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The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell 9/10/25 | ️ Breaking News September 10, 2025
The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell 9/10/25 | ️ Breaking News September 10, 2025
The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell 9/10/25 | ️ Breaking News September 10, 2025
The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell 9/10/25 | ️ Breaking News September 10, 2025
The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell 9/10/25 | ️ Breaking News September 10, 2025
The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell 9/10/25 | ️ Breaking News September 10, 2025
The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell 9/10/25 | ️ Breaking News September 10, 2025
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NewsTranscript
00:00Well, there was an outpouring of mourning from the political leadership of both parties
00:06after Charlie Kirk was killed today in Utah.
00:10At 2.53 p.m., Gavin Newsom said,
00:14the attack on Charlie Kirk is disgusting, vile, and reprehensible.
00:18In the United States of America, we must reject political violence in every form.
00:22At 3.09 p.m., Guardsman Hakeem Jeffries said,
00:26political violence is never acceptable.
00:29My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie Kirk and his family.
00:32At 3.21 p.m., Senator Chuck Schumer said,
00:35political violence has no place in America.
00:38This shooting is horrifying, and I'm praying for Charlie Kirk and his family.
00:42At 3.48 p.m., Kamala Harris said,
00:46I am deeply disturbed by the shooting in Utah.
00:49Doug and I send our prayers to Charlie Kirk and his family.
00:52Let me be clear, political violence has no place in America.
00:55I condemn this act, and we all must work together to ensure this does not lead to more violence.
01:02At 4.40 p.m., Donald Trump tweeted,
01:06the great and even legendary Charlie Kirk is dead.
01:10No one understood or had the heart of the youth in the United States of America better than Charlie.
01:16He was loved and admired by all, especially me.
01:19And now he is no longer with us.
01:21Melania and my sympathies go out to his beautiful wife, Erica, and family.
01:26Charlie, we love you.
01:27At 4.45 p.m., J.D. Vance retweeted Donald Trump's statement, adding,
01:32eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord.
01:37At 5.07 p.m., Joe Biden said,
01:39there is no place in our country for this kind of violence.
01:43It must end now.
01:44Jill and I are praying for Charlie Kirk's family and loved ones.
01:48At 5.26 p.m., Barack Obama tweeted,
01:51we don't yet know what motivated the person who shot and killed Charlie Kirk.
01:56But this kind of despicable violence has no place in our democracy.
02:01Michelle and I will be praying for Charlie's family tonight,
02:04especially his wife, Erica, and their two young children.
02:08At 5.31 p.m., Mike Johnson tweeted,
02:11utterly devastating.
02:12Charlie was a close friend and confidant.
02:15He will be sorely missed by so many.
02:17Every political leader must loudly and clearly decry this violence.
02:23Our prayers go out to his wife and young children.
02:25May he rest in peace.
02:28At 6.58 p.m., George W. Bush said,
02:33today a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views.
02:37It happened on a college campus where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct.
02:44Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square.
02:48Members of other political parties are not our enemies.
02:51They are our fellow citizens.
02:54May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family.
02:57And may God guide America toward civility.
03:01At 7.06 p.m., Bill Clinton tweeted,
03:04I'm saddened and angered by Charlie Kirk's murder,
03:08and I hope we all go through some serious introspection and redouble our efforts to engage in debate passionately yet peacefully.
03:17Hillary and I are keeping Erica, their two young children, and their family in our prayers.
03:23Here's what eyewitness Justin Hickens told NBC News.
03:30I was about 20 yards away on Charlie's left.
03:35I had gotten there probably just a few minutes before noon.
03:38There were thousands of people there.
03:41Unfortunately, there was no metal detectors.
03:44There was no, I mean, there was security by Charlie,
03:47but, you know, anybody could have shown up with whatever, unfortunately.
03:51And I happened to kind of maneuver my way down close on the side.
03:55And the first interaction probably took about 10 minutes.
03:59It was a religious-related exchange.
04:03And then there was someone who stepped up, ironically, coincidentally,
04:08who asked a question about mass shootings.
04:11And about 60 to 90 seconds in, we just saw, we heard a big, loud shot.
04:15I saw a bunch of blood come out of Charlie.
04:18I saw his body kind of kick back and go limp, and everybody dropped to the ground.
04:23And luckily, there were no other bullets sprayed into the crowd
04:27because nobody was really able to go anywhere.
04:30It was just like a big, you know, open pavilion, amphitheater, outdoor venue.
04:35And, you know, lots of screaming, lots of yelling, you know, lots of bodies on top of each other.
04:42And after a couple minutes, people got up and started kind of running, you know, getting out of there.
04:48There were some gates, some barriers that had been pushed aside and knocked over,
04:53and people were able to move.
04:54And I started to move quickly and then kind of realized that I said, you know, I think we're okay.
05:02And I kind of stopped walking away.
05:05We are joined now in our continuing live coverage by former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissman
05:11and MSNBC justice correspondent Ken Delanian.
05:14Ken, what is the latest in the investigation as of this hour?
05:18Well, Lawrence, the latest is a puzzling series of social media posts from the FBI director
05:25who announced with great fanfare about three hours ago that the subject, that's the term he used,
05:33involved in the shooting of Charlie Kirk, had been captured.
05:37And he thanked local law enforcement.
05:40Now, law enforcement on the scene quickly contradicted that
05:43and said that the person that they were questioning was actually a person of interest.
05:47They did not call that person a subject or a suspect.
05:50And then about two hours after that, Kash Patel posted another item on X
05:56saying that this person had, in fact, been released.
05:58And the investigation continues.
06:00He didn't explicitly say it, but the implication is that the shooter is at large.
06:05Now, there's a massive manhunt going on.
06:08I can tell you from talking to my sources.
06:09And there are some pieces of evidence.
06:11There's some scanner traffic that's online right now
06:15where you can hear law enforcement talking about a suspect in black jeans,
06:20wearing a black bandana and carrying a rifle.
06:24And there's a video that appears to show someone, potentially the suspect,
06:28on a rooftop about 150 yards from where that single shot was fired that killed Charlie Kirk.
06:34So there is some evidence, but as of right now, we're not aware that any arrests have been made
06:39of anyone they believe is connected to this.
06:42And it's worth remembering, though, Lawrence, that, you know,
06:46generally in these kinds of shocking instances of violence,
06:50whether it's a mass shooting or another kind of random act of violence,
06:54the perpetrator is often caught very quickly.
06:56But that's not always the case.
06:58Remember, when Luigi Mangione allegedly assassinated the CEO of UnitedHealthcare,
07:03it took five days for the authorities to track him down and arrest him.
07:07So there's certainly a massive manhunt going on with federal, state and local authorities.
07:11But the uncertainty and confusion at the top of the nation's premier law enforcement agency
07:17is really puzzling and disturbing and is not offering the American public clarity tonight
07:23about where this investigation stands.
07:25Andrew Reisman, how are investigative duties shared in a situation like this
07:30between FBI and local authorities?
07:33So I'm brought back immediately to what happened in the Boston bombing.
07:37I was at the FBI at the time.
07:39It was the general counsel.
07:40It was under Director Mueller.
07:42And you have a really wonderful partnership.
07:46And you have and are supposed to have a local team of FBI agents
07:51who have a very good relationship with everyone who's local at the scene.
07:57There also, though, is a massive effort that happens,
08:00it's supposed to happen, at the main headquarters of the FBI.
08:04Why?
08:05Obviously, you need people at the scene who are going to interview people.
08:08You want to look and see if there's evidence like gun shells,
08:11things like that, physical evidence.
08:12But you also have so much electronic data now.
08:16You are doing so much remotely where you are looking,
08:19you're setting up a geofence to see who went in or out of the area.
08:24And then every single one of those leads is followed up.
08:27You're tracking what's sort of what's online.
08:31There are threats that have been made previously to Mr. Kirk or to his family.
08:36You want to track all of that.
08:37You're dealing with all of the social media companies to get emergency orders
08:42to make sure that you can get access to everything that they have
08:46that could provide a lead.
08:47And there's just so much that is supposed to happen
08:49and is coordinated from the top of the FBI.
08:55And it's sort of a real beehive that happens
08:58that's supposed to happen at main headquarters at FBI.
09:01I heard another FBI veteran earlier in our coverage tonight
09:06refer to a geofence.
09:08How does that work?
09:10So what you can do now is you can, within a certain area at this scene,
09:17you can basically determine who's gone sort of in or out.
09:23And you can do that after the fact of an incident like this.
09:26Exactly.
09:26So let me just give you like a really sort of unsophisticated version.
09:31You do obviously need to have somebody who has one of these, a cell phone.
09:34And let's say you go to a cell tower.
09:38You can see exactly whose phones have been pinging off of that cell tower.
09:44And then you can triangulate and figure out where the other cell towers are.
09:48And you can get a real sense of who has been there.
09:50Now, you could have a sophisticated operator who knew that
09:55and decided that they were not going to have anything on them
09:58that would ping and do that.
10:01So that would be something that would be no lead from that.
10:05But you don't know that at this point.
10:06So you immediately are looking at that.
10:09And then you're going to compare that to your databases to see,
10:12are there any sort of people, anybody with red flags,
10:16people who you were suspicious of or tracking or you thought were in extremist groups
10:20who were in or out of the scene at that time.
10:24You then are going to compare that to your sort of human sources.
10:29It's called human.
10:30So it's human intelligence because you have lots and lots of sources on the ground.
10:34And you're going to want to talk to all of them.
10:36And the word has gone out, I'm sure, both at the federal level and at the state level,
10:41to all sources to see what have they heard.
10:44Were they hearing any chatter before or since that would provide a lead?
10:48And then the FBI's job is to track each and every single one of those down
10:52to make sure they can do that.
10:55Kendall Lane, do we know anything about the movements of the FBI director tonight?
10:59Is he remaining in Washington?
11:01Is he headed for the scene?
11:02Is everything that he's putting out coming from his office in FBI headquarters?
11:09Yeah, I don't have that information.
11:11Lawrence Cash Patel is not known to sort of publicly broadcast his movements,
11:15except in narrow instances when he wants those to be known.
11:19I have no information that he is heading to the scene,
11:22but it's not outside of the realm of possibility.
11:26What's clear is that the information flow to him has not been accurate
11:31or he is not interpreting it correctly because it was just remarkable to have him
11:36say that essentially imply that the shooter had been caught.
11:40And then two hours later, announcing that that person was not, in fact,
11:44the shooter and had been released.
11:45That just doesn't happen in these situations.
11:48And it's also worth noting a couple of things.
11:50And again, we don't know.
11:51Look, I've been talking to people all night who assure me that very competent
11:55and capable FBI and other federal agents are bringing all the resources to bear
11:59to try to hunt down this shooter.
12:03But it's also true that the special agent in charge of the Salt Lake City Field Office
12:08was unceremoniously fired some weeks ago.
12:12This is a decorated, well-regarded Pakistani-American female agent
12:16who joined the Bureau after 9-11 and spent years doing counterterrorism work.
12:20So you have a new agent in charge of that office.
12:23Whether that is having an impact on the response and on the communication
12:27and the information flow remains to be seen.
12:29But it's something that the public should know about.
12:31And the public should also know that we reporters who cover the FBI have been hearing for months now
12:37that many FBI agents who have been devoted to domestic terrorism in particular,
12:43domestic terrorism squads and those working on domestic terrorism cases,
12:46have been diverted to the immigration enforcement effort,
12:50which is a thing that the FBI normally does not do.
12:52They've been required to go out on patrol, some full-time.
12:55Some have just walked away from their domestic terrorism duties.
12:58And this is at a time when, you know, as we all know, extremism,
13:02domestic extremism in this country is on the rise and political violence is on the rise.
13:06The FBI is the agency that we expect to address that.
13:09And it's not clear that all the resources that are capable of being brought to bear on this problem
13:14are in fact being brought to bear.
13:16Ken Delaney, and thank you very much for starting off our coverage with us tonight.
13:20Really appreciate it.
13:21And joining us now is Brigham Tomko, politics reporter for Utah's Deseret News.
13:27He interviewed Charlie Kirk before today's events in Utah.
13:32Brigham, today began as a kind of Charlie Kirk college event that we've seen many times before.
13:42Yeah, it was an exact copy of 60 or so more events he did just like this during the 2024 election cycle,
13:49where he spent around 200 hours on college campuses.
13:52And this American Comeback Tour, Charlie Kirk branded it as an opportunity to exercise free speech on college campuses
13:59and debate Gen Z about these issues.
14:02And Brigham, what are we hearing from local law enforcement officials in their investigation
14:09as compared to what's coming out of FBI headquarters?
14:14There are a lot of unanswered questions.
14:17They said that there is security camera footage that is giving them some leads,
14:21but the manhunt is ongoing.
14:24And they have been very tight-lipped about any other information they may have about the suspect.
14:29And as has been mentioned already, two suspects were apprehended before being released.
14:33So at this point, local law enforcement is just telling Utah residents to please call
14:37and inform them if they have any information or leads.
14:40And there was a shelter-in-place order, as I understand it, on the campus immediately after the shooting.
14:48And then when there appeared to be, according to some news reports, an apprehended suspect,
14:53that shelter-in-place order was lifted.
14:57What do we know about the current state of the situation on campus right now?
15:04I have not seen that shelter-in-place order renewed.
15:07What I have seen is the university announced that it will be closed until Monday.
15:11So for the rest of the week, I assume there will be law enforcement activity there,
15:15but students are told to stay away from campus.
15:19Brigham Tomko, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
15:25And, Andrew, as you go forward, what are you looking for in terms of next investigative steps that we might...
15:32Let's assume for a moment if we were to go another 24 hours or some period of time without any apprehending of anyone,
15:40what are the things that the investigation could be public about in the meantime?
15:44Well, one of the things that was relatively new during the Boston Marathon bombing investigation
15:51was essentially the sort of crowdsourcing that happened.
15:55Because if you remember what happened there is there was also video footage.
16:00And what went out publicly from the FBI was a picture of sort of black hat and white hat.
16:09And it was from local videos that were at the scene of the sort of finish line of the marathon.
16:16And because there was all sorts of concern about whether there were other people who were part of a larger conspiracy,
16:24whether there were other bombs that would go off, people didn't know.
16:28As well as just were these people going to commit further crimes.
16:32And so there was a real urgency in the same way that I am sure the FBI feels an urgency
16:38and a responsibility to the public and to Mr. Kirk and his family
16:42to make sure they do this as fast and as responsibly as possible.
16:45So what I could see happening is if they have video footage that is clear enough,
16:50we could see that same sort of effort to crowdsource to say,
16:54have you seen someone like this?
16:57There was a reference to the shooting here, just across the street from here,
17:02of the CEO.
17:03And the same thing happened there where there was a video that was where stills were put out
17:07that can really help in terms of crowdsourcing.
17:11Because in this day and age, between so many people having cameras and seeing things,
17:18that is a really good source.
17:20It's like the old-fashioned wanted posters, except now we can do it so much quicker.
17:25And so that is the kind of thing that I would expect.
17:28If that video footage is useful, we may very well see that going public.
17:34We have more statements from more eyewitnesses,
17:38which we will be bringing to you after this commercial break.
17:42At 5.17 p.m., Ezra Klein tweeted,
17:50In the last few years, we've seen the plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer,
17:55the storming of the Capitol and pipe bombs left at the RNC and DNC,
18:00the break-in to kidnap Nancy Pelosi,
18:03and the brutal attack on Paul Pelosi,
18:07multiple assassination attempts against Trump,
18:10the assassination of Minnesota House Speaker Melissa Hortman
18:14and her husband,
18:16and the shooting of State Senator John Hoffman and his wife,
18:21Luigi Mangione's assassination of Brian Thompson,
18:25the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
18:27Political violence is contagious.
18:29It is spreading.
18:30It is not confined to one side or belief system.
18:33It should terrify us all.
18:35The foundation of a free society is the ability to participate in it
18:40without fear of violence.
18:43Political violence is always an attack against us all.
18:48You have to be so blind not to see that.
18:53Here is what eyewitness Phil Lyman told MSNBC.
18:58Well, it was kind of astonishing.
19:01I drove up this morning.
19:02I live a bit south of Orem,
19:04and I met Charlie backstage and said hello to him.
19:09And the college kids were there, and it was just electric.
19:11And so they were coming out.
19:12He's throwing the hats.
19:14And after we started talking,
19:16I thought, I'm going to go up top.
19:17I had some other friends that was going to go up top
19:18and see if I could get maybe some good video from up there.
19:22And so I was way at the back of the venue
19:24and clear up on the second floor.
19:25I started to walk into the building,
19:27and I heard a loud bang behind me,
19:30and I looked around and looked at the person
19:31who I thought it was coming from
19:32because it felt like it was like 10 feet behind me.
19:35And I turned around and looked at this girl to see,
19:37and she was looking confused as well.
19:39And then I saw some commotion.
19:41So people started running into the building.
19:43I ran out, and they said, yeah, there were shots.
19:46So then I thought, I'm looking to see, you know,
19:49well, who was shot, and are there kids that are down?
19:51These are a bunch of college kids, and is he still around?
19:54And I thought, I know he's right close by.
19:58And in retrospect, I think he may have been on the roof above me
20:00because it was just so close.
20:03And I was asking the girls that were there, you know,
20:05did you hear it?
20:06Did you see it?
20:06Did anybody see anything?
20:07And then the police started showing up and yelling, you know,
20:10did anybody see anything?
20:12Can anybody help us identify the shooter, identify the shooter?
20:15And so then I ran down to the front again
20:18to meet with some of the college kids that were, you know,
20:20helping with the event, and they said, yeah, they observed the shot to the neck.
20:26And it was horrible.
20:27I talked to one of Charlie's people,
20:29and he said that they thought they had apprehended the shooter.
20:32And that was the word that went around,
20:34is that they've apprehended the shooter.
20:35So everybody, as far as that goes, I think was a little bit relaxed.
20:39Joining our coverage now is NBC News justice reporter Ryan Reilly,
20:44author of Sedition Hunters.
20:46Andrew Weissman is still joining our coverage.
20:49And Ryan, it is two hours earlier than East Coast time in Utah now,
20:54about 8.25 p.m. there.
20:56Is there any indication that we might be hearing any more
21:00from the people working on the investigation in Utah tonight?
21:05No, the latest update that we have from them
21:08is that the Manhattan investigation is still ongoing,
21:12that these two individuals who were in detention or in custody
21:17were being questioned.
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