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00:00She comes over to me, and she looks down at me, and she goes,
00:03Help! God, I want you to get up. I want you to be like a cheerleader.
00:07Somebody else goes, Don't say a word. I don't like it.
00:10And my parents always taught us that every generation gets better.
00:13I even have to be better than that. Why didn't you tell us?
00:15My dad believed in me as much as my brother.
00:18It was so exhilarating to win that first one.
00:22You know, I see the cup now, and now it's even named after it.
00:24I'm like, Oh my gosh.
00:26That was so bad.
00:30You ready for us to go?
00:32Hi.
00:33Billie Jean, welcome.
00:34Thank you.
00:35This series is all about talking to inspiring women in tennis, specifically,
00:40and specifically around the Billie Jean King Cup.
00:42So who better to speak to than you, really?
00:46And I want to jump in and start by asking you about
00:50who are the women that served as the biggest inspiration for you,
00:54even now or at the beginning of your career,
00:57at the beginning of your tennis life?
00:59Well, as a child, I used to read my history.
01:02And my first She-Row was Althea Gibson,
01:05who I got to see live at the Los Angeles Tennis Club
01:08when I was 12 or 13 years old.
01:10And I knew I wanted to see what number one looked like.
01:13And like, Oh gosh, she plays so well.
01:16I'm going to have to be better than that.
01:18And my parents always taught us that every generation gets better.
01:21So I'm saying, I even have to be better than that, probably.
01:24And they're right.
01:25Every generation does get better.
01:26She was my first one, though.
01:28And then Alice Marble, who won the Triple Crown here in 1939,
01:32in 1939, played mixed with Bobby Riggs, which is even more ironic.
01:37She taught me.
01:38I was lucky enough to get time with her for like two or three months when I was 15.
01:42And my ranking totally jumped.
01:45I was like number 19 in women's in the U.S.
01:48And the next year I was number four.
01:50And it's because of Alice Marble and all the knowledge she gave me.
01:54And I remember everything she told me.
01:56You know, like she walks out and goes,
01:57Come over here and stop, you know, stand on this service line.
02:00You see this?
02:01Everybody thinks these are gimme's.
02:03They're not gimme's.
02:04Boy, I can remember that so clearly and everything else, too.
02:08But I don't know.
02:10I think each generation, I've seen a lot of different generations come and go.
02:14And I'm always inspired by every generation, you know, different people, different reasons,
02:18different progress in our sport, on and off the court.
02:21But, you know, the three guys, Djokovic, you know, Federer and Nadal were just Nadal for his intensity, his grit.
02:30And then you get Federer who's more of a beautiful player, a classic.
02:35It was always so funny because all the adults loved Federer.
02:37And all the kids loved Nadal when I would ask, Who do you like?
02:41And that's what they'd always say to me.
02:42It was either one or the other.
02:44I'm not sure why.
02:45Well, I think it's the grit and the intensity and maybe.
02:48I don't know.
02:48I asked them why.
02:49The generational.
02:49Yes, generational though.
02:50That's so sweet.
02:51And then, you know, as far as the women, there's just been so many unbelievable players as well.
02:57I'm lucky to have been a part of their lives, even playing doubles with Martina Navratilova, Chris Everett.
03:03Their rivalry was probably the best ever.
03:06They had 80 matches, which is in boxing or other sports.
03:11Most people don't play each other or compete against each other, you know, 80 times.
03:16And they were almost even.
03:17And so their matches, because they had a contrast of styles, were just amazing.
03:22And then all the general.
03:24Stephanie Groff, her footwork was just, oh, my God.
03:27She wants to be called Stephanie now.
03:30You know, it was always Steffi.
03:31But she said, I really want to be called Stephanie.
03:33I'm like, why didn't you tell us?
03:35So anyway, she wants Stephanie.
03:37And then there's just so many great ones.
03:38And right now, I think women's tennis continues to have more and more depth because women's sports.
03:45We have more women playing sports.
03:47And so our depth is getting amazing.
03:51Anybody can beat anybody on a given day.
03:53I think, yes, it's quite amazing.
03:55And you mentioned at the beginning that a coach who, Alice, who was your coach when you were, during your formative years.
04:03I mean, having a strong female role model in sport isn't a given.
04:07And even now, and back then, maybe it wouldn't have been a given.
04:10I just wonder what an impact it had to have a woman kind of to inspire you in that moment.
04:15Very inspiring.
04:16But my dad believed in women.
04:18And my mother as well.
04:20But my dad really would talk about it.
04:22My dad believed in me as much as my brother.
04:25And he was really my life coach.
04:26So I had a huge male influence.
04:28But how he influenced me is what's important.
04:31That you need to go for it.
04:32You need to believe in yourself just as much as a male.
04:35That carried over.
04:36And then when you meet Alice Marvel, and you meet Althea Gibson, it just carries over.
04:41Because I kind of got the okay at home that women count just as much as men.
04:47So when I'm watching a male or a female, I just think they're great.
04:49I don't think about their gender that much.
04:53And when you think of the people that inspire you, what's the kind of common thread then that runs Zoom?
04:59Is there a common quality that you look for, that you take inspiration from?
05:06I like it when they think about we and not me.
05:09That's major for me.
05:11If it's just about themselves, the interest kind of wanes pretty quickly.
05:15But if it's a we person, then I really want to get inside their head because they've thought a lot more about things.
05:23It's not just about their little pathway.
05:25And I think we need more of that in our sport, but they're at a different time.
05:31They've got more money, and now they've got agents, they've got all these people around them.
05:35We didn't have any of that.
05:36We couldn't afford a coach, so we had to depend on each other.
05:39So our relationships were very strong.
05:41They still are today, which I think is fantastic.
05:44You know, Rosie Gonzalez, Betty Stove, Ann Jones, all of them.
05:48Like, we see each other, done.
05:51It's like the guys with their fraternities.
05:52It's the same way for girls, you know.
05:55So it's pretty exciting.
05:57I love that.
05:58And, I mean, you have so many memories as a player and as captain in this competition in the BJK Club.
06:05I love being captain.
06:05Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that, because you captained some of the all-time greats.
06:10The Williams sisters.
06:11No kidding, you think?
06:11Yeah.
06:12Monica Sellers.
06:13I mean, too many to name, but I wonder, what did you learn from them as captain?
06:17Oh, I learned constantly from them.
06:21And also to be a leader, how do you lead?
06:23How do you make sure they know you care about them as a human being, not just go to win for the, you know, team or the country or whatever,
06:31which was very important to me, though, too.
06:32I spent so much time listening and asking questions, each one.
06:39Like, I had a meeting with each player by themselves.
06:42Then I had team meetings.
06:43But the first meeting, I always had the whole staff, the support team and the players.
06:50And I introduced each other.
06:52And I told the team how important the support team is.
06:57Well, whether it's a physiotherapist, a massage therapist, administration, whatever.
07:02They are just as important as each and every one of us.
07:06And I must say it made a difference, I think.
07:09We also, every Wednesday of the week, I would make sure we all went out to dinner.
07:14But we were there to thank the support staff first on Wednesday.
07:18On Wednesday, I'd also, during the day, would have a team meeting and make sure we go around each player and analyze who we're playing.
07:25And I would always tell them, you know more than I do because you're still playing and you're playing against these players.
07:31So I'd like each one of you to contribute to about who we're playing and what are your thoughts, what are their strengths, what are their weaknesses, what have you noticed, how did you beat them, or how did they beat you, why.
07:42And we would go around to each player.
07:45And I said, you guys know more than I do because you're still playing.
07:48So I really need you to do this.
07:50And they were fantastic.
07:53I knew it through them for a loop, though, because they took a beat.
07:55Like they're going, oh, I've got to think about this.
07:59Because I pretty much put them in my role in a way.
08:01Like they're going to help tell the team they played so-and-so and this is how they won or they had trouble with or whatever.
08:09But I said, you guys have more knowledge.
08:10You're playing against them.
08:11I'm not.
08:12So I really wanted them to contribute.
08:14And I also thought it would bring us together more as a team.
08:17Actually did.
08:19But to have the support staff Wednesday night to tell them thank you to dinner was very important.
08:24Because I wanted them to understand it's all of us.
08:26Each of everyone matters.
08:29And without them, you wouldn't be able to play.
08:30You wouldn't have the life you have.
08:33And then that created more of a connection because relationships are everything.
08:39And then Friday night, only the team had dinner with the two coaches.
08:46Like Zena Garrison was a coach one year.
08:49And I said, you're coming, but nobody else.
08:52Nobody else can come.
08:53But the team, it was hilarious.
08:57Venus and Serena made it so hilarious.
08:59I cannot tell you.
09:00I don't know what year it was.
09:02All I know is we just laughed and laughed and laughed on a Friday night, which is right
09:05before the matches, which put everybody in a good mood.
09:09And I hope we won that year.
09:10We must have won.
09:11We were in such a good mood.
09:12And, you know, I had the greatest players ever in the world.
09:15And I knew it at the time.
09:18I used to tease them.
09:19I said, oh, I've only got four number ones here.
09:21Four number, former ones are number ones now.
09:23Oh, this is not too shabby for a coach, you know, or for a captain.
09:27And we'd get them laughing.
09:28But they were amazing.
09:30And we had so much fun.
09:32At least I did.
09:32I shouldn't say we.
09:34I had a lot of fun with them.
09:35They were hilarious.
09:36I mean, it sounds so interesting to hear you talk about that kind of behind the scenes,
09:41especially because on the outside, like you say, you had four world number ones.
09:45Monica Sellis was fantastic.
09:48She was great.
09:50Very organized.
09:52I think, in a way, some of us are almost O.C., the way we do our little habits.
09:58Tracy Austin, Monica, all of them, they had their rituals.
10:02I always had mine.
10:03And it was quite funny to see everyone's rituals or weren't into them either.
10:08Their water had to be in a certain place.
10:10The towel had to be folded a certain place.
10:11The racket had to be a certain way.
10:14When they sit with you, some players don't want you to say a word.
10:19I always, oh, this is another thing.
10:20I always ask players before, do you like a lot of enthusiasm from me or none or a little?
10:26What do you want?
10:27Like Mary Jo Fernandez?
10:29God, I want you to get up.
10:30I want you to be like a cheerleader.
10:32I love your energy.
10:33I get it.
10:34Somebody else goes, don't say a word.
10:36I don't like it.
10:38So I would check in with every one of them before the weekend to make sure I know what they like and don't like.
10:44That's really a major thing to cope with.
10:46Of course.
10:47And you have so many different personalities.
10:48Oh, and then you've got some players.
10:50You keep changing.
10:51They want you to talk and then they want you to be quiet.
10:53Oh, that's a good one.
10:55She knows who she is.
10:58Not naming names there.
10:59She knows.
11:00She probably would tell you the same thing.
11:02I can ask her if she'll tell you.
11:04And I mean.
11:05Because I don't want to, you know, it's private.
11:07Yeah, no, of course.
11:08You're a team.
11:09You've got to keep some things within the team.
11:10And I mean, they must have learned so much from you too.
11:14Oh, I doubt it.
11:14But I learned from them.
11:15I don't know what they learned.
11:17They must have learned from you.
11:18I just, yeah.
11:18But can you imagine having four number ones?
11:20Yeah, but you're a former number one as well.
11:22Come on.
11:23But that's like, I just thought, I just took a beat and thank God how lucky I was to have,
11:28I mean, some captains never get anybody like that.
11:31They get, they're just struggling.
11:33And you want to win for your country so badly.
11:35You know, it's just at least most of the players that I ever played that I know just really
11:41were on the line with that.
11:43And, you know, I was 19 and I got to play in the very first one in London at Queens Club,
11:48now a Billie Jean King Cup.
11:50It was Federation Cup.
11:51And it was the 50th anniversary of the ITF's birthday.
11:55It's the reason I started it.
11:57And I was the second best player.
12:01Darlene Hard was our best player.
12:03And Carol Caldwell was our player.
12:05She and I were probably a toss-up.
12:07And I had known Darlene.
12:10Darlene helped me when I was also young.
12:13You see all the help I got?
12:15But I wanted it too.
12:16The players, they don't want older players to be around them all.
12:19Like, get lost.
12:20My coach is my guy or my whatever.
12:23I think it's a mistake because I love talking to all the older players.
12:26I probably have over 100 years.
12:28Kitty Gottfried, who won 22 and 24 maybe, she was my first one.
12:33Dorothy Round I would talk to in the locker room.
12:36I mean, I have all these players throughout.
12:37I mean, every one of them.
12:38Margaret DuPont, Louise Brough, Maureen Conley, I mean, Shirley Fry.
12:43But Darlene was so nice to me at 13.
12:45Althea Gibson, when I first saw her.
12:49I mean, I talked to Louise Brough.
12:52Margaret DuPont was my Whiteman Cup captain.
12:54She was fantastic.
12:55You know, and I just asked for their stories.
12:58Just listen to their stories.
13:00Fascinating.
13:01And you learn so much from them.
13:03But they all love playing Whiteman Cup.
13:05And then they wanted to, of course, when they're older,
13:07wish they could have played Fed Cup or Federation Cup or Billie Jean King Cup now.
13:10And I know Margaret wanted to give them a, Margaret DuPont wanted to give them a trophy for the Federation Cup.
13:17And they said no.
13:18They made their own, which is beautiful.
13:21But I remember being at Queens and just yelling at the team.
13:24I've told this story a thousand times, so sorry if you've heard it.
13:27But I said to Carol and to Darlene, and our captain was Mr. Kellogg.
13:33He's part of the, our USTA, USLTA then.
13:37And he fell off the bench once.
13:39Oh, my God.
13:39He was so excited.
13:41He fell off.
13:41We all had to run over and pick him up.
13:43You know, but we were going to play at Queens Club on the grass.
13:47We had 16 teams the first year.
13:49They were invited.
13:50And it rained, so we went indoors on the board.
13:53Oh, my God.
13:53It was so fast.
13:54Everything's like a half volley or no backswing, and you have to bunt the ball.
14:00But I kept saying we have to win the first one because I love history.
14:04And they're saying I'm not her again.
14:06I know I was driving them crazy, but you guys, you don't get it.
14:09For the rest of our lives, on this cup, it's going to say USA if we win.
14:14If we don't, we're going to remember that we lost to whoever wins, probably.
14:18So we won, but we were down match points to Australia.
14:21Margaret Smith at that time, now Margaret Court, and Leslie Turner, who is now Leslie Turner Bowery.
14:27We played against them.
14:28And they definitely were the two top players in the world.
14:31And we were down there then, and I remember yelling at Darlene because I got feeler kind
14:34of like, eh, we're going to lose this.
14:36And I'm like, we have to win this.
14:38I was yelling at her, and she started laughing.
14:41Okay, okay.
14:42And we won, but we were down match points.
14:44I mean, it was, and on boards, it was, it's so hairy.
14:48I mean, it was, it was so exhilarating to win that first one.
14:53And then, you know, I see the cup now, and now it's even named after it.
14:56I'm like, oh my gosh.
14:57And there it is, USA.
14:59So I get so excited, and I always remember that.
15:02And here's Darlene Hart, who helped me when I was 13.
15:05I'm on the team with her.
15:07I mean, it couldn't have been better.
15:08Mr. Kellogg was a riot, falling off the bench.
15:11We had to pick him up.
15:12Oh my God, he was so, he said, I'm so nervous.
15:14You know, everybody gets so nervous when it's more than yourself, bigger than yourself.
15:19It's very interesting.
15:20There's a different edge to it than when you play in a tournament.
15:23And I think for me personally, it's the most important thing.
15:27I've got to win when it's for my country.
15:30It's more than yourself when you go and play in tournaments.
15:34To me, it was always more than myself, but it's different.
15:38It's got to, oh, there's a lot more pressure.
15:41I bet, I bet.
15:42You were talking there about kind of wanting to lead the team,
15:45or wanting to will the team to win.
15:47You've been held up as a leader for your whole life in a lot of ways.
15:51I wonder, do you remember the moment you first realized
15:53that people were kind of looking to you to lead, and how did it feel?
15:57How did that responsibility feel for you?
15:59Well, one thing I learned as a child, looking back, you know, realizing certain things.
16:05I remember in fourth grade, I think I was secretary of the bicycle committee,
16:10but everybody was always pushing me to lead.
16:12I remember in sixth grade, they were all pushing me to lead.
16:18The kids were, followers choose leaders.
16:22Leaders don't choose followers.
16:24And these kids, you know, my teammates, my schoolmates, always pushed me.
16:30I wasn't president of the school.
16:33I didn't run.
16:33You have to run to get voted on.
16:36But in everyday life, like in the morning at 8.30, there would be a bell,
16:41and we'd run to the fence and choose teams.
16:44Well, I was either number one or two with Jerry Cromwell.
16:46We always won the race.
16:47And so we were the captains, and we would choose teams.
16:50And the main thing I remember, I didn't choose the top kids all the time.
16:54I would choose the worst kids sometimes first, or in the middle.
16:57And he or she were so, especially this one little guy, he was so happy that I would choose him
17:03because he was always last.
17:05And that is horrible for them.
17:06So I kept mixing it up because we're all going to choose everybody anyway.
17:11So don't do the worst one last.
17:13That's horrible for this child.
17:15You know, just put yourself in his shoes.
17:17I would hate that.
17:18So sometimes I'd choose him first.
17:20And this one little guy, he was so happy.
17:23And everybody was saying, why did you get him?
17:25He's the worst player.
17:26I said, because we're going to be divided anyway, totally.
17:29Does it matter, really?
17:30I said, does it?
17:32And they went, yeah, I guess it doesn't.
17:35So I think you have to think about inclusion, which I did.
17:40And my brother and I are really the anti-bully, too, in the neighborhood.
17:44Like if anybody was, like my brother was the same way at school.
17:47If somebody was getting picked on, my brother would go over and say,
17:51you touch one hair on their head, you've got to deal with me.
17:54They never touch them again.
17:57But you've got to understand what people are, like, try to understand what others are feeling
18:01and not about yourself all the time.
18:03But I don't know.
18:04I enjoyed it.
18:06It's nerve-wracking.
18:07It's hard.
18:09Lose sleep.
18:10Like when we really wanted to change tennis.
18:12That was hard times.
18:14I still want to, though.
18:17Nothing changes.
18:17Job's not done.
18:18No, because as a child I had a vision for what I wanted for our sport.
18:21I wanted inclusion.
18:23I don't like all white.
18:24Like they've gone back to all white.
18:25I don't like that.
18:27I love team.
18:28I grew up in basketball, volleyball, everything but individual.
18:35So maybe that's why I lead.
18:37I'm more of a team person.
18:40But I think you have to, how do you make them the best they can be, really?
18:44Like as a captain for the cup, how can I make these players, what do I do or not do,
18:54sometimes not doing anything, to make them the best they can be today and for the future?
18:59Like when they leave here, too.
19:02And that constantly was, you know, and then be observant with them and their families.
19:06Just be observant.
19:07Just watch.
19:08And then when I would ask a question, I'd always listen to what they said.
19:14But their body language spoke much louder than what they were saying.
19:19Much louder.
19:20So I'm really big on reading body language.
19:23I'd say it's 95% of what they really mean.
19:27The 5% is what they're saying, but what are they feeling and meaning?
19:30And it's the body language you watch.
19:33Love that.
19:34Just to finish off, I mean, tennis has been an anchor and a joy in your life.
19:39And I know that team competition is so important to you.
19:42What's the biggest thing you've learned through this sport and in particular through the team
19:46element of the sport, which is quite rare, but obviously a real privilege when you got
19:51to be part of it?
19:52The great thing about singles, if you're just thinking singles, but I like doubles and
19:56mix better, is that you're on your own.
19:59There's no substitutions.
20:00This is it, it's like duke it out, like boxing, one-on-one, and you know you're it.
20:08You've got to prevail, you've got to finish, and take full responsibility.
20:14That's it.
20:15And you know when you're on a team, you'll come off and say, God, I blew that for the team.
20:19In singles, you know, you either won or you lost, and that's it, bing and a bing, right?
20:27Yeah.
20:27And so it teaches you to have strength and resilience just on your own, but then when you
20:32play the team, then you have to, I would shift, you know, internally in how I approach it.
20:39Now it's not just about me.
20:40Now it's about us.
20:41And we have to do the best we can.
20:43My job is to take care of each and every one.
20:46And the way pressures of privilege and champions have just happened, it was in 2000, I think,
20:53and I was the captain, and we were playing against Spain.
20:57And Lindsay Davenport, who's hilarious, really articulate, she's a great announcer now,
21:04and she's the captain of the American team.
21:07She's 6'3", and I'm about 5'4".
21:11Well, 5'5", maybe, 5'5".
21:12And she comes over to me, and I'm sitting on the bench, and it's right before she's going
21:17to play a Rancha Sanchez Vicario, who drives her crazy, okay?
21:21She loses to her, she's a tough one for her.
21:24She comes over to me, and she looks down at me, and she goes, help!
21:28And I stand up, and of course, I'm still looking like this.
21:32I go, yes, what, whoa, whoa, help me!
21:34I've got to play a Rancha.
21:35You know how I hate playing her.
21:36I go, pressures are privileged, and champions are just.
21:43She goes, oh, I really like that.
21:45Okay, great!
21:48I said, what did I just do?
21:50I like those things.
21:50She loved them.
21:52So that's how I got pressures are privileged.
21:54It was that moment in time.
21:55I had to come up with something for it.
21:57Lindsay, how can I help her?
21:58This is major.
21:59And Rancha did have her number in a lot of ways.
22:02I mean, and she ended up beating her in the Olympics in 96.
22:06I mean, so Lindsay was so happy.
22:11And now she's the captain of the U.S. team.
22:13She says, man, this is tough.
22:15She called me and says, what do I do?
22:18This is really rough.
22:20I said, yeah, welcome.
22:21And, of course, she doesn't remember when she was a player.
22:26She does remember now.
22:27She says, oh, my God, I must have been so tough on you.
22:30She says, that's so funny now.
22:32And now she's got children.
22:33Her son, Jagger, is totally into tennis.
22:37He's playing junior, I mean, he's into it.
22:39She says, can you believe I've got a kid that loves tennis?
22:41Because she comes from, her mother was volleyball, and they were into swimming.
22:45You know why she stayed in tennis as a kid, five, six years old?
22:48And this is so important, everyone, to keep people in tennis.
22:53I said, well, why did you stay in tennis?
22:55She says, oh, my friends were at the club, the tennis club.
22:58My friends.
23:00Relationships are everything.
23:02I'm telling you, it's the friendships, it's depth.
23:05And then when you're on the team, every time I see Mary Jo or Monica or Lindsay or all these kids,
23:12or Venus or Serena, all these players that played, and there's others.
23:16There's Shaughnessy.
23:17I mean, I've got a lot of others.
23:19Fernandez, I mean, tons.
23:21And there's a bond there that you can never break.
23:26That's brilliant.
23:27I think we're going to finish it there.
23:28Thank you so much.
23:28You think you can get what you need?
23:29Yeah, thank you so much.
23:30You just got me going.
23:31I got more.
23:32That was brilliant.
23:33Such an incredible story.
23:34Thank you.
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