Are blind boxes gambling? | The Current State - video Dailymotion

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With the popularity of blind boxes hitting an all-time high, should we take a step back and consider whether or not this constitutes gambling? We spoke to people on the streets as well as Provost’s Chair and Lecturer Alexander Joseph Woon to get their insights.  Watch more: https://www.asiaone.com/video

Transcript

00:00Blind boxes and surprise items are everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE these days.

00:06From collectable keychains to mystery parcels, the popularity of randomised items has spread

00:11rapidly in the past few years.

00:13The concept of these items of chance isn't something new.

00:16We've got stuff like trading card packs and gachapon machines around Singapore for decades

00:20now.

00:21I get the appeal.

00:22You definitely get a small rush of excitement when you open one of these, but do people

00:26stop at one, or do they keep trying for more till they get the one they were gunning for,

00:31or perhaps one that's worth more than the rest?

00:34And when that happens and people buy more and more, does it become a form of gambling?

00:44These keychains, toys and cards may seem harmless if you just get one or two, but if one gets

00:49hooked onto the thrill of the element of surprise, could it lead to a gambling addiction?

00:55At what point does it become a problem?

00:59We interviewed some people for their opinions, let's take a look.

01:02I think a lot of people buy blind boxes before, I've seen Nia a lot.

01:07And they sell so many different types, Labubu and everything, and then there are like sunny

01:11angels as well.

01:12Pokemon cards is the only one I buy.

01:14Usually like those figures or even like back charms.

01:18Me personally when I buy, I've been thinking about it for months, cause like usually I'll do

01:21some research on the cards they are dropping, maybe it's like a specific Pokemon that I

01:25like and I really want that card.

01:27The amount that I buy could be impulsive, maybe I decided that I was gonna buy one booster

01:31box, but after reaching the card shop I might buy more.

01:34Certain people I know, they really obsessively want like a certain one, and if they don't

01:38get it then they will start buying multiple, trying to pull the one that they really want.

01:44I do have one specific one that I really want, but if I get the other ones, it's fine.

01:48I wouldn't say impulsive purchases, because I've seen people who just buy like one or two,

01:53but some people like if they buy one, they like to have all the collection.

01:57So maybe that is an impulsive behaviour.

02:00Not knowing is part of the fun of all blind boxes, that's why I don't really mind not

02:03getting the one I want.

02:04I kind of just buy them because I have the urge to unbox.

02:07The reason people buy it is because it's like exciting to open it and see, so I still

02:10think the closed ones have the appeal.

02:12I think it depends on the mentality.

02:14For most people, I think it's just about embracing your inner child, right?

02:17So I think that's why adults, when they have a bit of money, it's a form of escapism.

02:20I think they know what they're doing when they buy it, and I think they know the consequences

02:26if they don't get what they want.

02:27So I think they mentally prep themselves like, hey, okay, I'm just gonna like whatever

02:32that comes out.

02:33I've seen people spend thousands of dollars on it, like damn.

02:38I do know people that will spend copious or excessive amounts of money doing so.

02:43And I think it's obviously not very smart, budget-wise.

02:48Yeah, I have addicted, but like I have stopped, so...

02:53Former.

02:54It's not a form of gambling, I would say.

02:56Because gambling is like hoping to get something more in return, but with just thought, it's

03:01just something for emotional support.

03:03So I don't think it's a form of gambling.

03:05Absolutely.

03:06It is why we buy it, to fulfill our gambling urge, you know?

03:10For me, I don't think it's gambling because I'm not buying to sell, I'm buying it for myself.

03:15So there's no expected value to come out of it, so I don't see it as gambling, no.

03:19I think like some people get adrenaline rush when they open, and then they try to chase

03:23that feeling, so they keep buying, and I think that might lead to addiction.

03:27Ultimately, it comes down to the individual.

03:29If you have poor self-restraint, then anything like even kinder joy can become an obsession,

03:34or like gambling, if you will.

03:36So it seems as though there isn't a clear answer as to whether people think these blind

03:41boxes can be considered gambling or not.

03:43But all of them seem to agree that you can get hooked onto the rush, and even possibly

03:48get addicted to buying them.

03:50Gambling, as we typically know it in the form of casinos or betting, is regulated by different

03:55laws in Singapore.

03:56So, could those regulations apply to blind boxes in the future as well?

04:00I'd like to find out more.

04:02Hi Alexander, thanks so much for taking the time to speak to us today.

04:05Yeah, not at all, Edward.

04:06It's a pleasure to be here.

04:07Okay, we've got this stuff here.

04:09What's the appeal of blind boxes, do you think?

04:12Let's start by talking a little bit about what do we mean by blind boxes, right?

04:15You can see there's lots of different things here.

04:18What do these things all have in common?

04:20It's you don't know what's inside, and I think that's the appeal.

04:23You know roughly what's inside, but you don't know exactly what's inside, and therein

04:27lies the fun.

04:28It's that little like dopamine hit.

04:30It's that little bit of the unexpected, right?

04:32We like things that are new.

04:34We like things that are novel.

04:35We quite enjoy not being 100% in control in many situations.

04:41They're leveraging off this element of chance, of randomness.

04:45Isn't that akin to gambling?

04:48Let's take a step back from the legal definition for a moment, right?

04:51And think about what is gambling and what's wrong with gambling.

04:54Is there a difference between gambling and randomness and chance?

04:58I think probably there is.

04:59Like there are many things that are chancey that are not necessarily gambling.

05:04What really conceptually makes gambling gambling is that you stake something on the outcome of chance, right?

05:09So if I flip a coin, I say, hey Edward, heads or tails?

05:12Is that gambling?

05:13Not really.

05:14But if I now say, okay, Edward, heads or tails?

05:16And if it's whatever you choose, then you get 10 bucks.

05:20Is that gambling?

05:21That's now gambling, right?

05:23Because something hinges on the outcome of that.

05:25It sounds to me like that promise of profit, that promise of a reward, a material reward.

05:33So when we think about these things, the loot boxes and stuff, my instinctive reaction is,

05:38I don't think it sounds a lot like gambling because nothing really turns on the outcome, right?

05:42You're not really betting anything on the outcome, but really the principle that we need to be looking at is

05:47what is the harm that is being caused, right?

05:49When we think about laws and how we apply laws, lawyers, we have this thing called a purposive approach.

05:54We have to think about the purpose behind the laws when we interpret them, right?

05:57So what's the purpose behind anti-gambling laws?

06:00It's not to stop you gambling per se, right?

06:02It's to stop the harms that come out of gambling.

06:04And what are the harms that come out of gambling?

06:06It's that addictive effect, which creates negative impacts for yourself,

06:11and for your family and for society.

06:14So I have personal experience with this because I, in 1997, I started playing a collectible card game.

06:20I was spending, I kid you not, almost all my allowance on it.

06:26I'm thinking back to that and I'm thinking,

06:28there was a lot of harm being done to me back then.

06:31That's a sort of microcosm of the problem of gambling, right?

06:34We can't regulate everything.

06:36To go down to the level of, okay, we're going to regulate this because kids might lose their allowance on it,

06:40that's going to be, that's going to be pretty harsh.

06:42It's going to be pretty difficult to enforce.

06:44It's kind of a spectrum.

06:45You don't want to go too far up, in which case anything with any element of chance,

06:49oh, I got to regulate that for your own good, right?

06:51But at the same time, there are clear lines.

06:53What are the lines that the government has put in place to protect people against behaviour

06:59that's obviously going to be bad for themselves and for society and their families?

07:03Generally, in terms of the law, you want to protect people from bad things that are done by other people.

07:09When it comes to gambling, we're getting further and further down the line, right?

07:11Because we're saying, well, now you're not necessarily harming other people,

07:14but you could be harming yourself and there could be knock-on effects to your family, right?

07:18Policymakers have a limited amount of time.

07:20It takes quite a lot of resources to go to parliament and get a law passed to do this.

07:24And the boundaries of that law and that policy have to be certain enough.

07:28So, you know, unless there is good evidence that this is a real harm,

07:33that it's having real negative effects on society,

07:38I don't think regulators generally will go to the trouble of regulating it.

07:43But even coming back to the core of this, right?

07:45Should we even have that policy?

07:47At a certain level, these things aren't that harmful, right?

07:50It's not that harmful for there to be a bit of randomness in your life.

07:54In fact, gambling, gambling, there's nothing wrong with it when it's done within some parameters, right?

07:58When it's not done to excess.

08:00The blind box phenomenon itself is not new.

08:02Potmart, of course, this kind of labubu thing is new.

08:05But blind box phenomenon is not new.

08:07Is labubu something to be worried about?

08:09The fact that people are spending thousands of dollars on labubu?

08:12Well, look, if in, you know, five, ten years, people are going bankrupt from buying labubus,

08:17okay, maybe we should do something about it.

08:18But chances are by next year or the year after, it'll be something else.

08:21So maybe it's not about labubu or Potmart specifically.

08:24It's a question of is this something that fuels addictive behavior in like a persistent and dangerous way?

08:31Or is it something that's just a fad and it's going to blow over?

08:34And for gambling, the existing law is primarily the Gambling Control Act, right?

08:38And the Gambling Control Act has a pretty wide definition of gambling.

08:41The only way that you know for sure whether these things satisfy the definition of gambling is if a judge says

08:46these things satisfy the definition of gambling, right?

08:48And we don't currently have a case, as far as I'm aware, that says that so definitively.

08:52Thank you so much, Alexander.

08:54Not a problem.

08:55I really appreciated you going through this with me and working it out.

08:59It's a pleasure.

09:01So, blind boxes.

09:04Harmless fun?

09:05Or something that could lead to more serious behavioral issues?

09:10Let us know what you think.

09:11And if you buy blind boxes too.

09:15Learn how to MIT b op.

09:28стенắt.tencb.com

09:34For more details, this was asked to check.

Are blind boxes gambling? | The Current State

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