- 7 months ago
A health alert has been issued in Kerala following the deaths of 18 individuals and the infection of at least 67 others by a brain-eating amoeba.
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00:00Hi there, I'm Sodal Mehrotra Kapoor, this is 5 Live and over the next one hour we'll be bringing you 5 stories that demand your time and attention, 5 stories that should ignite you, keep you informed and since this is 5 Live, we'll talk about 5 stories that inspire your healthiest, happiest life. So let's get started.
00:19First up on the program, we take you through how the finance ministry official was killed in a car crash. The dying victim was taken 19km away in a hospital. Speculations are ripe over a cover up but now a CCTV footage has emerged that might tell a different story. The accused meanwhile is arrested.
00:40The Supreme Court has temporarily stayed part of the VUKF law, temporarily staying 5 years in Islam, need no to the third party, right on disputed assets, also upholds registration need for VUKF assets.
00:58The big story we are tracking here on 5 Live. 18 people are now dead due to this brain-eating amoeba. The numbers are fast escalating. Where is this found? What are the symptoms? What should you do in this case? Coming up on the program.
01:20Also, India didn't shake hands if Pakistan posed the match. Now, Pakistan has launched a protest with Asian Cricket Council.
01:33And towards the end, we look at the Emmys. Everyone's favourite, Adolescents. The Netflix series that got us hooked and shaken up has scripted history.
01:45But what else really got big wins at the Emmys? We'll bring you the full download.
01:50All right, let's start with the story that hasn't made headlines yet, but should. There's a deadly amoeba out there that can actually eat your brains.
02:04And over the next 20 minutes, we will break down what this brain-eating amoeba is, how it works, and most importantly, how to stay safe.
02:14First up, the numbers. Why is it really critical at this point?
02:17Now, Kerala has seen 18 people lose their lives through this deadly brain infection caused by this so-called brain-eating amoeba.
02:26Now, at least 67 people have been infected in the state. And these aren't just numbers.
02:32We're talking about a 47-year-old man from Malapuram who recently passed away in Kodikot Medical Hospital there.
02:39There is a 56-year-old woman and a 52-year-old woman from Malapuram as well, a 45-year-old man from Vainard, a three-month-old infant from Kodikot.
02:50And now, even a nine-year-old girl who has tragically lost her life against the infection.
02:57And it's not just Kerala, if that's what you thought it is.
03:00In Delhi, a 17-year-old student from Trivandrum got diagnosed after swimming in a pool in the Akulam Tourism village.
03:09The pool was, of course, immediately shut down.
03:12But why is the pool critical here? We'll tell you that in a moment.
03:15Let's first try and understand what is this disease.
03:18What is brain-eating amoeba?
03:21Here's everything you need to know.
03:23Now, it's called the primary amoebic meningocencyphalitis or PAM.
03:30I know it's a mouthful, but basically it's a rare and often deadly brain infection caused by the nasty amoeba.
03:36Now, the tiny culprit loves warm, sort of untreated water.
03:41Think ponds, lakes, rivers or even swimming pools that aren't cleaned well.
03:46How does it get inside you?
03:47Well, the amoeba enters your body through your nose.
03:51Not your mouth, not your skin, remember, but your nose.
03:54When you swim or dive in contaminated water, water can rush into your nostrils,
04:00giving the amoeba a direct highway along the nerve responsible for your sense of smell and going right into your brain.
04:07Now, once it reaches your brain, it starts feeding on the brain tissue, literally eating it.
04:13And that's where the name brain-eating amoeba actually comes from.
04:16This causes severe inflammation, damage, leading to symptoms such as sudden, awful headaches, fever, nausea, vomiting, confusion, seizures and eventually coma.
04:29Things progress rapidly and without any quick treatment, it is usually fatal.
04:35Now, where is this amoeba found?
04:37Basically, places that you should totally avoid in this time of the year.
04:41Now, it loves warm, stagnant, fresh water.
04:44Places like ponds, lakes, slow rivers, swimming pools that aren't properly chlorinated.
04:50In fact, even chlorine doesn't affect the amoeba too much.
04:52So, if you have been out for a swim, been at a hot spring or been to a resort, been in a jacuzzi of any sort, remember and watch out for these signs.
05:06A really bad headache, nausea or vomiting, confusion or difficulty in thinking, even seizures.
05:12If you feel any of this lightly and you've been exposed to fresh water recently, you need to get medical help immediately.
05:21But like we said, in this case of PAM, things escalate very quickly.
05:26So, how do you protect yourself?
05:27Basically, avoid. Avoid swimming or diving into warm, untreated fresh water.
05:32If you must swim, keep your head above water or even use nose clips to stop the water from going into your nose.
05:40Because remember, there is no easy cure here.
05:44Let's look at treatment next.
05:45Treatment involves powerful antifungal and antimicrobial drugs.
05:50But even then, survival is tough because the infection progresses so fast.
05:57That's why prevention is your best bet.
05:59Stay cautious, avoid risky waters and don't delay if you start feeling symptoms after the exposure.
06:06The first few hours are extremely critical.
06:09Now, remember, when it comes to PAM or this brain-eating amoeba, the infection may be rare, but it's serious.
06:17So, a little awareness can go a long way in keeping you and your loved one safe.
06:21All right, let's cut across to our guest now.
06:29And joining us is Dr. Vali.
06:32Dr. Vali has been watching this space for a while.
06:34I want to understand from him where does it actually come from.
06:38He's also seen a consultant, the Department of Medicine, former physician to the president as well.
06:45Dr. Vali, a lot of questions come to mind when you think of a disease like this.
06:51But the biggest of all is I want to understand we've seen almost 60 to 70 cases in Kerala being reported.
06:58We are now talking about 18 deaths, all in Kerala again.
07:04Could you help us understand if this situation is localized in that part of the country or there is an aspect of it actually growing?
07:14Well, you have given a very brilliant and extensive review, intelligently described.
07:23The question is very valid.
07:24Suddenly, where this has come from?
07:27And I would say, which I haven't told you when we were discussing, that there is an extensive tourism in cities like Kerala.
07:39So this could be an add-on factor.
07:41The global warming could be another factor.
07:44And third is what we say, unfortunate industrial pollution or somewhere leakages taking place.
07:53This quantity or number of cases which has been described with reference to Kerala is very high, very high.
08:03It means there is some contamination somewhere which has to be checked, number one.
08:07And since this is in multiple cities of Kerala, this is again eye-opener.
08:13You see, this is a known amoeba which we were taught when I was a student in the 70s that this exists in pools.
08:23Since that time, the chlorination of pools were not very good and heating of the pools was not very prevalent.
08:30So, till 2019, what I have got the statistics, only 24 cases have been reported, including Europe and America.
08:42A total 400 cases of this has been reported in the world, all countries combined.
08:47Now, the better side of the story is, since we are exposed so much to the amoeba in our food contamination, we have some kind of resistance.
08:58The world over mortality is 98% and in Indian statistics, so far, the mortality was reported one-fourth of that, that is 24%.
09:11This amoeba, since it comes into the context of fragile brain tissue, brain tissue is liquid at body temperature for the benefit of the audience.
09:21This fragile brain tissue, once some obnoxious bacteria or amoeba crosses the blood-brain barrier, the nature has given three-layered protection, like we have VVIP security, three-layered, four-layered.
09:36So, this, let me, you have taken the palm full form, pan-amoebic, beringo encephalitis, let me tell the name, nigelaria fowlerii.
09:47So, this amoeba, which I was taught as heart manila, is almost same, these are nomenclature and antifugation pathologically, with a very high mortality, is obnoxious for the brain and, unfortunately, our medicines do not cross most of them blood-brain barrier, unless we give them through the spine, through the spinal fluid.
10:10This is the cause of high mortality and, number two, your concern and your very right description makes me to say that this is a new addition to our already existing long list of diseases, which usually starting from Kerala, part of India.
10:28Let me bring in Dr. Neha Rastogi also in this conversation.
10:34Dr. Neha, the thing with this amoeba is, and what I found most fascinating, is the fact that if this were to enter your body through the mouth,
10:43that is, it gets into your gastro-intestinal region, then it doesn't do much harm, largely leads to, like, loose stools, etc.
10:51But, if it is not going into your mouth, but if it enters your nose, then it's just lethal, because we don't know if there is enough medication out there.
11:01We have seen, once diagnosed, it's largely leading to death, even in infants, even in young kids.
11:08So, how does that really work?
11:17Dr. Neha, if you can hear me?
11:21All right, let's quickly check that line with Dr. Neha as well.
11:29Let me take that question to Dr. Vali.
11:31Dr. Vali, what is the difference?
11:34Why is it that when it enters our stomach, then the harm is not as much?
11:39But if it enters our nose, then it's straightaway taking lives.
11:42The stomach, that's this infection, every third or fourth person walking on the road has some amount of hemobiasis exposed to some part of his life.
11:55There is acid in the stomach, which destroys the cysts, mind it.
12:01Then the cyst wall gets ruptured and this creates problem.
12:07The amoeba multiplies 1 in 2, 2 in 4 like that.
12:11It doesn't multiply very fast like bacteria.
12:13But even then, it causes inflammation of the bowel, loses stool, diarrhea and mucus formation.
12:21We typically, when we were not testing so much about amoebic serology, our teachers used to teach us if the stool is slimy, mucus-like, like what we have from the nose, then this is called amoebic colitis.
12:36Very common.
12:37Got it.
12:37And this reduces reflux acidity.
12:40The nose has got a barrier, which is called a cribriform plate, like the sieve of the tea strainer, through which the nerves come.
12:51There are 12 to 20 branches of the olfactory nerve, which senses the smell.
12:56And along that, there is a layer of the very thin layer of the brain fluid also descends down.
13:03And this is a very fragile area, very fragile.
13:05Like you cut a little extra of the nail, with that you can't see with naked eye, how much cut nail is there to give you pain.
13:17Very small amount of the nail.
13:19So this area is very fragile, very sensitive, through which these clever amoebic trophozoids can climb.
13:28Because of that, once they reach the brain, they cross the blood-brain barrier, they settle in the brain substance and produces nuisance.
13:38And unfortunately, in the brain, because they get a ready-made nutrition, its brain is rich in cholesterol and very good blood circulation,
13:47they multiply very fast.
13:50And therefore, they create an irreversible brain damage.
13:54And unfortunately, doctors also suspect it very late, unless you teach us and alarm us and educate us.
14:01So we also do amoebic tests in the brain fluid very late.
14:05So normally, we do tests for viral meningitis, TB meningitis, which is very common in India and other forms.
14:12Now, we have a biofire, which probably does not include amoebic detection.
14:18Unless we do a specific IgG, IgM of amoeba in the cerebrospinal fluid, we can't diagnose this.
14:26It's a difficult diagnosis.
14:28It's a difficult diagnosis indeed.
14:29But perhaps you have to go back to seeing where the symptoms started.
14:33And if you were exposed to water, and that seems to be the only way to find that out as well.
14:37Dr. Neha, if you can hear me this time around, I'm just trying to understand very clearly,
14:44why do all these infections come from Kerala?
14:49I've found it very hard to believe.
14:50Kerala keeps saying that it's because we're testing more.
14:53If it's COVID, it's Rika, it's whatever virus is sort of really, you know, Nipah virus as well.
15:00Whatever virus you think of, any disease you think of, why is Kerala such a hub?
15:05I'm trying to understand, is it the geographical position?
15:08Is it the weather pattern?
15:10Is it exposure to backwaters, which is still?
15:14Is it because people who are living on the coast need to be more careful?
15:18But there are other states also which are on the coast.
15:20Why only Kerala?
15:21Just make sense of this to me, please.
15:24Right.
15:24So I think if you have an answer that all of the above, I would have mentioned that actually,
15:29what you have just spoken about.
15:31So usually the Kerala, not only the coastal area, if you see the Alipi, the backwaters.
15:37So this, when we talk about the free living immediate or the legal area,
15:41and for that matter, there are other species, etc.
15:44They usually thrive in more of the water springs area, the warm water,
15:48the areas where there is a bit tight between the high coast and the low coast.
15:54Those areas which have a lot of geothermals and the hot springs.
15:57So usually it does not come from the sea.
16:00We are not talking about the seawater thing.
16:02We are talking about where there is a warm pools, rivers, and you know, small lakes and the dams.
16:08So there the Keralas are a little more richer in that because we all know about the backwaters,
16:13as you have also mentioned.
16:14There are a lot of temperate forest areas, which have a lot of pools and ditches in between.
16:20There are a lot of spaces.
16:21And third, of course, I would say that coming from the Kerala, apart from being the temperate zone and everything,
16:27also because, of course, the initial few cases have been reported.
16:32So their diagnostic system is circulated in that way, of course, that they have started checking it more often.
16:39But, of course, talking about that, we do have one or two cases reported in last 10 years, even from the North India as well.
16:47However, most of the cases are still being reported from the South India.
16:50I have just mentioned the reasons.
16:53Got it.
16:54Dr. Neha also helped me understand this.
16:56So for people who are still going out to swim, to perhaps places which are taken care of,
17:05is chlorine or chlorination of water enough to keep this amoeba at bay?
17:13I would say that, you know, there are three things important in that.
17:18But apart from the adequate chlorine content, as I have mentioned, that swimming pools or the splash pads are the most common causes, which is there.
17:27And the typically chlorinated content has to be really good.
17:31Apart from that, wherever you have a stagnant water, you don't have much circulation and you're not doing it well cleaning.
17:38There is a lot of algae involved on the surfaces.
17:41So when we talk about the micromanagement with the chlorine, even the macro cleaning itself is very important.
17:47When you have an artificial made geothermals or water springs, a lot of times we go to Manikar and other places like that,
17:53where you have a hot springs and you enjoy this weather.
17:56There, it's very important to keep up the water supply in the circulation because these amoebas, they thrive on the stagnant water.
18:04So chlorine is one content.
18:06Second content, of course, is the regular change of the water supply or the regular pooling in and pooling out of those water into the system.
18:14So, and then the third thing is too much of warm water because these, you know, these amoeba, as I mentioned previously also, they don't thrive in the seawater because there is constant tides coming there, constant waves coming.
18:28Still water.
18:29So the still water, if it is there, that also needs to be keeping changing and in circulation.
18:35So when you say still water, do you mean in community jacuzzis or in community places where there is a pool, et cetera, one needs to be careful, even if you are in the north?
18:47I don't want to like sound alarm bells and say it's everywhere and everybody should stop, you know, just going for a swim straight away because it is that time of the year.
18:56There is hand, foot, mouth in kids, there is H3N2, we just did a show on that on Friday.
19:01And then there is this.
19:02So this is generally the time of the year.
19:04Would you say that people should stay away from any kind of water activity?
19:09Would that be fair to say?
19:10No, no, no, no, not at all.
19:12The idea to pitch is about the care and about the more awareness.
19:16So when you say that when you're going, you are a good pool activity user, your kids are going, you're going for jacuzzis or spas, even we go also as a method of recreation.
19:27The only basic purpose is how clean are they?
19:30They are not stagnant.
19:32They are keep clean because a lot of authorities, they keep intact information in terms of that they do it weekly cleaning or a bi-weekly cleaning or even a fortnightly cleaning depends upon the volume of the usage of that area for the most of the people.
19:45And then the second thing, which obviously is a very important matter, is your own personal hygiene.
19:51So for example, just a bare minimum, when we know about those stagnant places, we go and go in the pools just for the enjoyment purpose, at least just, you know, nasal clipping.
20:01That's just a basic may or a modality just to have prevention.
20:06Second and third thing is, as we have just mentioned about the epidemiological and geographical differences, usually in our places right in the north and the west zone,
20:15they don't have much of those stagnant water areas or the warm springs as compared to down there in the south coastal areas and sea.
20:24So that way, I would say the more inclination of having that there is there, as we have just discussed in terms of the weather profile.
20:32So only the just basic hygiene, changing of at least the water, keeping the chlorinated content up to the mark, our bare minimum, which we can do anywhere.
20:42Which we can do anywhere.
20:42I have last few minutes.
20:43I just want to bring in a quick word from Dr. Vali.
20:46Dr. Vali, a lot of places in north India just had flooding situations.
20:50We saw it in Delhi as well.
20:52A lot of water was flooded.
20:53You saw it in Uttarakhand, in Himachal, even in Jammu and other places.
20:58So is flooding, because now water is stagnated, a lot of it has not retreated.
21:03Are those areas also to be kept in mind, carefully sort of seen if you, I mean, one thing is obviously do not take a dip in those waters.
21:13But there is a chance that the amoeba could actually be flourishing in those areas as well?
21:19Well, if it is migrated from the place where it is prevalent right now, there is a possibility.
21:25I would add one thing, very important thing, that children and adults, even I have seen, there are rules for the pools.
21:34Take a shower.
21:35And that shower means clean your genitals, clean your hips, clean your area, which is pelvic area, clean your armpits also.
21:46Of course, now I would say clean your nose before, rinse your nose before jumping into it.
21:51That hygiene has to be observed, because if someone is harboring another amoeba, that might mutate into the water later on.
22:01This is one possibility.
22:02I have seen, I have gone to the best pools in Delhi and abroad also, people don't take care of hygiene while going to the pool.
22:11This is one important.
22:13And there is a possibility in stagnant water, it will grow.
22:17And I have raised this point, industrial pollution has to be checked.
22:22If the water is polluted from the industrial waste or industrial pollution, which is invisible,
22:27So you supply that water into the pool.
22:30In the pool, people think that it is ordinary water, it is just to drink, it is not to drink, it is to drink, it is to drink, it is to touch your eyes, to touch your mouth, to touch your body and other areas of the skin.
22:43Pool water, sanitation is equally important as drinking water, sanitation, don't just check the chlorine in that water.
22:53See the details of the water content, microbes, microscope, under the microscope, fungus, what are the contaminants?
23:01Many people do unsavory things in the swimming pools.
23:06I have seen myself, even educated people, foreigners even have seen.
23:10So they should know.
23:11Yeah, I take your point, Dr. Wali, that, you know, the basic sense of hygiene when it comes to any water exposure has to be watched out, especially this time of the year.
23:23And perhaps from what you're saying across, you know, all year round as well.
23:26Dr. Neha Rastogi, Dr. M. Wali, thank you both for joining us and shedding light on what this brain eating amoeba is all about.
23:34Currently, most of the cases are found in Kerala, but you've got to be careful because this could actually spread anywhere.
23:50Alright, the Prime Minister is in Bihar today and just minutes ago he did address the crowd there ahead of Bihar elections and said that we will flush out infiltrators from India.
24:00He went on to say that there is a guarantee, this is Modi's guarantee, action will be taken against intruders and the country will also see good results.
24:11Now, the double-engine Sarkar pitch was also made by the Prime Minister there as he addressed a rally along with Nitish Kumar.
24:18Remember, it's a closely fought election and an intensely fought election in Bihar where two alliances are coming together and pitted against each other with some surprise candidates as well.
24:29And the Prime Minister there in Purnia and just after addressing that rally is now on his way in what looks like a mini road show of sorts.
24:40And while, Bihar gets ready for the political battle.
24:45Just listen to me.
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27:43All right.
28:13Let's move on from that and bring you the other big story we are tracking here on Five Live.
28:17A major road accident in Delhi has reignited concerns over rash driving.
28:21A senior finance ministry official was killed and his wife critically injured after their motorcycle was hit by a BMW near Dholak, Hawaii, Delhi.
28:30Now, the accused who was driving the BMW has been arrested and, as per Delhi police sources, has been produced in a court today.
28:36The couple was on their way to their home, to Harinagar, when the accident took place.
28:42And now cops are probing why the couple was hospitalized 19 kilometers away from the accident site in those critical minutes of recovery and some life-saving sort of mechanism that could have been provided.
28:57But the case has raised major concerns as well over the value of life when it comes to such incidents.
29:03A high-profile life snuffed out by speed demon in Delhi.
29:21Navjot Singh, deputy secretary in the Department of Economic Affairs under the Ministry of Finance, crushed to death.
29:32His wife, Sandeep Kaur, battling for her life.
29:35After their bike was mowed down by a speeding BMW during the couple's post-lunch drive home.
29:41Behind the wheels of the recklessly speeding BMW was Gaganpreet Makkar, who has now been arrested.
29:50The couple on the motorcycle was mowed down by the BMW near Dholakwa.
29:55BMW was being driven by Gaganpreet and her husband, Parikshit, was in the car.
30:01The entire front portion has gone off.
30:07The BMW is a luxury car, but clearly the impact of the entire accident is visibly felt on this car.
30:16As you can see, the entire windbags opened and also the backside of the car.
30:22You can see how visibly the damage has been in this incident.
30:27I saw that a car has fallen, an accident has gone off.
30:30So I made the help of Thurun, both of them, put on my car in the car and went to the hospital.
30:38The new life was telling us that the hospital was telling us that we had to go to Ajatpuri's side.
30:44Tephyayar reveals a possible sinister plot to destroy evidence.
30:48After the crash, Navjot and Sandeep were taken by the accused to a hospital in GTB Nagar,
30:53which was 19 kilometres from the accident spot.
30:57Owned by the family friend.
30:59While ignoring plea by the victim's wife to take her husband to nearby premier hospitals like Ames and Sabda Jung,
31:05losing crucial movements which could have saved the top bureaucrat.
31:08Navnour, I think there is one thing that you have to do so far, why don't you take someone to take someone so far?
31:17I don't understand that I have to do so far.
31:18The hospital where there is accident where there is so far, there are so many big hospitals.
31:23The victim's family also claimed that Navja's critical hurt wife Sandeep was kept on a stretcher
31:50for several hours before she was treated by doctors the accused now face charge of culpable homicide
32:14not amounting to murder they have also been charged for destruction and concealment of evidence
32:20and rash driving
32:21the deadly BMW crash once again highlighting the killer menace of over speeding and reckless driving
32:46on Delhi's roads.
32:47With Arvind Doja and Shriya Chatterjee, Bureau Report, India Today.
33:17The car first rammed into the divider before having an impact on the bike of Navjot and
33:24ultimately leading into the crash.
33:27Now that's critical.
33:28Let's try and understand what this really means.
33:29My colleague Shriya is with us.
33:31Shriya, what does this new information really tell us?
33:34Did she lose control of the car and it went into the divider as an impact?
33:41The car, you know, the bike actually was rammed into.
33:46What exactly is that CCTV footage telling us?
33:48Well, you know, Sonal, because I myself personally saw that CCTV footage which the Delhi police
33:57just showed us, it clearly shows that this BMW car was in a speed which did go out of control.
34:04That is when there was a divider on the right hand side of the road which is along the metro
34:08pillars.
34:09So that is why those after visuals you see, you see the bike of Navjot actually lying just
34:23underneath the vehicle which is also already toppled down.
34:27The impact was such huge because it at first hit the divider.
34:31The CCTV clearly establishes that.
34:34Now multiple other things have been picked up that suggest that, you know, why did they
34:38take the victims to a hospital 19 kilometers?
34:42As of now in the interrogation, the accused maintains that because she has a trust with
34:46the hospital during the COVID time, that is the reason why she chose that hospital.
34:51Whether or not the court finds it plausible is something that we will have to wait for.
34:55As of now, she will be produced in the court today, either before the duty MM or in the
35:00Patiala House court as the regular schedule suggests.
35:03And then we will be seeing her sent to judicial custody because in all likelihood Delhi police
35:07will not be seeking her police custody is what we have been confirmed.
35:11All right.
35:12Not seeking police custody.
35:13That means they pretty much have all the things that they need from her.
35:16That generally indicates that they don't need any further evidence and they pretty much
35:20established what the sequence of events here are.
35:23Mr. Abhi, you also saw your interview with the son.
35:26It's, it's just heartbreaking, isn't it?
35:29You just leave home one day to, you know, visit someone or you go to office, but you never
35:34come back.
35:35It is such a tragic, you know, situation to be in.
35:39And on top of that, to know that had the situation, you know, had the, the, the victim
35:45here been taken to a hospital nearby.
35:48Maybe, just maybe his life could have been saved.
35:54Well, absolutely.
35:55And that's exactly what is the first aid in every accident situation.
36:00It's, it's unfortunately Navnoor's birthday tomorrow is what we're also being told.
36:04He is absolutely devastated.
36:06His mother just went into a surgery today.
36:09Pado passed away.
36:10Uh, both the, the couple actually had a usual Sunday affair.
36:14They were having a lunch post, which they were returning when this entire accident took
36:18place.
36:18I absolutely reiterate what Navnoor says.
36:21The collision may have been an accident.
36:23What transpired is nothing less than a murder.
36:26And that's precisely why we saw two crucial sections added by the Delhi police.
36:30One dead by negligence and the other destruction of evidence.
36:35Ah, well, Shreya, thank you so much for bringing us all those details.
36:38Tragic, tragic indeed.
36:39Let's break it open to some guests now who are joining us.
36:42Piyush Tiwari, founder and CEO of Save Life Foundation is with us.
36:45Also joining us is Dr. Kamal Sohi.
36:47He's a member for the National Road Safety Council and the Ministry of Road and Transport
36:52Highways Government of India.
36:54Dr. Kamal, let me come to you first.
36:56I want to understand that, you know, Shreya is right when she says, and the son is right
37:01in this case when he says that the collision might have been an accident, but in short,
37:07but choosing to not go to the nearest hospital shows an intent of not saving life.
37:14Absolutely, that is true, you know.
37:18That's absolutely, that's right, right.
37:20Maybe they might have been trying to cover it up and there are a lot of other things
37:26attached to it.
37:26Number one is the speeding.
37:28Number two, there may be a distracted driving as well.
37:31Maybe the lady who was behind the wheel, she was talking on the phone or she was under some
37:39kind of intoxication or some argument happening in the car with the husband.
37:45That's why she lost control over it.
37:46Now, in India, we do not have IDRs in our vehicles, incident data recorders, like the
37:52aeroplanes have the black box to find out exactly what might have happened in that situation.
37:57As it's mentioned that, you know, the CCTV says that it first hit that wider, then it
38:04hit the vehicle.
38:06And the irony is, the worst part is, the platinum 10 minutes.
38:12If the first aid would have been provided in first 10 minutes, there were maybe about
38:1860-70% chance he might have, Navjot might have survived.
38:23But they took him all the way to 19 kilometers and that too in a private vehicle where there
38:30was no CPR or first aid or anything was given to Navjot.
38:36And what I could understand that this hospital belonged to some known person of the culprits.
38:42And that's why they wanted to escape from there.
38:46And they can now, they have escaped the medical, they have destroyed the medical evidence as
38:52well.
38:53Because once they reached the hospital, first thing, first they would have done is the
38:58medical of the Gaganpreet called the driver, whether she was under intoxication or whether
39:04she was, you know, something else was happening in the car.
39:07So, we do not know what transpired and I don't know whether the police is going to find the
39:13real truth from Gaganpreet here.
39:16But it seems like they have a tight case because they don't seem to be seeking police custody
39:20any further.
39:21That generally happens when police has pretty much figured out everything and they just
39:24want to get over with the legalities.
39:26Now, let me bring in Piyush Tiwari as well.
39:28Piyush, give me a legal point of view here.
39:31In situations like these, I remember when rape cases during Nirbhya's time when we were
39:39reporting, the law on this was very clear, that it doesn't matter where it occurred.
39:44If a woman is going into a police station to file a complaint, it will be taken on board.
39:51Similarly, in road accidents, I'm trying to understand what is the protocol here.
39:55One way could be that let's not wait for an ambulance, let's just put them in a vehicle
40:01so that they can be taken to the nearest hospital.
40:03Is that the protocol under the law?
40:07So, there are a couple of things to consider here.
40:11One is the pre-crash aspect.
40:14So, what happened in the car, you know, what led to the crash and so on and so forth.
40:19And the only way to find out what happened in the crash is to investigate the crash under
40:24Section 135 of the Motor Vehicle Act as amended in 2019.
40:29Now, the challenge is that the police are not seeking police custody, but to establish a
40:36case under culpable homicide, they will need to have forensic evidence which will need to
40:41be collected under Section 135.
40:42CCTV evidence alone will not help.
40:44You have to look inside the vehicle.
40:47You have to look outside.
40:48You have to look at infrastructure.
40:49There are at least 300 data points that you have to capture in order to ensure that, you
40:56know, that the, to establish that case.
41:00So, in many cases of culpable homicide in the cases of road crashes, we see accused parties
41:06being, you know, not getting punished because the police have not been able to establish
41:14evidence.
41:14So, that, leaving that aside, I think the, the challenge here is that we, in, when we talk
41:20about trauma care, there's an entire chain of survival that gets involved here.
41:25You know, you need to know who to call for help once the help arrives.
41:29And, you know, in the meanwhile, bystanders, you know, under the Good Samaritan law can look
41:36after the victims.
41:37When the help arrives, they need to get formal care to the hospital and so on and so forth.
41:41So, in this case, we saw that that entire chain of survival was completely neglected, was
41:49completely abolished.
41:49So, in a typical scenario, you have to take the person to the nearest hospital, even if you're
41:54not waiting for an ambulance.
41:56In this case, of course, as we've seen that, you know, the person was taken to, was not
42:02taken to the nearest hospital, was taken to a facility quite far away, which I think is
42:07a point that police also needs to look into and, you know, see if it's worthy of, you know,
42:14vicarious liability and, you know, charging, you know, filing additional charges in this particular
42:18matter.
42:19But the one point that I wanted to leave you with is that, you know, we are discussing
42:24this today because it has, it's a sensational case now.
42:27It involves a very senior government officer and so on and so forth.
42:301,73,000 people died in 2023 in road crashes.
42:341,73,000 people.
42:364,74 people a day.
42:38That's a fully loaded Boeing 747 crashing every single day in the country.
42:43And unfortunately, a big cause of this is speeding.
42:48And what we are seeing across the country, not just in Delhi, is a complete abdication
42:53of responsibility by enforcers in controlling speeding, in showing visibility, both day and
43:00night.
43:00We are seeing in capital, in the heart of the city, wrong side driving happening, people
43:06driving without helmets, people driving, doing zigzag driving, over speeding.
43:10If this is happening in the capital, we can imagine what's happening on the highways.
43:16So the Achilles heel for road safety in India really is enforcement.
43:20In 2019, the Motor Vehicle Act was amended, passed.
43:241st September, it was notified.
43:26States had to create rules under it.
43:28Section 138, 1A for protection of motorized, you know, non-motorized road users.
43:34136A for electronic enforcement.
43:36135 for forensic crash investigation.
43:39States have not issued those rules.
43:42It's been more than five years.
43:44What is Delhi government doing in terms of bringing in these rules?
43:48I'm very glad you brought that up, Piyush, as well.
43:50I was anyways going to sort of bring that about.
43:53And you see those numbers on your screen right now also, how year by year, it doesn't
43:58seem to be settling down.
43:59It only is increasing.
44:01And I, you know, and you're right when you say that this is a senior finance ministry
44:05official.
44:06That's why it's made it to the headlines.
44:07How many people lose their lives every minute on the roads of our country?
44:12And we never even notice.
44:14But let's talk solutions here, Piyush.
44:17If today, if you are speeding in Delhi, you get a ticket, no matter what.
44:22Even if you cross the zebra line, you get a notification that you have been challenged.
44:27So, I'm trying to understand, is Chalaning now the right way to go about it at all?
44:33Because a lot of these people then just pay and, you know, still continue to speed on
44:38the roads.
44:40You see, a large, if you look at violations, right?
44:44So, Delhi has now installed cameras at a number of places.
44:48And many of them have ANPR capabilities, which is automatic number plate reading capabilities.
44:53And they're able to issue Chalans as a result of that.
44:57If you stand on any intersection, do a general survey in terms of number of Chalans issued
45:02versus the number of violations that you can capture there, you'll see a dramatic difference
45:06there.
45:07What that tells you is that electronic enforcement alone does not help.
45:13You need a combination of electronic enforcement with visible policing to create a deterrent factor.
45:19And that deterrence is very, very important because it's not just in India.
45:22The same drivers, when driving in Dubai or the US, will drive better.
45:26Only because they know that enforcement is tight there.
45:29So, Chalaning is not the only solution or, you know, we can't talk about it casually.
45:34It's a very, enforcement is a very significant established method of controlling this public
45:40health epidemic that is taking place in our country.
45:42And if we don't undertake enforcement effectively, using both technology and human means, like
45:49for example, the other, you know, guests spoke about, you know, potentially doing a drunk
45:55driving test on the driver.
45:57A camera can't do that.
45:58You know, a camera can't gauge whether somebody is driving drunk or not.
46:02There are many other violations that are coming up.
46:05Those are very, very important points, Piyush.
46:09And I'm afraid that's all the time we have.
46:12But thank you so much for both for joining us.
46:13If I might also say that, you know, it's not just about what happens after you're on the
46:18wheel.
46:19I think checks need to begin before you get the license.
46:21And that's, again, a space where India is very, very weak, very, very far behind.
46:29Proper tests are not done in issuing of licenses.
46:32And I think that's also one of the major reasons.
46:35But Piyush Tiwari and Dr. Kamal Soy, thank you so much both for joining us on that discussion.
46:40We move over bikinis, even burkinis.
46:43China's latest swimwear trend is a face skinny.
46:47Yep, that's one, the one right there.
46:49This full face cover, exposing only eyes, nose and mouth, protects against harmful UV rays
46:55and caters to Asia's obsession with flawless, pale skin.
46:59With customite version for men as well now emerging, the face skinny industry is growing
47:04fast.
47:05But will this made-in-China trend actually stay?
47:09Or is this going to just be the one rocking our internet reels?
47:13Enjoy this.
47:14We'll see you tomorrow.
47:15Bye-bye.
47:16Move over bikinis and burkinis.
47:18The hottest trend taking over China is, in fact, face skinny.
47:30Yes, a look previously embodied by bank robbers is taking over swimwear collections in China.
47:36Although, for a different reason.
47:37A face skinny wearer only has eyes, nose and the mouth exposed.
47:43Think of it like a facial sheet mask to protect one from the sun.
47:49Turns out, Chinese women fear getting tanned almost as much as their Indian counterparts.
47:56What would have almost been unthinkable in the West is now a thriving industry in China,
48:02spreading its wings across Asia.
48:03Asian beauty standards, including the Indian market, are known to be tough, with immense importance
48:12given to skincare.
48:13South Korea, for instance, has women conforming to high degrees of facial perfection with layers
48:19of skincare.
48:22Face skinnies have unsurprisingly left the internet divided.
48:25The internet finds them absurd, scary and weird looking.
48:29But some wearers say it's better to prevent than cure and that they have no qualms about
48:35looking funny in public, if that means looking better later.
48:37What's more, face skinnies are also being tailor-made for men.
48:43Going back in time, the modest burkini, a combination of a burka and a bikini, had gained flak and
48:49was even banned in certain towns of France.
48:51Cut to 2025, is a made-in-China face skinny going to meet with the same fate?
48:56And how far can we really go for beauty?
48:58With Shriya Srivastava and video journalist Jagannath, Bureau Report, India Today.
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