- 5 months ago
This episode of News Today focusses on Mumbai as heavy rainfall brings the city to a standstill. A monorail train, reportedly overloaded, experienced a technical snag amidst the downpour, leaving hundreds of passengers stranded for hours.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching News Today at 9pm. I'm Preeti Chaudhary. Our top focus comes in from Mumbai, Maximum City on its knees as we speak.
00:08There is a monorail which is stuck, viewers, because it's been incessantly raining and actually now cranes are being used to rescue passengers on board that monorail.
00:19Getting you the latest on that. Why is Mumbai sinking?
00:24Also, later on in the show, Trump and Zelensky meet. What next? We're going to break it down right here.
00:30But first time, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:36Kamil versus Telugu clash for Vice President opposition.
00:40Vice President pick Jant Sudarshan Reddy versus NDA pick CP Radhakrishnan.
00:45TDP and YSRCP reconfirm their support for Radhakrishnan.
00:55Mumbai rain fury brings monorail to a halt due to technical snags.
00:59Hundreds of passengers stranded.
01:01Dramatic rescue ops by fire department using crane.
01:09Mumbai gets 300mm rain in one single day.
01:13Devendra Fadnavis warns next two days critical.
01:16Rain-battered city battles deluge.
01:21Two Asian giants in dialogue.
01:24China Foreign Minister Wongi meets Prime Minister Modi.
01:28Prime Minister highlights peace along border as key for bilateral relations.
01:36After expert deletes post on Maharashtra voters citing data error amidst vote Chori Rao.
01:42EPS alleges DMK uses empty ambulances to disrupt AIDMK rallies.
01:53Threatens driver.
01:55TN Health Minister called EPS behavior in decent defense ambulance service.
01:59Government approves online gaming bill to regulate digital gaming.
02:07Sources say bill to ban money-based gaming transactions and ads for real money gain.
02:15Oracle lays off 10% of Indian staff after Trump meet and open AI deal.
02:21Company says its focus is changed to AI investment.
02:23And India's squad for Asia Cup is finalized.
02:36Shubman Gill named vice-captain while Jaiswal and Washington Sundar miss out.
02:42India to take on Pakistan on September 14th.
02:44All right, viewers, let's quickly cut across and get you the latest that is coming in from Mumbai
03:00where a monorail was stuck in Mumbai's eastern suburban area due to a technical snag and rainfall.
03:07Passengers were stuck inside, still being rescued, rather speak, using cranes.
03:11The Mumbai monorail service between Chambur and Bhakti Park came to a halt at about 6.15pm.
03:18Many say it was due to passenger overload.
03:20Passengers immediately contacted the BMC helpline number for emergency assistance.
03:25The Mumbai Fire Brigade rushed to the scenes and initiated rescue operations with the help of three snorkel vehicles.
03:33It is a 20-kilometer route from Chambur to Sankt Gadaj Maharaj Chowk.
03:38Monorail is functional since 2014 and it was constructed to improve public transport in Mumbai.
03:46Scenes of panic and chaos were witnessed inside the monorail as there was a power outage
03:53and many passengers felt claustrophobic with the air conditioning being switched off and absolutely no lights.
03:59The coaches were completely packed to the gills for hours.
04:03But what you see on your television screen is a rescue operation.
04:06The Deputy Chief Minister of Maharashtra, Mr. Rekanath Shinde, joins us on the phone line right now.
04:12Shinde Saab, what is the latest?
04:14Now, first of all, tell us, what have you rescued all passengers?
04:17You rescued all passengers?
04:19There is almost a passenger.
04:24Now, the rescue operation will be somewhat more used.
04:29And the first priority is to rescue passengers, give them medical aid and reach them to their home.
04:39This is why I have mentioned the Municipal Commissioner and the MMRD people that I have talked about.
04:47And the whole team went to rescue for them.
04:51And the rescue also has been on war footing.
04:54And now people are still alive.
04:58And because of the rain, the harbour line is closed, these people are traveling all over the monorail.
05:10And because of the capacity, people are traveling all over the monorail.
05:17This is a giant car that I have given them.
05:22And because of that, the power broke down.
05:25And because of the emergency, the emergency break also changed.
05:33And because of the monorail.
05:34And this is a giant car that doesn't happen again.
05:37This is why we will do this.
05:39But the first priority is to leave the people out of the way.
05:46So you are saying that this incident is the main reason of overloading.
05:52So no one has checked because all the coaches were full.
05:56These three coaches were above 1.500 people.
05:58At least we have told this.
06:00Yes, of course. Metro and Mono.
06:05The capacity is different. Metro is less than 50 percent.
06:10And because of the war crowding, this has become a monobund.
06:18This is my knowledge of this.
06:21But the first priority is to leave the people out of the way.
06:28That is the only thing about the government.
06:31And this is the same.
06:33It will be different.
06:35That is the whole problem.
06:37We will not need to leave the government.
06:42Since the rain is very low,
06:46the next two days will be high alert.
06:48In Mumbai city, particularly a such a chance.
06:51There will be something you do.
06:54should be possible it was possible.
06:56You are saying right all.
06:58It is the top priority of the government.
07:00But, when the city falls in Maha Sidhya in Mumbai,
07:04the whole city falls out.
07:06Every monsoon, it takes us to bring this,
07:10does not change anything?
07:12What is it?
07:14It has, you told me,
07:16The intensity of the rain was very high.
07:28Therefore, the rain was less than a time.
07:35Therefore, the low line area is waterlogging.
07:40But BMC, the pumping station is completely activated and the system is on alert mode.
07:57We are all in our own.
08:04We don't have any burden of knowledge,
08:07and we don't have any burden of life.
08:12And we also have a precaution.
08:15The priority is also given.
08:17So the NDRF team, the rescue team, the disaster management team, the police,
08:22we are all in our own.
08:28I have seen this system in my own hands.
08:31So the NDRF team, the NDRF team,
08:36we are all in our own.
08:41I have also talked about a person named Pravin.
08:45I have also said that we don't panic.
08:48We are all in our own rescue team.
08:54We are all in our own support.
08:56We have to keep the NDRF team.
08:58We have to keep the NDRF team.
09:00We don't want to keep the NDRF team.
09:02We will be able to keep the NDRF team.
09:04We will keep the NDRF team.
09:06So, let me start and say about the NDRF team.
09:10Now, I'm going to ask a question about the NDRF team.
09:14I'll ask you about the NDRF team.
09:16I'll ask you all the questions.
09:17I'm going to ask you for your questions.
09:18Also, I'll ask you to ask me,
09:20because all the NDRF team is going to be a number of the NDRF team.
09:22So, I'm going to ask you for the NDRF team.
09:24You will be outta there.
09:25So, I'll ask you to ask that we have to be able to go for a long term.
09:27This is a good question.
09:28Well, because this is a lot of unusual to the NDRF team.
09:29I'm asking you,
09:30I'm asking you for the NDRF team.
09:32I would like to take a look at all the lines, all the low-lying areas are flooded.
09:36Do you have any solution to this, sir?
09:40When I was the Chief Minister, I would like to take a look at the clean drive,
09:56I would like to take a look at myself and monitor myself.
10:02In the last two years, I would like to take a look at myself.
10:05And we see that this is our system.
10:09This system is the old system.
10:11Now, the abadi has increased.
10:14There are also many constructions.
10:19These are all coastal roads in Mumbai.
10:23There are also high-tide and low-tide areas.
10:28That's why we have also built a building pond.
10:34We have also activated our STP system.
10:36We have also worked on that.
10:38I think there will be a long-term solution to this.
10:44I have also talked to the municipal commissioner and their expert team.
10:50But last few years, this system is still running.
10:55We can have increased.
10:57It can have increased capacity too.
10:59This is also a long-term solution.
11:01But, Shindi, I will say one question.
11:05I will ask you one question, because BMC has not been done until now and the body of BMC has not been done yet.
11:13How much is it that it is not going to be done properly? Because it is not going to be done properly.
11:19I have seen this system and I am very satisfied that every place BMC had been done.
11:31There was a whole team, the team was ready, the rescue team, the NDRF, the disaster management, the fire brigade, all of them.
11:41It is not going to be done properly, because we want to know that there is no need to be done properly.
11:54That is why BMC was completely on an alert mode.
11:59I have seen it myself, I have seen it myself.
12:02I am not talking about other people, but I have seen it myself.
12:07That is why we will develop this system.
12:11This is also happening with the Commissioner.
12:14Chindi, thank you very much for joining us.
12:17You have the Deputy Chief Minister who is promising that it is going to be a different Mumbai next time, next monsoon.
12:22Will it be a promise that we have heard way too many times and which actually drains through with the water of the previous monsoon?
12:29We will only know in time.
12:31But we continue to get you the latest rescue operations are still on where the monorail that has been stuck near Chambur.
12:38Joining me from there is my colleague Dipesh.
12:41Dipesh, what is the latest that you can tell us?
12:43Divesh, go ahead.
12:46Well, Priti, the rescue operations are still on.
12:53You can see four skylifts.
12:55Four skylifts have been brought in by the Mumbai Fire Brigade and these are being used to rescue the passengers who are still stuck.
13:03And let me tell you, there are still high number of, large number of passengers who are still stuck inside this monorail train.
13:12This train which lost power due to, as it was heavily crowded, it lost power, it is suspected that it lost power due to overcrowding at around 6.15 PM.
13:24And since then, this train was stuck, the windows were closed, the doors were shut and many people felt suffocation inside, they felt restless inside, they felt nauseating inside.
13:37And after that, around an hour or so after that, when emergency numbers were contacted, the fire brigade rescue officials were sent, they brought in skylifts.
13:48And these skylifts, you can see, you can see over here, some passengers are now being brought down from the monorail train.
13:57These are the passengers, you can see, the time right now is around 9.15 PM and these passengers were stuck since 6.15 PM in this monorail train.
14:09So, it's been around three hours that these passengers were stuck inside the monorail train and this is not happening for the first time.
14:18Let me tell you, around eight to nine years ago, a similar incident happened where a monorail train was stuck and fire brigade had to be called in to rescue passengers.
14:29Similar condition, skylifts were used, cranes were used to rescue the passengers who were stuck.
14:36And now, today, again, today, there's another reason, yes, Mumbai has been battered by rain, there's been around 400 mm of rainfall in Mumbai city in the past 36 hours.
14:48That is why, the harbour line, the central line, the western line, the lifeline of Mumbai, railway trains were affected, railway trains were not working,
14:57vehicular traffic was affected, people, then monotrails were running.
15:02So, monotrails was an option that people saw which they could use to commute for the 20-kilometre stretch between Chembur and Bhakti Park, between Chembur and St. Ghadge Maharaj Chok.
15:12So, a large number of people went into the monorail station, they got inside the train, but due to overcrowding, as it is suspected that it could be a reason, the power was lost and people were stuck inside.
15:28They are still stuck inside, they are still being rescued.
15:31Before we move on, one quick question. Everyone, at least till now, has been evacuated safely? Is anyone hurt?
15:38See, there have been people who have been, we spoke to some of the survivors, and they have complained that they were feeling restless, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were in suffocation, they were, because see, the doors are completely shut, the windows are completely shut, there is no ventilation inside the train.
15:59So, till that time, the doors were opened by the fire brigade, and there is, there were a large number of people inside, and that is why people felt suffocation inside, and they were, they were breathless.
16:12Many of the people complained of breathlessness, when they were brought in, their doctors were brought in over here, at the spot, who helped them first, who gave them first aid, restricted them, and then took them to the ambulance.
16:25Right.
16:26Some of them also have been taken to the hospital, many of them are normal now, after being rescued, they are normal, but they did complain of restlessness, breathlessness.
16:34All right, primarily viewers, that was, okay, Divesh, appreciate you joining us there. My colleague, Divesh Singh, reporting from ground, one of the main reasons, most passengers felt a sense of claustrophobia, because there was a power outage, power shut down, the air conditioning stopped working in the coaches, and these were packed coaches, with over 150 passengers packed in very close proximity, and therefore many of them complained of nausea, breathlessness, primarily due to claustrophobia.
17:01Thank you, Divesh, for joining us. But viewers, it doesn't quite limit itself where the monsoon fury in Mumbai is concerned to the visuals that you just saw.
17:09Mumbai, India's financial capital, was on its knees on Tuesday. The city's local train services in many sectors were suspended for nearly seven hours, schools, colleges were already shut, many flights diverted.
17:20Here are some of the images that will give you a basic picture of what unfolded in India's financial capital.
17:27Several cows seen completely submerged in the Wasai area of Palghar district near Mumbai.
17:33The images on your screen are from Madhubani Smart City, which turned into a lake after heavy rainfall.
17:39In Thane district, a car got into an underpass after it was flooded. People inside the car can be seen struggling to come out.
17:55In fact, one of them climbed on top of the car to ensure his safety.
18:00Mumbai's lifeline, the local trains, were also delayed after intense rainfall. About 15 inches of water was reported on the railway tracks.
18:16This drastically slowed down the speed of maximum city in some sections. The service was cancelled for hours together.
18:23These images on your screen are from Kurla, which is located right in the heart of Mumbai.
18:34People were seen walking into flooded waters till there was thousands of people taking this route daily to travel to Bandra Kurla complex for work,
18:42where Tesla's brand new showroom is also located, viewers.
18:46According to the BMC, over 1,600 crore litres of water was pumped in four days at various pumping stations.
18:57The Municipal Corporation has deployed 540 lifting pumps to lift rainwater in low-lying areas.
19:04More than 300 mm of rain was recorded in the last 24 hours alone.
19:09All right, so viewers, the big questions that we are asking this evening.
19:23Why is Mumbai sinking year after year?
19:26We see exactly the same visuals coming in from the maximum city.
19:31Maximum chaos during maximum monsoon.
19:34Is the city badly in need of an infrastructural upgrade?
19:37This is a jaded question, which will actually go into the cliches of questions when it comes down to in the books of Mumbai in the midst of monsoons.
19:47How to make Mumbai monsoon-proof?
19:49Once again, discussed many a times before and back on.
19:55Shruti Narayan, Managing Director, Regions and Mayoral Engagement.
19:59The 40 cities joining us in a short while.
20:01Sudhir Badami, civil and infrastructural engineer, will be with us as well.
20:04Shruti, you know, this is a debate.
20:07I would reckon every monsoon is debated across TV channels and in drawing rooms where Mumbai is concerned,
20:15by the hapless Mumbai citizen who's caught in the melee of this monsoon.
20:20Why is the city sinking again, Shruti?
20:24So, Preeti, I think, as outlined earlier by even the Honourable Deputy Chief Minister,
20:30that, you know, we are seeing a complete departure from predicted averages and what has been, you know, patterns.
20:39And now, almost all over the world, we are seeing intensity of rainfall becoming shorter and more intense,
20:49which obviously is taking a toll on the city infrastructure that wasn't designed for this level of rainfall, right?
20:56So, I think the reason is that. It's very clear.
20:59And also, obviously, there is the reason of how quick the city is in responding to some of these things
21:05and the ability of the city to kind of take, absorb the water and put it out.
21:10And I think it's important to understand that we need some really quick measures that are, you know, working, obviously, on responses,
21:18like as, you know, the, you know, was highlighted that how the BMC played a very critical role in the emergency response,
21:27which is very important, right?
21:28But there also needs to be a bit of a systemic planning of the city as it's growing,
21:33which accounts for us making sure that we are able to balance the blue-green infrastructure.
21:39We are looking at the surface of the city, right?
21:44The ability of the city to percolate water and, you know, take it down.
21:49But also looking at how we are building new infrastructure and rebuilding the existing one that is falling apart.
21:57Because this is going to be leading to economic and health losses.
22:01And if we calculate that, right, it's actually we can spend that money in the first case in really, you know,
22:08making sure that the city is ready and climate resilient.
22:12And I think the time now is that the governance cannot be separate from climate, right?
22:17Every rupee that the city spends needs to be looked at from a lens of climate.
22:23Shruti, the sheer fact that today you've had the Chief Minister of Maharashtra announced that
22:29Mumbai's current strong water drainage system is capable to handle rainfall just up to 45 mm per hour.
22:37That highlights how outdated the infrastructural system actually is to cope with the exigencies that you just spoke of.
22:44Yeah, no, absolutely.
22:47Because, you know, we are in the midst of a climate breakdown, right?
22:50And I think we need to know that.
22:52So we around the world are experiencing climate disasters that we haven't planned for or we cannot predict, you know.
23:00And the infrastructure, what was it designed for?
23:03It's actually completely deviating from what we are seeing today.
23:07So that does need a bit of an overhaul in terms of planning for a resilient city that is able to absorb these kind of climate disasters as we are progressing.
23:18We need to look at it from two perspectives, right?
23:21How we address these disasters and how we are future proofing the city for other things to come, right?
23:27So how can we be more proactive in our urban planning, in our, you know, every sectoral aspect that we consider for a city to function and ensuring that we're addressing, you know, the impacts of climate.
23:40Shruti, the sheer fact that Mumbai received 550 mm of rainfall in just about 75 hours is what we are being told, which I reckon is just about 10 mm short of what it receives in the entire month of August,
23:55underlines what you're talking about on what we are witnessing world over.
23:59But having said that, there are larger questions that need to be asked of the BMC.
24:04Is the BMC really equipped to deal with the situation on hand, not having elections of the BMC, you know, till now, somewhere down the line?
24:12Has that led to laxity?
24:16So, Priti, I think the fact that BMC was there and was able to respond to this relatively quickly reflects that the city is ready.
24:26And I think we should credit them for that, right?
24:28The fact that they have, you know, they immediately responded to the monorail being struck and they were able to mobilize the emergency services in a coordinated fashion to save lives is a very, very important, you know, aspect of the city being ready.
24:43And I think, of course, the city could do more, but I think that the response that Mumbai and BMC is sort of, you know, responding with is quite good.
24:54And I think they need to look at it and as, you know, the minister highlighted that there is going to be an effort in strengthening some of these response systems
25:03and the ability of BMC to become more future-proof, ready for climate is a critical one.
25:10All right, Priti, appreciate you taking the time out and joining us. Thank you there.
25:13Thank you, Priti.
25:14All right, Priti, we're going to shift focus right now from Maharashtra, Mumbai, to a debate which is going to ensue over the next couple of days.
25:23It might have a foregone conclusion where the election is concerned because the numbers seemingly lie with the NDA if something untoward doesn't quite happen.
25:31But it's going to be an interesting election altogether. I'm talking about the vice president's election.
25:37It's Tamil Nadu versus Telangana in the high-stakes vice presidential race.
25:41The NDA feels seasoned politician, CP Radha Krishnan, while the opposition counters with former Supreme Court judge B. Sudarshan Reddy.
25:49It's not just a battle for the chair. It's numbers. It's a narrative. It's alliances. All on the board.
25:56It is a war of a Telugu face versus a Tamil one in the vice presidential race. But this battle is more than just geography.
26:09Even as Prime Minister Modi called for consensus urging the opposition to back NDA's CP Radha Krishnan, the India bloc made its move.
26:18Fielding Justice Sudarshan Reddy, a former Supreme Court judge, now the face of a political challenge.
26:25The opposition parties have nominated Sri B. Sudarshan Reddygaru as their joint candidate since he reflects fully and values that saved our country's freedom movement.
26:45India today broke the news first and it was later confirmed by Congress Chief Malik Arjun Khadge who called the vice presidential election an ideological battle.
26:55This vice presidential contest is an ideological battle and all the opposition party agreed on this. That's why we are contesting unitedly.
27:13Justice Reddy speaking exclusively to India today made a bold appeal to all parties including the NDA to back him.
27:22India alliance almost represents more than 60% of the population. Notwithstanding their numbers in both the houses. So I consider myself as a candidate representing more than 60% of India's population.
27:47Sources say the opposition's pick is no confidence. In fact it is a well thought out gambit. A direct message to Andhra based NDA allies, TDP, Jansena, even YSRCP and BRS.
28:01Why? Because the NDA's choice of Radhakrishnan from Tamil Nadu threw the DMK into a dilemma of its own on backing a Tamil face.
28:10But TDP remained unswayed asserting it will back the NDA pick.
28:16In the last 10 years in the NDA government, whichever development has happened, it has happened across the nation. It's not North India, South India, East or West. So that's how we look at it and that's how we want our development to happen at the same time representation to also happen.
28:29Vice RCP echoed the same sentiment, vowing supporting for the NDA candidate.
28:36After discussing with our senior leaders, our party patient has taken a decision. Now since the election is inevitable, we will be supporting the NDA candidate.
28:46The countdown to the vice-presidential face-off for September 9th has begun.
28:52Bureau Report, India Today.
28:58Alright viewers, while clearly the numbers lie with the NDA, the optics of it will make for an interesting watch.
29:04Tomorrow is when the NDA files nomination for their vice-presidential candidate.
29:1021st is when the opposition parties will file nominations for their vice-presidential candidate.
29:17The elections on the 9th of September.
29:19Alright, with that let's move on to some international developments which could very well have a direct bearing back home in India.
29:25US President Donald Trump met Ukrainian President Zelensky and other European leaders on Monday.
29:32The meeting followed Trump's talks with Russian President Putin last week.
29:37Trump claimed that Putin has agreed to a face-to-face meeting with Zelensky.
29:41Here's more on the meeting that has made global headlines.
29:44The last seven months the world has been learning the art of dealing with Donald Trump.
29:59The mercurial American president who often brags about his ability to strike deals.
30:05The results were there to show on Monday.
30:08Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky turned up wearing a coat.
30:15A far cry from his February attire that upset the White House.
30:20Zelensky, you look fabulous in that suit.
30:23I said the same thing.
30:24You look good.
30:25I said the same thing.
30:26I said the one that attacked you last time.
30:29I remember that.
30:30I apologize to you.
30:32You look wonderful.
30:33No, my first question for you, President Zelensky.
30:35You look in the same suit.
30:37You see, I changed you.
30:40Maybe yours is better as well.
30:46Zelensky started by thanking Trump for his peace efforts
30:49and the U.S. First Lady for her letter to Vladimir Putin
30:53before handing over a letter from his wife, Olena Zelenska, to Melania Trump.
30:59My wife, First Lady of Ukraine, she gave the letter.
31:04It's not to you, to your wife.
31:06Oh, I was.
31:07I was.
31:08Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:09So we're saying this is a sensitive topic, yeah.
31:12Yeah, please.
31:13After the one-on-one between the two presidents, European leaders themselves wary of the impression
31:22Putin has had on Trump drooped in, showing solidarity with Ukraine.
31:26German Chancellor Friedrich Merz insisted on a ceasefire, a sore point with Trump,
31:35who is now of the view that peace talks can happen while the war is on.
31:39The other leaders, however, stepped in to salvage the situation.
31:47They sought security guarantees.
31:49While Trump has offered U.S. help, he hasn't specified anything.
31:53I think that the European nations are going to take a lot of the burden.
31:59We're going to help them, and we're going to make it very secure.
32:03We also need to discuss the possible exchanges of territory,
32:07taking into consideration the current line of contact.
32:10That means the war zone, the war lines that are pretty obvious, very sad, actually, to look at them.
32:18In the middle of the negotiations, Trump updated Putin on the developments over a phone call.
32:28After the White House talks in a social media post,
32:31Trump announced arrangements have begun for a meeting between President Putin and President Zelensky.
32:37This would be followed by a trilateral that would include the U.S. president.
32:42We don't have any day. We just conformed after this productive meeting with the President,
32:49and then with all our colleagues, partners, we conformed that we are ready for a trilateral meeting.
32:55And if Russia proposed to the President of the United States bilateral,
33:01and then we will see the result of bilateral, and then it can be trilateral.
33:07So I said, always so, Ukraine will never stop on the way to peace,
33:12and we are ready for any kind of formats, but on the level of leaders.
33:16Also on the cards is a defense deal, which would see Ukraine buy American arms worth $90 billion.
33:26The big question, however, remains, the territorial concessions Ukraine may have to make for lasting peace with Russia.
33:34Bureau Report, India Today.
33:41Well, what's the fallout of all that you saw and the implications for back home in India?
33:45We're going to try and address that in the next 15 to 20 minutes for the questions that we're asking.
33:49Can President Trump bring peace to Ukraine? Advantage Putin in the peace talks?
33:54Because remember, viewers, you had the President of America go into these talks suggesting very clearly that it was Putin that won the war.
34:01Will Ukraine have to cede territory, something that was also clearly indicated?
34:06Has war left Europe weakened?
34:09I want to cut across to our guest this evening.
34:11Peter Taylor, Director, Institute of Development Studies, Brighton, UK, joins us.
34:16Meera Shankar, former Indian Ambassador to the United States of America.
34:21Raymond Wickery, Senior Associate Chair on India and Emerging Asia Economic Center for Strategic and International Studies, Washington, D.C., U.S.
34:33Well, I'd like to begin this debate with Mr. Taylor.
34:39Mr. Taylor, the sheer fact, even though the Alaska summit didn't quite come to anything in terms of a takeaway,
34:46but the back-to-back meetings that we're witnessing right now in the White House with Mr. Zelensky, then you have the European leaders.
34:54Do we at least see a narrowing in of the conflict and maybe some resolution soon?
35:01Well, thanks for having me on.
35:03It's great to see momentum towards achieving peace.
35:06I think that's very important, and it's good to see as well leadership from the United States.
35:11Of course, that's not surprising, given that achieving peace in the Ukraine was one of President Trump's campaign promises.
35:17So it's, of course, proved much harder to achieve than he anticipated, and we're still not there.
35:22But it's really important now to keep focus and attention on moving forward, because there is momentum.
35:28We could see a very different tone in the meetings yesterday compared to the previous meeting
35:34when President Zelensky had that famous encounter in the Oval Office.
35:39And I think we saw yesterday a completely different approach, a very coordinated approach.
35:44Strong support, of course, from the presence of the European Union and this coalition of the willing,
35:50which is now 31 countries from the European Union and British Commonwealth countries.
35:55And so we can see that level of support and the real push towards achieving peace.
35:59But the journey is still on. There's still a lot of detail still to understand about what would be the actual conditions,
36:07as you said, issues around land and what kinds of reparations would be involved are still to be debated.
36:13But of course, we hope very much, you know, strong public support, both in the UK and across Europe,
36:20for a resolution and to see real positive progress towards that.
36:24You know, the next path to it, to any movement ahead, Mr. Taylor would possibly be with what Mr. Trump's next objective is,
36:32to hold not a bilateral, but a trilateral.
36:34While you've had Zelensky quickly agree to it, Moscow has been very noncommittal on it.
36:39Would you reckon that is important for any breakthrough?
36:43Yes, I think there are a number of things which are going to be important.
36:46As we've heard, especially from the representatives of the European Union and from President Zelensky,
36:51a ceasefire is an absolute priority because that really is needed very urgently to stop the rates of casualties and deaths.
37:01Even yesterday, while the talks were taking place, there were attacks taking place which led to people dying in Ukraine.
37:08And clearly, that's a that's a major first step which needs to be secured.
37:11So I think that's something that I'm sure everyone is going to really push for.
37:16In the question of the meeting, I think the question is, again, going to come to really what is the level of detail about what the agreements may be.
37:25It may well be that we'll see some might call lower level or mid level meetings now quite rapidly taking place.
37:32I think there's probably going to have to be more detail about what the nature of an agreement would be,
37:38as well as really putting into place the question of what will provide security in terms of any agreement,
37:46because that is a big question at the moment.
37:48I think the level of trust in President Putin's words is very limited.
37:54And I think there's a real suspicion that even though agreement may be made verbally or even in writing,
38:01that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be kept.
38:03So there's a lot of conditions which have to be first laid out and that will then start to bring higher level people together
38:10and potentially representatives of the countries of Putin and Zelensky and then ultimately Trump as well.
38:18But I think that's going to really depend on a real advance in the level of detail about what the discussion is going to be about achieving peace.
38:27Meera Shankar, would you like to reflect on how India is looking at this?
38:30Because only yesterday you had the Russian President, Mr. Putin, speak to our Prime Minister, brief him on the discussions that he had with the US.
38:38And all of this is happening and taking place in the backdrop of India facing a lot of heat on tariffs with purchases of Russian oil.
38:47How would you think India would be looking at what's going on right now?
38:51India would be seeing this as a constructive step towards a peace process.
38:57And we've been advocating that for some time, right from the beginning, actually,
39:03saying that a solution will not be found on the battlefield and will have to be sought at the negotiating table.
39:10So it's a constructive first step in a peace process.
39:15Some progress has been made.
39:17I think from Putin's side, it means that Russia's isolation to some extent is over.
39:26It's political isolation because he visited the United States in Alaska, was given a kind of ceremonial welcome.
39:35So Russia and Putin have come out of the cold, if you will.
39:41Secondly, I think President Trump has made it clear that he is not insisting on a ceasefire, which Putin has been rejecting, and that peace talks can continue till a peace settlement is reached.
39:59So that's a significant gain from the Russian point of view.
40:05The Europeans don't like this, but I think they may have to lump it, because otherwise the talks won't proceed.
40:13I mean, Putin feels he is gaining on the ground, and therefore I think the sooner that these talks proceed, the sooner the fighting might come to an end.
40:28Thirdly, I think there are still issues, big issues, which remain to be sorted out.
40:35And I would say the two main ones would be, you know, the question of loss of territory for Ukraine and security guarantees for Ukraine.
40:49Now that the European leaders have asked, right?
40:51Well, it's not the European leaders.
40:53It will have to be part of any agreement because Ukraine will want security guarantees.
40:59And Russia, of course, has said that its legitimate security interests must be addressed.
41:06And this has been accepted.
41:08And that includes no NATO membership for Ukraine.
41:12That has been the principal demand of the Russian side.
41:16And the second, as Putin says, is, you know, restoration of a fair balance of security in the European sphere and in the world.
41:30So this is quoting Putin and what he said.
41:35And finally, I suppose, withdrawal of sanctions and reestablishment of normal relations.
41:43So I think the big issues really will be not the ceasefire or whether talks will continue, but more the question of what territory will Ukraine be prepared to concede?
41:58And what will be the minimum territory that Russia will be prepared to accept by way of a deal?
42:06I think there's considerable ground to be covered there.
42:10And what security guarantees for Ukraine will ensure Ukraine security, but also be acceptable to Russia?
42:21So I think these are the two big questions which remain to be addressed, but it's a very positive first step.
42:28And as far as Indian purchases of oil are concerned, I just want to mention two facts which are important.
42:35Firstly, China is the biggest importer of oil from Russia, imported $10 billion more than India did in 2024.
42:45Secondly, the European Union imported $67 billion worth of goods from Russia last year, more than India did.
42:55So India is being singled out.
42:59That hypocrisy has been very clear, Ms. Shankar.
43:02You're right.
43:03The hypocrisy has been very clear.
43:04Even though, you know, you've had Peter Navarro urge India to stop buying Russian crude oil.
43:07It's very, very clear.
43:08But, you know, just stay with me.
43:10I just want to bring in Mr. Vickery into this conversation.
43:12And taking off from what Ms. Shankar said, Mr. Vickery, there is no ceasefire just yet.
43:17Talks will have to take place even as this war is on.
43:21Now, Trump has approached the talks with the view that Putin has clearly won the war.
43:24He's agreed with Putin and given insistence of a ceasefire first, which God knows when will happen.
43:30So far, Putin appears to be calling the shots here.
43:34Would you agree, sir?
43:37Well, thanks very much for having me.
43:39I'm afraid that your analysis is spot on and correct.
43:43You know, peace, like war, must be waged.
43:46And what it requires is one, a strategy and two, allies to be able to carry out that strategy.
43:54Unfortunately, President Trump has shown neither.
43:58The meeting in Alaska was a victory for Putin and Russia because he was treated as an equal.
44:08There was no mention of his transgression of the UN charter.
44:15The values stated there of non-aggression, non-imperialism.
44:19And he came away able to say what his view was.
44:26And Trump largely adopted that in regard to a ceasefire.
44:32The meeting which was held yesterday had really no outcome that includes the United States and pushes forward.
44:45But what it did bring about was some sort of coalescence of a coalition of the willing, namely European nations, including Ukraine, realizing that they're going to, one, need to keep U.S. involved for arms.
45:05But on the other hand, knowing that they have to stand on their own two feet and be reliant on themselves.
45:15It is good that at least people are talking peace.
45:18I have to give President Trump that credit.
45:23But we have not made progress.
45:25It is now time for others, great democracies, I think, including India, the European democracies, Japan, South Korea, Australia, to apply some sort of pressure in regard to Putin.
45:48Otherwise, he's going to continue on the path that he's on, and that is one of aggression and just waiting out Trump and the United States until he has controlled this territory, which was his goal all along.
46:09You know, Mr. Taylor, German Chancellor yesterday had said, and allow me to quote him, that this is not just about the territory of Ukraine, it's about political order of Europe.
46:18It's completely clear that the whole of Europe should participate.
46:22Somewhere down the line, sir, does this suggest Europe is preparing for a deeper, more collective role in shaping any settlement, if at all?
46:31I think European countries are genuinely concerned about this, as the former speaker has just highlighted.
46:41For example, if Putin was to acquire more territory in Ukraine, that brings his front line closer to many other European countries.
46:50And there are many, many countries in Europe where there's a genuine fear of an ever nearer expansionist and aggressive presence of Russia on Europe's borders.
47:03And I think this is a real push for many European countries to think back to World War Two, that the relative peace has been enjoyed since then.
47:13And there's a real sense that there is a danger for many European countries, as well as, of course, providing support and solidarity with Ukraine.
47:23I think one of the things which has been absolutely imperative is to have Ukraine at the negotiating table.
47:29And I think this vision, as again, we heard from the previous speaker of seeing President Trump welcome Vladimir Putin with the red carpet rollout treatment in Alaska as a very odd sense of elevating Russia's presence in this whole negotiation.
47:48And I think that importance of having Ukraine central to the negotiations with European support as solidarity as a country which borders and is a neighbour and a close ally of other European countries.
48:01You know, Ms. Shankar, you spoke about ceding territory. How much will Ukraine, you know, be able to cede?
48:08But as for the Ukrainian constitution, any change to Ukraine's territory would have to be settled by a referendum in Ukraine.
48:15So does this somewhere make territorial concessions to Russia, politically, at least in Ukraine, impossible?
48:22I think I won't use words like impossible at this stage, because then you already look at an impasse, you know, very quickly.
48:34Yes, there's a huge gulf between the positions of the two principals and their supporters.
48:41And that gulf may or may not be bridged.
48:46But at this at this stage, I won't rule it out.
48:50I think President Trump, if you recall, has basically said that Ukraine will have to give up Crimea and that there will be de jure recognition of Crimea as Russian territory on the other four provinces.
49:09I think the Russian position is that they want Ukraine to withdraw from the four provinces and for those provinces to be also recognized as de jure.
49:22And Ukraine's position is that it's not prepared to cede any territory at this stage, including Crimea.
49:29So there's a big gulf to be bridged, but that's what the whole, that's what the peace process will be about.
49:36It is all about.
49:37Right.
49:38Mr. Vikri, you know, to bring you back in.
49:39Now, Trump says a bilateral meeting between Putin and Zelensky will take place first, which can later become a trilateral.
49:46All this looks quite far away, at least right now, even though President Trump wants it within the next couple of weeks.
49:54It looks implausible, at least as of now.
50:00Well, unfortunately, President Trump has a real estate developer's mentality.
50:05And that is, if you get the principals in the room, you have a meeting and you resolve whatever the contract question is.
50:14That's not the way international relations work.
50:17That's not the way in which you wage peace.
50:20Already, Moscow and the Foreign Minister Lavrov have thrown cold water on this idea of having a Zelensky-Putin meeting.
50:32Indeed, it may come about, but it's all a part of the strategy, which is perfectly apparent from anybody who looks at what Putin is doing.
50:45It's simply to delay in hopes that there will be a battlefield breakthrough and that he'll be able to control Ukraine.
50:53Right.
50:54You know, Lavrov wore a sweatshirt in Alaska, which had the letters USSR in Cyrillic on it.
51:04And that's an indication of what the strategy is.
51:09It's to put back together the empire, which was first a Russian empire and then inherited by the USSR, which, of course, includes Ukraine, but includes a number of other East European nations.
51:23So it's time for great democracies like India and, as I say, Europe and others to look at what can be done to restore the principles and values upon which international peace has been largely kept since World War II.
51:43And that is non-aggression, non-imperialism and being able to go forward with a respect for human rights and the rule of law.
51:52One quick question, Mr. Vickery, before we close this debate.
51:55Now, European leaders, you know, have sought security guarantees for Ukraine very similar to what I believe is Article 5 of the NATO Treaty,
52:03which would clearly mean any attack on Ukraine will invite retaliation from NATO countries.
52:08Today, you have the President of America clarifying in an interview that it can't be NATO.
52:14Trump has added that U.S. troops won't be stationed in Ukraine.
52:18Has he once again thrown Europe under the bus somewhere?
52:25Well, I think that what he's shown is that he has no respect for NATO or Europe.
52:32He really doesn't have any respect for anybody except himself and his own aggrandizement.
52:39So under the bus would be a metaphor.
52:45But I think that what's going on here is that the European nations and, you know, India is very much involved in trade and in the exchange of people back and forth, that there are ties with Europe, with the UK.
53:07And so all of the world has a stake here.
53:12Unfortunately, this approach of Donald Trump, that he's the great man, he's the great real estate developer, he goes in and makes a deal, just does not work.
53:24And it's not going to work in this situation either, I fear.
53:27Okay.
53:28But it's much better to be doing talk-talk than war-war, particularly when you have nuclear-armed countries involved.
53:38Fair point.
53:39So we're going to leave it at that.
53:40I appreciate all our three guests for joining us this evening.
53:42It's something that we would be discussing in days to come.
53:45We'd love to have you back again.
53:46But with that, we've reached the end of the show.
53:49Thank you all for joining us.
53:50We'll see you tomorrow, but we do leave you with a Get Real India story.
53:54And this comes in from Bihar, due for elections in the next month and a half.
53:58In Bihar's Katihar district, a bridge built to connect thousands to vital services now stands completely useless for most of the year.
54:07Submerged roads, stranded villagers.
54:09A 3.68 crore lifeline has become a symbol of neglect.
54:13We'll tell you more in our next Get Real India report.
54:17And we leave you with this report, something to think of.
54:21Have a good night ahead.
54:22This bridge in Bihar, inaugurated in 2019, connects Kodha region to Kathea district headquarters.
54:46Built under the Pradhan Mantri Gram Sadakyojana at a cost of 3.68 crore rupees, it was built as a godsend to the three villages of Devkali, Pekaha and Mushhari Dalitola.
55:11But the bridge which was meant to be lifeline has become a showpiece for the villagers.
55:26For most part of the year, during floods and rains, the bridge is completely useless.
55:41The reason is simple.
55:43The approach roads on both sides were built so low that they remained submerged for weeks.
55:48The point of the bridge was built as a pool of both sides has become a focus on the both sides.
55:58The point of the bridge is that the water comes every year.
56:03Around 5,000 people who live in the villages are dependent on the boats to travel to Kathayar.
56:20The villagers say they take life-threatening risks just to meet their basic needs.
56:33The bridge today stands tall as a symbol of careless planning and bureaucratic indifference.
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