- 7 weeks ago
This week on Power House, Diego sits down with Leo Pareja, CEO of eXp Realty, the world's fastest-growing, cloud-based brokerage with over 83,000 agents across 27 countries. Leo discusses his transition to CEO during the NAR settlement announcement and how eXp has evolved from a bootstrapped startup to a major industry player.
He shares how eXp built a distributed workforce and why transparency in real estate data benefits everyone. Leo explains eXp's strategy of attracting entrepreneurial agents who build their own brand and how their virtual-first approach creates competitive advantages in today's hyper-localized market.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
How eXp scaled from just a startup to a global brokerage without physical offices
Why 2026 will be a hyper-localized real estate market and what that means for agents
The importance of transparency sharing versus private listing strategies
How eXp's distributed workforce model creates operational advantages over traditional brokerages
Why sellers think it's 2021, buyers think it's 2008, and the reality is neither
Leo's approach to innovation and staying curious about AI and emerging technologies
Related to this episode:
eXp Realty
https://www.exprealty.com/
Leo Pareja / LinkedIn
http://linkedin.com/in/leopareja
eXp Realty | RealTrends Verified
https://www.realtrends.com/brokerage-profile/exp-realty-bellingham-wa/
eXp Realty | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/company/exp-realty/
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire president Diego Sanchez every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
He shares how eXp built a distributed workforce and why transparency in real estate data benefits everyone. Leo explains eXp's strategy of attracting entrepreneurial agents who build their own brand and how their virtual-first approach creates competitive advantages in today's hyper-localized market.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
How eXp scaled from just a startup to a global brokerage without physical offices
Why 2026 will be a hyper-localized real estate market and what that means for agents
The importance of transparency sharing versus private listing strategies
How eXp's distributed workforce model creates operational advantages over traditional brokerages
Why sellers think it's 2021, buyers think it's 2008, and the reality is neither
Leo's approach to innovation and staying curious about AI and emerging technologies
Related to this episode:
eXp Realty
https://www.exprealty.com/
Leo Pareja / LinkedIn
http://linkedin.com/in/leopareja
eXp Realty | RealTrends Verified
https://www.realtrends.com/brokerage-profile/exp-realty-bellingham-wa/
eXp Realty | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/company/exp-realty/
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire president Diego Sanchez every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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NewsTranscript
00:00As we've kind of come into our own as the category leader, I think that's one of the advantages we have.
00:06We've gone through the growing pains. We know how to scale up and down, adjust to market trends, and optimize to support the agent.
00:22Welcome to Powerhouse, where we interview the biggest names in housing and ask them about their strategy for growth.
00:28I'm Diego Sanchez, president of HousingWire, and my guest today is a special one.
00:33It's Leo Pereja, CEO of eXp Realty.
00:36Leo, it's so great to have you on the show.
00:39Diego, thanks for having me.
00:40So you took over as the CEO of eXp last year.
00:45How has that transition from Glenn to you gone?
00:49Yeah, no.
00:50So it's, you know, for people watching this later on, it's almost 18 months after the announcement.
00:57And my transition was more of a moment in time, right?
01:03I became CEO during the NAR announcement.
01:06So the week we found out, so it all happened on a Friday.
01:10And by Monday, we'd spent the weekend deciding what we were going to do.
01:16The decision was either be quiet, say no comment, or be loud.
01:20And I decided to be loud with Glenn's permission, and I kind of got very loud.
01:26And so probably within a week, Glenn sat me down and said, you're the CEO of the company.
01:32And so it was more of a transition of what the market needed, what our agents wanted, and where we went.
01:41Glenn set out a pretty amazing strategy of growth and technology when he founded the company, when he grew the company.
01:51Have you tweaked that strategy at all since you took over?
01:58Yeah, no.
01:59Glenn is a visionary leader in this industry.
02:02And, you know, I've said it in front of him, so this is not a secret.
02:05I didn't see it, right?
02:07I had heard about eXp probably a good seven, eight years before I joined the company.
02:11And I just quite didn't get it.
02:13And Glenn's been a visionary and probably one of the most disruptive visionaries in this industry.
02:17And so he was probably a decade ahead of the whole world.
02:23So when COVID came, it proved out his thesis better than anything.
02:28And actually, I recently heard him on a podcast say, because people assumed he liked COVID, and he actually said he didn't because then everybody else realized they could do it too.
02:37And so he said, we probably had a couple more years of going against the grain if COVID hadn't accelerated the ability to work remotely and virtually for the whole planet.
02:48But like all companies, we go through phases.
02:50I think phase one of eXp was highly entrepreneurial and bootstrapped and kind of, you know, solve the problem in front of you.
02:59And since I've joined, I've joined as a scaled enterprise.
03:04So we're no longer the kind of disruptor, small person fighting the good fight.
03:09We're now considered one of the larger incumbents that people like to compete with.
03:14And so I think, you know, whether it's a season, a phase, I think, you know, all companies and individuals go through these periods where you learn and you mature and you now optimize for the current season that you're in.
03:25And now we're, we've gone through a lot of the learning mistakes.
03:30We've learned how to be a leader in the space.
03:34I think we've learned how to optimize our business.
03:37We've corrected along the way in parts of the model that may have not worked early on and really found our voice, right?
03:44The one thing I'm super clear about as CEO is that we can't be all things to all people.
03:50And I think I see that be a misconception in business in general and not only in our space.
03:55And you have to decide who your ideal customer is.
03:58And, you know, we're in the agent business.
04:00And I always say EXP is a platform to allow entrepreneurs to build whatever size dream they want.
04:05So very intentionally, I focus on entrepreneurial agents, the ones who are looking more for a platform than a company per se.
04:14I think a lot of our legacy competitors are offering what I describe as an app versus we're the iOS.
04:21So I see ourselves as an operating system for entrepreneurs.
04:25It's so interesting.
04:27And to your point, you were growing before COVID hit.
04:32And I think COVID accelerated some things.
04:34But what do you think was so attractive?
04:37And you say you're not everything to everybody, but you're a lot of things to a lot of agents over the past several years.
04:44What do you think is attracting people to that platform that you've built?
04:47Yeah, so many reasons, right?
04:50But one is I think we create a tribe of like-minded individuals.
04:56I've always said people join people.
04:58And I think the most attractive thing about our network are who participates in it.
05:03We have some of the most productive teams.
05:04We have some of those productive solo agents who are highly entrepreneurial.
05:08We're really looking to build and define their own brand in the marketplace.
05:12I many times say that we are secondary to the agent, right?
05:16We're not a consumer-facing or focused brand per se.
05:21We're more interested in partnering with the most iconic folks in the market and then giving them the tools to go faster, stronger, better.
05:29So one of the things that I have focused on quite a bit since joining the company is on operational excellence.
05:34I want to be the best brokerage on the planet because unlike some of my other scaled perceived competitors, and I use perceived very specifically because I don't think I compete with franchisors, right?
05:47When I say I'm the biggest brokerage in the world, people say, well, Keller Williams, Remax, these brands are bigger than you.
05:53And I say, well, those are brands.
05:54We're the actual brokerage.
05:55So we actually fulfill and close and support transactions, meaning I'm the broker of record.
06:01We have folks that close out transactions and disperse commissions, and no one's ever done it like we have at the scale we have.
06:08And so it's a new concept.
06:09You know, we created a category of cloud-based national brokerages, and now I believe every new company as it invented will look more like us than the legacy participants.
06:21And so I think we focus on completely different things, right?
06:24I've been quoted saying to many folks when they mention a legacy company, I say those companies are more in common with young brands than with me, right?
06:32The company that sells Tim Hortons and Burger Kings because they're selling a geographic boundary and then sell those folks cups, lids, and straws and burger patties versus they're not in the transaction like I am.
06:45So in that analogy, you know, we own stores with them, and, you know, we partner with them in the local market and support them in a completely different way.
06:55How have you kept up with the infrastructure that's needed for this massive growth in agent count that you've had over the past five years?
07:05Yeah, and there's only one way to do it, which is, you know, adjusting in flight.
07:10You know, we've had to scale up, scale down, modify, optimize, kind of dial it in.
07:15And, you know, a lot of times when an agent is considering us versus a copycat, to say it nicely, who's hoping to replicate what we've done,
07:27one of the drawbacks is I say, well, they haven't, they don't know what they don't know.
07:32They haven't gone through the scaling lessons.
07:34And so as we've kind of come into our own as the category leader, I think that's one of the advantages we have.
07:42We've gone through the growing pains.
07:43We know how to scale up and down, adjust to market trends, and optimize to support the agent.
07:49And are you building corporate infrastructure, you know, ops teams, ops leaders, and in a cloud-based company, you know, where do those people sit?
08:02Are they distributed across the U.S. and across the world?
08:04How do you structure that operational team?
08:06I think that's the part that most people just don't comprehend our scale, right?
08:09We have over 2,300 full-time employees and or contractors to support 83,000 agents in 27 countries.
08:16And, you know, the sun does not set on eXp transactions, which is a wild thought to have.
08:21And so we've really, I think, mastered distributed workforce.
08:26And so all teams work from home.
08:29We don't have one single physical office.
08:31There is no HQ, which is now that I live it every day, I can't actually imagine going back to one.
08:37Yeah, and it takes a real skill set.
08:43And you have to develop your expertise in being able to work in a distributed environment.
08:48So you build a little bit of a moat as you get better and better at it.
08:52Well, you know, one of the things, so my previous company that I was running, that I founded during COVID, we sent everybody home because we didn't have a choice.
09:02And I can tell you that there's a distinction between it being in the DNA and the fiber of the company versus it was like a reaction to this uncontrollable thing that happened to the world, right?
09:14Like it is in our DNA.
09:16I think we all appreciate the privilege that it is to work from home.
09:21And so, you know, a lot of the things that I hear other companies complain about aren't really issues for us, right?
09:28You know, during working hours, the expectation is you are available.
09:32You know, you're not going to call me back for two days.
09:36And so, you know, especially in this moment in time in the latter part of 2025, and we've seen this huge push for return to work.
09:45I think it's even made our positions more coded.
09:49Yeah, that really makes sense.
09:51All right.
09:51So let's talk about the housing market, which has been difficult for a couple of years, but mortgage rates, inventory, and pricing data have all gotten more favorable, especially over the summer.
10:04Are EXP real estate agents seeing any benefit from this turn in the data?
10:10Yeah, that's a great question, Diego.
10:11And I think in 2025, we're in a hyper-localized market, right?
10:14I think in 2020, 2021, 2022, we kind of had kind of directionally accurate macro statements for the whole country versus 2025.
10:22In my prediction for 2026, it's going to be a hyper-localized business, right?
10:27The Southwest of Florida is performing very differently than the Northeast of the United States.
10:32And so what I preach to my agents all the time is to be hyper-aware of your local market.
10:36Do you understand the days on market, the absorption ratios, the months of inventory, right?
10:41Do you know how to calculate the difference between a seller's market, a balanced market, and a buyer's market, mathematically speaking?
10:47So you can explain a seller and or buyer, right?
10:51One sentence that's kind of been my catchphrase for 2025, especially once we hit the middle of the year, which is sellers believe it's 2021.
10:59Buyers believe it's 2008 because of the media.
11:02And the answer is it's neither, right?
11:04And you as the expert advisor on either side of the transactions,
11:08I think it's very important that you educate and explain the nuances of what's going on in your local market.
11:14But how do you empower them to do that?
11:17It's not easy to become your local housing market data expert.
11:22Yeah.
11:22And again, in our virtual platform, we have tons of educational opportunities on a daily basis, both by corporate and by the agents.
11:29And so I think education is key, right?
11:31One of the most important initiatives I've had is EXP University, whether it's, you know, six-week high accountability programs or specialized modules around social media or open houses.
11:43And just being super aware.
11:45And I sold for 16 years.
11:48And I always said my superpower was being able to look at the data.
11:52I think in a world where we have so much information, you know, and large language models are not making the problem easier.
12:00They're probably adding to it because we have so much information at our fingertips.
12:03I think the expert advisor in any category, real estate, lending, insurance, you know, I'm not sure if you're familiar with this statistic, Diego, but travel agents are making a resurgence, right?
12:16An industry that was once almost rendered obsolete is coming back because we need guides and experts that can sift through the data and give actionable suggestions that are fiduciary.
12:29Yeah, that's such a great point.
12:31And I'm just thinking about it.
12:32Personally, we're planning a family trip to Costa Rica for the winter break.
12:39And we absolutely have taken advantage of experts that are out there because it's just going to make it a better trip, right?
12:46And I imagine the same goes for buying and selling a house.
12:49Like, it's just going to make it a better experience if we're working with a great advisor.
12:54Absolutely.
12:55So, big headline right now is there's a government shutdown.
13:00And, you know, who knows when it's going to end.
13:03Is that impacting your business for the positive or the negative?
13:08Yeah.
13:09So, I grew up in the D.C. area, so I'm more familiar with government politics than most agents.
13:14And, again, in some parts of the country, like D.C., that has a bigger effect than others.
13:19And then macro as the United States, it awfully affects FHA and VA and any loan that's insured or sold by the government.
13:28One of the things that I go back to, and this is after being 23 years in the industry, is that the human condition is what drives all real estate decisions, right?
13:36So, at the end of the day, the biggest drivers of the market are, do we have to move?
13:43If so, do we buy a rent?
13:45And what inventory is available?
13:47So, the affordability constraints, the ability to get a mortgage, and the amount of houses kind of dictate all that.
13:54But I think of the real estate industry almost like it's a three-legged stool, right, between inventory, cost, and affordability.
14:03And that really has more constraints on anything else, right?
14:06If there was a lot more inventory and rates were lower, we'd have more transactions.
14:10And so, anything that affects that trifecta affects the market.
14:14I don't have specific information to give you as to, like, the nominal effect on the portfolio of transactions.
14:23But I'm for less friction, so it's not additive.
14:30Right.
14:31The less volatility, the better in a lot of ways.
14:33Correct.
14:34All right.
14:35Another big headline, particularly in real estate, is this battle between Zillow and Compass as sort of the primary combatants around Compass's private listing strategy.
14:48Where do you and eXp stand on that private listing strategy?
14:53Yeah, I think my position is very well documented.
14:56I've probably been one of the louder advocates of transparency.
14:59So, I believe that the North American way of doing real estate where we cooperate and share data, so meaning I enter a listing into the MLS, you enter a listing to the MLS, and we agree to share that data across all platforms, is in the best interest of the U.S. consumer, which, by the way, comma, turns into the best interest of my company, right?
15:23So, I believe less friction for the consumer, a complete data set, more transparency, creates a higher net execution for sellers, creates an open and available, you know, access for buyers so we don't tread into fair housing issues.
15:41And so, I don't know of any example in commerce where restricting access is a better experience for our consumer.
15:51And in turn, you know, not purely selflessness, the better the experience, the better the market, the more liquid, the more available, the easier it is to transact and create opportunities as a commercial enterprise.
16:03Yeah, it's interesting to me because eXp could form a really big private listings network, but you're choosing transparency because you think it's better for the consumer and it's better for your business.
16:14Correct.
16:14And I have a unique vantage point because I operate in 27 countries, and I can tell you it's extremely painful in Europe and in Asia and in Latin America where we don't have that and it takes longer to sell.
16:29So, it's harder to finance, less transactions, like the North American market creates transparent data sets that gives us comparables and the ability to price properties and the ability to get AVMs and HELOCs that exist in a very short period of time.
16:48So, there are markets in the world that are just as sophisticated from a pricing standpoint, from an economic standpoint that don't enjoy some of these benefits, and I believe it comes from this complete data set that we enjoy in this country.
17:01So, sticking with Compass for a moment, they just acquire anywhere, which if that transaction closes may allow them to expand their private listing strategy, and they've had a very different growth path than eXp.
17:13They've been very focused on growing through acquisition.
17:16How does eXp continue to grow market share at the pace that you've been growing it, no matter what happens with Compass, anywhere, private listings, and in the rest of the industry?
17:27How do you focus on you and your growth?
17:29Yeah, and that's what I always do.
17:31We focus on our flywheel.
17:33First of all, it's understanding that we're not all things to all people.
17:36There are multiple models that work.
17:38And my best example of that is not a single company is 100% market share.
17:41No one kind of has a silver bullet or figured it out.
17:45I think people choose different models that appeal to them for a bunch of reasons.
17:51And so, you know, I think people don't understand the scale of our business.
17:56So, 83,000 agents in 27 countries, you know, over 60-some thousand in the U.S. alone.
18:02So, if you were to combine the anywhere company-owned stores with Compass, I'm a close second, not a distant second.
18:09And I believe that over time, we will get a proportion of the like-minded individuals like we have.
18:19And so, we're focused on our strategy and what works for our agents while keeping the consumer in mind.
18:26Leo, you mentioned it before.
18:28You have had some copycats over the past couple years, some of which seem to be pretty well-run businesses.
18:33Can you take a page out of the Compass playbook and maybe acquire some of those copycats over the next couple years?
18:39Yeah.
18:40I mean, I'm the CEO of a publicly traded company that is non-public forward-facing information.
18:46And I can't comment as to strategically what we will and will not do.
18:49But what I can say and what we will continue to do is we focus on attracting, you know, our tribe and the folks that align with our model.
18:57And I do think there's quite a bit of folks who are attracted to our stance and view of transparency.
19:03So, when I think of brokerages that are progressive with technology, you mentioned distributed being in your DNA.
19:10I think technology is also in the DNA at eXp.
19:14What innovations are coming in 2026 for your agents and their customers?
19:21Yeah.
19:21So, yes, I completely agree.
19:23I think technology is a core foundational part of the way we view the world.
19:28And it's so foundational that sometimes I forget about it, right?
19:32So, we tend to attract an agent who does like technology or they probably wouldn't be able to thrive on our platform since we're fully distributed and completely virtual.
19:41But I think, you know, every company in the world will be continuing to innovate and focus on the advantages and new opportunities that AI is creating, right?
19:52As someone who built a tech company, I'm floored by the ability to vibe code now.
19:58So, just about any person in the company, you know, at a minimum can create a wireframe of a concept.
20:05And, you know, even if that first step just gets it over to the engineers who can build it out completely, there are parts of the business process that are now available to every member of the company that just didn't exist before from a technical standpoint.
20:19So, I think there is an in-between time between now and whatever the world looks like.
20:26And if we were to look akin to what happened in the early 2000s with the advent of the dot-com bubble that gave way to high-speed internet through, you know, the collapsing cost of cable.
20:37And that really is what gave birth to high-speed internet like four years later, right?
20:42And so, I tell people all the time, I think, with AI, we're probably in our MySpace era, meaning that the incumbents of the future may or may not already exist, right?
20:54And so, there's probably going to be a lot of rapid change.
20:58I think my agents and other agents should expect companies to be in a very high experiment mode, right?
21:06More than previous, and I've actually told my team internally and agents, like, be prepared that some of the stuff we build and give you is going to be thrown out in 18 months, is that the speed of which stuff is changing.
21:17And I think the suggestion I have to any human being on the planet right now is to stay in curiosity and to test and play and, A, not marry the outcome, right?
21:28Because I don't know if any of the technology will stick around or someone launches something substantially better or cheaper or faster or stronger 6, 12, 18 months later.
21:39But I think it's a really exciting time to be in business.
21:43Super exciting.
21:43And, you know, we're only 65 people at Housing Wire.
21:47But the vibe coding is really interesting.
21:50And folks are coming up with concepts that we can turn into products extremely quickly.
21:55But how do you systematize that so that you go from the 65 people at Housing Wire to the 80,000 people who could potentially be vibe coding at eXp?
22:06And how do you take in all those suggestions and productize them?
22:09Yeah.
22:09So, first of all, like, the staff is 2,300.
22:12So it's a much smaller population of who's part of the corporate team.
22:16But I think, again, our DNA is very flat, meaning that Glenn and I have always been accessible to lots of folks and we're open to suggestions and constantly people are wanting to show us stuff.
22:28And so I think part of the strategy is to stay in curiosity at all times, right?
22:35And, by the way, I mean that not only in technology but in what competitors are up to.
22:40I think there has to be a high level of humility and curiosity of what other folks are doing.
22:47And you can say, hey, I disagree for X, Y, and Z reasons, or that's pretty innovative, and maybe we should consider adding that to our value stack.
22:57And not too many ideas are unique in business, right?
23:01And I say often a quote that say marketers ruin everything, right?
23:07So if somebody comes up with something good, there's probably some arbitrage in the first-to-market advantage, and then everybody adds it to their playbook, and then it becomes a table stake.
23:20And then we've got to find the next interesting way to innovate.
23:25Well, let's wrap with this question.
23:29You're one of a few, probably a handful of Latino CEOs of a public company.
23:35Do you have any advice for other Latinos and Latinas that aspire to become a CEO someday?
23:43Yeah, so I think I'm the only one of the housing category.
23:46And overall in the S&P, I think I'm part of a very small club, if you will.
23:52But it's been my approach, and advocacy has been a big part of my life, professionally speaking.
23:58I founded NARF's DC Chapter, and then went on to sit on their national board, and I've been a loud advocate.
24:04But I think where I've seen a lot of folks miss the mark in advocacy is they don't talk about the economic impact, right?
24:14So a couple things are true for me.
24:16I always wanted to be the number one fill-in-the-blank, comma, that happened to be Latino, right?
24:22I wanted to be the number one agent in Keller Williams, Wall Street Journal.
24:25I wanted to be in all the places because of my execution, my merit, my business ability, comma, that happened to be Latino, not the other way around.
24:39And I always approach advocacy around the issues that are important to me as a Latino as the economic opportunity, right?
24:45The economic impact that the community I care about impacts the country.
24:53And so one is believe there are no limitations because I truly don't.
24:58And one of the really cool experiences of my life in my last company was raising a lot of venture capital and growth capital.
25:05And that was probably the least amount of discrimination I ever experienced.
25:13I truly felt that at the highest levels of participant capitalism, the best idea wins.
25:18And sometimes what I think I want anyone to hear who is part of a group that is not the majority is to not let it slow you down or be in your head.
25:30And if you are participant at the highest levels and you execute, you'll have a fair share at the opportunity.
25:40Yeah.
25:40And if you look at the opportunity for Hispanic homeownership in the U.S., wow, that's a booming business.
25:47Absolutely.
25:48A lot of opportunity.
25:49Absolutely.
25:51Well, Leo, it's been so great to catch up with you this morning.
25:54Really appreciate you joining me today on Powerhouse.
25:57Thank you so much.
25:58Appreciate you having me, Diego.
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