'Putin needs war to stay in power', Estonia’s PM Kristen Michal tells Euronews
Estonia’s prime minister believes that Russia will continue to be a threat as long as Vladimir Putin remains in power. In an interview with Euronews, Kristen Michal explained that ending the war would oblige the Russian president to face difficult questions from his own people.
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00:10My guest this week is Estonian Prime Minister Kristine Michal.
00:13Estonia is one of the biggest spenders on defence in the whole of NATO.
00:17He says everyone must increase their expenditure because, as he tells me,
00:22Putin needs war to stay in power.
00:25Kristine Michal, Prime Minister of Estonia, thank you very much for joining us
00:31on the Europe Conversation.
00:33We've had such an intensive time of late.
00:35We had the NATO summit in The Hague where we had Donald Trump arriving.
00:40We also saw one of the most remarkable things I've heard him say at a press conference
00:44was actually quite alarming.
00:45He was asked, first of all, whether he saw Putin as a direct threat, an immediate threat.
00:51He described Putin as someone who was misguided.
00:53And then he was also asked whether he believed Putin had designs beyond Ukraine.
01:01And he said, possibly.
01:02What does that make you think coming from Estonia?
01:07To be honest, we know our neighbour.
01:10For Putin, it's all about being in power.
01:13To be honest, Putin needs conflict, like fish needs water, because if you don't have a conflict,
01:19then probably people in Russia will be asking, where is my son, where is my husband, where are my assets, and so on.
01:27So to keep everybody under the lead, keep people quiet, keep the regime in power, he needs, Putin needs this kind of conflict.
01:37So that's why we understand that until the regime and Putin changes his goals, until then, Russia is acute threat to Europe, to NATO, to all the civilized world.
01:50Do you think it is possible then that Putin could try some sort of territorial conquest in Estonia or the other Baltics?
01:58I would say that we should not be afraid of it, because we are prepared.
02:03That is Finnish saying, and I'm quoting it often, that next year Estonia will have defense expenditure 5.4% of GDP.
02:11Last year, we were in top three of NATO, so I would say that we are getting prepared, and as a member of the European Union and as a member of NATO,
02:23which recently, a few days ago, committed to increasing defense expenditure, I would say that we feel strong with NATO and with the European Union.
02:33Because there was Donald Trump on his way over on Air Force One when he came to that summit in The Hague, casting doubt over Article 5, saying he had explained more when he got there.
02:45Now, when he arrived, he did give assurances that America was committed to Article 5, but there's always a sort of a haze around it,
02:53and there's a question as to whether in the moment, if there was some sort of territorial conquest by Putin,
02:59whether the United States and NATO as a whole would vote to trigger Article 5.
03:03I would say that Trump's message in that room was quite clear, and also the same in the press conference afterwards.
03:11He said that seeing that everybody agreed not to please him, but just to increase the NATO's capability,
03:20and also NATO's letality agreed to increase defense expenditure.
03:26And to be honest, going from 2% recommended level to 5, 3.5 plus 1.5 is a huge step for everybody, to be frank.
03:37And as he saw that and said that his message is also that he's committed, as long as he's in office, the states is committed to NATO,
03:46and that's quite a clear message to NATO members, that the United States is committed to NATO.
03:52When you look at Estonia, obviously you're top of the league when it comes to GDP spending on defense, over 5%,
03:58and probably that will go beyond that in the coming years.
04:01But then there are countries like Spain, for example, who say that's a problem for them, Slovakia as well.
04:07What do you say to those countries?
04:08I would say that it's not only the questions of kilometers, how far you are from Russia.
04:15It's also about recognizing that Europe works as a team, and NATO also,
04:21because NATO is only the strongest alliance because everybody contributes,
04:28and everybody has certain capabilities to support each other,
04:33because the U.S. is small, but as you said, our defense expenditure will be more than 5% in GDP in military terms,
04:42not even the wide terms.
04:44It probably will be even more.
04:46So we can contribute in certain capabilities that others don't have.
04:51I know that other Baltics, other Nordic countries are increasing the defense expenditure.
04:55So as we protect the eastern flank, we expect our allies in other parts of the world to do the same.
05:03I mean, what's your reaction, I suppose, to the likes of Pedro Sanchez?
05:06I mean, do you feel a little bit let down?
05:08I would say that my expectations probably are, yes, that as I know that every country has their own questions,
05:19let's say, in domestic politics, but to be honest, in NATO's declaration,
05:24I also asked the Secretary General Mark Rutte that do we have some kind of exemptions for Spain?
05:31He said that no, there are no exemptions and exemptions.
05:34So I would say that Pedro Sanchez will also have to elaborate himself that how he will fulfill the NATO criteria.
05:44Are you worried about any sort of malaise occurring within Europe, within NATO,
05:51those countries that, from a demographic point of view, that people will say,
05:55well, hold on a minute, I don't want to see all this money going towards Ukraine and defense.
05:59I want to see more investment in education, social health care, housing.
06:05This kind of message is always there, to be honest,
06:09because it doesn't even depend on which area of spending,
06:12because to be honest, some people are saying you should not spend so much money on roads or something.
06:19There are always these kind of messages, no question about it.
06:22But I would say that Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristiansand put it very nicely that,
06:29yes, we need a welfare state, but welfare state also needs protection.
06:35So if you want to have a free and prosperous area, which Europe is most free and most prosperous area,
06:42then you need to protect also and you need the capabilities and not only a phone call to your big friend.
06:49So I would say that increasing investments in defense is also increase of security in a very prosperous area to keep it free as it is.
07:00I mean, how do you explain that to your voters when they see the defense industry making an absolute killing?
07:08I mean, there are endless profits when people can't afford various things, various basic things,
07:14and they don't see an end to all of this.
07:16I mean, how do you speak to your voters about it?
07:19And also, what does Estonia do?
07:20Do you cut spending?
07:21Are you borrowing?
07:22Yeah, we do both.
07:24We cut spending.
07:25We are borrowing.
07:26And we also raise taxes.
07:29To be honest, this, not everything in that order are not very so popular in Estonia, to be honest.
07:37But where would it be?
07:38So nobody likes the taxes and nobody likes the cuts in public budget.
07:42But you have to do what you have to do to increase defense spending.
07:45But, yeah, but to explain it to people, I would say that it's probably quite simple.
07:54But because we are doing it for ourselves, for our kids, for our neighborhood, for our countries, not to anybody else.
08:03And also in Estonia and probably all over the Europe, it's the same scenario that defense industry right now is booming and going up.
08:12And I would say that it's also an addition to our economy because it's, yeah, for bad reasons, but it's quite innovative.
08:22In Estonia, we have almost already 200 companies going into defense.
08:27And one of the things, I suppose, one of the priorities or the points of Vladimir Putin's territorial conquest is to reestablish the Russian sphere of influence across, especially the Baltics, Europe and so on.
08:38But in Estonia, the Russian language, for example, has been all but eliminated in terms of Russian speaking schools and so on.
08:45Can you tell us a little bit about the action taken by Estonia to say, well, no longer will there be Russian influence in our country?
08:52Yes, we have been quite systematic, but same probably in other Baltic countries and all the other countries that have been influenced by Russia's actions.
09:02Because we are quite vigilant, to be honest, for example, Estonia was the first country in the world that since 2007, it has been a very, very long time that we became under constant cyber attacks from Russia's side, from stateside criminal players.
09:19And for us, the only way to cope with Russia's, this kind of influence, hybrid attacks and cyber attacks, is to increase our cyber capabilities, which are quite good, to be honest.
09:30And we have this kind of system also that the public sector is working with private sector in Estonia.
09:36But Russia has not decreased its attacks against us.
09:39So with the language, we are the same.
09:43We have this kind of reform going to Estonia on schooling.
09:46And I would say that it should have been done 20 or 30 years ago, but we're doing it right now.
09:52There are small debates, but nothing major.
09:56And we also had an electoral reform saying that citizens who can vote for Putin, for example.
10:03So Russian people with a dual passport, is it?
10:06Yeah, yeah. Russian citizens cannot vote in local elections.
10:09So that is a quite clear message that, let's say, half of Europe has done it already.
10:14So we are not in front even with that, that Russian citizens do not participate in local matters.
10:22If you want to participate in local matters, it's quite obvious you should be a citizen of that state.
10:27Just a final question.
10:28The EU has said that it's unacceptable the level of death in Gaza, the starvation, the number of civilians being killed,
10:35the attacks on hospitals, civilian infrastructure, lack of food and so on.
10:40What would you like to see the EU do in relation to Israel, international law,
10:46obviously notwithstanding the fact that hostages need to be released by Hamas.
10:50But what do you think the EU should do?
10:51The high representative presented a review with the Israel compliance and we also delegated this question that she will have a set of probable possible means for the next meeting that will be the European steps,
11:13because it was also a very emotional debate, as you said, that everybody wants to have a peaceful and diplomatic solution.
11:21But what do you think the EU should do?
11:23I mean, it's, as we've seen, the language is pretty extreme, a graveyard for children and so on.
11:29What do you think the EU should actually do about it?
11:31What the EU is doing and probably will do is trying to use its influence on Israel as much as possible to achieve diplomatic results and to achieve peace.
11:44But at the same time, as you pointed out, that hostages also need to go home.
11:50Okay.
11:50Kristi Mikhail, prime minister of Estonia, thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.
