Society cannot be better than the individual || Acharya Prashant, with O.P. Jindal University (2022)

Acharya Prashant

Video Information: 24.05.2022, Greater Noida  Context:  ~Is society more important than the individual? ~Why is individual vs society important? ~Why society is important in the life of the individual? ~What is it called when the individual is more important than society? ~ What is the meaning of individual? ~ Are there anything that we can say Individual?  Music Credits: Milind Date ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Transcript

00:00Fascinating session, I'm looking forward to the insights, the learning, the wisdom that

00:14we will all share, and of course, mostly coming from Acharya Ji.

00:20Let me take this opportunity to welcome Acharya Prashant, who is a powerful voice of socio-spiritual

00:28awakening in today's world.

00:31He's an acclaimed Vedanta exegete and author of over 80 books, including the national bestseller

00:40Karma, Why Everything You Know About It is Wrong.

00:44Fascinating title.

00:45An alumnus of IIT Delhi, IIM Ahmedabad, and a former civil services officer, he's an exponent

00:54of pure Vedantic wisdom, a vocal warrior against superstition and inner weakness, a promulgator

01:03of pure spiritual veganism, and an expander of essential human freedom.

01:12It is my great pleasure to welcome Acharya Ji and welcome all of you.

01:20Acharya Ji, it is such an honor and a pleasure to have you with us.

01:26And if I might, if you don't mind, I might start off with the first question myself to

01:33you.

01:34That question is, you know, we are doing some teaching and research now, which is a center,

01:42maybe the first of its kind, not only in India, but around the world.

01:47It is called the Center for Complexity Economics, Applied Spirituality and Public Policy.

01:56One of the big challenges that we as anyone else who is interested in making a link between

02:04applied spirituality and public policy will face is that spirituality traditionally has

02:13been something at the individual level.

02:18Individuals seek wisdom, learning, awakening, call it enlightenment, and so on.

02:27Public policy, on the other hand, takes place at the societal level.

02:32It is in a collective, society is engaged, you know, policymakers are engaged, politicians

02:39are engaged.

02:41So the question then is, how can we bridge the gap between spiritual awakening, spiritual

02:49wisdom, traditionally happening at the individual level with the collective problems of public

02:57policy?

02:58Yes.

02:59Thank you for the kind introduction.

03:03And I am really glad to be participating here and see we are talking about spirituality

03:14and public policy here and the peculiar challenge we face.

03:21The first thing that we see in spirituality is that there is hardly anything called the

03:34individual.

03:37So you said that it's the individual that seeks to learn, grow and awaken, whereas public

03:45policy is at the collective and social level.

03:49There is hardly anything called the individual.

03:53We all are simply products of influences.

04:01The biologically conditioned organism is born and then that organism gets further and further

04:14conditioned by what he experiences in the society.

04:22However, there is an innate displeasure, a state of malcontentment, because we are not

04:36merely mechanical or material.

04:40Therefore being conditioned this way doubly, biologically and socially, is not something

04:46we enjoy.

04:50So there is an inner strife and that's the reason why all of us, most of us, are never

04:59quite at ease with ourselves and our surroundings and life in general.

05:06Because our fundamental nature is freedom, whereas our reality is that we are conditioned beings.

05:14So it's not really as if the person, the individual himself is a separate and powerful

05:32and entitled entity that would go on to seek learning, realization and freedom.

05:43Since we are products of influences, hence public policy is of utmost importance.

05:50I am trying to turn the argument over its head.

05:55If people are to be encouraged to seek the truth of their lives, live lives away from

06:07falseness and beliefs and superstitions and spend their time in a liberated way, then

06:16the influences acting on them have to be very carefully exercised.

06:24Whether or not a person would have the urge towards awakening depends a lot on his environment.

06:37That is the reason why we have so many saints and seers and sages in India and not that

06:50many, at least not densely packed in other parts of the world.

06:57It's not for nothing that we talk of India as the spiritual capital of the world.

07:04It's got not much to do with the genes or something, it's got to do with the culture

07:09and the environment.

07:12And these are in the hands of policy makers and leaders and teachers.

07:21So we need to have first of all an education system which comes very much in the purview

07:26of public policy that encourages the student to go within himself and that's got nothing

07:36to do with communal persuasions or particular ideologies or religious beliefs.

07:45It's something extremely universal, we are human beings and there is the mind and one

07:52must know from where two thoughts arise, feelings arise, identities arise.

08:00It's very similar at least in the beginning to the field of psychology.

08:06So there is nothing non-secular or partisan about it.

08:14Then if this thing goes well enough and if it's taught nicely enough, then one comes

08:22to a point almost by himself where one realizes that the mind in itself is just a cage and

08:29therefore one ought to be liberated.

08:35That need not even be very strongly taught.

08:38If just the fact of our being, our life can be exposed to us, a mirror can be shown to

08:46us, then we will be in a better state to live as free thinking individuals, broad minded,

08:58less fearful, more tolerant.

09:03If we leave it just to the individual urge to gain freedom, then we will have one in

09:09a million who will have that kind of a strong urge all by himself to rise against the inner

09:18shackles and try something extraordinary.

09:22And that is the need of the hour, therefore it cannot be left to chance.

09:26We cannot say that spiritual awakening is something that happens purely by grace and

09:31there is no need for any kind of policy measures, therefore.

09:35We need to have policy measures that encourage a certain inwardness.

09:43And you have governments that, for example, encourage a certain kind of tourism just for

09:55pleasure even in spiritual places.

10:00Similarly you see, just an example to show that even taxation has a role here.

10:07We have governments that in the name of generating employment promote flesh consumption and atrocities

10:17over animals.

10:20It is not for nothing that as a society we are turning more and more insensitive, cruel

10:26And you see, the temperatures are already reaching 50 degrees centigrade.

10:39So unless the individual is awakened by means of right social environment and careful public

10:49policy, there would be very little chance.

10:53Right now the condition is such that even if we have a kid or a young person who biologically

11:02and luckily has a certain inward orientation, the culture tears him away from the inner

11:12dimension and pushes him outwards.

11:15If you have an education that is focused totally on developing your marketable skills and earning

11:23your bread, how do you expect people to be self-aware?

11:28And if people are not self-aware, then there is no hope for humanity.

11:32This is really a fascinating perspective Acharyaji.

11:38Very interesting indeed.

11:39A quick follow-up and then we let our other colleagues engage with you as well.

11:48We spend quite a bit of time studying and engaging with and developing insights from

11:57Advaita Vedanta ourselves.

12:00In fact, we have done a background research on the mystical core of the world's religions.

12:17And we find similar teachings to Advaita Vedanta at the core of Christianity, the Sufism

12:25part of Islam, Buddhism, Daoism, and so on.

12:32So we look at this as a kind of a clear essential truth.

12:39Not only is that the case when we look at the most recent research from quantum physics

12:46or cognitive neuroscience, the teachings are very similar, almost the same, the primacy

12:53of consciousness and so on.

12:56So I take your point that truly speaking, we are not individuals per se.

13:03We share a collective consciousness.

13:06But because of our conditioning, we believe we are separate individuals.

13:15So then we end up with a chicken and egg problem because the policy makers tend to

13:23respond to the electorate in democracies at least.

13:31On the other, so if the electorate as individuals are not demanding, you know, the kind of public

13:37policies that are required for the enlightenment in a society, it's not likely we will get

13:45those policies.

13:48On the other hand, your argument is clear.

13:51If the public policies are not there, then it will not foster the environment in which

13:57people will become more enlightened.

14:01So we have a catch-22.

14:02How would you approach resolving this?

14:07You see, that's one of the perils of a democratic system.

14:12The leaders cannot be much more conscious than their voters.

14:24We need now some kind of magic which we cannot actually rely on.

14:36If it happens, it happens.

14:37It's a matter of grace.

14:39And we just said that the probability that someone would be awakened on his own irrespective

14:46of the adverse social and cultural and educational environment is one in a million.

14:53So the probability of that happening by itself is one in a million.

14:57The second thing that would happen, if that does not happen, is that there would be mass

15:04suffering.

15:07And that mass suffering would forcibly expose people to understanding that they are mistaken

15:19somewhere.

15:21The second route is obviously not preferable.

15:26But the first route is simply a function of prayers.

15:31We cannot do much about it.

15:32We will have to rely on certain extraordinary individuals to come up on their own.

15:41And then not merely beg the electorate for votes pandering to their insecurities and

15:49fears and ignorance, but actually enlighten the electorate and lead them towards something

15:59meaningful.

16:01The kind of leaders that we currently have, they move behind their followers because they

16:07cannot afford to annoy their followers.

16:10And the truth always carries the risk of irritating something or annoying something or somebody.

16:27I would rather say that those who understand the urgency of the situation have to do as

16:40much as possible.

16:44And the rest of the work will be done by the deteriorating global conditions.

16:50So one and two will work in tandem.

16:54On one hand, we need individual enterprise to assert itself and do whatever it can.

17:04So that at least a few examples are there.

17:08So that when one is in a position where he has to look to the other side of the fence,

17:15he does not see complete darkness.

17:18He at least has a few role models or ideals.

17:22So individuals must do whatever they can.

17:25But I am afraid that a lot of work here is going to be done by mass suffering.

17:31We will see the results of our misguided ways.

17:39The chicken will come home to roost and will be forced to change.

17:55And if you are not forced to change, then obliteration of this species is not a mammoth

18:00event in let's say cosmological terms.

18:08Species have arrived and departed and that's been happening since billions of years.

18:16So if this particular species goes extinct, that's nothing special.

18:22It's for the sake of our own survival, continuation and welfare that we ought to wake up.

18:30Either we do it on our own or the grand cycle of Prakriti will simply run its course.

18:43This is amazing.

18:44I was trained originally as an environmental scientist and when you refer to the extinction

18:53of species, I myself made that observation about 30 years ago that if we continue along

19:00this path, we are not going to change the world, we will just change the conditions

19:06under which humans are able to survive and the species will go.

19:13And you have come to the same conclusion.

19:15This is quite amazing.

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