00:00joining me today at asianet news is ambassador venu rajamoli he was the ambassador to netherlands
00:19from 2017 to 2020 and he all he also served in the missions uh in hong kong beijing uh geneva
00:28washington dc and he was also the council general of india in dubai thank you so much ambassador
00:34for speaking with asianet uh i want to begin by speaking about pm modi's visit to china uh you
00:41know in last october 2024 we saw that india and china both the countries disengaged from the
00:47friction points but when it comes to military posturing and uh de-induction it has still not
00:54been done uh so uh you know given this particular scenario do you think that india china ties
01:01we can see it as a reset when pm modi meets xi jinping or is it simply going to be a simple
01:08multilateral followed by the bilateral meeting where only we'll see an exchange of information
01:14and not much can be read into it you know let me start by saying that a country can change its
01:22friends but it cannot change its neighbors whether we like china or we hate china whether whatever it
01:29does angers us or pleases us we have to deal with china we have to manage our china relationship
01:38therefore any meeting between an indian prime minister and the chinese president is extremely
01:43important and whatever positive results in breaks is good for the overall relationship
01:52india's relations with china have been complex and difficult we all know about the unresolved border
01:59question in 2020 the clashes in galwan led to the worst face of india china relations since the 1962 war
02:12after 1988 when prime minister rajiv gandhi visited china our relationship had shown a steady process of
02:21improvement and was getting better and better even though we had differences over many issues but
02:28india's attempt as prime minister modi has said previously was to try and see that differences of
02:34opinion don't turn into disputes and conflict tensions hostilities on the border so this meeting which
02:44comes in follow-up to foreign minister wangi's visit to india and to recent efforts made by both sides
02:54to slowly bring the relationship back to the level of normalcy that prevailed previous prior to galwan
03:01uh is uh important for the slow steps it will take in pushing the relationship back to a level of
03:08normalcy and as part of that process once again uh opening up the two countries to free movement of
03:18people free movement of trade and investment there are many chinese companies who are keen to invest in
03:24india and we have been trying to restrain their investments and to whatever coordination is
03:31possible between india and china in the international sphere concern considering what is happening in
03:38the world there will also be an indication of support for the process initiated by foreign minister wangi
03:47and the indian government the national security advisor as well as the foreign minister during his visit to
03:53india so i would see this as an important step forward in the path of bringing back the relationship to
04:01normalization and in addressing some of the fundamental questions that are important in our relationship that
04:09have been problematic in our relationship and also to look at the world to look at the future
04:16and to see what are the areas where we can cooperate and we can work with each other
04:22as well i want to talk about the u.s policy of hyphenation recently in operation sindoor we saw that
04:29u.s is treating linking india and pakistan and aggressively pushing this hyphenation policy and india is
04:36definitely condemning it but when it comes to china in operation sindoor we saw that chinese fighter jets
04:42were used by pakistan were used by pakistan against india uh what is the military understanding between
04:48india and china under this particular situation well i think we should understand what china's policy
04:56towards south asia is we should try and see how we can influence that policy to change
05:05uh china so far has been very clear in accepting that india is the predominant country within the
05:15south asian region that india is a very important partner internationally and in terms of long-term
05:22economic benefit india is more important than anyone else however it has a long-standing relationship
05:31with pakistan it is not just a question of fighter jets or missiles but in the past china is a country
05:39which transferred nuclear technology to pakistan through north korea and even during the recent
05:48hostilities between india and pakistan china is supposed to have provided real-time intelligence
05:55from its satellites from its satellites to pakistan which enabled pakistan to try and mount defense
06:02against the indian attacks so the chinese position is that it is against terrorism and to the extent
06:10what happened in palgam was wrong it will condemn it but it will not accept india going in and
06:19attacking pakistan or trying to undermine pakistan it has repeatedly reiterated that it stands by the
06:26sovereignty of pakistan so we should be realistic enough to understand that china is not going to
06:32abandon pakistan but yet china considers the india relationship very important and is willing to
06:40cooperate in building it and in strengthening it similarly with other countries in south asia china
06:46has important relationships considering china's political economic and military clout those
06:52relationships will grow china does not see that as being against india and will not permit india to
07:01veto those relationships yet china does not see any of those relationships growing to be a more
07:08important that of their india relationship so india has to play its diplomacy intelligently we have to
07:16wield our diplomatic tools uh smartly to try and strengthen relations with china so that they come
07:24more and more to our point of view of thinking if you take pakistan for example we have to continuously
07:31give the message to china that terrorism coming out of pakistan is not in the interest of
07:37china too it is not just something which doesn't benefit india but it is not in the interest of china and
07:43china must put pressure on pakistan to eliminate terrorist scams to arrest terrorists and to
07:49hand over those responsible for terrorist incidents in india to us for justice uh ambassador said that
07:57china is not going to abandon pakistan but when it comes to multilateral forums like seo uh these
08:04organizations were built on the core objective to combat terrorism uh do you think that china is doing
08:11its part all the members of the seo do you think that they are emphasizing enough of the fact that
08:16pakistan is actually breeding terrorism on its soil it is certainly not doing enough and seo is a very weak
08:24organization it was an organization created for the purposes of fighting against terrorism against
08:32against extremism against militancy etc it was a forum which began with russia china and other countries
08:42seeing terrorism as a major threat other countries meaning mainly central asian countries both to their
08:47domestic stability as well as within the region however with the joining of pakistan in seo and because
08:58of the principle that all decisions are taken by consensus pakistan effectively gets a veto over
09:04anything that seo decides or says its joint statements for example therefore it's highly unlikely that anything
09:13very important or very productive will come out of the seo meeting in my view seo exists so india goes
09:20and attends the seo meetings it tries to salvage whatever benefit it can out of that relationship
09:26otherwise this visit of prime minister modi to china is much more important for his bilateral
09:33conversations with president xi for the meeting he will have with president putin and perhaps for the
09:39non-meeting he has with the pakistan prime minister i do not expect a meeting to take place if at all a
09:46handshake takes place that itself will be big news so the world will watch the optics but considering the
09:54state of india pakistan relationships uh relationship currently uh uh recovery uh going back to
10:01normalcies on the front with pakistan is still far away therefore our improving relations with china
10:07becomes even more important ambassador yesterday we saw a report which said that trump is very unlikely
10:13to attend quad summit in india do you think that u.s can withdraw from quad and how substantial
10:20is the grouping right now no i think you're over interpreting the developments as of now we only
10:25have a news report which says that trump may not attend the summit so we do not know what will happen
10:33with the summit whether the summit will be postponed whether the other leaders will decide to go ahead
10:38without trump whether secretary of state mark rubio will attend it there is no signs of the quad
10:47dropping or collapsing or immediately nor has the us given any such indication the quad has a lot of
10:56merit on its own it has already done a great deal of work it makes sense for countries like india
11:04australia japan and the us to come together and work in the indo-pacific region and president trump
11:14even if he is unhappy with india or he is unhappy with the quad his term is only four years we should
11:21not equate trump with the us india u.s relations has a very strong foundation it is a mutually beneficial
11:29relationship for the last 20 25 years it has been steadily growing under different presidents in the
11:36u.s and different governments in india i do not see uh one individual presidency or even uh the current
11:45mood of president trump as completely destroying that relationship or setting it back and president
11:51trump himself is known for being unpredictable and flip-flopping on his policy positions uh india is
11:59engaged in talks with the us and for all you know president trump may change his views in the future
12:06so if you're saying that trump is not trying to pivot away from asia pacific then in one of your
12:12articles you wrote about india u.s china triangle where you talk about how one each country in this
12:18triangle should be able to you know look after their own economic interest and also uh you know deal
12:26with the things issue by issue basis do you think that this is possible given the fact that trump is
12:31in white house right no that monograph which i wrote essentially talked about a soft balance of
12:38power i said that if you look at the india china u.s triangle each country will try to maximize the
12:47benefits it can get from one other country without reducing or compromising on the benefits it can get
12:54from the third country so on some specific issues we may be closer to china on other specific issues
13:00we may be closer to the us but this is a tango that we will play and we will not have permanent
13:07hostility or permanent friendship with either one country we will look at where our benefits are
13:12and then we will proceed accordingly so even today we must note and remember that for china if you
13:21were to ask china what is the most important relationship that it has in the world it will
13:25say the united states if you were to ask russia what is the most important relationship it has in
13:31the world it will say the united states so similarly for india too just because of president trump's
13:39current views we should not dismiss the united states or abandon our efforts to strengthen relations with
13:48the us we must work around the problems that we have been faced with and try and find reasonable
13:55solutions that meet the interests of both india and the us and while we continue to improve relations
14:03with china and maintain and strengthen the strong relationship that with russia that we already have
14:10we must keep in mind that none of them can be a one window solution for india's needs of the
14:18future we need all these three countries and we must continue to work with all three of them
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