@errol_musk back on The @AndrewEborn Show
@elonmusk @AndrewEborn Barrister, Broadcaster President @OctopusTV
ANDREW EBORN
Andrew Eborn, President Octopus TV Ltd, is an international lawyer, strategic business adviser, broadcaster, author and futurist. For many years Andrew has empowered companies to face the challenges of changing markets, maximise the return on their rights as well as assisting with the strategic development of their businesses.
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Andrew’s own career spans the law, television production, future tech and brand strategy. For many years, Andrew Eborn has empowered major international corporations to face the challenges of changing markets, maximise the return on their rights, as well as assisting with the strategic development of their businesses. Andrew has always been at the forefront of embracing technology and pioneering developments in entertainment.
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PeopleTranscript
00:00well hello and a very warm welcome back to the andrew eborn show well actually it's the a and
00:15e the andrew and errol show we've renamed it because it's back down to south africa
00:20with my new best mate errol how are we doing errol i'm okay you know been a number of you
00:27know ongoing interviews following the election you know and uh you know lose track of everything
00:35to be honest but anyway well you're on more platforms than paddington like me i love it
00:40yeah i have more platforms than paddington
00:43well one of the things that i love about people in the public eye is when they speak about their
00:51own challenges we talk about uh you know if you prick me do i not bleed if you tickle me do i
00:56not laugh at a great shakespearean quote um and you've previously spoken about some of the
01:01challenges that people face like divorce and how you've helped people going through that situation
01:06um elon himself has spoken about his own challenges with aspergers and uh and autism and he very
01:13publicly did that on saturday night live on the 9th of may 2021 um when did you first notice that elon
01:22was slightly different well as a child he i just uh as a child he um
01:30he as a child he um was uh you know would often stare into space you know and had that situation i
01:44think i talked on a show of yours where uh the teachers at the school he was at when he was in grade two
01:50called me the headmaster called me to say that i need to see him at that time i was concerned that
01:56elon elon was pretty vociferous you know people would say to him uh you know surely you know he's
02:03not reading that science magazine or something like that or whatever he had in his hand and he was you
02:08know and then he'd say what are you stupid you'd say to the adults you know this this wasn't taken too
02:15well and i remember on one occasion he was sitting with it the kids were all playing in this rather
02:19nice uh sort of garden at this house and uh the adults were sitting outside around a saturday afternoon
02:26i think it was sitting around you know talking and drinks and talking about i think at that time
02:30about the economy in south africa and how things were not looking so good and all that sort of stuff
02:35because of the pressures on apartheid and so on and elon was sitting with us you know and one of the
02:41adults uh turned to him and said hey why don't you go and join the kids he said no i'd rather sit here
02:47and listen to you to to to to what you're all saying so uh he said so this guy sort of i don't
02:53forget what he said but he he he said no now off he's you or something like that and said then elon
02:58said to him look stupid i'm staying here you know so that was pretty heavy you know and uh i just
03:06said him after look uh you know it wasn't taken too well by these adults in south africa you know
03:12on that basis i should have taken him given him a thrashing you know but um i said to him afterwards
03:18you know you can't say that you can't say that he was very small i wouldn't imagine more than five
03:23five or six or something you know and uh i said to him you can't say things like that to to people
03:28maybe seven i don't know and and and he said yeah but the guy's stupid i said he says he was stupid
03:34but you can't say that because they can't take it you know you they can't take it and uh you know
03:39so that was his thing so i was called once in the school and they told me when i went in the head
03:43master said in the headmaster's office you know very august scene in our time in that time um you
03:49know elon is retarded they told me so i said oh so i said i knew he wasn't retarded so that teacher
03:56the lady teacher was sitting there wringing her hands you know and saying oh i said well what's the
04:00problem they said well she said well he stares out into space all the time he sort of stares out the
04:05window all the time and he doesn't listen to her and um she can't even reach him she'll call him
04:12several times in the class and then eventually she said she maybe the day before something went up to
04:18him and right next to him he wasn't listening to her and then she pushed him on the shoulder and then
04:23he spun around you know you know and and sort of came out of this sort of thing and she said why
04:29aren't you listening to me i think and then he said that the trees are going green and you know
04:36it was like spring coming and and um and she said this is what he said to her and i said well you know
04:41this you know spring i mean he did notice that i think that's pretty cool and um anyway it was
04:49very awkward meeting but um uh the uh you know they said he has to go to a special school
04:56so i said maybe or the headmaster said maybe he can't hear properly so we jumped on that you know
05:01i jumped on it oh yes i think that's what it is so i said i'll take him for a hearing test tomorrow
05:06the next day and um i did there's nothing wrong with his hearing so i moved him to another school
05:12and uh to a sort of better sort of private school there weren't any problems after that
05:18yeah but but what we're talking about is autism so yes so he is like that you know a lot of the time
05:24now people say to me uh on i've many interviews and they asked me how is elon taking all this
05:30criticism that he gets you know all these you know unbelievable uh uh stupid wild criticism from
05:39from these loonies you know on the so-called left and um and i said well yeah elon doesn't really let
05:46that anything that doesn't appeal to him doesn't let it sink in he sort of bounces off him you know it
05:52just bounces right off him and um so that's really helpful because he's not somebody who's got oh my
05:59god somebody said this and this about me i've got to go and fix it you know i've got to go and sort
06:03it out oh no he's not like that at all you know you might say to him i'm sorry i said this and this
06:10was to you yesterday you might say um you said that to me and then you say oh no i think it was to
06:18somebody else
06:19yeah i mean it's certainly one of the good places and people got a greater understanding now of autism
06:27i mean some of the greatest minds in history were supposed to be uh autistic or somewhere on the
06:32spectrum einstein bill gates isaac newton charles darwin uh nikola tesla uh nikola mozart even
06:38even uh the person on the back of our 50 pound note here um do you know who's on the back of our
06:4350 pound note is that john crawford oh that's the right that's how much to agree now on the back we
06:53have um yes alan yeah who is he cracked the enigma code yes we owe him a lot but he not only cracked
07:03the enigma code he built the first computers in the united states that today led you know the the
07:09brain what is the brainiac or something not only the turing code but i mean not only the um what
07:15was it ultra code or something like that that's right yeah um he also uh built the first genuine
07:21computer in the 50s which was extraordinary a huge thing they had at bletchley park where uh well
07:28elon came along to that we had our first ai uh security summit and elon came along at bletchley
07:33park but alan turing and and at the time and he was ridiculed he was uh uh all sorts of things he
07:39was condemned but his differently wired brain uh basically helped um solve that sort of stuff
07:45and but elon's been very very open open he's he's used his great sense of humor we talked about
07:50uh that sense of humor beforehand coming from monty python the great british comedies
07:54uh and he's a big fan of saturday night live and this is where he came out the first host he said
07:58or the first host to admit it uh that he's on on the spectrum uh and he's talking about his own
08:03that doesn't have a lot of intonation or variation uh he did you think i was gonna be a chill normal dude
08:09sending people off to mars and what did you make of that saturday night live appearance
08:15well it was a long time ago i thought he was uh i thought he it doesn't suit him that kind of
08:21thing you know he was trying to be funny but but you know i'm i'm critical i mean he's my son so i
08:27say you know he's not a fool you know he'd been far more well his time would have been more you well
08:34used on on the saturday night live at any rate in a different way but dressing him up with costumes and
08:41so i i thought you know this is banal but i mean saturday night live has lost its appeal you know i mean i
08:48don't it was a really good with uh dan ackroyd and and chevy chase and those guys many years ago
08:56today i don't know what they're trying to do but you have to the the the i found they make
09:02they make fun of people which i i think it's not fair you know they can't answer back for their fun
09:08being fun made fun of you know yeah you make an interest it used to be some great music i did a deal
09:14with uh uh 25 years of saturday night live the fantastic music artists that they had on there
09:19in addition to the comedy uh but elon's appearance was on her back in may uh may the 9th 2021 he also
09:25had his mother on there as well uh how how do you think may came across i don't recall seeing her on
09:31it but i mentioned she's also she's not really a funny person so you know she's shouldn't i can't
09:39imagine her making jokes on that no no i i think i do remember that uh it was good publicity for him
09:47but at the end of the day you know making a fool of himself is not a really good uh way to go no no
09:53i would never have done something like that you know i'll try and be funny or go on that show but i
09:57wouldn't uh have them dress me up as some sort of mexican weirdo or something like that i seem to
10:03recall no no no it's it was it's not funny in fact i don't recall seeing a funny i'm sorry to be
10:10such a uh sour about this but i don't recall seeing a a good set night live show in years
10:20at all i i simply don't nobody follows it anymore yeah well it is interesting because it it has changed
10:26a lot and it's gone for that sort of controversy like one of the revelations um which may says is that
10:31they discussed it was when when elon was 12 he created his own video game called blast star and
10:36he was paid 500 for it uh but may had to open the bank account um no that's not do you remember that
10:44that's not true okay so elon when he was 11 persuaded me to buy him a computer
10:53this followed him actually wanting to join a computer course with adults and which they refused
10:59to have him on a course because he was only 11. but when i got him into the course which was run by
11:05people from england at britz university in south africa i got him into the course through sort of
11:10more or less begging on my knees because elon wouldn't let it go and um i'll tell you what the
11:15course cost it cost uh 750 pounds in 1982. wow so it was very very expensive if you look back you know
11:27and uh anyway so i got him onto this course and when i when he was on this course the deal with them
11:34was that he'd sit on the side and not say anything after the very first lecture he didn't come out
11:39this two hour long lecture he didn't come out and kimberl and i were sitting in the car outside we'd
11:44actually gone for a meal while while he was in there at vitz and i used to go to it so i knew exactly where he
11:50was and uh so i went in and and found him in the in the lecture hall at the bottom with his jacket off
11:58and his sleeves rolled up and his long gray pants he was he was only 11 and he had his and he was in
12:04talking with all these guys you know with these guys tall guys with these glasses grim glasses and beards and
12:11you know and and as i walked up to them this one guy who was from england he said to me uh without even introducing
12:18himself to me he said this boy has to get one of these new computers or one of these computers
12:23but it was the new ibm xt8 the first pc ever made and uh i said oh well my first question thought was
12:30thought was how much is it you know and uh and then the head of hyperrama which is a guy also from england
12:36which is a big sort of um hypermarket shopping center that they brought out here and i worked on those
12:44um he said to me i knew the guy and he said the the ceo and he said errol don't worry it's it's very
12:49expensive we'll give you a discount but at any rate it was 7 800 rands which is about 400 pounds at the
12:57time but i mean it was the same a new mercedes-benz cost 9 000 rands right a new one 220 to mercedes-benz
13:05220s 9 000 rest this thing was 7 800 rands i got a slight discount i think of about 400 rands but anyway
13:12i bought him this thing and um he then promptly taught himself how i don't know but he taught
13:19himself to code to to program you know he just went onto it like mad you know and he was on this thing
13:27all the time and um and then one day he he showed me a program that he'd made and and it's a a program
13:36he loved games you know video games and the earliest video games were like ping pong battles you know that
13:41works and stuff and then he showed me this game where using the keys on the um up and down and
13:47left and right keys on the keypad you you had this sort of little thing that was coming down and you
13:52could you could move your your gun back and forward and then you could try and shoot it and if it you
13:58didn't shoot it and it got past you and then you then you lose you see and so i said well wow that's
14:03amazing man knew absolutely nothing about this so then i thought this is pretty extraordinary so i
14:09asked him to type up the program art which he did and then i sent it to pc magazine and i said to him
14:16you know they should have a look at this so pc magazine came back to me immediately and said
14:21they published they want to publish this so i said all right so they published it for i mentioned
14:27the equivalent in today's money i would in the equivalent today's money i'd say 500 pounds or something
14:33in today's money 500 pounds it was not a little it was a reasonable amount of money for for that i
14:40mean so uh yeah so try and so they sent me that money and um and and and um i kept the page in pc
14:49magazine i kept that page for many many years over the next 40 years i kept that page and um among myself
14:58and then about four or five years ago or so i thought you know you're not having now done so
15:03well i will send this to him and remind him of it so i sent it to him and he then somehow gave it to
15:11other people and then wound up on the news you know as part of the news cycle that this is something
15:17he had done if i hadn't kept it nobody would know about it right i kept it you know the page out of pc
15:23magazine torn and tented but there it was and um yeah i sent it to him oh brilliant and do you think
15:31i mean this is what they say that the mind is incredible because it compensates doesn't it
15:35and all this wonderful creativity all this wonderful looking at the world in a different light um do you
15:41think the aspergers and the autism helped with all of that well you know i mean um i'm also a person
15:49that people say that when they talk to me i'm not listening and um you know all my wives may you
15:57know other people have always through my life said i don't listen when they're talking and then i said
16:02well i don't remember you talking to me and then i realized i've also got that a little bit and so um
16:08i think sometimes a person goes into a sort of deeper you start thinking sort of more intensely about
16:16something and you shut out the world because it's a very important thing you're trying to
16:20trying to solve in your head and obviously that's that helps because if you are being uh constantly
16:30constantly interrupted then you will obviously not be able to come to an answer in your head you know
16:38so um yes you know i would say you do it's useful yeah i know it is again he spoke very openly about
16:47this in a ted talk he's sort of he he talks about the struggles that he had with social cues with which
16:51you've mentioned as well um obviously taking things literally sometimes uh and it but also he says it
16:57contributed to his passion for technology including programming and physics because you look at that sort of
17:02side and i think what's really powerful as i said at the beginning of uh of this this conversation is
17:07that other people watching this who are struggling with people who may have children themselves who are
17:13on the spectrum as they call it that there is a positive side i mean how did you cope as a parent
17:19uh realizing that elon was different in this way well as i said you know he was different in a way that
17:26he saw things black and white and and his the way he responded to adults who seem to um want him to be
17:38like go and play with the children and stuff like that you know um he uh i had to say to him you know
17:46you can't behave like that you can't do that so and then he would say but why not you know and so um
17:52um so even to this day you know i i look at him coming on the stage with trump and so on you know
17:59he'll get get he'll get better as we all do as time goes by and become more sort of uh able to do it
18:07but in many ways i see him almost watching himself on the stage so he would get go and say he'd be up in
18:15the corner of the room you know looking at himself and trying to make sure that he says you know draw the
18:21right strings and says the right things i i uh you know he in terms of what i'm talking about is
18:27engaging you know so one might often think you're talking with him people might think they're talking
18:32to him but they get the feeling that he's not engaging but he is probably engaging but it appears
18:37he doesn't so there's its advantages i have had people not once many times say to me um that i think
18:46your son doesn't like me uh and then i'd say with an adult or whoever and i then i'd say no no and i'd
18:53call elon and i'd say you know so and so here are things you don't like him oh no no elon would say
18:59no no no no i like you or in a sort of stupid way as well you know and don't worry i like you and then
19:06clumsily you know try and make up for it but um it's more of that he's focusing on this on other
19:13things you know and even with me you know i was with him recently and we were talking and suddenly
19:19i saw he's not listening to me he's looking at his shoe and in deep thought looking at his shoe
19:25and then suddenly while i was talking to him it wasn't about terribly important so uh he suddenly
19:31said uh i gotta i gotta go now you know without even acknowledging i'm busy saying something him
19:38he looked at he said i gotta go now and he stood up immediately and started walking off so i said
19:43well aren't you gonna say goodbye and turn around oh sorry and you know then i gave him a hug and off
19:48he went so um you know that's about what it boils down to you know yeah and i think it is it's
19:54greater understanding i mean they're saying with neurodiversity there's about 1.5 million adults
19:59with asd expected to enter the workforce and i think uh people like elon where you can talk about
20:04things publicly and and get a better understanding because we've got greater understanding in society
20:10now and greater acceptance don't we yes yes we have and uh well i suppose they've always people are
20:16not we're not stupid in the past they also have understanding but of course nowadays you know people
20:21have i mean you take turing uh is probably one of the best examples of being tolerant of people who are
20:28who have tendencies to be you know sort of homosexual gay you know i mean he was he actually lost his
20:33life basically because of being uh you know homosexual so we lost one of the most biggest gifted
20:42people that we they were ever given to us because we weren't tolerant in those days so he's one of the
20:50best examples of you know being able to say to people when uh they some people have come said to me
20:56with in shock i think my son is gay to be able to say to them you know ellen turing was gay you know
21:02look and you know and then they oh right well you know so that kind of thing no no we're all more
21:07accepting of of that kind of thing today thank heavens yeah yes and i think there's certainly more
21:12understood so so people watching this is to say that there are lots of people who who do respond
21:16so positively to what you say on the andrew eborn show and that's why it's a joy having you here um
21:22tell me what what advice would you give for those who suspect they have a child who may have a
21:27a spurge's or autism on the spectrum what advice would you give to people yeah well you know i
21:33think people today as you've just said are more aware of this kind of thing and i imagine the
21:39schools probably might be more aware of it you know it's difficult for a teacher who's got 30
21:45maybe 40 children in a class that she needs them all to be somewhat regimented and do what she tells
21:50them all at once uh all at the same time but uh but and if you have one who's sort of out of sync
21:56it's difficult i suppose but generally the parents and so on are more aware of it now and and so it's
22:02it's i would say you know um you know try and measure how much of it is actually just a child being
22:10obstreperous or how much is real you know and um um if if a child has a tendency to be
22:20uh deep in thought over things that they're doing you know i i would say allow it you know tolerate
22:28it i have a little boy of seven you know once he gets into video games um he's elon's half brother
22:35uh you can stand around him you can set off fireworks you can flash the lights on and off you can do
22:41anything you like you ain't gonna get through to him he's just not gonna respond and um so yeah so it's
22:49the same thing in a way you know yeah no no good great great advice and i think more understanding
22:56and and recognize there is these sort of compensations i say some of the most brilliant minds
22:59uh of uh his in history uh uh nice to be on the spectrum somewhere um i want to go back to saturday
23:06live as you say there's sort of humor there has got a bit uh pointed elon's again um in uh in the
23:12press about this there was an episode which aired on november the 9th following uh donald trump's
23:16election uh and elon has um responded negatively to being mocked did you did you see that episode
23:23no uh well basically it was an open mocking of trump's win uh with dana uh carvey basically
23:29mimicked uh elon's enthusiasm with a maga hat and exaggerated gesture um and elon basically
23:35expressed his dissatisfaction on on twitter saying no it just wasn't funny um and i think this is your
23:41point isn't it that's not funny at all i mean you know they've they're trying to make fun of
23:48people i don't know what audience they're trying to reach they're trying to reach a a very stingy
23:54mean spirited audience that's out there a very you know deeply jealous hateful element that they're
24:02trying to reach out there that are all going to say hey look at that you know i mean um that's what
24:08they're trying to do i mean all they've done is made fools of themselves i mean this alec waldwin
24:14character has done this so much and i mean i don't know how he shows his face he's probably the one of
24:21the most disliked people on earth and so you know um they try all the stuff thinking it's going to go
24:28down wonderfully but it it doesn't go down it goes down like hook line and sinker you know straight to
24:33the bottom and and people turn it off the the audience for sad night live is almost non-existent
24:40you know i can honestly talk to my family overseas all my especially my daughters who watch lots of
24:45tv and i'd say might say to them do you watch sad night live they say what's that you know what's that
24:51and um no no i wouldn't worry about sad night live at all not at all nobody watches it anymore
24:55it's done uh well the other thing that came out was this claim by chloe fineman um it's now deleted
25:02uh the claim she put on tiktok saying that uh basically elon made her cry uh during uh his hosting
25:09of saturday night live but what's your take on that cry i don't know i'm not sure i mean i don't take
25:18saturday night lights last year's i think they made um you don't look silly in that show and he
25:24was prepared to be made silly so what the heck but i wouldn't advise him to go back on saturday night
25:29live at any time because it's nobody watches it anymore it's not important you know they're much
25:36i mean you want to see funny stuff there are a lot of just ordinary talk political talk shows that are
25:41funnier you know and uh so you know i'm watching this uh talk london talk tv the other night a few
25:49times and this uh james whale you know he's weird he just chases people off his program you know to
25:55go then they should show some program i don't talk to you go you know it's very funny you know and um
26:01it's it's very it's odd actually you know but people don't should be doing that but
26:05you know so and then i've said that like boring james is great i'm often on his show i think you
26:12and i we follow each other on these different platforms which which is quite fun so i was on
26:17talk last week as well he's great great character and basically what he was saying elon was very
26:21worried because he felt the sketch wasn't funny that that was the point and and what's uh what
26:26fineman was saying she said so she basically said that he was looking at her as though he's gonna
26:30far her from tesla is is how she felt but um uh i think that elon was just a little bit worried
26:36about that he was going to be exposed in this way with a sketch that he didn't know funny no no no no
26:42i mean everybody knows sad night live is not funny so all he's saying is he's not even it's not even
26:49interesting what elon said because everybody knows that you know but coming back to james whale you know
26:55i'm waiting to they call me quite regularly to give my opinion on something i'm waiting for james
27:00whale to say to me that i'm a stupid idiot i'm waiting because i'd like him to say that to me
27:07because he'll get a surprise if he did that to me well you say that i heard your brilliant idea
27:14once i was traveling you you contacted me about one of the interviews that you gave and i heard that
27:19interview and you you held your own uh very well in the various formats that you've had with people
27:24how's your experience been with the media over the last few days with the media yes
27:30well you know i have a lot of people today at two o'clock daily mail
27:37of england is wants to do the same interview and then uh at five o'clock um uh another one
27:47i have to it's hard to keep track of them all you know and so uh it's really just been because
27:54since the election you know or just leading up to the election and after the election but uh so
27:59people are very interested to know what elon proposes to do is he going to you know sort of
28:06fire people who desperately need their jobs and all that sort of stuff and i point out to them no no
28:10that wouldn't be elon's way so if they they find someone in a government post and the post is considered
28:15unnecessary they would cease to have that post after that person has moved on retired you know
28:21or something like that they wouldn't simply you know i know elon they wouldn't simply put somebody
28:26you know out of the job i mean they would all they would find alternative employment you know
28:32for that job and for that person and and so no no that you know and then are sensible they're not
28:39going to do any job cutting in a stupid way you know i mean they're very sensible unfortunately has
28:45this other chapter help him so you know you you can't run a proper business if you if you're known as
28:51some sort of dictator rogue boss or something your people have to love you you know if you if you're
28:58in a business you know and my experience with tesla and spacex and the various businesses we've
29:03elon's been involved in and kimble the people absolutely love it love my sons you know the
29:10employees i mean you know and speak of my sons so highly and all that sort of stuff you know so
29:15that's what you really need and they will do that with their new job with this new post that he said you
29:20know for sure and and it is fascinating as you say the sort of media not not just obviously the
29:25election but since you've been on the andrew eborn show that people love the uh the andrew and errol
29:30show it's it's gotta be good um what i love about it though is is doing live television means people
29:36can't edit you they can't represent you in a certain way what has been your experience of the interviews
29:41you've had well um i found that i'm i was getting prior to the election calls from times tv or something
29:53where they would sort of put words in my mouth you know that in other words they make a sort of that
30:01make some sort of point on the start of the interview that seemed as though it was coming from me
30:07where i was supposed to say yes or no and then if i said yes or no it was amounted to the same thing
30:13in other words what if i said yes it was their point was taken or if i said no their point was
30:18like and um i stopped that i immediately said hey hey stop stop you're not doing this you know can't do
30:24this and this woman um fly somebody other uh i mean she wouldn't she wouldn't stop she kept on and on
30:33and eventually i said to her look you're not putting words in my mouth lady you better stop what you're
30:38doing you see and um and she's she just went on and eventually uh she put the she's terminated the
30:45interview said i'm terminating this interview and then i had to get hold of them and say look
30:51this is not right what you've done here with this woman you know and then they did actually
30:55broadcast it so it is it's possible to see this interview but they took out her um um way of
31:02they made it more easy to watch and more reasonable and then i've also had okay and and then i had the
31:10bbc where um it was also a television interview and um they never gave me a word they simply carried on and
31:20on saying what they think i think and this man and this woman and i i i couldn't get a word in
31:28and then finally and and putting out this extremely um i suppose you could say anti-trump
31:36pro-stharma point of view you know and uh you know they're entirely i suppose but they never gave
31:45me a chance to say anything and then that was in and they said thanks a lot and bye and off they went
31:50and then i had to get hold of the bbc and say to them look you can't do this kind of thing what you've
31:56just done is completely unacceptable and and you know and unfortunately i don't know if it was live or
32:04not live i'm not sure i think it was live so i i'm wary of having an interview with the bbc
32:10you know well it is interesting i mean i heard your feed glover that was the person that the times
32:16radio and uh you and i spoke whilst i was in japan and i think it's a and you were very worried they
32:20were going to portray you in the wrong way in the end i think it was it was fine that the program that
32:24i saw is edited but but in terms of people watching you're now a seasoned contributor to many
32:31programs around the world what advice would you give to people being interviewed
32:35well you know it's important to prepare and i have people saying to me you know before i go on
32:42friends saying to me you should say this or do this or write down unfortunately interviews are quite
32:48good it's like you know you have these court cases say take a court case where somebody's accused of
32:55something and then everybody says oh he's that he's he or she's done you know he's done and then the
33:01lawyers and or people with more knowledge will say to you wait until it goes into court because once
33:08you go into court and it's one-on-one and the prosecutor or the defense attorney or lawyer is
33:15able to do questioning one-on-one with everybody listening then you see really what comes out and
33:22and so uh it's much different to what people's hope and what the conjecture was before and that this
33:30would be said or that would be said because ultimately under those circumstances the human
33:36psyche battles to you know come across with the sort of narrative they'd like to come across with
33:43and they they get caught out so again with these sort of interviews um you're best off uh talking
33:50about what you know and being as you know don't try and put across any anything you don't really know
33:58a lot about and and certainly you know be aware that you're going to be called out if you say
34:03something that's wrong that's it that's blatantly blatantly wrong and so you have to be aware of
34:10that and because they're going to say to you that's that's not true what you just said and you're going
34:14to be tongue-tied um after that you know and so that's why you've certainly never been tongue-tied in
34:21all the time we've had many many hours talking together which is always a an absolute joy uh
34:26errol a real pleasure thank you so much for coming back as i say the new andrew and errol show the a
34:31and d uh look forward to our next trip there next time okay thank you