Bureaucrat who speaks his mind

Brut India

Former bureaucrat and author of “Encounters with Politicians” Anil Swarup revealed the workings of the BJP and Congress governments to Brut.

Transcript

00:00The Prime Minister himself had to stand up and say,

00:02Why aren't you speaking?

00:04That was some sort of a signal

00:06that probably

00:08everyone was not as free to speak

00:10as they were before.

00:12The messaging started happening

00:14that critical comments

00:16against the government

00:18even in meeting were not being welcomed.

00:24We come to 2014.

00:26So we've had 3 years where

00:28no files were moving,

00:30the media was talking about scams

00:32and enter Prime Minister Modi.

00:34Do you think that one of the things

00:36that he did when he came in was

00:38empower bureaucracy,

00:40listen to bureaucrats and secretaries around him?

00:42He interacted with the bureaucracy

00:44so intensively

00:46and he was so receptive

00:48to begin with.

00:50We used to have quarterly tea meetings

00:52with all the secretaries sitting there

00:54and they were free to air their view.

00:56All the secretaries of the government of India

00:58would meet the Prime Minister

01:00and were free to speak to him.

01:02At an informal setting at his residence

01:04over, I would technically call it a cup of tea

01:06but it was much more than a cup of tea.

01:08We had a great time then.

01:10Everyone spoke.

01:12Not only that, even during the meetings

01:14he encouraged people to talk,

01:16officers to talk and they did speak

01:18and the government benefitted out of it.

01:20See, here was a Prime Minister

01:22who realised the fact that each one of us

01:24was in a silo. He set up

01:26secretaries groups where we were discussing

01:28issues well beyond our domain

01:30and we came up with solutions.

01:32Many of them were adopted.

01:34We made presentations.

01:36Fairly formal, stoke informal

01:38setting where everyone

01:40came up and spoke.

01:42To begin with it was absolutely amazing.

01:44It was incredible that it was happening.

01:46But it changed after some point.

01:48In my perception it changed because

01:50I, after demonetisation

01:52something happened.

01:54What happened I don't know. Why it happened I don't know.

01:56But I did feel that the

01:58free communication that existed

02:00between us and the Prime Minister

02:02free communication that

02:04existed in meetings

02:06and this was evidenced by a very

02:08interesting tea session that we had.

02:10The usual tea session. I distinctly remember

02:12the protocol was that the

02:14cabinet secretaries spoke

02:16and then all secretaries spoke.

02:18One after the other.

02:20This particular after demonetisation

02:22I don't know how many months after that

02:24we had

02:26cabinet secretaries speak up and

02:28thereafter for almost a minute

02:30no secretaries spoke up.

02:32And the Prime Minister himself had to stand up and say

02:34aap log bol kyun nahi rahe hain.

02:36That was some sort of a signal

02:38that probably

02:40everyone was not as free

02:42to speak as they were before

02:44and then it gradually

02:46the messaging started happening

02:48that critical

02:50comments against the

02:52government even in meeting were not being

02:54welcomed. So almost

02:56everyone saying yes to everything.

02:58So that I think was not good for the government

03:00for this very government which did

03:02so wonderfully well in the first

03:04two and a half years that they were there

03:06so open, so receptive

03:08so outgoing

03:10and it gradually

03:12clamped up and I could perceive it

03:14because I used to discuss with my

03:16colleagues, my other secretaries

03:18outside they had a different view

03:20inside they didn't speak up.

03:22It was not good for the government.

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