- 7/7/2025
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00:00Pranam Achadiji. I am Atul Kulkarni. I am a MSP physics student here in IIT Pachna.
00:10And first of all, thank you very much for accepting our invitation. Sir, my question
00:17is a little contextual, so I'll read it out if you allow.
00:22In context of? Contextual question, so I'll read it out for you.
00:30I have recently watched a Netflix documentary on overfishing in oceans, called as Sea Spiriety,
00:38which claims, and I quote, if current fishing trend continues, then we will see virtually empty oceans by the year 2048.
00:48And if all aquatic animals vanishes, then we will vanish too.
00:53So, I got goosebumps when I heard this claim. And I have two questions.
00:59So, why any person in power or position, be it from government or media, or anyone in general,
01:07is not even speaking about this human activity, which are gradually leading us to sixth mass extinction.
01:15And second is, sir, what apart from spreading awareness, we can do as an individual to stop this exploitation?
01:25Why is nobody talking about this?
01:33Because you cannot talk about this and yet continue with the person you are, being in the same job, in the same relationships, in the same circles, with the same beliefs.
01:53With the same kind of religious practices. Everything will have to change. Why? Because everything has come together to give you this crisis.
02:15So, for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that what the documentary is claiming is real, that by 2048, if the current rate and trends continue, we will have virtually empty oceans.
02:29And if the oceans go empty of aquatic life, then we all will disappear. Right? And that is indeed true. That's indeed true. That's very factual. This is not just scaremongering. We know that this is indeed the scenario.
02:51So, this is there. But who will bell the cat? Who will call it out? If you call it out, then the onus will be on you to list the factors contributing to this depletion of aquatic life.
03:14And those factors will converge right to your personal self. Because the oceans are the way they are. Because you are the way you are.
03:34And if you want to bring a change in the conditions of the oceans, you will have to bring a change in your own condition.
03:46But our facilities and conveniences and beliefs and illusions and dreams and hopes and ambitions are all tied to our current condition.
03:58If you dare to challenge your current condition, you will have to dare to challenge your beliefs and dreams and relationships as well and your comforts and conveniences.
04:08We do not want to do that. We do not want to do that. You see, whatever you are talking of is anthropogenic. Right? What does anthropogenic mean? Caused by human activity.
04:21So, we caused it. We caused it. Right? So, if that is to change, if the effect is to change, the cause must change. It's simple.
04:35Wherein lies the cause? The cause lies here. But the ego cannot afford to change. Ego cannot afford to change. Let me give you a very simplistic line of argument. I will be constructing it as I speak.
05:03So, you tell someone that excessive fishing is killing the oceans. And that fellow is a flesh-eater. The moment you tell him or a fish-eater, not flesh-eater, fish-eater. The moment you tell him, listen sir, your consumption of fish is killing our oceans, he will say, but look at yourself.
05:32See, see how you enjoy your chicken and mutton. And how is one kind of flesh really different from the other kind.
05:41So, if you will point a finger at me, saying that I consume fish and fish products, aquatic products, then you will have to change yourself. You must stop your consumption of chicken.
05:51Hmm? But if you stop your consumption of chicken, you find your entire family goes against you.
05:59Because your entire family eats chicken not just for taste but for religious reasons.
06:08And your girlfriend happens to be coming from a sect or a community or a cult where sacrificing chicken and goat is a part of essential religiosity.
06:24So, if you tell her that I do not consume chicken because I do not want the oceans to go dry and if you want to be with me, girl, you too will have to stop all this chicken business.
06:37She will leave you. So, to preserve the oceans, then you will have to tolerate a girlfriend-less life.
06:50Do you see how it is building? It is all imaginary. I am just very like back of the envelope calculation. In a very approximate sense, I am building it up.
07:03But do you see where it goes? Everything will crash and crumble if we start talking about it. Governments will fall. Because governments themselves are subsidizing flesh consumption and meat production and export in a huge way.
07:26So, if you want to set up a slaughterhouse, if you want to set up a slaughterhouse, government of India subsidizes the setup to the extent of 50%. 50% imagine. And why do they do that? Because the population is burgeoning. And the governments cannot tolerate unemployment. They will be voted out of power.
07:49Two things the governments. Two things the governments fear in a deadly way. One, unemployment. Two, inflation. So, to provide employment to the people, governments will do anything. If it means killing the oceans, the governments will kill the oceans.
08:10And the governments have been voted out of power. And the governments have been voted to power in a democracy by the very people who will go extinct when the oceans dry down.
08:22Do you see how everything is related? How your democracy, your religion, your relationships, your dreams, your beliefs, how everything comes together to kill the earth? And that's why if you want to save the earth, you must have the heart to challenge everything.
08:37Everything. Everybody will be against you because all these self-interests have accumulated, have converged to bring us to the disaster that we currently stare at.
08:51It is not a coincidence at all. It is not a coincidence at all. It's a manifestation of all that which is wrong within us and all that which shows up in everything that we do, that we think of, that we are related to.
09:09Take another example. If you stop being exploitative towards the fish or the octopus or the turtle, you'll have to stop being exploitative towards your neighbor, towards your employees, towards your kids, towards your wife, everybody, right?
09:38But being exploitative towards everybody has become your life. And if you continue to remain exploitative towards everybody, how will you spare the mere fish?
09:49This fellow exploits even his own kids as so many parents do. If he continues to exploit his kids, do you think he will spare the fish? But you want the fish to be saved.
10:05If you want the fish to be saved, you will have to change the father that this person is. But his entire ego self is related to what he has been. Even if he has been a villain, he wants to continue as a villain because that's what his very identity, his existence is.
10:23He feels as if he is dying if he changes. In some sense, if you want to save the earth, man as he is will have to die. The two cannot live together simultaneously.
10:42Either the planet will survive or human beings as they are. And as we are, our time is up. 2048 is tomorrow. How long does it take 25 years to pass?
11:01It's tomorrow. It's tomorrow. We are done. We are finished. But that is the nature of the ego. It can tolerate even physical annihilation, but it cannot tolerate dissolution.
11:16Don't you see? Don't you see? People die for their beliefs. Look at what happens in communal riots. People are prepared to lay down their lives. I will get killed, but I will not change.
11:34And if you look at the course of history, people have agreed to get killed for all kinds of stupid reasons.
11:43We have killed and we have been killed for all kinds of nonsense. We find that easier. We find physical annihilation more acceptable than inner improvement.
12:04We sometimes think that a person loves nothing more than his life. No? That's popular wisdom.
12:22That a person values nothing more than his physical life. That's not true. That's true in case of animals.
12:29Human beings, human beings, for the sake of their ego, can accept to get killed.
12:41For human beings, ego is bigger than even life.
12:49We do not really live body-centered lives. We live idea-centered lives. The ego is an idea.
12:57For the sake of that idea, we will let our entire species perish.
13:09And that's what is happening.
13:11Anything that you look at it, the markets, the banks, the flow of capital,
13:18the use and abuse of technology, the use and abuse of technology, social systems as they are,
13:26the entire politics,
13:29all of that is just one.
13:31All of that is an expression of man's misplaced and violent and stupid ego.
13:37I do not know what kind of miracle we need to bring some light to that ego.
13:50We are trying.
13:52We are trying.
13:53But the whole thing looks next to impossible.
13:57This species of ours has gotten so mad, it's suicidal now.
14:14The name of that suicidal mission is development, progress, happiness, consumption.
14:19We just want to get finished off.
14:27And we don't want to talk about it.
14:29We want to pretend as if everything is okay.
14:34People are still marrying.
14:36And dreaming of having kids.
14:40And I wonder.
14:41I just don't wonder.
14:44I go aghast.
14:45We are coming to a catastrophic end.
14:54And you are thinking of bearing kids.
14:59You really think the kids are going to live in this world?
15:12It's like being on the Titanic.
15:13You had that man and the woman on the Titanic.
15:17And they are thinking of raising a family.
15:20And the ship is 25 minutes from sinking totally.
15:26But the two of them are together lying on their bed.
15:33Weaving their silky dreams.
15:36We will have three babies.
15:43What?
15:44In the next 25 minutes?
15:47There they had 25 minutes.
15:49Here we have maybe 25 years.
15:50We don't want to accept the obvious.
16:02And it's a mark of utter impending destruction.
16:09When you go into the denial mode.
16:14Entire humanity has switched to the denial mode.
16:17We are acting as if everything is okay.
16:21Look at your summits and declarations and conferences and agreements.
16:27Pertaining to aquatic life or climate change or environment.
16:30Look at the sheer hollowness of all that.
16:37We are cheating ourselves.
16:38All that is just an utter sham.
16:41A total fraud to oneself.
16:46Yet we engage in all that.
16:48And all that is duly reported in the papers.
16:49As if we are really doing something concrete.
16:55In terms of saving the planet.
16:58As if.
17:03Yeah.
17:05Prasad has brought this to me.
17:08And there is a very scary pic here.
17:11Indeed very scary.
17:14And I hope that this link will be shared with the audience we have today.
17:19And there is this place I suppose.
17:23Menindee is the name.
17:25In Australia.
17:26Millions of dead fish wash up near Australian town.
17:30And such a scary.
17:31Do you see this entire white patch here?
17:36At the centre here?
17:38That's fish.
17:39That's dead fish.
17:41That's the report says millions of dead fish.
17:47I have not read the report.
17:49But I think it's seen so many similar ones.
17:56It's going to be full of very bloody, very horrible details.
18:02But we continue to live merrily.
18:10Like that proverbial ostrich.
18:14You know of that, right?
18:16It sinks its head in the sand.
18:20So that it cannot see the cat approaching.
18:24That's how entire humanity is behaving.
18:26We continue to talk of the next Olympics.
18:34And the next World Cup and all that.
18:36And very soon you will be
18:38in a position where there would be nothing called next.
18:43The next would end.
18:51And the tragedy is that we will be the special generation
18:58that would see all that.
19:00And we will be left with the blame of inactivity to bear.
19:09Obviously, there would be no history left.
19:16History belongs always to the future.
19:18When the future is gone, history is gone.
19:20But just metaphorically thinking, history will ask us,
19:28what were you doing?
19:30History will ask our generation,
19:32what were you doing when the earth was coming to an end?
19:36And there would be no answer
19:40because there would be nobody to answer.
19:52Sir, you said to change the situation of us,
19:58we as humans need to change.
20:00Now, sir, to change ourselves itself
20:03is such a big task and time-taking.
20:06And it's really tough.
20:08Now, when we think of changing ourselves
20:12and then trying to make aware others,
20:16it is a time-taking process
20:18and also doesn't guarantee anything.
20:21So how, like, in few decades,
20:24we all are going to die.
20:25So I don't see any hope or point of hope.
20:34I'm sorry I missed your name.
20:36Atul.
20:38Atul.
20:39Atul.
20:39Atul, it depends on the urgency you see
20:43and the intensity of your love.
20:48Let's say you are addicted to something.
20:51Something.
20:51But if it's required
20:55that to save your brother
20:57or your mother, your sister,
21:00you give up on that addiction.
21:02Don't you?
21:04Yes, sir.
21:05So it depends on the depth of your love, right?
21:09You love to watch movies late night
21:14in your own personal home theater.
21:17In your room,
21:20at your home,
21:22you have a huge screen
21:24and you love to watch some Netflix movie
21:28beginning midnight,
21:31every night.
21:32and you discover that
21:36your father is ill
21:39and he'll continue to be ill,
21:43something chronic.
21:43and you just cannot disturb him,
21:49his sleep at night.
21:52Would you still continue
21:54with your interest for the movies?
21:56No.
21:58You know what is more important
21:59and therefore you know
22:01what can be dropped.
22:02In fact,
22:06it's in some way
22:07it's a very opportune situation.
22:12Self-improvements
22:14sometimes happens best
22:17under the pressure
22:20of adverse situations.
22:26If that adversity is not there,
22:28maybe you will
22:30cite some kind of excuse
22:33and postpone the change.
22:39But because the pressure is there
22:40and the situation is emergent,
22:44you know that you have to change
22:45or disappear
22:46or lose something very precious.
22:50And then you say,
22:51there is no way
22:53I can continue
22:55doing what I do,
22:57being what I am
22:59and liking what I like.
23:03So here I am.
23:05For the sake of something
23:06very important,
23:07I declare that
23:08I am changing myself.
23:12So,
23:13you are saying
23:1425 years is too little
23:16for human beings
23:18to change themselves?
23:20I am saying
23:21it depends on
23:22on how deeply
23:25you love yourself
23:27and this existence
23:29and the blessing
23:32that you
23:33inherited
23:35in the form
23:36of this planet
23:37and the millions
23:39of species
23:40that
23:41live along with you
23:44on this planet.
23:45It depends on
23:46how much you
23:47love and value
23:48all these
23:49and I rather want
23:52we value all these
23:53and if you value
23:55all this,
23:55change can happen
23:56in one day
23:57because
23:59no great
24:01external change
24:02is needed.
24:03The change that we need
24:04is internal.
24:06Our
24:07fetish
24:08for consumption
24:09has to drop.
24:10our
24:12stubborn
24:14insistence
24:15to latch
24:16onto ignorance
24:17has to drop.
24:20After all,
24:22the fish
24:23are all
24:24are not being
24:25dispatched
24:26to the heavens.
24:28The fish
24:28are all
24:29landing
24:29in our stomach
24:30or
24:33at some
24:35other place
24:35in our home
24:36in industrial
24:37form.
24:40The end
24:40product of
24:41all
24:43industrial
24:44output,
24:44the place
24:45it lands
24:46at,
24:46is
24:46the
24:47human
24:47home.
24:49Do you see
24:49that?
24:51Even if it's
24:51a business
24:52to business
24:52transaction,
24:53ultimately
24:54there has
24:54to be
24:55a retail
24:55consumer
24:56irrespective
24:58of what
24:58the business
24:59is.
25:00So,
25:00if the fish
25:01is disappearing
25:02from the
25:02ocean,
25:05it is
25:05landing.
25:06in our
25:10homes.
25:12So,
25:12if we can
25:12decide
25:13that we
25:15change,
25:17then all
25:17this fishing
25:18and the
25:18trawler business
25:19and all this
25:20can stop in
25:21one day.
25:22It's all
25:23demand-led.
25:25And you
25:25are the
25:26demand.
25:29The human
25:29being is the
25:30demanding entity.
25:31Right?
25:31If the human
25:32being can be
25:32changed,
25:33everything changes.
25:33the politics
25:34changes,
25:35the economics
25:36changes,
25:37the relationships
25:38change,
25:38the society
25:39changes,
25:40and then
25:43the future
25:43changes.
25:47And if the
25:48human being
25:48does not
25:49change,
25:49nothing
25:49changes.
25:59Thank you,
25:59Aparapu.
26:03ass
26:18man
26:19who
26:20has
26:21changed.
26:22He
26:22has
26:23the
26:23issue
26:24example.
26:25He
26:26has
26:26no
26:27of
26:28a
26:29Amer
26:30woman
26:31has