00:00M.O.S. Pankaj Choudhury tried to give the details. I just want to put the entire Sahara
00:09matter before this honourable house in all its dimensions. If you will indulge me a bit
00:16more time, I will be able to, I am not taking too much time, but I would like to put it
00:19into three different categories. That which comes under the SEBI's regulations, now first
00:27of all, everything to do with Sahara is being monitored by the Supreme Court. There are
00:33some which come under the regulator SEBI, there are some which are being dealt with
00:39by the Ministry of Cooperation. So I want to be clear when I convey this thought that
00:46everything is being monitored by the Supreme Court. M.O.S. was right in saying those which
00:51come under the SEBI are actually three entities of the Sahara. Sahara India Real Estate Corporation
00:58Limited, Sahara Housing Investment Corporation Limited and Sahara India Commercial. Now
01:06the Supreme Court order of 2012 does say the estimated amount is 25,781.37 crores, but
01:17estimated number of the investors or depositors also estimated again at 3.07 crores. M.O.S.
01:26rightly said that in spite of the attempts made by the SEBI advertising in 2013, advertising
01:35in 2014 and again in 2018 saying on 2nd July that this is the last time please whoever
01:42wants to claim, come over. Three publicly announced attempts to get people to come and
01:48claim the amount so that the dispersal can happen and this entire effort is being monitored
01:54by retired Justice B.N. Agarwal, retired Justice from the Supreme Court. So in this matter
02:01sir, the monies which are being given are being given after scrutiny of the applications.
02:07Number of claims sir, 19,650 claims came of which the Justice B.N. Agarwal committee
02:15looking at its eligibility and everything, 17,256 claims only could be entertained and
02:22that resulted in only 138.07 as the amount which is being claimed which is given. Yes
02:29we are talking of a 25,000 crore estimated amount, but claimants are only this many.
02:36So repeated attempts by the Supreme Court to go for advertisements are not yielding
02:41results in this particular SEBI related three company case. Sir, in general the honourable
02:49member asked are there no properties of the SEBI which cannot be auctioned out and money
02:54paid. Yes, of Sahara which SEBI can auction and reclaim the money. First of all sir, yes
03:05there are 18. Sir, first of all the 25,781 crore is not fully distributed, that is one
03:19thing. Second, Sahara India commercial sir, 18 properties have been attached. The matter
03:26is being, I am dealing with all the SEBI related matters and I am saying yes 18 properties
03:31are there and now even if auctioned the money will only go to that pool which is yet waiting
03:37to get distributed. So that is one aspect we have to keep in mind. The second sir, is
03:43the one which after the co-operative ministry has been formed, ministry of co-operation
03:49has been formed, then the government approached and honourable Supreme Court gave an order
03:55that some amount from the SEBI, that amount which is sitting in SEBI, some of them can
04:00be given to ministry of co-operation which can then get distributed for the co-operatives
04:05related. There are four co-operatives of the SEBI, of the Sahara. Sahara Credit Co-operative
04:11Society which is registered in Lucknow, Hamara India Credit Co-operative Society Limited
04:16which is registered in Kolkata, Sahara Universal Multi-Purpose Society registered in Bhopal,
04:24so and then Sahara Stars Multi-Purpose Co-operative Society registered in Hyderabad. For all of
04:30them put together, the total estimated amount is 86,673. Alright, for all the four sir,
04:42Justice R Subash Reddy, retired judge is looking at it, along with Amicus Curie, Gaurav Agarwal
04:51along with the Central Registrar of Co-operative Society who is sitting as a Joint Secretary
04:57in the Ministry of Co-operation, all three of them together form a committee and they
05:01are the ones who are looking around for, you know, the claims which are coming, eligibility
05:07of the claims and then giving them the money. Number of claims 1.21 crores. How much is
05:14the amount claimed? Amount which is estimated as claimed is 86,000 but how much could be
05:19released because the claims have to be legitimate? 374 crores released to 4.36 lakh depositors
05:26with 1.27 lakh depositors whose claims are only up to 10,000 rupees. Only 10,000 rupees
05:36or below, people have already been given whatever their claim is, 10,000, 8,000, 9,000 whatever
05:42the individual claim is. So that way, there is this committee headed by Justice Subash
05:48Reddy along with two other members who are looking at those aspects of co-operation related,
05:54the four co-operatives which were under the Sahara. And the final source, the Pearl Agro
06:01Co-operation Limited which is also linked to Sahara. Here, sir, 49,000 crores is what
06:09is the estimated amount which will eventually have to be distributed. Now, how many estimated
06:14number of, the honourable member kept asking, what is the number of claimants? What is the
06:19amount? We are giving you that. They are all estimated numbers. I don't know if there will
06:23be more or less. Estimated number for this one institution, Pearl Agro Co-operation Limited
06:30is 5.8 crores. Estimated number of investors. Now, amounts claimed till now, sir, number
06:41of claims which have come, 1.5 crore. And till date, claims are being sought in phased
06:47manner from people. Online processes are happening. Yes, but the variety of questions which are
06:56coming, I thought it will be of interest for several members. So I'm going. I'm seeking
07:02the time of the honourable speaker. If he wants me to sit down, I'll sit down. I have
07:05no problem, sir. Sir, the refunds, online processes of claims and refunds, I'm giving
07:11you one account, refunds of 1,021 crore to 20.8 lakh claimants with claims. And here,
07:24each claimant could have up to 19,000 crores. He must be 10,000, 12,000, 15,000 or 2,000.
07:31Up to 19,000 crores, jitne bhi claimants hai, they are 20.8 lakh claimants for whom 1,021
07:40crores have been distributed. Justice retired R. M. Lodaji is looking at this. He is a justice
07:47looking at it and reporting to Supreme Court. So we would like more claims to come. There
07:53is a portal created by Ministry of Co-operation saying, please put your names for those four
07:59co-operatives based organisation. Go to that portal, register your name. That committee
08:05of three people, inclusive of a retired judge, will look into the claims and money will be
08:09distributed. But we are seeking more claims, sir. I would request all the honourable members,
08:15if they have people who are approaching them, to please come. Put a legitimate claim, show
08:21the papers, take the money. We are waiting to clear it. But I just want to dispel this
08:27thought that Government of India is not doing anything. We are constantly reporting to the
08:32Supreme Court. Three panels of retired Supreme Court judges are monitoring us. They are approving
08:40every claim which is getting money back. So let us not in this House have a doubt about
08:47the intent and the interest with which the central government is working on this.
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