00:36:23like that she's just gonna sell the dog to someone else and sabu's like but maybe she won't yeah but

00:36:28i'm like what what a what a complicated man yeah but quite simple in the same time yeah it's it's it's

00:36:36really really good yeah highly recommend people go and check it out well these people are certainly

00:36:39going to be able to watch it because they are the pledge hammers on the 30 dollar tier the needs of

00:36:44the many connish outweigh the needs of the few better than you better than you and you know it

00:36:50max max kurt wallender wallen probably better than kyle philip o'reilly the man who wears the gold the

00:36:55man recognized by swaft international as the 24 7 champion our legend daylight robbery rob james

00:37:01bebop and rob steedley ross pooper scooper cooper rue the day rari o'brien kelly the man with the

00:37:07scoops sean the big boss man security james and lastly for this hall of fame class on friday the

00:37:1217th of october 2025 hear me roar zero two lion you are under the impression that dynamite is going

00:37:20three hours by stealth just freaking can i have a two-hour episode two and a half hours was this

00:37:25episode no sorry three hours because it was collision because there's wrestle dream on saturday they've

00:37:29split it in half the week look like the week before is title tuesday that was two and a half hours i

00:37:35think yeah the week before that i think was four hours or three hours uh that might have been i can't

00:37:43with that because that was the the anniversary episode yeah and then the week before that was

00:37:47definitely four hours because they did like both of them in the same block yeah because they did

00:37:52dynamite and collision at the same time i'm like the i it's probably just the seasonal thing there's

00:37:57the mlb playoffs and there's this pay-per-view so it's just there's title tuesday anniversary stuff

00:38:03so there has been some preemption but i really really think you should protect the two-hour format

00:38:10i think the show just doesn't hang together as well because you just inevitably have that oh it's

00:38:16the low effort collision hour or oh it's rampage for a bit that's exactly what it feels like this is

00:38:22like so every time they've done dynamite and collision it is mad to me how different the shows feel

00:38:28because one of them just stops being dynamite and then just becomes collision it dips to black and

00:38:35it and it like it literally has like the credits come up at the end you know they're they sort of

00:38:39like trademark and stuff but they do feel like completely different shows and while i appreciate

00:38:44what collision does which is a very much a saturday night old style wrestling show which just it's two

00:38:49hours of lovely wrestling and good wrestling happens when you would just have that at the end of a

00:38:56dynamite i just it doesn't work for me brother like it just doesn't like click together this would

00:39:02be better off just being a three-hour episode of dynamite because um you know we're gonna when

00:39:08there's no collision this saturday rather than it being a dynamite plus an hour of collision on the end

00:39:14of it i imagine it's out of their hands just because of scheduling but uh it's it's it's pretty bad

00:39:21to do this so often over the course of a month so i yeah i disagree i don't think it is going three

00:39:27hours by stealth i was being glip i think this is just a scheduling thing it's just it's all of this

00:39:33has happened within you know the last few weeks of each other because the thing with title tuesday

00:39:36it's not just that it was on a tuesday it's going to go uh against nxt yeah so you need to go do the

00:39:42overrun as well because that can sort of help artificially bump up your ratings but this show opened

00:39:48with tony storm and chris statlander doing a sit-down interview uh which i thought was very nice

00:39:53although i don't i didn't need it to start with comedy which is like you know both them taking off

00:39:57jackets and then chris takes off her trousers and then even renee's like takes off her jackets

00:40:02i want this to be a bit more like it got serious but i kind of didn't need it to start with comedy

00:40:08yeah i didn't think this was a good opening to the show i thought it was a fine segment i wouldn't

00:40:13say it like really fired me up for the match i i don't know where you're gonna fall on this i think

00:40:19it seems like a slightly divisive segment i think start this whole show with the john moxley

00:40:25darby allen thing that that segment was unlike most things i've seen in wrestling i would not have

00:40:32done right um i liked it don't get me wrong i i did like it but it is it's sort of hokey wrestling

00:40:39yeah but also if you're getting a lead in from another show that isn't wrestling and it looks

00:40:44more like a looks more like a a back and forth traditionally shot movie or high-end tv show um

00:40:52and moxley's acting i do believe is good enough i mean it was well you might go what is this and

00:40:58then you stick oh it's a wrestling show i don't know maybe but risks i can i can see that argument

00:41:03actually i hadn't considered from that angle so i i do agree with you there i thought this was

00:41:07fine uh be right maybe not the hottest way to open the show i think that the moxley derby thing

00:41:13if it's the start of the show functions as a cold open as well it's like this happened and now the

00:41:18show starts yeah which it's a bit weird to go into it in the show because it's so aesthetically

00:41:23different i also don't need you to then go into another promo segment because you have jack perry

00:41:27doing a promo uh against here about his match with the bucks at the pay-per-view then we had a

00:41:32hurt syndicate versus goa uh i think if you can say anything about the demand or this feud with

00:41:38the hurt syndicate it has raised the stock of goa yes which i think is a huge positive to take away

00:41:43from this particularly toa leona and his like his stuff with bobby lashley yeah they've got this

00:41:48really good just meat-based feud and they've become the first people to pin the hurt syndicates in

00:41:54aew yeah yeah yeah they won here and they pinned them yeah i just i feel i i thought that when the

00:42:04hurt syndicate when we say the hurt syndicate we mean shelton benjamin and bobby lashley in straight

00:42:09tag action because ricochet pinned mvp at the last pay-per-view yeah i thought when they finally took

00:42:16a clean pinfall loss this wasn't clean first off ricochet ran in when they when they finally got a

00:42:22pinfall loss it would be clean and it would be a huge deal and it would probably mean that the tag

00:42:28titles changed hands to goa like what why didn't goa just be i love brodido but why couldn't you have

00:42:37done all this leading into forbidden door and goa win the titles coming off the back of it when you

00:42:42only started off the feud at forbidden door yes well i mean shift everything did we need the jet

00:42:47speed stuff well they needed to beat up a few geeks really didn't they so you needed to do that to

00:42:53get to the christian stuff yeah obviously obviously you needed to do all of that jet speed stuff where

00:43:00they beat all of them uh to lead to brodido not pinning the hurt syndicate at the pay-per-view

00:43:06winning the tag titles yeah uh but the match was pretty good uh as it turns out and then we got

00:43:11uh the recap of darby attacking moxley at new york comic-con i love it when wrestling companies

00:43:16do angles like this reminds me of when punk started doing quote-unquote the summer of punk

00:43:21and he just showed up at a comic-con and started kind of promo on ww wrestling awesome i love this

00:43:26sort of stuff i watched a moxley interview from new york comic-con as well he looked mad awkward

00:43:31i didn't did not want to be doing it but he did say i've seen that steve austin

00:43:36but the the interviewer bless him was like and what dc characters would you let join the death

00:43:43riders you gotta ask these questions it's his job it's new york comic-con man are you gonna ask

00:43:50these questions but mox's answer was he wouldn't let batman join because he didn't kill the joker

00:43:55and i thought that's the most i've ever understood the death riders principles

00:43:59so then we have this the promo segments are between darby and mox which is done in a prison

00:44:08police like a visitor's booth a visitor's booth yeah that's where i get into a little bit of like

00:44:14it's wrestling hokiness because my first question is well who arranged this uh did they text each

00:44:21other like we're going to meet at this location uh one of them has to be in the visitor's side of it

00:44:27the other one has to be in the prisoner's side of it to kind of get in in all of this there's almost

00:44:32too much hokiness for this to feel like a wrestling promo segment for a wrestling match though it was

00:44:41very cool because moxley's promo is so great and actually to his credit i thought darby's promo

00:44:50was was actually really good as well i think darby can be hit and miss on promos but the setting

00:44:56i guess facilitated it coming off really well and moxie it's like moxie's a great promo all the time

00:45:03in this setting where he can talk slow and he can talk quiet and it's through the glass like

00:45:09it was it was an extraordinary performance you are right though i was so impressed by

00:45:13how it all came across the setup is completely lacking and unless i missed any explanation on

00:45:22commentary there's quite a clear reason for this i would say darby tried to firebomb a public event

00:45:28in the previous week's episode where that security guard signed that man did an awesome pounce on him

00:45:35like yeah why wasn't darby arrested for a week yeah and moxie is visiting him in prison yeah

00:45:43apologies if that was said on commentary if it was if it was i missed it yeah yeah um but yeah this

00:45:48i felt it was slightly too hokey uh for my tastes but at the same time kind of cool yeah well i i loved

00:45:57it i really gave me batman interviewing the joker or batman interviewing the riddler in the batman movie

00:46:03yeah well i it's sort of i had the same thing with the the cody roman promo that they did at that

00:46:09football stadium i'd like that well i know but that also was quite divisive in terms of like i don't

00:46:14need it's where this is cinema sort of like starts to creep into conversation don't do that don't

00:46:21utter that phrase here um we had claudio castignoli versus roderick strong very fun match uh really good

00:46:28stuff just uh yeah with an uppercut out of nowhere no death riders interference crucially yes which is

00:46:34sets up the tag match that you got in uh the the collision um this might be my favorite segment of

00:46:40the whole show which was the don callis family celebrating don callis's shoot birthday and kyle

00:46:45fletcher's present for don callis was a video from takesta who's just won the iwgp heavyweight

00:46:51championship despite what dave bradshaw believes they messaged dave bradshaw about this he was like

00:46:56zach's the true champion i'm only going to recognize zach as the iwgp champion

00:47:00and he's playing this video and part way through it ricarda just lifts up the remote and turns the

00:47:07tv off and then goes oops i pressed the wrong button i'm so sorry

00:47:12so i had already seen this they released this on social media a couple of days beforehand

00:47:19i did when i saw that i thought that is so funny it's so good god damn that better be in dynamite

00:47:24um and they did because sometimes they do these excellent segments or promos and they don't put

00:47:30them on collision or dynamite yeah maybe it wasn't collision i can't remember um but the yeah okada's

00:47:36delivery here like maybe he was just trying to turn up the volume yeah oh no i turned it off

00:47:41they're wrestling for the tag titles this weekend weird isn't it but i love it like that's the go

00:47:47home angle for this match is okada turned off the tv technically the go home angle was at the end

00:47:54of the show oh i suppose yeah yeah uh we had mark davis josh alexander and hedger sarah taking on

00:47:59kenny omega and the jurassic express look i loved this match kenny omega's wrestling in it and mark

00:48:04davis and mark davis my boy mark davis getting his shot back on tv uh yeah it's your fun six man

00:48:11party uh party tag match which i'm always going to enjoy nice to see jurassic express doing a proper

00:48:15match it was a squash match last week really um but yeah the story was kenny and perry like are

00:48:22they going to coexist and they did they they learned to trust each other throughout the match i thought

00:48:26mark davis got a lot here yeah i mean this was sort of like to show him off as the new member i would

00:48:31imagine the plan would have been had the andrade stuff not unfolded it was going to be the golden

00:48:38lovers versus the don callis family at wrestle dream that's kind of that's my presumption on what

00:48:43they would have done or just a straight singles match what but abushi's awful injury yeah that's

00:48:48what i mean two years you'd have done omega and abushi versus andrade and likely hechicero so

00:48:53someone can take the pin um it's not andrade exactly then you build to uh andrade versus kenny in

00:48:59the in the singles match do you think maybe it was but like if it was kenny versus andrade and

00:49:03like andrade uh kenny's gonna win and andrade goes oh actually my contract says

00:49:10you can't wrestle for a year oh no it turns out oops i pressed the wrong button and there's

00:49:17actually a year-long clause but you've signed me now so i guess you're paying me for that year i

00:49:22can't wrestle because wwe surely they sure aren't oh dear oh well see you next year i'll be in mexico

00:49:28so the report on this is that they were no one knew that this was a thing that andrade had this uh

00:49:36extra clause on his contract that meant that he because he was terminated he didn't have a

00:49:42traditional 90-day non-compete clause he might actually have a year-long non-compete clause which

00:49:48apparently is now standard in all wwe contracts if you are fired not released if you are fired

00:49:55then um you are not able to wrestle for any other wrestling promotion aside from ones that are

00:50:01affiliated with wwe so you can go to tna or and that is unbelievable that part because that's

00:50:07really cynical yeah it's not like you are fired therefore oh but you can work for a partner

00:50:14promotion you can work for partner promotion you can go to triple a um but it's yeah you for an entire

00:50:20year uh but it won't hold up in court well that's it so the the report is that andrade has got really

00:50:25good lawyers and that he if it is darling if it is going to be longer than two months then he likely

00:50:31will take this to court and if he does he probably would win because brock brock did yeah it's uh it's

00:50:37insane um the the reason i suppose the reason a non-compete you usually if you're fired from wwe

00:50:45you can you can turn up anywhere the next day like when cm punk was fired from aw i believe there was

00:50:51no non-compete element in there if he was released there would be yeah so and you're still paid by

00:50:57wwe during those 90 days yes exactly it's like essentially they'll give they're giving you notice

00:51:02yeah it's a notice of termination we are gonna yeah um but with uh with andrade's one i mean if

00:51:10it's standard across all contracts now i suppose that's if a wrestler tries to get themselves fired

00:51:14so they can jump over to aew or wherever really quickly like there is a reason for there to be a

00:51:19non-compete yeah in the event of a firing yeah it's a protection thing for you to be a year

00:51:24is just it's like there's no way that would hold up in any like people think contracts oh the contracts

00:51:32are like oh that's what it must be because i've agreed to it blah blah blah that is what will hold

00:51:36up in court yeah it's like the contract should be based on what the legal precedent is yeah but that

00:51:42this way wwe doing it is a scare tactic and an intimidation thing and a way where they can just

00:51:46tie andrade and aw and not because it is in the contract that then does have to be disputed

00:51:52um but there's yeah it's not it's not real yeah so last week we asked where is andrade in all of

00:51:59this turns out in uh cease and desist land because uh apparently wwe did send aew a cease and desist

00:52:07letter and having received one of those in the past actually kind of scary we got one for the first

00:52:12clash of the castle watch party we did they had legal team got in touch with us incorrectly and

00:52:17we uh we still got to do that show um because they sent it we did have a license yeah they sent

00:52:23it on bs reasons which i think they knew uh jamie hater then took on sky blue to build the tecla

00:52:31match this weekend uh hater won with a hater raid sky blue looked really good in this match as well

00:52:35like a hater gave her a lot she always looks really good i think sky blue's been really good the last

00:52:40couple of months and you know but since she came back from the injury the hardcore match she had a

00:52:44couple of months ago i really like triangle of madness and it is so not my bag like i think i

00:52:52really don't get on with this stuff usually yeah but i i think it's mostly because of the people in

00:52:57it i really like the people in it yeah and technically yeah because i think i quite liked heart and sky blue

00:53:02as a tandem and there was they did that promo a couple of weeks back where they both spoke at the

00:53:06same time like the you know there were the haunted twins from the shining and i'm like that's a bit

00:53:11too much for me the second tecla is with them i'm like that's badass now because tecla i just think is

00:53:15is badass and she got a promo afterwards where a good promo as well yeah so it's a hype up their

00:53:21match this coming saturday which i'm really looking forward to don't usually get tecla promos

00:53:25it's usually she appears and she brawls because she's no nonsense but i thought yeah when you heard

00:53:30her speak oh she can she can go on the mic it's also great that we're going to have a match

00:53:34at the pay-per-view a women's match in atw it's not built around a title this is just a grudge

00:53:40match between two wrestlers great you should have more of those things uh renee interviewed ultimo

00:53:45monet uh about uh the the 10th belt that she has now won uh and she's going to be i think it's this

00:53:51saturday is going to be the longest reigning tbs champion she might already be at this point the

00:53:55longest reigning tbs champion of all time then we have the ops versus lfi with hangman page on

00:54:00commentary i thought they might put the belt on lfi here just to get the the trio's championships

00:54:05off joe ahead of the world title match would have been something you know maybe hangman

00:54:11roosh is being his usual incredible dickhead roosh self hangman interferes that costs joe for some

00:54:19reason they lose the belts that would have been really exciting not pinning joe like not pinning joe

00:54:23i don't pin joe in but joe can be fury pincher badder look at the three that's the one you're

00:54:29pinning but joe would be furious yeah i thought this is this is week two of a build this is not

00:54:36a go home angle for your world have your world title considering disappointing considering how good

00:54:41the build they have done for this i felt this was a real like wet fart of an end i was like do they

00:54:47think they've got another week to build this that's because they've got collision as well and we'll do

00:54:52something there um i really enjoyed your comment on this which is the roosh is trying to insert

00:54:57himself into the world title picture that's why i love roosh no it's really about me actually just

00:55:03spitting that hangman page hear about his elbow he dislocated his elbow at one point getting into the

00:55:10ring mid-match like he just caught something caught on the the bottom rope this i've heard of

00:55:16dislocating your arm dislocating your elbow that oh god he goes outside he's screaming in pain

00:55:22he pops it back in and continues the match

00:55:24put this guy in the main event it's what he wants uh i guess this is now we're going to the

00:55:34collision portion of the show uh because wheelie yuta and daniel garcio the death riders took on

00:55:39kylo reilly and orange cassidy um the story of this was that yuta and garcia don't work together as a

00:55:45tag team because they don't like each other so claudio had to step in and cheat on their behalf to get

00:55:51them the win and now claudio's probably gonna have to work with them to get them onto the same page

00:55:56so they can be a cohesive unit which will probably see more at uh wrestle dream because they're in

00:56:01the pre-show yeah daddy mox was watching from the crowd as well like come on boys come on lads

00:56:07um and then darby came out like a zombie um and the story of this is no matter what you throw at him

00:56:16he's just going to keep on coming at uh john moxley i thought it was really effective uh because i don't

00:56:22think we covered pack beat the ever-loving teeth out of darby in the that sort of batman scene that

00:56:30we had earlier like bashing blood was going all over the screen it was awesome and darby comes out

00:56:36still blooded here because that was a couple of hours ago i guess and yeah first claudio does he

00:56:43knee uppercuts him or something yeah he still crawls down then pack does a running knee and he

00:56:48gets up and he still crawls down and all all while this is happening the death riders members are just

00:56:53watching him like he's still going it was a really good stage and i thought and he unfurled the flag

00:56:59and he was like i've planted this flag on top of aew it's like this is and i think this is what i quite

00:57:05like about some of this because i know you've got a little bit of a all right we get it you you cloned

00:57:09no that's very much a me problem they should they should absolutely remind us about the everest thing

00:57:15i don't think it's just about reminding us of the everest thing great uh it's this is what he's

00:57:19fighting for darby is fighting for the soul of aew which is what moxie is kind of against the moon

00:57:25he thinks he's really fighting for aew but yeah darby's like you're not i'm the one who's really

00:57:31fighting for what this company stands for so i think that some of the symbolism there's quite uh quite

00:57:35cool and then we had top gods cutting a promo um about willow nightingale and jetsby because

00:57:41they're having separate matches at uh wrestle dream and then it led into megan bain versus harley

00:57:47cameron harley cameron gave a spirited uh effort against bain but bain won in the end that's how

00:57:51i described it yeah spirited yeah she's she's doing really well uh the acclaimed then had a promo

00:57:57backstage where they were arguing saying they're never going to tag again uh and then our main events

00:58:01was carl fletcher lance arch and rocky romero the don callous family taking on mark briscoe and bro

00:58:05dito and uh who were bro dito one didn't they with the the pile drive yeah love bro d though

00:58:11love mark briscoe lance archer and rocky were just sort of there as fodder really and briscoe and

00:58:17carl brawled off because they've got the tnt title match which should be really good

00:58:20wonder if mark wins we'll get into predictions shortly uh but then el clon

00:58:26is here yeah really really quite pointless now that they've got no hologram is is injured

00:58:34thing with hologram is he is a guy under a mask you could just put someone else in the hologram

00:58:41position yeah but put clon as hologram and then hologram comes back when he's healed

00:58:47wait you were old clon all along you're suggesting doing the sincara storyline with it that they did

00:58:51which is when the original sincara went out injured so they replaced him with uh the lad who

00:58:56went on to become the toughest guy what was his name shamer several times yeah what i can't remember

00:59:03what his daddy name was now but anyway uh he then became sincara um dot sincara dark and we had

00:59:11sincara light in the battle of the sincaras like i'm not saying put el clon underneath the bars but

00:59:16you just put some other one under the the hologram mask i don't care i enjoyed the dynamite segment of

00:59:24this but it did not feel like a very strong go home show which is actually i think it's what aw

00:59:28usually do quite well i don't think this was a effective go home show uh the clon distraction

00:59:33by the way brought out okada he beat up bro d though with the belt because yeah that's the tag match

00:59:40of the pay-per-view uh so should we get into these wrestling yeah speaking of um so we've got 12 matches

00:59:45four of which are on the pre-show which means i know you're gonna sorry it means it's an eight

00:59:50match card for now which by the way again just to recap we are covering this on monday yeah we're

00:59:58not like it's a saturday night pay-per-view but we we like our weekends now we're being kind to

01:00:03ourselves i did a weekend last weekend yes exactly like we we're just not gonna do every single

01:00:08weekend uh we are open with on the pre-show ftr taking on jet speed um well i think ftr win quite

01:00:17clearly that this is all just filler for when edge and christian come back um eddie kingston and hook

01:00:23are an open challenge oh you're not gonna predict ftr oh yeah sorry i probably should do uh yeah i'll go

01:00:29ftr yeah eddie kingston and hook what a waste of both guys like eddie kingston's come back hook's been

01:00:37having these vignettes we have been talking so much about kingston coming back and getting involved

01:00:42in this death rider storyline because he's the guy that has the most yeah emotional heft to add into

01:00:47this and he's just there being like cool i'm tagging with hook i guess i hate you sammy guevara yep but

01:00:53that's over now so uh two other clowns can come and face us and it'll probably be big bill and brian

01:00:59keith kingston and hook for me yeah me too harley cameron and willow nightingale taking on megan

01:01:05bane and penelope ford uh i'm gonna go with the good guys i'll go with willow nightingale pinning

01:01:10penelope ford i'll go with divine vanity just because they are a coherent tag team um but megan

01:01:18did get the win on wednesday oh no actually i'll go cameron nightingale as well and uh the main events

01:01:26of the pre-show is roderick strong and the conglomeration taking on the death riders of

01:01:30claudio casignoli wheelie uta daniel garcia and pack and the conglomeration being orange

01:01:34cassidy kyle riley and tomohiro ishii really at this point we have to build roderick strong

01:01:39separately from the conglomeration so this is a joke of roderick strong keeps saying he's not part

01:01:45of the conglomeration and even when they do graphics it's like roderick strong and the

01:01:50conglomeration that is cute then and then there was a graphic put up for this match that said it's

01:01:55just the conglomeration versus the death riders and roderick strong was like well no no uh i need

01:02:01to get in touch with the graphics department i'm not part of this group yeah it is roderick strong

01:02:05and the conglomeration um i the story as we said will build around willie utah and daniel garcia

01:02:11not getting on so i think that might actually lead to the good guys getting the win i'm going death

01:02:16riders just because i think this is pax only second match back right and he lost to cassidy

01:02:22yeah i don't think he's taking the pin i think i think it'll be one of you uh because they got

01:02:27the win on collision so i think it'll be uh team good guy getting the win here i'll go death riders

01:02:32the main actual show which we'll do this in this order uh the hurt syndicate taking on the demand

01:02:38in a trios tornado match it's the hurt syndicate they lost on dynamite they sure did and that will

01:02:46bring them two versus two two wins two losses that'll end the feud uh in a singles match we'd

01:02:53mentioned this earlier jamie hater versus tecla i mean i think it should be hater god i really like

01:02:58tecla though i think tecla's winning i'm going with this one yeah i'll go hater for the tag team

01:03:04championships it is the don callis family represented by the uh what is it the the unified champion

01:03:10kazuchika okada and the iwgp heavyweight champion uh konosuke tikeshta taking on brodido

01:03:16and because of those two guys having those two belts i think they might win the tag titles there

01:03:23is a new japan political argument here that they do not want tikeshta to lose the week he became the

01:03:31iwgp heavyweight champion because one of them would have to take the pin yeah and if he was not the

01:03:36iwgp world heavyweight champion i'd be like oh tikeshta will take the pin here and not okada

01:03:40now that both of them have got those belts i don't know man like it's but i i think okada could take

01:03:47the pin and that builds a tikeshta okada match for the iwgp heavyweight champion for for all the belts

01:03:55who knows maybe they do one match for the unified and then uh wrestle kingdom has them for the

01:04:01the championship and that's okada's big new japan return maybe um but i'm i'm going uh brodido to

01:04:08retain part of me the things are going to put the belt on the callis family for the is that your

01:04:13prediction yeah okay i'm gonna say i'm gonna go with uh okada and tikeshta um although i do agree

01:04:19with you eventually we are building to the singles match finally for the tnt championship it is carl

01:04:24fletcher defending against mark briscoe i'd put the belt on mark i think now's the time i think

01:04:31he's he's been bubbling for so long he needs to win something he beat max if you beat max you

01:04:38should get a proper thing off the back of it yeah carl fletcher it frees him to go up to the main

01:04:43event scene i completely agree with you on that one so yeah i'm going mark briscoe we have a tag team

01:04:48match where the winners will receive half a million dollary dues as jurassic express take on the young

01:04:54bucks i mean it should be jurassic express because they've just come back and this is the the revenge

01:05:00feud uh so i'll go jurassic express but some of these could go either way i'm going with jurassic

01:05:06express on this one for the aew women's world championship it is statlander defending against

01:05:11timeless tony storm i don't think they take the belt off statlander this soon me too but that means

01:05:16tony takes another loss i think she takes a lot i guess that can help her spiraling character who

01:05:22am i so i'll go chris uh we have darby allen taking on john moxley in an i quit match i wonder

01:05:29if this goes on last i think you might be right i'm surprised it's not like an unsanctioned i quit

01:05:37match because then there's a reason for it to go on last but i wouldn't want to follow them and also

01:05:43i do feel like it's the main event yeah this is a year in the making from the previous year's

01:05:48wrestle dream when they took out danielson um and hangman page versus samoa joe just doesn't feel

01:05:55as big i think if you do it that way around and having joe and page go on last you run the risk of

01:06:03what happened when it was copeland and moxley and you should have ended with the the hollywood ending

01:06:08um there's every chance that the crowd burns out and they don't want to just see a 40 minutes

01:06:12wrestling match no so moxley won at the last pay-per-view in the coffin match

01:06:17darby's gonna win i think darby needs to win yeah i think this is the match for darby to win

01:06:22yeah i agree and i don't know how he's going to make moxley say i quits i'm terrified to do so

01:06:27i hope it's not a molotov cocktail because that is stupid and then in the main well possibly the

01:06:35main event for the aw world championship it's hangman versus samoa joe yeah uh easy hangman page

01:06:40retention although i cannot wait for the match i don't want it to sound like i'm i'm down on these

01:06:45two although the go home segment wasn't stellar uh but yeah i yeah cannot wait for these i am so

01:06:51excited for this match and i think you're right i think the page retains and then page can go into

01:06:56that rouge feud yeah that's the match we want to see right now right uh well thank you so much for

01:07:01your comments on last week's episode which we didn't really have a main talking point we actually

01:07:06did predictions for um thingy for crown jewel so we've got some people uh talking about some other

01:07:11stuff um particularly booker t because you and i had some very harsh words to say about booker t's

01:07:17commentary it's the worst uh but first up before that we've got double t music who said got to meet

01:07:22you both luke and ollie during the interval clash of the comics on wednesday night just want to say

01:07:26thanks again for all you do was a lovely experience meeting the people behind the voices i listen to

01:07:30every week as someone who doesn't have many mates who are into wrestling i rely on you guys to fill that

01:07:34void and the podcast certainly does just that nice to meet you too whoever you are yeah so that was

01:07:39really that was nice a bit of a smile to my face but now on to the booker t's matt here says someone

01:07:44finally said what i've been saying for years booker t is the effing worst but people have differing

01:07:51thoughts on this including uh rap seven or who said booker helped stephanie and trick get over

01:07:56he's fun he's funny he's hilariously entertaining and has to be the most entertaining commentator of all

01:08:03the time he's even got compilations based on his funny moments not everyone needs to be a serious

01:08:08cory graves type commentator uh fun funny and hilariously entertaining i feel like you just

01:08:16said the same thing three times i made it sound like there's more to it now he's fun funny hilariously

01:08:22entertaining and entertaining um i i could not disagree more i don't think he's a good commentator with

01:08:29the basic requirements of a commentator and his style put actively detracts from the product yeah

01:08:35so i i did say in last week's episode the credit i would give him is that i do think he has been

01:08:39uh instrumental in stephanie backhurst devil kiss getting over because that now has become part of

01:08:44her move set it's like doing the chant along with it with the crowd so i give him credit for that and

01:08:49actually some a lot of people pointed out whoop that trick is also but i think that was the nxt crowd

01:08:54not booker t going in between each one i think it was more the crowd that got what that trick over

01:08:59it's fine to have uh those for signature spots but he does it all the time well that's what i said he

01:09:04he's become a meme commentator he's just looking to make noises so people clip him out and then he

01:09:09stays relevant and on twitter gifs i guess podcast um and that's all we should do

01:09:15can type it or make just do just save me diabetic man here said honestly booker t is one of my

01:09:21favorite commentators at the moment yes he has his goona moments but most of the time he's

01:09:26incredibly entertaining when he goes off on one of his great ban when he goes off on one he's great

01:09:30banter his chemistry or anti-chemistry at times with vic joseph just adds to it a top 10 commentator

01:09:37for me plus i think his commentary helped get over stephanie backer with the devil's yes we've

01:09:41established we've established that and ad-libs trick williams entrance he has done one or two

01:09:47good things look he did a whole episode of tna impact which was themed around the main event mafia

01:09:54taken over the show and it was him and kevin nash on commentary and the joke was he's not a good

01:09:59commentator yeah he's worse now than he was back then he is way worse now because now he knows that

01:10:04it's a bit and yeah he's become self-aware he's become self-aware in the worst possible way like a

01:10:10toddler who i think i've used this analogy before a toddler who says something and the the adults

01:10:17laugh so the toddler just keeps on doing that thing yeah there's i actually had that happen to me last

01:10:24night i asked the kid when during bath time what stories you want to do tonight and she just looked

01:10:28at me and said what story do you hate doing that one that is funny and me and my wife burst into laughter

01:10:38because it's such a funny thing to to say and then she just kept asking but which one do you hate and

01:10:44then i'd say which one i hate like which other one do you hate because she knew it would make it would

01:10:48try and make us laugh again um the answer to the question is um pup save the pizza tower from the

01:10:52paw patrol that book stinks um jamie here said you should do these shows at a post eight pint stinking

01:10:59stupid more often hilariously good fun oof i was rough last week i went to bristol i drank more

01:11:06uh i actually was fine and then i went home and watched a bit of uh the flash and it made me feel

01:11:10terrible amiable oh no do you know what i actually i didn't watch the flash on friday that was my plan

01:11:16i could not face it i instead watched six months worth of tna impact to get notes together way better

01:11:24i had such a good time watching it and amiable pariah here on spotify says the slander of the

01:11:31world heavyweight title is absolutely wild to hear you admit the smackdown is a dull show you admit

01:11:35the scene of retirement is a bust the wwe title does absolutely nothing the title matches are bad

01:11:41worst royal rumble main events ever which i guess is was like kevin owens match which was that was

01:11:47awesome yeah this year's rumble it was codeine owens

01:11:51but neither were the world heavyweight champion w wwe champion oh yeah that was great

01:11:58furthermore talking about outfits cody roads congress out uh like the offspring of a nutcracker

01:12:03on the 4th of july i'm not saying the heavyweight title runs are flawless but they are streets ahead

01:12:08of wwe title reigns wild takes what you're you're you're calling your own takes wild takes

01:12:14i think the gunther run the the jayuso run the second gunther run the seth run like

01:12:20this is a year of of dull runs largely and that includes the wwe championship as well because i

01:12:28don't think the cena run was great and i don't think cody's run last year with it was particularly

01:12:33that exciting either um so i think that all the titles aren't really having much

01:12:38hugely interest at the moment the thing with the world heavyweight championship is that it was

01:12:41introduced as the consolation prize and therefore still feels like a consolation prize yeah the wwe

01:12:46championship particularly when cena held it despite all the creative missteps made it feel like the

01:12:51most important title in wrestling yeah and he did have great matches like that the the summer slam

01:12:57one is a genuinely great match he had one great match and the punk one the order one they're very

01:13:03fun eventually got good yeah but when it was just the first week we can't just ignore the first 15

01:13:08minutes of a half hour match um so what are your recommendations for this week uh man this is

01:13:14probably the only week i've not really thought of one you go first let me see what the sabu documentary

01:13:18yes the sabu documentary double recommend it's a double recommend but we talked about that earlier my

01:13:23uh recommendation this week i've talked about this on the podcast a lot but um new metal is back

01:13:28everyone uh so get on board because uh it's back and it's back in a good way and i've talked about

01:13:33bands like um maybe not safe and particularly clockwise who i think are a superb new new metal

01:13:39bands also wrestling fans that gives them plus points but i think one of the first new new metal

01:13:43bands that i got turned on to was a band called silly goose who big silly goose had a brilliant

01:13:49marketing strategy for themselves is they would just follow bigger bands doing tours around the

01:13:54country and would do gigs outside of their gigs on the back of a flatbed truck yeah and so they

01:13:59were just taught like drive up and down the country doing shows outside of bigger shows and the albums

01:14:04that they've done are really really good and they just released new albums out today i think it's

01:14:08called keys to the city i'll just quickly double check that is what it is called um the keys to the

01:14:12city is one of the uh tracks on the album that much i do know it is called keys to the city uh and

01:14:18yeah i really like them and i think they've got a really cool unique sound to them they are they sound

01:14:25like they could have come out in the year 2000 and i think it's pretty cool that's what new metal

01:14:29is yeah it's a 2007 yeah by silly goose by see a big silly goose me and my partner that's like oh

01:14:36you're big silly goose yeah if one of us does something silly and uh also new series of celebrity

01:14:41traitors oh here in the uk yeah it's it's way better than the american celebrity traitors which

01:14:47is just the traitors yeah and everyone's so mean well the thing is here's why the uk celebrity

01:14:53traitors is so much better than the american celebrity traitors is because the american celebrity

01:14:57traitors is just reality tv stars or people who've played games before this is just a wild variety

01:15:04of celebrities you've got established uh uk chat hosts you've got some stand-up comedians in there

01:15:10you've got olympians you've got sports broadcasters within it historians it is just this wild singers got

01:15:19this wild collection of people charlotte church is among them yeah that's that's someone i hadn't

01:15:25thought about for a while i know taking me right back to some crushes when i was a teenager i haven't

01:15:30heard people talk about charlotte church's boob so much since she was 15 years old and the sun were

01:15:35counting down the days till she turned 16 true story everyone the sun newspaper did count down the days

01:15:41until she turned 16 years old while some creepy bastards while simultaneously running uh pedophile scare

01:15:48stories oh the big menace of britain right now is all those pedophiles by the way check out this hot

01:15:5615 year old girl yeah does your mother know that you're out does your mother know about you

01:15:59that was our media landscape when we were growing up on a national level yeah they did the same thing

01:16:06to um emma watson watson yes hermione hermione but anyway yeah so uh celebrity tracers here in the uk

01:16:13and silly goose that's my recommendations i'll recommend smashing machine why you just said it

01:16:19was no no i look it is a good film okay it's just at the end of it you kind of left with oh what was

01:16:26the what why why that story because mark uh i didn't really know that the ending of the story i know

01:16:33he had pain pill addictions and um sort of marital problems well they weren't married but relationship

01:16:39problems i didn't know how the the big career bit ends and it's incredibly anticlimactic maybe if i

01:16:46knew that going in i'd experience it all a bit differently yeah but it is a bit um it's one of

01:16:53those things we're like with all the amazing stories in sports why did you pick this one and i think it's

01:16:59because he's one of those guys that did so much in the early days to establish ufc and he's sort of

01:17:06not spoken about at all now yeah um maybe that's the reason and the rock can easily get the rights to

01:17:12it because he uh he's part of tko yeah yeah uh but there's plenty of other ufc stories you could have

01:17:19done of those early fighters but can the rock play those roles maybe not because you've missed the

01:17:25the key to this is to make sure the rock is the central focus of this so he can try and get an

01:17:29oscar nomination well i think i think the rock he watches a sports documentary and goes i really

01:17:34like that let's make a film of it that's how he that's how fighting with my family came around

01:17:37it's very true yeah and this this is he watched a mark kerr documentary oh yeah i'll make that well

01:17:43you and i have speculated before that the reason why he played black adam in dc is because he went

01:17:47to dc and said i want to play superman yeah and they said you can't at the moment so he was like

01:17:51well find me a character that's just like him then you know like black adam he was like black

01:17:55adam's the greatest comic book character of all time i can't wait to play him in a movie i grew up

01:17:59reading black adam i've been i'd be sitting on hulk hogan will babysit me and give me these black

01:18:05adam comics and but yes i it is look it is well made it's incredibly well acted you can't like you

01:18:12can't fault the rock's performance in it all and there's some really powerful moments it's just at

01:18:16at the end i'm sort of left feeling like

01:18:19what what was the point of putting so much effort into this story i've got a recommendation a bit

01:18:27like that as well like if you look just looking to pass an hour and a half and you don't really

01:18:30know what to do with it uh the woman cabin number 10 on netflix is just a movie is this what

01:18:38recommendations have become now well i gave you two actual recommendations and you gave me one that

01:18:42you yourself said was broadly fine no no i i i i honestly the direction acting superb and i think

01:18:50as wrestling fans and rock people who grew up with the rock we should go and see it like this is an

01:18:55important part of one of the most iconic wrestling stars ever's the hollywood persona and he does it

01:19:02incredibly well yeah but you will be left with this huh but maybe if you know that going in your

01:19:09well there you go so if you uh yeah there you go if you want to check it out ollie's recommendation

01:19:13is you might not remember that you've seen it similarly the woman in cabin number 10 but you

01:19:19will remember the sabu documentary on patreon.com forward slash wrestle talk genuinely that that has

01:19:24not left me no it's not i keep thinking about it so go over to patreon.com forward slash wrestle talk

01:19:29right now to watch that jam that jam

01:19:32you

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