00:00I wish I would have done that differently.
00:02It's like that. You can't help but look at all the mistakes that you made.
00:13One thing I actually thought about just comparing this movie to Bo is Afraid
00:17is that both Joe and Bo, they're both afraid.
00:21They both have fear as a primary motivator, but they approach them completely differently.
00:25I'm curious if there was a consistency almost that you saw in Ari Aster's sensibilities
00:29and storytelling with these characters.
00:31I didn't at the time, but I think that you're right.
00:35They both do have this fear.
00:38I don't know that Joe really moves towards confronting that fear.
00:43I think in many ways, one of the central things for him is his relationship with his wife
00:49and something that she may have experienced that he doesn't really want to acknowledge.
00:54And it's more about how we create stories or justify our own behavior and actions to make
01:03us feel that we are confronting or addressing these issues that we're not.
01:08And that's so much of what I think maybe many of us experienced at that time.
01:14So I think that's what I was focusing on, I'm sure.
01:17Well, you know, with Joaquin, there's a lot of talking about the script, going over things,
01:22a lot of rehearsal.
01:23And in this case, you know, as I was rewriting the script, I went around New Mexico, went to
01:30different small towns, different counties.
01:34And I interviewed, interviewed, I talked to sheriffs, police chiefs, mayors, public officials.
01:42I went to Pueblos, you know, I was really trying to get as broad a picture of the politics of
01:50New Mexico, but also just, I was trying to find, like, models for certain characters.
01:56And there's one sheriff in particular that I fell in love with, who struck me as a very
02:03interesting model for that character, for Joe Cross, who Joaquin plays.
02:08And Joaquin met him and loved him, and his wardrobe is based on this guy's wardrobe.
02:13He wears the same clothes.
02:15And that guy showed up to set a couple of times, remember, at the crime scene?
02:21And so, you know, so much of it was actually, you know, about just, same with Michael and
02:27Luke, you know, and you guys spent a lot of time with different police officers.
02:31It was just about, like, really being in the place.
02:36And, you know, New Mexico, I grew up there.
02:38It's a place I know really well, and I've wanted to make a movie about New Mexico for
02:42so long.
02:43And so it's important when you're making a film that's regional in that way to really
02:48be there.
02:50I do want to ask about your collaboration with Emma Stone, because this is your second
02:54time working with her after Irrational Man.
02:55But, I mean, Joe clearly loves Louise, but also he's so impulsive, and he acts just so
03:04quickly without thinking.
03:05I'm kind of hoping you can talk about just developing that dynamic, because obviously
03:09she's also falling down this hole.
03:11It was great that I knew Emma, and I've worked with her before, because she was only on set
03:18for a week or so, and we had to, like, really have a kind of a history and a life together.
03:26But it, I think it came, I mean, I think it wasn't as difficult as I had anticipated in
03:34some ways.
03:35Like, how are we going to have this?
03:36But maybe part of it is because, while they are married and they have this history together,
03:42there's also something in which they feel like they are living in different worlds.
03:47I think that's so much of what Joe is going through, and so many of the characters in this
03:53film are going through, in which they are having these relationships with other people,
03:56but they feel as if they are existing in different worlds.
03:59And that's so much the struggle of what they're experiencing.
04:03It's very new for me, because normally you, like, you figure out who someone is, and then
04:07you figure out what you have to do to get there, right?
04:10And you sort of find out the destination, and then the process is the journey of making
04:15sure I can, like, you know, find myself in those circumstances.
04:19And with this one, I feel like we sort of just let it come organically on its own.
04:25I remember the first time I met with Ari, I kept, you know, asking him, like, who is this
04:29guy?
04:29Who is this guy?
04:30And is it this?
04:31Is it this?
04:32And he was sort of like, I don't, you know, I think you said, I don't want to reduce him
04:35too much.
04:36You know, I don't want this to be like a caricature or, you know, some sort of cliche of what
04:42you think this person is right off the bat.
04:44And so the whole movie, I had no clue who I was playing, but I think the guy doesn't
04:50really know who he is either, and it's sort of worked out somehow.
04:52Sure.
04:52For me, I guess with Michael, it was this constant battle of my instincts versus Michael instincts
05:02of a guy, a black guy growing up in New Mexico, and not just in New Mexico, but a very, very
05:08small town in New Mexico.
05:10Because, like, you know, I know, like, black police officers, well, I know a black police
05:16officer, but he's in New York.
05:17And I remember I spoke to Ari about that, and it's just like, New York is a completely, basically
05:22different world compared to, like, a place like this.
05:25And I didn't really understand that until we got to truthful consequences.
05:29I was like, oh, okay, there's no one here.
05:33Now I know what you mean.
05:35Like, and obviously when you land in New York, it's just like, oh, like, you know, a lot
05:40going on.
05:40So it became more evident to me once I got to the location myself.
05:46And then, you know, being in the location enforced all of the other ideas.
05:50You get what I'm trying to say?
05:51It's not regular for someone like that to grow up in a place like that, and actually
05:56understanding what that does to his psyche and what it does to his, you know, how he
06:01interacts with people and what he believes about the world is a very different thing.
06:06I got a call into the office about a disturbance.
06:09Last night, the family was murdered.
06:12Shooters on charitable ground.
06:13This is a Pueblo case.
06:14This is our crime scene.
06:15Get out of here.
06:16And I mean, as far as kind of the most macro perspective on both Joe and the film, at
06:22what point do you allow yourself to almost kind of recognize their flaws and see them
06:27at like, from an objective perspective?
06:30I mean, from the beginning, but I don't know how objective it is.
06:34Because I think in some ways, it's a part of you.
06:40But hopefully, like there are, I certainly understand, like, and we all have some of these,
06:47some of the most like basic fears and most basic desires and wants for our lives.
06:52And it's just like a human experience.
06:54So I think we can identify with him.
06:56And I think, you know, more often than not, we can probably identify with each other more
07:01than we are at odds with each other.
07:04And part of what this film is, is like taking those brief, small part of ourselves that feels
07:10like it's in conflict with somebody else.
07:12And through this like tech industry and this algorithm, that becomes magnified to where
07:19that becomes the most important thing and the dominant factor and pushes us farther away
07:25from understanding how closely related we are and our kind of basic needs are.
07:32And so that's something I think the film really successfully pulls off and why I was so interested
07:37in making the film.
07:38We knew it was going to be divisive, like it's sort of just, it's about polarization,
07:44it's about division.
07:46And I, you know, we tried to pull back as far as we could to have it be about the environment,
07:53right, where kind of everybody is kind of in one way or another missing part of the picture,
07:59right?
08:00Nobody's acting in bad faith.
08:01Nobody is evil in this movie.
08:03They're just all people acting on their own perspective.
08:06Everybody in the movie cares about the world.
08:09Every character cares about the world, knows that something's wrong, has a feeling that
08:13something's wrong, but they, but, but they all just have, they have different pictures of
08:20what that is.
08:22How can we get here?
08:24And even worse, is it worth it?
08:26At the cost of being at war with your neighbors, that's why I'm running for mayor.
08:36Mayor, I didn't see you.
08:39What is your relationship with your own work?
08:41Like, can you go back and watch your previous performances without judgment?
08:45No.
08:47I mean, no.
08:48Without judgment?
08:48No.
08:49No, of course not.
08:51But I, I, I haven't done that because, yeah, there would be a lot of, a lot of judgment in
08:59that.
08:59And that's very difficult.
09:01But imagine like everything in life, like you, I imagine you look back on relationships
09:05that you've had and you like re-examine them like years later and you go like, fuck, I wish
09:10I would have done that differently.
09:13Um, and so it's, it's like that.
09:15You, you can't help but, but look at something like all the mistakes that, that you made.
09:19So there's not a lot of value.
09:21What ifs, the choices.
09:22Yeah.
09:22Sure, sure.
09:23I'm curious just what your, like, what your process is as far as kind of collaborating with
09:28different filmmakers and what you're looking for in those relationships.
09:31I think in some ways it's, it's very simple with the director for me and that I just want
09:37somebody that, it seems obvious, but just has a really unique vision, right?
09:42That they do something that no one else can do, that you can't replicate what they do.
09:48You can try, but it's never going to be the same, right?
09:51And so I think that's kind of the most important thing for me.
09:54Um, and then can they find something in me that, that I haven't explored before, a different
10:00way that I might have an approach to a character and are they going to find, uh, are they going to
10:04be able to challenge me and elicit something from me?
10:08And then will I be able to be around them for three months and like not hate them?
10:15Like sometimes it really just comes down to like, cause you're spending like hours upon
10:20hours with somebody and you're talking about things that are kind of happening in the world,
10:27but in the world of the film and the world at large and your own personal experiences and
10:31things can get heated and intense and, and also humorous and fun.
10:37And so you go through that, like this really intense condensed period, this relationship
10:44with somebody that's like really intense for three months.
10:47Um, and so you're like, I, I want to remain friends with them and I want to bring out the
10:52best in each other while we challenge each other.
10:53So I think those are, those are kind of what I look at.
10:55Yeah, that's what you need for the collaboration.
10:57That's awesome.
10:57That's right.
10:58And also just like, um, just like if they'll have me, like I'm available.
11:02And if they'll have me.
11:04Your pain is not a coincidence.
11:06You are not a coincidence.
11:08We are not a coincidence.
11:09Never the best place.
11:10Never the best place.
11:11Never the best place.
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