- 3 months ago
Dr. Zakir Naik Debates with an American Atheist
In this gripping intellectual exchange, Dr. Zakir Naik engages an American atheist in a debate on God’s existence, morality, and the purpose of life. Using logical reasoning, scientific evidence, and scriptural references, Dr. Zakir addresses the atheist’s challenges and dismantles misconceptions about religion. The discussion is fast-paced, thought-provoking, and packed with powerful arguments that invite viewers to reflect deeply on faith, reason, and the search for ultimate truth.
In this gripping intellectual exchange, Dr. Zakir Naik engages an American atheist in a debate on God’s existence, morality, and the purpose of life. Using logical reasoning, scientific evidence, and scriptural references, Dr. Zakir addresses the atheist’s challenges and dismantles misconceptions about religion. The discussion is fast-paced, thought-provoking, and packed with powerful arguments that invite viewers to reflect deeply on faith, reason, and the search for ultimate truth.
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LearningTranscript
00:01Hello, Dr. Zakir Naik. My name is Harris. I'm from Phoenix, Arizona in the United States.
00:07I'm an entrepreneur and a marketing manager.
00:10Two of my friends in America have converted watching YouTube videos of you.
00:17One of them a Christian, one of them an atheist.
00:20One of my friends presented me with how to deal with an atheist DVD of yours, which I did watch.
00:29But that didn't answer my question.
00:31And I've asked this question to a lot of people with no satisfactory answers.
00:35A lot of intelligent people.
00:37Of all the scholars that I've ever watched on YouTube, in my opinion,
00:41you are the most rational, logical, easy to understand kind of scholar that I've ever come across in my life.
00:51And it is really important that this question is answered because I've never had a satisfactory answer for this question.
00:57My question is like a coin with two sides.
01:00The first side of it is this.
01:02And this is the question.
01:03I'm somewhere between an atheist and agnostic.
01:05I'm not sure where.
01:06God has created this entire universe.
01:10And the Quran speaks a lot about how it has taken so many days and mountains and this and that.
01:16And life is going to be a test and whatnot.
01:18My question is, way before God decided to create this entire universe, before He decided to put human beings,
01:28before He decided to send Prophet Muhammad or Adam and Eve, way before He even planned about doing any of this,
01:35He knew the end result of it.
01:38He knows, in the end, He will be disappointed by certain people and He will throw them in hell fire.
01:45He knows they will be burning.
01:47He knows they will be tortured and that is when they will be repenting for what they've done.
01:52Way before He created the entire universe, He knows the outcome is going to be bad.
01:58It may be good for certain people who are in heaven, but He knows that He can save those people from being in hell.
02:04Way before He even decided to go ahead with the creation.
02:07Yet, He decides to go ahead with it, with all His Godly logic.
02:12Why would He want to do that?
02:14The question, if I can just put it in this manner, how can God be so sadistic that He would actually go ahead with a plan,
02:21which He knows is going to end up in that manner?
02:23That's the first side of the coin.
02:24The second side of the coin is, for some reason, if I believe that, okay, God is almighty and He understands everything is great, God is great.
02:32Why is God insisting in the Quran that, look at the mountains, look at the protons, the electrons, this and that, everything is so synchronized, how amazing I am.
02:42Why is He forcing us to find His creation amazing when it is a piece of cake for God?
02:47I mean, He just had to say, Kun, and it was done.
02:50Then why is it a big deal if God has made this entire universe which is so amazing?
02:54Because for God, it's nothing.
02:56So, I should not be really amazed at His creation.
02:58He can do much more than this.
03:00So, I do not understand why He wants us to respect what He has done or find it amazing what He has done.
03:05The brother asked a very good question and a very intellectual question.
03:10It's a very good question.
03:12And he has seen some of my tapes on YouTube even of atheism.
03:17And this question that is troubling him, he hasn't got the answer to.
03:21The brother asked the question that almighty God knows everything.
03:26Before He created the heaven and the earth, before He created a human being, even if one person goes to hell, he could have avoided that.
03:35I mean, he could avoid being disappointed.
03:36Of course.
03:37I'll reply.
03:38The brother said, even if one person goes to hell, it is as though God would be disappointed.
03:45Now, coming to your question, I started a school.
03:49I started a school.
03:51And you may have heard, Islamic International School.
03:55If a teacher takes an examination, if she is just, while she is giving the examination, she writes in the maths paper, 2 plus 2 is equal to how much?
04:07The student in front of her or him, the teacher, writes 5.
04:13She can very well tell the student, change 5 to 4.
04:18Would it be just on the teacher, during the test and examination, to correct the student who is writing a wrong answer?
04:27Right. But if she has an option that the student doesn't need to do any of that and still just go out and get the student because she doesn't have to.
04:30No, no, no. I'm asking a simple question.
04:32I'm asking a simple question.
04:34The teacher has given the question paper.
04:36Right.
04:37All the students were informed about it.
04:38In that circumstance, you're right.
04:39For that particular situation, it's fine.
04:40For that particular situation, the teacher can tell.
04:43Dear student, change 5 to 4.
04:45What will the other students think about?
04:48Unjust.
04:49Correct.
04:50But God can be just at the same time.
04:51He can create a completely different condition.
04:53He doesn't have to go ahead with that situation.
04:55He's not bound by any situation.
04:56Brother is saying, Almighty God can create something which is perfect and will not make mistake correct.
05:01Right.
05:02That God has already done.
05:03He created the angels.
05:04Right.
05:05God created the angels.
05:07The angels never go against any commandment of God.
05:10But human being is a better creation than angel.
05:13The angels have got no free will of their own.
05:15If you have heard my tapes, if you have not heard, I'll tell you now.
05:18The angels are a creation of Almighty God, but not the best creation.
05:22Almighty God created the human beings.
05:25The human beings have a free will to go against God or to follow God.
05:29If you have chosen to be a human being, if you disobey His commandments, you go to hell.
05:34If you obey His commandments, you're superior than the angel.
05:37Because the angel doesn't have a free will of his own.
05:41Then he follows God.
05:42It's nothing great.
05:43The human beings are the better creation of Almighty God.
05:47Almighty God has given a free will.
05:49That's a different question that Almighty God knows.
05:52Because He has Ilme Geyb.
05:54He has knowledge of the future.
05:56He is more superior.
05:57So He has created such a creation which has a free will.
06:01The fault is of human being, not God.
06:04No, but God has created us with that fault.
06:06And He knows He can avoid that.
06:08Not fault.
06:09Not fault.
06:10It's not fault, brother.
06:11It is free will.
06:12Why has He given us a free will when He knows He's going to eventually put these many people in hell?
06:15Why is He doing something?
06:17That is a different creation.
06:19Would you want to create something which can think on its own?
06:22Or would you want to…
06:23Why would someone so compassionate be…
06:24Brothers, that's what I tell you.
06:26What you want, God has already created an angel.
06:29I'm asking you, which is better?
06:31An angel following Almighty God or a human being following Almighty God?
06:34Which is better?
06:35For me, absolutely.
06:36If I get a second chance, I would want to be an angel.
06:38Why would I risk going to hell?
06:39Second chance, correct.
06:40Correct.
06:41That's why Almighty God says in Surah Araf, chapter number 7, verse number 172.
06:46Almighty God brought all the human beings from the loin of Adam and asked them, is there one God?
06:52All agreed.
06:53Almighty God says in Surah Hasar, chapter 59, verse number 21.
06:57If Almighty God revealed the Quran on the mountain, the mountain would shudder down.
07:03Almighty God says in Surah Araf, chapter 33, verse number 72.
07:06Okay.
07:07It is the human beings who were fools who said we want to be human beings.
07:10You and I.
07:11You and I were fools.
07:12Now you cannot backtrack.
07:14Once you said you want to appear for the test.
07:17Once you read the test paper.
07:18Nobody asked me.
07:19They asked Adam and Eve.
07:21No, brother.
07:22Quran says every human being was asked.
07:25And then it is washed off.
07:27This memory is washed off.
07:28If the memory awaits the test, Almighty God says in the Quran, do you want to be a human being?
07:34If you become a human being, you can become superior to an angel or can get inferior.
07:39If you don't want to become a human being, just pass.
07:42Even for argument's sake, even in that condition.
07:45Please let me complete.
07:46You ask the question.
07:47All right, go ahead.
07:48If you interject, I will answer.
07:49Sure, go ahead.
07:50So Almighty God asked the human beings and the Quran says we human beings were fools.
07:56You and I both were fools who opted for the test.
08:01Now once you undergo a test, if you follow the commandment after free will, you'll be superior to an angel.
08:07If you disobey Allah, you become inferior to an angel.
08:11We wanted to pass with distinction.
08:14You and I.
08:15You and I.
08:16You told, I don't remember.
08:18Of course you will not remember.
08:20And even I don't remember.
08:21But I believe in the Quran.
08:23On the Day of Judgment, Almighty God says not a single human being will object to the justice of Allah.
08:29That will come to know.
08:30That will come to know on the Day of Judgment.
08:32Only thing we'll say, please give us one more chance.
08:34Almighty God will say it's too late.
08:36Because if he wants to give you a new chance, then I'll have to come back in the world again.
08:40Again everyone.
08:42So those who failed, he can't get only the failures.
08:46So the Quran says no one will ever object on the justice of Allah.
08:51They will request Allah give us one more chance.
08:53Almighty God is too late.
08:55Almighty God gives us chances in this world itself.
08:58You make a mistake, Allah gives you a chance to repent.
09:01You repent.
09:02Allah forgives you.
09:03Again you make a mistake.
09:04Once you die, it's only one.
09:06So as far as the first question is concerned, why did God create?
09:10Because it's a better creation.
09:12Any logical person, including you, has to agree that a person who has the free will is a better creation than a person who has no free will.
09:20Only a question you don't remember is perfectly right.
09:23When you die, when you're resurrected, that time you and I will meet.
09:27Then you will say I remember.
09:29Even I don't remember now.
09:30But I have faith in the Quran that Quran cannot be wrong because scientifically, if you heard my lecture,
09:3780% of the Quran is 100% matching with science.
09:4120% is ambiguous.
09:43Neither right, neither wrong.
09:44So my logic says when 80% is 100% correct and not even 0.1% of the 20% is wrong,
09:51so my logic says even this 20% would be right.
09:54I'm a scientific person.
09:55I'm a logical person.
09:56So I believe in the statement of the Quran that we chose,
09:59if we wouldn't have chosen, you could have questioned God.
10:03Why did you make me a human being?
10:05Then God would have been at fault.
10:08But God says in the Quran, He asked, the mountains were afraid.
10:13Everything else were afraid.
10:14We human beings opted for this.
10:17But do you remember being asked?
10:19I don't remember being asked.
10:20Brother, if you heard my answer, even I don't remember.
10:24But if you remember, where is the test?
10:27Imagine if a teacher teaches you something.
10:30Teacher teaches you something.
10:32Teacher gives you the book.
10:34The teacher has to take away the book for the test.
10:36If the teacher says, okay, take the book and answer.
10:39Where is the test?
10:40After the examination is over, you can go home and check or not.
10:46But even before the exam began, God knows.
10:48Brother, listen to me.
10:50After the examination is over, can you go and check home or not in the textbook?
10:54Absolutely.
10:55But during the examination, can you check?
10:57No.
10:58So now the examination is going on, brother.
11:00Once it's over, you can check.
11:02If you tell teacher, teacher, I want to see the textbook, I don't remember.
11:07No.
11:08During the examination, you cannot refer to the textbook.
11:11It will be called cheating.
11:13Correct?
11:14So once the examination is over, if you don't remember, you tell God, what is this illogical?
11:21But Quran says not a single human being will object to the justice.
11:26Let the test get over.
11:27So today, I being a scientific person, I being a logical person,
11:31based on my knowledge of science, based on my logic,
11:35when I read the other scriptures, and when I read the Quran,
11:38I find Quran is the only book, only religious scripture on the face of the earth,
11:43which passes this test.
11:44So therefore, I, being a scientific person, being a logical person,
11:49I agree, okay, fine.
11:50This statement of the Quran also has to be right.
11:52I don't remember.
11:53That is the test.
11:54If I remember, where is the test?
11:56So that answers the first part of the question.
11:59First part, that saying that God was sadist.
12:04God is not sadist.
12:06For example, I start a medical college.
12:09I want the school students to go to medical.
12:12How many students who go to school, enter the medical college?
12:15Just roughly, can you guess?
12:17Few.
12:18Surely less than 5%.
12:20Less than maybe 1%.
12:22So, why did you make a college where only one person can enter?
12:27Fine.
12:28It is for selected few.
12:29Same way God made heaven.
12:31Jannah.
12:32Jannah.
12:33Jannah te firdaus.
12:34Everyone cannot go to Jannah te firdaus.
12:37Why not?
12:38Sorry?
12:39Why not?
12:40Why can't everyone go to medical college?
12:42Because it's human capacity.
12:44If humans were capable of being able to put everyone to medical college, they would.
12:48That's the way we are made.
12:49The same way everyone cannot become a doctor.
12:53Only those who have the capacity.
12:55Same way everyone cannot go to Jannah te firdaus.
12:58The high levels of paradise.
12:59We have to strive.
13:00God has given you capacity.
13:02If you don't follow His guidance, you cannot.
13:04If you follow His guidance, to go to Jannah is very easy.
13:07If you are intelligent, it's very easy.
13:11If you are intelligent.
13:13And if you are truthful to yourself.
13:15But if you are not truthful to yourself, even a non-intelligent man can go to Jannah.
13:20Only thing you should be truthful.
13:22God has given you different options.
13:25How to follow Him.
13:27Some people think they are smart.
13:30I tell them they are extra smart.
13:33If they were smart, they would see it as crystal clear.
13:36In black and white.
13:38That this is the word of God.
13:39You have to follow it.
13:41That's the reason Francis Bacon said.
13:44Little knowledge of science makes you an atheist.
13:47In-depth knowledge of science makes you a believer in God.
13:51So I wouldn't say God is sadist.
13:54I said we were fools.
13:56Who opted to undergo the test.
13:58Not God.
14:00God gave you an option.
14:02What do you want to be?
14:04We chose.
14:05So we are responsible.
14:06Not God.
14:07God is not a sadist.
14:08We are fools.
14:09That's what the Quran says.
14:11On the day of judgment, you will come to know.
14:13In-sha-Allah.
14:14You and I both.
14:15In-sha-Allah.
14:16If I go to Jannah.
14:17In-sha-Allah.
14:18In-sha-Allah.
14:19I'll pray to God.
14:20I'll thank God.
14:21You know, I was a good person.
14:22I choose to be a human being.
14:23If you pass that.
14:24If you fail.
14:25Then we will curse our own self.
14:27Hope that answers the question.
14:28The second part.
14:29Sorry.
14:30What was the second part?
14:31That even if I believe how almighty he is.
14:33How knowledgeable he is.
14:34Why is he so bent on convincing us.
14:37Look at the mountains.
14:38Look at the electrons.
14:39Look at the protons.
14:40That's right.
14:41The second part of the question was.
14:42That why does almighty God give references of the mountain.
14:46That has created this.
14:48For him it is peanuts.
14:49So why is he talking?
14:51You know why is he saying?
14:52He is saying.
14:53These peanut things.
14:54Mountain.
14:55They would shudder.
14:56You human being who are superior.
14:58Why don't you understand?
14:59Quran says in Surah Hashar chapter 59 verse number 21.
15:03Had the Quran been revealed on the mountain.
15:05The mountain would have fallen down.
15:08To utter ruin.
15:09But to us human beings it makes no difference.
15:11He is giving these examples to show.
15:13That these things which are so powerful.
15:16The mountains etc.
15:17Which has created.
15:18Would have submitted the will.
15:21Why don't you human being do?
15:23He is trying to give an example.
15:24That we are fools.
15:26He is not trying to praise himself.
15:29And whenever he asks us to praise himself.
15:32Or when he says.
15:33We say Allahu Akbar.
15:35God is the greatest.
15:37Do you think.
15:38It will change Allah?
15:40No.
15:41Whether you say a thousand times.
15:43Allahu Akbar.
15:44Or a million times.
15:45He cannot become greater.
15:46He is already the greatest.
15:48The reason we say these things is because.
15:50Because.
15:51It is our human mentality.
15:52Our human nature.
15:53That we follow the people who are famous.
15:56We follow the people who we praise.
15:58For example.
15:59Your mother has a heart attack.
16:01There is unknown person on the street.
16:05Who gives you the treatment.
16:07And.
16:08You heard that the best heart specialist.
16:10In the world is Doctor X.
16:12Now.
16:13Will you follow Doctor X's advice.
16:15Or the person on the street.
16:17Who you don't know.
16:18Doctor X.
16:19Why?
16:20Because Doctor X is famous.
16:21People know him.
16:22He is the best in the world.
16:23So the reason.
16:24In our salah.
16:25In our life.
16:26We say Allahu Akbar.
16:27Allah is the greatest.
16:28Allah is the most wise.
16:30Allah is the most intelligent.
16:31Why?
16:32If we say that.
16:33It doesn't benefit Allah.
16:35It benefits us.
16:37That if we praise him.
16:38We follow him.
16:39If we follow.
16:40We go to Jannah.
16:41To Allah.
16:42It makes no difference.
16:44Therefore Allah says.
16:45Will you not then believe?
16:47Will you not then understand?
16:49That means the Quran.
16:50Is revealed to the people.
16:51For understanding.
16:52So he is giving this example.
16:54Not to make himself.
16:56Great.
16:57He is always the greatest.
16:58Whether you say a million times.
17:00Allah is the greatest.
17:01It will not make a difference to Allah.
17:03He is telling it to you.
17:05Allah says in the Quran.
17:06Allah does not require you.
17:08You require him.
17:09So when we praise him.
17:11It is human psychology.
17:12That the person you praise.
17:14Person you talk great about.
17:16You tend to follow his advice.
17:18By following his advice.
17:19It will benefit you.
17:20It will not benefit him.
17:21He is already the greatest.
17:23He is already the merciful.
17:25So these are rules and regulations laid down.
17:27He is our creator.
17:28He knows our mindset.
17:29You are a student of science.
17:31Correct?
17:32I am also a student of science.
17:33The moment I come to know.
17:35Oh.
17:36Allah mentioned these scientific facts.
17:38Which we came to know today.
17:3950 years back.
17:40It increases my faith in Allah.
17:43Allah says.
17:44In Surah Fusilah chapter 41 verse 53.
17:47Soon we shall show them our signs.
17:54In the further regions of the horizons.
17:56And into their soul.
17:58Until it is clear to them that this is the truth.
18:00So Allah is giving these examples.
18:02So that it benefits us.
18:04For him.
18:05It makes no difference.
18:06It is benefiting us.
18:08So he is giving us a chance.
18:11To follow him.
18:13So that we can go to heaven.
18:15Hope that answers the question brother.
18:16I recognize his power.
18:17And I understand he is amazing.
18:19And all that.
18:20That he has done.
18:21But.
18:22Am I expected to be amazed.
18:23At his achievements.
18:24At creating this universe.
18:25Because for me.
18:26For him.
18:27It's like a one second job.
18:28Correct.
18:29For him.
18:30Which is a one second job.
18:31When he tells you not to have alcohol.
18:33If you realize.
18:34I wouldn't have alcohol.
18:35Sure.
18:36But am I expected to be.
18:37Amazed at his creation.
18:38No.
18:39See the thing is.
18:40That he is not there.
18:41To prove himself better.
18:42If you believe that.
18:43For him it is peanuts.
18:44So will a person lie?
18:45No.
18:46So if you say.
18:47Don't have alcohol.
18:48You will not question him.
18:49No.
18:50Don't have pork.
18:51You will not question him.
18:52Yeah.
18:53But I am not amazed at his creation.
18:54Because for him it's nothing.
18:55Compared to us.
18:56It's amazing.
18:57For him it's nothing.
18:58Right.
18:59Compared to us.
19:00A person who can create the universe.
19:02When he tells me not to have alcohol.
19:05I immediately follow.
19:07Sure.
19:08I don't mind following him.
19:09But do I have to be amazed at his creation.
19:10As is said in the Quran.
19:12See.
19:13As you ask me the question.
19:14Should I be amazed at the creation.
19:16Right.
19:17I would say.
19:18If I believe human being is a better creation.
19:21Then yes I am amazed.
19:23And then I say.
19:24Alhamdulillah.
19:25He has made me better than that.
19:26So if I am amazed.
19:28He made the mountains.
19:29He made the stars.
19:30He made the sun.
19:31Ah.
19:32But he made Zakir Naik also.
19:34He made a human being.
19:36And we are the best of creation.
19:38So he gives these examples.
19:39So that we realize.
19:41What benefit he has given to us.
19:44All the favors he has given to us.
19:46Talking about the sands.
19:47Talking about the protons.
19:48Talking about the mountains.
19:49Finally he says.
19:50Human beings are the best creation.
19:53So in comparison.
19:55We have to agree.
19:56That our creator has created this human body.
19:59The molecules.
20:00The DNA.
20:01The complex thing.
20:02Which can never come by chance.
20:04So in this way.
20:05We are amazed.
20:07At the creation of the human being.
20:10And then.
20:11We submit to him.
20:13If you are not amazed.
20:15Only by being amazed.
20:17We submit.
20:18That he is our creator.
20:19He is worth worshipping.
20:21No one else can do that.
20:23This is.
20:24So that.
20:25We worship him.
20:26And we pass the test.
20:28And we go to paradise.
20:29Hope that answers the question.
20:31If Bill Gates gives me.
20:32A hundred dollars.
20:33Should I be amazed.
20:34That he has given me that money.
20:35I believe that the question.
20:36Has been answered.
20:37And unfortunately.
20:38We are very constricted for time.
20:39You are welcome.
20:40To come back tomorrow.
20:41In sha Allah.
20:42As with all of the brothers.
20:43And sisters.
20:44We have come to the end.
20:45Of tonight's session.
20:46So please.
20:47A very big thank you.
20:48If Bill Gates.
20:50Gives you.
20:51Hundred dollars.
20:52Would I be amazed?
20:53Will you get amazed?
20:54Brother.
20:55The question is.
20:57Why should Bill Gates.
20:58Give you a hundred dollars?
21:05If you tell me.
21:06A Tom, Dick and Harry.
21:08Gives you a hundred dollars.
21:09Nothing to be amazed.
21:10Bill Gates.
21:11Gave me a hundred dollars.
21:13It's.
21:14Something that he gave you.
21:16Why did he give you.
21:17Why not somebody else?
21:18Why?
21:19The question is.
21:20Why did he give you.
21:21Is a question.
21:22Okay.
21:23If some Tom, Dick and Harry.
21:25Gives you.
21:26If a man on the street.
21:27Gave you a hundred dollars.
21:28Bill Gates.
21:29Got it.
21:30Got it.
21:31That's the answer.
21:32Got it.
21:33I got that.
21:34So now you are convinced.
21:35Yes.
21:36Absolutely.
21:37That is the answer.
21:38So inshallah.
21:39I hope.
21:40That will come closer to Islam.
21:41So I should not be amazed.
21:42At the fact.
21:43That he's giving me the money.
21:44I should be amazed.
21:45It's him.
21:46Who's giving the money.
21:47God.
21:48Got it.
21:49So it was worth the time extending.
21:50Alhamdulillah.
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