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Video Information: Month of Awakening, 25.06.2019, Naukuchiatal, India
Context:
'Then an old man a keeper of an inn said speak to us of eating and drinking and he said would that you could live on the fragrance of the earth and like an air plant be sustained By the Light but since you must guill to eat and Rob the newly born of its mother's milk to quench your thirst let it be then an act of worship and let your board stand an alter on which the pure and the innocent of forest and plain are sacrificed for that which is purer and still more innocent in man when you kill a beast say to him in Your Heart by the same power that slays you I do am slain and I too shall be consumed for the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand your blood and my blood is not but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven and when you crush an apple with your teeth say to it in your heart your seeds shall live in my body and the birds of your tomorrow shall blossom in my heart and your fragrance shall be my breath and together we shall rejoice through all the seasons and in the Autumn when you gather The Grapes of your wineyard for the wine press say in your heart I too am a vineard and my fruit shall be gathered for the wine press and like new wine I shall be kept in Eternal vessels.'
~ Khalil Gibran
Is eating animals the same as eating plants?
Do animals have more value than plants?
What is the one reason that makes me take plants over animals?
Eating Apples and animals is the same thing?
Who are we?
Music Credits: Milind Date
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00Then an old man, a keeper of an inn, said, speak to us of eating and drinking.
00:19And he said, would that you could live on the fragrance of the earth, and like an air
00:30plant be sustained by the light.
00:37But since you must kill to eat, and rob the newly born of its mother's milk to quench
00:45your thirst, let it be then an act of worship.
00:54And let your board stand an altar on which the pure and the innocent of forest and plain
01:05are sacrificed for that which is purer and still more innocent in man.
01:14When you kill a beast, say to him in your heart, by the same power that slays you, I
01:21too am slain, and I too shall be consumed.
01:27For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand.
01:35Your blood and my blood is naught but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven.
01:42And when you crush an apple with your teeth, say to it in your heart, your seeds shall
01:50live in my body, and the buds of your tomorrow shall blossom in my heart, and your fragrance
01:58shall be my breath, and together we shall rejoice through all the seasons.
02:08And in the autumn, when you gather the grapes of your vineyard for the winepress, say in
02:15your heart, I too am a vineyard, and my fruit shall be gathered for the winepress, and like
02:24new wine I shall be kept in eternal vessels.
02:29The issue of eating an animal versus eating an apple, because Gibran seems to have put
02:40both these on the same plane.
02:44He says when you slaughter an animal, then say these things to the animal, and when you
02:51eat an apple, then say these things to an apple.
02:59So to a common reader it might appear that even Gibran is validating that eating an apple
03:19and eating an animal are both similar acts, well they are not, let me assure you.
03:34Not at all.
03:39This has to be understood.
03:44Who are we?
03:48It all begins from there.
03:57We are not just bodies that need to be fed.
04:09You can feed the body of a madman very nicely.
04:20You can give him the best kind of foods that are available, and if those foods are guaranteed,
04:34would you want to have the life of the madman, of the psychotic, of the mentally deranged person?
04:50The best of foods have been assured.
05:00Would you like to now shift to a mental asylum?
05:07You won't, because it is not for food that man lives.
05:16It is very obvious to you, it is so commonsensical, that if the body is alright, but the mind
05:25is in disarray, mind is in chaos, then life is not at all worth living.
05:34Therefore a well-fed madman is not at all someone you would want to be.
05:48So what is it that then we really value, all of us universally?
05:53We all want peace of mind, don't we?
05:59Even having good food is a way to keep the mind quiet, because if the body is hungry
06:06then the mind starts shouting.
06:11Even the food is not so much for the body, but really for the mind.
06:25So as I am fond of saying, we are incomplete, hungry, thirsty, seeking consciousnesses.
06:50That's what we really are.
07:00Our bodily identity is marginal.
07:05I am not denying it, I am just keeping it in its right place.
07:12It does exist, but it is not our primary identity, and I am not stating a principle,
07:21I am stating a fact, I am not describing a utopia, a destination, I am just describing
07:35the day-to-day fact of our lives.
07:42A well-fed body having all the bodily comforts is no good if the mind is yelling and shrieking.
07:52That is a day-to-day experience, I am talking about that.
07:58So we are minds.
08:03Man is a consciousness seeking completion, seeking dissolution.
08:21Whatsoever is there in consciousness is noise, that is why man enjoys deep sleep the most.
08:37There is no noise then, this, that, happiness, sadness, light, darkness, right, left, up,
08:45down, profit, loss, they are all burdens upon the consciousness, and they are the stuff,
08:56the content of consciousness.
09:00The content of consciousness is itself the pain of consciousness, and man does not want
09:08to live in pain.
09:13We seek, therefore, completion, which in other words is dissolution.
09:20There is always something missing in life, we are always feeling incomplete, and this
09:27incompleteness is the content of consciousness.
09:30Man is seeking to somehow go beyond the pain of not being full.
09:41That's why we all aim and target and desire and run around, because we want something
09:52that would give us fullness, that's our condition.
10:00Now from this condition let's proceed to see what our food must be.
10:12Once one sees that one is consciousness, one also sees that elevation of consciousness
10:23is one's only saviour, what do I mean by elevation of consciousness?
10:32Consciousness that understands, consciousness that is free, consciousness that has love,
10:46that is what brings peace.
10:57Heights of consciousness, one starts seeing that it is not the world that would be of
11:06much use to you, but consciousness itself.
11:11You want to then serve it, raise it, elevate it, fulfill it.
11:24No point running after this material or that thing, this food or that drink, if it does
11:31not elevate your consciousness.
11:39So one requires reverence towards consciousness, one requires to have a continuous remembrance
11:51that one's saviour is nothing but consciousness.
11:58One requires to repeat it to himself constantly, what will save me?
12:02Not money, not food, not drinks, not house, not anything in the world, but consciousness
12:11itself.
12:12So that is the only thing that is valuable.
12:14What is valuable then?
12:15Consciousness.
12:17Not money, not food, not drinks, not this.
12:19What is valuable?
12:20Consciousness is valuable.
12:21What is valuable?
12:22Consciousness is valuable.
12:23What is valuable?
12:24Consciousness is valuable.
12:25If consciousness is valuable, now tell me, what do I eat?
12:32And given my physical composition, given who I am as a body, something has to be eaten.
12:42What do I eat?
12:46I'll have to eat something that elevates consciousness or at least brings minimum damage to consciousness
12:54itself.
12:57And remember that the way to salvation is to be deeply, deeply respectful of consciousness
13:02as such.
13:04Not my own consciousness, consciousness as such.
13:07Because if I respect only my consciousness, then I am respecting my personal current state
13:12of consciousness.
13:14And if you respect that, you'll never be able to go beyond that.
13:17To respect consciousness is not to respect your personal consciousness, but to respect,
13:22I am saying, consciousness as such.
13:26And if you respect consciousness as such, how will you kill a conscious being?
13:31He is the same as you.
13:37He is the same as you.
13:38Then you will say, are not the plants that we kill to eat same as us?
13:43Yes, they too are.
13:45But what do you do?
13:50You're born with mouth, teeth, stomach, intestines.
13:59You're born with a body that requires energy.
14:04You'll have to eat something.
14:07But if you have to eat something, then how do you decide what to eat?
14:10Eat that in which you are causing minimum damage to consciousness.
14:20Eat that in which you are causing minimum damage to consciousness.
14:24So eating an apple and eating an animal are not the same thing.
14:32The apple is not crying for salvation.
14:37The apple is not crying for freedom.
14:38But the animal hates to be caged.
14:44Do you see the difference in consciousness between the two of them?
14:49If you cage an apple tree, probably it will give you more apples.
14:57It will love to be safe from the birds and such things, animals.
15:02But if you cage an animal, he does not like it.
15:06You too do not like to be caged.
15:10There is something in the animal's consciousness which is just the same as yours.
15:17And if you respect your consciousness, how can you then kill the animal who then, in
15:24this respect, becomes your conscious brother?
15:30He wants the same thing as you do.
15:32He too loves freedom.
15:36He too loves to be loved, just like you.
15:44And that will tell you why man does not eat man.
15:48Because among the sentient beings, man is the most conscious.
15:58If to eat an apple is the same thing as eating an animal, then eating Baba Adam too should
16:11be the same thing, no?
16:14The apple, the animal and Adam, they all must be put in the same plane.
16:19But why don't we eat human beings?
16:21Because they are most conscious.
16:27And even among human beings, to kill a highly conscious human being is a greater crime than
16:33killing someone who is asleep and lost and unconscious.
16:49In general, human beings are not cannibals.
16:52We do not eat other men and women, do we?
16:56Why don't we ask ourselves, why don't we eat other men and women?
16:59If flesh is what we want to eat, then why kill only animals?
17:06There are many who say, you know, eating flesh is all right.
17:09If eating flesh is all right, why is it not all right to eat human flesh?
17:17It is not all right to eat human flesh.
17:19A line is drawn.
17:21A line is drawn between the human being and the animal.
17:30You say, no, the human being cannot be eaten because he is highly conscious.
17:35I want you to draw the line between apple and the animal.
17:42You are anyway drawing a line.
17:44It is not that you eat flesh wherever it is available.
17:49A newborn has no defenses at all.
17:55You can easily kill it and eat it, can't you?
17:59I'm talking of a newborn human baby.
18:02Why don't you kill a human baby if flesh is all that you want?
18:08Why don't even habitual flesh eaters eat human babies or human beings?
18:15It does not occur to them, right?
18:18I'm asking them to introspect.
18:20Why don't you eat human beings?
18:25You don't eat human beings because human beings are conscious.
18:29Because human beings are hungry of liberation.
18:33And consciousness is your only hope and consciousness is your only savior.
18:37Therefore you do not want to disrespect consciousness by killing a conscious being.
18:43So even the most ardent supporters of flesh eating do not become cannibals.
18:49They do not eat human beings.
18:53They do draw a line.
18:54I'm asking if you are drawing a line, why must only human beings be beyond the line?
19:09Why cannot you be more discreet in keeping somebody out of bounds?
19:16Right now you are drawing the line in such a way that animals are within the edible territory
19:26and human beings are outside the line, they have been exempted.
19:31No, draw the line with more discretion, more compassion, more consciousness.
19:40Keep even animals outside the line, which means that you will still be killing someone
19:47to eat.
19:49And who would that be?
19:50You would probably be killing plants, you would probably be killing grass.
19:57And now that you are killing creatures, beings, things that are less conscious, see whether
20:07you can still keep being more discreet.
20:14Is it really impossible to eat without killing a plant?
20:26It is possible.
20:27At least it must be tried.
20:33If you cannot altogether avoid killing plants, see whether you can minimize it.
20:40I understand that even the best of your efforts would not fully succeed.
20:47Some plants would probably always need to be killed for human consumption and that would
20:55mean that something conscious is still being killed.
20:58But that is the maximum you can do.
21:05Now in fact it is not violence, because it is the very constitution of your body that
21:13is acting.
21:16Violence is only when you deliberately kill.
21:22If killing is happening because it is unavoidable, then it is not violence.
21:31Your entire intestine is home to countless fungi and bacteria.
21:48And even as they are taking birth there, they must be getting killed as well.
21:53Some food that you are taking might be acidic or alkaline and it is killing a lot of microorganisms
22:01in your system.
22:02You are not responsible for those deaths.
22:08Because your very body is designed in such a way that those deaths are going to happen.
22:12So you cannot call that as violence.
22:14You cannot feel guilty about those things.
22:20In the Bhagavad Gita, Shri Krishna calls all that as akarma.
22:24He says it is not even action, it is akarma.
22:27It is something you didn't do, it just happened.
22:30So how are you to feel guilty over it?
22:36You breathe in and certain microorganisms travel into your respiratory tract, get trapped
22:50and get killed.
22:51You are not responsible and that is non-violence.
23:01So let nobody say that because somebody eats an apple, hence somebody else is entitled
23:10to eat an animal.
23:11No, eating an apple and eating an animal are not the same thing.
23:16And if eating an animal and eating an apple are the same thing, then eating an animal
23:21and eating a human being are the same thing, by the same logic, extending the same logic.
23:29So if someone comes to you quoting this kind of a logic that, you know, if I am eating
23:36the goat or the chicken, then you too are eating the rice grain and the wheat grain
23:44and the rice plant and the wheat plant have been slaughtered.
23:47So if I am guilty of violence, then you too are guilty of violence because you have killed
23:51rice and wheat and if you will continue to eat rice and wheat, then I will continue to
23:56eat goat and chicken, then ask the fellow to extend this logic.
24:04If apple and animal are the same thing, then animal and human being are the same thing.
24:13Eat the human being as well and if you do not eat the human being, then extend the same
24:18logic to not to eat the animal as well.
24:27Getting it?
24:29The best thing, the dream, the utopia would be a situation in which man can survive without
24:44killing even a single plant.
24:48Fruits, vegetables and leaves suffice, but given the configuration of our planet now
24:59and given our population, that is what I just said it is, a utopia.
25:08But still, that is what you must teach your kids, that not only must you not kill animals,
25:16you must also try to avoid killing plants.
25:20That would be the best and if you can somehow come up with a way in which even plants are
25:28not to be killed for human consumption, that would be heavenly.
25:36But if plants continue to be eaten by human beings, that does not justify the consumption
25:42of animal flesh.
25:43This should be made clear.
25:46Achyutji, we heard this in the Kareen Libran's reference, it was told that consciousness,
25:59we hold consciousness as precious, that's why we don't kill animals.
26:08So, we can take it the other way round also, that if we are killing the animals, that means
26:15we are also killing our consciousness in some way.
26:18Because there is a correlation that if the meat consumption is there, there is also alcohol consumption.
26:25So, in a way, we don't love our consciousness and that's why we are…
26:32True.
26:33So, the less you love yourself, the more likely it is that you will be a flesh eater.
26:40And the more you love yourself, the more you know your welfare, the more determined you
26:47are to help yourself out of this mess, the more loving and more compassionate you will
26:57be towards all conscious beings.
27:01So, we can say that in a way, the mind is more loving towards…
27:13Yes.
27:14There is a more permanent solution or…
27:19Yes.
27:20So, not only get rid of the animal cruelty, but other cruelties also.
27:28True.
27:29Because rape is also such thing where consciousness is not being very…
27:35Correct.
27:36And there is a definite correlation between these things.
27:39All kinds of cruelties come from the same source.
27:43Be it rape, be it debauchery, be it environmental damage or be it flesh consumption or be it
27:59dairy consumption, all of them are correlated.
28:04They all have a central root which is lack of love, which is lack of awareness, which
28:12is a lot of ignorance and when they go away, it is quite likely that all of them will together
28:21in a bundle disappear.
28:25So, to the bigger picture, spirituality is the only solution.
28:32Spirituality is the only solution to everything.
28:36Spirituality is the only solution to the one we are.
28:40It is not merely a solution to our problems.
28:43It is the solution that dissolves the one we are.
29:02Thank you.
29:03Thank you.
29:33This logic is given quite often for eating animals.
29:37For example, coastal regions, they say that we find fishes here, that's why.
29:42What else we can eat?
29:44You find your family members regularly in your house.
29:48Why don't you eat them?
29:50This is nonsensical logic.
29:54If you say that in coastal regions you find fish, then in your house you daily find your
30:00wife and your kid and your parents.
30:03Why don't you eat them?
30:05It's not about what you easily find, what you can easily lay your hands on.
30:10Then there is the very common argument of flesh eating being physically natural to man.
30:38People come up and say, you know, all our ancestors were flesh eaters.
30:44When man used to live in the jungle, he was a flesh eater.
30:49So, why are we doing something so unnatural today?
30:53Why are we saying that we don't need to have flesh?
30:59This is quite interesting.
31:06More ridiculous than interesting, but still interesting.
31:12If you talk of Prakriti and if you say, you know, in Prakriti man has been a flesh eater
31:19and therefore we must continue eating flesh, then we must also continue living on trees.
31:28Man has left Prakriti far behind.
31:32Now, why do you want to opportunistically quote Prakriti in order to just justify appeasing your taste buds?
31:44If living in a Prakritic way is so dear to you, then you go back to the jungle.
31:51If you say that when man used to live in the jungle, he used to eat flesh.
31:56So, we must continue eating flesh, then I'll say we must continue living in the jungle.
32:02You didn't bat an eyelid leaving the jungle.
32:06Leaving the jungle was so much okay with all of us.
32:11Then we didn't say, oh, it is anti-nature to leave the jungle.
32:17In the jungle, did you have houses of brick and concrete?
32:22Did you have? No.
32:24So, why are you having it?
32:25In the jungle, did you have the institution of marriage?
32:28In the jungle, did you have language?
32:30In the jungle, did you have money?
32:32In the jungle, did you have air conditioners?
32:34In the jungle, did you have science?
32:36Prakriti does not give you any of these.
32:39Prakriti gives you no science, no social institutions, no money, no knowledge, no language.
32:45So, you have already left Prakriti behind.
32:48Man's center is no longer Prakriti.
32:50Now, why are you unnecessarily quoting Prakriti to say, when we used to live in the jungle,
32:54then we used to have flesh, so let's continue to have flesh.
32:57I repeat, if you want to continue to have flesh, then go back to the jungle.
33:02Man's center is no longer Prakriti.
33:06Man's center must ideally be Atma, truth.
33:10But a great tragedy has befallen.
33:13Prakriti we have left far behind.
33:17Atma we have not reached and our center is now Ahankar, ego.
33:22And this ego sometimes quotes Prakriti and sometimes quotes Atma.
33:28As per its own conveniences.
33:36Brushing your teeth is highly unnatural. Why do you do it?
33:40Getting your kids vaccinated is highly unnatural. Why do you do it?
33:47Saying good morning to somebody is highly unnatural. Why do you do it?
33:50Going to your job is highly unnatural. Why do you do it?
33:53None of that used to happen in the jungle.
33:56You have left the jungle far behind.
33:58Why are you quoting the laws of the jungle, the ways of the jungle to justify eating flesh?
34:06When you have left everything behind in the jungle,
34:10then please leave flesh eating also behind in the jungle.
34:14Operate from a better center.
34:17You are no longer the animal. In the jungle you are the animal.
34:20So flesh eating could have been justified.
34:23Are you still the animal? No.
34:25You are the human being.
34:27The human being who has left the jungle far behind.
34:30So please discover what it means to be a human being.
34:34Please discover your right center.
34:38The whole issue is because you have left the jungle and yet not reached where you set out to reach.
34:55In between you are stuck.
34:58Man is in a very precarious position.
35:00Animals are well settled.
35:02The free ones, the Buddhas are also well settled.
35:05Man is unsettled.
35:07Animals are not restless.
35:09They are well settled in the jungle.
35:11The liberated ones, the sages and the fakirs and the sons and the gurus, they are also well settled.
35:19But the world's population, man in general is highly unsettled and restless.
35:26He is neither in the jungle nor in the place he left the jungle for.
35:34He is in the city.
35:37Very interesting thing happened.
35:42They say that producing babies is natural and you must do that.
35:47At the same time they use all kind of means, artificial means to produce.
35:53Producing babies is natural.
35:56But then it is not natural to produce babies only with your wife.
35:59In the jungle that does not happen.
36:03If you say that it is natural to have babies, then it is not natural to have babies only with one woman.
36:09Nature does not say have babies only with one woman or one man.
36:13If you want to quote nature, then go ahead and have babies with everyone you can find.
36:18You cannot selectively quote Prakriti and what is happening in the jungle.
36:23Either you become totally Prakritic and then you will have to go back to the jungle.
36:30Or you say that the jungle is now behind us and our center is now not the body,
36:36not Prakriti, not the jungle.
36:39Our center is illumination and from there we operate.
36:46Being with limited consciousness, how I am going to judge it?
36:57Using whatever limited stuff you have.
37:00You are limited and that's why you are restless.
37:04Using this limitation you see that the other one too is limited and restless.
37:17And you don't like being restless.
37:20You want to be helped, just as you want to be helped.
37:26You help the other one as well.
37:28It does not help the other one to slaughter him.
37:37The other one is just like you.
37:39He too is a feverish struggling consciousness.
37:43If you have no compassion for somebody who is just like you, it only means you have no love for yourself.
37:54If you cannot help your mirror image, are you helping yourself?
38:02The other conscious and struggling being is your mirror image, just like you.
38:08Different only in the trivial externalities.
38:13Name, shape, form, age, species.
38:18In all these matters the other one is probably different than you.
38:23But essentially he too is a consciousness clamoring for, longing for a final rest.
38:35Now do you want to bring him to that final rest or do you want to slaughter him and give him rest?
38:44Look at an animal.
38:45The animal is so much like us.
38:49We are the animal.
38:55In slaughtering the animal you are only proving that you do not care about yourself at all.
39:07Look at the animal's eyes.
39:08Is there really a difference between your eyes and the animal's eyes?
39:13Look at the expectation in the eyes of the animal.
39:15Look at the fear.
39:29The animal in fact really wants exactly the same thing that you want.
39:35It's just that he is far behind you and he is therefore far less likely to get what you might get.
39:45But he is in the same queue.
39:48In the same queue but way behind.
39:51Wanting the same thing but far less likely to get it.
40:05But the queue keeps moving.
40:08One day the animal too will get it but not if you slaughter him.
40:16In slaughtering the animal you are reducing the animal's chances and your own chances.
40:34You see, you want redemption, don't you?
40:47And you say I am suffering, somebody please help me.
40:50Now look at what you are saying.
40:52You are saying if somebody is suffering he needs to be helped.
40:56That's your argument, is it not?
40:59When you say I am suffering, I need help.
41:02What you are actually saying is I am suffering, I deserve help.
41:05So the principle you are operating on is if you are suffering you need to be helped.
41:11Now look at the animal and apply the same principle.
41:14And if there is a principle, the principle has to be universal.
41:17You cannot say that principle is there but it applies only to me.
41:21Now the same principle works on the animal as well.
41:24Right?
41:25The animal too is suffering.
41:27What it needs is help.
41:29It needs your embrace.
41:30It does not need to be on your plate.
41:58You see, whenever I speak all this, I know that a lot of this will not cut ice with many people.
42:14I know that a lot of this will just not make sense to a lot of people.
42:20It won't just reverberate with them.
42:25Only those who already carry some empathy will know what I am saying.
42:33Others will conveniently find loopholes.
42:36And loopholes there are many.
42:38You can quote this, you can quote that.
42:41You can quote some scripture.
42:43You can quote some practice.
42:44You can quote some research paper to disprove what I am saying.
42:47And you can easily do that.
42:50You don't even need to work hard.
42:52If you just want to discredit me or disprove me, do not even bother coming up with a proof.
43:02Just say, I don't want to believe.
43:04And that is sufficient.
43:05Because that's the intention.
43:07If the mind is already made, why do you need to look for proofs?
43:13Proofs are needed when one is honestly exploring for the truth.
43:21If you are already listening to me with a set mind, with preconceived notions, with prejudices,
43:30with the decision already being made, then there is no need to waste time in searching proofs.
43:41Just say, no, I want to kill animals.
43:44I love eating their flesh.
43:47And that is sufficient.
43:48You can continue doing that.
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