- 8 months ago
In this episode of News Today, the big focus is on Operation Sindoor that took place in Lok Sabha on Monday.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your primetime destination,
00:12Monday night and we've got all the news there for you tonight. The big story coming from
00:17Parliament where the Lok Sabha has begun the debate on Operation Sindhur. Has the government
00:22answered the unanswered questions? That's going to be our focus tonight. We'll take a deep dive
00:29into what exactly was said on Operation Sindhur inside Parliament. From Rajnath Singh to External
00:37Affairs Minister Dr. Jai Shankar. But first, as always, it's time for the nine headlines at nine.
00:45No Modi Trump call during Operation Sindhur, says External Affairs Minister Dr. Jai Shankar
00:52during the Parliament debate in Lok Sabha. Insists that there is no trade linkage in India-US talks,
00:59amidst the Pakistan conflict. Effectively, it's challenging the Trump version of what happened
01:06leading up to the ceasefire.
01:12As opposition raises questions over the Pahalgam security failure and reports of jets being shot
01:19down, Defence Minister says, why isn't opposition asking how many enemy aircraft were down?
01:25Rajnath Singh hails the valour of the Indian forces.
01:31The alleged mastermind of the Pahalgam terror attack killed in an encounter near Srinagar.
01:37Final identification awaited. One of them, Musa, could be the Pahalgam butcher.
01:43Supreme Court tells EC to continue considering Aadhaar and voter cards for their poll revision.
01:56Says both have a presumption of correctness. No stay though on the BR special intensive revision
02:03exercise. SC ads will step in, if any, illegality.
02:07Big breakthrough in Dharmstala mass burial case. Whistleblower identifies 15 sites where bodies
02:17of victims are allegedly buried. Probe teams on the spot.
02:2319-year-old Divya Deshmukh creates chess history beats.
02:27Koneiru Hampi to become women's World Cup champion and a grandmaster.
02:36PC has to lay off over 12,000 employees this year. Move part of the company's broader strategy
02:41to become future ready. CEO denies AI reason for sacking.
02:48Donald Trump says Vladimir Putin has 10 or 12 days to agree to a Ukraine peace deal or face
02:53sanctions warns of possible tariff announcement within a day.
02:57And a horrific mass shooting in Bangkok. Six people dead in a killing spree. Gunman kills himself
03:04after the massacre.
03:17But tonight's big breaking story is coming from Srinagar where three Pakistan terrorists
03:23have been killed in an encounter and the Jammu and Kashmir police says identification is underway.
03:29The big news, sources claiming one of the terrorists could be the Pehelgaam mastermind.
03:36Lashkar terrorist Musa is among the slain terrorists according to sources to India today.
03:43But a final confirmation on the identification of the three terrorists is still awaited.
03:48Remember, it's more than three months since that terror attack took place
03:53and questions have been raised as to where are the terrorists.
03:56Could this be the big breakthrough in avenging Pehelgaam in a way?
04:01Kamaljeet Sandhu has been tracking that story since the morning joins us.
04:05Kamaljeet, can you give us more details?
04:08Kamaljeet, the Jammu and Kashmir police says identification underway.
04:11Kamaljeet, what are you picking up?
04:17Well, it's taken several months to say the least.
04:20It's three months since Pehelgaam terror attack and South Kashmir, there were massive cordon
04:26and search and operations carried out but nothing came out of it.
04:30However, this is by chance an encounter which has taken place, remember, in the Mahadev Ridge area.
04:38Remember, as far as security forces are concerned, they had been actually looking for clues all around.
04:44But the first one came around 11th of July when a signal, a communication signal came on just for a few seconds.
04:52That's the time they actually pinpointed towards Dachigaon area.
04:56Thereafter, several teams were sent in and I remember Jammu Kashmir police, the CRP of the Indian army.
05:03But it was four paras which really got lucky because two days ago, once again, that communication signal came on.
05:11So they zeroed in and then they started moving.
05:14And, you know, when four paras moved in that particular area, they saw a tarpaulin and then they saw these terrorists who were hunting,
05:20obviously tired from several hours of trekking.
05:23They had been moving around not just with weapons but also with utensils and items to eat.
05:29So what has happened now is based on the photographs of the bodies, remember, drone photography has also been done.
05:37There's also a possible identification and that is why it was important that Jammu Kashmir police sends a team of experts.
05:43They had to trek down seven to eight hours and that is why this arduous journey itself becomes very important.
05:50A lot of people saying, why is it taking so long?
05:53Because it's not on the plain side.
05:54It's in the deep forested region of Dachigaon.
05:57This is where they have trekked seven, eight hours into an area which may be 9,000 meters.
06:04And what we've also been told is there is a possibility that these bodies are carried back down, especially on stretchers.
06:13But yes, underway is the identification and soon we will know.
06:17But as far as the photographs are concerned, it does look like Abu Suleiman.
06:21And he is Hashim Musa, a man who's been identified as one of the perpetrators and that could be the first success coming in.
06:30The others are also being identified, one is Haris, the other is also being identified.
06:36But clearly more will come once the identification is through.
06:40But this is a chance encounter as we would say because several of these security teams were scurrying out.
06:47And obviously there is a lot of time, a lot of credit apparently is due.
06:52And this is where it does seem that four paras have actually stolen the thunder.
06:56But we will know once a final confirmation comes in.
06:59And it's taken months and months and all due.
07:02We've been told only five bullets were shot in this entire encounter.
07:06It was a very brief encounter.
07:08And remember, these terrorists had no chance to even retaliate back because they were napping at that point of time.
07:13Okay, Kamal Jeet, Sandhu are giving us those details, possibility that at least one of them could be one of the terrorists who was the mastermind of that Pehalgaam attack.
07:24But more details will come when the identification is complete.
07:28Ironically, all of this coming on a day when the debate on Operation Sindhu finally got underway in the Lok Sabha.
07:37For the Government Defence Minister, Rajnath Singh started the debate.
07:41For the opposition, the opening speaker was its Deputy Leader, Congress MP Gaurav Gogoi.
07:47External Affairs Minister, Dr. S. Jayshankar spoke in the evening, giving a detailed account of what happened in U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance's phone call to Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
07:58The debate is expected to continue tomorrow.
08:01But we thought we will first dissect what has happened today.
08:04How does this debate answer some of the unanswered questions?
08:08Do those questions still swirl around over Operation Sindhu?
08:12I will be breaking those questions down with a special panel.
08:16Let me introduce my panel first and then come question by question to my guests.
08:22Brahma Chalani is India's leading strategic affairs expert.
08:25He will join us.
08:26Lieutenant General Rameshwar Yadav is former DG Infantry.
08:31Vivek Kaju, former Secretary of Ministry of External Affairs.
08:33Gentlemen, my only request is keep your intervention short so that we can pack in as much as we can as we break down what was said in Parliament today.
08:43The first question and the first unanswered question.
08:46Remember Donald Trump 26 times has claimed he is the one who brokered the India Park ceasefire.
08:52Does Trump really deserve to claim credit or is he lying?
08:56That's one of the questions that's been swirling.
08:59Listen in to what Dr. Jai Shankar, the External Affairs Minister, had to say in response to the T word, not terror, but Trump.
09:07The last two days will be held.
09:09The last two days of our day is called, Mun傳 in Pakistan.
09:11That we will be looking forward to the T ilison of Pakistan.
09:13That's the case.
09:14And the last two months we feel like in Pakistan is now coming up.
09:16The arrival of Pakistan with the same way we are making our news.
09:20The last two weeks we have given up.
09:21Cease fire.
09:21The final question.
09:22Is that why?
09:24What did we do?
09:24What happened?
09:25we want to know the council of the party
09:29if Pakistan was in the way
09:32he was prepared to do
09:35why did you do that?
09:37why did you do what?
09:38and they were left
09:40in the way
09:40who did you surrender?
09:42who did you surrender?
09:44who did you surrender?
09:46who did you surrender?
09:48the government of the party
09:49who said that 26 years ago
09:51that the government of the party
09:53But on the 9th of May, Vice President J.D.
10:06Vance called the Prime Minister, warning of a massive Pakistani attack in the next
10:14few hours.
10:16Prime Minister, in his response, made it very clear that if such an attack happens, it
10:23would meet with an appropriate response from our side.
10:27Now, sir, that attack took place and was foiled by our armed forces.
10:36And I think the House should collectively appreciate the performance of the armed forces in foiling
10:43what was a massive attack.
10:45Now, on the 10th of May, we received phone calls sharing the impression of other countries
10:56that Pakistan was ready to seize the fighting.
10:59Our position was, if Pakistan was ready, we needed to get this as a request from the Pakistani
11:06side through the DGMO channel.
11:10That is exactly how that request came.
11:13Now, I want to make two things very clear, sir.
11:17One, at no stage in any conversation with the United States was there any linkage with
11:26trade and what was going on.
11:29Secondly, there was no call between the Prime Minister and President Trump from the 22nd of April when
11:43President Trump called up to convey his sympathy, and the 17th of June when he called up Prime
11:51Prime Minister in Canada to explain why he could not meet.
11:55Mr. Brahma Chalani, you've heard what was said there.
12:02Do you go along now?
12:03Can we now safely say that President Trump does not deserve to claim credit?
12:09Whether he deserves credit or not is a larger issue, but we should not forget one thing, that President
12:19Trump has never claimed that he spoke with Prime Minister Modi.
12:25But it speaks for itself that the first announcement on the ceasefire was made neither by India nor
12:33by Pakistan, but by President Trump.
12:37Trump made the first announcement on the ceasefire between India and Pakistan.
12:42Similarly, in 2019, when India carried out the Palakot airstrike and Pakistan then responded militarily,
12:53it was President Trump serving in his first term who announced de-escalation between India
13:00and Pakistan.
13:02So there is a record here, and the record actually goes back a long way.
13:06For example, during the Kargil war, President Clinton, sorry, yeah, President Clinton intervened,
13:12and he made the announcement of de-escalation.
13:15So the U.S. has a tendency to intervene.
13:19We do not know to what extent Trump intervened in the Operation Sindhuur of India.
13:26But at the minimum, the U.S. played the role of a facilitator.
13:32It did speak with Pakistan, it did convey messages to New Delhi.
13:38So there was a role for the U.S. in this conflict.
13:43To what extent it played a role in getting Pakistan to agree to a ceasefire, we do not know.
13:50But it did play the role of at least a facilitator.
13:53Okay.
13:54Let me take that to you, Vivek Karju, as someone who's had a long experience of diplomacy.
14:00How are we to read what Jai Shankar said in response to the opposition question or the
14:05country's question on how was a ceasefire achieved?
14:09Gaurav Gogoi is saying if we were so much on top of Pakistan, why did we then go in for
14:15a ceasefire?
14:16Jai Shankar has given an entire timeline.
14:19Does that lay the issue to rest in your view now?
14:23I think Jai Shankar is a consummate diplomat.
14:28He has vast experience by now of as external affairs minister.
14:34So he chose his words very, very carefully.
14:38What did he say?
14:40He said, and this is a fact, let me add, this is a fact that during such confrontations,
14:47many countries have what I choose to call conversations between the contending or the parties in conflict.
14:58And certainly in this case, too, many of the major powers would be having conversations
15:04at different levels with us.
15:06What Jai Shankar has clarified is, and what Bama has also said, I agree with him, that there's
15:13been no talk of a direct conversation between Trump and Prime Minister Modi.
15:19But then why did Trump choose to announce the ceasefire with due regard?
15:23Why did, you see, by announcing the ceasefire and then repeatedly claiming credit for it,
15:28did Jai Shankar, in your view, address that issue?
15:30Sure.
15:31But let me just complete.
15:32I'll just take half a second.
15:33I just want your patience for half a second.
15:36Sure.
15:37Jai Shankar said that many countries, he did not single out the U.S., gave us the impression,
15:46please note the word impression, that the Pakistanis on the 10th were ready to call the hostilities
15:57off, and that we conveyed to them, these countries, that if they wish to do so, they have to use
16:04the DGMO channel.
16:09Now, clearly, as part of these conversations, I think the leading role was being played by
16:17the Americans.
16:20And clearly, the Pakistanis had agreed that their DGMO will converse with the Indians.
16:29In fact, if I recollect correctly, and you can check the record, we've gone and said that
16:35MEA received a call, if I'm not mistaken, at 12.37 PM on the 10th of May, saying that the
16:48DGMO, the Pakistani DGMO, was unable to get through to his Indian counterpart.
16:53And that, and this was their embassy, their High Commission here, telling us this.
16:58So, we responded by saying that, okay, he can get through.
17:03And he got through.
17:04And then they had a conversation at 3.30 or some such time.
17:09And they decided that within an hour and a half, there will be the cessation of hostility.
17:15So, Jay Shankar has not refuted the Trump, but he has expanded it to say that we were getting
17:27this impression from many countries.
17:30Now.
17:31Okay.
17:32No one has.
17:33And last point.
17:34No one, interestingly, during this debate, and this is what I'm finding, that as I hear
17:40this debate, I find it's not really a debate.
17:43It is talking past each other.
17:46A debate is when the opposition and the ruling party should engage with what is being said by
17:57the government and dissect their statements like you are trying to do today.
18:02That is what is the debate that is not taking place.
18:05So, people could have asked him, what were these impressions based on?
18:11Did we ask the interlocutors who were telling us that there were these impressions?
18:18Were we pursuing them?
18:19Were we asking them what was this?
18:21And who was our principal interlocutor?
18:24If it was the Americans, then there would have been some clarity about the question that
18:33you have asked, why did Trump break it?
18:36Obviously, the inference that I have is that the Americans were the principal interlocutors
18:41which let Trump to be in the full knowledge of what is going to happen.
18:45So, I get what you're saying.
18:48Brahma calling it facilitators.
18:50You're saying possibly the principal interlocutors, maybe a direct question from the opposition
18:55would have been more advantageous to enable us to know exactly what happened.
19:00But, Lieutenant General Yadav, let's look at, you know, you've been a former DG infantry.
19:06The fact is, on the 10th, if India had such a superior position militarily vis-a-vis Pakistan,
19:12the question comes, why did we go for a ceasefire?
19:15That question has still not been answered.
19:19All we learned from Rajnath Singh in this instance is our political and military objectives were achieved.
19:25Without giving me clarity what those objectives were.
19:27So, do you believe that this debate has clarified that position on the ceasefire?
19:32A quick answer.
19:33I think this debate has clarified the answer.
19:37That is number one.
19:38And basically, it is a political question.
19:40When two nations, they go to war, they set across their objectives and what is their aim.
19:46And as per our defense minister, he has said, by 10th, we had already achieved our objective.
19:52Therefore, the proposal of Pakistani DGMO to our DGMO to seize the fire and seize the hostility.
20:00Well, what was the objective?
20:03But Mr. Rajnath Singh with due regard, sir, did not specify what that objective was.
20:07What was the objective?
20:09Well, Rajdeep, may I also convey to your viewers, as far as military operations are concerned, everything doesn't have got to be in the open domain.
20:19What are the political objectives, military objectives?
20:22I think that need not to be given out in the open domain at all.
20:26So, what is required to be given is only need-to-know basis.
20:30And this is what the government and all their, and including the military bras, during the Op Sindhu briefing, they had given it out.
20:37And I agree with them.
20:38Okay.
20:39And yes, we could have, we could have prolonged the operation fine.
20:44But since we had already achieved our objective of punishing Pakistan and trying to create a deterrence that they should not indulge into terror tactics, I think that was achieved.
20:56And I agree with the opinion of the government and I am with them on this issue.
21:01Okay.
21:02Let's raise the next question in the debate.
21:05Did India, unanswered question, did India get adequate global support for our actions during Operation Sindhu?
21:13Was Pakistan isolated as we might have hoped as a terror state?
21:18Once again, listen in to a tug of war this time between Jai Shankar and Dipinder Hudda of the Congress.
21:25I can't resist on the other side.
21:27It should not be the most, it should be the most, but also the most, it should not be the origin of the government's war-or-proven.
21:30So, the Korean leader and the other side of the country never became the main manger.
21:32And the other side, the Iraqis and the other side, the Kurdishиш country, the Nigerian, Pakistan, Malaysia, etc.
21:51and you have to do it with a lot of money.
21:54IMF has a million dollars for loan sanctioned,
21:57but you have not heard of it.
22:00World Bank has 40 million dollars for the price of the price.
22:06ADP has 800 million dollars for the loan
22:12for the loan.
22:14United Nations Security Council
22:17The Council underlined the need to hold the perpetrators, organizers,
22:29financers and sponsors of this reprehensible act of terrorism accountable
22:35and bring them to justice.
22:37The TRF has been designated as a global terrorist organization
22:42by the US government
22:44and the same Pakistani foreign minister
22:46who took so much pride saying I defended the TRF
22:50says well now if the US has done this we accept it.
22:53Honorable Speaker Sir, there are 193 nations of the United,
22:57members of the United Nations.
22:59193.
23:01Only three.
23:03Apart from Pakistan.
23:05Opposed operations in there.
23:07Only three.
23:08India has got adequate global support in its war against park-based terror.
23:19Rajdeep, force should always be a last resort.
23:23But when used, it must be guided by strategic clarity.
23:27A military operation should aim for results that speak for themselves,
23:32not rely on post-facto narrative building through domestic roadshows
23:37or sending delegations of lawmakers abroad.
23:42What is clear and undeniable that Operation Sindur punctured the myth of Pakistan's nuclear shield,
23:52which had long been used by Pakistan to shield its export of terrorism.
23:57By redrawing the boundaries of escalation, India has reinforced that proxy warfare will no longer go unanswered.
24:07But I think let's not forget the larger geopolitical fallout.
24:13For example, right during Operation Sindur, a third part, China played a pivotal role by supplying real-time satellite reconnaissance data
24:25and other assistance to Pakistan, as India's deputy army chief has said.
24:29Can this be ignored?
24:31Yet there is very little discussion in India on how China played a pivotal, if indirect, role in the conflict.
24:39Second fallout is that India, an emerging global power, now finds itself equated with Pakistan,
24:48a smaller, weaker country that has long been a rogue sponsor of terrorism.
24:55And a third fallout is that Operation Sindur has helped reveal Trump's new love for Pakistan.
25:04Trump has equated terror-sponsoring Pakistan with its victim, India.
25:09Trump has remained silent on the root cause of the crisis, cross-border terrorism, while portraying Kashmir as the central dispute.
25:17This aligns with Pakistan's longstanding tactic of using the Kashmir issue as a smokescreen to legitimize its terror operations.
25:27And another fallout, and I think this has major security implications for India.
25:36Just when the traditional popular respect for the military in Pakistan was eroding, with Pakistanis blaming the military for the country's ills,
25:45Operation Sindur has given a boost to the Pakistani military standing at home.
25:50Despite the heavy blows India inflicted, the Pakistan military claims victory by averting defeat against the stronger India.
25:59The widely unpopular General Asim Munil has not only rehabilitated his image, but also promoted himself to the rank of field martial.
26:09Over the years, every U.S. intervention in India-Pakistan tensions has ended up strengthening the Pakistan military at the expense of civilian authority.
26:21We should not forget that during the Kargil conflict, President Clinton's intervention effectively rescued Pakistan from a military and diplomatic debacle.
26:30The result was this emboldened General Pervez Musharraf to stage a coup.
26:37Now, Trump's shielding of Pakistan bringing India's Operation Sindur has led to a steep 20 percent increase in Pakistan's military spending.
26:47And the new Field Marshal is now trying to undermine Prime Minister Sharif, who's in power because of the army.
26:55You know, let me tell you, very, very strong words there, Vivek Kaju from Brahmachalani.
27:01Very different to the kind of narrative that was built by Dr. Jaish Shankar.
27:05This critical question, have we been actually able to isolate Pakistan or should I call it chin-pack?
27:10Because Brahmachalani also pointed out China's role.
27:14Here we are now encouraging, facilitating Chinese tourist visas as well.
27:18We seem to be having business as usual once again with the Chinese and the Pakistanis have managed to strike a relationship with the Trump administration.
27:28So, is that question sufficiently answered by what the External Affairs Minister said that the UN Security Council has condemned terror,
27:36BRICS has condemned terror, but all of them seem to be engaging with Pakistan.
27:41Look, for me, the following issues are important.
27:46One, will Pakistan after operations endure or at any stage give up terrorism as part of its strategic doctrine?
28:00One, I do not think it will.
28:04It is inherent now in Pakistan's strategic DNA, the use of terror against India.
28:13Two, I think the Pakistani-Chinese nexus is of long standing and it will only intensify in the future.
28:25That is a reality that we have to live.
28:29Three, let us not forget that Pakistan compared to us is a much, much smaller state.
28:39But objectively speaking, it is a country of 24 crore of people.
28:46It is a country with nuclear weapons and no one wants a nuclear Somali.
28:55Then my next point.
28:57Of course, the UN Security Council will condemn a terrorist attack, especially as a heinous, as heinous a terrorist attack at Bahasa.
29:09Of course, it will demand that the perpetrators and those who are behind it should be called to justice.
29:18This is not something that is unusual.
29:22This is what the Security Council is expected to do.
29:27So, even with Pakistan being a member of the Security Council, Pakistan cannot simply object to it.
29:36But, sir, let me repeat.
29:38Was Dr. Jai Shankar successful in countering the opposition argument that India has failed diplomatically post-Pahalgam, yes or no?
29:48India has failed.
29:49India has failed.
29:51Look, in diplomacy, Rajdeep, there are no yes or no answers.
29:57Have we achieved our diplomatic objectives?
30:00Have we achieved our diplomatic objectives?
30:03Look, I think if our diplomatic objective was to show to the world that India will not absorb Pakistani terror anymore, that the Indian political class was united and determined, then by sending the seven delegations, all party delegations, which I think was a brilliant move on the part of the government and the political class as a whole.
30:32We achieved that.
30:33Okay.
30:34But at the same time, what we did not achieve, clearly, and what if you noticed, Dr. Jai Shankar never said, through his statement, was that any country specifically named Pakistan as behind Pahalka.
30:53Okay.
30:54He didn't say that.
30:56That's right.
30:57So, one last sentence and it's important.
31:00Yes.
31:01He tried to bypass this by saying that the term or by implying that the term cross-border terrorism implies Pakistan.
31:12Now, yes is the part.
31:15Point taken.
31:16Point taken.
31:17Point taken.
31:18I just want to move on to other bits.
31:19But I think your point is well taken.
31:21That it's almost what Dr. Jai Shankar didn't say, which is almost at times as important as what he did.
31:27My third question, and I'll get you General Yadav on this.
31:30How many jets did India lose was a question the opposition has asked at various times during the debate already.
31:37Is the government coming clean?
31:40Listen in now to Rajnath Singh and Gaurav Gogoi.
31:42Um, I'm going to go ahead.
31:43He is going to go ahead.
31:44Come and talk to us about that.
31:45No, I'm going.
31:46The Jadii government member, I'm going to go ahead.
31:47Me, as long as I said, I'm going to go ahead and ask us about the same questions.
31:48I'm going to go ahead.
31:49Now, as long as we begin with our Champs, we start to ask us about the same questions as possible.
31:50It is.
31:51I am going to ask the question for us.
31:52That is why, when we believe in the country, the people of China sent us three or three weeks,
31:55and we are going to go ahead.
31:56Yes, you'll say we own this.
31:57That we are going.
31:58We will say that.
31:59If we are going down to China, the United States of China, there will be a tough country to us.
32:01ुद्ध में जब दुखन प्रिणाम आया तो हमने उस समय की सरकार से यह
32:06पूछे थे लेकिन वह प्रस नहीं है था कि हमारे देश की धर्ती पर दूसरे
32:11देश का कब्जा कैसे हुए 71 की युद्ध में 71 की युद्ध में जब हमने
32:16पाकिस्तान को सबत सिखाया उस मैं उस समय की सरकार को मैं बढ़ाई देना
32:21शाहता हूं हमने अपने राजनेतिक और सेंडेने सिर्थ की पर्चिंसा की हमने यह नहीं
32:28रेखा कि किस दल की सरकार है किस विचारधारा की तरकार क्या जरूर वो यह जरूरी
32:34कि जेट गिरे पर क्यों गिरे क्या ग्लतियां हुई वो महत्वपूर्ण है संख्या महत्वपूर्ण नहीं
32:46सर 35 रफायल है अगर उनमें से कुछ गिरे भी तो देखिये सर मुझे तो लगता है कि बहुत बड़ी शती होता
32:57General Yadav, contentious sensitive issue raised by the opposition, Gaurav Goga even quoting what General Anil Chauhan said on the issue of jets, of alleged jets being lost, should the government have come clean, do you believe they came clean on the issue, Rajnath Singh claim forget about how many we lost, think about how many the enemy lost
33:18Rajdeep, I'm not privy to what has happened and what is the tally of what we had destroyed or what they destroyed
33:26So I won't be able to comment on that, that is number one, but the fact remains when two nations go to war, with the kind of weaponry that has been used beyond visual range missiles and missiles of precision guided weapons, so there are bound to be some damage, what is that level of damage is difficult to say, and all these statistics is better known to officers who are in command as of now and not retired people like me
33:54Should they be out in the public domain, General Yadav, should those details be out in the public domain, no
34:00It should not be, it should not be, there is no way, nothing of this kind of military statistics should be out in the open domain at all
34:08Okay, Ramachalani, do you agree with what General Yadav says, he says, even if jets were down, we, it is not, the government does not have any obligation to reveal it, not even in parliament
34:23Rajdeep, it was India's chief of defence staff, who in an interview with Reuters in Singapore, blundered by talking about the loss of some Indian warplanes on the first day of Operation Sindhu
34:40He said the loss of some Indian warplanes resulted from, quote-unquote, a tactical mistake, which the Indian armed forces corrected within two days
34:51What was the tactical mistake? Was it that the political leadership turned a blind eye to the first principle of air warfare?
35:01The first principle of air warfare is that you take out the enemy's air defences first before seeking to strike the real targets
35:10Now, in line with that principle, Israel, in its opening salvos, took out Iran's air defences, paving the way for deep penetration strikes while crippling Iran's ability to respond
35:24In other words, by first neutralizing Iran's air defences and thereby gaining control over the skies, Israel prevented Iran from escalating the conflict to a full-fledged war
35:38In India's case, did the political leadership initially direct the armed forces to strike only terrorist camps inside, awaiting Pakistan
35:48An approach that led to the avoidable loss of some Indian warplanes? That's an important question
35:55Right.
35:56And a second key question, Rajdeep, is that when the political leadership finally authorized the air force to disable Pakistan's air defences and air bases
36:06That neutralization happened on the morning of May 10. But immediately after neutralizing Pakistan's air defences, India declared a ceasefire. There were no further Indian strikes.
36:21This defies strategic logic. Enemies' air defences are neutralized not as a demonstration of capability, but to pave the way for strikes on the intended strategic targets.
36:35India's target was Pakistan's state-run terrorist infrastructure. But just when India neutralized the enemy's air defences, India abruptly seized its military operation. Why? That remains an unanswered question.
36:50And I think that question needs to be addressed because if we do not address that question, future historians will certainly address this question.
36:57Let me then turn to the next unanswered question. Was it answered in parliament? Did India face chin-pack fused front? The idea of chin-pack?
37:09Listen in once again. Dr. Jai Shankar vs. Gorov Gorgoy on the China Equation.
37:16We want to know this, that Lieutenant General Rahul R. Singh has said that the Lieutenant General Rahul R. Singh did not go to Sudan,
37:23not to enter, nor soc 222, nor theats, nor theats of the head of the region of the leader of the country.
37:34That neither of Japan stepped into the lower level of the country.
37:38While Pakistan was just on front of the sternum and for Pakistan, the China said that it was completely different and the people were trapped in this position.
37:44I don't need to talk about this, because in the past five years, there was 80% of military hardware in Pakistan is getting the whole of China.
37:57So sir, I would like to ask you, who talks about China, who talks about China, the government talks about China,
38:04why are you saying that China and Pakistan is not only two fronts, but China and Bangladesh are not too close to China.
38:23But I would like to ask you, the two fronts was the one that was the two fronts.
38:28The person who said it and maybe the leader of opposition must have missed their history
38:44lessons in school. I'll tell you why. Because I would like to walk you through the history
38:49of this two front. The two front started because of something called P.O.K.
38:58P.O.K. was created in 1948-49 by the government of this country by not completing the job of
39:06what was to be done. The crisis was on. The leader of opposition decided to get a briefing
39:14from whom? Not from the government, not from the EMEA, from the Chinese ambassador. Now
39:21some mention was made about visits, including my visit. Yes, I went to China. I went to
39:30China to make our position very clear about de-escalation, about trade restrictions and
39:36about terrorism. I did not, I did not go to China to book for the Olympics. I did not
39:43go to China for secret agreements.
39:45Piwak Kayju points.
39:46Piwak Kayju, has the chin-packed question been answered by the external affairs minister
39:52in your view?
39:55I think that, in fact, question is a strategic question.
40:00Mr. Jayashankar's response was purely political.
40:08It was not strategic.
40:10He delved into history in a selective manner.
40:15Everyone delves into history in a selective manner.
40:17So Dr. Jayashankar's delving it in a selective manner
40:21is par for the course.
40:25I mean, after all, an opposition leader can ask,
40:29no one is asked about the government's response
40:33to the Pathankot air base attack.
40:36No one asks them.
40:37Perhaps it was not appropriate to do so.
40:40But Jayashankar has also become a politician.
40:47He was once my colleague, but now he's a politician.
40:50So he answers strategic questions politically.
40:53But Rajdeep, I want a moment to respond
40:58to what was your earlier question.
41:00I think you asked my other two co-panelists.
41:03But I have one small point.
41:06I think the general is absolutely right.
41:09There are certain strategic and military secrets
41:12which can never be removed.
41:14As a former diplomat, I believe in that entirely.
41:19But I also am conscious.
41:22That what transpired or what is believed to have transpired,
41:26I think that's a bit that's a more accurate formulation.
41:29What is believed to have transpired on the night of the sixth and seventh,
41:34set a certain global narrative.
41:38And that narrative has harmed us.
41:41Because ultimately, we were able to find pathways through Pakistanis aerial defenses
41:50to strike on the morning of the 10th at the nine air bases.
41:56I would beg to differ with Brahma on one issue.
42:00I think those demonstration attacks were very, very significant.
42:07We could have taken them further by having a strike, a major strike at a facility.
42:16But we can't overlook the fact and the world does not overlook the fact that India and Pakistan
42:22are nuclear weapon states.
42:25And whenever there are there is there are hostilities armed hostilities between nuclear
42:30weapon states and there is an escalatory process that sets in.
42:34It's a different matter that I believe the first step on an escalatory ladder is a Pakistani
42:39terrorist attack.
42:42But once hostilities begin, that proceeds into the background.
42:46And once the escalation begins, then everyone is very scared.
42:52And the major powers want it to be over, hostilities to be over.
42:57So I'm a little worried about the narrative business and the night of the sixth and seventh,
43:04because all my foreign interlocutors, some of them very senior people, have asked me just
43:10this question.
43:12And when I have answered it by saying that, look, see what happened on the 10th.
43:17They've smiled at me.
43:20Okay.
43:21Okay.
43:22In a way, what you are saying, therefore, from what we've gathered over the last half
43:26an hour of discussing, there are still several unanswered questions in a way.
43:30Today was only day one of this parliament debate, 16 hours in both houses.
43:35So there's ample time to ask those direct questions that perhaps the opposition needs to ask and
43:42the government needs to answer possibly without couching it in a manner that prevents the nation
43:50from knowing certain key questions.
43:53For example, what were the intelligence lapses that perhaps led to Pahelgam, an issue raised
44:00by the opposition, not answered in a way by the government or certainly not yet.
44:05The government has focused on its attacks on terror infrastructure.
44:09The opposition has focused much more on the lead up to Pahelgam and the ceasefire announcement
44:15by Donald Trump.
44:16To all my guests, I appreciate you joining us.
44:19We'll try and bring you back, perhaps once the debate has finally concluded.
44:23But for now, Brahma Chalani, Vivek Kaju, General Yadav, thank you so much for joining me here
44:29on the news today.
44:30Another big story tonight.
44:32The Supreme Court took up the petitions on Monday challenging the Election Commission's
44:36special intensive revision of electoral rolls for Bihar, an issue which has divided the political
44:43class in particular.
44:45The court has not ordered, importantly, a stay on the exercise, but suggested once again
44:51that the Election Commission should accept Aadhaar and voter ID cards as proof of documentation.
44:58What else did the court say?
45:00Anisha Mathur has the details.
45:02Well, it's a no stay for now on the Bihar SIR, but the Supreme Court has raised certain
45:09questions about why Aadhaar and election cards, the voter cards are not being allowed as proofs
45:16by the Election Commission.
45:17Once again, the Election Commission saying that these documents can be forged by the Supreme
45:23Court shooting back saying any document, including the 10 that are on the EC's list can easily
45:28be forged in today's day and age.
45:30For now, however, the Supreme Court has said that it will decide on whether or not to issue
45:36a stay on the SIR process.
45:38But tomorrow morning, it will consider the issue of when the matter will be heard in detail.
45:43The petitioners have been asking them to issue a stay on the SIR exercise or at least delink
45:48it from the Bihar elections.
45:51Tomorrow morning, that is Tuesday morning, we will find out when this matter will be heard
45:57because remember, the publication of the draft SIR is on the 1st of August.
46:03The court, however, clarifying that even after publication, it does have the power to issue
46:09any orders that it deems fit after the detailed hearing.
46:12Back to you.
46:14Now, while the debate may be at the moment confined largely to Bihar and the special intensive
46:21revision exercise undertaken by the election, one other political controversy is also beginning
46:26to brew and it has a human dimension.
46:29Bangla-speaking migrant workers are living in fear in Gurugram.
46:34Over 350 people have been detained by the Haryana police.
46:38They claim in a crackdown on illegal migration from Bangladesh.
46:42But only 10 people have been identified as Bangladeshis.
46:46The drive has scared many migrant workers who work in the millennium city to leave in large numbers.
46:54Shreya Chatterjee with tonight's ground report from Gurugram.
47:02This slum in Gurugram is witnessing an exodus.
47:06Many Bengali migrants have left their homes in Q block after a police drive to identify illegal
47:13Bangladeshi immigrants.
47:15A six-year-old kid who points to empty homes of families that left in fear says her family
47:22is also returning to West Bengal.
47:25Migrant workers say the drive targets Bangla-speaking Muslims.
47:42Families are packing up not because they want to leave, but because they feel hunted.
47:57Migrant workers seem to be punished for the rules of the state government.
47:58Shreya Chatterjee with this man from Uttar Dinajpur says the process is arbitrary and humiliating.
48:01Shreya Chatterjee with this man from Uttar Dinajpur says the process is arbitrary and humiliating.
48:06Shreya Chatterjee with this man is not by the process of process of running such a process.
48:12Shreya Chatterjee with this man is giving them direct checks, and they are going to take away and detent.
48:16And then this voice, cutting through the noise, asks a question that stings.
48:46Kabir says he was born in Delhi, has a passport and a voter ID, but was still picked up, so was his son.
49:16Their fear is evident, their despair even more so.
49:46Some landlords speak out, urging the authorities to differentiate between Bangladeshis and Bengalis.
50:16Residents say many men without uniforms, without number plates, come, threaten and detain.
50:43India today reached out to the Gurugram police PRO with questions on the procedure followed and the allegations of torture, but got no response.
50:54Over 350 people have been screened.
50:58The police confirmed that just 10 illegal migrants have been identified.
51:02These lanes in Gurgaon that used to hustle and bustle with the Bengali Muslim migrant community now bear a deserted look thanks to a Bangladeshi dhundu abhyan that is being conducted by the Gurgaon administration.
51:16We've been told by sources in the Gurgaon police that at least 400 people were held in holding centres in four different places, but only 10 of them have been identified as illegal Bangladeshi immigrants.
51:30Raising a question in the percentage.
51:32Why were 390 people, despite being Indian nationals, picked up?
51:36All of them asking one pertinent question, that whether the language that they speak, which is Bengali, which is also an Indian language, is the sole reason for them being picked up and harassed.
51:49With Neeraj Vashishth and video journalist Sanjeev Kumar, with Shia Chatterjee, Bureau Report, India Today.
52:01Hopefully, people will not be targeted simply for the language they speak.
52:07To people who are being targeted for the religion they practice, to Chhattisgarh, where two nuns are in jail over allegations of conversion.
52:15They were arrested based on an F.I.R. filed by Bajrangdal workers.
52:19The arrests have sparked a political showdown, with even the Kerala chief minister now getting into the act.
52:25Chhattisgarh chief minister Vishnudya Usai, on the other hand, is backing the police action.
52:31Take a look at our other ground story.
52:33I don't want to see any attention.
52:36I've read Bible, because I'm very good, I don't want to tell you.
52:42The arrest of two Catholic nuns in Chhattisgarh over alleged human trafficking and conversion has sparked outrage.
52:53The sisters, Vandana Francis and Preeti Mary, were targeted by Bajrangdal workers at a Durga railway station on Friday.
53:08The police took the nuns into custody based on the complaint by Bajrangdal workers, who claimed the nuns were taking three women for conversion.
53:18Later, the nuns were sent to judicial custody by a local court.
53:22The church has denied the charges.
53:27Actually, I condemned the whole case, because it is a fabricated, planned affair by the police as well as the Bajrangdal people.
53:38These girls have been allowed by their parents to go for work, and they were accompanying the sisters to Agri and other places for work.
53:46They have been forcefully stopped at the railway station, and they have been taken to the police.
53:52They have been taken to the police.
53:54Viral videos of the arrest show the complainant, Jyoti Sharma, confronting the nuns.
53:58The arrest has sparked a political showdown.
54:00The arrest has sparked a political showdown.
54:25Leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi, in a post on X, called it an act of persecution.
54:32Kerala Chief Minister Pinnarevijian wrote to Prime Minister Narendra Modi, urging the centre to ensure justice for the nuns.
54:40Meanwhile, the Chathisgarh government called for a stop to conversions.
54:45The chief minister in a social media post claimed the nuns were trying to convert the women by offering them jobs.
54:51Chathisgarh's tribal belt is again in the eye of a communal tension, and this time to Catholic nuns are facing serious allegations of forced conversion.
55:04But now, chilling videos of Jyoti Sharma, a key complainant in this entire case, and also a famous Bajrang, the leader, are now going viral, trying to threaten the tribal villagers and coerce them to renounce Christian faith.
55:31Now, this entire incident has become a political and communal flashpoint, but the question rises, is this justice or simply a witch hunt cloaked in the name of Gharwapsi?
55:42The arrest of nuns has become a political issue in Kerala, which goes to elections next year.
55:53The BJP, which is wooing the Christian community there, is facing some tough questions from its rivals in Kerala.
56:00With Sumi Rajapan in Raipur, Bureau Report, India Today.
56:11Targeting someone because of their religion, simply unacceptable, unconstitutional, un-Indian.
56:19Let me, though, leave you with a story that I call only in India.
56:24In a bizarre turn of events that has left the Patna administration scrambling for explanations,
56:30a residence certificate was issued to a dog.
56:33That's right, a dog last week in Patna.
56:36He was listed on that documentation as Dog Babu.
56:40The Patna district administration, already under pressure on the election revision rolls,
56:45has swiftly swung into damage control after the story gained traction.
56:49And a fire has been lodged against the applicant, the computer operator,
56:53who entered the details of that lovely golden retriever without proper scrutiny,
56:57and the revenue official who issued the certificate despite clear anomalies.
57:02Guess, har kutte ka din aata hai.
57:05That's all I can say.
57:06Dog Babu has got a residence certificate.
57:09Okay, let me leave you, though, with a happier image of the day.
57:12And a happier image is of 19-year-old Divya Deshmukh from Nagpur,
57:16who created chess history, beating Koneru Hampi to become the Women's World Cup champion and a grandmaster.
57:24Those images of her with her mother are going viral.
57:28She truly has done the country proud.
57:31Indian chess is on top of the world.
57:34We leave you with that question.
57:36Thanks again for watching.
57:37Stay well, stay safe.
57:38Good night, Shubratri.
57:40Jai Hind.
57:41Namaskar.
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