Manoj Bajpayee on evolution of masculinity in cinema, conscious parenting, chauvinism & stereotypes
In this new episode of The Monologues, Manoj Bajpayee opens up on the evolving role of a man in cinema and in real life, sharing responsibilities at home, the stereotypes surrounding men, and reveals why he is shy and fearful of women.
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00:00 A man does not feel pain.
00:01 This is a line from a Hindi film.
00:03 Why does a man not feel pain?
00:05 He will bite the thorn and scream.
00:07 Yes.
00:07 Right?
00:08 On top of that,
00:09 you are doing stereotyping.
00:12 Secondly, you are forcing him not to express his pain.
00:15 If you are in pain, then share it.
00:18 If you are in pain, then express it.
00:21 Talk to people who are near and dear to you.
00:27 That you feel like crying.
00:29 You feel you are missing your parents.
00:32 You are missing your village.
00:34 If the tears are coming, it will come.
00:37 And don't feel ashamed of it.
00:39 Hi everyone, this is Avinash Lohan and you're watching Pinkvilla.
00:46 My guest today needs no introduction.
00:48 He is someone who I have dearly loved and adored all my life.
00:52 He is an amazing artist, but I think he is a better person.
00:56 Please welcome the supremely talented, Manoj Bajpai.
00:59 Manoj sir, welcome to Pinkvilla.
01:02 Thank you.
01:03 Thank you for doing this.
01:04 I know you do less interviews, so you took out time for us.
01:07 Thank you for that.
01:08 Thank you.
01:08 I do it during promotions.
01:10 Because I can't run away.
01:12 Because most of the films that I do,
01:14 I lead the film.
01:19 So it's difficult to run away.
01:21 Yes.
01:23 So this conversation will be about the evolution of masculinity in cinema.
01:27 And about the roles that you have played and you have challenged that norms
01:31 that is around masculinity in all these years.
01:33 But sir, there is a question before that.
01:35 We discuss a lot about what an ideal man is like.
01:39 But I feel if we define it,
01:42 then we will stereotype it again and put it in a frame.
01:45 Sir, what do you think about this?
01:46 Do you think there is an ideal man?
01:50 There is no such thing as an ideal man or an ideal woman.
01:53 We all try to be an ideal human being.
01:58 But the one who really wants to be one, tries to be one.
02:02 And you constantly see the shortcomings.
02:04 When you try, you can see the shortcomings in yourself.
02:08 So whether it's a man or a woman,
02:10 I don't believe that their gender is male or female,
02:15 that it's an ideal.
02:18 Yes.
02:18 Because first of all, we are human beings.
02:21 Then we have different genders and different cultures.
02:25 When you try to be a good human being,
02:30 then in this attempt,
02:33 you can become an ideal man or an ideal woman.
02:38 Because if you don't have the ability to be a good human being
02:41 and you are very self-obsessed,
02:45 or you are very self-interested,
02:50 then it becomes very difficult to be anything,
02:53 to be any kind of an ideal.
02:55 Yeah.
02:56 But sir, then in our field,
02:57 self-obsession is such a big part of it.
02:59 You know, people are interested in themselves.
03:01 And how do you disconnect yourself?
03:03 Actually, you know,
03:04 I've been thinking about it.
03:07 And actors are always given this license that, you know,
03:12 since it requires to be self-obsessed to be an actor,
03:17 so they can have the license to be self-obsessed.
03:21 I have, I personally, I can say about myself,
03:26 nor am I self-obsessed with myself,
03:31 nor anywhere I put myself on pedestal.
03:38 I know.
03:39 I'm a very unique person and God has made me so different from everyone
03:45 that I get out of my room.
03:46 Everybody is falling in all of me.
03:49 I have never had such a person in my life.
03:52 What is an actor?
03:53 First of all, let's try to understand,
03:55 person who act,
03:56 person who disguises,
03:59 okay,
04:00 person who pretends to be somebody else.
04:04 And how good that pretension is,
04:07 that is what we have to see.
04:09 So when you're trying to be somebody else,
04:12 where does the self-obsession come?
04:14 Wow.
04:15 You are more interested in knowing the other person,
04:20 which is called character.
04:22 You're not trying to understand yourself
04:25 or you're not falling in love with yourself.
04:27 If you try to understand yourself,
04:29 your self-obsession will automatically go away
04:33 because you will see so many aspects of yourself,
04:35 which will be very difficult to look at
04:38 or stare at or to confront.
04:40 Does glamour bring self-obsession for an actor?
04:44 Definitely.
04:47 What happens that,
04:49 and I have seen this all of these years,
04:52 30 years I have been into this industry.
04:54 Many lows and highs I have seen.
04:57 I think very few have seen that kind of lows and highs.
05:00 Highs many have seen, but that kind of lows.
05:05 I have observed about this industry that we are,
05:09 we always try to give this idea of glamour to the people.
05:16 It's not the people who are forcing you
05:20 to give that glamour side of the industry.
05:23 It's you who is giving to them,
05:26 telling them that this is a very shiny
05:31 and bright industry that all of you,
05:35 you know, can fall in love.
05:38 Just for an example, I would say this whole airport look.
05:45 Who started this?
05:47 Correct.
05:48 The industry people started it.
05:50 Yeah.
05:51 OK.
05:52 And the press gave it more.
05:53 And the press wants fodder.
05:56 Yeah.
05:57 They have to run an industry of their own
06:00 and more fodder you give it to them, they will welcome it.
06:03 Yeah.
06:04 Yeah.
06:05 I don't give that fodder to the media.
06:09 So they don't chase me.
06:11 It's very simple.
06:12 Yeah.
06:13 You want to be chased.
06:14 You want to be
06:15 wanted, desired.
06:20 And the best way is to do that.
06:24 You make the media your vehicle.
06:27 OK.
06:30 I'm not interested because I find it too tiring.
06:32 And glamour is something
06:36 it has to do with flamboyance.
06:39 It has to do with self-obsession.
06:42 It has to do with arrogance.
06:45 I'm not interested in any of that.
06:47 I am more interested in how well I can do the part that is given to me.
06:52 Yeah.
06:53 And after that, I don't want people to remember me.
06:58 You know, I just want that part to be enacted well
07:01 and to be appreciated by the like minded and the audience.
07:06 After that, I'm not interested.
07:08 If you ask me, I'll be much more happy doing grocery shopping
07:14 and be completely oblivious like a fly on the wall.
07:19 I can vouch for that.
07:21 I have a story about this.
07:22 I don't remember if you remember this or not, but I came to your house with a colleague.
07:26 And we were sitting and you asked if we wanted to have tea.
07:29 So I said no and my colleague said yes.
07:31 So you went to the kitchen yourself and made tea for us.
07:35 Now, who does that?
07:37 I mean, you're Manoj Bajpai for all of us, but you did that.
07:40 And that really connected me to you on a personal level.
07:43 But I really don't think that it's a big deal.
07:45 Why? Because that's my house.
07:49 And there are some rules
07:51 laid out by my wife.
07:56 Whereas no help will stay at home
08:01 for more than two hours or four hours.
08:05 After that, you should be self-sufficient to entertain your guest
08:10 or an interviewer or a journalist
08:14 or anyone who comes to your place.
08:17 So we do it because this is the way we love it.
08:21 Yeah, we don't want too much of too many people at home in the name of help.
08:28 But we want that privacy and quiet.
08:31 Yeah. So that's what also modern men are today.
08:34 I mean, sharing responsibilities at house.
08:37 If I don't, she will divorce me.
08:40 It's as simple as that.
08:43 So when I'm back from my shoot, I'm not allowed to, you know,
08:48 laze around just because, you know, I had a two month long schedule
08:53 and I kind of done a very difficult character
08:58 and it taken away so much out of me.
09:02 That luxury is not there at home.
09:05 You know, if you have come back, just contribute to the household.
09:09 And without any kind of a question
09:14 and without any kind of
09:17 self obsession.
09:20 OK, you just have to be on the job all the time.
09:24 But I like it. I like
09:28 I like doing my own stuff.
09:29 We all love it.
09:31 All three people are there at home.
09:34 Me, my wife and my child.
09:35 Yes. And now my daughter is in the boarding.
09:38 But we are, we are, we are, we are, you know,
09:42 expected to do our own things. Yeah.
09:46 And take care of the house.
09:47 So, you know, cool manner.
09:49 That was the best tea for me.
09:52 I make good tea.
09:53 You do? You do.
09:55 Sir, you know, I don't know if you've noticed, but January
09:58 2024 is when you complete 30 years in the business.
10:02 I think Bandit Queen, if I'm not wrong, was the first film.
10:05 Jan 1994, it released.
10:07 You played the role of Man Singh in that.
10:09 Sir, in 30 years, how many characters have you played?
10:12 You know, you've played the heartland hero.
10:14 You've played a gay professor.
10:16 You've played a family man to the latest feminist lawyer.
10:19 In this diverse array of roles that you've played.
10:23 So how has the role of a man evolved in all these years?
10:27 And how happy do you feel that it looks like now?
10:29 You know, if you remember Bandit Queen,
10:32 my character always stayed
10:37 behind Phoolan Devi. Yeah. OK.
10:42 From that time till now,
10:44 the recent time that I have done Banda,
10:47 who is fighting for the rights of this,
10:51 you know, young juvenile, young girl who is minor. OK.
10:55 The.
10:59 It's you know, your ideas about
11:03 equality, your ideas about the world,
11:07 it all reflects in the kind of film that you do. Yes.
11:11 And what do you choose?
11:14 Fortunately for me,
11:16 at the cost of
11:19 staying at home for a very long time,
11:22 I mean, at the cost of the huge gap
11:26 between two releases of my two films of mine.
11:28 I know I chose well.
11:32 Yeah, I know I chose well, though it was not paying at all.
11:39 Though it, you know, it took me six,
11:42 seven years from Satya to buy my first house.
11:45 We always managed somehow,
11:49 both me and my wife,
11:52 somehow we manage our life.
11:54 But we were very clear that we will not do anything
11:57 which will not be soul satisfying.
12:00 And we are going to stick to it as much as possible.
12:04 90% of the time I was successful, 10% I was not, because
12:09 sometime
12:12 the going was not good and you have to take care of the kitchen also.
12:17 Yeah.
12:18 And other needs of the family.
12:20 But it has been all in all, you know,
12:25 it, you know, if it ends well, it is all right.
12:31 But I try to stick to my belief system.
12:35 OK. Through my choices.
12:38 I always made sure that I don't do anything.
12:40 Which is, which doesn't go well with my politics.
12:45 OK, so till now, everything is going well.
12:49 So how is it to be a father to a daughter, a growing daughter now,
12:54 where this now the society we are reaching at the point of equality.
12:58 Earlier, this was not at all the case.
12:59 But now we say men and women are equal.
13:01 Are you conscious as a parent that you put these things into,
13:04 you have these conversations with her?
13:06 You know, it comes naturally to me.
13:07 I come from a family where mother dominated.
13:10 Wow.
13:11 And father only, you know, executed what was told to him to execute.
13:16 Never seen my father raising his voice.
13:19 OK. And it was a it was more.
13:23 It was not an equal family, I would say, where my father was equal to my mother.
13:27 No, it was my mother who dictated terms and conditions.
13:31 That was also not healthy.
13:32 Let me tell you, because I personally feel that you can't
13:37 replace power with power.
13:39 Yeah. A balance is required.
13:40 Balance is in equality.
13:43 So you are always looking for that kind of a balance.
13:46 So, you know, you try to listen to each other is far more important than anything else.
13:51 When you when you are listening,
13:54 then you will try to understand the other point of view.
13:58 Yeah.
13:59 Which was not there earlier, even in our films.
14:03 To go back to your first question, masculinity
14:06 has really changed the definition.
14:11 Definition of man.
14:12 Everything has kept on evolving, kept on getting questioned
14:17 by strong opinions.
14:20 Yeah. And it kept on changing itself.
14:23 Yeah. Yeah.
14:24 But I have never seen a more
14:27 liberal person than my father.
14:33 A man I have learnt, I have been learning so much from him
14:37 as how he was with my mother and how he treated my sisters.
14:42 Also, in that comes very nice, because that's that's how we were all brought up.
14:49 Yeah.
14:49 Did you ever get a role that you listened to and read
14:52 and you were like, this is not the man who I can play or who I would want to play?
14:56 Many, many, many, many times.
14:58 Any script who defies the idea
15:03 or the politics
15:06 of Manoj Vashpi, I don't do it.
15:09 So what are these ideas?
15:10 If you can.
15:10 I mean, the kind of definition I have about the politics, about
15:15 the what you call
15:20 chauvinism, any kind of chauvinism.
15:23 There is male chauvinism, there is female chauvinism too.
15:25 Yeah. OK. So an idea about the world.
15:30 OK. I try to stay away from any kind of war movie.
15:36 One film I was part of that was L.O.C.
15:39 Yes. And it used to disturb me because I always feel that
15:43 the consequence of war is never winning or losing.
15:46 It's always human life.
15:49 OK. That I try to, it disturbs me.
15:54 So all of these things, you know, if the woman is being,
15:59 you know, showcased in a very improper way and not the right way
16:03 or that showcasing doesn't, you know, match with my politics, my idea.
16:10 Definitely I don't do it.
16:12 But I don't say these things.
16:14 I always say that if you want to know the politics
16:16 and the idea of an actor or the creative person,
16:21 look at their choices. Yeah.
16:23 You know, you'll find it.
16:24 Yeah. And with your needs clear.
16:25 And he doesn't he or she doesn't need to be a Twitter activist.
16:29 Yeah. I don't want to be.
16:31 I don't don't want to be a social media activist.
16:33 If my work or my filmography doesn't, you know, doesn't
16:38 voice it loudly, loud enough.
16:42 Then too bad.
16:44 No, I don't think that's happening at all.
16:46 It's loud and clear of what you've always tried to convey in the last 30 years.
16:50 So, you know, when I was growing up, one thing I used to hear a lot was
16:55 "A boy can't cry when he falls,
16:57 a boy can't say this, a boy can't say that."
16:59 Did this happen to you?
17:02 A man doesn't feel pain.
17:03 Now, there's a line in a Hindi film.
17:06 Why doesn't a man feel pain?
17:08 He'll pinch a thorn and scream.
17:09 Yes.
17:10 Right?
17:11 On top of that,
17:12 you're stereotyping.
17:14 Secondly, you're forcing him not to express his pain.
17:18 And why can't he express his pain?
17:21 Women express their pain.
17:23 Yes.
17:24 Whether it's anger,
17:25 or a very vulnerable emotion inside them.
17:28 But they're mentally very tough.
17:32 That's why.
17:32 Because they're always considered as a weaker sex.
17:35 But mentally, they're so tough that I always feel that they're considered as a weaker sex.
17:39 Absolutely.
17:40 A man can scream with a mace,
17:41 with a bow and arrow,
17:46 but he can hit with his brain.
17:48 That's why I don't consider them as a weaker sex.
17:51 Yes.
17:52 Sir, are you expressive as a man?
17:54 At home?
17:55 No, not as a man.
17:57 As a human being, I have never been.
17:58 I have always been a very introverted person.
18:02 But anybody can be introverted.
18:06 A woman can be introverted.
18:07 But I think it's only my daughter and my wife.
18:12 They can really poke me, irritate me.
18:15 And they really force me to react and respond.
18:23 But I do well.
18:24 I do well, quite well.
18:26 I express myself with the people that I'm comfortable with.
18:32 But that's something you don't expect me to express myself on social media,
18:37 day in, day out, or with strangers.
18:41 I express myself with my immediate family.
18:44 And I think I do quite well there.
18:48 Yeah.
18:48 The reason I ask is because this is also a stereotype,
18:51 that a man is not expressive, he is quiet.
18:54 I don't know why.
18:56 I've seen many girls who are quiet.
18:59 Quite introverted.
19:01 Yeah.
19:01 So I'm also introverted.
19:04 There is a...
19:05 I don't see any difference between...
19:09 These are all characters.
19:11 Yeah.
19:11 But the thing is that a man doesn't feel pain.
19:16 If someone is quiet because of that,
19:18 then that's stereotyping.
19:20 He is harming himself.
19:22 He is harming his health.
19:24 Yes.
19:25 If you are in pain, then share it.
19:27 If you are in pain, then express it.
19:30 Talk to people who are near and dear to you.
19:37 That you feel like crying.
19:38 You feel you are missing your parents.
19:42 You are missing your village.
19:44 If the tears are coming, it will come.
19:47 And don't feel ashamed of it.
19:49 Yeah.
19:49 Do you cry?
19:50 I do, definitely.
19:52 But what happens is that...
19:54 Sometimes I...
19:58 My daughter wanted to see me crying.
20:02 And I said, "Yeah, I..."
20:05 Nowadays I cry very rarely.
20:07 So I don't know when you will see it.
20:10 But she was very curious as to how a father will cry.
20:13 And when I reached home,
20:17 just when my father passed away,
20:22 and I was holding my mother and I was crying,
20:26 she was just looking at me.
20:29 "Oh, my father is crying.
20:34 How is he looking crying?"
20:35 And then she was imitating me the next day.
20:37 Oh!
20:38 Only daughters are allowed to do this.
20:42 That's true.
20:44 I have not told you this in person,
20:45 Sir, Banda, what a film!
20:47 Thank you.
20:47 You know, after we saw it,
20:48 we came to office and all of us...
20:50 We discussed it scene by scene,
20:52 what it was, how it was,
20:53 the climax scene at the end.
20:55 So what a scene, what a film!
20:57 Do you think you are closer to that character?
21:01 As a feminist, do you call yourself a feminist?
21:04 No, I don't call myself anything.
21:08 No.
21:10 No labeling?
21:11 No, I don't believe in this,
21:13 any kind of ism at all.
21:15 OK, if there is any ism that
21:18 you really want me to have, it's humanism.
21:20 OK, I look at things
21:24 as to how much fair they are.
21:28 Is it fair or is it not fair?
21:31 OK, so every decision of mine
21:36 is based on that.
21:38 Every opinion of mine or idea
21:41 is based on, is it fair or not?
21:46 So I'm looking for fairness.
21:48 OK, so and that is why
21:52 I don't give myself any tag.
21:54 I was shooting for Rahul Chitela's Gulmohar
21:58 and I was talking to him and he's a
22:03 he's a very liberal person.
22:04 And I haven't seen
22:06 a modern woman or a man as
22:10 fierce as him, who is really
22:16 you know, looking for women equality.
22:20 OK.
22:21 And and he was when he
22:28 he comes across as a person
22:30 who would never write it on in social media,
22:33 who is somewhere I feel that
22:35 we are very similar to each other.
22:37 One day, he kept, production kept a party
22:42 in one of the breaks and
22:45 and they all dragged me to the dance floor.
22:48 And I was, you know, kind of shaking and dancing mildly.
22:51 And suddenly I realized that 60 percent of the crew members
22:56 were all girls.
22:57 Wow. OK.
23:00 And then I took him on the side.
23:02 I said, you know, so many girls
23:04 are your team members,
23:07 you know, from production to direction to costume.
23:10 The editor was Tanu
23:13 and she has done a remarkable job.
23:15 And I congratulated him.
23:18 I said, man, you just
23:22 you've done what you believe in.
23:25 Yeah. You are the person that who is not
23:29 who doesn't have contradiction.
23:32 I saw so many men and women.
23:34 They are just saying it for the sake of saying it in the media to you
23:38 to many other interviewers.
23:40 They say big things when it comes to really executing
23:44 and doing it in their own life.
23:46 They fail. That's so true.
23:48 But there is Rahul Chittela, who is for me, he's the person
23:52 and he's not compromised on the talent of those people.
23:56 Yeah. Just because he wanted to give chance to more women.
23:59 No, he found those women who are as talented as
24:03 the other male counterpart or more talented in their department.
24:10 You know, so I want people to really
24:13 do things rather than just talk about it
24:19 in their interviews and on social media.
24:22 You're right, sir.
24:23 You are right.
24:24 Many people have told me this sitting on the same seat.
24:27 And how important it is that there is a balance in the crew.
24:30 But I heard this for the first time.
24:31 I didn't know it was like this on Gulmohar's set.
24:33 He is the man that I learned from.
24:35 He is the man that me and my wife and me,
24:39 you know, love to sit with and chat with.
24:41 There are not many people who come to our house, but he's somebody who
24:46 who inspires us.
24:48 You know, Rahul Chittela is the person and that he's much younger to me.
24:52 But I learned a few things from him about life,
24:55 about the definition of equality.
25:00 Yeah. OK. All of that.
25:02 And we chat a lot about politics of the world, about politics of our industry,
25:07 about the contradictions in men and women here,
25:12 the modern men and modern women, all of that.
25:16 Yeah. And I find it quite fascinating and enchanting.
25:19 Yeah. True. No, absolutely.
25:21 Those who have not seen Gulmohar, my viewers, please should go and see it.
25:24 And Joram too. And Joram too.
25:26 Joram. Joram. Please watch it on 8th December.
25:30 It's one of the greatest films that I've been part of.
25:35 Yeah. And Devasheesh Makhija has done a remarkable job.
25:38 So if you don't watch it,
25:40 then go and watch the bad film and don't cry after that.
25:43 Because there will be a choice of Joram.
25:45 Absolutely. Can't wait. Can't wait to see that.
25:47 So last question, because we have been filled with a stereotype since childhood.
25:52 If you get a chance, sir, to go to a 12, 13, 14 year old Manoj Bachpe
25:56 and give an idea about manhood, what would you like to tell him?
25:59 What would I like to tell him?
26:05 Not very funny answer came to my mind.
26:07 My father has put me, put us in an all boys school.
26:11 I would tell him that, please, you know, Manoj, just go ahead and try out the Covid one.
26:16 It's so interesting.
26:19 No wonder you are so shy around women.
26:22 Yeah, it's because of that. Not only about that, because my father was quite a...
26:26 My mother was a very, quite dictatorial kind of a woman.
26:32 OK, and so all brothers, I mean, I was always very shy, very introverted,
26:42 always seeking answer inside my head.
26:46 I could just walk, walk, walk and still not feel bored or tired
26:51 because I was always thinking, OK, something or the other.
26:55 But what my mother has done that
27:01 apart from going to a boys school, that she made me fear of women.
27:07 You know, she made me very fearful of women, you know.
27:12 So either I feel very shy of them or I'm always very fearful of them.
27:17 No, but I can keep, I know you have time constraints.
27:23 I can talk for another two hours.
27:24 Why two hours? I'll get tired.
27:26 I know you have more.
27:28 But, sir, thank you so much.
27:29 Like I said right in the beginning, I know you're very busy.
27:31 I know you don't like to do interviews, but you did this for me.
27:34 Thank you so much.
27:35 Thank you. Thank you very much.
27:38 If you like this interview, please like, share and subscribe Pinkvilla.
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