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  • 11/29/2023
Calls mount for the Marcos administration to cooperate with the International Criminal Court's drug war probe.

But allies of former President Rodrigo Duterte undermine the resolution filed in the Senate.

The secretary general of the National Union of Peoples' Lawyers-NCR, Kristina Conti, tells us more in the show.

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Transcript
00:00 You're watching The Source on CNN Philippines.
00:07 I'm Mai Rodriguez.
00:09 Senator Rizo Ontiveros echoes previous House resolutions urging the Marcos administration
00:14 to assist in the investigation of the International Criminal Court into the drug war of former
00:20 President Rodrigo Duterte.
00:22 Duterte's allies in the Senate undermine the resolution.
00:27 Senator Aimee Marcos accuses Ontiveros of stirring trouble with unimportant issues,
00:33 while Senator Bato Dela Rosa, who's among the co-accused for his role as PNP chief during
00:39 the bloody drug war, believes it will not gain support in the Senate even at the committee
00:46 level.
00:47 Our source today, National Union of People's Lawyers in NCR, Secretary General and ICC
00:54 Assistant to Council, Christina Conte.
00:57 Good morning, Attorney Christina Conte.
01:00 Yes, good morning.
01:01 First of all, your thoughts on the House resolution and now it has reached the Senate.
01:07 There's a Senate resolution urging the government to cooperate with the ICC.
01:12 Your thoughts?
01:13 Of course, very welcome.
01:18 In cooperation with the ICC, investigation is very important to families of victims of
01:23 the war on drugs because it will ultimately lead to truth and accountability.
01:28 So the efforts from the legislative is timely, especially now that, as we see, it's just
01:34 the executive that's left hanging and uncooperative with the ICC.
01:39 Even the judiciary, we must note that, with the decision in Pagdilinan v. Cayetano, their
01:45 position is that we still have residual obligations from the ICC, from our membership there.
01:51 And therefore, it's just really up to the President to say, "Sige na nga, let's cooperate
01:55 with the ICC, investigation."
01:58 But what kind of impact will these resolutions have to the ICC probe?
02:04 Meron po ba?
02:06 Well, it could be two ways.
02:09 One, it could lead towards or it could push the executive to formally declare its cooperation
02:16 with the ICC and later on that.
02:18 But with regards to the legislative, they can also separately commit to cooperate with
02:26 the ICC investigation, whether the senators in their individual capacities or the Senate
02:33 as a whole.
02:34 In fact, agencies of the government may be asked by the ICC to cooperate with it for
02:41 documents, for interviews.
02:44 And as far as we know, the President has said he will not cooperate, but I don't know how
02:49 binding these decisions or his orders will be on senators who derive their authority,
02:55 their mandate from the people.
02:57 Well, let's go to the latest statement of President Bongbong Marcos.
03:04 He said the government is studying the possibility of rejoining the ICC.
03:11 Do you think this can be done easily?
03:19 Of course we support rejoining the ICC again, but of course it would have prospective application,
03:26 meaning from the time that we rejoin, that would be the signal.
03:31 From that date on, our cooperation with the more formal would be required by the rule
03:38 of statute.
03:41 It will impact if ever crimes will be committed in the future or thereafter from the time
03:46 we rejoin.
03:47 But as to the existing investigation that is now pending or being conducted by the Office
03:56 of the Prosecutor, I would say it would have no material impact.
04:01 This is with the investigation.
04:03 But I would say during trial, if after investigation there are Filipino nationals identified as
04:10 people to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity, then the membership in the ICC will
04:18 allow the member state to execute decisions of the ICC.
04:23 For example, executing a warrant of arrest or holding people accused or convicted in
04:30 detention eventually.
04:33 So these obligations of member states will take effect as soon as we rejoin the ICC.
04:42 So you mean rejoining the ICC means we are now required to cooperate in the probe?
04:49 Not exactly.
04:53 We are obliged already to cooperate with the probe because we were members before of the
05:01 ICC.
05:02 But with regard to other aspects of any decision or proceedings during trial, a member state
05:12 of the ICC can execute important matters.
05:17 For example, issuance and execution of a warrant of arrest and taking into custody a convicted
05:23 defendant.
05:24 So only member states can do that.
05:26 And that is what we cannot do right now.
05:29 We are still required, even if we are no longer members of the ICC, to cooperate.
05:35 But I see your point that being a member of the ICC will really formalize all cooperation,
05:44 whether judicial, legislative, and even executive, with the court.
05:48 Alright.
05:49 Well, have you spoken with the families of drug war victims?
05:53 What do they think about these moves?
05:57 They see it really as politics.
06:02 If you look at people who are speaking out against the cooperation with the ICC, they
06:08 see them as the people who would likely be covered by an investigation.
06:12 And this was admitted by Senator Bato de la Rosa.
06:15 She personally did it because she knows what she is investigating.
06:20 Even Vice President Sara Duterte could come within the scope of the probe because of her
06:26 position as mayor and vice mayor of Davao between 2011 and 2016.
06:32 So they see this as politics and self-preservation.
06:37 In the end, what they really want is what is happening.
06:41 Why are we addressing again issues of jurisdiction when the ICC has already decided to proceed
06:48 with the investigation?
06:50 In any case, they welcome any development or any discussion into the ICC because it
06:57 opens the underlying issues of were there really crimes against humanity committed in
07:04 the Philippines and who should be held to account.
07:07 Even if we're just talking about the ICC and jurisdiction and so forth, if you look
07:11 at things, the bottom line is where is the justice for the victims?
07:15 Okay, we have lots more to talk about, but we have to take a short break.
07:19 This is The Source on CNN Philippines.
07:22 Please stay tuned.
07:30 You're watching The Source on CNN Philippines.
07:32 I'm Maya Rodriguez.
07:33 Our source today, National Union of People's Lawyers, NCR Secretary General and ICC Assistant
07:39 to Council, Cristina Conte.
07:41 Attorney Cristina, now let's talk about rejoining the ICC.
07:47 Does it need Senate concurrence?
07:50 Senator Bato Galarosa says, "Kailangan ito," but Senate President Mig Zubide says, "Only
07:58 President Marcos can make the decision."
08:00 Take us through the process, Attorney, of rejoining the ICC.
08:07 When you join the ICC, it was signed by the President of the Philippines and eventually
08:13 conferred in by the Senate, two-thirds vote, because it is treated or is considered as
08:19 a treaty.
08:20 Therefore, that is why it requires Senate concurrence under our Constitution.
08:26 When we withdrew from the ICC, it was only the President who withdrew and signed the
08:32 declaration.
08:33 Now, there's two points to this, but I would tend to agree with Senator Bato, because the
08:38 ICC has already accepted our withdrawal from the court.
08:43 We would have to rejoin again and thereby bind ourselves again to this treaty, for which
08:49 we would need Senate concurrence again.
08:52 But earlier today, Senator Drilo, the former Senate President, says that the first option
08:58 of just rescinding the decision of the President, former President Duterte, could work.
09:04 I have yet to look into that, but you would have one President rescinding the decision
09:10 of a former President.
09:12 I would have to see if the Supreme Court will stand by that.
09:17 But rejoining the ICC is an important issue, again, with regard to obligations that we
09:25 could or we are not beholden as of now, such as execution or implementation of a warrant
09:30 of arrest.
09:31 Meaning, right now, even if there would be accused persons identified to stand trial
09:41 for crimes against humanity and their communities, if no one will arrest them and take them to
09:46 the Hague for trial, the case won't proceed.
09:50 And so taking them into custody will require the police of a member state to do that.
09:55 Attorney, any communication from the ICC?
09:58 Do you have an update on the progress of the probe?
10:05 It is confidential so far, but I do understand that the ICC is processing information that
10:11 it has already received prior to the opening of the investigation.
10:16 And it is processing information that has come in after it has declared the opening
10:24 of the investigation.
10:26 This involves testimonial and documentary evidence, some of which we have submitted
10:32 to the court ourselves.
10:34 They are processing this information and will get back to us shortly regarding their findings.
10:39 Very quickly, Attorney, Senator Aimee Marcos calls the move of rejoining the ICC as "malaking
10:45 kahihiyan."
10:46 Ang sabi po niya, hindi daw ito priority, it is unimportant at hindi na pa-panahon considering
10:53 the many problems we have.
10:55 Your reaction?
10:56 Nakakalungkot yung ganyang premise.
11:01 At ako, medyo kung magiging malisyo sa kano, it is self-preservation, self-interest again.
11:11 Because the ICC was created precisely to target despots, tyrants, mass murderers, war criminals.
11:19 And isn't this as important as any other issue?
11:24 Joining the ICC might look like it's not important now, malayo sa kitukan, hindi tayo mapapakain
11:33 nan, but it has devastating effects on our system.
11:41 If the ICC could supplement our legal systems with effective mechanisms for the gravest
11:50 crimes against humanity, then perhaps, what is a better world?
11:55 So I hope she doesn't brush aside this issue just because it isn't to her liking at this
12:03 moment.
12:04 All right, thank you so much for your time this morning.
12:07 NUPL in NCR Secretary General and ICC Assistant to Council, Christina Conte.
12:18 And thank you for joining us here on The Source, sitting in for Pinky Webb.
12:21 I'm Mai Rodriguez.
12:23 You're watching CNN Philippines.
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