- 8/19/2023
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NewsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Hello, and welcome to this edition of Brandsmiths,
00:08 where we have insightful conversations
00:11 at the intersection of business, technology, marketing,
00:15 and brands.
00:16 And today on BQ Prime Brandsmiths,
00:19 we have with us Suraj Balkrishnan, who is currently
00:22 the head of marketing at Acer India,
00:24 and Suraj oversees Acer India and Bangladesh,
00:28 as well as the Bhutan markets.
00:30 Suraj is responsible for the entire product portfolio
00:33 at Acer, which includes PCs, tablets, monitors, projectors,
00:38 audio, and going down to air purifiers, and smart IoT
00:42 devices for consumer, education, enterprise, government,
00:46 and banking customers.
00:50 In his capacity, he drives brand preference,
00:52 customer acquisitions, product marketing,
00:55 and strategic alliances.
00:56 Suraj also leads all GTM marketing efforts
00:59 for the brand across both offline and online channels.
01:03 Suraj in his past avatars has worked
01:05 across some iconic brands in India
01:07 and has established new categories
01:08 across PCs and automobiles during his advertising
01:12 and marketing career.
01:13 And he's a seasoned professional who
01:15 has spearheaded multiple award-winning campaigns.
01:18 As a marketing leader, Suraj is leading the Acer brand
01:22 in this new normal and establishing new go-to-market
01:25 strategies and marketing models to reflect the changing
01:28 consumer behaviors, as well as driving
01:30 the next chapter of marketing excellence and growth.
01:34 So we really look forward to an exciting conversation here.
01:37 And welcome, Suraj, to BQ Prime Brandsmiths.
01:40 So Suraj, thank you so much for being here today.
01:43 And I really wanted to start off by talking
01:47 about the company you represent, the brand you represent.
01:50 And I know you work for many brands in the past,
01:53 some very interesting brands.
01:54 But Acer, right?
01:55 Acer is a very interesting tech company.
01:58 It's one of the oldest tech companies out there.
02:01 Sometimes people don't realize it.
02:04 It's very well-known in many, many categories.
02:07 It's one of the largest tech companies.
02:09 But it was a company that was born in the pre-digital era.
02:14 It's a very respected brand and still remains today.
02:16 But from this issue of being born in the pre-digital era,
02:21 how does really marketing evolve?
02:23 How do you stay true to your roots, in a way?
02:26 And how do you, as the marketing leader, as the CM of Acer,
02:31 how did you move a traditional brand
02:33 to an omni-central brand that wins in the digital era?
02:37 Right.
02:38 I think, like you rightly said, globally, we
02:42 are almost a 45-year-old brand.
02:45 In India, we set up our operations in 1999.
02:49 So we are almost hitting our silver jubilee, 25 years.
02:53 In the country, all the latest buzzwords in marketing--
03:00 Martek, the tools, performance marketing, Omni-channel,
03:04 Endless I/L-- all of them were too alien for us
03:10 during those days.
03:11 So from being a very traditional brand
03:15 to now being the forefront, having Omni-channel, Endless
03:19 I/L, CRM modules, all kinds of Martek tools, analytics,
03:26 listening tools, all of that.
03:28 So we have come a long way in that sense
03:32 over the past couple of years.
03:34 And most of them, I mean, pandemic definitely
03:37 helped transition a lot of the adoption of tools,
03:43 maybe you can say.
03:46 But what's important is we have always
03:49 been very down-to-earth, humane kind of a brand,
03:53 although we are at the cutting edge of technology.
03:56 What we have always believed is, how do we
03:59 help people break barriers using our technology?
04:03 So right from how we design, how we price,
04:07 what kind of products we bring to the market, all of them
04:10 really touch upon these principles.
04:13 So I mean, it sounds cliched, but we
04:18 want to put people at the center of everything we do.
04:22 And in the pre, let's say, the digital era or the Martek era,
04:31 I mean, we had a lot of methods like your traditional print
04:38 and TV and your outdoor radio, maybe a bit of digital here
04:44 and there.
04:45 I mean, those were predominantly what we do.
04:49 But in the past, I think, three, four years,
04:52 I think what we have done--
04:54 and also thanks to our D2C website as well.
04:58 Data is so important for everything we do these days.
05:03 And what we understood was that when
05:08 we have our own digital channel, like our own D2C website,
05:12 the amount of understanding of how a customer completed
05:16 the journey, the way he first interacted with our brand,
05:21 right up till completion of his transaction with us,
05:27 we are able to understand the journey a lot better.
05:30 And that really helped us to really tailor
05:33 make a lot of our products, not only just marketing,
05:36 but even our products, to understand
05:41 what are the pain points, what are the elements
05:46 he looks forward to when he interacts with us,
05:49 what are the preference of touch points which he has.
05:52 So we have endless aisle as well,
05:55 like I touched upon, where even if the customer goes to a store
05:58 and the store still doesn't carry a stock,
06:01 he can easily purchase the product from the store
06:04 using our website.
06:06 And it gets delivered to him.
06:07 So our partner benefits, our customer benefits,
06:11 he can start a transaction on our website,
06:13 complete the transaction at the partner store.
06:16 Because still many Indians still want
06:18 to have a physical touch and feel about the product
06:20 or understand that there is a physical store nearby in case
06:24 he has any concerns about reaching out to the brand
06:28 again.
06:29 So all of these tools helps us to integrate our brand much more
06:34 and reinforce our mission to put people at the center
06:40 and help them break barriers in whatever they do.
06:44 Suraj, you mentioned a lot about customer centricity.
06:48 And obviously, that's very important.
06:50 And you mentioned a lot about how you are driving it.
06:54 Now, obviously, customer centricity,
06:57 building a very personalized customer experience
06:59 is very, very important in this dramatically changing
07:04 landscape.
07:05 So what do you see as a role of technology,
07:07 now you all being a tech company,
07:08 in this, in building personalized customer
07:11 experience?
07:11 And how especially can AI today, because AI
07:14 is at the forefront today.
07:16 We're seeing lots more use cases of AI.
07:18 How is AI really helping you do this?
07:21 Yeah, I mean, these days, customers
07:25 expect the brand to know them when they interact with us.
07:29 So right when they call us, maybe after purchase,
07:32 they want to get in touch with us in customer support,
07:36 or they want to have some other product they want to buy,
07:40 they want to extend their warranty.
07:42 All of them, they expect the brand
07:44 to know them when they call or when
07:46 they get in touch with us.
07:48 So we have a whole set of tools.
07:51 And this is thanks to technology.
07:54 So we are able to understand with unique identifiers
07:57 when a customer touch base with us,
08:00 we know where did he purchase from, what did he purchase,
08:04 how old his device is, what is the specification
08:08 of the device, et cetera, et cetera.
08:10 So when he wants to, for example,
08:12 purchase a complimentary product from our website
08:16 or from our store, we exactly know what product he's carrying.
08:20 So if he's carrying a gaming laptop,
08:24 it's important that we recommend a gaming accessory to him
08:28 than a general accessory, a non-gaming accessory.
08:32 Because this ensures that it's relevant for him.
08:37 We are selling the right product.
08:40 We don't show something which he's not interested in.
08:44 And the whole journey is also shorter,
08:46 and he goes away a more satisfied customer.
08:51 This is also relevant even when he purchases warranty.
08:54 So when his warranty is about to expire, we know that.
08:56 And we are able to send an excellent warranty package.
09:01 When his device is, say, three years old,
09:04 we know that it's due for an upgrade.
09:06 So then we send out a loyalty bonus
09:08 because he's an existing customer.
09:10 And then he can come to our store and purchase a laptop.
09:15 Or when he comes and visits our website,
09:18 even before he becomes a customer, for example,
09:23 he is from, say, Kerala, for example.
09:27 So we are able to show customized offers
09:30 which is applicable to that region
09:32 so that it's easier for him.
09:33 We kind of also tailor-make the language.
09:36 So vernacular languages are also very important these days,
09:41 especially in certain parts of our country.
09:44 So depending on where the person is coming from
09:47 to our D2C website,
09:49 we are then able to tailor-make communication
09:52 as per the language
09:53 which he is probably most comfortable with.
09:55 So that's something we do quite a lot,
09:57 which is customization.
09:59 And if he's a registered audience with us,
10:04 even if he's not a customer, if he's registered with us,
10:06 then we know we personalize and we send out,
10:10 you know, "Hey" or "Good evening," the name.
10:14 So that's all possible because we have the data, right?
10:17 So I feel it's very important for a customer
10:21 to know that, one, the brand cares about him,
10:24 and secondly, that brand knows what he wants.
10:27 And that generally helps the customer
10:29 to complete the transaction much better.
10:32 - So one question I had from this is,
10:35 you know, on much of this journey,
10:37 personalization or really understanding
10:39 more about the customer,
10:40 cookies have been a very important part of it, right?
10:44 And especially even in media for us,
10:48 like we depend a lot on third-party cookies,
10:51 also.
10:52 So given that, you know, third-party cookies are going away,
10:56 how do you all really deal with it?
10:58 And what do you also have to say to other marketers
11:00 who are also grappling with the same challenge
11:03 when it comes to fulfilling the complete customer journey
11:05 now that they often don't have these tools with them?
11:09 - Yeah, I think the dependency on third-party cookie
11:12 will have to be reduced as we go forward
11:16 and completely kind of gone away by the end of this year
11:19 or beginning of next year.
11:20 So Google, Apple, all of them are very serious
11:23 about removing third-party cookies.
11:25 And as marketers, you know, all our digital lives,
11:29 we have been depending on cookies to kind of target people,
11:32 retarget them, you know, personalized,
11:36 programmatic, all sorts of, you know,
11:39 digital marketing avenues are built around cookies.
11:42 So now I think what's important is that one,
11:46 you know, you have your customer data,
11:49 which is kind of centralized and ready to be used
11:54 for communication purposes.
11:58 So first-party data, what you have
12:00 will be very important for you.
12:01 Having a website of your own,
12:03 which gives you the access to first-party data
12:06 and then start building look-like audience
12:10 using the first-party data, which you have,
12:13 and ensuring that when a customer is kind of looking
12:19 for your brand, you know, you are ready to serve
12:23 a lot more personalized ads using AI as well.
12:26 So I think a mix of AI, which helps to kind of customize
12:31 your communication using first-party data,
12:34 which kind of helps you to also build look-like audience,
12:37 which also means that, you know,
12:39 you kind of pull in all your data from all sources
12:43 so that you have the largest set of data
12:46 to then build for the look-like audience.
12:48 And definitely using AI more effectively
12:52 to show ads, which are more relevant.
12:55 For example, you know, when somebody is booking a ticket,
13:00 flight ticket, so it's more relevant to show an ad
13:05 of a laptop, which talks about lightweight,
13:08 you know, easy to carry, long battery life at that moment
13:12 than showing something which is not relevant of that genre
13:15 of that journey.
13:17 'Cause he's right now at a stage of booking a flight.
13:20 If it's an international flight,
13:21 then it's even more relevant.
13:23 So the such instances, you know, you pick up
13:27 and then you have AI modeling to kind of intelligently show
13:31 the ad and communication as per the user journey
13:36 will be very important to kind of ensure that,
13:40 you know, you don't look at only third-party cookie,
13:43 but more of what apps he uses, where he is currently
13:47 in terms of his digital journey,
13:50 and then show relevant ads using AI.
13:52 We have done an ad for our air purifier range.
13:57 So when Delhi and North region, especially,
13:59 was going through bad air quality index,
14:03 we picked up data from the weather app
14:05 and showed wherever the air quality was really bad,
14:08 we showed an ad for air purifier,
14:10 looking at the current air quality index.
14:12 So we put the air quality index
14:14 and then that became the headline.
14:16 And then we showed the ad for air purifier.
14:19 So that should be that kind of, you know,
14:21 communication will be more relevant now that, you know,
14:25 we have less of the audience data per se
14:27 to understand where exactly is.
14:29 And definitely, I mean, using your own data,
14:32 your own website, more effectively building the data lake
14:36 or the data platform to make use of look-alike audiences,
14:40 all of that should help as we move along
14:43 and produce dependencies on third-party data.
14:47 - Well, thank you for explaining that, Suraj.
14:49 That was, I think, really insightful.
14:51 And I think also, you know, when you spoke about how,
14:54 in your own D2C journey,
14:57 the kind of data that you all get.
15:00 But I think more importantly, also the fact that, you know,
15:03 what really impressed me was the fact
15:04 that you can start your journey online
15:06 and then complete it offline, right?
15:09 That is often the missing part in most customer experiences
15:13 because we can start a journey online,
15:15 but we go back to a shop
15:17 and we start everything from scratch, right?
15:19 From the price to everything, right?
15:22 While if you can do that seamlessly,
15:24 I think that helps a lot.
15:26 One more thing I wanted to ask you was that, you know,
15:30 in the segment that you all operate in,
15:33 you all are very unique because, you know,
15:35 let's say in FMCG, if I'm buying something
15:38 and comparing two brands,
15:40 let's say detergent or something like that,
15:43 you know, there's always a chance
15:44 that they can get me again, right?
15:46 With maybe better advertising,
15:48 with a better messaging or something like that.
15:51 But, you know, in technology,
15:54 you know, the lifecycle is around three years minimum.
15:57 That's a PC refresh lifecycle.
16:00 So from an Acer perspective
16:02 and from what you've done over here,
16:04 how do you really win back customers
16:07 given this very long lifecycle per se?
16:10 - Yeah, I mean, that's a very good question
16:12 because unlike many of the FMCG brands,
16:15 we only get one shot at the customer
16:18 and after he makes a decision,
16:19 then we lost him for the next couple of years.
16:24 So that's where, you know, more and more personalization
16:27 and more and more understanding of your customer,
16:31 ensuring that, you know, technology comes into play
16:35 where like you said,
16:36 where if he does some browsing
16:38 and shortly some product online,
16:41 he can complete the transaction offline.
16:42 Or if he goes to an offline store
16:45 and if he didn't have the omni-channel system,
16:48 then he say, if the stock is not available
16:52 in the offline store,
16:53 then naturally the customer walks out of the store
16:56 without completing the transaction.
16:58 So, but with this current model, for example,
17:02 you know, even if the product is not available
17:04 right now at the store,
17:06 he can still get the product,
17:08 complete the transaction store
17:09 and the product gets delivered to him in a single day.
17:12 And we have delivery across 20,000 pin codes.
17:16 So it's any part of the country
17:18 we can definitely reach in terms of delivering our product.
17:21 So not losing a customer is very important.
17:26 And that means knowing him, knowing that customer,
17:30 has he transacted with us before?
17:32 Is he a new customer?
17:33 Is he new to the brand?
17:34 As if he has already used the product,
17:36 then it's easier for him to understand
17:39 what we are all about.
17:40 And obviously our social reputation
17:43 is also very important, right?
17:44 So we have to ensure that one,
17:48 if there is any negative conversation around the brand,
17:52 that has to be addressed very quickly.
17:54 So our ORM is very strong.
17:56 We have a large social ORM team,
17:59 which responds to all the kind of comments
18:01 and all the brand, public brand forums we have,
18:06 so that there is very, very less negative
18:11 and more positive talk around the brand.
18:15 And that's something we track very closely.
18:19 It's just not the fact about performance marketing
18:21 or just the, you know,
18:23 you know, my tech tools only.
18:26 This social listing is also a very important part
18:29 of our whole brand reputation platform,
18:31 because if a customer feels that this brand
18:35 is not worth investing his money,
18:36 and that's not a small money as well, right?
18:38 Unlike, again, like a detergent
18:40 or any of the FMCG products, which cost you a hundred rupees,
18:43 this is at least 30, 40,000 rupees at minimum,
18:46 and it's all high tech.
18:47 So definitely that means that, you know,
18:51 he should be very confident about the brand.
18:53 We also do a lot of community activities,
18:57 community when I mean community,
18:58 for example, a gamer community activity,
19:01 or it could be about how we reach out to, you know,
19:04 the workforce, we reach out to student community.
19:07 So we do a lot of activities with them
19:08 to kind of ensure that our brand is, you know,
19:13 imbibed in their culture as well,
19:16 because it's not a very transactional relationship
19:20 what we have with the customer, right?
19:22 So even after he buys a laptop,
19:24 we have regular contacts with them,
19:27 various ways to ensure that he's in touch with our brand,
19:31 right from offering discounts on his occasions
19:33 to giving out certain, you know, privilege programs,
19:37 which only an Acer customer can attend.
19:40 So a lot of these, you know, extra, you know,
19:44 benefits which a customer gets also ensures that
19:47 when he decides to purchase it again,
19:49 he always looks at our product,
19:52 including, you know, very good loyalty bonuses
19:54 and all of that.
19:55 So even if he's an existing customer,
19:58 ensuring we don't lose out,
19:59 if he, once he plans to upgrade or he's a new customer,
20:03 it's all important that, you know,
20:04 we understand him very well.
20:06 We don't give him an opportunity to walk away
20:09 from our store or our website.
20:11 You know, all our social reputation is taken care.
20:17 We have a lot of positive talk around the brand.
20:21 So all of that kind of helps that, you know,
20:23 when a customer finally decides to purchase,
20:25 he feels comfortable buying an Acer laptop
20:27 or any of our other products.
20:30 - So, you know, you mentioned performance marketing
20:32 and my next question is on that.
20:34 You know, that is often a huge challenge, right?
20:38 Building the bridge between brand and the performance.
20:41 So in your opinion,
20:42 how can we better measure marketing effectiveness?
20:46 And, you know, can you tell me a little bit
20:48 about what you all have done in this space also?
20:50 - So I think one point which I wanted to kind of highlight
20:54 here is that a lot of people get caught up
20:57 only in about performance marketing
20:58 because there is always a pressure from your sales folks,
21:01 your leadership team to ensure that, you know,
21:04 your marketing contributes to the sale immediately.
21:07 And that's a trap a lot of marketers fall for.
21:11 But if you look at data, I mean,
21:13 mostly 95% of your audience is not at that moment
21:18 planning to buy a product of yours.
21:22 I mean, out of that only five to 6%
21:24 is actually in market to buy a product.
21:27 So the 95% potential audience are missing out
21:31 on your brand exposure, right?
21:33 So the balance between brand marketing
21:35 and performance marketing is one very important.
21:38 So for brand, for example,
21:41 you have to always have an eye about your share of voice.
21:45 And when you mean share of voice,
21:46 it's about people searching for your brand in Google
21:49 or it could be about inquiries coming,
21:52 but definitely Google is a good platform for you
21:54 to kind of track how many people
21:56 are actually searching about you.
21:58 And in our case, even Amazon and Flipkart
22:01 is also another indicator
22:02 because they're also large platforms for us.
22:05 But ensuring that that share of voice continues to increase
22:10 is something which, you know,
22:13 any marketer should have a close eye on,
22:16 or at least it doesn't dip
22:17 if even if you have reached a threshold for share of voice.
22:21 Secondly, about performance marketing,
22:23 I think definitely I think the most important part
22:25 is return on your ad spends, right?
22:27 But that's also inversely also looking at CPC,
22:33 cost per click.
22:34 So if your cost per click is very high,
22:36 then you are not, you know,
22:38 efficiently optimized for your campaign.
22:40 So performance marketing, the ROAS is very important.
22:45 But again, what I'm insisting or stressing
22:48 is the fact that the ROAS is also a fact
22:52 of people searching for your brand.
22:54 It's more costly to bid and win against
22:58 a competitive keyword or a category keyword
23:02 than your own keyword.
23:04 So more and more people start searching for your brand
23:07 means your performance marketing costs will come down
23:10 and general cost of advertising or sales
23:13 will also come down.
23:15 So that's very important.
23:17 And these days, I think performance marketing
23:20 is not only a Google or e-commerce platform.
23:24 We have a lot of other channels, including, you know,
23:27 influencers are also now driving performance marketing
23:30 these days because, you know, they promote our product.
23:33 They sometimes give a description at the bottom
23:36 and a link to go and purchase from our website or a store.
23:40 So they also kind of act as a performance marketing medium.
23:43 So the blur or the line has been blurring
23:47 between what is a brand
23:48 and a performance marketing campaign.
23:51 But at a overall level, when I look at it,
23:55 I kind of segregate clearly between what drives my SOV
23:59 and what drives my sales.
24:01 'Cause that's very important
24:02 for any marketer to actually track.
24:05 - Thank you for that insight, Suraj.
24:06 My final question is on a trend
24:09 that's become very, very hot now,
24:12 account-based marketing, especially in the tech space.
24:16 I wanted to find out about, you know,
24:18 how you see this entire trend evolving.
24:22 And do you feel that sales and marketing
24:24 are on the same page as the customer
24:26 when it comes to account-based marketing?
24:28 - Yeah, I mean, account-based marketing
24:30 is something which we do quite a lot for our B2B business.
24:35 So like you said, that involves a lot of hand and glove
24:41 working with our sales folks
24:42 because the requirement comes from sales
24:46 to understand which are the accounts
24:47 which are important for them.
24:49 Right, that's one part of it.
24:50 The second part is ensuring that we grow our business
24:54 from our existing accounts.
24:56 So there is a new account and there is an existing account.
24:58 So both we look at in terms of an account-based marketing.
25:02 So when you look at a new account,
25:04 you know, we are obviously trying to get our foot
25:07 into the door and kind of have a meeting with them,
25:11 have at least a round of conversation
25:13 and kind of pitch our products, right?
25:14 So this involves a lot of understanding
25:17 about what the company is about,
25:19 what are the current challenges the company is facing.
25:23 And then that involves following news about the company,
25:26 the product lines, the ethos of the company.
25:30 So it's just not that we send out an ad
25:31 or communication on LinkedIn,
25:33 but kind of understand exactly what the company
25:36 is all about and the ethos
25:37 and like the challenge they might be facing,
25:39 especially from a tech point of view.
25:41 And then we tailor communication to that decision maker,
25:46 which catches his attention.
25:48 So that's very important because at a CIO
25:53 or a procurement head level,
25:55 he must be getting hundreds of communications.
25:57 So one is that being relevant to him.
26:01 Secondly, we being a thought leader,
26:04 kind of a brand helps the potential customer
26:09 to kind of look for our inputs on their tech needs.
26:13 So that's also very important.
26:14 So we work with various large research companies
26:19 and consulting companies,
26:22 and we bring out white papers,
26:24 which are accessible to only those decision makers
26:29 who have subscribed to us.
26:30 So this gives us a platform where,
26:32 they see us as a thought leader.
26:33 And then when we go and tell them or ask for a call,
26:37 they are more receptive to doing that.
26:39 So a deep understanding of who we are going behind
26:44 and a lot of studies revolved around
26:47 this kind of marketing.
26:50 The second is people who are already our customer
26:54 and ensuring that we grow our business with such accounts.
26:58 So that's more of ensuring that we are constantly
27:02 updating them with our services, our product lines.
27:07 Many of the times what happens is that,
27:09 you do one transaction and they buy a large quantity
27:12 of products from us,
27:13 but then we don't go back to them
27:14 and kind of tell them what else do we have,
27:17 or kind of keep them updated on what's happening,
27:20 have dedicated programs,
27:22 which are revolving around their company,
27:25 which could be specific programs
27:28 where we have troubleshooting for their employees,
27:31 or it could be about specific programs
27:33 where ITDMs are decision makers involved,
27:36 which are specific to those group of companies
27:39 we are targeting.
27:40 So a lot of tailor-made activities,
27:43 which kind of helps them to have our product
27:46 or our brand on top of the mind is very important.
27:50 We also use a bit of AI as well,
27:53 because some of the automated emailers,
27:57 which goes out to them also looks into these instances
28:01 and then tailor-makes some of the communication
28:03 where we don't intervene every time
28:06 and some of the things become automated service itself.
28:10 But most importantly,
28:13 it's all about knowing them really well,
28:16 much more than a B2C customer,
28:18 because here the information is first of all available
28:23 because they are usually large,
28:25 industries are known.
28:27 We have limited set of target audience
28:30 because they are at an IT decision maker level,
28:33 which means that,
28:34 whatever we communicate are tailor-made and relevant.
28:38 And they see us as thought leaders
28:40 than just another company trying to sell their product.
28:45 - Well, thank you once again, Suraj.
28:47 I think we've had an exciting conversation today.
28:51 It's been very insightful.
28:53 We've dealt with so many aspects.
28:55 One about your own journey at Acer,
28:57 Acer's journey to the digital era
29:01 and how you all have really not just,
29:03 not just compete over there,
29:05 but how you lead over there with what you all do.
29:08 We've looked a lot at AI
29:09 and how it plays a huge role
29:11 in different aspects of marketing.
29:13 We've looked at third-party cookies,
29:16 we've looked at performance marketing
29:17 and of course at account-based marketing.
29:20 Thank you so much for your time today
29:22 on BQ Prime Brandsmiths,
29:24 which is at the intersection of brand,
29:27 marketing, technology, and business.
29:29 This was a really insightful conversation
29:31 and we look forward to talking with you soon once again.
29:34 Thank you so much.
29:35 - Thank you, Ayewolds.
29:36 Been a pleasure talking to you.
29:37 (upbeat music)
29:40 (upbeat music)
29:42 you
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