- 3 months ago
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00:00:00Good morning everybody and thanks for joining us for this fall update that we attempt to
00:00:22do every season.
00:00:23I'd like to introduce Shannon Downing, my partner in crime.
00:00:28And Shannon's going to assist me and hopefully help me in explaining my way through things.
00:00:35I also would like to thank Hilary Quick who's not here because I'm using much of her presentation
00:00:41from Summer Skate.
00:00:42So the content will be much the same as the Summer Skate presentation for those of you
00:00:46who were there but this will be archived for those who can see it later for viewing.
00:00:52We'll also be clarifying, I hope for the final time, the spin position requirements for star
00:00:59one to four.
00:01:00So we'll get to those a little bit later.
00:01:03I'm going to jump right in with jumps.
00:01:06The first part is mostly technical and for judges in terms of GOE.
00:01:11And it's mostly reminders, so not much new for this year.
00:01:15So nothing new this year in jumps.
00:01:18Shannon, tell us about these things that are listed there.
00:01:21Okay, so you'll see a nice list of bullets that Jenna has listed here.
00:01:26And those are errors that indicate that the starting GOE cannot be higher than a plus two.
00:01:32Okay, so if you have any of those happening, judges, no matter how great the element was,
00:01:40you can't start higher than plus two.
00:01:42Coaches, when you're wondering why they got this strange GOE, you can go, oh, they were
00:01:48short some revs so the judge actually couldn't start higher than plus two.
00:01:53Okay, so then there is one new thing for pairs, a new no higher than plus two starting GOE,
00:02:00and that's if there's the unequal number of revs in a jump.
00:02:02So I think we've always done a reduction, but now it is you can't start higher than plus
00:02:07two.
00:02:08So one of the partners does an amazing triple toe, triple toe, and the other partner does
00:02:15an amazing triple toe, double toe, can't start higher than plus two for that GOE.
00:02:21Okay, on to spins, because I think this is where we often have the most questions.
00:02:28The text on the left, which is in black, is just listing those mandatory features required
00:02:36for a level four, nothing has changed.
00:02:40So Shannon, talk to me about the no higher than plus twos, because these are just for
00:02:45spins, and in particular about that one about the revs.
00:02:50So again, nothing new here, but just a list of the errors that will prevent your GOE from
00:02:58starting higher than plus two.
00:03:00So that's your fall.
00:03:02Next one's really important, the missing revs in a short program.
00:03:07That one's really important because we need to make sure that the skaters are achieving
00:03:11the required number of revs as per their requirements.
00:03:14Or there is a pretty significant reduction that judges are going to take.
00:03:19Change of foot poorly done, poor fly, and our incorrect takeoff or landing, and multiple
00:03:24errors.
00:03:25For example, slow spin or traveling.
00:03:28Yeah, so we don't add them all up, but you can't start higher than plus two for that.
00:03:34Really important to know that the severity of the GOE reduction increases with the number
00:03:39of revs that are missed.
00:03:42So we have, like on your GOE sheet, so if they miss one or two revs, the judge takes
00:03:46minus one to minus two.
00:03:48If they're missing three to four revs, or more than three, it's minus three to minus four.
00:03:55There has been some clarification needed, I believe, for combination spin.
00:04:01So in a short program, this rev reduction of not starting higher than plus two is for any
00:04:08of the spins.
00:04:09But in the free program, the combination spin, you just keep counting, it doesn't matter where
00:04:19the revs happened.
00:04:20In position.
00:04:21In position, yeah.
00:04:22Okay, so let's just move on to this, because as Hilary said in her slide, this is her slide,
00:04:29it's all about the revs.
00:04:31And they must be in the basic position for the revs to be counted in the flying spin and
00:04:36the spin in one position.
00:04:39Regardless short program, free program, we're not counting those revs if their leg is down,
00:04:44or yeah.
00:04:45So in the combo spin, we're counting all the revs.
00:04:48So let's look at this, um, this, um, video.
00:05:00Okay, so, okay, you can clearly see that there is some imbalance for sure, um, as the first
00:05:18thing you notice in the, in the spin.
00:05:20But this is an example of no higher than a plus two in a short program, because he is missing
00:05:26revs in position in this camel spin.
00:05:29So you can see on the first foot, he had 10 or 11 in position, and then he changed
00:05:35feet.
00:05:36And he had a bit of a hard time as he was changing positions.
00:05:39So I think in the end, he only got two in the camel on the second foot.
00:05:43In camel.
00:05:44So there's quite a few errors here.
00:05:45He has to have six and six, so ooh, ooh, I think we're down to like taking off minus
00:05:49four for that spin.
00:05:50Oh yeah.
00:05:51You could easily take off the missing three or more revs, and then you might take off as
00:05:55well the unbalanced number of positions.
00:05:57And actually, this is a really good example of the unbalanced number of revs.
00:06:01Yeah.
00:06:02So I've often had a coach say, well, what does that mean?
00:06:04Like six and eight?
00:06:05I go, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:06:07It's when like one foot is like massively higher and then they get to the second foot and they've
00:06:12died.
00:06:13So their first foot is really short and then their second foot goes forever.
00:06:16So maybe it looks like a great spin on that second foot or first foot, whatever it was.
00:06:20He did.
00:06:21He looked like he was in a great camel, but then eh.
00:06:23Yeah.
00:06:24And that was a really clear example.
00:06:26Not all examples are that clear, but that's a really good example so that you understand
00:06:30what we're looking for.
00:06:31And then if we go to what happens when the free leg drops down for a long time, there
00:06:38is a geo-reduction.
00:06:41And this is clarified, that little language there is from the referee and judge's handbook
00:06:47that's posted on the website, the ISU one.
00:06:50So again, if it's going down like that, the judge can take poor or awkward positions, even
00:06:55if they do get all the revs.
00:06:56So just remember that.
00:07:00This is just a reminder.
00:07:01I don't have a slide or a video or anything, but layback spin.
00:07:04Can you tell us about that, Shannon?
00:07:06So again, in the short program, the layback spin, only the revolutions done in the layback
00:07:12or sideways leaning positions count.
00:07:15So the Beelman position is considered.
00:07:17They can still do it, but we need to make sure that they're performing the correct number
00:07:22of rotations in the layback before they walk into the Beelman.
00:07:26So for pre-novice and novice, we're counting six.
00:07:32And for junior, senior, we're counting eight.
00:07:35So if the skater goes up out of their layback before, into their Beelman before they've got
00:07:41that required number of revs, short program.
00:07:43We're not looking at free here.
00:07:45The judge will reduce for short revs, missing revs.
00:07:50Missing revs.
00:07:51Okay.
00:07:52So that's another one that maybe even the athletes aren't aware of when they're doing that.
00:07:56I'm not really sure.
00:07:57But you need to count those layback revs before they get up into the Beelman.
00:08:01Yep.
00:08:02Okay.
00:08:03We have a new clarification for the blade feature.
00:08:06So it came in last year, this lovely blade feature.
00:08:09Nobody quite knew what to do with it.
00:08:11So now they've given us some more parameters.
00:08:13Shannon.
00:08:14Okay.
00:08:15It's a really cool feature and we're seeing lots of skaters trying to attempt it.
00:08:18So this year there are some clarifications that a feature must be performed in control inside
00:08:26the spin.
00:08:27So that's new.
00:08:28And that the spinning must continue after the feature.
00:08:33And the other new part is that the blade feature is not considered as a difficult exit.
00:08:39So if a skater performs the blade feature at the end of the spin, it will not be considered
00:08:45as a used difficult exit attempt.
00:08:47Yeah.
00:08:48And I think actually that that last box was not new, but I think last year it still didn't
00:08:55count as a difficult exit.
00:08:57It doesn't really matter.
00:08:58Just so you know, it doesn't count as a difficult exit, it counts as a blade feature.
00:09:03That's right.
00:09:04Okay.
00:09:05So let's take a look at a blade feature that will explain that clarification that's new
00:09:09this year.
00:09:10Okay.
00:09:11How do I start this guy?
00:09:12Here we go.
00:09:20So he was doing it, he went up and he kept spinning.
00:09:23Yeah.
00:09:24So it's great.
00:09:25So it's a very good feature that he's done and he will get that feature called.
00:09:29Ah!
00:09:30And then he does a difficult exit.
00:09:31Yes.
00:09:32Okay.
00:09:33Now, Shannon, walk us through this next one.
00:09:35Okay.
00:09:36This is from last season.
00:09:37So...
00:09:38Oh, sorry.
00:09:39Gotta go to the next one.
00:09:41Uh...
00:09:42Here we go.
00:09:44Okay, so she does the blade feature.
00:09:56That would have counted last year, but she doesn't continue in the position after the feature's
00:10:01been done.
00:10:02She doesn't keep spinning.
00:10:03She doesn't keep spinning.
00:10:04So they've said that they have to keep spinning.
00:10:07They haven't said for how long.
00:10:09So just if you are using it at the end of your spin, they do need to come back and do
00:10:15I think at least one rev somehow of spinning.
00:10:17So you can't just go up and then be out.
00:10:19That's right.
00:10:20I think actually for me the blade feature is quite cool and maybe like increases my
00:10:26GOE if it's kind of done in the middle of the spin and then they carry on and they do
00:10:31something else.
00:10:32I agree.
00:10:33Yeah.
00:10:34So it's like a creative thing too.
00:10:35Yeah.
00:10:36For sure.
00:10:37Okay.
00:10:38So there's that one.
00:10:39Now, I just want to clarify this one a little bit.
00:10:42Hilary gave us some videos to show.
00:10:46So a lot of skaters do jump on the same foot within a spin.
00:10:51So what are we looking for, Shannon?
00:10:53Okay.
00:10:54So as judges, we're looking to make sure that this is for tech panel.
00:10:57Okay.
00:10:58Right now.
00:10:59For tech panel.
00:11:00Let's go back.
00:11:01So this one for the tech panel, they're looking to make sure that there's significant strength
00:11:04and skill when they're doing the jumps.
00:11:07Okay.
00:11:08And the jump has no requirement as to how high they get or anything like that.
00:11:13So we see a lot of little hops and sometimes the hop can be more and the tech panel will
00:11:23award it.
00:11:25And sometimes the hop is like, uh, uh, uh, uh.
00:11:28So it's a subjective call, but clearly we're looking for strength and skill.
00:11:33So the younger skaters, they may not get it right away, but you might want to keep training
00:11:37it so that they can develop it.
00:11:39So let's look at a couple of these.
00:11:46Okay.
00:11:48Nice.
00:11:49Fly.
00:11:50Oh.
00:11:51Okay.
00:11:52I'm going to show her once more.
00:11:54Do you think it has significant strength and skill?
00:11:57Let's watch again.
00:11:58Oh, what have I done?
00:12:00Shoot.
00:12:01I'm going to go back.
00:12:02I'm going to go back.
00:12:03Go back.
00:12:04Here we go.
00:12:05That was great.
00:12:08Hmm.
00:12:09Hmm.
00:12:10Hmm.
00:12:11We decided no.
00:12:12Yeah.
00:12:13Not quite the significant strength that we were looking for.
00:12:14We decided no.
00:12:15And I think if you did it in slow motion, like she barely gets off the ice.
00:12:20So that is not going to get the feature awarded.
00:12:27Let's take a look at this one.
00:12:29Okay.
00:12:30Good.
00:12:31Keep watching because they're going to show it in slow.
00:12:50Okay.
00:12:51What do you think, Shannon?
00:12:53Yeah.
00:12:54He clearly is able to come up off the ice and show significant strength in the position.
00:12:59Yeah.
00:13:00And so we don't necessarily need to see like if he's coming from a sit.
00:13:03We don't need to see like a flying sit position.
00:13:06We just need to see that he's got the, or she or they, sorry, have the strength to get off the ice and the skill to actually control it.
00:13:18So I would definitely award that if I were on the tech panel and now for your viewing pleasure.
00:13:23Of course.
00:13:24Okay.
00:13:25Oh, I'm going to see that.
00:13:26Wow.
00:13:27Okay.
00:13:28Yeah.
00:13:29Something we can all achieve or strive towards.
00:13:30Yeah.
00:13:31That was great.
00:13:32Yeah.
00:13:33So.
00:13:34Yeah.
00:13:35So, yeah, so that was like a high level for me, but, and what was so cool too is the, the way he controlled, controlled it, but also the, the low pressure.
00:13:54So that was like a high level for me, but what was so cool too is the way he controlled it,
00:14:02but also the lovely position that was maintained and the centering of the spin.
00:14:06So that would be your striving for jump within a spin.
00:14:10Sure.
00:14:11Okay, we're going to talk just quickly about the flying spin because flying spins have been around forever and ever,
00:14:18and guess what? It must fly.
00:14:20It must fly.
00:14:21Yeah, we definitely want to see that there's a clear jump with good air position.
00:14:26And again, we have a geo-re reduction if this doesn't happen.
00:14:31So for poor fly and or incorrect takeoff or landing, and it's pretty significant, minus two to minus three.
00:14:37And again, you can see at the bottom there, this is one of those errors that as judges, we cannot start higher than a plus two.
00:14:43Right.
00:14:43So I think, you know, flying camel begins very, very early, you know, in the, they don't go flying in star one to four, do they?
00:14:55Star five, I believe.
00:14:56Star five, they do a flying spin.
00:14:57So again, for judges, you'll, that's a good time to be starting really to be looking at,
00:15:04am I going to take that reduction for a poor fly?
00:15:07Maybe you don't take the, the, the full, um, range, range of it.
00:15:13Thanks for that.
00:15:14Um, but this is where we really need to see air position and some kind of, if there is a camel, that it's not just a step over.
00:15:26So take a look at this, uh, video here.
00:15:29Oh, I'm having a worry that it's not going to play.
00:15:32Uh, it's not going to play Steve.
00:15:33Okay.
00:15:34Nevermind.
00:15:35So I have a few videos in here that, um, for whatever reason they played this morning, they're not playing now.
00:15:41So literally, I had a, uh, a video of a skater, a very common thing that we see.
00:15:46She kind of just does the step over.
00:15:49There's a bit, there is a jump, bit of a jump, but, um, there's no air position with the camel before they left.
00:15:56So, um, and it's very typical of what we see, I think it's particularly like, um, juvenile pre-novice skaters.
00:16:03They do this kind of step over a clear step over has its own reduction.
00:16:07What is it?
00:16:08Um, the clear step over comes the tech panel can take that too.
00:16:12Um, if they see the clear, the step over, but this one for judges, we're looking for a fly.
00:16:17Okay.
00:16:18Right.
00:16:18All right.
00:16:18Yes.
00:16:19Yeah.
00:16:19But, um, so, so really work on that as coaches and really, um, so I'll confess.
00:16:24So this is the, this is the one that I miss the most in a program.
00:16:29They do their flying spin.
00:16:31If it's a great fly, I've always noticed it.
00:16:33If it's not so great, I forget to kind of even comment on it.
00:16:37And I don't always take the reduction when I should be taking it.
00:16:41Um, I don't need to kill the skater for, sorry, wrong phrasing there.
00:16:46I don't need to like be majorly harsh, um, if they've managed to not just step into that
00:16:52next one, but, um, um, it's, it's, um, it's something that for moving up as the skater
00:17:01develops, if they haven't learned and kind of started to master that, that fly part and
00:17:07the flying sit, the flying camel, it's going to be with them forever.
00:17:11And I think that's why we see the starting reduction at minus two rather than a minus
00:17:15one, because they really want to make sure that they're developing that basic skill.
00:17:19So really work on that fly.
00:17:20Yeah.
00:17:20Sorry about these videos.
00:17:21It's going to make things go faster now.
00:17:24Okay.
00:17:25Here's one.
00:17:25Uh, this GOE reduction came in last year and, uh, um, so can you go back to us for a minute
00:17:35over there, Steve, cause I want to talk.
00:17:37Um, this GOE reduction came in last year and a lot of us as judges went, Ooh, like that's
00:17:44a big, harsh thing.
00:17:46Um, and I think the coaches really paid attention to that.
00:17:52I didn't have very many throughout the year.
00:17:55Um, the ones that you do have are usually just because there's maybe been a major error
00:18:00and the skater's way behind.
00:18:02And so there was no, no saving that, but we've actually found now that skaters stop their spin
00:18:07before they've got their revs.
00:18:09So they don't take that other reduction.
00:18:11So it's a bit of a catch 22.
00:18:13Do I stop spinning?
00:18:14So I'm on my music and actually I think it's not a bad idea because it actually present
00:18:19affects your, um, presentation a bit too.
00:18:22If you're like spinning and spinning or exiting sliding and there's no music.
00:18:26Yeah.
00:18:27Um, so, but I guess my word of caution is not caution.
00:18:31It's kind of like, please do this coaches or whoever's doing the music, please don't
00:18:39cut the music to the, like the, and 10th of a second, like give them a little bit of cushion
00:18:45that if there's an error in their program, they actually, um, will still finish within
00:18:50the time limit.
00:18:51So let's take a look at this one.
00:18:53Whoop, this music's over.
00:19:11Oh, and a slide.
00:19:16So.
00:19:17He looks confused.
00:19:19He does look confused.
00:19:21I think that's a pretty major one.
00:19:22Um, because he, he maybe might've wanted to sacrifice his difficult exit to get less time
00:19:30because I think I'd be, I'd certainly be minus three.
00:19:32Me too.
00:19:33For sure.
00:19:33Towards the, and it was a good spin.
00:19:36So then we, then we have a lot of this happening.
00:19:39Just a minute.
00:19:40Here we go.
00:19:45I'd like to hear the music.
00:19:46I think the judge is obligated though, to take at least a minus one.
00:19:55Um, so maybe like maximum two seconds, maybe not even over.
00:20:06So again, so we're seeing, I see more of those and that's more common that they're just a
00:20:11little bit behind the music.
00:20:13I think the judge is obligated though, to take at least a minus one, um, that they didn't
00:20:17finish with their music because it's the same as missing a rev on a spin.
00:20:20It's like, should be, um, needs to be, uh, not punished.
00:20:26That's the wrong word.
00:20:27We're not doing justice.
00:20:28Yeah.
00:20:29And the skaters that don't have those errors, right?
00:20:31We want to make sure that we're rewarding them.
00:20:33So yes.
00:20:34Um, okay.
00:20:35So just a reminder about that, that reduction.
00:20:38Okay.
00:20:39Now, um, difficult change of position.
00:20:43This is just a reminder that, um, again, there's words in there requiring significant
00:20:51strength, skill, and control, and, uh, that it has an impact on the ability to execute the
00:20:58position change.
00:21:01I think the next line, the bullet is continuous movement must be performed throughout the change.
00:21:07And, again, at the bottom, um, they have to have held the basic position before and after
00:21:13for two revolutions.
00:21:15So I have a video, um, and I'll just, oh, and this one will work.
00:21:19And this is an example of a, um, very, of a good difficult change of position.
00:21:25We see this a lot, but I want you to watch for the continuous motion and the fact that
00:21:29she's spinning, gets the two revs before and after.
00:21:33So sometimes we, with this.
00:21:37So, yeah, you could clearly see that she had, you know, more than two revs in her sit position
00:22:01and, and very continuous, I see.
00:22:03And control, she had really nice control in that spin.
00:22:05That's a very, um, I think it's a very common difficult change of position when the
00:22:10tech panel sees and the judges see, and, um, if it's done well, it can absolutely increase
00:22:15our GOEs too.
00:22:16Definitely.
00:22:17Okay.
00:22:18Um, oh, I have a little note here.
00:22:21Oh, I think I've already said this.
00:22:22No, I haven't said this.
00:22:23Coaches, um, be careful when choreographing slide exits like our little fellow did earlier.
00:22:30Um, that was about music, but sometimes they're out of control and, um, what could be called
00:22:39when they're out of control and their hands go down?
00:22:42Yeah.
00:22:42Well, we, we don't want to risk a fall.
00:22:45Well, that's what can be called.
00:22:46Yeah.
00:22:47And it, maybe their, their bottom doesn't go down, but they clearly have their hands
00:22:53on the ice and their knees, et cetera.
00:22:56Yeah.
00:22:57And so the blade isn't there and the tech panel will call a fall.
00:22:59They will review it too.
00:23:00Yeah.
00:23:01And they'll, they have video replay and they will decide.
00:23:04And, um, so there's two things, the fall could be called and also it could go on past
00:23:09the music end.
00:23:10Definitely.
00:23:11So then, then there's, um, that other GOE reduction.
00:23:13And even as judges, we have poor exit now that we can take into consideration, which,
00:23:18which also might be impacted.
00:23:19So all those things.
00:23:20Yeah.
00:23:20So Shannon has this like sheet up here.
00:23:24There.
00:23:25I don't know.
00:23:25I'm, I'm, I'm.
00:23:26Definitely good reference.
00:23:27Anyways.
00:23:28Yeah.
00:23:28It's the DOE sheet.
00:23:29And I think it's a very good one also for coaches to maybe show their skaters so that
00:23:34they understand the kind of reductions that there are being taken by that judges.
00:23:39And when there's maybe more than one and why the marks go get added up.
00:23:44Multiple errors.
00:23:44Yeah.
00:23:44Um, okay.
00:23:46I'm going to skip over this difficult exit.
00:23:48I think I'm going to go to this one.
00:23:51So just as a reminder, Shannon.
00:23:56So this came in last year, but a reminder that a feet, for a featured account, it must not
00:24:02be together with a used difficult variation.
00:24:05Okay.
00:24:06So what's the difference between a difficult variation and a feature?
00:24:11Are they?
00:24:12Yeah.
00:24:12That's a good question.
00:24:13A difficult variation is actually a feature.
00:24:16Yes.
00:24:17It is.
00:24:17Yeah.
00:24:18So we have all these features like spinning eight rounds, you know, without changing position,
00:24:26change of edge.
00:24:28Difficult change of position.
00:24:30Like we saw.
00:24:30The change of position, the difficult exit, the difficult entrance and the difficult variation.
00:24:35It is a feature.
00:24:37And then within that, there's all those different difficult variations.
00:24:41That's right.
00:24:41So if you've used a difficult variation already, and now you're going to do a feature in that
00:24:50same spin, such as eight rounds even, or a change of edge, it won't count because you're
00:24:57using it together with a used difficult variation.
00:25:01There's a lot of things to keep in your mind, but basically if you've used a difficult variation,
00:25:07don't put it together with another feature because it won't count.
00:25:11The feature won't count.
00:25:12That's right.
00:25:14So this is just, I've just listed on this slide, or Hillary did it for me actually, the
00:25:20features that I was just talking about, that if you do these with a used DV, none of these
00:25:27features will count.
00:25:28So don't waste your time.
00:25:30Okay, so now we're on to choreo sequence.
00:25:36This is more for judges and for coaches, for choreographing, and really for the athlete.
00:25:44They're not going to watch this, I don't think.
00:25:47And we talk about it every year.
00:25:49I've talked about choreos, I think, for the past five years, and how there are free marks
00:25:53and all this stuff.
00:25:54So just, I'm going to go to another slide, and this is from the handbook.
00:26:03Whoops, sorry.
00:26:05So it's an example.
00:26:07It's from the Referee Judges Handbook.
00:26:09Again, it's on the website under Officials Resources, Singles Pairs.
00:26:15In a choreographic sequence.
00:26:17Okay, Shannon, they've done two beautiful spirals, and there's all these crossovers in
00:26:21between.
00:26:22So there's no connection between the spirals, it's crossovers.
00:26:25How will this affect the GOE?
00:26:27So, you know, you can tell me in your own words, or you can read it.
00:26:30It doesn't matter.
00:26:31Yeah, well, that is one of our GOE reductions, when there's no connection between the two
00:26:35movements.
00:26:36Yeah, yeah.
00:26:36And it's a significant one, too.
00:26:38Yeah, so they can do, we do see some beautiful spirals, or some really great moves
00:26:45by, that aren't spirals, you know, like awesome moves, but then they're stroking around
00:26:50in between the moves.
00:26:51And that is this reduction of lack of connection between the choreographic movements.
00:26:56And we have to take it.
00:26:58And then we see, and my next video that I wanted to show isn't working, so you're not going
00:27:03to get it, but then we see a really well-constructed choreo sequence.
00:27:11And this slide up here, you don't even need to show it, Steve, it's okay.
00:27:16Take it back.
00:27:18This was to follow the video.
00:27:21But it was a young man doing, it was quite a long choreo.
00:27:27It had a lot of kind of cool moves in it.
00:27:30He did some of those exploding little, whatever you call them, I don't know.
00:27:34And he did, I think he did Ediebauer, he did a Spreagle, he did a Spiral, and he did,
00:27:39I think he did a lot, maybe.
00:27:41Yeah.
00:27:41But everything lasted like hardly even a second.
00:27:45Very rushed.
00:27:45It was very rushed.
00:27:47And he also had crossovers between all of them.
00:27:51So when I say it was well-constructed, it was well-constructed in that it had a lot
00:27:56of different movements, but they were not quality movements.
00:28:00And there was no connection in between.
00:28:05It almost...
00:28:06Oh, you can play it now?
00:28:08You've got it queued up on the time?
00:28:09Okay.
00:28:10All right.
00:28:10Steve's going to play this for us, because...
00:28:13Let's see.
00:28:13You can show it.
00:28:14Yeah.
00:28:14Yeah.
00:28:16Yeah.
00:28:17Yeah.
00:28:17Yeah.
00:28:17Yeah.
00:28:17Yeah.
00:28:17Yeah.
00:28:18Yeah.
00:28:18Yeah.
00:28:18Yeah.
00:28:18Yeah.
00:28:18Yeah.
00:28:19Yeah.
00:28:19Yeah.
00:28:19Yeah.
00:28:20Yeah.
00:28:20Yeah.
00:28:20Yeah.
00:28:20Yeah.
00:28:21Yeah.
00:28:22Yeah.
00:28:22Yeah.
00:28:23Yeah.
00:28:24Yeah.
00:28:25Yeah.
00:28:26Yeah.
00:28:27Yeah.
00:28:28Yeah.
00:28:28Yeah.
00:28:29Yeah.
00:28:30Yeah.
00:28:31Yeah.
00:28:32Yeah.
00:28:33Yeah.
00:28:34Yeah, he's done, but you could see that he did all a lot of movements and I think there
00:28:44might even have been some just before it, but there was no like a commitment to any of
00:28:50the movements.
00:28:51And I think if we'd had the music, you would see that it did not highlight the choreography.
00:28:57It's fine.
00:28:58It's all good.
00:28:59It's fine.
00:29:00It's all good.
00:29:01So, oh, maybe they could hear the music.
00:29:02They could hear the music.
00:29:03Okay.
00:29:04All right.
00:29:05Okay.
00:29:06It didn't highlight the choreography.
00:29:08Yeah.
00:29:09Yeah.
00:29:10Yeah.
00:29:11Yeah.
00:29:12So, and that's...
00:29:13You said something to me earlier.
00:29:14That this is a musical element.
00:29:15And so we really want to see that effort that it goes to the music with nice, strong connections
00:29:21in between the movements.
00:29:24And it really does impact your GOE if you don't.
00:29:27So there's now two, you know, reductions we can take.
00:29:30Partly or fully does not correspond to the music as a minus one to a minus four reduction.
00:29:36And then new is that does not highlight the choreography.
00:29:38And then we still got the lack of connection between and we have small pattern and we have
00:29:43a lot of different things.
00:29:44So, so then on this, the, I think you, you saw the little clip of him.
00:29:49I couldn't find any, you can keep that one up now because I couldn't find any positive
00:29:53bullets.
00:29:54And then there's just all these reductions they can apply, which Shannon just went through.
00:29:58So I went back to the, I found the judges marks from the competition he was at last year
00:30:06and every judge was in the minuses.
00:30:10So five minus threes, two minus twos and two minus ones.
00:30:13So I think by watching that boy, you would see that he was very capable of more.
00:30:18He just, he just kind of went, eh, I'm doing this.
00:30:21I don't, you know, it's, I'm, I'm resting.
00:30:24I'm resting.
00:30:25And you see it used often as a rest moment in the program, but.
00:30:29And I don't mind it being a rest moment because they've perhaps, they're not doing
00:30:33the powerful, like getting ready for a jump or whatever.
00:30:36I have a different kind of energy, but still the energy needs to be there.
00:30:41There needs to be.
00:30:42Some commitment.
00:30:43A commitment.
00:30:44And there is still a different kind of energy that we need to see.
00:30:46I didn't really see any energy from that young man.
00:30:49Okay.
00:30:50So no more on choreos.
00:30:52A quick reminder of falls and serious errors, having to be reflected in each mark, each component
00:31:00mark, if there's falls or serious errors.
00:31:02And basically the consequence depends on the severity and impact they have on the fluidity
00:31:07and continuity of the program.
00:31:10So what's this?
00:31:13Hmm.
00:31:14I'm not even sure.
00:31:16Just a second.
00:31:17Oh, this was like, this is also about, is this a fall?
00:31:23Okay.
00:31:24So take a look.
00:31:26Oops.
00:31:27There's a difficult exit and guess what folks, she got, it got called as a fall because she's
00:31:37lost her balance and her hands are down.
00:31:39So, yeah.
00:31:40So just be really aware of, sometimes a fall is not an obvious fall that comes up on your,
00:31:46the sheet, but there was.
00:31:47Clear loss of control.
00:31:48Yeah.
00:31:49Clear loss of control.
00:31:50Yeah.
00:31:51Yeah.
00:31:52I think this one is another one.
00:31:54Here she comes.
00:31:59Nice.
00:32:00Whoops.
00:32:01Whoops.
00:32:02Whoops.
00:32:03So again, the tech panel may call that a fall.
00:32:05So falls are reviewed by the technical panel in real time.
00:32:11Um, and again, it's majority making the decision.
00:32:15So for judges and for coaches to, um, have a, always be aware of the program component
00:32:22sheets that they have this box in it that explains what you do when there's all these errors,
00:32:28um, and how high you can be.
00:32:30Now, looking at these, this range of marks, um, it's really important to know that just because
00:32:39the skater isn't getting, um, eight to 8.75, two or more serious own errors, we do apply
00:32:47the same, um, concept all the way down.
00:32:51So, um, if, if we're giving our skaters in the five, say their components are in the fives
00:32:58and there's a ton of errors, like a lot, a lot of errors.
00:33:01Now we have to reflect that in our components and reduce, you know, probably 0.5 probably in
00:33:06skating skills sometimes or sometimes it's 0.75 depending on how the errors have affected
00:33:11the program.
00:33:12So, um, and it used to be for judges just to be aware, you know, it used to be you, you
00:33:19didn't have to take it considered in all components.
00:33:23But now, um, actually there used to be a question on an exam.
00:33:27I remember this, which component is affected when there's a fall?
00:33:32And, and they listed all, I said all of them.
00:33:35I was wrong.
00:33:36It was like presentation or it was, they didn't have presentation.
00:33:39What did we call it back there?
00:33:40Performance.
00:33:41Performance and something else.
00:33:42And I said, well, anyways, there was no clear answer.
00:33:45And now, as you said, falls or serious errors affect all program components.
00:33:52Again, depending on the severity.
00:33:54So, and how that, um, the skater lets it affect them in their performance too.
00:34:00Okay.
00:34:02Um, this is the same, carrying on the same thing.
00:34:06I have a couple of, okay.
00:34:08So Hillary showed this.
00:34:09Um, I'm not going to watch it.
00:34:10We're not going to watch it.
00:34:11These two, but Hillary showed, um, um, in the summer, she showed the video of, of Kevin
00:34:19Amos in one, um, one performance was at European championships.
00:34:27And the other one was, I think at Skate America.
00:34:30So at Skate America, he was like, he was on.
00:34:33And the whole thing was like amazing.
00:34:35Like just bingo, bingo, bongo.
00:34:38He was carried on.
00:34:39He did those quad jumps at the beginning and it was wonderful.
00:34:42And then at Europeans, his first jump went sideways.
00:34:46And then his next one went sideways, like both down, I think, or maybe one was a pop
00:34:52and one was down.
00:34:53And then his whole, the whole performance changed after that.
00:34:58And, um, as only to me, only the real, the real ones with real grit will dig down and
00:35:07go, I'm still performing for you.
00:35:09It doesn't matter that I fell.
00:35:10You're going to forget all that by the end of the program because I'm just going to carry
00:35:13on.
00:35:14Anyways.
00:35:15And some skaters do that for us and it doesn't affect my components as much.
00:35:19So, uh, you know, if in training, whatever, even when I monitor, sometimes say if you've
00:35:25got that error, but it's, it's one error.
00:35:28And if you're going to let it carry over for the whole program, then it's going to show
00:35:32in our components.
00:35:33Yeah.
00:35:34So if, you know, if a skater can kind of, you know, park it, as Susan would say, or
00:35:41in tennis, my, my partner says, well, I just flush it down the toilet.
00:35:45Sorry.
00:35:46My bad shot.
00:35:48Whatever.
00:35:49Like if you can get rid of that error in your mind and carry on performing, the judges just
00:35:54really appreciate that.
00:35:55And they aren't struggling to pull their marks out later.
00:35:59Yeah.
00:36:00So that's it for, for that part.
00:36:03Now we're going to do my favorite part.
00:36:05I have to say, have you got some, uh, any, um, just checking right now.
00:36:10Anyways.
00:36:11Nope.
00:36:12Not yet.
00:36:13So if you attended the update at summer skate, you will recall discussion of the spin position
00:36:18requirements in star kind of star two to four, I think.
00:36:21Yep.
00:36:22And you weren't there.
00:36:23I was not there, but I know them.
00:36:26I had a little debate I did with somebody over whether the position needed to be held,
00:36:31the basic position needed to be held for two revs to be counted.
00:36:35And guess what?
00:36:36It does at all levels.
00:36:37I know we went back and forth on this.
00:36:39I had a meeting, uh, like a video call with, um, program development at Skate Canada.
00:36:47And they said, yes, it's always been that way.
00:36:50It's never changed.
00:36:51I think the wording, um, we have some clarification for the spin in a combo spin, um, in star three
00:36:58and four that, um, a lot of judges need to just be aware of.
00:37:03And it's, it's in the new guide, but, um, but we will get there.
00:37:07So, and then also, um, oh, this is perfect.
00:37:10So, um, sometimes we've seen an invalid spin and you will only ever mark an invalid spin,
00:37:18um, if it's got less than three revs in it.
00:37:21Who cares what anything else it had?
00:37:23It will only be invalid if there's not three revs.
00:37:26So that's just a little reminder there.
00:37:29And if you're on a panel and perhaps somebody thinks it's invalid because they never hit any position,
00:37:34blah, blah, blah, but it's still got three, three revs.
00:37:36It's not invalid.
00:37:37It's a bronze.
00:37:38So, um, and to be this, uh, assessed at silver in star, carry on, you go.
00:37:47For the combination spin?
00:37:48Yeah.
00:37:49Okay.
00:37:50So there has been.
00:37:51No, let's go to star two, the camel spin or the sit spin.
00:37:54Okay.
00:37:55So they have the choice at star two, whether to do a camel spin or a sit spin and position matters.
00:38:01So we, again, as judges are looking to make sure that the skaters achieve whichever position
00:38:08they're choosing and hold it for the two revs in order to meet the definition of the spin.
00:38:13Perfect.
00:38:14Okay.
00:38:15We'll show you a couple of videos in a minute.
00:38:16And, um, and then for star three and four, the combination spin, carry on.
00:38:21Again, there's been some clarification this year, which is helpful.
00:38:25Um, and it actually says in the guide that in order to receive a silver rating, the skater
00:38:31must attempt all three basic positions and attain either the sit or the camel.
00:38:37So we're looking for that, uh, two revs in position and either the sit or the camel plus the upright.
00:38:44Plus the upright.
00:38:45So, so, um, they can do leg goes up in a camel and they don't even get anywhere.
00:38:51It's fine.
00:38:52It may be a half a rev.
00:38:54They got down in their sit and held it for two.
00:38:56Yeah.
00:38:57They got in an upright.
00:38:58Maybe they did a change foot upright and they went around enough times for more than two revs
00:39:02or two revs.
00:39:03They will get it.
00:39:04I'm not saying they're going to get a silver.
00:39:06A minimum.
00:39:07I'm not going to say they're going to get a silver.
00:39:08They're eligible for silver.
00:39:09I'm not going to say they're going to get a silver because they have to meet other criteria
00:39:12as well in the spin.
00:39:13But the basic position requirement has been met.
00:39:17So in three and four, that combination spin, they must try all three and then they must
00:39:22get two.
00:39:23So that can be upright camel or upright spit, sit.
00:39:27It could also be, in my humble opinion, camel and sit.
00:39:31If they did two in a camel and two in a sit, as long as they tried the upright and didn't
00:39:36quite maybe get around for two in it, that's still okay.
00:39:39That's right.
00:39:40Yeah.
00:39:41Okay.
00:39:42For that, same with that combination spin.
00:39:47If only two positions are attempted, so this is the last bullet on that slide, but they
00:39:53only try two of them.
00:39:54So that maybe they only do a sit and an upright, or maybe we only see a camel sit and then they're
00:39:59gone.
00:40:00They've only tried two positions, so they can only get a bronze.
00:40:04We must see them try all three positions to be eligible for silver.
00:40:08Yeah.
00:40:09Okay.
00:40:10So I have a couple of videos that I've just pulled out of some star competitions.
00:40:15Shannon's going to help me walk through this.
00:40:18I think this first one's pretty clear.
00:40:20Yeah.
00:40:21So that's a clear example of not achieving the three revs.
00:40:34So that becomes an invalid spin.
00:40:36Invalid spin.
00:40:37Okay.
00:40:38She was cute.
00:40:39Very cute.
00:40:40Okay.
00:40:41So now let's go to another one.
00:40:42I've got two here.
00:40:44First of all, we'll show.
00:40:45Start two.
00:40:46Just keep going because it doesn't matter spin right after.
00:40:49Okay.
00:40:50Just keep going because it doesn't matter spin right after.
00:40:52Okay.
00:40:53Okay.
00:40:54Shannon, talk through that one.
00:40:55Okay.
00:40:56So the first spin, she was attempting the sit spin, star two, but she doesn't get her position.
00:41:09She never actually achieved the sit position.
00:41:10So she's not eligible for a sit.
00:41:11Okay.
00:41:12Now I'm on panel.
00:41:13Yeah.
00:41:14We only just saw it that time the same as you all did on the screen.
00:41:16Well, I think she did get a sit for two.
00:41:17Okay.
00:41:18And the other assessor says, I'm kind of borderline.
00:41:19Let's, I'm okay with sit for two.
00:41:20Okay.
00:41:21And we don't have video.
00:41:22Okay.
00:41:23Okay.
00:41:24So the first spin, she was attempting the sit spin, star two, but she doesn't get her position.
00:41:25She never actually achieved the sit position.
00:41:26So she's not eligible for a sit position.
00:41:28Okay.
00:41:29Now I'm on panel.
00:41:30Yeah.
00:41:31We only just saw it that time the same as you all did on the screen.
00:41:34Well, I think she did get a sit for two.
00:41:36Okay.
00:41:37And the other assessor says, I'm kind of borderline, let's, I'm okay with sit for two.
00:41:45And we don't have video replay.
00:41:46No.
00:41:47I'm not sure that everyone realizes that on the star one to four events.
00:41:50So it is a panel discussion and it's very common that this happens.
00:41:53Now I'm a tech panel official as is Sharon and she did not, Sharon, sorry, Shannon.
00:41:58She did not get in the sit position for two, but it's, it's quick.
00:42:03It's, it's a bit of a gray area.
00:42:05Maybe at one competition, that spin is going to get called bronze and then another competition
00:42:10it might get called silver.
00:42:11So that's maybe this little discussion here is for coaches to understand sometimes why
00:42:17there's a difference, but from one competition to another.
00:42:21Also that it's very quick when we see that and they're onto the next thing.
00:42:26She was on into another spin right away.
00:42:28So like right away.
00:42:29So then we had to watch that and it was invalid.
00:42:32Yeah.
00:42:33So she, okay.
00:42:34But when she did that one, she kind of, her foot down, went down and then she did some
00:42:37more spins.
00:42:38So can you count it?
00:42:39She did.
00:42:40No.
00:42:41So we're just taking the first attempt that the skater does.
00:42:43And she only had, I think, barely one rep before she lost her balance.
00:42:47Okay.
00:42:48Now let's look at this one.
00:42:49Same spin, a sit spin.
00:42:50And then I think the next one actually is in bronze as well.
00:42:53Okay.
00:42:54So another little star two skater.
00:42:56But in your dreams, whatever they be, dream a little dream of me.
00:43:10I cut it off too soon.
00:43:11Okay.
00:43:12Tell me about her.
00:43:13Okay.
00:43:14So going back again to her first sit spin, this skater, we actually did see that she clearly
00:43:19was able to get down into her sit spin, which was nice.
00:43:24Now we just need to make sure that she's holding that position for a full two revs.
00:43:28And the skater did one clear rev in the sit position.
00:43:32So again, it would be a bronze.
00:43:35It would be.
00:43:36Yes.
00:43:37But yeah, somebody might've said, oh, I think she got two.
00:43:39But again, it's, I think in that one, I was, I was actually fairly clear that she didn't
00:43:43get two.
00:43:44But I just want you to be aware that it is a panel decision.
00:43:48It's split seconds sometimes to make that decision.
00:43:52And we are always going benefit to the skater.
00:43:56But we, I don't think that even as coaches or parents, even, or even the skater themselves,
00:44:01they wouldn't want us always be giving them something when they didn't get it.
00:44:04So a skater knows when they've achieved it or when they haven't generally.
00:44:08So we're not, when I say benefit to skater, that's when there's a question and it's very borderline.
00:44:14So not when like, it's not just to be kind.
00:44:18Yes.
00:44:19Even though we like to be kind.
00:44:20Yeah.
00:44:21Okay.
00:44:22Let's look at another spin.
00:44:23Dream a little dream.
00:44:24What's happened here?
00:44:25Okay.
00:44:26So now this is star three and we have a change combo spin.
00:44:29So Shannon will walk, play this one.
00:44:33Oh shit.
00:44:34So what do you think?
00:44:35So again, I think this would probably lead to some discussion on your, your panel.
00:44:52Um, but she attempted the camel, the sit and the upright, which is what we want to see.
00:44:57Uh, I had her in the sit and the upright.
00:45:00I would not have given credit for the camel because of it bobbling, but she did have the
00:45:04two.
00:45:05And so it would be, in my opinion, a silver.
00:45:07Yes.
00:45:08And it's definitely eligible for silver.
00:45:09Yeah.
00:45:10And, and it's possible a panel might've also said she had the camel.
00:45:13I still don't think for the quality there that she would get a gold.
00:45:16No.
00:45:17So she probably would, she probably does have enough of the other criteria that that would
00:45:20be a silver.
00:45:21A silver.
00:45:22And, um, yeah.
00:45:23So, and that was, she definitely was in the sit and the upright.
00:45:26So for two.
00:45:27Okay.
00:45:28Next one.
00:45:29I'm not doing this very well.
00:45:31Oh, hang on.
00:45:34Oh, here we go.
00:45:37I had, I had two slides up there at once.
00:45:39Okay.
00:45:40Okay.
00:45:41What do you think of that one?
00:45:44Okay.
00:45:45So another, uh, example where she did all three basic positions that we want to see,
00:46:05much clearer attempt, you know, in the, in the camel.
00:46:08And I think, you know, it was, it was very close, if not the full tube.
00:46:12Oh, yeah.
00:46:13I thought they were really good positions too.
00:46:15Yeah.
00:46:16So I can see that one.
00:46:17I don't have all my criteria in front of me, but I could see it as being a gold.
00:46:20Yeah.
00:46:21Yeah.
00:46:22For sure.
00:46:23Okay.
00:46:24And then I missed one.
00:46:25So let's see this later.
00:46:26This other one.
00:46:27Yeah.
00:46:28We see this a lot, you know, um, she attempted all three positions, but she did not get two
00:46:41in position in the camel or in the sit.
00:46:43So that would be.
00:46:44Oh, you didn't think she got two in the camel?
00:46:45Yeah.
00:46:46We'll see.
00:46:47This would be a, all right, let's go back here.
00:46:48One.
00:46:49One.
00:46:50No, she didn't.
00:46:51No.
00:46:52One.
00:46:53No, she didn't.
00:46:54Okay.
00:46:55But on panel, because we don't have video replay, we would have that discussion.
00:46:57We would have.
00:46:58I would have gone, I would have gone, yes, she did.
00:47:00And again, we don't have it.
00:47:02So that's where you see, um, different assessments at different competitions and different panels.
00:47:10And it's not that somebody doesn't know because I know what I'm doing, you know what
00:47:14you're doing, but we're sometimes seeing it maybe our, where the leg went up.
00:47:19I started in a, a little bit earlier than you do to be in position and we cannot look
00:47:23at it again.
00:47:24So that's right.
00:47:25But, um, that's definitely eligible for silver because she tried all three and she definitely.
00:47:31Oh.
00:47:32Not in that one.
00:47:33You said she didn't get either.
00:47:34So I didn't give her either.
00:47:35Oh, so that would be bronze.
00:47:36So we would have a bronze because she didn't, she had the upright, but she did not have
00:47:39a camel or a set.
00:47:40Okay.
00:47:41And we can't spend a lot of time arguing this on panel.
00:47:44Okay.
00:47:45I didn't run this by her first.
00:47:46But we would have another judge on panel with us.
00:47:49Yes.
00:47:50And it would be quick.
00:47:51It has to be a quick decision.
00:47:52I'm a silver.
00:47:53I, I'm giving her the blah, blah, blah.
00:47:55Yeah.
00:47:56But, and then they might all have said, no, it was a bronze.
00:47:58Yeah.
00:47:59Yeah.
00:48:00Okay.
00:48:01So, I'm going to put her set on spins.
00:48:02Oh, here.
00:48:03Let's see a nice star four back upright spin.
00:48:08This is a time to get to star four.
00:48:11You'll actually see the same way down here.
00:48:14Upright spins.
00:48:15Yeah.
00:48:16Thought I'd finish with that one.
00:48:20So, I know you think that back upright spin coaches for them doing it the lower is
00:48:26like, oh, nobody ever gets it.
00:48:27It's too hard.
00:48:28It's too, but it's a really good development for their, their jumps too.
00:48:34And so, by the time they get to star four, they can, most skaters can do this pretty efficiently,
00:48:39proficiently.
00:48:40Yeah.
00:48:41We'd see nice ones for sure.
00:48:42Okay.
00:48:43All right.
00:48:44So, we're just about out of time.
00:48:45Oh, we're doing pretty well in there.
00:48:47Okay.
00:48:48Um, I've been asked a few questions over the year.
00:48:52I just keep a file with all my emails.
00:48:54So, uh, here we go.
00:48:56Uh, jump combination with oiler in between two jumps.
00:49:00Somebody just asked me this recently.
00:49:02Um, is that a, is it a, can we, can we use the oiler?
00:49:05Is it a combination?
00:49:06I said, oh, absolutely.
00:49:07It's a combination, but in star, there's no three jump, uh, combos permitted.
00:49:13So, what would be called would be the first jump plus the oiler.
00:49:16And the third jump would show on the report card as invalid and it wouldn't get any points.
00:49:21So, my recommendation is don't put an oiler in between jumps in star.
00:49:25That's right.
00:49:26Okay.
00:49:27Keep it simple.
00:49:28Yeah.
00:49:29Um, adult skaters and the showcase event with other club skaters.
00:49:32Like I had this email asking like the skater had, you know, in a previous life kind of
00:49:37had achieved, um, a certain level of skating, but they're not at that level now.
00:49:42Like, what do I do?
00:49:44Cause they wanted to do it for, it was almost more like it was a club event, but could they
00:49:48go in it?
00:49:49I said, they can go in it.
00:49:50Um, and adult skating, um, in Canada, the adults self identify.
00:49:55So, they identify what level they feel that they are at for entering competition.
00:50:02So, adult self identify.
00:50:04So, they would go into the category that, um, kind of matches their, their level that they're
00:50:09at now.
00:50:10Um, next question was, oh, we've had this lots lately.
00:50:14Um, so I think you all are aware as coaches, the new restrictions for skaters who compete
00:50:19at sectionals.
00:50:20So, we're not, um, permitting them anymore to enter star free skate events in the region
00:50:25competitions.
00:50:26Uh, the question has been, can they enter individual and team elements?
00:50:31And the answer is, yes, they may.
00:50:33Okay.
00:50:34It's just for those free skate events, um, to keep the star skaters, um, um, feeling that
00:50:42they aren't being, um, ganged up on by those skaters who already went to sectionals.
00:50:47Something for them.
00:50:48Yes.
00:50:49And, uh, a better balance of what's happening in there.
00:50:53And the last question, uh, oh, yeah, is star five free skate.
00:50:59Okay.
00:51:00I've been asked this a lot this year and there's like, if they do two, no, it's, you
00:51:04don't need to look at it.
00:51:05I know the answer.
00:51:06All right.
00:51:07If they execute two single axle jumps, do they have to, must they do one in isolation
00:51:12or could they both be in combination?
00:51:14Um, they don't have to do one in combination.
00:51:18You can do, or sorry, they don't have to do one by itself.
00:51:21You can do axle toe and you could do axle loop and they still count.
00:51:26Um, they do choose to do one.
00:51:28If they choose to do two in isolation, one of them will get a rep, a plus rep.
00:51:32Right.
00:51:33But there's no requirement that one has to be done by itself.
00:51:36Okay.
00:51:37I think that, oh, and then I had the choreo sequence question.
00:51:40Um, the pattern, must it be end to end?
00:51:44And does the inclusion of the axle jump meet the actual require, axle requirements?
00:51:49So, um, this is the definition.
00:51:52I'll just keep it up there on the slide.
00:51:53There's no fixed requirement of end to end or side barrier to side barrier.
00:51:58It just has to be visible.
00:52:00This is the choreo sequence because we have them in star two.
00:52:03And it has to include movements that are fairly obvious to be identified by the tech panel and judges.
00:52:08Um, this again, it's from the technical panel handbook of what, you know, the definition of the choreo.
00:52:15And there it says, the pattern is unrestricted, but the sequence must be clearly visible.
00:52:21Um, and then the question about putting an axle in it.
00:52:27So you can put a jump in a choreo sequence.
00:52:30It's not called.
00:52:31They don't, the tech panel doesn't do anything with it.
00:52:34It doesn't take a box.
00:52:36And so that will not check off the axle requirement.
00:52:38So maybe don't do it.
00:52:40No.
00:52:41Um, yeah, don't do that.
00:52:42And then my other recommendation is just don't, for me personally, don't put a jump in a choreo sequence.
00:52:50Because the judges may think, because of the definition of choreo, it, um, it ends at the start of the next element.
00:52:59And so if it wasn't a triple jump or something, if it's a lower level and they're doing a single jump or whatever,
00:53:04we, we might think that is the next element and wait for it to come up.
00:53:10And maybe the tech panel sees it's carrying on and it's still the choreo.
00:53:13Like, it's confusing.
00:53:15Like, keep it, keep it simple.
00:53:18Do your clear movements in a choreo sequence.
00:53:21Put stuff in between them and do quality movements that fit to the music.
00:53:26Don't, don't, um, muddy the waters with a jump that make me go,
00:53:30where's the jump for me to put in the GOE?
00:53:33Okay.
00:53:34Agreed.
00:53:35Um, that was all my questions I had this season.
00:53:38Um, I would like to though talk just, if we have a minute, um, reminders for pattern dance.
00:53:45Because we're seeing, um, it's really nice to see more solo dance happening in the region events,
00:53:52but also in our section events.
00:53:54Um, this is important for any level.
00:53:58You must start the pattern dance with the first step of the dance on the side of the judges.
00:54:02So, um, Shannon, what do you do if you're the referee and they've started on the wrong side?
00:54:11So as a referee, I would get the skater's attention and stop them and have them restart so that the dance, the first pattern.
00:54:18There's, there's no consequence.
00:54:20There's no consequence.
00:54:21Um, but, and you would probably just get the music player to stop the music.
00:54:24Yeah, just stop the music.
00:54:25So just, uh, so for coaches who are preparing those little kids for doing a pattern dance,
00:54:30they need to have their first side in front of the judges.
00:54:33That's the rule worldwide.
00:54:35Uh, the next thing is, um, this is a, um, a deduction that not everybody's aware of.
00:54:41I actually haven't had to take it, but I got really close once.
00:54:45So when they finish their dance, they do all these little embellishments and they keep going.
00:54:49Um, but they're, if they're still going after 20 seconds, it's, it's like a time violation in free skating.
00:54:56So they've got, it's one, one point off for up to five seconds over two for 10, et cetera.
00:55:02So just be aware that 20 seconds is pretty long actually too, but as the referee, um, you need to know,
00:55:09you can go back to me for a minute, Steve.
00:55:12You need to know as referee, uh, what is the first step of the dance?
00:55:15And what is the last step of the dance?
00:55:17I mean, we all know our dances, but actually physically on paper,
00:55:21what is the final step when you start your stopwatch to time?
00:55:25That's right.
00:55:26Okay.
00:55:27So just, um, think.
00:55:28And then, um, did you know that all pattern dances have levels?
00:55:32Um, so most pattern dances, they get level one.
00:55:38Yeah.
00:55:39Occasionally they get level base.
00:55:41And I don't know if I've ever seen the one that got no value.
00:55:45They would have had to have missed the whole, whole thing.
00:55:47Yeah.
00:55:48But basically it's based on the number of steps completed.
00:55:51So if you're a referee on these events and there's no technical panel, the tech, the referee
00:55:58must look after this.
00:56:00So, um, you, the number of steps, if they miss, if they complete 75% of the dance, of
00:56:07the steps, number of steps, it doesn't matter if they did the wrong steps, as long as they,
00:56:11like, have steps, have steps, uh, if they do 75% and that's pretty much always happening,
00:56:16it's a level one.
00:56:17If it's between 50% and 75%, maybe due to a fall and they've missed a whole whack of them,
00:56:23then it's level base.
00:56:25Okay.
00:56:26Um, how do you know this?
00:56:28Okay.
00:56:29So if you can go to my slide there, the referee has to look after this and there is a document
00:56:35on the website called the pattern dance procedure for referees without technical panel.
00:56:41And, oh, how come I didn't show up when I clicked up there?
00:56:44It's on my screen.
00:56:45Oh, I have to go to the next slide.
00:56:46No.
00:56:47Oh, well.
00:56:48Okay.
00:56:49Um, I thought I put my links in and it would work.
00:56:51It doesn't matter.
00:56:52So it's, um, it's on the official's resources under ice dance.
00:56:57And if you're refereeing a pattern dance event at a competition, regionals too, with all those
00:57:03solo dances, again, it's, and it's not for the ones that are assessed, start two, three,
00:57:09four.
00:57:10Yeah.
00:57:11They, those are different, but the higher level ones, then, uh, you need to just maybe
00:57:17have a good read of this document.
00:57:18So you understand what it is you're doing as the referee.
00:57:21Yeah.
00:57:22Have it with you on panel even.
00:57:23Yes.
00:57:24Yeah.
00:57:25Um, and then, um, the other thing is to have, um, the, um, yeah, your, your best friend is
00:57:32this other document that I've linked to, but it's not going to show up.
00:57:35Um, the pattern, pattern dance competition technical requirements, I think it's on the
00:57:42ice dance page.
00:57:44Yep.
00:57:45And it's a skate Canada document.
00:57:46And I called it my best friend because it has every single dance.
00:57:51It has the patterns and it was updated this last year, this year, I think maybe this year,
00:57:57this year again.
00:57:58And they've, they've got the number of steps.
00:58:00It's got the number, how long it should take to do it.
00:58:03And they're having to time is every, all the information is on that one page for that one
00:58:07dance.
00:58:08So it's an excellent resource.
00:58:10And, um, I actually have it printed off in my, in my binder.
00:58:16My big binder.
00:58:17Yeah.
00:58:18I brought my binder with you.
00:58:19So look at my, my binder is literally falling apart.
00:58:22Oh yeah.
00:58:23I have to get a new one after all these years.
00:58:26I don't have many more years to do it.
00:58:27So, but I'm not going to, I'll find a new binder.
00:58:30Uh, so, but if you're doing pattern dance, please be aware that, um, certainly at regional
00:58:36competitions, you'll be asked to put in the level and, um, also to, to time whether they
00:58:42finish in time.
00:58:43Okay.
00:58:44Um, there's, we're, we're just about done.
00:58:47Last slide.
00:58:48Uh, there's a couple of recent postings on the BC website.
00:58:52Um, I discovered last night, thanks to, well, who emailed me?
00:58:57I'm sorry, I should remember your name.
00:58:59Anyways, a coach emailed me asking, um, because the quick reference guide that was posted said
00:59:06that adult silver had five jumps, but the Skate Canada other document, the big one with everything
00:59:12in it, the program requirements said four jumps.
00:59:15I went, uh, so I went back to the Skate Canada website and they did an update, but I don't
00:59:22think we got flagged that it was done.
00:59:25So I never posted it.
00:59:26It's posted now.
00:59:27So the quick reference guide is posted for adults and there's several categories now that said five
00:59:34jumps and now they are corrected to four jumps, which matches what is in the adult program
00:59:40requirements guide.
00:59:41So if you previously printed off the adult quick reference guide, you might want to print it off again.
00:59:46And they're hot.
00:59:47They're highlighted in yellow.
00:59:48So you'll see.
00:59:49And then I also just posted a BCYT program times and warmup times document.
00:59:55Um, cause there seems to be a lot of sometimes confusion over the warmup times.
01:00:01Just so you know, we don't exactly follow the warmup times prescribed in the Skate Canada rulebook
01:00:07for some of our, for our lower categories.
01:00:11And so I've created a document that has every category we do in BC, how long the program is,
01:00:19but also how long the warmup is.
01:00:21So, and that is under officials resources, um, referee resources.
01:00:28And I think I also posted it on the technical page.
01:00:30I can't remember.
01:00:31So, and then the final one is this podium pathway ice dance technical requirements guide.
01:00:36Uh, that was just updated last week and it's reposted.
01:00:41Shannon, what's the change in it?
01:00:43Uh, there've been a lot of change, little small, little changes.
01:00:47So keep watching that dance one.
01:00:48Um, this is for the judges really.
01:00:50Yeah.
01:00:51Um, it's, it's about regarding stops in the rhythm dance, uh, separation, separation.
01:00:57Sorry.
01:00:58In the rhythm dance.
01:00:59Um, it was just, they took off a, it was an and, or, you know, that they can separate for turns and, or.
01:01:05Steps.
01:01:06And now it's just an or.
01:01:08Oh, I'm pretty sure.
01:01:11Anyways, it's.
01:01:12Um, but there have been a few little small updates, um, in the last few weeks.
01:01:18So definitely go back and make records to that document.
01:01:21I try to indicate what the change was when I post, but I don't always.
01:01:26So I, I never print off a whole new document.
01:01:29I just take my other one and make the change high.
01:01:31Yeah.
01:01:32Save some trees.
01:01:33Um, okay.
01:01:34So that brings us to the end.
01:01:36Unless Shannon, did you get any questions?
01:01:38No.
01:01:39I'm just going to double check.
01:01:40No, nothing.
01:01:41Okay.
01:01:42All right.
01:01:43Uh, if, when this is all over, feel free to text me at, not text me, email me.
01:01:48Please don't text me.
01:01:50At JaniceDHunter at gmail.com.
01:01:54I'm always happy to answer your questions.
01:01:56Or if I don't know the answer, I will get it to clarified in a timely manner.
01:02:01I hope.
01:02:02Um, okay.
01:02:03You're always very good at that.
01:02:05Um, so we are done, uh, a little bit over time, but I think we started a little bit late.
01:02:10So I think we're, we did our one hour thing.
01:02:12I want to thank Shannon for coming in today with her busy life, with her children, getting
01:02:17them off to school.
01:02:19Yay.
01:02:20This morning.
01:02:21Yes.
01:02:22Um, always a pleasure to speak with people and I hope to see you all at a rink soon.
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