Shashi Tharoor: सिर्फ 13 मिनट में शशि थरूर ने उधेड़ दी पाकिस्तान की बखिया

Asianet News Hindi

शशि थरूर ने साफ कह दिया है कि भारत अब पाकिस्तान के साथ रिश्ते सुधारने के लिए पहला कदम नहीं बढ़ाएगा। बार-बार धोखे और विश्वासघात के कारण भारत का धैर्य जवाब दे चुका है। थरूर ने पाकिस्तान से कहा है कि उसे अपनी जमीन से चल रहे आतंकी नेटवर्क को पूरी तरह खत्म करना होगा और आतंकवादी कैंप बंद करने में कोई उदासीनता नहीं दिखानी चाहिए। उन्होंने 2008 के मुंबई हमलों का जिक्र करते हुए कहा कि भारत के पास पाकिस्तान की संलिप्तता के पुख्ता सबूत हैं, लेकिन उस पर कोई कारगर कार्रवाई नहीं हुई। भारत ने हमलों के बाद संयम दिखाया, लेकिन बार-बार की उकसावे की वजह से सर्जिकल स्ट्राइक और ऑपरेशन सिंदूर जैसे कदम उठाने पड़े। थरूर ने यह भी कहा कि सीमा पर शांति और सुकून हमारे राष्ट्रीय हित के लिए आवश्यक है और वहां दोस्ती संभव है, जैसा अमेरिका-वियतनाम और फ्रांस-जर्मनी के बीच हुआ। अब बारी पाकिस्तान की है कि वह अपनी नीयत साबित करे और आतंकवाद के खिलाफ ठोस कदम उठाए। #IndiaPakistanRelations, #ShashiTharoor, #PakistanTerrorism, #MumbaiAttacks, #IndiaFirstMove, #TerrorCamps, #IndoPakPeace, #Diplomacy, #SurgicalStrike, #OperationSindhur, #SouthAsiaTerror, #PakistanRole, #TrustIssues, #TerrorismCrackdown, #ForeignPolicy, #TharoorBook, #PeaceTalks, #KashmirConflict, #IndoPakTension, #PoliticalRelations, #SecurityConcerns, #Terrorism, #PakistanAccountability, #ConflictResolution, #NationalSecurity #national   To get the latest news, subscribe to our channel-  Log In Website- https://hindi.asianetnews.com/   Follow Us On Twitter-https://twitter.com/AsianetNewsHN  Follow Us On Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/asianetnews_hindi  Follow Us On Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/AsianetnewsHindi/  Follow Us On Telegram- https://t.me/AsianetnewsHindi                                        Follow Us On Kooapp-https://www.kooapp.com/profile/asianetnewshindi

Transcript

00:00थ mans उस्ता घेलिंगात कैना पाकिस्ताना है पहलें वसक Siis करीष है पहले है ऐस्ताना थ np.

00:09कि पाकिस्ता के पुल यह शल को नाय च्री कि अाम आओ था थापी एस प्रस्टान police है और्राम्यार

00:18and the horrors of it and the 166 deaths on our soil of our own citizens of all faiths I might add

00:27was a chilling reminder of what Pakistan was capable of wreaking on our soil and then of course

00:37our government took the very mature and responsible decision not to retaliate to find instead

00:46method combining diplomatic pressure with with the support of allies around the world and allies

00:57is the wrong word but partners around the world are well well disposed countries with great influence

01:03in Pakistan around the world to bring Pakistan to heal we compiled an extensive dossier we caught

01:08one of the terrorists alive and not only our intelligence but intelligence agencies from the

01:14western world even recorded the chilling voice of that handler in Pakistan giving minute by minute

01:20instructions to the killers in Mumbai all that evidence copiously collected handed over to the

01:25Pakistanis and to this day no one has been prosecuted let alone punished by the Pakistanis for their

01:33participation there in this in this horrendous crime even the Americans managed to convict two

01:39conspirators one of whom has now been extradited to us but Pakistan has not Pakistan of course exists

01:49only because of the pernicious two-nation theory disproved as many essays in this book have pointed

01:54out by the very birth of Bangladesh in 1971 M.J. Akbar's essay is eloquent on that subject and as General

02:02Kapoor's essay observes cast themselves as the defenders of Jammu and Kashmir which as recently as this year

02:08the so-called field marshal has described as Pakistan's jugular vein these well-worn justifications

02:16have enabled the army to tighten its grip on power by portraying India as an existential threat and

02:24this is where it became increasingly clear to me that there was something about the makeup of the

02:29Pakistani state that made the the candlelight at Wagga flicker out rather than positively in my own

02:40heart and that is the realization that to paraphrase Voltaire on Prussia that whereas in India the state

02:47has an army in Pakistan the army has a state and that because there is no army in the world in any country

02:54in the world that commands a larger share of their country's GDP or national defense the national

03:03budget not just the defense budget the overall government budget no army in the world controls

03:08as much as Pakistan does the army's vested interest in maintaining its dominance is colossal as has been

03:15pointed out in Ayesha Siddiqua's famous book you don't join the army in Pakistan to defend the country you join

03:21the army in Pakistan to run the country and you're there even after retirement in a wide variety of

03:27businesses import-export petrol stations real estate you name it universities think tanks academic

03:35institutions to be in the army is to be in a position of privilege I remember an Indian friend in the days of

03:41good relations with Pakistan visiting there and his host happened to be somebody with an army background

03:49um or his brother had an army background I've forgotten the details and his friend recounted how

03:55they went to a tourist site with an enormously long queue and this friend of his was not even in uniform

04:00just walked up to the head and said I'm from the army two tickets please right now and that was it

04:04off they went in uh bypassing an hour long queue and that's simply the way the country is it wouldn't

04:10work here it does there and so we have to confront the fact that every initiate Indian initiated effort at peace

04:19from Nehru's pact with Liaka Talik Khan in 1950 to Vajpayee's bus journey to Lahore in 1999

04:26Modi's Lahore outreach uh in in um in 20 December 2015 when he went I mean it was an amazing story which

04:36I'm sure all of you are very familiar with of how he was uh reminded by his foreign secretary when the

04:42delegation visiting Kabul was all sitting in their cars about to head to the airport that he had to call

04:47Navas Sharif to wish him on his birthday and so Modi makes the call and Navas Sharif says to him

04:53uh listen you know I'm on the way to Delhi why did you stop and celebrate with me it's also my

04:59granddaughter's wedding and Modi in an impulsive moment says yes at a time as I think DCA Raghavan

05:05knows well that the high commissioner in Islamabad didn't even have time to get to the

05:10airport to receive his prime minister and off goes the the prime minister of India to Lahore uh an

05:17amazingly spontaneous gesture very wonderful day of bonhomie and affection and exchange of gifts and so

05:23on and three weeks later what do we get we get a terrorist attack on Pothankot and our prime minister

05:29so disbelieving that this could be possible that he calls Navas Sharif and invites Pakistan to participate

05:35in the investigation into that terrorist attack still assuming a level of good faith

05:40and to the horror of the Indian intelligence community the Pakistan intelligence sends people

05:45to look at an Indian airbase firsthand and then they go back to Pakistan and now and so the Indians did it

05:50to themselves that I think was the last straw that was the sense of betrayal there was so colossal uh the

05:58the the the the the old intent uh articulated by a Pakistani general to bleed India to death by a

06:06thousand cuts uh was clearly manifest and and uh and though indeed as as one of our speakers today I've

06:13forgotten which one so forgive me uh pointed out there were uh fleeting signs of progress and gestures such

06:20as the 2021 ceasefire was it you Amitabu pointed that out at a time when we had awkward relations with

06:27China um uh and and they they renewed their commitment to the 2003 ceasefire which had been

06:34actually uh perhaps the best one uh we'd had for quite some time um even though they did that in 2021

06:42a change of personnel at the top of the army is all it took uh for Pelgam to happen in April

06:49on April 22 2025 uh and so at the end of the day um I don't think India had very much choice in

06:59how to react about all this uh in my book Pax Indica which was published in 2012 I had warned that if there

07:06was ever another Mumbai another attack of comparable impact with clear evidence of Pakistani complicity

07:12that uh the restraint we had shown in 2008 uh might be impossible and all bets would be off and

07:19indeed that's exactly what happened I I didn't feel that any democratic government least of all India

07:25with all the record of betrayals by Pakistan one after the other uh could sit idle while a neighbor

07:32assaults its uh civilians and innocent holiday makers with impunity and that's why that that warning

07:39uh found its response in operations in Durham some of you may be aware that a couple of days

07:45after Pelgam I wrote an op-ed in the Indian Express advocating precisely uh this hit hit the headline

07:52they gave it was a good headline was hit hard but hit smart that is hit hard because kinetic response

07:57was unavoidable uh we simply could not afford to turn the other cheek they would we cannot let them

08:03believe they can do this with impunity at the same time uh don't forget that development is

08:09is our is our larger goal we can't afford this to be seen as the first salvo in a protracted war

08:14therefore hit smart precise calibrated targeted attacks and you can imagine my my satisfaction and

08:20semi-disbelief that I didn't realize that anybody in Delhi would be reading my op-ed I did exactly that

08:26and Operation Sindhu a few weeks later uh followed which is why I was such an enthusiastic supporter of

08:32it it followed exactly the course of action I had advised in my op-ed just after Pelgam

08:37so to my mind with Balakot of 2019 and now Operation Sindhu India has sent a very clear and

08:47unambiguous message that we would not hesitate to go to war if terrorism is unleashed in our soil in

08:53this manner um and I think the fact that we battered their defenses as much as we did uh with the 11

08:59air bases being struck uh the the the significant demolition of facilities there was a command and control

09:06center they were so badly damaged that subsequently it has been dismantled as as uh

09:11commercially available satellite pictures have demonstrated um and the the devastating effect of

09:18the Brahmos was demonstrated as well um I think that um I think that we are we've now sent an

09:24unambiguous message now I take the point of those who said today on stage that surely we don't believe

09:31this is going to end terrorism from Pakistan of course we don't um the facility we've destroyed

09:36can all be rebuilt within six to nine months and probably will be uh but the intent uh may have

09:43been shaken a little bit and certainly the the the the successful strikes of the the ninth uh the night

09:51of 9th 10th may and the um the ability of india to intercept the attempted pakistani response when

10:01they sent missiles to delhi on the morning of the 10th I think was what contributed undoubtedly and not

10:08mr trump uh to the uh call by the pakistani dgmo to his indian counterpart asking for peace yes general

10:17munir or field marshal munir has been rattling the nuclear saber thereafter uh he has already

10:22announced in washington that he if pakistan were attacked they would take half the world with them

10:28um I I I am not particularly inclined to to uh worry too much about this kind of bravado

10:37um and I think as major general mehta uh put it aptly in the first chapter of this book uh it's

10:44merely one more confirmation that india pakistan relations are all snakes and no ladders

10:48uh which which I think is a is an apt way of putting it um and yet as a former un official and

10:56this is where the the sort of money shankaraya advice comes back to me I know it's not enough to

11:02simply uh give up uh trying it's it's never wise of course to indulge in hypotheticals but pragmatism

11:10does demand that we ask how do we navigate this terrain how do we create even a narrow opening

11:18for for for for something of a serious thought even if we were to go back to the sort of the brief

11:23periods of tranquility we've had uh 2003 to 7 but earlier there were other windows uh when we had pretty

11:31pretty decent relations um with pakistan uh i would even say the ziya years up to up to his

11:38assassination weren't that bad uh in terms of our relations we were playing cricket with each other

11:44regularly we were visiting each other uh and so on and so forth um what I would congratulate

11:50surendra kumar for is that this book does succeed in asking that question of the contributors and it brings

11:56various perspectives together on what can and must be done uh to move the relationship forward if

12:02at all possible and I should stress that India has never said we are not open to normalizing relations

12:09with pakistan we have merely said that given the record of pakistani behavior the onus is on them

12:16they're the ones who have to take the first steps to show some sincerity about dismantling the

12:21terror infrastructure on their lands why can't they be serious about shutting down these terror

12:27camps everyone knows where they are the un's committee has a list of 52 names of individuals

12:34organizations and places in pakistan it's not that pakistan doesn't know they exist nor their sponsors

12:41shut them down arrest some of these characters show some serious intent and I think India will be

12:46only too happy to reciprocate but in the absence of anything other than words how do we

12:51take those words seriously when those words have been betrayed time and time again and when

12:56even sincere voices I mean I have no doubt that the zadari government was sincere about peace when they

13:02were in power before 2008 and right up to November 26 2008 they were sincere but the fact is they are

13:09then either unable or unwilling to prevent the malign men who may order these terrorists to come from

13:16getting away with it so unless some gestures are made from there I have to say that that that

13:24words alone are not going to be enough from pakistan

13:36you

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