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00:00:00Today, on behalf of UC Berkeley, we welcome you all to an interactive session with Acharya Prashant.
00:00:06Acharya G. is a Vedanta exegete, philosopher and social reformer, columnist, and national best-selling author.
00:00:13Democracy has been the best system known to us.
00:00:17Now, limitations of the system are being ruthlessly exposed.
00:00:22Places where people are not educated are the places where democracy becomes its own annihilator.
00:00:32If these people can vote for me only if they are uneducated, then as a policymaker, I would deliberately keep them uneducated.
00:00:39We are honored to welcome Acharya Prashant G.
00:00:43Talking about, you know, global conflicts recently with multiple wars all across, you know, the globe, on the news every day.
00:00:51And, you know, sometimes can feel very, like, anxiety-inducing, but oftentimes it's, you know, a cause of human factors.
00:00:59So, we want to ask you, what human factors do you think have led to this unrest in global peace?
00:01:07See, it has mostly to do with the rise of right-wingism across the world.
00:01:21Israel-Palestine, Russia-Ukraine, and several other budding minor conflicts.
00:01:40If you look at them, some of them might not even be international in nature.
00:01:44But if you look at them, they are centrally related to the rise in right-wing attitudes.
00:02:00Now, where is that coming from?
00:02:04that is coming from a few places. I'll try to enumerate them.
00:02:15The first is that the democratic model probably itself is flawed.
00:02:21It is not populations that start a war. No. You cannot say Russians invaded Ukrainians.
00:02:30That didn't happen. It is the ruler, the man at the center that starts the war, mostly
00:02:42for his own personal ambitions and based on his personal ideologies. What's remarkable
00:02:51is that this man at the center, and that's what we are seeing across the world today,
00:02:56is mostly a product of the democratic process itself, or at least a semi-democratic process,
00:03:06at least a pseudo-democratic process, even in Russia. You won't officially call it a dictatorship.
00:03:15Right? And that's happening in the US as well. The democratic process believes that people,
00:03:29just as they are, are capable of taking wise and sane decisions.
00:03:40Now, this principle, this assumption, is obviously better than allowing some random person to assume
00:03:53authority. And that's why democracy has been, in a relative sense, the best system known to us,
00:04:01the world. But now, 80 years since the war, the limitations of the system, its fault lines are being
00:04:24ruthlessly exposed. You are talking about people casting their free vote. But people, are they free first of all,
00:04:41in the inner sense? If they can, be tempted, manipulated, excited, are they free? If people, if someone can come and
00:05:00incite you, with racist ideas, or communal doctrines, how free really are you? But democracy says, no,
00:05:18no, the person is the sovereign decision-making unit, and we'll respect that. So, I call that as fallacy of respect
00:05:35number one. Number one. There is another place that the liberal democratic system respects too much. We'll come to that.
00:05:45Yes, obviously, there has to be universal adult franchisee, and people should have the right to vote. But then, a lot must be
00:06:02invested in education. Places, where people are not well educated, are the places, where democracy is
00:06:15democracy, becomes its own annihilator. Tyrants come to occupy the throne, using almost perfectly legitimate democratic means.
00:06:33So, there is not much really that you can even complain about. The fellow will say, I am a democratically elected leader.
00:06:42So, along with democracy, what should have been mandated? Just as we say, universal adult franchisee. Similarly, we should have said,
00:07:00compulsory and compulsory and universal education till adulthood. For democracy to succeed. And for these insane wars to stop. You need educated populations.
00:07:19And then it comes to the matter of how to define education. Because our centres are determined by material profit and numerical success. Therefore, the highest kind of respect that we give to education,
00:07:46is to vocational and professional education is to vocational and professional education. Science, technology, as you have the STEM. Now, these do very little in terms of educating a young person about her own interiors. How does the mind function?
00:08:10How has man travelled through history? There is so much to be learnt from history. But a typical MBA grad is unlikely to know much of world history or psychology or philosophy or sociology or anthropology.
00:08:37Even though in the education market, even though in the job market, this person is going to command the highest price. You will say, what a well educated person this one is.
00:08:52B. Tech MBA. You can be a B. Tech MBA or whatever, or a doctor or this or that. But if you have not gone through education of the self, then you are extremely vulnerable to psychological manipulation.
00:09:14B. Tech MBA. I was going to say, yeah, I mean, at Berkeley, it's a public school. So, you know, those optional courses we're talking about before, you know, people aren't always really required to take them. And although every like engineering major has to take an ethics course, I've noticed a lot of students like my peers don't really care about them.
00:09:38B. Tech MBA. But even if I feel like I can take the time to understand and learn history and understand ethics, a democracy is a body of people and it feels very isolating to be the only one who cares and who feels like they understand.
00:09:54B. Tech MBA. How do you get the people around you? How do you get the people around you, get your whole body to systematically change if you're just one person?
00:10:01B. Tech MBA. Wonderful. So just as democracy is a system, similarly, the education that needs to necessarily accompany democracy has to be systemic.
00:10:16B. Tech MBA. You cannot say everybody will vote. But education is as per your own sweet will. Education has to be something that the state takes care of. And every single person must be educated right till the age of 25 at least, at least.
00:10:35B. Tech MBA. We have come to a point where with AI and stuff and increased longevity of life, we don't really have to start working necessarily at 21.
00:10:53B. Tech MBA. You need to start working at 21 if you were to live only till 60.
00:11:00B. Tech MBA. Or if you were to become a victim to many kinds of diseases and morbidities at 60.
00:11:06B. Tech MBA. Today you remain healthy till 80.
00:11:10B. Tech MBA. Today medical science has found ways to keep you not only alive,
00:11:20B. Tech MBA. But fully functioning for a longer time.
00:11:24B. Tech MBA. So you can devote 25 or 30 years of your prime to education and you must.
00:11:33B. Tech MBA. And you must. Why not?
00:11:35B. Tech MBA. And that has to be, we said, a system.
00:11:37B. Tech MBA. Otherwise you are very right.
00:11:39B. Tech MBA. You would feel like an island.
00:11:41B. Tech MBA. Well, I am concerned about all these things.
00:11:43B. Tech MBA. But others are taking a very emotional and a very instinctive and reactive view of everything.
00:11:51B. Tech MBA. And coming up with very superficial arguments.
00:11:54B. Tech MBA. But because these crowds are in large numbers,
00:11:58B. Tech MBA. So they prevail in a democratic system.
00:12:00B. Tech MBA. So we are at this peculiar point in history,
00:12:05B. Tech MBA. Where democracy will need to correct itself.
00:12:08B. Tech MBA. It is offering, we said, too much respect.
00:12:12B. Tech MBA. To human discretion.
00:12:15B. Tech MBA. It is assuming.
00:12:17B. Tech MBA. That man, as he is born.
00:12:20B. Tech MBA. A human being.
00:12:21B. Tech MBA. Just by birth.
00:12:22B. Tech MBA. Is capable.
00:12:24B. Tech MBA. Of exercising discretion.
00:12:26B. Tech MBA. That is not really the case.
00:12:28B. Tech MBA. We are not respecting the facts if we believe in this thing.
00:12:32B. Tech MBA. The second thing.
00:12:35B. Tech MBA. That the liberal democratic system is respecting too much.
00:12:41B. Tech MBA. Is faith.
00:12:46B. Tech MBA. Faith.
00:12:48B. Tech MBA. Which is nothing but a belief system.
00:12:51B. Tech MBA. You see, if I come to you, and I say, I believe in a flat earth.
00:12:58B. Tech MBA. You would smirk.
00:12:59B. Tech MBA. You would mock.
00:13:00B. Tech MBA. You might laugh at me.
00:13:02B. Tech MBA. And if you are kind hearted, you might want to educate me.
00:13:04B. Tech MBA. Right?
00:13:05B. Tech MBA. But if I come to you and say, I believe in a flat earth.
00:13:11B. Tech MBA. Because that's what my religious book says.
00:13:14B. Tech MBA. Then you would leave me alone.
00:13:17B. Tech MBA. And you would say, you know, it's a matter of faith.
00:13:19B. Tech MBA. And I respect all faiths.
00:13:21B. Tech MBA. No, this is nonsensical.
00:13:23B. Tech MBA. If we are free to denounce, contradict, bring down all kinds of irrationalities,
00:13:36and superstitions, and illogics, why have we continued to be so respectful of this thing
00:13:46called blind faith.
00:13:51B. Tech MBA. And people just get away with anything.
00:13:54B. Tech MBA. You know, it's my personal belief system.
00:13:56B. Tech MBA. I don't want to argue on it.
00:13:59B. Tech MBA. I don't want to argue on it.
00:14:03B. Tech MBA. I believe that land belongs to me.
00:14:05B. Tech MBA. I don't want to argue on it.
00:14:07B. Tech MBA. Now that would start a war.
00:14:09B. Tech MBA. I believe that that particular land belongs to me.
00:14:14B. Tech MBA. And don't argue with me, because this is my holy belief system.
00:14:20B. Tech MBA. My holy lord appeared in my dream, and commanded me to invade that land.
00:14:25B. Tech MBA. Argue with that.
00:14:29B. Tech MBA. And since decades, we have been educated to retreat in the face of such nonsense.
00:14:37B. Tech MBA. Somebody does a mathematical equation wrong.
00:14:42B. Tech MBA. You would not hesitate in correcting that person, right?
00:14:46B. Tech MBA. But somebody comes up and says, you know,
00:14:52B. Tech MBA. I believe the earth was made in four days by four holy angels.
00:14:59B. Tech MBA. You would not argue. Why not? Why not?
00:15:04B. Tech MBA. No, this is my holy belief.
00:15:13B. Tech MBA. I understand why this value system arose in the first place.
00:15:19B. Tech MBA. It was so that we can stay clear of conflict.
00:15:23B. Tech MBA. This person believes in one thing, citing it as holy or religious.
00:15:28B. Tech MBA. So, we said, let both of them maintain their beliefs in their personal private space,
00:15:39B. Tech MBA. And we are not going to argue with them.
00:15:42B. Tech MBA. But it's no more in the personal private space.
00:15:46B. Tech MBA. All kinds of bigotry and name any problem of the modern world.
00:15:58B. Tech MBA. And it is arising from a belief system.
00:16:01B. Tech MBA. It is arising from an unscientific and illogical view of the world and oneself.
00:16:06B. Tech MBA. And those who have reason and logic on their side,
00:16:14B. Tech MBA. They very respectfully retreat when faced with an unreasonable kind of animal.
00:16:21B. Tech MBA. Why this respect?
00:16:26B. Tech MBA. No, we don't want to hurt somebody's feelings.
00:16:29B. Tech MBA. It's not about feelings. It's about facts.
00:16:32B. Tech MBA. Facts must always prevail over feelings.
00:16:35B. Tech MBA. What is this dictum about not hurting anybody's feelings?
00:16:40B. Tech MBA. And if you don't want your feelings to be hurt, then you must keep your feelings
00:16:48B. Tech MBA. Very secured in your personal space. You must not expose them.
00:16:53B. Tech MBA. I'm not going to enter your house or your heart to hurt your feelings.
00:16:58B. Tech MBA. But if you come up with your feelings in the public space, and you even want votes
00:17:06B. Tech MBA. Or your feelings, then allow me to hurt your feelings.
00:17:09B. Tech MBA. But that's not happening.
00:17:13B. Tech MBA. Are you getting it?
00:17:18B. Tech MBA. Yes. I think all of us can understand, you know, the dynamic that we're speaking about
00:17:25B. Tech MBA. And how there is always, you know, kind of a...
00:17:30B. Tech MBA. We keep facts and we keep feelings on one scale.
00:17:34B. Tech MBA. And it really...
00:17:35B. Tech MBA. You just really need to find a balance between facts and feelings.
00:17:38B. Tech MBA. You cannot let one take over the other.
00:17:41B. Tech MBA. Otherwise, you won't be able to think...
00:17:43B. Tech MBA. I'll serve...
00:17:45B. Tech MBA. Be a little more ruthless than that.
00:17:48B. Tech MBA. You cannot have facts and feelings balanced against each other.
00:17:51B. Tech MBA. Otherwise, you lose out on the fact.
00:17:55B. Tech MBA. So, the fact is that the earth is an oblate spheroid.
00:17:59B. Tech MBA. And the feeling is that the earth is a flat plate.
00:18:04B. Tech MBA. How do you balance these two?
00:18:06B. Tech MBA. And what kind of special geography do you get from that?
00:18:11B. Tech MBA. Think of it.
00:18:14B. Tech MBA. How do you balance these two?
00:18:16B. Tech MBA. One of them has to prevail.
00:18:18B. Tech MBA. There can be no accommodation in this.
00:18:22B. Tech MBA. I guess I have a question.
00:18:23B. Tech MBA. Yes.
00:18:24B. Tech MBA. About different...
00:18:25B. Tech MBA. A lot of different religions have different facts.
00:18:29B. Tech MBA. And there's a lot of facts that we don't know.
00:18:31B. Tech MBA. We don't have the answers to yet.
00:18:33B. Tech MBA. So, how do we say that some facts are more true over others?
00:18:37B. Tech MBA. And is there not value in, you know, just believing that we won't have all the answers?
00:18:41B. Tech MBA. Or is it something that we should try to find?
00:18:44B. Tech MBA. We should try to find all the answers to these factors?
00:18:47B. Tech MBA. Lovely, lovely, lovely question.
00:18:48B. Tech MBA. You see, if I don't have the answer to something.
00:18:51B. Tech MBA. For example, physics still does not know for sure what dark matter is.
00:18:56B. Tech MBA. And that's a big unknown because dark matter constitutes 85% of the weight of the universe.
00:19:03B. Tech MBA. So, that's a humongous unknown.
00:19:06B. Tech MBA. But that does not mean that you come up with a fancy tale saying dark matter is some great monster
00:19:13that was created 4500 years back by this particular demonic force and these such things.
00:19:20B. Tech MBA. If I don't know, I simply say, I don't know.
00:19:23B. Tech MBA. And I am researching into it.
00:19:25B. Tech MBA. And I don't know when I will get the answers.
00:19:28B. Tech MBA. But coming up with stories and labelling them against facts just cannot be entertained.
00:19:39B. Tech MBA. And this is something that we… you see, it starts at the level of the family itself.
00:19:47B. Tech MBA. It starts at the level of your most basic relationship.
00:19:53B. Tech MBA. Don't you see how, in our most intimate relationships, feelings manage to get a weightage that they simply don't deserve.
00:20:06B. Tech MBA. And the results are never good.
00:20:10B. Tech MBA. Results are never good.
00:20:13B. Tech MBA. The feeling has to be aligned with the fact.
00:20:16B. Tech MBA. I am not talking of becoming unfeeling automaton. No.
00:20:20B. Tech MBA. But the feeling has to be aligned with the fact.
00:20:23B. Tech MBA. And then feeling itself attains a bit of sacredness when the feeling is aligned with the fact.
00:20:30B. Tech MBA. But if your feeling is rather aligned with your ego and imaginations, then how does one respect such a feeling?
00:20:39B. Tech MBA. But the world is…
00:20:41B. Tech MBA. But the world is…
00:20:42B. Tech MBA. But the world is…
00:20:43B. Tech MBA. Yes, please.
00:20:44B. Tech MBA. Yeah, another thing I was going to ask about this is, sometimes we declare things fact because someone in power declares it.
00:20:52B. Tech MBA. Like eugenics, for example.
00:20:54B. Tech MBA. You know, when in America, when the white people were in power and they declared eugenics was truth, how do the people who don't have the opportunity to speak voice their feelings?
00:21:05B. Tech MBA. Because in that way, they don't have the facts to say eugenics is not true. They only have their personal experiences.
00:21:11B. Tech MBA. You see, facts by definition are falsifiable. You do not accept something as a fact just because somebody in authority proclaimed it to be.
00:21:24B. Tech MBA. That's not the process by which somebody attains the status of a fact. A fact by definition is falsifiable, verifiable. There are peer reviews.
00:21:34B. Tech MBA. Einstein came up with his relativity theory and there was this huge book published against him.
00:21:43B. Tech MBA. 100 authors against Einstein. And he came up with a really smart one. He said,
00:21:49B. Tech MBA. If I were false, even one would have been enough. Why 100? Even one would have sufficed. Why 100? And that's the thing with facts.
00:22:06B. Tech MBA. If a fact is proven to be untrue even once, it loses its status. And it is publicly available to be tested and denied. You can test it. You can deny it. It is always in the public domain.
00:22:25B. Tech MBA. The acceleration due to gravity is 9.8 meters per second square. Now this is not a holy commandment. You and I can verify it on our own. And then it becomes a fact.
00:22:40B. Tech MBA. And then there are theories that are not yet in the realm of facts. It is just a theory. It looks like a good theory. This is a theory that is yielding verifiable results.
00:22:52B. Tech MBA. But still it is a theory. Because there still are gaps. So science is, I suppose, pretty honest about things. And just because things are commonly accepted, they just don't attain the status of facts.
00:23:12B. Tech MBA. I feel about this thing. I feel about that thing. Why do you feel so much? Go and read up. Instead of feeling so much, why not visit a library? An e-library available right on your phone.
00:23:25B. Tech MBA. I think what I was trying to get to is that, now having said that, the reality of our world is that facts usually come from power. It should probably not be that way. Facts should be, as you said, available in the public domain, up for discussion, debate, and perhaps even falsification.
00:23:50B. Tech MBA. But in today's world, you know, facts always come from a position of power. We are so conditioned to looking at things in monetary terms, that we believe that the one with higher monetary funds would perhaps be able to get a better judgment of the world is all about.
00:24:07B. Tech MBA. But just on to that, I was trying to get to the question of, it seems as though the most non-virtuous people, at least in the eyes of us.
00:24:18B. Tech MBA. May I address the first part of your statement? See, facts that come from power are called propaganda. That's not a fact. And if you believe in a so-called fact, just because it is coming from power, then it is belief.
00:24:34B. Tech MBA. There is propaganda coming from authority. And there is gullible belief on behalf of the receiver.
00:24:42B. Tech MBA. Nowhere is something called fact in the picture.
00:24:48B. Tech MBA. Why must I believe in something just because some big name is behind it?
00:24:54B. Tech MBA. Some big name proclaims, there is nothing called climate change, it's a hoax.
00:25:00B. Tech MBA. Somebody comes up and says, you know, population decline is happening. Why can't you check up the numbers?
00:25:08B. Tech MBA. Is it really happening? And it's a very verifiable number. I mean, you are just counting heads.
00:25:13B. Tech MBA. There can be no possible discrepancy in it unless there is a very organized kind of manipulation.
00:25:19B. Tech MBA. So, authority is in no way a touchstone for something being a fact.
00:25:30B. Tech MBA. And there is no need, one need. And that's the reason why we need to be educated in history and psychology and philosophy.
00:25:42B. Tech MBA. We need to see how entire nations for centuries could be successfully manipulated into believing in stuff that was totally fantastical.
00:26:04B. Tech MBA. I wash. Once you see that, you realize the vulnerability of the human mind to propaganda.
00:26:13B. Tech MBA. Right.
00:26:15B. Tech MBA. Right.
00:26:16B. Tech MBA. Yes, please.
00:26:17B. Tech MBA. Yeah. So, I mean, this just stimulated me even further and I was wondering,
00:26:23humans usually have this tendency of not being able to accept uncertainty. We always want everything secured.
00:26:30B. Tech MBA. We always want something that, you know, we know that 10 years down the line, I'll be in this job working at this company with this particular X amount of salary.
00:26:38B. Tech MBA. Right. And we always look for answers.
00:26:41B. Tech MBA. I mean, even in our personal context, when we don't know something, as students, we either try to go to our textbooks in our personal lives, we try to go to beliefs.
00:26:51B. Tech MBA. And often when facts are not proven, they are not verified or falsified, we just tend to blindly believe them just so that we can get some form of certainty, especially that's in my case.
00:27:03B. Tech MBA. You know, if I don't know whether something can be verified or not, I'll take it up from my parents.
00:27:08B. Tech MBA. I'll take it up from the people around me because I need something to believe in. I need something to be certain.
00:27:14B. Tech MBA. So how do you recommend people to not be afraid of this uncertainty, to embrace the uncertainty and to realize that not everything is black and white?
00:27:25B. Tech MBA. There is a color spectrum that we need to look at when we are looking at different opinions and ideas.
00:27:30B. Tech MBA. It should be, it should be quite easy. It should be very easy. No? Yes, of course, I agree. When we do not know of things, we turn to figures of authority.
00:27:43B. Tech MBA. Right? They could be parents or teachers or people around, sometimes even friends, colleagues.
00:27:48B. Tech MBA. So, my question is, name the most wicked creature in the world and I turn to these people for my answer.
00:28:05B. Tech MBA. And these are all cats. And I find that unanimously they agree that the answer is rat.
00:28:13B. Tech MBA. I mean, shouldn't that ring some bells here? And then I ask these people. This is another set. And they say cats. And I notice, I observe. I observe that these are all dogs.
00:28:31B. Tech MBA. Shouldn't that tell me that the answers in no way are reliable? You turn to your parents, the answer points at one direction. You turn to a career counsellor, the answer is pointing in another direction.
00:28:49B. Tech MBA. Don't you know that the answer is coming from their own centre of self-interest?
00:28:54B. Tech MBA. Should be easy to see. It should be easy to see. So, while it is true that one will ask people around and there is no harm in seeking advice, in letting information come to you from all sides.
00:29:12B. Tech MBA. But one must also see that the fellow providing the information is going to be biased. And that's why there is going to be a huge degree of subjectivity.
00:29:25B. Tech MBA. And what is good for that person who is counselling you need not necessarily be the right thing for you because he is coming from his own centre of self-interest which will generally not coincide with the point where your interests lie.
00:29:44B. Tech MBA. Totally yes. I think it's really important to understand the context as you were mentioning of where we are getting our facts from. Otherwise, the validity of those facts cannot hold in the first place.
00:29:59B. Tech MBA. Where is that person coming from? You know, sometimes it's possible that the person is uttering just the right thing. But still you have to ask him from where are you coming?
00:30:10B. Tech MBA. For example, you are in no mood to go out tomorrow, right? But your girlfriend is insisting and she says, no, such fine weather and sunny days now and we must venture out.
00:30:32B. Tech MBA. And so you look up the weather report, you look up the weather report and the weather report says there is a fair probability of turbulence tomorrow and it might even rain and there might be a blizzard or something.
00:30:49B. Tech MBA. And fine. And then she comes up with another report that says that the meteorological department has been off the mark exactly 37% of times.
00:31:01B. Tech MBA. Now the fact she is quoting is absolutely right. But you have to see where she is coming from. She is coming from a point of self interest.
00:31:10B. Tech MBA. She is not quoting the fact for the sake of the fact. She is quoting the fact so that she can elicit a particular favorable personal response from you that coincides with her own desires.
00:31:24B. Tech MBA. So, it's not as if people fool us just by hiding the real thing, just by hiding facts. Sometimes people fool us by quoting facts.
00:31:37B. Tech MBA. Even when somebody is quoting facts, you have to ask what is his motivation in quoting this particular number or whatever.
00:31:45B. Tech MBA. For that you don't need a degree. You need to be attentive. You need to observe. You need not be swayed by the authority of the person in front of you.
00:31:58B. Tech MBA. You have to ask. Okay, fine. This is where he is coming from. Can I disproportionately, neutrally look at him?
00:32:05B. Tech MBA. Yeah.
00:32:06B. Tech MBA. Definitely. I think that's a really great piece of advice for all of us here.
00:32:12B. Tech MBA. And we also had in mind, you know, in today's world we see the most non-virtuous people, at least in the eyes of us laymen, that become the most successful.
00:32:23B. Tech MBA. And we always feel as though the people at the helm are the ones that are wicked perhaps.
00:32:29B. Tech MBA. Or at least they do not have a strong inclination towards faith.
00:32:34B. Tech MBA. And we were wondering what your response is to, you know, when we always keep on preaching about the fact that we should follow faith.
00:32:42B. Tech MBA. But sometimes people feel as though faith never takes them to success.
00:32:46B. Tech MBA. Again, there can be different interpretations of success in this context.
00:32:50B. Tech MBA. But we were just wanting to know why is it that we see the most non-virtuous people at the helm of success in today's world.
00:32:58B. Tech MBA. You see, they are there not by the virtue of anything special or extraordinary that they have.
00:33:11B. Tech MBA. Right?
00:33:13B. Tech MBA. Okay, yes.
00:33:15B. Tech MBA. If you take a very slimy kind of liquid, thick and slimy, no?
00:33:27B. Tech MBA. And you put a speck of dust in it.
00:33:32B. Tech MBA. Or you can even take the speck of dust and place it right at the bottom of that fluid.
00:33:42B. Tech MBA. What would the fluid do to it?
00:33:45B. Tech MBA. It would throw it up right to the top position.
00:33:49B. Tech MBA. Because it is flying.
00:33:51B. Tech MBA. And it loves to put dirt on its head.
00:33:55B. Tech MBA. The person that you see at the helm of affairs, is a personal representation
00:34:06of an aggregate consciousness.
00:34:10B. Tech MBA. If you find that person to be non-virtuous or wicked, it is because people
00:34:16in general are non-virtuous and wicked.
00:34:19B. Tech MBA. So that's the person they chose for the top job.
00:34:25B. Tech MBA. There is nothing that special that that person has done.
00:34:29B. Tech MBA. In fact, if you can get a bigger crook, he would unsettle this man at the top.
00:34:35B. Tech MBA. There is nothing honourable there. There is nothing to be learnt from that person.
00:34:46B. Tech MBA. You cannot go to that person and ask him,
00:34:48B. Tech MBA. Please share your great secret with us.
00:34:52B. Tech MBA. How did you come to occupy this high throne?
00:34:55B. Tech MBA. He didn't come to occupy it.
00:34:58B. Tech MBA. He was placed there by forces beyond his control.
00:35:05B. Tech MBA. He might think that he is a smart man and he fought in election or did something great
00:35:10and then he manipulated the audience and this and that and then therefore he obtained the popular vote
00:35:15and got there, but that's not happening.
00:35:19B. Tech MBA. In the kind of system that we have, democracy, that person there is representative
00:35:26of how the electorate is.
00:35:29B. Tech MBA. And if the electorate continues to be confused, confounded, ignorant, bigoted,
00:35:40then these people will continue to sit atop.
00:35:45B. Tech MBA. So, there is no need to idolize them.
00:35:51B. Tech MBA. There is no need to take it to heart.
00:35:56B. Tech MBA. There is no need to feel demotivated or depressed on seeing such people at the top.
00:36:03B. Tech MBA. In fact, if they are at the top, in some peculiar way, it is the greatest insult
00:36:11that could be shot at them.
00:36:15B. Tech MBA. Assume, we here have some kind of counter mensa.
00:36:25B. Tech MBA. You know of mensa, right?
00:36:27B. Tech MBA. That hallowed group of people with high IQs.
00:36:32B. Tech MBA. Let's say this set of my friends sitting over here are a unique group of people with low IQs.
00:36:40B. Tech MBA. Let's say.
00:36:42B. Tech MBA. And they all elect me as their supreme leader.
00:36:47B. Tech MBA. Is that a compliment?
00:36:51B. Tech MBA. Or the biggest humiliation that I could face?
00:36:55B. Tech MBA. It is.
00:36:58B. Tech MBA. So, why should you be then jealous of me?
00:37:00B. Tech MBA. Or why should you then think, oh my God, this person, in spite of being non-virtuous,
00:37:05has attained such great heights?
00:37:12B. Tech MBA. Do your own thing.
00:37:15B. Tech MBA. I suppose it was Albert Camus who said that this world is so screwed up
00:37:24B. Tech MBA. That just being truthful to yourself is an act of great rebellion.
00:37:31B. Tech MBA. These are not the exact words. You can look up for the exact thing.
00:37:35B. Tech MBA. There is nothing in these people full of palm, pelf, power, nothing.
00:37:45B. Tech MBA. There is no way you should be ascribing any respect to them.
00:37:51B. Tech MBA. You need not go and throw a shoe at them. That's not needed.
00:37:56B. Tech MBA. But inside here, you should be free of any respect to them.
00:38:05B. Tech MBA. And when it comes to throwing a shoe, if you know you get such a chance,
00:38:10B. Tech MBA. That tattoo is fine.
00:38:12B. Tech MBA. Yeah, I had a question.
00:38:17B. Tech MBA. Because oftentimes, it's easy to feel disassociated from these people in power
00:38:22B. Tech MBA. And say that they didn't get there rightfully.
00:38:25B. Tech MBA. But at the end of the day, sometimes these people in power
00:38:27B. Tech MBA have such a weight over your life, society's life, if they're people in power.
00:38:32B. Tech MBA. And it feels demoralizing to feel hopeless that the people in power are not going to be representative
00:38:39B. Tech MBA. Or do justice to what we do.
00:38:43B. Tech MBA. So how do we, how as an individual can I make an impact to put people in power
00:38:49B. Tech MBA. And get everyone else to put people in power that represent us?
00:38:53B. Tech MBA. Create a little domain, a circle, a field of your own. Untouched, uninfluenced, uncorrupted.
00:39:04B. Tech MBA. Obviously, they are lording over entire countries and continents.
00:39:09B. Tech MBA. And practically we know we cannot go out and fight them. That's fine.
00:39:15B. Tech MBA. But still, we can have our own little private islands of serenity and sacredness.
00:39:22B. Tech MBA. And we should not allow anybody to enter those places.
00:39:29B. Tech MBA. Those should be our private temples.
00:39:35B. Tech MBA. Small places involving just the right kind of people for the right purpose.
00:39:41B. Tech MBA. And then as you grow in your inner rootedness, you might find that circle widening.
00:39:51B. Tech MBA. And if we can have enough number of such circles, each of them gradually widening,
00:40:00B. Tech MBA. One day they'll all come close and coalesce into a big upsurge of real virtue.
00:40:14B. Tech MBA. But you cannot start with the aim of something tectonic.
00:40:27B. Tech MBA. Let there be a great earthquake and let me bring all these structures of authority down.
00:40:33B. Tech MBA. You cannot start with that. You need not start with that.
00:40:37B. Tech MBA. Start with your little thing.
00:40:40B. Tech MBA. Five people, ten people, twenty people.
00:40:42B. Tech MBA. And keep widening, keep widening.
00:40:44B. Tech MBA. And know that it's human nature to strive for freedom, for purity, for sacredness.
00:40:54B. Tech MBA. So you would not be alone in this. Unknown to you, some other place, somebody else is doing the same thing.
00:41:03B. Tech MBA. And if your circles keep expanding, one day the two circles will come into contact.
00:41:13B. Tech MBA. And then something great will result.
00:41:16B. Tech MBA. Yeah, that's a really relatable statement for me because, for example, I'm very passionate about climate justice and climate change.
00:41:26B. Tech MBA. And, you know, UC Berkeley is said to be one of the very environmentally friendly universities.
00:41:31B. Tech MBA. But since coming here, I feel like a lot of my peers actually don't really care.
00:41:35B. Tech MBA. And you talk a lot about climate justice and climate change.
00:41:39B. Tech MBA. And I was wondering, you know, this idea that, like, I have this idea that, you know, climate change is my issue.
00:41:46B. Tech MBA. And as an individual, I have to do a lot for it.
00:41:48B. Tech MBA. And that it's also sometimes disheartening, especially because you see a lot of, like, big corporations doing most of the impact for climate change.
00:41:56B. Tech MBA. But I know you talk a lot about how climate change is, like, human consciousness related.
00:42:03B. Tech MBA. And I was wondering if you can elaborate on how our inner void and compulsive consumption are linked to environmental destruction.
00:42:10B. Tech MBA. And how we can also manage that as purely individuals that have such a much smaller impact on environmental degradation.
00:42:19B. Tech MBA. It's very simple. It can be explained even to a kid. And I do that. So, we are upset within. We are not okay within. We are unfulfilled and we do not know why.
00:42:37B. Tech MBA. Because we are not educated, not trained to have an inward focus in life. We don't look at ourselves. We don't reflect at our thoughts, actions, feelings.
00:42:49B. Tech MBA. So, we remain upset, unsettled within. And when we are that way, then we want to go out and do things.
00:42:58B. Tech MBA. Let's go somewhere. Let's eat out there. Let's fly to that place. Let me buy new stuff. Why can't I have a private jet? Why can't I fly to my job daily?
00:43:19B. Tech MBA. So, when you do things outside, it's obvious it requires energy. And it so happens that the more uprooted you are inside, the more is the number of unending things that you compulsively want to do on the outside.
00:43:47B. Tech MBA. I'm not at rest. I'm not at peace. So, sometimes I go and pick that up. Sometimes I go and, you know, try putting that chair over there. Sometimes I run upstairs. Drop something there.
00:44:06B. Tech MBA. Oh, what if I could have a badminton coat in the adjacent lawns. So, I'll cut down, uproot all the trees and have a cemented coat there. And I'll do all these things. And I'm doing these things because I'm not alright within. Just that doing all these things requires energy. Energy.
00:44:32And a thing of coincidence is that most of the planet's energy today comes from fossil fuels. Fossil fuels. So, when you go out and do things, you release carbon. It's as simple as that.
00:44:53Now, going out and doing things is not really the problem. Because if you are doing something for the right end, it usually has an end point as well. But when you do not know what you are doing, then you do it endlessly. Like corporate profits.
00:45:11Go and ask somebody in the board of corporate, you know, do you have an end point? This is how your P&L and balance sheet looks. Is there ever going to be a point where you would say enough is enough, it's saturated and we are not proceeding any further?
00:45:32We don't require at least an ever increasing number against my profits. Even a stable level of profits would do? Go and ask them. Not a single person, not a single CEO, not a single stakeholder is going to say there is a definite end point.
00:45:54They will say we require it to increase every year. Now, for it to increase every year, you will have to consume energy. You will have to dig out stuff from below the surface of the earth. You will have to burn things. And you will have to brainwash your consumers into believing that the products of your company are needed for them to have a sustainable or respectable life.
00:46:21You will destroy everything. You will destroy your employees as well. Because since you have no upper limit to your profit, so you will want to extract the maximum from your employees, offering the minimum you can to them.
00:46:40You would exploit the earth, you would exploit your employees and obviously you will exploit your customers. And all that is climate change.
00:46:50When you extract stuff from the earth that requires energy, that releases carbon dioxide and methane. When you brainwash your customers, they purchase not just your useless products. They get identified as being purchasers and consumers. So they keep on purchasing everything. Not just your stuff.
00:47:15Not just your stuff. And when you purchase, then somebody manufactures. For somebody to manufacture something, again what is needed is energy.
00:47:22So climate change is nothing but a product of the unfulfilled dark interiors of this species Homo sapiens. No other species is born with this kind of unrest within. No other species is responsible for the climate disaster.
00:47:44We are. Why? Because only the human being has a hollow in her heart. A hollow that she keeps trying to plug in using all kinds of material things. A new haircut. A new pair of shoes. A new husband. A new job. This, that and that.
00:48:13This, that and all of that is energy. I am not feeling well. Not feeling well. Your feelings are carbon. Because in feelings, as we said, there are no facts. You do not know what the facts of your insides are. All you have is feelings. And feelings are blind.
00:48:33Feeling. To feel so much is to experience so much without understanding anything. When you feel something, do you ever understand it? You feel you have a headache, right? That doesn't mean that you understand how the brain works and why it is aching.
00:48:51So, we feel a lot. So, we feel a lot. But we are not at all in touch with facts. And this feeling, given the kind of respect we give to feelings, makes us run hither dither. And all that is carbon emission.
00:49:06There can be no scientific, no economic, no political, no technological solution to the climate disaster. Not at all. Because this is purely a spiritual crisis.
00:49:19I agree that, you know, overconsumption is one of the biggest problems for climate change and climate justice. But sometimes it is not even overconsumption. You are consuming the bare minimum.
00:49:33But like you were talking about technological advancements. How do we stop our society from going stagnant? Because innovation, every innovation in every field now requires some sort of large carbon footprint.
00:49:48And how do we, is there a way to coexist with innovation, spirituality, and climate justice?
00:49:54You know, I do not see how innovation is out of tune with mitigating the climate disaster. Right now, what you call as innovation is nothing but a particular kind of innovation that would further the capitalist objective.
00:50:15We don't just innovate. We innovate only in particular directions. Directions that would enable us to have more profit.
00:50:23So, we are not having real innovation. Mind you. We only innovate where there would be an ROI on the innovation. So, it's not as if innovation goes necessarily hand in hand with consumption.
00:50:48That's the kind of innovation. That's the kind of innovation we are seeing. But that's not the rule. This idea that unless there are more profits and these things, we would not progress. Are we even testing this idea?
00:51:07You see, man does not exist for the sake of financial growth. Instead, financial growth is for the sake of the human being. Right? True. Do we realize first of all what we truly want?
00:51:26Now, obviously, to an extent, money is important in that. But isn't there a point beyond which the returns start diminishing? If you live in a third world country, with very little financial resources, then obviously, having money would contribute to your welfare. We all agree.
00:51:54Right? You would get better nourishment. You would probably get a roof over your head. Your students would get better schooling. Your kids, that is. All that would start happening. We understand.
00:52:06But a point comes when more money or more consumption does not contribute any more to your welfare. The curve starts flattening. Is that not so? And then there might be a point when the curve actually starts dipping. Negative marginal utility.
00:52:26So why do we continue to believe that unending growth in per capita income or per capita consumption is the sine qua non for human progress? That's not that way. It's an assumption that we need to challenge.
00:52:48Look at, there are several countries, where the per capita income is very modest. Yet, the average life expectancy is better than some of the first world countries.
00:53:09Look at, there are several countries. Innovations are happening at the same rate or at a faster rate than the global north.
00:53:21Japan is known to have people who live the longest. No?
00:53:28Are Japanese richer than the Americans? No. In terms of per capita income, no. But they are more peaceful and happier.
00:53:47So is capital, money, financial growth needed for its own sake? Or is all economics actually for the sake of the individual? And do we understand what the individual really needs? We are not saying the individual needs mystical salvation.
00:54:12No. No, we are not coming from there. No spiritual mumbo-jumbo here. We fully understand that we need money. But being rational people, we would also want to plot money against welfare and see where the curve attains saturation.
00:54:35And beyond that, if you are still invested in earning money, then you are wasting yourself, your life and also destroying the planet.
00:54:44That's what is happening. That's what is climate change.
00:54:46So I had an interesting point to add to this because the other day I was taking a class on human happiness here at Berkeley and we were discussing how in the US there is the curve that you just described.
00:55:00For an average American, the curve sort of stagnates at $75,000 annually. After that, the diminishing effect of money, as you say, sort of proves out to be.
00:55:14And it's interesting how within that same class, we were discussing how, sure, wealth is a factor of human happiness, but the primary factor of humans being happy is human relations, connection, your connection with oneself and with others, and how fulfilled you are in those connections.
00:55:33Wonderful.
00:55:34Yeah, it was just something that I wanted to add.
00:55:36Wonderful, wonderful, lovely, lovely. You see, is that something that the Forbes 500 chaps would want you to propagate? No, no, no. If you are happy in your relationship with yourself, and worthy people around you, would you find it necessary to go out and burn rupees or dollars,
00:56:02so that you can have some piece of unconscious happiness? They will not want you to know this, that money serves no purpose, rather negative purpose beyond a point.
00:56:17And just as I am glad you brought up this $75,000 figure, just as I am hearing it for the first time, I will look more into it and it's very interesting.
00:56:29Just as you could come up with a figure, beyond which the returns start diminishing. Similarly, there is an established figure on the per capita material consumption that is sustainable for the planet.
00:56:48We also have very established, very scientifically proven figures on the per capita emissions that can be sustained by the planet.
00:57:01So, all that is very well known. Just that the policy makers themselves are financed by the ones who want us to endlessly consume. And that's a problem with the democratic model.
00:57:17You see, I am the top manipulator and I want these people to vote for me. So, I will leave them worse off psychologically than they ever were.
00:57:36I will condition them. I will condition them. I will indoctrinate them. I will radicalize them. I will leave them worse off.
00:57:43That's what democracy does to an ignorant voter. Please understand, if these people can vote for me only if they are uneducated, then as a policy maker, I would deliberately keep them uneducated if I want to come back to office.
00:58:01If these people will vote for me only when they are radicalized, I will ensure I keep radicalizing them deliberately so that they keep voting for me. And that's a huge flaw in the democratic model. The entire world is experiencing it. We will need to correct it.
00:58:22Yeah, I also wanted to ask more on, you know, as you brought up a really interesting point about how climate change is not, it's more spiritual than anything else that we know of.
00:58:37And how we are ourselves the contributor to climate change, consciously or unconsciously. I was wondering then if that is the case, as you said, democracy has its own flaws. Who really is responsible for driving this spiritual change within folks? Is it us ourselves or who exactly should we look up?
00:59:02The culprit is the culprit is the fellow who understands, yet not acts.
00:59:09The electorate, we said, is ignorant in general. The ones in power have vested interests in keeping the electorate ignorant.
00:59:24Then who can be termed as responsible for the state we are in? The ignorant person is as good as someone asleep. If somebody is sleeping, you don't go and blame them, right? They don't know anything at all anyway.
00:59:44Who is to be blamed then? Who is to be blamed then? The fellow who knows and yet not acts. He is the one to be blamed.
00:59:55And this is the person all real positive change will come from. The fellow who knows and acts.
01:00:06Unfortunately, we have too many people who do not know, but act vigorously. And there is a great dearth of people who know, first of all, people who know, they themselves are a rarity.
01:00:21And even among this rare class, those who know and have the love, the guts, the responsibility to act. They are absolutely rare. Those are the people that will bring about change.
01:00:38Yeah, I, I completely agree with that. And honestly, like, I feel like I try to be that person sometimes, but it's really difficult. I'll give an example. I like, I live in the dorms and here, you know, the water or whatever takes a long time to heat up.
01:00:59And sometimes I've seen my friends, you know, turn on the shower, go and like do something else and come back. So it's warm. And I was telling my dad about this and I was like, yeah, like, I don't really like how people do this.
01:01:09And he's like, so you wait in this cold shower and you just like, you just deal with it because you don't want to waste water.
01:01:16And my dad tells me that, you know, the way to get it, like, you can't be the person taking all the burden and all the blame for climate change and dealing with it. Obviously, this is a very small example. It's just water.
01:01:28Like, how does one person manage that burden and, you know, even educate other people when oftentimes climate change is something that it's not an impeding issue for most people. It's not very urgent.
01:01:40So for many people, it doesn't feel like they have to do anything. And so for oftentimes people who do know and who do act, it feels like they're the only ones who do care and they can't get other people to care.
01:01:53It's a wonderful thing to bring up. You see, we said climate change is the thing that emanates from the hollow within the human being's heart, right?
01:02:08So, this would suggest, and so has been my experience, that addressing climate change directly does not help. Because it is, you are addressing the emission. You are not addressing the source of emission.
01:02:28The source of emission is not really the exhaust tube of the automobile. It is the heart of the human being. That has to be addressed. And if you address that, let's say without even bringing in these two words in the discussion, climate change, you might still find that the fellow has become, in general, more sensitive towards climate change.
01:02:46climate change, her actions, her relationships, her entire being. That's the problem with climate activism. We want to behave as if climate change has become more sensitive towards the surroundings, her actions, her relationships, her entire being.
01:03:07That's the problem with climate activism. We want to behave as if climate change is an isolated problem. We do not want to, or we fail to see the clear, very strong relationship between human, human unfulfillment.
01:03:36And the burgeoning emissions. It's not as if we have been especially unfulfilled only since the last 100 years or so, when the CO2 PPM started rising. We have always been like this, just that, till around 1850 or 1870, we didn't have the technology
01:04:06ecological means to burn so much fossil fuel, or burn anything, and reproduce so much, and sustain such large populations. We didn't have the wear with all. So just by virtue of our incapacity, the earth somehow managed to remain saved.
01:04:27But after the industrial revolution, we developed the might to do things on a never seen before industrial scale. We were always like that, you know, wherever we went, we brought destruction in our wake.
01:04:49It's not that we are destroying species, annihilating entire species just today. We have been doing that since centuries. Just that the rate has exponentially grown.
01:05:04We went to Australia. We went to Australia. What happened to the native species there? Both animals and human beings. We went to America. What happened to the natives there?
01:05:20Wherever, wherever we go, wherever we go, we go with a sword and a torch. We are destroyers. We are destroyers because we are unhappy within, unfulfilled within, joyless and loveless within.
01:05:37If you address that in a person, you might find that the issue of climate has been taken care of without even bringing in the word.
01:05:50You never talk to that person about climate and yet you find that the fellow has become more responsible.
01:05:57The fellow does not even know that his carbon footprint has shrunk. And yet it has. Whereas when you are on the side of activism, then you keep harping on this thing, you know, you please manage your water consumption and see you must shut down these lights.
01:06:18Or use less of this, use less of that. And all that is just so boringly moral. Who would want to hear that?
01:06:29So be it the vegan activists or the climate activists or the plastic activists, they are abhorred.
01:06:38People run away looking at them. Because they are so predictable. And what is predictable becomes boring.
01:06:46Now she will come and pontificate on this and that. I have had enough of that. No, I don't want that.
01:06:56Why not speak to people about their life, about their love, about great literature, about the pressing issues in the world.
01:07:07Take them deeper into themselves. There is such fabulous literature available on the wisdom side.
01:07:17Why not have a club that discusses such literature? And a very silent by-product of this thing will be that people will become more climate responsible.
01:07:29There is only one private editor towards the paper there is a very silent by-product.
01:07:33A very silent by-product of this ?
01:07:41i
01:07:52the
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