00:00Pag-testify ni dating PCSO General Manager Ruyina Garma sa ICC laban kay dating Pangulong Duterte
00:07at ang possible application ng mag-asawang diskaya sa Witness Protection Program ating tatalakayin
00:14kasama si Assistant Secretary Miko Clavano, ang tagapagsalita ng Department of Justice.
00:20Asek, magandang tanghali po at welcome sa Bagong Pilipinas ngayon.
00:25Magandang tanghali po, Director Rachel and Yusek Aboy.
00:28Asek, dito po sa pagiging testigo ni dating PCSO General Manager Garma sa ICC,
00:37ano po ang naging proseso sa pagpayag niya na maging testigo laban kay dating Pangulong Duterte?
00:44Actually po, Director, itong role po ng Department of Justice sa ICC case ay nasa limited po sa Witness Protection.
00:55Ang ugnayan po between the Philippine Government and the ICC is only through the Witness Protection Program,
01:05Program Director.
01:06At only matters of protection are discussed.
01:11As for the case po, actually dumidiretso po talaga ang ICC kay Ms. Garma,
01:18doon sa kanyang mga statements at possible affidavits.
01:24At kaya siguro po ay pinalipad po nila sa Kuala Lumpur para po doon po sila magkita.
01:33And so, the substance of the affidavit and the statements po ni Colonel Garma are hindi po namin alam talaga.
01:43Ang inaalam lang po namin yung mga arrangements po nila and to make sure that she is safe and protected here in the Philippines.
01:51Well, Asek, ano naman ang mga konkretong hakbang ng DOJ upang masiguro ang kaligtasan ni Garma bilang testigo,
01:57lalo na't nabanggit, uniform personal pala, mga posibleng kalaban nito.
02:03Yes po, itong pagdating po niya last Saturday, after she was cleared by immigration,
02:11dahil po wala naman po siyang warrant of arrest,
02:13ay pina-escort po natin ng mga tag-NBI, si former Colonel Garma, doon sa kanyang tahanan.
02:21And the next day, nung in-advise po siya ng ICC na kailangan muna siyang umalis din ng bansa kaagad,
02:30ay pina-escort din po natin si former Colonel Garma sa airport.
02:36And si NBI director po mismo ang kasama niya po doon para malaman po yung next na mga hakbang
02:45and how to still keep the open communication between the Philippine government and her
02:51if in case na manganib po yung buhay ni former Colonel Garma.
02:55So, yun po yung mga hakbang na inano namin sa DOJ
02:59and we hope that she continues to be safe despite being in another country.
03:05Asek, ano naman po ang magiging efekto ng pagiging testigo ni Garma sa ICC
03:10sa kanyang pananagutan sa kasong kriminal na isinamba po ng NBI
03:15kaugnay sa pagkamatay ni Wesley Barayuga?
03:20Well, yung kay Wesley Barayuga po is, sa tingin po namin, is a part of a whole.
03:27Yun pong kaso na yun ay iisa lang.
03:30Ngunit sa ICC, ang kailangan kasi nilang i-prove doon ay isang pattern
03:34of widespread killing where they used state machinery.
03:41Kaya siguro po, if you look at it in the lens of a microscope,
03:49itong kaso ni Barayuga ang makakita mo, which we are processing
03:53and it's still under preliminary investigation here in the Department of Justice.
03:57Kaya lang po, pag nakita po natin yung buong scheme at pattern,
04:01although hindi naman natin trabaho yun, yun po yung trabaho ng prosecutor ng ICC
04:07para ilatag po yan sa ICC court,
04:10pag makita nila po yan, it will form a piece of the whole.
04:15So, importante yung case na ito para po ma-establish natin ang isang incident,
04:20pero ang mas importante pa dito ay makita po natin yung buong pattern.
04:24Well, Asek, paano naman kaya tinitiyak ng DOJ na hindi matatabunan
04:30or makakalimutan ang kasong ito habang nakatutok din naman sa kanyang testimonya sa ICC?
04:38Well, sa amin po, we are focused on what is before us.
04:43At dalawa po yan with regards to the ICC.
04:46Itong case po ni Wesley Barayuga, in which case na submitted na po for a solution ang kaso na yun.
04:53So, in a few days or weeks, we will see what the decision is by the panel of prosecutors in that case.
05:00At pangalawa po, tinitigan po natin yung kaligtasan ni former Colonel Garma,
05:05which is our obligation to the ICC in terms of this case.
05:12Asek, posible po bang magsilbing state witness si Garma,
05:15hindi lamang sa ICC, kundi pati rin po dun sa mga lokal na kaso dito sa bansa?
05:23Of course, ma'am, there is always that possibility.
05:27Kaya lang po, kailangan muna niyang ilatag yung information sa atin ng maganda.
05:35There has to be somebody who is more guilty than her in the case.
05:40Dahil isa po yan sa mga requirements para ma-discharge as a state witness.
05:45The person who is discharged as a state witness, hindi po pwede siya ang most guilty sa kaso.
05:51So, hanggat hindi po siya maglatag ng mga pangalan na mas guilty sa kanya,
05:58yung mga umuto sa kanya na mga ganitong bagay,
06:02we cannot consider her as a state witness yet.
06:04However, if the time comes at meron po siyang masabing mga pangalan na mas malaki sa kanya
06:12and who have more of a direct involvement here,
06:15then it is possible to consider her for witness protection and the state witness.
06:21Well, dito po sa DOJ, Yusek, we've always been and will always be evidence-based.
06:49Hindi po tayo gagalaw at yun po talaga ang policy ni Secretary Remulia
06:54na hindi po kami talaga gagalaw kung wala po kaming ebidensya na hinahawakan.
06:58And the evidence that we hold is not mere probable cause anymore.
07:02We are pushing for that threshold of reasonable certainty of conviction.
07:07Kaya we put upon ourselves the responsibility na kumuha ng magandang ebidensya
07:14para sa lahat ng kaso na tinefile namin sa korte.
07:16So, hindi po nangyayari ngayon sa bagong administrasyon ni Secretary Remulia
07:21na pwede tayo pumili kung sino ang kakasuhan at kung sino hindi.
07:26Basta nakalatag po ang ebidensya
07:27and it reaches the threshold na reasonable certainty of conviction,
07:32lahat po yan, tinefilean po natin ang kaso.
07:35So, with regards to playing politics,
07:39that is something that you should not expect from the DOJ
07:42under the leadership of Secretary Remulia.
07:45Asik, sa ibang usapin naman po,
07:48ano yung magiging pangunahing kondisyon ng DOJ
07:51bago i-consider ang pagbibigay ng immunity
07:53sa mag-asawang Pasifiko at Sara Diskaya?
07:59Alam nyo, this is something that is quite tricky
08:02kasi ang pinaparinig nila sa atin ay
08:08wala po silang choice na magbigay ng amount sa DPWH officials,
08:16kung sino man ibang officials ng government.
08:21Pero sa tingin po kasi natin,
08:22ito po ay isang conspiracy kung saan
08:25before the implementation of the project,
08:29alam na po nila kung ilan
08:30o magkano ang mga amounts na ihahati nila.
08:34That is clear from certain evidence also showed yesterday.
08:38However, if they can prove
08:40that they really were coerced or threatened,
08:45baka pwede natin i-consider.
08:48But under one condition,
08:49na kailangan nilang isa uli yung pera
08:51na nakuha nila illegally
08:53from these transactions.
08:56Hindi po talaga nagtutugma
08:57yung amounts that they have amassed
09:01that they so proudly show to the public
09:06in terms of their house,
09:08their assets, their cars.
09:11Hindi po talaga tumutugma
09:12sa mga sinasabi nilang 3% lang.
09:15Kaya pag malaman natin
09:18at madali lang naman yan i-verify,
09:20basta ma-establish na po
09:22yung truth commission ni Presidente,
09:24madali nang i-validate po
09:25yung mga sinasabi nilang mga numbers.
09:28And if it does not,
09:29if it does not measure up to the assets
09:33that they have so proudly declared to the public,
09:36then they have to return everything
09:38above their legal income.
09:41And that is something that the Secretary
09:43has put as a condition
09:45na kailangan muna nilang ibalik
09:48yung mga nanakaw nila,
09:51nakuha nila sa malihing paraan
09:52para po mapag-usapan na natin
09:54yung pagiging state witness nila.
09:57Well, gaya yung binanggit natin kanina,
09:59maraming mag-a-apply na state witness sa inyo,
10:01asikmiko.
10:01Pero ito, may tanong ho tayo
10:03mula sa GMA News Online.
10:05Regarding the disguise being state witnesses,
10:08are witnesses under the WPP
10:10required to return illegally obtained funds?
10:12If not, can the state require them
10:15to do so under the
10:15Whistleblower Protection Act, asik?
10:17Yes, that is the spirit
10:21behind the Whistleblowers Act
10:23na kailangan muna nilang
10:24isa-uli yung pera
10:25na nakuha nila.
10:27Just like the Secretary of Justice
10:29mentioned,
10:30we cannot afford
10:31to be laughed at.
10:33Dahil lang po binigyan natin
10:35ng witness protection
10:37at state immunity,
10:39it does not mean
10:40that they have the license
10:41to retain
10:44lahat po
10:45ng nakuha nila
10:46sa crime.
10:47Hindi man po
10:48ibig sabihin na
10:49dahil naging
10:50whistleblower sila,
10:52they can already
10:52get away
10:53with the illegal proceeds
10:55of the crime
10:56that they themselves
10:57are co-conspirators in.
10:59So,
11:00in that case po,
11:02madali lang naman
11:03intindihan yun.
11:04Hindi naman natin
11:05kailangan tumingin pa sa batas,
11:07pero
11:07dun lang siguro
11:08sa logic,
11:10sa simpleng logic.
11:11kailangan po talagang
11:13ibalik
11:13yung mga nakuha nila
11:15illegally.
11:18Asag,
11:18paano naman po
11:19tinitimbang ng DOJ
11:20kung ang isang tao
11:21ay hindi most guilty
11:23at karapat dapat
11:23ba maging isang
11:24state witness
11:25at sa kaso naman po
11:26ng mag-asawang diskaya?
11:30Well,
11:31there are other requirements
11:32that are needed
11:33to be discharged
11:34as a state witness.
11:35At isa dun po,
11:36yung statement nila
11:38ay kailangan
11:38necessary
11:39to the case
11:42and the case
11:43will not succeed
11:44kung wala pa
11:45yung statement
11:46na yun.
11:47Ngayon,
11:48kung,
11:49ang ibig po sabihin yan,
11:50if a statement
11:50is
11:51absolutely necessary
11:52in the case,
11:53that means
11:54there are no other
11:55corroborating evidence.
11:57If
11:57the Truth Commission
11:58can uncover
11:59documentary evidence
12:01through forensics
12:02that there are
12:04amounts that are lost
12:05and that
12:06the statements
12:07of the diskayas
12:08are corroborated
12:09materially
12:10by other
12:11object evidence,
12:12thereby
12:13no longer
12:16necessitating
12:17the statement
12:18as part of the evidence,
12:20then
12:20they do not need
12:21to be discharged
12:22as state witnesses.
12:25Pero,
12:25kung magtatayo
12:26yung,
12:27or
12:27tatayo lang yung kaso
12:29kung nandyan yung
12:30statement ng mga diskaya,
12:31then
12:32they can be considered
12:35still as state witnesses.
12:36But,
12:36we will have to cross
12:37the bridge
12:38when we get there po.
12:39Marami po tayong
12:40malalaman dito
12:41sa case na ito,
12:44lalo na
12:45through the
12:46Truth Commission
12:47that the President
12:48is composing.
12:50Ito na,
12:51maraming sumalaman
12:52yung sagot sa tanong na to.
12:53Matapos namang
12:54pangalanan ng mga diskaya,
12:56ang ilang
12:56umanog,
12:57di umanog isangkot
12:57sa anomalya
12:58ng flood control projects.
12:59Medyo marami rin may ito,
13:00Cyril, no?
13:00Mahabang.
13:01Ano magiging proseso
13:03ng DOJ
13:03para tiyakin,
13:04mapanagot
13:04ang mga ito,
13:05Yasek?
13:05Siyempre po,
13:09we always give due respect
13:10to the
13:11legislative.
13:13If in case
13:14meron po silang
13:14committee report
13:15after all these hearings,
13:17we would love to see it.
13:18Pero hindi rin po
13:19ibig sabihin na
13:20we will give full credence
13:22to everything that is said
13:22in
13:23the Congress
13:25and Senate.
13:26We,
13:26as the
13:27Department of Justice,
13:28in charge of filing cases
13:32in court,
13:32have to make sure
13:33that all these statements
13:34are validated and verified.
13:36We have to corroborate
13:37all the statements
13:38with object evidence
13:40para po mapalakas
13:41pa po natin
13:42yung mga kaso.
13:43A lot has been revealed
13:45and we thank
13:46the Congress
13:47and Senate
13:47for starting
13:48the ball rolling
13:49but with the establishment
13:50of the Truth Commission
13:52by the President,
13:53that will serve
13:54as the next step
13:55para po
13:56mas malalim na po
13:57ang investigation
13:59na mangyayari
13:59and hopefully
14:00and dapat lang
14:02makapag-file na tayo
14:03ng kaso after that.
14:05Asik sa usapin naman po
14:06ng missing Sabongeros,
14:08tanong po mula
14:09kay Luisa Erispe
14:10ng PTV.
14:11Ano daw po
14:12ang latest update
14:13sa remains
14:13ng mga Sabongero?
14:15Meron na po bang
14:15na-confirm
14:16na remains
14:17mula sa DNA testing po?
14:21Yes,
14:22the Philippine Coast Guard
14:23confirmed that
14:25they had retrieved
14:26from the lake bed of Taal
14:28another set of skeletons
14:31that are determined
14:33to be human remains.
14:35This was reported to us
14:38in the past few days.
14:40We are again
14:41coming up
14:42with an updated inventory
14:44and this will all go
14:45through the DNA testing
14:46which we have been doing
14:48since the start
14:49of the operation.
14:52Tanong naman po
14:53mula sa GMA News Online.
14:55nabigyan na ba
14:55ng sabpina
14:56regarding complaints
14:57sa missing Sabongeros?
14:59If yes,
14:59kailan na scheduled
15:00preliminary investigation
15:01po, Asik?
15:04Yes po.
15:05There has...
15:07Sabpinas have been issued
15:08from the preliminary report
15:11given by the
15:12National Prosecution Service
15:13as against the 59
15:16or 60 respondents
15:17in the case
15:18of the missing Sabongeros.
15:20Dahil po marami yan sila
15:22and we usually serve
15:25that personally,
15:27the service is still
15:28ongoing.
15:29So, nagsimula po tayo
15:30mag-serve ng Sabpinas
15:31kahapon
15:32at ngayon po
15:34nagpapatuloy po tayo
15:35sa pag-serve
15:36ng mga Sabpinas na yon.
15:38As to the date,
15:39I will have to confirm
15:40as to when exactly
15:42the first hearing
15:45in the preliminary investigation
15:47will be.
15:48Asik, sunod na tanong po
15:49ni Luisa Erispe,
15:51sino-sino
15:51at ilan na po
15:52ang napadalhan
15:53ng Sabpina?
15:54Kasama po ba
15:55ang business tycoon
15:56na si Atong Ang?
15:59Well, definitely
16:00pagkatapos ng service,
16:02he would have been
16:02served already
16:03with a Sabpina.
16:05I'm not sure
16:05if nasama po siya
16:07sa first batch
16:07or sa second batch
16:08today,
16:09pero po,
16:10ang goal po natin
16:11is to have everyone
16:12serve their Sabpinas
16:14by today.
16:15So, we can expect
16:16na all 59 or 60
16:17of the respondents
16:19would have been
16:20able to receive
16:21their Sabpinas
16:22yesterday or today.
16:24Apo, maraming salamat po
16:25sa inyong oras,
16:26sa ating kaibigan
16:27at lagi maasahang
16:28Assistant Secretary
16:29Miko Clavano,
16:31spokesperson ho
16:31ng DOJ.
16:32Salamat po, Asik.
16:35Thank you, Usec.
16:36Thank you, Director.
16:37Magandang araw po sa lahat.
16:39Thank you po, Asik.
