00:00And the date arrived, January 10th, and today, at noon,
00:05Nicolás Maduro is going to assume his third term in office.
00:09Terms that last six years.
00:11That is, in principle, he is going to have six more years ahead of him.
00:18He's been in power for 12 years now.
00:21And of course, the eyes of the world are on Venezuela
00:24because not only is this going to happen, but also, in principle,
00:29Edmundo González Urrutia would return to his country
00:32after being exiled since September
00:36and after having traveled part of Latin America, among others,
00:39having come here to Argentina last Saturday.
00:43These images were given when the national government,
00:46headed by Javier Milet, received him in Casa Rosada.
00:50They went out to the balcony and there he showed his support
00:54to the opposing leader.
00:58Let's also remember that since a month ago,
01:02last January 8th, a month ago,
01:05an Argentinean has been arrested.
01:07We're talking about Gendarme Nahuel Gallo,
01:13who is being held in a place where it's not clear what it is.
01:18There have been videos by the government of Nicolás Maduro
01:23that are supposed to be a life test.
01:26And we are in communication with Marcelo Crovato,
01:31who is a former Argentinean political prisoner
01:34who has been in a prison in Venezuela.
01:38Marcelo, good morning.
01:40What can you tell us about your days during that captivity?
01:46Hello, good morning.
01:48Well, nothing funny,
01:51and I think Nahuel must be even worse than me
01:54because right now the regime has raised a lot of repression
02:00and, in addition to everything, he is accused of an attempt to murder.
02:07In my case, obviously, I was accused of leading the protests
02:11and they ended up calling me a terrorist,
02:13but because Nahuel is worse than me.
02:15You observed, I imagine, the images at the time.
02:18Did it give you any kind of indication
02:21of something that you would have recognized?
02:27Well, what I could see is that Nahuel is in a common prison,
02:31not in a clandestine detention center,
02:33which is something very good for him.
02:35I was sure that he should be in a clandestine detention center
02:38and that would be terrible because there is no right there.
02:42At least there are many people who are watching him
02:44and disappearing him is not going to be that easy.
02:47The conditions are tough in those prisons.
02:50The government has control.
02:52There are two types of prisons,
02:54where the prisoners have control
02:56and another where the government has control.
03:00Let's say that, among other things, it could be worse.
03:03I was afraid that he would be in a clandestine detention center
03:05and, in that case, we could practically say goodbye to him
03:07until he could be rescued.
03:10Well, and beyond this situation, what you have experienced,
03:14what you imagine Nahuel may be experiencing,
03:18what is your vision of what may happen on this day
03:21where he is going to assume for the third time, as we said, Nicolás Maduro?
03:27Unfortunately, in my opinion, nothing is going to happen
03:30because to get a criminal out of Nicolás Maduro's clutches,
03:33the force of the weapons is needed.
03:35And there are none, and there is no intention of using them.
03:38All Venezuelan politicians have always advocated
03:41for a negotiated, conversed solution,
03:44but one cannot negotiate with someone
03:46whose morale is at the level of Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin.
03:51So, if they are not going to get him out by force,
03:53I don't know how they are going to get him out.
03:55And, therefore, evidently, nothing is going to happen today.
03:58What is going to happen later,
04:00that events can be unleashed,
04:02yes, it is always possible.
04:04But today, absolutely nothing was to be expected.
04:06Maduro is going to be sentenced
04:08for a new and illegitimate six-year period.
04:11But the illegitimate is the previous period
04:14and the post-previous period as well.
04:16This comes from a coup d'état that they gave in 1999
04:21by substituting the Constitution in an illegitimate way.
04:24From then on, everything is illegitimate in them.
04:27Of course, the truth is that this last election,
04:29in the eyes of the world,
04:31has been, if you will, the most scandalous,
04:33in terms of, well, the international request
04:39that the files be delivered,
04:41this that has not happened.
04:43Well, what we already know from memory.
04:45How are your days here in Argentina?
04:48How do you live it?
04:50Oh, sorry, there in Spain.
04:52How do you live it, being one of the
04:54about 8 million Venezuelans
04:56who had to leave their country?
04:59Look, I live them thinking
05:01when I can return to Argentina.
05:03I miss it a lot and I hope to return.
05:06I had to go because of the threats of Chavismo
05:08when Cristina won
05:10and because I made a lot of opposition to her
05:13from the media.
05:15I was in the United Nations presenting the case.
05:17I was in the International Criminal Court
05:20and I had a very hard cross
05:22that I had in the program of Novarese
05:24with Alicia Castro.
05:26She threatened me, God gave me hair several times
05:28and in the last one she said,
05:30now that there is a government friend in Argentina,
05:32we are going to settle accounts with those who are rotting there.
05:34I don't know if it was with me directly or not,
05:36but because of the doubts, I ran away.
05:38I didn't need to find out.
05:40And now that the political winds have changed,
05:43your idea would be to return to the country?
05:45Argentina, I mean.
05:47Of course, I dream of returning to Argentina.
05:50I miss it a lot.
05:52It is my beloved land
05:54and I will be there again, without a doubt.
05:57How did you experience this day yesterday,
05:59the day of the protest
06:01called by María Corina Machado in Spain?
06:04There was a lot of activity here,
06:06in many places.
06:08I am even in a very small town
06:10and there was a concentration of Venezuelans
06:12to support the protest of María Corina.
06:14Of course, people lived the arrest
06:16or the kidnapping of María Corina very hard.
06:18Although there are a million confusing incidents,
06:20the truth is that we do not know what happened,
06:22how it happened, or why it happened.
06:24And there are still more questions than certainties
06:26in everything that has happened.
06:28And I think it is very important
06:30and there are still more questions than certainties
06:32in everything that happened yesterday.
06:34And what reading do you have of that episode?
06:36Beyond the confusion,
06:38what reading do you have of this episode?
06:40Beyond the confusion,
06:42which is evidently the central thing, right?
06:46The first thing that surprised me
06:48is the failure in its security system,
06:50because they grabbed it very easily.
06:52I can think of many things
06:54that could be done to protect it
06:56at the exit.
06:58And then that video that came out,
07:00which at first I thought
07:02was artificial intelligence,
07:04then a friend, a medical specialist,
07:06it was not done with artificial intelligence.
07:08it was not done with artificial intelligence.
07:10So I think it may be that,
07:12as they said,
07:14they forced her to record some videos
07:16while she was detained.
07:18Well, maybe she was trying to send a message
07:20in those videos indicating
07:22that she was not recording them by her own will.
07:24Apparently saying
07:26something about the wallet,
07:28which seemed absurd to me.
07:30It reminded me of the American pilot
07:32who in Vietnam,
07:34in a press conference in Vietnam in the north,
07:36said that they were treating him well
07:38and that the United States was doing very badly
07:40in getting into that war,
07:42and yet, with his eyes blinking,
07:44the Morse code was transmitted as torture.
07:46I think it was ...
07:48There are many inconsistencies in that video
07:50and maybe María Colina wanted to warn that.
07:52Surely, over time,
07:54we will find out,
07:56and we will also listen to her today
07:58because she promised to give explanations
08:00about what happened.
08:02Thank you very much for your time, Marcelo.
08:06Have a good day.
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