- 8 months ago
Champions Trophy 2025: In an exclusive interview with India Today, Sunil Gavaskar talked about how Virat Kohli countered the Pakistani spinners in Dubai after struggling against the likes of Adil Rashid and Rishad Hossain.
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00:00Good evening, welcome to Battle of Champions. They often say that victory tastes sweeter the day after
00:07because you know you have time to reflect, you look back at the performance. Is that the feeling that you're having?
00:13Is it tasting sweet? I know you're yet to have your supper, but before that?
00:18Yes, it is a very sweet feeling, no question about it. Because you know this kind of a performance, an all-round performance
00:25batting-wise, fielding-wise, captaincy-wise, every sort of aspect and every facet of the game
00:30which way you've dominated an opposition like Pakistan, it certainly makes you feel a lot better.
00:36A lot more hopeful, a lot more optimistic about the fact that this Champions Trophy which we won 12 years ago
00:43can come back home.
00:44Alright, we spoke yesterday about the fact that Virat loves playing against Pakistan
00:49but what I really want you to tell us is the one area of concern for him was playing against Pena
00:55especially the one that takes the ball away. Abrar, though he can spin both ways, could take the ball away from Virat.
01:01What is it that he did differently to what was happening when he was facing an Adil Rashid or Rashad that he faced in Bangladesh?
01:08I think he was playing mainly of the back foot, so watching where the ball was turning and then playing accordingly.
01:15Also, I think you've got to say that Abrar, he bowled that brilliant delivery to get rid of Shubman Gill
01:20but he wasn't a real big turner of the ball like we saw with Rashad or Adil Rashid.
01:25So that was also a bit of a help. But by playing on the back foot, he was on a slow pitch.
01:30You can't really play on the back foot, in case the ball flipper comes in, you could be in trouble.
01:34So, just giving himself just that little bit of time to make that late adjustment to whatever the pitch was doing
01:42was a very, very big reason for him playing comfortably.
01:47At the end of the day, you'll have a look at what Abrar bowled. I think he gave away only 28 runs in his 10 overs.
01:53So, it just tells you that he also had a hold on the Indian Barrels.
01:58Since we're talking about Abrar, he did have that gesture to do when he got Shubman's wicket.
02:04Then we saw Shahenshah Fridi bowling wide deliveries towards the end.
02:09Probably trying to ensure that Virat doesn't get to his 100.
02:13So, while there may not have been any edge in terms of performance, it was a one-sided contest.
02:17The verbals and the edge on the otherwise that you see in India, Pakistan was still there.
02:22It will be. It will be always there. Because I think there's always the history.
02:26And therefore, with that history, there will always be that little edge to any contest between India and Pakistan.
02:33Any sport. Doesn't have to be cricket. Hockey, you take it. It will always be there.
02:38And no team, particularly when they know that they are not going to go on to win,
02:43they do not want a record to be set against them. A record of most 100s. A record of most 5 wickets.
02:48A record of maybe scoring the least number of runs themselves.
02:53Or the opposition scoring the maximum runs. These are all records that you don't want against your name.
03:00And therefore, I think that attempt was made to try and go a little bit wide so that Kohli doesn't get a 100.
03:05So, it should not look as if Kohli getting a 90 is okay. Kohli getting a 100 is a big difference.
03:10Kohli getting a 100 against Pakistan. So, that's what they didn't want.
03:14Just a word on the rest of the support cast. I know the headlines have been grabbed by Virat Kohli and it should be got that 100.
03:20But the knock played by Shreyas Iyer. The knock played by Shubman Gill.
03:25Fantastic. Because that's exactly what you wanted. At that stage, if Pakistan had got a few early wickets,
03:30say for example, if India had lost 3 wickets before they were 100, there would be a little bit of tension, little bit of pressure.
03:35And because they did not lose, because of that partnership, that is the reason why it was an easy win in the end.
03:42And you've got to give 100% credit to everybody. All the bowlers, all the batters.
03:48Everybody was absolutely fantastic as far as the Indian win was concerned.
03:52And that is the reason it was an all-round team effort which got India over the rope.
03:58Alright. Let's take a look at where the tournament stands at the moment.
04:02India, of course, have won both their games. Many are saying that they are probably the best team in the tournament.
04:07We've seen some good performances from New Zealand as well as Australia.
04:11But here's the scenario. And what math tells us that it's still not a guarantee that India have qualified for the semi-final.
04:20You can look at the math. That's because you could have a scenario where New Zealand could have won two games.
04:25Bangladesh could have also won two games. And then it comes down to the net run rate.
04:29And similarly, even though Pakistan have lost their two matches, it's still not guaranteed that they are out.
04:34They are still waiting for a few other results to go their way.
04:37So, there is an outside chance that Pakistan can do it as well.
04:40So, those are the scenarios that you can see on your screens which is telling you mathematically everyone is still alive.
04:46Even though I'm giving those probabilities to our viewers, I'm also thinking about it in my head.
04:52And saying that if that was to happen, then probably pigs could also fly.
04:56You could say that. Because look, for Bangladesh to beat New Zealand, the way New Zealand is playing in recent times, will take something special.
05:04Because New Zealand having beaten India in India did well.
05:08I know England beat them. But in the limited overs matches, they did well.
05:12They are combining well. Their fielding has been always outstanding.
05:15They have got the experience of Kane Williamson.
05:18The young Achin Ravindra, he didn't play in the first game because of the injury.
05:22When he comes back, they have got a very good batting line-up.
05:25They have also got the kind of batting depth that India has.
05:28And which is always a big plus. They have also got the bowling options.
05:31You know, if you have five, six bowlers, five bowlers are necessary.
05:34If you have six bowling options, that makes a big difference.
05:37Why did Pakistan suffer?
05:39They did not have a quality No. 5 bowler with the greatest of respect to Khushneel.
05:43He is not going to be a No. 5 bowler in any team.
05:47So, I think that is where India and New Zealand are very, very good.
05:52Australia also bat deep. They don't have the bowling.
05:55But because they bat deep, they can chase 350.
05:58Alright. India, of course, as we have said, are looking very good in this tournament.
06:02And those permutation combinations tell you that they haven't made the semi-final yet.
06:06But then it's only a formality before they are officially into the semi-final after a game or two.
06:12Anyway, let's now look at Pakistan.
06:15We have listed a few factors that has probably contributed to the decline of Pakistan cricket.
06:21If you could think of one or two reasons why there is daylight between India and Pakistan at the moment.
06:26Well, I think in a game of cricket, you need to get off to a good start.
06:32Batting or bowling.
06:34So, Pakistan's opening batting, they don't have a good solid opening pair at the moment.
06:39Which is the reason why they are not getting off to the kind of start in the first 10 overs.
06:43Or even first 15 overs, that is so essential.
06:46As far as the bowling is concerned as well, they have got quality bowlers in Naseem Shah and Shaheen Shah Afridi.
06:53But when was the last time that both of them have bowled winning spells at the start?
06:58I am talking about in the first 10 overs, they have taken 3-4 wickets and put the opposition completely on the back foot.
07:03That hasn't happened for a long time.
07:05So, while people in Pakistan and maybe those who love watching him bat are pointing a finger at Babar Azam.
07:12I think a question should be asked about their bowling attack as well.
07:15Also, the fact that they don't have top quality spinners.
07:18Let's not even go into the fact that Shaheen Shah Afridi and Naseem Shah, when you look at them,
07:24are nowhere close to Imran Khan, Waseem Akram and Waqar Yunus as a new ball attack.
07:28And Aqib Javed, their current coach, he was their fourth guy.
07:31So, they had four top quality bowlers plus Abdul Qadir coming into the ball, Iqbal, Qasim, Tausif Ahmad.
07:36So, they had a very well-balanced attack.
07:39Later, Sakleen Mushtaq, Mushtaq Ahmed.
07:41So, all these guys were there but that's not what we see with the Pakistan team now.
07:46Which is the reason why they are struggling with both bat and ball.
07:50Okay, you were talking about the fact that Pakistan has been continuing to play these bowlers.
07:56I mean, the only logical reason you can look at is probably lack of bench strength.
08:01Lack of resources to really fill those spots.
08:03And I'm now looking at this Indian team and wondering that this is an Indian team
08:08which does not have Ruturaj Gaikwad, Ishan Kishan, Rinku Singh, Tilak, Abhishek, Jaiswal.
08:18I forget 11, they can't even make the squad.
08:20I mean, is it fair to say that if India were to field B teams, C teams,
08:24they might give Pakistan a run for their money?
08:26I think a B team, certainly. I'm not too sure about the C team.
08:28A B team would be very, very hard for Pakistan.
08:31A current Pakistan team to beat in the kind of form that they are in now.
08:36So, do you think that's the big difference?
08:38Like India has a lot of bench strength and Pakistan doesn't.
08:40They have to go back to Naseem, they have to go back to Ashain Shah.
08:43Yes, I think so. And I think, which is surprising.
08:46Because, you know, Pakistan has always had natural talent.
08:50I mean, natural in the sense, may not be always what you would say technically correct.
08:57But just the talent of the understanding of bat and ball.
09:01You know, which they had. When you look at Inzamamul Haq, for example.
09:05You look at his stance and all that. You would never recommend that kind of a stance
09:09or that kind of a thing to another young batter.
09:11But what he had great temperament.
09:13So, with that temperament, he would make up for any technical shortcoming that he had.
09:19So, I think that is surprising that Pakistan has not been able to produce that.
09:24Despite the fact that they have also got the Pakistan Super League, PSL.
09:27And, you know, how has India got so many young stars coming through?
09:32It's because of the Indian Premier League.
09:35And from that Indian Premier League, there have been a lot of people
09:38who have gone on to the Ranji Trophy and then on to play for India.
09:41So, that is something that maybe, you know, Pakistan cricket will have to look at.
09:46Why they are not getting the kind of bench strength that used to be pretty regular in the earlier days.
09:51One is the bench strength.
09:53Do you think the other factor that really highlights the stark contrast between two teams is the batting approach?
09:59Could you make sense of what really transpired when Pakistan were batting,
10:03when Rizwan was batting, Shaud was there with him.
10:06Did you get a feeling that they were trying to get to a safe total rather than a winning total?
10:10And that's the difference between the two teams.
10:12Could well have been, you know.
10:14Hard to know what the tactics discussed in the Pakistan change room would have been.
10:18But the first ball that Rizwan, the captain, came and he hit it for a boundary,
10:22straight away you thought, aha, now there will be a little change in approach.
10:25Because till then it was just about docking the ball, taking a single, you know.
10:28And so, we were having two runs and over, three runs and over.
10:31And before they knew it, with the spinners, Indian spinners bowling,
10:35you know, the overs were going because Indian spinners were bowling and finishing overs in one and a half, two minutes.
10:40So, therefore, it was just a little bit of a surprise that nothing really was tried.
10:45That said, I think we've also got to give credit to the Indian bowlers for the way they bowled.
10:49Because they might have had the intent in their minds, the Pakistani batters,
10:54but they were not allowed to follow up on that intent by some excellent bowling,
10:58excellent field placing, captaincy was absolutely top class.
11:01So, I think that's where Pakistan certainly found that they were really pinned to the wall, pinned to the side screen.
11:07And finally, before I let you go, I mean, in cricketing terms, India far better than Pakistan.
11:12But there's one area where I think Pakistan's been better.
11:15And that's their ability to take a joke on them.
11:18Because I've been going through social media.
11:20And, you know, the kind of self-deprecating jokes that you find by Pakistani experts, Pakistani fans on their team.
11:27But somewhere, I mean, you know, you kind of as a lover of cricket,
11:31also realize that a healthy Pakistan team is good for that rivalry, India-Pakistan.
11:37Look, I think, like I said, naturally talented.
11:40They used to be at one stage, if you look for natural talent, natural ability, you would say West Indies.
11:47And after that, say in the mid-70s onwards, when I started to play cricket,
11:53you saw that natural talent, you know, being there in Pakistan.
11:57And so, just like we want the West Indies to always be very competitive,
12:02you also want Pakistan to be very competitive.
12:05Because world cricket needs that.
12:06World cricket needs teams that play with flair.
12:09Pakistan has a flair.
12:11West Indies have a flair.
12:12People want to come and enjoy watching them play.
12:15Because they give you something out of the ordinary.
12:18Sometimes, you know, real, you know, quick delivery.
12:20Sometimes, you know, an incredible cover drive.
12:22Sometimes, you know, just the flick.
12:24Like Babur played that, you know, I think his first boundary yesterday was that drive through mid-wicket.
12:29What a lovely drive.
12:30I mean, as a cricket, you know, enthusiast, it doesn't matter.
12:35You just felt so good because it was so perfectly done.
12:38It's the most difficult shot to play, that mid-wicket drive.
12:40You can play this, you can play the extra cover drive.
12:42But this drive, where you close the face of the bat at the last moment and get it between mid-on and mid-wicket.
12:47Oh, brilliant.
12:48So, that's what I mean.
12:49You want to see these glimpses.
12:51You don't want to see these glimpses against India, maybe.
12:54But certainly, you want to see these glimpses, you know, against other teams.
12:59Because that is what world cricket needs.
13:01Okay, we're going to dig deep and really find out why those glimpses are missing.
13:04Why does that flair that Mr. Gavaskar spoke about missing?
13:08Because we're going to be heading to Pakistan.
13:10Our next show, Battle of Champions, will come to you live from Pakistan.
13:13Mr. Gavaskar will join us, but he'll have to join us, obviously, via link.
13:18Because he's not travelling there.
13:19But look forward to your company, Sai bhai, throughout this tournament.
13:22And that's all that we have on this particular broadcast.
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