00:00I feel that spirituality is, I mean, or rather religiousness is conceptualized as spirituality
00:10in the current time. So people, they, on the crux, they are religious, but they try to
00:15believe that they are spiritual, while these are very, very different things. Religiousness
00:19is pretty rigid, while spirituality helps us or kind of sets us free. So how do I try
00:27to bring this thought process from a religious mindset to a spiritual mindset? How can I
00:32influence others to do so? Or is it even required or can they avoid it? Religion as it is commonly
00:38practiced is very outward looking, very, very outward looking. How? It looks at others,
00:46it looks at the past, it looks at practices and it says, I will do all those things. It
00:55looks at particular books, it looks at everything outside of the looker. It need not be like
01:05that. Religion in its classical definition is not this, but unfortunately this is the
01:13way religion is practiced nowadays. In fact, religion has been practiced this way more
01:19or less throughout the course of history. So that's religion. There are these rituals
01:24that have been followed since 2000 years and I am following them. You are not looking at
01:29yourself, you are looking at past and ritual and forefathers and all that stuff. I am Hindu
01:35or I am a Muslim or I belong to this sect, I have that belief, so I'll do all these things.
01:42That particular temple is great, so I am going to that particular temple. That particular
01:48Guru is wonderful, so I am approaching that. So that's religion. Spirituality though really
01:56it is the center of religion, yet it is very distinct from religion. Spirituality looks
02:03at oneself, spirituality keeps all this external business aside. Spirituality says, but before
02:10I look at anything, I have to ask, who is looking? Before I say anything about anything,
02:21who is this I that says anything? Is that not the first question? You see, one can not
02:29be completely sure of anything. I am looking at the screen right now, maybe I am dreaming,
02:36why is it not possible? Tell me, maybe you don't really exist. There is at least a marginal
02:45possibility, when you are in your dreams, aren't dreams all too real, as real as this
02:55moment right now. Is that not the case? So you can never be sure of what is happening.
03:02Let's say you are a religious person and you say, such tradition has been followed
03:07by my community since so many years. Now, how do you really know? How can you be sure
03:12that this tradition has indeed been followed in this particular way? You cannot be sure
03:16of anything. You cannot be sure of your thoughts, you cannot be sure of your beliefs, but there
03:23is one thing that you can be sure of, that if there is thought, there is a thinker, that
03:31if there is suffering, there is a sufferer, that if there is a question, there is a questioner.
03:37So you, this entity that asks, listens, suffers, feels confused, falls, rises, this entity
03:47is the only thing you can ever be sure of. Everything else might be a mirage, a dream,
03:54an apparition, you don't know. That's the point spirituality starts from. Spirituality
03:59says, I'll start from the point, the only point I can be fully confident of and that
04:05is I. About everything else, I'll be a little skeptical. I'm not rejecting everything else.
04:13I just want to doubt. I want to question whether things really are as they appear. But before
04:22I say whether this thing is really as it appears to me, I have to test my eyes. This thing
04:29comes later, my eyes come first. When you cannot look at this towel properly, do you
04:36go and get this towel tested or do you go and get your eyes tested? So that's the difference
04:44between religion and spirituality. Religion is just too much concerned with the towel.
04:53Spirituality says I need to get my eyes tested, the I need to be tested. Are you getting it?
05:03So though really spirituality is at the center of all religion, religion is the circumference,
05:13the periphery that is supposed to gradually draw the religious one to spirituality. But
05:24that often not is the case. One gets caught at the periphery. One remains at the circumference
05:30all his life. In fact, one starts resisting the center itself. There is often a great
05:38conflict between the spiritual mind and the religious mind. In fact really spiritual people
05:45have been badly persecuted by none other than religious people. The Sufis for example and
05:55even in India, if you are really a spiritual person, then you will find that the community
06:03that opposes you the most is not of atheists. It is of religious people. They will be the
06:13ones who would be opposing the really spiritual person the most, which is an unfortunate thing
06:18because the way religion was designed, it was designed to gradually make a person spiritual.
06:27Today the situation is that these are not in sync or harmony with each other, rather
06:35these two have become greatly separated. Some fundamental questions that you need to ask
06:45maybe a religious person, maybe they might work, depends a lot on chance and your effort
06:50and the intensity. Having done all that you have been doing all your life, are you really at peace?
07:05Because that's the only thing that you want. You say, if you are at peace, do you really
07:13need to follow any religious practices? If you are joyful, then the ultimate has already
07:23been achieved. Then do you really need to remember and chant verses? You don't, right?
07:33So have you really achieved something in the moment of your crisis? Does your religious
07:43practice really help you? Do your beliefs really stand the scrutiny of time and circumstances?
07:58But there has to be a sharp and smart occasion to do all those things, as this is strike
08:08the iron when it is hot. So it is only at certain opportune times that you can ask these
08:16questions, otherwise usually the traditionally religious mind is just too unavailable to
08:25any kind of enquiry. After listening to all this conversation, I had a very basic question
08:32and when it comes, again it comes to the religion versus spirituality debate. So when it comes
08:37to religion, we can say that, who created us? There is a question. So religious people
08:42will say God created us. There is someone who is up there, he created us like that.
08:46But what is the real answer for that in spirituality? And again, why are we here? What are we doing here?
08:57Are we really anywhere? First of all, let me answer that. The religious person says,
09:04who created us and what is the purpose of this life? Do you see the implicit assumption here?
09:12First of all, it is believed that you exist. When you are confident that you exist, you
09:18ask who created me? Who created my body? Who created the trees, the rivers, the building,
09:25whatever, the entire universe? And when you are confident that you know what life is,
09:33then you ask what is the purpose of life? So the religious question is based on some
09:41very dubious assumptions. The spiritual approach is far more rigorous. The spiritual mind does
09:50not ask who created us or who created me. The spiritual mind asks, do I exist at all?
09:59If I exist at all, only then the question of my creator becomes relevant. For the creator
10:07to be there, first of all, there has to be the creation, right? Now you do not know for
10:13sure whether even the creation exists at all or it exists in the way you does, you think it does.
10:26Okay, take this example. I am drunk, let's say, and I ask who created these eight fingers?
10:39I am drunk and I am asking who created these eight fingers? Now should I answer this question
10:44or should I first look at my own state? The religious mind does not understand that it
10:49is drunk and is asking about the fingers that do not exist at all. Does the world even
10:56exist in the way you think it does? In your life, has anything ever been, even one single
11:03thing ever been the way you have thought it is? Are even your parents really the way you
11:12take them to be? Are even you, the person you think you are? So we do not know anything
11:23for sure. When we do not know anything, then we have to focus on the knower. Let me first
11:31of all look at the knower, correct him, liberate him, purify him, only then I am entitled to
11:36talk about anything else. Otherwise, I am taking undue liberties. The eighth finger.
11:45And when nobody is able to tell me who made the eighth finger, then I come up with a story.
11:50One day, God after his lunch was in a particularly bad mood. So he called his pet dog, clip this
12:00tail and with the tail he made my eighth finger. And religious literature is agog with
12:08such stories, is it not? This happened, that happened, then God did this, then God did
12:15that and finally man was made. Spirituality does not live in stories. Spirituality is
12:21extremely rigorous, very very rigorous. It is more scientific than science itself. It
12:32says wait, before I answer the question, may I please ask who is questioning? It starts
12:45from there and believe me, it ends there as well. It is so rigorous. It has no scope
12:53for entertainment. It does not allow you to roam astray and talk about this and that,
13:03this planet, that planet, this seed, that food, this particular auspicious day, sun
13:10and moon and then thousand other things. Spirituality has nothing to do with all that.
Comments