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Taylor.2025.S01E02
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00:00I've been doing this for 15 years and I'm tired of it. I'm just tired of the...
00:13Just...
00:15Just feels like it's more than music now at this point.
00:20And just most days I'm like, okay. But then sometimes I'm just like...
00:27It just gets loud sometimes.
00:32Her reaction to it, you know, really shows that the message came through loud and clear for her and it was extremely distressing.
00:39She was the internet's villain and everyone decided to, you know, gang up on that.
00:43Everyone was posting, hashtag Taylor Swift is over party, hashtag Taylor Swift is cancelled.
00:49When there's this false narrative that everyone believes, how do you respond to that?
00:56She goes absolutely radio silent. No one hears from her, no one sees her out in public, which is the antithesis of the Taylor that we had come to know.
01:08Take a look at this photo. See, there's speculation that she may be in that suitcase.
01:15Okay.
01:16I just don't get it. We were used to having access to her. She was an ever-present person in our lives.
01:26She knows at that point that the world is kind of getting sick of her, that they've reached saturation point with Taylor Swift.
01:33And she makes an executive decision to kind of withdraw and kind of cut off access in a way that, you know, wasn't very common for Taylor Swift.
01:42Thank you. Thank y'all very much.
02:04Watching Leanne Rhymes, we see that she has a very unique connection with her fans.
02:11When she is on stage, you know, there's just kind of that unspoken bond.
02:15For Taylor, Leanne Rhymes is the perfect role model to really make connections with fans.
02:20When Taylor was really young, she went to a Leanne Rhymes concert. She's at the very front row.
02:27She looked down and I was like, Leanne, did you get my letters? And she goes, I sure did, Taylor.
02:32And that was, that was the moment where literally it all just clicked for me that if I could ever make one little kid feel that way or one person feel the way she made me feel, then it would all be worth it.
02:43You could see her eyes glow talking about it. That moment, I think, solidified for Taylor how important it is to connect with your fans and how there is no wall if you don't want there to be.
02:58I think that was a really defining moment for Taylor, going to her concert and being seen by Leanne and being respected and understood.
03:07And given the time of day, I think planted that seed of nurturing a fandom and making every single person that she comes across feel that exact same way.
03:20MySpace is an awesome new thing. It's an online website where people can really connect with artists.
03:27Typically, I get about 600 emails a day. I read all the guest book entries. I want to be a part of these people's lives.
03:36I think it's important to keep that personal contact. That's, that's the most fun thing for me is to hear what people think and all the different stories of people the first time they heard the song and how it affected them. I just love all that.
03:48Watching that, you can see it was really important to her to connect with people. The stories that people tell, like she mentioned, she does take those to heart.
03:58She had already been building her bond with her fans and building her brand online. So she knew how to do stuff that the rest of the business had not figured out yet.
04:14I don't know of any Nashville artist that took MySpace as seriously as Taylor took MySpace.
04:26When I saw that she was hand delivering Christmas presents to fans, it didn't surprise me.
04:45These weren't generic gifts. She took the time to go on their social media profiles and find out what they were into, what they were interested in.
05:07She has always been a lover of people. The people have never let her down. So why would you change? Why would you stop?
05:19She took her time and she stepped out of the limelight a little. She had to turn off her comments, which eventually led to her deleting her entire Instagram because it was just flooded with bullying, harassment snakes.
05:33She then returns, not with the kind of typical social media presence that her fans are used to.
05:42I think the whole world stood still when that first snake came to her Instagram and we all knew something was coming, but we couldn't figure out what it was.
05:59And collectively as a fandom, I think we all held our breath.
06:03I absolutely loved the force with which Taylor came back. She took her narrative, she rewrote it, took that motif of a snake that was used so violently against her and made it into an entire era.
06:31Like, wow.
06:33It's gonna go down in history as one of the biggest like moments in pop culture because to be silent unseen for years and then drop that music video.
06:44I don't like your little games. Don't like your tilted stage. The role you made me play.
07:00She is visually showing us the place where the internet left her after this incident in the ground. And here she is a zombie rising out of the ground saying, no, I don't like your games.
07:18Oh, look what you made me do. Look what you made me do. Look what you just made me do. Look what you just made me do.
07:26The idea of look what you made me do. She's telling all the haters and everyone who's been critiquing her, you know, you made me change this. This is your fault.
07:35She is not, you know, playing the victim. She is not playing the wallflower. She is saying, you all were so mean and nasty to me. This is how I'm reacting.
07:43You know, she's reclaiming her narrative. She's reclaiming her reputation.
07:47The world was changed when Taylor said, I'm sorry, Taylor can't come to the phone right now. So iconic.
08:04What's with that bitch? Don't call me that. Y'all. Oh, stop acting like you're all nice. You are so fake.
08:10Oh, there she goes playing the victim again. So by the end, basically, she's also sort of, you know, making fun of herself.
08:20She has all of her old selves and she's basically saying, you know, you're so pathetic.
08:25You know, before anyone else can criticize her, she's criticizing herself, which was a really bold move.
08:30I would very much like to be excluded from this narrative.
08:34Well, you know what, if that's how you're going to think of it, I'm going to get there first.
08:39I'm going to be the one that's mocking myself before you can mock me.
08:44Well, everything reaches saturation, doesn't it? I mean, a brand, chocolates, coffee, whatever we consume.
08:50So a clever brand is constantly replenishing or reinventing itself.
08:55And it's the same with an artist because otherwise you get stuck with the same audience.
09:00So in a way you're heading towards a cliff. It can be like falling off a cliff edge. It can happen overnight.
09:07Over the years, I've worked with some of the greatest names in entertainment, including Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, David Bowie for 40 years, Prince, Michael Jackson, Amy Winehouse, Spice Girls, Sex Pistols.
09:21I mean, a lot. You've got to be brave and you've got to take the risk and keep rewriting the story because fans grow up and fans move on to other things.
09:34So you want to be reinventing yourself. It's a constant, you need that momentum, perpetual momentum.
09:39Taylor's really fantastic the way she does that.
09:43There was a bit of a bait and switch that happened with this album when we put out Look What You Made Me Do and we're like, guys, this album is going to be one thing.
09:51And when the album came out, it's legitimately an album about finding love throughout all the noise.
09:57If you can find something real in spite of a bad reputation, then isn't that what matters the most to you?
10:04I think when you watch this footage of Taylor, she's very much in this big sister mold where she's kind of relatable and protective and strong.
10:15And I think that's what people really appreciate her for.
10:18Reputation is kind of a weird album for me because it's such a shift stylistically.
10:24It was her first album about being in a deep long term relationship.
10:31It was about the start of her relationship with Joe Allen.
10:40Where before she could write a song about somebody that she had broken up with and not worry about their reaction.
10:48Now she's writing a song about the most intimate moments of her life because that's what she's always written about.
10:56The person that she's writing about is still going to want to be around her at the end of the day.
11:03She meets this person and it's like, oh, you're meeting me at the worst, lowest place that I've been in public perception.
11:11And you still like me? Oh, that must mean you really like me.
11:15This ain't for the best. My reputation's never been worse so.
11:20You must like me for me.
11:22What I love about this song, she's singing about a love that she could recede into.
11:29My reputation's never been worse so.
11:32You must like me for me.
11:35It's a calm love. It's a safe love.
11:38It's a love despite the world hating me.
11:41I don't have to listen to all of you because I have this.
11:44And this is, you know, bringing me so much love and joy.
11:56Here comes daddy with the baby home from the hospital and her nanny.
12:02They said it would never happen.
12:05I watched that video so many different times.
12:09Her parents arriving home with Taylor right around Christmas time.
12:14It kind of reminded me of the imagination and fairy tale and the happily ever after.
12:20I think that's something that was instilled in her from her parents and her family.
12:26I was always into all the stories and fairy tales and things like that when I was little.
12:31And, you know, every single night before I go to bed, I'd offer myself to tell me a story.
12:36And I wouldn't settle for anything I'd heard before.
12:39Something that made up stories.
12:41And then at the end of the day, she would just collapse on the top.
12:44Like, I can't anymore.
12:47Above anything else, she romanticizes life in the best way.
12:51I read at one point that she would always fast forward through the villain part of her fairy tales.
12:58Because she just, you know, the happy spots and the happy parts.
13:01And I think that really stems from the fairy tales that she grew up on.
13:06When I had a favorite song when I was growing up, I would always wonder who it was written about.
13:13Also, when people wrote songs with people's names in them, that kind of became a story with a character.
13:18And identify the character, then it becomes a fairy tale.
13:23And then it becomes a story.
13:25And it's real.
13:27And in the real world, the bad guy can be charming and endearing and funny.
13:34You can't tell until it all hits you.
13:37And that's what I write songs about a lot.
13:39The differences between fairy tales and reality.
13:42There's so many.
13:43When we're little, we're taught that, see that bad guy, very obvious.
13:48But in real life, it's not that way at all.
13:51You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs.
14:05Donald Trump can be heard making some extremely crude comments about himself and women.
14:10I have tremendous respect for women.
14:12Have you ever done those things?
14:13And women have respect for me.
14:14And I will tell you, no, I have not.
14:16Women will be silent no more.
14:21Stories flooded social media and painted a picture of just how many people endure sexual abuse and harassment every day.
14:28In Denver today, Taylor Swift testified that a former radio host groped her while they were posing for a photo.
14:41He lost his job and sued the pop star.
14:44She countersued.
14:46They got to hear from Taylor Swift.
14:48They knew that within a couple hours of this happening, she had told her mother.
14:53She was very adamant about what happened.
14:55She was appropriately angry.
14:57In 2017, which is the same year the allegations against Harvey Weinstein are exposed for the first time in the press,
15:04Taylor Swift takes an ex-radio DJ called David Mueller to court.
15:08And she alleges that in 2013, he put his hand up her skirt and sexually assaulted her during a photo meet and greet.
15:16He sues her for defamation and she countersues him for sexual assault.
15:19And the whole thing plays out in court in public.
15:22One of the questions she's asked is, there's a photo of you allegedly being assaulted by this man.
15:28Why isn't the front of your skirt wrinkled?
15:31And then she goes, because my ass is not on the front of my skirt.
15:35The jury sided with the pop star.
15:37She had been assaulted and in keeping with her wishes, Mr. Mueller was ordered to pay a dollar in damages.
15:43It gives courage and inspiration to all people, not just women, but to all people to have the courage to draw lines.
15:52The interesting thing about the MeToo court case is I get the sense that maybe part of her just snapped and said, you know what, actually, I'm not going to stand for this anymore.
16:02Time magazine puts her on the cover with other whistleblowers, including Ashley Judd, who is one of Harvey Weinstein's first victims.
16:10Here is a moment where she just wants to make a point that women want to stand for this kind of treatment.
16:14This day a year ago was the day that the jury decided in my favor and said that they believed me.
16:26I just wanted to say I'm sorry to anyone who ever wasn't believed because I don't know what turn my life would have taken if somebody, if people didn't believe me when I said that something had happened to me.
16:41And so I guess I just wanted to say that we have so, so, so much further to go.
16:49And I'm so grateful to you guys for being there for me during what was a really, really horrible part of my life.
17:00It marks a little bit of a turning point in how open she was willing to be about politics and the stance that she took on issues.
17:07Because following this, she releases a track called You Need to Calm Down, which is about supporting LGBTQ rights as an ally.
17:14The music video was incredibly glossy, filled with LGBTQ plus celebs, and was widely seen to be centering Taylor rather than queer people.
17:36People wanted someone to say something serious and meaningful and deep and thoughtful, and they didn't think that a kind of glossy pop song with a colorful music video cut the mustard, basically.
17:48I think it shows up this idea that Taylor can't win, even when her intentions are good.
17:53Around this time that Taylor starts being a bit more of a political animal, there is a kind of bigger question in the room, right?
18:11With Donald Trump in the White House and America being more divided than ever before.
18:15Is Taylor going to talk about Democrat versus Republican?
18:19Here we be.
18:38So Taylor coming up through country and doing things like performing the national anthem at sports games, really cemented her into this lane of being like a perfect kind of, all American.
18:49and domestic goddess there are people who are critical and younger people too that are critical
18:55that she's not political enough that she's too late to the party with her politics that you know
19:00she's too white like they're they just don't want to give time to a blonde white woman would i make
19:06a good politician i don't know i mean i'm an 18 year old girl it's like i'm not gonna sit here
19:12and go into my political views because um i that's not what i chose to do i chose to do
19:18music but honestly it's just really good to see women progress that's a can statement it's tough
19:23because you're never going to win an argument when it comes to religion or politics period and because
19:30of things that taylor can't control the fact that she's you know young she's blonde she's wealthy
19:36she's white she's american you know taylor has always walked that tightrope if she doesn't
19:43speak about politics she's seen as pandering to the right if she does speak about politics
19:49she's seen as being a performative ally by the left
19:55and i think what changed is that first of all she started getting associated with far-right causes
20:02white supremacists have found an interesting person to idolize taylor swift has been named by
20:08one fringe group of white supremacists and they think that hey you know she's blonde she's white
20:14and she secretly hates the jews adolf hitler quotes were attributed to her and put on pictures of her and
20:21went viral making it seem like she'd said all these awful things and i don't doubt that there will have
20:27been some part of a calculation when it came to speaking out more publicly about politics where she
20:31wanted to distance herself from this kind of heinous fan group that had somehow attached themselves to her
20:43thank you so much for this and i just wanted to make a mention of the fact that this award and
20:48every single award given out tonight were voted on by the people and you know what else is voted on by the
20:54people is the midterm elections on november 6th get out and vote i love you guys i think that's brave to
21:03come out and tell people to vote but what is harder is to come out as a party political animal and to
21:10tell people explicitly to vote for one person over another we are less than three weeks out until the
21:17midterms and tennessee senate candidate marshall blackburn is up in the polls but we know that the
21:22one poll that counts is november 6th then we're determined to be winning on november 6th and the
21:29early vote starts today it all really comes to a head with the 2018 midterm elections where a republican
21:36senator called marshall blackburn from tennessee is up for re-election and this is a senator who has
21:42voted against equal pay against gay rights i can't see another commercial and see her
21:51disguising these policies behind the words tennessee christian values those aren't tennessee
21:58christian values i live in tennessee i am christian that's not what we stand for
22:05i need to do this i need you to just dad need you to forgive me for doing it because i'm doing it
22:10watching the miss americana documentary and her tearful conversation with her father where
22:16it is quite clear that she's asking him for forgiveness for what she's about to do why do
22:22you think taylor swift out of nowhere decided to get political i i this is what i used to love about
22:26taylor swift is she stayed away from politics she uses all about music all about you know female
22:31empowerment yesterday on instagram she wrote i've been reluctant to publicly voice my political opinions
22:36they feel very differently about that now i mean i think many people are impressed and some are
22:44frightened about the fact that taylor swift can send out you know one tweet and 35 000 people will
22:50register to vote in 12 hours right it's having that kind of reach let's say that i like taylor's music
22:58about 25 percent less now okay all right this is the big story singer taylor swift is slamming music
23:10executive scooter brawn after he acquired the record company that owns her music big machine label group
23:16which released taylor swift's first six albums scooter brawn being a great businessman said wait
23:25the taylor swift catalogs available for purchase count me in which brings us to scooter brawn
23:33um yeah here's someone who managed the guy that walked on stage and took my award and
23:42it wasn't about business at that point it was personal
23:46right from the get dog taylor directed the session
24:17we wrote three songs in the first two days that we were together and two of those are on the debut
24:24album taylor swift after we'd written a few songs her dad started saying hey rob look at uh here's
24:31another 15 that she wrote or here's i mean there's i have tons of these these are all from like back way
24:39back i mean she's as young as 11 on some of these i mean most of these never seen the light of day
24:45so here's 16 songs copyright 2003 the same year we started writing none of those are anything you've
24:53you've ever heard anytime i write any song with anybody it goes in a file just like in case someday
24:58it becomes a hit i can go well here's what it looked like before you know the day we wrote it place in this
25:03world it was a really strong idea because it was really what her life is and she just says i don't
25:10know what i want so don't ask me because i'm still trying to figure it out i'm trying to see through the
25:14rain coming down even though i'm the only one who feels the way i do what's cool about that is like
25:20every kid feels that way but millions of kids were able to relate to that line you see what i'm saying
25:26she had a plan and she wasn't going to go off that plan and she was not going to be stopped
25:32and people were telling her no left and right you're too young let these other songwriters guide
25:37you she was having none of that i know there were people that wrote with her that i wrote with that
25:43said yeah i wrote with her it's like she didn't want to listen to my any of my ideas like well yeah did
25:47you listen to her ideas because that's all you need to do
25:51late 2004 i had a regular standing gig at the bluebird cafe and i just suggested maybe
26:02we just do a show at the bluebird what you're trying to do is get all the record labels to come
26:08see the show and give her a recording deal all the major label people show up
26:15i'm looking at him i'm seeing all these big ones there's one guy that is really getting it
26:23and has the eyes closed i get noticing him and after the show he can hide and stop or shut up
26:31because the good news is that i want to set up my own record label and i would like
26:37please consider being one of the first artists and i would believe in you and i'll let you write
26:43your thoughts scott bachetta just came forward and said i'm starting a new label and i want you to be
26:50my first artist and who wouldn't want to hear that big machine was the label that believed in her that
26:59supported her that gave her the ability to do what she wanted to do which was to write her own songs and
27:06to sing and perform her own songs and it was a big risk for scott bachetta to kind of say this is
27:11the artist we're staking everything on so taylor on behalf of big machine records and our partners
27:17universal music group worldwide we are so proud to present to you this plaque that indicates you have
27:24sold more than 20 million records and we had by all accounts a really productive and long and fruitful
27:33relationship up until the point where she left to go to the republic and scott bachetta ended up
27:39selling big machine to scooter bronn taylor swift says her new record deal gives swift more control
27:52over her own music as far as we know republic promised as part of this new deal she will own
28:00all her masters and that was as we'll see a really important thing for taylor she wanted to have
28:05full control over the songs that she was writing and making which she did not get to do with big
28:10machine i knew he would sell my music i knew he would do that i couldn't believe who he sold it to
28:17because we've had endless conversations about scooter bronn and he has 300 million reasons to
28:23conveniently forget those conversations scooter bronn he's the guy who discovered justin bieber he's
28:31responsible for working with people at ariana grande and crucially for this story he is also the person
28:37who worked with connie west during the whole famous saga the definition of the toxic male privilege in
28:47our industry is people saying but he's always been nice to me when i'm raising valid concerns about
28:53artists and their rights to own their music and of course he's nice to you if you're in this room you
29:00have something he needs the fact is that private equity is what enabled this man to think according to
29:07his own social media post that he could buy me but i'm obviously not going willingly i'm watching that
29:17and i'm going oh my goodness she's handling this perfectly it's important for taylor to get the credit
29:25that she deserves especially in a culture where in many cases female artists are not given the credit
29:34that they deserve for the work they put in and if there is one thing that people in nashville know
29:40if you are on the wrong side of taylor swift you're on the wrong side
29:48she writes about it on tumblr and she says that this is her worst case scenario and she compares
29:54him taking control of her masters to him controlling a woman which is quite a bold and audacious claim
30:00right she basically regards scooter brawn as having had a real hand in the kind of harassment and
30:07bullying that she received at the hands of kim kardashian and kanye west justin bieber who is on scooter
30:13brawn's side understandably says why are you saying this you know your fans are going to bully scooter and
30:19lo and behold they do
30:22no one stole her music no one made her sign a bad record deal those were the types of record deals that
30:29everyone signed at that time and scooter brawn made a very good business decision in this story
30:36the decision that taylor made to turn the fans loose on scott and scooter with only half of the
30:43conversation i was a little disappointed death threats started happening people started showing
30:50up at people's houses and this is something that should have been discussed behind the scenes
30:59when it gets to a place where there's death threats and there's offices being called and and
31:06and people being threatened in the manner that i just think it's got out of hand and i think people
31:10need to come together and have a conversation because that's not what this is about that's
31:13not what we got in this industry for the taylor swift fan army the swifties are really protective
31:19of her and i think that comes from this relatability that she's cultivated with them this sense that
31:25she's let them into her inner world and given them in many ways ammunition to go out and take people
31:31on that they perceive to have done her dirty i think the important thing to know is that she didn't
31:36really call them out or tell them to back off they're called fans for a reason it's short for fanatics
31:46now could you re-record oh yeah might you do that oh yeah that's a plan absolutely
31:53in order to wrestle back control of the masters she decides to re-record all the albums that scooter
32:00bra now has the master recordings for
32:09her re-recording the albums is her way of saying you know artists need to own their work like this
32:14is their body of work this is these are their babies these are the things that mean the most to them
32:19and artists deserve to own that and artists deserve to be compensated for their work and artists
32:24deserve to you know be able to have control over their work you know and be able to you know use
32:29it in the way they see fit
32:42with the american music awards performance she's performing
33:03the first song off her new album with a bunch of kids dressed in shirts with the names of all the
33:09albums she's going to re-record the ones that scooter has the masters for and she's performing
33:14a song called the man which is basically all about how she would be treated better if she was a man and
33:19that is widely perceived to be about the treatment she's endured at the hands of someone like scooter
33:24brawn who arguably would probably treat her very differently if she was a male rock star or musician
33:30a musician and i think really it speaks to a kind of deeper narrative that was going on in society
33:37of the time where people especially women were just fed up of being told to kind of sit down and shut up
33:43i started writing in diaries when i was 13 so these are the four deluxe editions of this album and each one
33:57contains um 30 pages of my diary entries from my life um because you know metaphorically i've been
34:06sharing my diaries with you for years so i figured why not just do it taylor's so excited and
34:12yeah i think that sums up who taylor is she just wants to give to her fans august 25th 2003 13 years
34:20of age i think i might just live through this year two exclamation points i just hope i can keep up
34:28this year could be fun i don't care what people think of me now because i won't let them bring me
34:33down watching her there reading her diary entries showed how important it was to her and she has
34:42this deep appreciation for her youth that not many people have having connected with taylor through my
34:51diaries i was like oh my god i was interested to see if she felt the same way that i did when i was her
34:58age like what was she going through i was finally maybe gonna get to have some insight into that
35:07little girl that saved me changed my life i didn't usually post online about taylor except like on her
35:17birthdays i laid everything out on my bed had a laptop propped up and my kitten crawling around and i had
35:26in that pile my demo cd that i had just gotten out because i wanted to listen to it and panned over
35:32it in a very short video uh and i posted it to instagram and i don't know if i just like tagged the
35:38right hashtag or or what but the post got swept up into the instagram swifty fandom people are so interested
35:49in the story somebody had found one of my birthday posts for taylor and it's the picture from 2003 i'll
35:56post it every year just as a memoriam um with sure happy birthday and all of that and then so many people
36:03were interested it was all kindness and love and support and it comforted me it gave me the courage to
36:12tell a little bit of the story the post was shared throughout the fandom it effectively went viral
36:20and generally they were all wanting taylor to meet me so when i got a message on on tumblr having been
36:30in the fandom you know when that message comes through uh it's usually paired with a secret sessions
36:35invitation i was at work my heart dropped i started crying i could not keep it together
36:45you know you get there and taylor has made like a spread of food cookies and pizza and whatever
36:53whatever else she just goes all out and everybody knows we're gonna get ushered into a living room
37:00where we sit down and we listen to the album that nobody's ever heard and you could feel it like the
37:07excitement was just electric and then becomes the time of meet and greet sort of walked into this other
37:15part of the house and like there's taylor and she's smiling and she says my name and everything just
37:25dropped away and she just wraps me up in the biggest hug
37:31i didn't know i needed it and she doesn't let go
37:36she holds on until until you are ready when she talks to you you're the only person in the room
37:42and she wants to know everything and we joked back and forth and she said she liked my hair and like
37:49it was just it was like she was a friend she at one point um thanked me thanked me for being there
37:56like all those years and i i didn't really know i needed to hear that i mean i would have been fine
38:01never hearing that but i i i don't know it broke me in the best way that she appreciated it
38:18she announces this genre-busting world-spanning epic world tour called the eras tour you know it's
38:41a kind of way for her to thank people for sticking with her through every single phase of her life
38:47through the controversies through the scandals and that was certainly borne out by the fact that people
38:52were absolutely dying to get tickets some taylor swift fans may have a ticket master hangover this
38:58morning after trying for hours and i mean hours to buy tickets for her upcoming tour yesterday and
39:04many came up empty-handed fans are still talking about taylor swift's love split yeah with joe alwyn uh
39:27they were together for six years it does seem to be that they have split um it's interesting people
39:32magazine um talking about each source uh said that joe struggled with taylor's level of fame and the
39:39attention from the public there was a video of her that came out of her on the heiress tour singing lover
39:47and she was crying you know it's not a sad song but it's sad because i mean we can only assume you're
39:52no longer with the person you wrote it about yeah
40:07like we see you we hear you we love you and we got you we'll catch you what does she say she um
40:14easy they come easy they go i jump from the train i ride off alone i never grew up it's getting so old
40:21help me hold on to you i just oh my god i could cry just this fear that you're a person that cannot
40:29truly ever hold on to anyone because i'm sure when people look at taylor swift they're like what's
40:34taylor swift like who who could ever leave taylor swift but at the same time like who could ever date
40:41taylor swift like that's yeah that's that's taylor swift that's a lot you know and imagine being her
40:48i think growing up as taylor swift must have been awful because think about it this way she's a
40:55teenage girl when she starts making music she does go to school but she doesn't really finish school in
41:00the kind of traditional sense because she's being homeschooled even that kind of classic coming of
41:05age moment where you move to the big city and get a bunch of new friends dating maybe the wrong kind of
41:10guy you know getting embroiled in messy love affairs even that is up for debate on social media
41:16i think it's enormously difficult to grow up with that kind of scrutiny on you
41:24i think she really is a kind of bellwether for how we as society view women because she is in many
41:30ways the perfect kind of blank space right she's you know conventionally pretty attractive white american
41:37she is a standing for so many of the things that we are worried about that we're concerned about
41:40as a society because she is that kind of perfect miss american girl and you know when you become a
41:47symbol of a much greater whole america itself you are always going to have people who are going to
41:53project a lot of things onto you
42:13you know a mirror ball is the sparkly thing in the room but everyone looks at and goes oh and ah and
42:19uh but like it's broken it's shattered it's in pieces and it still shines and it still reflects
42:30back what you want to see and i think that's just the most beautiful way to describe the emotion of
42:38feeling like you need to put on a performance for people to like you when you are only whatever people
42:45need you to be that weighs really heavily on your soul and you kind of lose yourself in the process
42:51um you know there's that old phrase where it's heavy as the head that wears the crown and you kind
42:55of get a sense of that in mirrorball where she's worn this crown for so long and it's worn down so
43:00heavily on her it's completely just kind of worn her out so you know i've been i've been writing songs
43:06and playing shows since i was about 12 years old and so i kind of developed as a human being a coping
43:12mechanism of um going through something or feeling extreme emotions writing songs that include
43:21those emotions and then playing them for you and going have you guys ever felt this way too or is it
43:26just me and then when you do that or you sing along to the songs it makes me feel
43:37like i'm not alone so that is the whole process i go through often you'll find that great artists
43:44there's an insecurity i mean this need to be loved and the only moment they feel happy is when they get
43:51the applause from a crowd i mean i'm not gonna be a psychiatrist here but then that need to connect
43:57and feel warmth back from an audience plenty of artists will tell you that it's that moment on stage
44:02and the energy they get from an audience so to keep connected with the fans is also gives you
44:10security and gives you strength taylor has notoriously loyal fans and i think the heiress tour you know
44:17underlined that with like a big you know fat red pen they were there to support her as much as she was
44:23putting on a show for them they were there to make her feel supported and feel validated
44:38if an alien came down and watched the heiress tour they would think taylor swift's a cult leader
44:43and good for her the connection with the fans was something i had hardly ever seen before it was way
44:50beyond just being music and it did almost have an element of spirituality to it church gives you
44:56built-in community taylor swift's music and fandom gives you built-in community absolutely take me to
45:02church mama taylor is jesus quote who is going to give you that guidance of how you should be living your
45:11life and taylor swift was that for millions and millions of people it became the trademark of the
45:20eras tour that you would show up with a bunch of friendship bracelets to trade with people you would
45:28make them with the song lyrics or with song names and the friendship bracelets are an excuse to go up to
45:34someone that you've never met before and find that commonality and be like hey this is for you
45:39she's saying that you know all of us are on our own individual path but it doesn't have to be a
45:44lonely experience you can find other people and you know enrich your life with these other people
45:49you can look on the ears towards being the ultimate kind of rebuttal to all those people who said
45:55that famous the scandal would end her career and that she was irrelevant there is no greater kind of
46:02clapback for a woman i think than commercial success particularly in the music industry which continues to be
46:08so dominated and controlled by men
46:15you know taylor swift is something america can agree on particularly after she started dating
46:21one of the biggest football players in america travis kelsey and taylor swift are engaged
46:25and the world wants your reaction sir well i wish him a lot of luck suddenly the girl who was in the
46:32bleachers is very much the top cheerleader it's undeniable that the like cross marketing with the
46:39two of them is pretty unbelievable i don't know how you top the heiress tour as far as being a billionaire i
46:46don't know how you top that i hope what comes next for taylor is that she has found her person
46:52and that she gets to experience the things that most people get to experience and that some people
46:59just give the girl a break for once ultimately she's created a safe place for millions of women around the
47:07world true feminism doesn't always have to look like what you think it's gonna look like it can look
47:13like wearing a dress and boots but also standing up to the men in the room i think she says to young
47:21women that you matter which i think is sadly still a message that still needs to be said today
47:28so make the friendship race let's take the moment and taste it you got no reason to be afraid you're
47:37on your own kid as she's performing she's smiling and she's laughing she's saying you're on your own
47:45kid but that's okay
48:07well it was the first commitment ceremony earlier tonight and the experts weren't messing about new
48:12maths uk stream it so far now or watch as it continues tomorrow at nine on e4 film for tonight
48:17the right song at the right time could change everything for one dreamer little yachty method
48:21man and rhapsody all feature and drama on the come up at 11 40 next here the latest gobble box
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