Who is the true Jesus? ( Rebuttals - 3 of 4 )

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Is Jesus Christ God or just a prophet? What does the Bible say about the identity of Jesus Christ? Why is the question over Jesus' true identity so important? What do Muslims believe about Jesus? Is he a prophet or more than a prophet? In October 2000, the Faith & Science Lecture Forum hosted an engagement to discuss the question, "Who is the true Jesus?" Peggy Wehmeyer, former religion correspondent for ABC News, moderated the debate. Representing the Muslim perspective was Shabir Ally: Shabir Ally has earned a B.A. in Religious Studies from Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario, with a specialization in Biblical Literature, and an M.A. in Religious Studies from the University of Toronto with a specialization in Quranic Exegesis. He is now in his fourth year of Ph.D studies in Quranic Exegesis at the University of Toronto. He is the president of the Islamic Information & Dawah Centre International in Toronto where he functions as Imam. He travels internationally to represent Islam in public lectures and interfaith dialogues. He explains Islam on a weekly television program called "Let the Quran Speak. Representing the Christian side was Mr. Jay Smith, a Ph.D. candidate in Islamic studies at Brunel University in London. He has participated in many debates that have included distinguished opponents such as Benazir Bhuto, the former Prime Minister of Pakistan. The Topic of Debate: Who is the true Jesus? Shabir Ally (www.Shabirally.com) vs. Jay Smith (www.debate.org.uk) (Robert Ferst Center for the Arts at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, Georgia, USA) 


Not that " Christians" are innocent of spilling blood . ( but Jesus did talk about the " turn the other cheek" And do GOOD to your enemies.. ) I don't remember him promote the killing of " infidels' or.. " Pagans" ----- And I would guess to say.. Just because a war progresses out of a supposed Christian nation.. - it doesn't mean they are following the teachings of Christ ( Nazi's Were NOT Christians.. they were a cult of power hungry beasts ! - Just check out the Swastika ! ) Christians do not threaten or Actually ( presently - Maybe they did during the inquisition... More research! ) carry out the threat of killing those who convert to another religion. " We" try to use reason , persuasion, and prayer.. ( some article on " Jihad" mass Murder: ) These figures are a rough estimate of the death of non-Muslims by the political act of jihad.


Thomas Sowell [Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994, p. 188] estimates that 11 million slaves were shipped across the Atlantic and 14 million were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and the Middle East. For every slave captured many others died. Estimates of this collateral damage vary. The renowned missionary David Livingstone estimated that for every slave who reached a plantation, five others were killed in the initial raid or died of illness and privation on the forced march.[Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions, David Livingstone, p. 62, 1888] Those who were left behind were the very young, the weak, the sick and the old. These soon died since the main providers had been killed or enslaved. So, for 25 million slaves delivered to the market, we have an estimated death of about 120 million people. Islam ran the wholesale slave trade in Africa.

120 million Africans


The number of Christians martyred by Islam is 9 million [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-10] . A rough estimate by Raphael Moore in History of Asia Minor is that another 50 million died in wars by jihad. So counting the million African Christians killed in the 20th century we have:

60 million Christians


Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the “funeral pyre of the Hindus.”

80 million Hindus


Buddhists do not keep up with the history of war. Keep in mind that in jihad only Christians and Jews were allowed to survive as dhimmis (servants to Islam); everyone else had to convert or die. Jihad killed the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in India. The total is roughly 10 million. [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-1.]

10 million Buddhists


Oddly enough there were not enough Jews killed in jihad to significantly affect the totals of the Great Annihilation. The jihad in Arabia was 100 percent effective, but the numbers were in the thousands, not millions. After that, the Jews submitted and became the dhimmis (servants and second class citizens) of Islam and did not have geographic political power.

This gives a rough estimate of 270 million killed by jihad.
By Billybob163 last year
- I'm just starting to research this. but apparently ( and I know it's " off subject" but Wouldn't it be that a true prophet of God. Would not " consummate" a marriage with a 9 year old ? -- By Ali Sina http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm
PS; Don't Kill him! :)
The thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people. It is difficult to accept that the Holy Prophet married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Some Muslims claim that it was Abu Bakr who approached Muhammad asking him to marry his daughter. This is of course not true and here is the proof.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
By Billybob163 last year
These people are STILL seeing jesus. ( well Some of them! ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqXQ91GIpM
By Billybob163 last year
and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. And he said to them, “What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad. Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, and chow our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive.
By Billybob163 last year