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00:00Dr. BS Ajay Kumar, Executive Chairman of Healthcare Global Enterprise, joins us.

00:05Dr. Ajay Kumar, thank you for taking the time out to talk to us.

00:10Doc, what is going on?

00:12I mean, there are reports indicating that higher pricing by hospitals is coming

00:16at the cost of healthcare and patient care and well-being of patients.

00:20Firstly, you've got to tell me, is this what's happening?

00:25You know, I do not believe it is happening all over.

00:30There may be a few hospitals which are doing it.

00:33But what I would like to state here is that normally when the patient comes in,

00:39they are well aware of what the charges are going to be.

00:42Most of the hospital practice this ethics.

00:45Patients are told what is the charge, let's say private ward versus general ward.

00:51All the things are explained and the signature is obtained.

00:55The patients fully understand what is happening.

00:58Plus or minus 5 percent, it may be because of some unexpected procedure

01:03or unexpected intervention.

01:05So normally, in my best of my opinion, most of the hospitals are practicing like that.

01:10In HCG itself, we have a very system where the patient is told.

01:15We actually, majority of the time, we even videograph.

01:19And then we believe we should do the right thing for the patient at that time.

01:24And we measure the outcome.

01:25So I think most of the hospitals are now into quality outcome.

01:30So we know for a fact that this is not happening generally.

01:34But there may be instances where patients feel some of the time,

01:39some people may feel that there is an extra charge.

01:42And as you know, in the past also, there was discussion about people charging

01:46for gloves, people charging for other things.

01:48But we believe it should be a package.

01:51What I feel is the right thing to do is a package.

01:54But one of the things we need to understand is there is inflation in medicine.

01:59There is cost of operation, particularly post-COVID.

02:02The costs have gone up.

02:04For example, if you want to buy a technology, the cost has gone up over 50 percent.

02:10Like I can tell you about a CT scan, MRI.

02:13That used to be four and a half lakhs is almost seven.

02:16Four and a half crores is almost seven crores.

02:19Similarly to CT scan.

02:21For whatever reason, and the customs duty, for whatever reason,

02:24the costs have gone up.

02:26So if you do believe in doing the right thing for the patient,

02:29obviously that cost has to be absorbed.

02:32So that is why the measure I do is what is the margin.

02:36The margin should always be kept somewhere around 20, between 20 and 25 percent.

02:42I think this will control the medical expenses and do the right thing.

02:47But, of course, the talent acquisition is also expensive, getting the right doctors.

02:51So it is true that the cost may be going up, but one has to carefully study why.

02:57But still, having compared to the advanced countries, our cost is much less.

03:02I could say this categorically.

03:04For example, a PET scan in positron emission tomography in U.S. costs $3,000.

03:11We do it for actually $250.

03:14So there is a vast difference.

03:16I completely take your point, but I don't know how fair it is to compare

03:20the health care in India versus the health care internationally.

03:23Let's understand that there is a public...

03:25What is wrong in it?

03:27Because a large part of the health care in India, unfortunately, has to be private.

03:31So if the costs are that elevated, it's only going to make it harder

03:34for individuals to go out and do those services.

03:38We don't have the sort of cover or the government support that countries

03:41like the U.S. and the U.K. have.

03:43So I don't know whether that's a fair comparison at any stage.

03:46But let's move on.

03:48I will ask you one thing.

03:51If somebody comes to India and has the same outcome,

03:54our cancer patients have the same outcome as being treated in Houston,

03:58MD Anderson or somewhere, and the cost is one-tenth.

04:02In fact, books have been written about India reverse innovation.

04:05It's a Harvard case study.

04:07So we have mastered the art of cost versus outcome.

04:11But doctor, you'd agree with me that the very wealthy are still seeking

04:15global health covers and still going to countries like the U.S.

04:18And we've read about this, right, where you've had celebrities

04:21who've gone to the U.S. to deal with their problems.

04:24And the number of global health insurance covers are also on the uptick.

04:28And there is a reverse outflow.

04:30So doctors who are talented are leaving and fleeing the country.

04:34So that is another reality.

04:36It's actually not true.

04:38A lot of doctors who have gone to the U.K. have come back to India.

04:41So how much part of your patients would you say is coming from outside?

04:47So how good is health tourism doing?

04:49I mean, break that number for me, right, in terms of top line.

04:52In our Bangalore center, which is center of excellence,

04:56nearly 18 to 20 percent of revenue is from international patients

05:01coming from Africa, Middle East.

05:04One thing we have to keep in mind that some people in the past

05:09used to go to Europe or U.S.

05:11They are coming to India because of the cost differential

05:14and equally good outcome.

05:16But my point is not that.

05:18My point is, yes, the costs are going up.

05:21In fact, as you know, U.S., the percentage of GDP is 19 percent healthcare.

05:26In India, it is 2 percent.

05:28So this has been written worldwide.

05:31We have to be very clear.

05:33We have written about Indian cost versus other costs and outcome.

05:37We should not just measure cost.

05:39We should measure cost and outcome.

05:41Of course, people will say our purchasing power is low.

05:45I told that recently the parliamentary committee,

05:48yes, purchasing power is low.

05:50My job is to provide the right care to the patient at the right cost.

05:54But the job of the government is to improve the purchasing power.

05:58That is why we also recommend universal healthcare.

06:01In Brazil, for example, which is an advancing country like us.

06:05So we should have universal healthcare.

06:07So poor and rich are treated equally.

06:10But that is the only answer to this.

06:12You're right, you're right, doctor.

06:14Of course, a lot of it is also maybe out of control.

06:17There are external factors that are probably impacting the cost.

06:20So be it supply chain disruption, inflation, increased cost of medical supplies.

06:24But as long as we're doing the right thing, and that's what maintains.

06:29And you are also a listed company.

06:31So you're still answerable to shareholders as much as you are to patients.

06:35Doc, we'd have loved to chat with you longer.

06:38It's unfortunate we're completely out of time.

06:40But hopefully we'll connect again and do a more detailed chat.

06:43Because this is such an important topic and aspect,

06:46which impacts every household and every person watching us on TV as well.

06:50If not as an investor, but of course as a citizen of this country.

Healthcare Global's View On Medical Inflation | NDTV Profit

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