- 8 months ago
With more than 400 aftershocks in Mandalay and surrounding areas, humanitarian efforts are ongoing almost a month since the 7.7 magnitude earthquake struck Myanmar. Join our guests as they share the extraordinary spirit of solidarity and humanity on the ground.
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00:00This is Awani Global with me, Naila Huda.
00:09And this week marks almost a month since Myanmar was struck by a massive 7.7 magnitude earthquake,
00:15killing thousands and worsening an already fragile humanitarian landscape marked by ongoing civil conflict.
00:21But at the same time, we're also seeing a rare moment for diplomacy with symbolic moves made by regional leaders,
00:29including Prime Minister of Malaysia, Anwar Ibrahim, who met with local Myanmar leaders in Thailand.
00:35But we want to see how this actually translates into creating more access for humanitarian groups and humanitarian efforts on the ground.
00:43And what are the needs that are being prioritised the most as of this moment?
00:48So joining us today to unpack the situation, we have two guests with first-hand insights from the ground.
00:53From within the heart of the response, we're joined by Nadia Khouri,
00:56Head of Delegation for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies IFRC in Myanmar.
01:03And also with us today, Lillian Phan, the Head of the Secretariat for the Malaysian Advisory Group on Myanmar,
01:09who's not new to this area.
01:10She's a veteran humanitarian with experience responding to crisis in Myanmar, Aceh and Haiti.
01:16Thank you so much to Nadia and Lillian for joining us today.
01:19I do want to start with Nadia.
01:21Nadia, I believe you've been to Mandalay and Sagain in the past week or so.
01:25Can you describe to us what the situation looks like on the ground?
01:30That's right.
01:30I was there in Mandalay and Sagain and then further down in Naypyidaw just last week.
01:37What really struck me is that there's quite a big difference in impact between the urban and rural areas.
01:43Mandalay is a very big city.
01:44And as we drove around, we would go in certain quarters where there would be damage in every 10 buildings or so.
01:52And then as we would go further south or further to the west, we would see entire wards and quarters just destroyed.
02:01So we've seen a lot of destruction, which is very visible in terms of the brick buildings,
02:06whether it's private infrastructure like homes, public infrastructure like schools, clinics and places of worship and religion.
02:15And there's a lot of damage that is not necessarily visible.
02:19And so some community members took me into their homes and then I could see the damage where, you know,
02:25a floor had collapsed or the stairs had been destroyed, which meant that these places were no longer safe for people to live.
02:32There's also a lot that can't be seen in terms of protection issues, particularly for women, the elderly and the young, the very young.
02:42And of course, the mental health issues cannot be seen.
02:45So there's this real urgency in terms of responding because there is a lot of need.
02:51A lot of people are sleeping out in makeshift camps or more formal camps.
02:57Some people are staying with host families.
02:59Some people are staying in monasteries and mosques and churches.
03:04And we are currently in the hot season in Myanmar.
03:09It's extremely hot.
03:10It's extremely humid.
03:12And we're just coming up towards the cyclone season and then the monsoon season.
03:16So we've had some unseasonal rain in the past week and it has really hit people very, very hard.
03:23So there's been physical challenges.
03:24I think many people have heard about these constant aftershocks that had happened in the hundreds in the past few weeks.
03:32The last big one that my teams had reported was just a couple of days ago.
03:37So it's stabilizing a little bit.
03:38But that was one big challenge in terms of infrastructure.
03:41Of course, in the immediate days, there was damage to roads, to bridges, to telecommunications infrastructure that is now being more or less resolved.
03:50It's now possible to fly from Yangon to Mandalay, which was not possible in the week after the earthquake due to damage.
03:57And it's also, as I mentioned, the physical constraints in terms of the heat and the rain.
04:05Now, we've had just incredible support from these wonderful volunteers of the Red Cross who've deployed from all over the country and joined the rescue efforts where they were needed.
04:16And a lot of women who are involved in this response, we've got incredible women leaders from within the broader IFRC and the Myanmar Red Cross, who are just essential to this response.
04:29We've put all of these efforts on board to respond despite these challenges.
04:34Lilian, you've worked in disaster zones in the past, Aceh and Haiti being some of them.
04:39So, hearing what Nadia had to say and also with what's been reported, how do you see the response in Myanmar?
04:46How does this compare to disaster zones in the past and taking into account, of course, the ongoing political climate in Myanmar?
04:55It's actually very stark, I think, what you see in terms of the inability to scale up right now.
05:02I think that is one of the most visible signs of the existing problems and restrictions that we're seeing in Myanmar.
05:11And it's not completely unusual.
05:12I mean, a lot of the areas I worked in before, including Myanmar, by doing Cyclone Nargis, where I worked with ASEAN, there was a block on getting international aid in.
05:21And that's where ASEAN came in and sort of played that role to be a facilitator and a bridge to convince the Myanmar military government at the time to allow ASEAN to play that role to coordinate the aid.
05:36That was challenging.
05:38But eventually what did happen was an opening up and a setting up of a coordination mechanism.
05:41I think what's happening now is exactly at that point where you can see that the aid that's getting through is whatever aid can get through is getting through.
05:52I think Nadia would be better placed to talk about the distribution that is possible on the ground, what's actually happening on the ground.
05:59But I do think that there's a lot more that should be coming in and a lot more that should be done in terms of coordination.
06:05So one of the critical things that happened, like ASEAN, for example, I think if we look at ASEAN, you know, we all know about this.
06:11Tsunami, but it happened in the context of, you know, four-decade conflict, right?
06:16And in fact, when the tsunami hit ASEAN, ASEAN was totally closed to the international community.
06:22There had been ongoing military operations and then a civil emergency and a real shutdown, right?
06:28That by, you know, the Indonesian government at the time.
06:32So there wasn't a lot of international presence there.
06:34And it actually took a very, you know, a real strategic and political decision by Jakarta to open up to the international community for aid and to put in a coordination mechanism, which would allow for the international community to come in, in a way that was not politicized, but could really deliver aid in the most, you know, effective way possible.
06:58And then in the meantime, they worked on the political issues as well, right?
07:02They started, you know, a peace dialogue, which eventually led to the signing of an MOU with the Free Archive Movement and the Jakarta government.
07:13In Haiti, there wasn't a civil conflict as such, but it was extremely weak, right?
07:17I mean, you had so many years of civil strife.
07:20You had, you know, a lot of gang violence that had been taking place, a lot of political issues, a very weakened government from, you know, already, actually for a very long time, you know, not even decades, but I would say centuries in Haiti.
07:35And that all these things, you know, factor in also, I think, not just in terms of the response, but actually also of the vulnerability.
07:43And I think that's critical.
07:44You know, if you look at Myanmar now, those areas, many of them that were affected by the earthquake, although they're not, you know, normally seen as conflict areas because they're not in the, you know, the borderlands, but actually they are conflict areas, a lot of them.
07:57Sagain, for example, there's been civil conflict going on, very intensive in certain parts of Sagain for more than, for almost a year now.
08:05And, you know, there's, there have been airstrikes in a lot of those places, including after the earthquake.
08:09It's a lot of the infrastructure, I would say also has been weakened, not just the physical infrastructure, but even, you know, social networks, the ability for communities to be able to respond.
08:21A lot of that gets weakened during a conflict, right?
08:24And I think we need to look at this in terms of both, you know, how conflict contributes to vulnerability, as well as how political conflict and, you know, this kind of deadlocks when it comes to, you know, political issues can complicate a response and definitely complicate coordination.
08:42So I think that's, you know, these are some of the issues that we're definitely seeing in Myanmar currently, as well.
08:47Yeah. Lillian, you pointed out a lot about the coordination mechanism, the coordination efforts, and you said Nadia would know best what's still lacking, how it actually is, like, affecting humanitarian efforts on the ground.
09:02Nadia, what do you think is still lacking in the coordination mechanism, or what are the gaps that still remain?
09:09And perhaps moving forward, what do you think are some major lessons that need to be learned in terms of the coordination mechanism?
09:15Nadia, there's several levels of coordination.
09:20There is a sort of state authority level of coordination, which is working in a way, and I believe that many state entities coordinate directly when they provide bilateral assistance.
09:33As in the case of Malaysia, as in the case of Malaysia, providing early assistance, providing field hospitals, there is that coordination mechanism that exists, and of course, through ASEAN and the AHA Center.
09:46Then there is the humanitarian coordination led by the United Nations OCHA agency, and that tries to bring in together all of the different humanitarian agencies that are operational at a national level,
10:01but also at a sub-national level, to make sure that we are using resources in the best way possible, that we are leveraging expertise from those who already have it, and of course, that we do not duplicate our efforts, but that we do certain exercises jointly.
10:18So, rapid needs assessments were done through a jointly coordinated effort of hundreds of different agencies to try and make sure that we were using resources effectively and to have maximum impact.
10:31Now, it's not always straightforward, and we know that coordination is challenging in times of crisis.
10:38In Myanmar, there's an additional, or there's additional layers of complexity.
10:42Lillian outlined a few of them.
10:44The other aspect to highlight is that in Myanmar, there's a huge amount of local solidarity and local actors, and it's just astounding.
10:52How fast people from all over the country, private donors, community members, neighbours, mobilised to be able to help people in need.
11:03It's really, really quite impressive.
11:06And many of those local actors may not be part of these more formalised coordination mechanisms.
11:12So, it means that it's very important that there's strong communication links to make sure that that coordination, however formal or informal, can happen for the benefit of an impactful humanitarian response for the affected community.
11:27Yeah, I know that's really inspiring to hear.
11:30I'm reminded of, you know, certain movements in Malaysia as well.
11:33We have seen, for example, Kita Jaga Kita movements arising during times of need, during the major floods in 2021 and 2022.
11:42Lillian, you've also, you know, worked on the ground, of course.
11:47Going on that note about community spirit, how do local civil society groups and community leaders factor into the response?
11:54I mean, we were talking a lot about, you know, the state-level response, international coordination efforts.
11:59But, you know, it's important to also point out local community efforts as well, especially in areas, as you say, that may face blockades that may not be accessible by international agencies.
12:12Yeah, I'm so glad we're coming to this issue because I do think it's one of the most critical things to understand about, I mean, I would say a lot of humanitarian responses.
12:21I mean, it's always communities, you know, local people who are the first responders, right?
12:25And I think this is one of the most critical things to understand because they're not usually part of, you know, sort of formal structures of aid coordination, but they really are the ones who respond first.
12:34They're the ones who will mobilize, you know, response as needed.
12:39And I think there's the added thing, of course, as well of, you know, the fact that aid was quite slow in getting in.
12:46It's always difficult in, I mean, an earthquake destroys infrastructure, right?
12:50It's, you know, it's always going to be difficult to find the swiftest possible response.
12:55And this happened in Haiti as well.
12:56I still remember when I first went to Haiti and then I saw the same thing happening in Mandalay and Sagaing, you know, and I think probably a naked or two.
13:04It's locals who started to try to escalate, you know, and to pull people out with their own hands, right?
13:11To literally get people out of the rubble, you know, literally lifting things brick by brick and, you know, clearing the debris themselves.
13:17And that's really devastating and heartbreaking to see.
13:20But at the same time, I think it points to the fact that, you know, people aren't going to wait around for aid, right?
13:24I mean, people will mobilize.
13:26Some of the first messages I got were from religious groups, right?
13:29I got messages from some of the groups, you know, links to monasteries.
13:34I got messages from, you know, some of the Muslim groups who had been mobilizing from Yangon to try to get aid into, you know, Mandalay.
13:42And there was a terrible situation as well, of course, where so many mosques, you know, the earthquake happened literally in the middle of the Jumaat prayers.
13:50And a lot of people died because the masjids, you know, so many masjids collapsed on them.
13:55So there was a huge mobilization by the Myanmar Muslim community as well.
13:59You know, there are links.
14:00I know a lot of the leaders.
14:02And they were mobilizing and, you know, asking how we can support here from Malaysia.
14:05So that was the first response that, you know, and the first messages that we were getting here as well were messages of, you know, local communities.
14:14And even here, the migrant community, the Myanmar migrant community, they started mobilizing immediately, immediately, right?
14:19And, you know, from whichever group, whether it was, you know, even groups who weren't directly affected in their locations, like the Kachin and, you know, the Rakhine, they were all mobilizing.
14:28And I think that does show, I think, the level of, you know, solidarity and ingenuity as well, because I think that the innovations that the Myanmar local groups and civil society have developed over the years in a difficult operating environment is really something to be commended as well.
14:50And I would say that, you know, even from my experience doing Nargis, some of the most incredible groups that we saw who were really affected going out into the Delta area and mobilizing were really sort of, you know, unexpected groups, right?
15:02It wasn't just like a local NGO that had a formal kind of established structure.
15:07It was like the free funeral service, right?
15:09And, you know, these volunteers and all kinds of groups that were out there and basically were just, you know, like associations of different types of associations of every walk of life.
15:21And some of them, just because they had the networks, they had the logistics, they were able to connect, you know, with, you know, suppliers and delivery, you know, they had a bit of a pipeline and doing something else.
15:32They just mobilized, right?
15:33Whoever was able to do anything did something.
15:35And that, I think, is a beautiful thing.
15:37They've got a bit more coordinated as well.
15:39I mean, there's something now that's emerged.
15:41You know, one of them is the Myanmar Emergency Response Coordination Unit, MERCU, and they're, you know, a lot of them are people who've actually been involved from the Myanmar side on, at the local level, mobilization of humanitarian response since Nargis.
15:57So, involved in Nargis local response, involved in, you know, various disaster responses, and they're linked to groups that are, you know, mobilizing on the ground.
16:05They're linked to a lot of the women's organizations, you know, groups that are looking at the women and children, groups that are looking at disabilities, for example, and all of that.
16:13And they're trying to do information sharing coordination.
16:15So, I think I was already having some conversations as well with, you know, Mercy Malaysia and others about how that group can link in more, whether it's like when Nadia was saying, you know, the informal channels are more formalized channels of information sharing and communication.
16:27So, I do think there's a lot of hope, and I do think that that's one of the most promising things that can come out of this.
16:33It's really building that, you know, the strength and resilience of those networks, because they are going to be first responders no matter what, right?
16:41And it has to complement, basically, whatever other, you know, forms of response will be present.
16:47Yeah, just quickly on that note, Nadia, what was it like to see this community spirit in action?
16:52You know, this time of the year, we're meant to see local communities gathering to celebrate the Tingya New Year, but instead they're gathering at a time of disaster.
17:02What was it like to see it in action?
17:05Well, the community spirit is extremely strong, as Lillian also explained.
17:11Neighbours will help one another.
17:13I went to a camp in Amarapura, which is just slightly southwest of Mandalay City.
17:19And it was a camp that what they told me was that it had been built by a single individual who had donated tents to allow people to live.
17:34He had donated toilets so that people had some sanitation and a water pumping system, as well as the tanks.
17:41And there were some 700 people living in this football pitch that had been turned into a camp with tarpaulins and tents.
17:51And people who had lived just next to that camp still had their houses more or less there, but, you know, quite badly damaged.
18:01But whatever systems they still had available, whether it was a latrine or water pumps that could transfer water to the camp, they made that available to help other people.
18:14So themselves being affected, themselves having lost belongings and possibly relatives, were still finding ways to help one another.
18:22And then there's the other aspect of, you know, these organizations, some of which, like the Myanmar Red Cross is a formally established organization, but they've got branches and volunteers and, you know, every township of affected by these earthquakes.
18:37And so they rapidly engage and get involved.
18:42But let's just say for a lot of the people involved in the response, there was no festival time, nothing shut down, the assistance continues.
18:51So this is a time that normally, you know, state institutions close, the banks close, offices close, and people travel to see their relatives.
19:01It's a time of joy.
19:02It's a time of renewal, and it's a time of, you know, fun.
19:07It's a water festival.
19:08People spray water everywhere, and that did not happen this year.
19:14People were extremely busy trying to respond as fast as they could to people who had urgent, urgent needs.
19:21So I was, in fact, in Mandalay, Zagayan and Naypyidore during the holiday period, and certain shops were closed.
19:30It was definitely more challenging to have access to certain services, like banking services.
19:35But people were out there working, delivering, trucks were going in and out.
19:40So it was a challenging time, but people did whatever they could to keep the action going to support those in need.
19:47No, it's interesting to hear what's happening on the more individual and community level.
19:52But I do want to go back to that note on international coordination efforts and a little bit about diplomacy as well.
20:00Because perhaps what we're seeing now is that there is perhaps a pathway or a space for diplomacy.
20:10When we see, especially with Prime Minister of Malaysia, Anwar Ibrahim, he recently made contact with both the Junta and the NUG during his visit to Thailand.
20:20And this did lead to a temporary ceasefire.
20:26Lillian, from your perspective, how do you see this diplomatic opening for humanitarian actors on the ground?
20:32Perhaps temporary, but to what extent did this help?
20:36Thank you, Naila.
20:40I think that we need to be cognizant of the fact that the declaration of unilateral ceasefires, these were unilateral ceasefires, not a blanket ceasefire.
20:51I think on the one hand, it's very symbolically important.
20:54And they've been extensions of that.
20:56And I think that, you know, our Honourable Prime Minister has played a role in encouraging the extensions and expansion of those ceasefire declarations.
21:06I do think, however, that we also seem to be quite clear that it hasn't led to false ceasefires, even in the earthquake affected areas.
21:15And I think what's really important is the fact that because these are unilateral ceasefires, which basically means there hasn't been, you know, any sort of sitting down at the table and negotiating of terms upon which the ceasefire can rest.
21:29And therefore, there's no way to monitor whether the ceasefire has been violated by this actor or that actor or the claims that it's been, you know, violated.
21:38So what we are seeing is ongoing airstrikes, I think, including actually in areas that are immediately within the earthquake zones, which was supposed to be ceasefire areas, but at the same time, also wider ongoing violence in terms of airstrikes, but also in terms of, you know, resistance, fighting and taking over of certain territories, right?
22:05So, which happened as well in Sagain, not in an earthquake area, but in Sagain State, a bit further north, there was a PDF, the People's Defence Forces, that took over the area of Indore, which is actually in Sagain.
22:18And that happened after the earthquake. And they've been fighting there for about eight months.
22:22But I think, you know, I mean, the reports that we've been seeing as well, and again, you know, everything needs verification, but without a monitoring mechanism, you can't really do independent verification.
22:30But there are reports that there have been actually an increase in airstrikes, including in earthquake areas.
22:39The numbers that we start seeing from Sagain, you know, are about like 53 airstrikes in Sagain, just in March.
22:47And that, in fact, in Mandalay, you know, the entire region, there have been more incidents of, you know, human rights violations than actually have been seen in the long time.
22:58So I think we need to be aware of this. And I think that, you know, it's not the role necessarily of the humanitarian actors on the ground trying to deliver aid to be able to monitor this.
23:09You need a special mechanism to be able to do that. And you do need, and I think that the opening in the diplomacy side is the fact that it's now in the ASEAN conversation,
23:18that the ASEAN chair, right, the Prime Minister of Malaysia, which is the ASEAN chair, has publicly spoken to both sides, right?
23:27The SAC, you know, chairman, as well as the Prime Minister of the National Unity Government, which is the resistance.
23:34And I think that it's very important that that was made, that that was done, you know, the conversation with both sides.
23:41And there's been ongoing, you know, conversations that have been happening, you know, behind the scenes.
23:47But I think that now it's about trying to see whether there is any appetite for an actual ceasefire that can be monitored,
23:54terms that can be agreed to and an actual mechanism to be able to really monitor that ceasefire and, you know, extend it and hold parties accountable when the ceasefire is broken, right?
24:07And it has to be on both sides. So I'm hoping that we can see some traction on that, but it can't stay as unilateral ceasefires.
24:15I think this is the key message.
24:16Yeah, for sure. Just quickly, before we wrap things up, on that note about international coordination, international efforts,
24:25Nadia, how do you see the international community supporting the ongoing efforts?
24:30What is the priority needs as of now?
24:34Priority needs, we can divide a little bit according to category.
24:38There's the immediate response needs. People need to have shelter.
24:44People need to have food, water, access to health care, particularly for damage sustained during the earthquake.
24:52They'll need to have access to cash.
24:54Many people who are impacted might be middle class people who have cars and homes and just lost everything,
25:02including access to basic cooking equipment.
25:04So all of these aspects are needed for people to be able to have a minimum of dignity while they continue.
25:12And then there's the recovery phase. People want to get on with their lives and rebuild their lives.
25:19So we want to support them to recover, rebuild and stabilize because people want to have jobs and work.
25:27So part of that will be working with communities to recover their livelihoods, to provide additional opportunities,
25:34but also help to rehabilitate community level infrastructure where it's needed, schools, clinics, anything that helps a community.
25:45In terms of the international support we've received, or we're very grateful to have received,
25:52important amounts of international and regional support.
25:56We had four flights come in through a humanitarian air bridge from Kuala Lumpur in the past few days,
26:03bringing in over 100 metric tons of relief items, hygiene items, shelter items, tents,
26:11including some from the Malaysian Red Crescent Society.
26:15And there is more support that's needed.
26:18A lot of it, though, would be best spent in cash.
26:23I think there's a big need for relief items in the initial phase, but later on, it's about cash and providing cash support.
26:31So, again, lots of regional and international solidarity.
26:35And we greatly, greatly appreciate the generosity of those who have been supporting,
26:39not just ourselves as IFRC, but many other organizations.
26:43And we are looking to a response for at least two years,
26:48because that's how long we estimate that it will need to respond to this huge scale of damage
26:54on top of the pre-existing multi-sectoral needs that we've been seeing in Myanmar.
27:00Thank you so much to Nadia and Lilian for joining us today
27:03and for sharing some of the insights, critical insights on what's been happening on the ground
27:07and what's needed, especially for those who need it the most.
27:12Thank you once again.
27:13That's all for Awani Global this week with me, Nala Huda.
27:16We'll see you again another time.
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